PDA

View Full Version : According to Score ALDS ROSTER THREAD!


SoxxoS
10-03-2005, 10:48 AM
El Duque, Willie Harris on...McCarthy off ALDS roster.

:angry:

mdep524
10-03-2005, 10:49 AM
El Duque, Willie Harris on...McCarthy off ALDS roster.

:angry: <Sigh> :(:

Whitesox4ever
10-03-2005, 10:50 AM
B Mac wouldnt be able to pitch in this series until fri at the earliest. So im ok with the decision

CHISOXFAN13
10-03-2005, 10:51 AM
McCarthy wouldn't be able to pitch in 40 percent of potential games in this series.

It's really a no-brainer, IMO.

Some will be upset by this move, but it's better to have a full bullpen for the entire series.

SoxFan76
10-03-2005, 10:51 AM
I saw it comin. You can't deny the Duke's playoff numbers. He's well rested now, and he's been great in relief.

Cat Thief
10-03-2005, 10:52 AM
McCarthy will be back for the ALCS. It's all good.

SOX ADDICT '73
10-03-2005, 10:54 AM
McCarthy wouldn't be able to pitch in 40 percent of potential games in this series.

It's really a no-brainer, IMO.

Some will be upset by this move, but it's better to have a full bullpen for the entire series.
Makes sense, as long as we don't have to see Vizcaino in a close game this whole series. Then they can reshuffle and add McCarthy for the ALCS roster, can't they?

Kogs35
10-03-2005, 10:54 AM
Makes sense, as long as we don't have to see Vizcaino in a close game this whole series. Then they can reshuffle and add McCarthy for the ALCS roster, can't they?

yes they can

CHISOXFAN13
10-03-2005, 10:56 AM
Makes sense, as long as we don't have to see Vizcaino in a close game this whole series. Then they can reshuffle and add McCarthy for the ALCS roster, can't they?

Exactly. It's sure nice to have a number of options.

downstairs
10-03-2005, 10:56 AM
Hmmmmm...

I don't quite understand this. BMac doesn't have to be a starter. He would be available for an emergency in games 3,4, and/or 5.

If one of our starters in those games gave up a few runs in the first or second inning, yank him and put BMac in.... since he has the capability of going 6, 7, 8+ innings...

Luis can't do this. So why choose him over BMac?

Rocky Soprano
10-03-2005, 10:59 AM
If this series goes the full 5 games and we need a starter to step up, McCarthy would of been nice insurance to have.

Go SOX!

JRIG
10-03-2005, 11:00 AM
I saw it comin. You can't deny the Duke's playoff numbers. He's well rested now, and he's been great in relief.

Sure you can, since those playoff numbers came before the reconstructive arm surgery that sidelined him for the better half of two years. He was less than impressive last year for the Yanks in the ALCS.

That said, with McCarthy out until probably Game 3 at the earliest, it's more than likely the right move to make.

Tekijawa
10-03-2005, 11:03 AM
I think you can chalk this up to earning your stripes... good Decision Ozzie and if Willie can play like he has been he'll be a great Back Up Infielder... then everything will be reset for round two! I'm also sure that this will be a 4 man rotation for the rest of the year... and will keep Brandon in starter mode! He'll get plenty more opportunities to pitch in the playoffs!

SoxxoS
10-03-2005, 11:05 AM
I thought at first- "Well, we can just add him on the ALCS roster"

Thats not going to happen, though. IF we make it to round 2, then the starters would have done a good job, and if Buehrle/Garland/Garcia or Contreras have a bad start, they aren't going to get benched for McCarthy.

McCarthy is one of the best 11 pitchers on this team...you can make a case for top 4...they should find a spot for him.

Randar68
10-03-2005, 11:06 AM
If this series goes the full 5 games and we need a starter to step up, McCarthy would of been nice insurance to have.

Go SOX!

Jose-Mark-Jon-Freddy-Jose...

Why would we have needed Brandon? Even still, Jose could go on 3 days rest the way he recovers and that puts Mark in Game 5...

If you keep McCarthy and he's not starting, he'd be an emergency long-relief guy, and El Duque provides you far more experience in a similar role.

Whitesox4ever
10-03-2005, 11:07 AM
when the Sox make it to the next round im sure B Mac will be on the active roster..

