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View Full Version : Debating a putz Cubs fan and Brewer fan about the Sox


soxfan123
10-03-2005, 01:36 PM
Ok, I need your undivided and also UNBIASED opinion on the following situation.

I had a heated discussion with a couple buddies of mine today over the lunch table, and of course the argument was who would win the series of Sox vs. Sox. I, obviously, argue for our guys, the gray and black. I was against three other guys who are Cubs and Brewers fans arguing for the Red Sox.

My argument:
-The Sox have the best pitching in the league all around. Solid Bullpen, solid starting. No argument there. All of our starters have looked great the last time out and Contreras is the best in the league right now.
-Podsednik looks to be back to form. Though he is not as explosive as he was in the start of the season, he looks good.
-We have won 8 of our last 10. Forget about August and September, we look good NOW.
-In playoff baseball, the better defense will most likely prevail in high-pressured situations.

Their Argument:
-No one can stop the duo of Ramirez and Ortiz. Any starting pitching will fall to them in a 5 or 7 game series.
-The Red Sox have experience. No argument there.
-They had a better second half with more momentum going into the playoffs.
-Scotty Po is the only reason we were dominant before and he is not at the Scotty Po we know right now. Without his full level of health, the White Sox are a futile team.
-The White Sox are from Chicago, the hell hole of October baseball.
-They all agreed that their predictions were similar to ESPN and acknowledge that ESPN is full of crap, though their arguments still stand with the Red Sox.
-Buehrle, Garland and Garcia are all just not as good as they need to be in the second half to shut their offense down.

I look at their argument and think that it is a biased, scared one that doesn't want to see our Sox win. Any thoughts?

chitownhawkfan
10-03-2005, 01:41 PM
Two words pitching and defense

Unregistered
10-03-2005, 01:48 PM
If Ozzie is smart enough not to let Ramirez or Ortiz beat us, the series is ours. It helps that we play well away from home and the Red Sox are only 41-40 on the road.

Iwritecode
10-03-2005, 01:49 PM
It's a complete crapshoot right now. There are positives and negatives for each team.

It's just a matter of whether our dominant starting pitching can contain their powerful offense and our "score just enough to win" offense can take advantage of their weak pitching staff...

Even the "experts" picks are nearly divided 50/50.

Ol' No. 2
10-03-2005, 01:52 PM
I was against three other guys who are Cubs and Brewers fans arguing for the Red Sox. I've deleted all the irrelevant stuff.

Jjav829
10-03-2005, 01:59 PM
I look at their argument and think that it is a biased, scared one that doesn't want to see our Sox win. Any thoughts?

And they look at your argument and think it is a biased, scared one that doesn't want to see the Sox lose.

The bottom line is no one knows who will win. You can argue it all you want and you can rip everyone who doesn't think the Sox will win, but no one knows how this will all play out. There are arguments to be made for both sides having a chance. The Red Sox have better hitting and more experience. We have better pitching and defense. Which one will show up and perform better? We'll find out starting at 3:09 tomorrow.

slobes
10-03-2005, 02:12 PM
I saw something in the Cubune today that Clement is 0-3 with a 5. something ERA in his last 5 starts. If Contreras pitches the way he has been lately, there is no reason we shouldn't be able to take game 1, which hopefully propel us towards a series victory.

maurice
10-03-2005, 02:18 PM
Repeat after me: The Red Cubs Have No Pitching.

The "momentum" argument is dumb. They were in 1st place in their division for a long time and then fell apart down the stretch, barely winning the Wild Card with lots of help from the Real Sox. WE are the team with momentum. 99 wins. Best record in the league wire-to-wire. Hot pitching staff and a couple of hot bats. 5-game winning streak, including "surprise" sweep over the Jndjans.

jdm2662
10-03-2005, 02:23 PM
Both teams have holes. The White Sox pitching is much better, but the Red Sox offense scores alot more runs. If the White Sox pitching holds up, they will win the series. If the series turns into a slugfest, then the Red Sox will probably win. However, anything that happened in the regular season is moot point now. It's a brand new season. It all matters on who's hot. Florida rode with Josh Beckett in 2003. He was the hottest pitcher down the stretch. Jack Morris was hot in '91, and the Twins won the series mainly because of him (and that damn garbage bag of a dome they play in, but Morris did his part). Contreas is one of the hottest pitchers in baseball. We will see if it continues.

DaleJRFan
10-03-2005, 02:23 PM
don't forget that over his career, Paul Konerko owns the Red Sox, something no one is talking about. PK will be huge in the series if the Sox can get guys on base in front of him.