Unregistered
10-03-2005, 11:08 AM
I think you can chalk this up to earning your stripes... good Decision Ozzie and if Willie can play like he has been he'll be a great Back Up Infielder... then everything will be reset for round two! I agree: Willie had a great series this weekend - he could prove to be valuable off the bench against the Red Sox.

Rocky Soprano
10-03-2005, 11:10 AM
Jose-Mark-Jon-Freddy-Jose...

Why would we have needed Brandon? Even still, Jose could go on 3 days rest the way he recovers and that puts Mark in Game 5...

If you keep McCarthy and he's not starting, he'd be an emergency long-relief guy, and El Duque provides you far more experience in a similar role.

I guess you are right.

McCarthy has been great and I just would of liked to seen him available.

kevingrt
10-03-2005, 11:11 AM
Jose-Mark-Jon-Freddy-Jose...

Why would we have needed Brandon? Even still, Jose could go on 3 days rest the way he recovers and that puts Mark in Game 5...

If you keep McCarthy and he's not starting, he'd be an emergency long-relief guy, and El Duque provides you far more experience in a similar role.

I agree with you here. El Duque has also shown he can pitch in relief in relatively big siutations over this weekend. Experience usually rules in the playoffs minus kids like K-Rod and hopefully B. Jenks this year.

SoxxoS
10-03-2005, 11:15 AM
El Duque blows one game...and we advance...I just hope BMAC would be added.

fquaye149
10-03-2005, 11:17 AM
Look - I love McCarthy and I wish he could have been a part of this playoffs.

However, when you have a choice between putting a rookie starting pitcher in a relief role and keeping the reliever who has been effective, particularly towards the end of the year, you have to keep the veteran. I'm sorry. I'd rather not see VIZ or McCarthy in a tight spot, however if I had to see one of them, I'd rather see the guy with more major league experience.

Brandon's had a great end of the year, but keep in mind he didn't have a great beginning of the year. I believe he's more likely to produce like his end of the year stats, but why take a chance on a young kid who, unlike Jenks, has not really been put in the fire yet. Yes he beat Boston, but that was their first time ever seeing him. I would have supported Ozzie whether he kept McCarthy or kept Viz...but realistically I feel like this was the smarter move.

As for keeping Willie - right on!!!

SoxxoS
10-03-2005, 11:28 AM
Brandon's had a great end of the year, but keep in mind he didn't have a great beginning of the year. I believe he's more likely to produce like his end of the year stats, but why take a chance on a young kid who, unlike Jenks, has not really been put in the fire yet. Yes he beat Boston, but that was their first time ever seeing him. I would have supported Ozzie whether he kept McCarthy or kept Viz...but realistically I feel like this was the smarter move.



Something needs to be said for the hot hand...ask the Marlins about Josh Beckett...

Unregistered
10-03-2005, 11:30 AM
Brandon's had a great end of the year, but keep in mind he didn't have a great beginning of the year. I believe he's more likely to produce like his end of the year stats, but why take a chance on a young kid who, unlike Jenks, has not really been put in the fire yet. Yes he beat Boston, but that was their first time ever seeing him. Don't forget the fact that he's been pretty much lights out since returning from AAA with a new arm angle. The only time he looked anything close to how he was this last month was in Spring Training.

BainesHOF
10-03-2005, 11:36 AM
Blah, blah, blah. McCarthy is one of our best pitchers and should be on the roster. If the fact that he pitched too much Sunday is what kept him off, then he shouldn't have pitched so much Sunday. That game was meaningless to us.

Blum is a bum. He should have been left off the roster in favor of Gload, who would give us a decent pinch-hitting option against a tough righty.

spongyfungy
10-03-2005, 11:54 AM
If we were short on good starters Bmac would be on. I'm sure Boston is happy that he's left off but they have our other starters to worry about.

El Duque has been tried out as the reliever for our team and he's been great. Plus he has the fresh arm (before Cle, last pitched sep 18). And you can't forget the playoff exp, and his performance in Oct. Who knows how the rookie Bmac would perform in a playoff atmosphere.

DaleJRFan
10-03-2005, 11:54 AM
I agree: Willie had a great series this weekend - he could prove to be valuable off the bench against the Red Sox.

Willie has played OUTSTANDING defense since he has been called up. And, he's fast as hell. Even if he isn't the best base stealer, he's a very nice player to have on the bench to come in a late inning situation as a pinch runner. Plus he walks a lot and can bunt if necessary. I like this move...

TaylorStSox
10-03-2005, 11:58 AM
Let's be honest here. BMac has been really fortunate to only give up a couple of runs in his last 2 starts. He's been hit pretty hard both times.

El Duque's here for this reason. He's a "big game" pitcher.

Willie Harris is on the roster for defense and speed. We're going to have to run on Boston every time we get the chance. They're not a very good defensive team. We need to keep pressure on them whenever possible.

Tragg
10-03-2005, 12:06 PM
I'm glad El D is on the roster.

Corlose 15
10-03-2005, 12:09 PM
The only thing I'm curious about here is how El Duque can adjust to coming out of the bullpen. He has a pretty lenghty warmup routine I believe and hopefully he can adjust to short relief.

I think Harris can be very valuable as a late inning pinch runner. Whenever I think of Willie I think of Dave Roberts in last years ALCS.

Chisox003
10-03-2005, 12:09 PM
I'm glad El D is on the roster.
No doubt about it, this was a good decision.

Mac would be unavailable to pitch anyway, and I honestly wouldnt be surprised if El Duque closed out a game later in the series...

Maybe BMac will make the ALCS roster when we get there, but for now I like this move

lpneck
10-03-2005, 12:16 PM
Wow...

I hate to second guess Ozzie because of the number of times that he has done something this year that has left me scratching my head and in the end it has worked out, but I just don't get this at all...

BainesHOF hit it right on the head. Is McCarthy one of our best 11 pitchers? If he is, he should be on the roster. It's that simple. If game 3 goes into the 13th inning on Friday, and your choices are to bring in Marte, Vizcaino, or McCarthy, which one do you want? I don't want to hear about all of the "future" playoff starts McCarthy is going to get...(I seem to remember hearing two years ago about all the "future" playoff starts Wood and Prior were going to get...) He doesn't need to be a starter to help this team in the playoffs.

Putting Blum on the team over Gload is just dumb, and it is a typical move of KW staying with a guy for too long that he went out and got. (Todd Ritchie, anyone?)

What situation is Blum going to be used? Backup infielder on the left side? Ozuna's got that. 2b? Willie Harris (Ozuna could even be used here.) Pinch hitter? Good Lord I hope not...

The only situation that makes any sense if to use him as a replacement at 1st base if Willie Harris has pinch run for Konerko. And if that's the case, why in the world wouldn't you want Gload batting in the cleanup spot over Blum if the game ends up in extra innings?

I really, really hope this decision does not cost us a game. It was a very important one that they got wrong.

Chisox003
10-03-2005, 12:18 PM
Wow...

I hate to second guess Ozzie because of the number of times that he has done something this year that has left me scratching my head and in the end it has worked out, but I just don't get this at all...

BainesHOF hit it right on the head. Is McCarthy one of our best 11 pitchers? If he is, he should be on the roster. It's that simple. If game 3 goes into the 13th inning on Friday, and your choices are to bring in Marte, Vizcaino, or McCarthy, which one do you want? I don't want to hear about all of the "future" playoff starts McCarthy is going to get...(I seem to remember hearing two years ago about all the "future" playoff starts Wood and Prior were going to get...) He doesn't need to be a starter to help this team in the playoffs.

Putting Blum on the team over Gload is just dumb, and it is a typical move of KW staying with a guy for too long that he went out and got. (Todd Ritchie, anyone?)

What situation is Blum going to be used? Backup infielder on the left side? Ozuna's got that. 2b? Willie Harris (Ozuna could even be used here.) Pinch hitter? Good Lord I hope not...

The only situation that makes any sense if to use him as a replacement at 1st base if Willie Harris has pinch run for Konerko. And if that's the case, why in the world wouldn't you want Gload batting in the cleanup spot over Blum if the game ends up in extra innings?

I really, really hope this decision does not cost us a game. It was a very important one that they got wrong.
Gload over a guy that can play every infield position?

Does Gload's bat outweigh the importance of Blum's versatility by that much?

Hell no, it had to be Blum

mike squires
10-03-2005, 12:20 PM
Makes sense, as long as we don't have to see Vizcaino in a close game this whole series. Then they can reshuffle and add McCarthy for the ALCS roster, can't they?

I have a feeling all these games will be close. There's a strong chance we'll have to see Vizcaino at some point.

I see Ozzie's rationale on this decision. McCarthy earned it but El Duque will be better out of the pen, IMO.