Oh yea, and the RedCubs have NO pitching. Great pitching beats great offense. Coupled with excellent defense and small ball, the RedCubs don't stand a chance.

samram
10-03-2005, 02:26 PM
It seems to me that a lot of people who are looking at the Red Sox as the favorite in this series are completely dismissing the fact that they were World Champs last year because they had three very good starting pitchers who got hot for 3 weeks, and a closer who was lights out. I don't see that capability this year. Their offense is still championship caliber, but pitching staffs like theirs don't win championships.

Fuller_Schettman
10-03-2005, 02:29 PM
Good pitching beats good hitting.


And vice versa...

peeonwrigley
10-03-2005, 02:30 PM
don't forget that over his career, Paul Konerko owns the Red Sox, something no one is talking about. PK will be huge in the series if the Sox can get guys on base in front of him.

Oh yea, and the RedCubs have NO pitching. Great pitching beats great offense. Coupled with excellent defense and small ball, the RedCubs don't stand a chance.

Just like we don't want to let Ortiz and Manny beat us, the Red Cubs will make damn sure Konerko does not beat them. I would not be surprised to see Paulie walk twice a game in the series.

credefan24
10-03-2005, 02:33 PM
And we must turn those walks into runs. That's key to this series, and the entire post-season.

maurice
10-03-2005, 02:34 PM
Team ERA:
- Sox = 3.63 (2nd in the AL)
- Red Cubs = 4.76 (11th out of 14 teams)

Starter's ERA:
- Sox = 3.76 (2nd)
- Red Cubs = 4.58 (8th)

Bullpen ERA:
- Sox = 3.26 (3rd)
- Red Cubs = 5.19 (last)

Other relevant facts:
- Sox #5 starter = 4.21 ERA.
- Sox 1-4 each have an ERA under 4.
- Sox pen = 4 guys with an ERA under 3.
- Red Cubs "ace" = 5.69 ERA.
- Every single Red Cubs starter has an ERA over 4.
- Red Cubs' pen = 1 good pitcher (Timlin), 1 decent situational lefty (Myers), 1 exceptionally mediocre pitcher (Bradford), and . . . that's it (their best reliever is done for the season).

Ol' No. 2
10-03-2005, 03:02 PM
I saw something in the Cubune today that Clement is 0-3 with a 5. something ERA in his last 5 starts. If Contreras pitches the way he has been lately, there is no reason we shouldn't be able to take game 1, which hopefully propel us towards a series victory.Clement is a notorious first-half pitcher. He needs 6-7 strikeouts to have a chance to win. He hasn't managed more than 6 since before the A/S break, and he managed 6 only once. He hasn't had more than 4 since mid-August. Of all the Red Sox starters, Clement is the one I feel most confident against.

PatK
10-03-2005, 03:11 PM
The "momentum" argument is dumb. They were in 1st place in their division for a long time and then fell apart down the stretch, barely winning the Wild Card with lots of help from the Real Sox. WE are the team with momentum. 99 wins. Best record in the league wire-to-wire. Hot pitching staff and a couple of hot bats. 5-game winning streak, including "surprise" sweep over the Jndjans.

I agree, the whole "momentum" thing is done.

But if you look, the Red Sox limped their way in, while the Sox fought their way in, winning 8 of 11.

Plus, they are way more used to the tight, low run games.

Last time I checked, arms>bats.

CaptainBallz
10-03-2005, 03:21 PM
Good pitching beats good hitting.


And vice versa...

" I see," said the blind man.

The Critic
10-03-2005, 04:06 PM
Even the "experts" picks are nearly divided 50/50.

Including Gammons, who picked the White Sox to win the ALDS on espn.com and then picked the Red Sox to win on Dan Patrick's show.
:rolleyes: :redneck

fquaye149
10-03-2005, 04:16 PM
Do you want the bottom line?

Our starting pitching is completely superior to theirs.
Their hitting is completely superior to ours.
We probably have better defense and a better bullpen.

The fact is, this series will come down to how well our starters pitch, if our hitters can get anything going, and how well Boston's big 2 mashers fare. Bottom line.

Because this is baseball, we could see lights out pitching, or get shelled. Three games are over just like that.

162 games into the season and talk REMAINS cheap.

MarySwiss
10-03-2005, 04:28 PM
Including Gammons, who picked the White Sox to win the ALDS on espn.com and then picked the Red Sox to win on Dan Patrick's show.
:rolleyes: :redneck

So in other words, he's right. :cool:

PennStater98r
10-03-2005, 04:39 PM
Here's another thought to think about. The BoSox are probably a bit discouraged by losing the division in the last week of baseball - as opposed to the good guys who held on to the division and knocked out the #1 contender and hottest team since the All Star break from the post season scene... I'd say that there's some confidence on the side of the White Sox.