TaylorStSox
10-03-2005, 12:22 PM
I was hoping most of you guys would be pissed at Ozzie. You've been wrong about his moves all season. It's a superstitious thing. I'm not even superstitious, but this is the playoffs. :redneck

Foulke You
10-03-2005, 12:29 PM
Gload over a guy that can play every infield position?

Does Gload's bat outweigh the importance of Blum's versatility by that much?

Hell no, it had to be Blum
I believe Gload's bat does outweight Blum's defensive versatility. As Ipnek pointed out, all the other infield positions are covered (Pablo SS/3B), Willie (2B/SS), and Gload could've spotted Paulie at 1B. This fact renders Blum's versatility less important. It's not like we're left without an infield position covered.

When you have a team that struggles to score runs at times like the Sox, it is quite bad that one of our only options for a left handed bat off the bench is Geoff Blum who is hitting a robust .185.

hawkjt
10-03-2005, 12:31 PM
Pretty much a no-brainer in the end IMO. Blum is a switch-hitter that could cause Boston to think twice about their relief decisions. Also his defensive versititlity is useful.

Willie can also help in multiple ways.

And Vizzy has got good numbers the last half and is an experienced reliever while El Duque has really looked strong out of the bullpen. He now gives us another righty that could reduce Cliffs exposure which is important with Cliff's velocity down. I really think El Duque could be a huge key to our bullpen and the series. He was at 93 mph at times with all that movement. Love his moxie and fearlessness in big games.

B-Mac could be added in the second round but unless one of our Big 4 gets injured or blows up there will be no room. We have gone without a long reliever all season so with Duke I feel comfortable.

OEO Magglio
10-03-2005, 12:32 PM
Sure you can, since those playoff numbers came before the reconstructive arm surgery that sidelined him for the better half of two years. He was less than impressive last year for the Yanks in the ALCS.

That said, with McCarthy out until probably Game 3 at the earliest, it's more than likely the right move to make.
Yes, but Mccarthy is so much better then the Duke and Viz it's not even funny, we could have had el duque pitch on sunday and Brandon would have been ready to go for the playoffs, that's why this move really ticks me off. Very glad to see willie on the roster as he's a very valuable piece.

CHISOXFAN13
10-03-2005, 12:36 PM
I believe Gload's bat does outweight Blum's defensive versatility. As Ipnek pointed out, all the other infield positions are covered (Pablo SS/3B), Willie (2B/SS), and Gload could've spotted Paulie at 1B. This fact renders Blum's versatility less important. It's not like we're left without an infield position covered.

When you have a team that struggles to score runs at times like the Sox, it is quite bad that one of our only options for a left handed bat off the bench is Geoff Blum who is hitting a robust .185.

I still fail to realize why many on this site are infatuated with Ross Gload. I think it's funny when someone criticizes a player hitting .185, when the player many are clamoring to take his spot is hitting an even more robust .167.

Was I happy with Gload's two-RBI double Friday? Hell yes. But let's not forget he drew the collar in five previous at-bats.

Let's be honest here. Neither Gload or Blum is going to pinch hit for anyone in this lineup in a short series. Blum plays four positions which makes him more valuable than a guy who can play one.

If something were to happen to Uribe, I'd feel much more comfortable with Blum out there than Ozuna.

Fake Chet Lemon
10-03-2005, 12:45 PM
Great calls. I love McCarthy, but the team has enough starters. El Duque coming out of the pen in October, it'll give the opposition something to think about. And if Jenks gets any rookie jitters Hernandez may be the guy to relieve him. Although I have little use for Blum, his flexibility is a great asset as we start pinch hitting and pinch running more late in games. Good decisions.

Vince
10-03-2005, 01:12 PM
I think it was a tossup between El D and BMac on pure ability -- when you take into account BMac won't be available until Game 3, I think El Duque is the logical choice. He did look good coming out of the bullpen this series, and it looks like his velocity is up. I thought BMac was quite a bit wild Sunday, and the complete lack of plate discipline of the Indians really helped him out. The Red Sox are a much more patient team at the plate. I realize McCarthy beat the BoSox earlier in the month, but if past performances were a true indication of the future, we'd be screwed putting Contreras up for Game 1! But I don't think anyone here feels that way, given the way Contreras is pitching.

A_ROW33
10-03-2005, 01:16 PM
I have a feeling Willie will start game 3 vs. Wakefield, we benched Iguchi against him earlier, as much as I like Iguchi, I don't want to see him face a major league knuckleballer for the first time in the first round of the playoffs.

lpneck
10-03-2005, 01:16 PM
Let me ask again... let's say game 3 or game 4 goes into extra innings and we are down to a very thin bullpen. Boston is coming to bat in the bottom of the 12th and you have the choice of bringing in McCarthy, Vizcaino, or Marte. Who would you choose?

Let's say we pinch run for Konerko in the top of the ninth of a tie game, and then we don't score. Who do you want batting cleanup when the lineup turns over in the 11th inning? Pods leads off with a single, Iguchi bunts him to 2nd, and Rowand flies out to right moving Pods to 3rd. Runner on third, two outs, and now you have... Geoff Blum at the plate and we're hoping for a passed ball. I understand that Ross Gload is not anyone's #1 choice to be batting here, but he is a BETTER choice over Blum.

I know that some of you are saying, "well what's the likelihood of those scenarios?" But that's the whole point... games are won or lost on being prepared when those situations come up. I mean, I hope like heck that Contreras, Buerhle, and Garcia all throw complete game 2-hitters, too, and then all of this is irrelevant. But you better have some thoughts about how you are going to win games if things don't pan out exactly as planned.

So for those of you that think this is a good move... please tell me what specific situation do you see Vizcaino and Blum HELPING this team win a playoff game where McCarthy and Gload would not be capable of doing it?

MsSoxVixen22
10-03-2005, 01:42 PM
All I gotta say is I hope Marte or Viz don't cost us a game....Willie has gotten better, Ozuna's been playing better as of late.....Blum, he's been alittle bit better. I hope Ozzie/KW are making the right decision........

OEO Magglio
10-03-2005, 01:47 PM
El duque isn't the pitcher he was back when he was dominate in the playoffs and that's showed the last few times he's pitched in the post season, Orlando should have started sunday so Brandon would be ready to go come playoff time, right now it's not even close Bmac>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>El duque.

OEO Magglio
10-03-2005, 01:48 PM
I still fail to realize why many on this site are infatuated with Ross Gload. I think it's funny when someone criticizes a player hitting .185, when the player many are clamoring to take his spot is hitting an even more robust .167.

Was I happy with Gload's two-RBI double Friday? Hell yes. But let's not forget he drew the collar in five previous at-bats.

Let's be honest here. Neither Gload or Blum is going to pinch hit for anyone in this lineup in a short series. Blum plays four positions which makes him more valuable than a guy who can play one.

If something were to happen to Uribe, I'd feel much more comfortable with Blum out there than Ozuna.
Ross Gload has hit everywhere he's been including the major leagues last year, you're going to judge the guy on 40 ab's this season??? Gload can hit, period.

JorgeFabregas
10-03-2005, 01:52 PM
Where does the fact that McCarthy pitched a shutout against the BoSox come into this equation?

wdelaney72
10-03-2005, 02:07 PM
El duque makes it before Brandon. Period. I don't care how much rest he hasn't had, Brandon makes the roster before Vizcaino.

Blum is a tough call. I'd personally rather have Gload's bat, just for the fact that there are plenty of other defensive infield replacements. But, Ozzie's the manager and I'm not. Given the fact that this team won 99 games, I'll leave that as a good thing.

Foulke You
10-03-2005, 02:16 PM
I still fail to realize why many on this site are infatuated with Ross Gload. I think it's funny when someone criticizes a player hitting .185, when the player many are clamoring to take his spot is hitting an even more robust .167.

Was I happy with Gload's two-RBI double Friday? Hell yes. But let's not forget he drew the collar in five previous at-bats.

Let's be honest here. Neither Gload or Blum is going to pinch hit for anyone in this lineup in a short series. Blum plays four positions which makes him more valuable than a guy who can play one.

If something were to happen to Uribe, I'd feel much more comfortable with Blum out there than Ozuna.
It is not an infatuation with Gload, it is what I've seen him do as a hitter with my own eyes. People seem to forget the guy hit .321 coming off the bench as a pinch hitter with 7HRs and 44RBIs in 2004. That is fantastic offensive production for a pinch hitter/bench player. The .167 you pointed out is from a microscopic sample size from the 2005 season where half of those ABs, the guy was hurt. Gload is also a .284 hitter overall in his career, has pop in his bat, and hits left handed, and plays a pretty solid first base. I'd feel a lot more confident with Gload coming through with a big RBI off the bench than Blum.

What if Paulie needs to be pinch run for in a late inning situation and we fail to score him? Now you're stuck with the .188 hitting Blum in the cleanup spot if the game goes into extras because he is the only one who can play 1st. Also, people like to point out that Blum is a switch hitter, but I ask you, what good is being a switch hitter if he is equally crappy from both sides of the plate?

I'm not saying it is the end of the world that Blum is on the roster, I just think the extra offense of Gload would have made more sense on a team that often times struggles to scratch a run across the plate. Just my .02

Sad
10-03-2005, 02:29 PM
El duque makes it before Brandon. Period. I don't care how much rest he hasn't had, Brandon makes the roster before Vizcaino.

I was thinking the same thing re: Vizcaino... he's been awful...

SouthSide_HitMen
10-03-2005, 02:32 PM
According to the Score Mike Murphy, Mike North, Jessie Rodgers and others are professional broadcasters so I don't give any credence to what those idiots have to say. Bruce Levine is as accurate.

I see nothing on the White Sox website so I don't believe any rumors or innuendos on sports blab radio. My personal guess is McCarthy will be left off the first round roster based on the fact he is unavailable until Game 3. It is only a guess which is the extent of any debates or "news" on the Score.

JorgeFabregas
10-03-2005, 02:34 PM
McCarthy just said that he will be STARTING during the second series on the Score.

Ol' No. 2
10-03-2005, 02:35 PM
It is not an infatuation with Gload, it is what I've seen him do as a hitter with my own eyes. People seem to forget the guy hit .321 coming off the bench as a pinch hitter with 7HRs and 44RBIs in 2004. That is fantastic offensive production for a pinch hitter/bench player. The .167 you pointed out is from a microscopic sample size from the 2005 season where half of those ABs, the guy was hurt. Gload is also a .284 hitter overall in his career, has pop in his bat, and hits left handed, and plays a pretty solid first base. I'd feel a lot more confident with Gload coming through with a big RBI off the bench than Blum.

What if Paulie needs to be pinch run for in a late inning situation and we fail to score him? Now you're stuck with the .188 hitting Blum in the cleanup spot if the game goes into extras because he is the only one who can play 1st. Also, people like to point out that Blum is a switch hitter, but I ask you, what good is being a switch hitter if he is equally crappy from both sides of the plate?

I'm not saying it is the end of the world that Blum is on the roster, I just think the extra offense of Gload would have made more sense on a team that often times struggles to scratch a run across the plate. Just my .02It's because of the fact that Blum can play all IF positions that they can keep Harris and Ozuna on the roster. Ozzie can use these guys as pinch hitters for anyone without having to worry about having a defensive backup. Replace Blum with Gload and your choices become more restricted.

HotelWhiteSox
10-03-2005, 02:37 PM
Didn't Viz also get rocked by Boston? This confuses me. Reasoning on no McCarthy is that he wouldn't be able to be used to at least Game 3 since he threw a lot of pitches on Sunday, but then again, if Ozzie wanted BMac, he had control on how many pitches BMac would throw :dunno: so what's the deal?


Offman on the Score says he would expect BMac to be left off for the ALCS roster again unless an injury occurs or someone really gets rocked

Iwritecode
10-03-2005, 02:44 PM
Didn't we have this same argument in 2000 when Johnson (the lesser) was left off the post-season roster for the versatile Josh Paul?

:)

harwar
10-03-2005, 02:51 PM
The bullpen is all-important in the playoffs.I think that Brandon makes the cut if hes' a lefty.Oh,well see how it all plays out.
You can't believe what you hear on the score most of the time,but they got the roster right.Its amazing how they have been ripping Ozzie and the White Sox all afternoon.You'd think they would get behind them.

OEO Magglio
10-03-2005, 02:54 PM
I think that Brandon makes the cut if hes' a lefty
Which is so ridiculous considering Damaso can't get a lefty out to save his life and well..Brandon can get lefties out. The thing that angers me is that your no doubt correct, if Brandon threw with his left arm he's on the playoff roster, stupid.

fquaye149
10-03-2005, 03:24 PM
Something needs to be said for the hot hand...ask the Marlins about Josh Beckett...

Brandon McCarthy's no Josh Beckett. I have nightmares of Manny just barc-a-lounging on that low 90 fastball.

fquaye149
10-03-2005, 03:31 PM
So for those of you that think this is a good move... please tell me what specific situation do you see Vizcaino and Blum HELPING this team win a playoff game where McCarthy and Gload would not be capable of doing it?

For Vizcaino over McCarthy? How about any relief situation with the game on the line. Why do I like Viz over McCarthy in that situation? Because Vizcaino's ACTUALLY PITCHED IN THAT SITUATION BEFORE. How are you going to take a 22 year old who has never come out of the bullpen and tell him he has to do it in a pressure situation in the ****ing playoffs for God's sake?

It's not to say he couldn't do it...but would you bet your trust fund on it? I sure wouldn't. Look - if we were debating a spot start b/t El Duque and McCarthy I can see this conversation. Even so I'd give the nod to Duque just because 22 is awful young to get the weight of a season on your shoulders. But we're talking about the bullpen - a role that it takes even pretty good starting pitchers (Schilling) a long time to get used to. Why do you assume McCarthy would be fine.

As for Blum over Gload? Well how about this: tie game in the third game at Boston, 9th inning, Ozuna pinch hit for AJ against a lefty out of the pen. Willie pinch ran for Crede. We score a run on a Uribe sac fly. We go into the bottom of the 9th up 1-0. Ozuna is unavailable to play third base. Willie either stays at second or comes out of the game for Crede. Who do we put at third base?

And tell me - what is more likely - this, or needing a lefty bat off the bench who hasn't had more than 30 PA's all year?

Chez
10-03-2005, 03:37 PM
Gload's 2004 numbers were fueled by a terrific September. Much of that success in September was against other team's call-ups. Gload has proven he can hit AAA pitching -- and it's what he largely did in September 2004. I'll take Blum's versatility.

StockdaleForVeep
10-03-2005, 03:47 PM
Makes sense, as long as we don't have to see Vizcaino in a close game this whole series. Then they can reshuffle and add McCarthy for the ALCS roster, can't they?

You people need to get off of Viz's back, he started off atrocious yes but he really settled down and pitched well. 3.73 era is not bad, its better than marte and he has most of the innings pitched on this team as a reliever

JUribe1989
10-03-2005, 03:48 PM
El Duque looked very sharp out of the bullpen against Cleveland. McCarthy most likely would not have pitche anyways. We need Harris as a back-up to Iguchi. I have no problems with the decision.

sox230
10-03-2005, 04:06 PM
My cousin who works for the Cubune just told me McCarthy was left off the roster and viscaino and el duque both made it. If this is correct this is the stupidest move ever. I don't care if you have been in the big leagues all year long or just half a year. If this is Ozzie's way to reward the veterans, maybe he should listen to Herm Edwards (whose team sucks, but nonetheless) who said, "You play to win the game." not to reward veterans who offer nothing.

CLR01
10-03-2005, 04:08 PM
WOW! Your cousin must have one hell of a source. We didn't know that. :rolleyes:

DaleJRFan
10-03-2005, 04:09 PM
I was listening to Mike Murphy at lunch and I almost puked at all of the Sox fans calling calling for Ozzies head for leaving BMac off of the ALDS roster. The guy threw five innings yesterday abnd wouldn't be able to pitch again for four days, so he would have been useless. Good move by Ozzie to go with the guys who have experience. McCarthy has pitched in what, 8 major league games? El Duque was signed for THIS PURPOSE, the post season.

lpneck
10-03-2005, 04:16 PM
For Vizcaino over McCarthy? How about any relief situation with the game on the line. Why do I like Viz over McCarthy in that situation? Because Vizcaino's ACTUALLY PITCHED IN THAT SITUATION BEFORE. How are you going to take a 22 year old who has never come out of the bullpen and tell him he has to do it in a pressure situation in the ****ing playoffs for God's sake?

If we are in any situation with a game on the line, Marte is the only pitcher on the staff I have less confidence in than Vizcaino. You would take a shaky at best Vizcaino over McCarthy, who shut out the Red Sox on 3 hits and 7 K's over 7 innings? Yikes.

As for Blum over Gload? Well how about this: tie game in the third game at Boston, 9th inning, Ozuna pinch hit for AJ against a lefty out of the pen. Willie pinch ran for Crede. We score a run on a Uribe sac fly. We go into the bottom of the 9th up 1-0. Ozuna is unavailable to play third base. Willie either stays at second or comes out of the game for Crede. Who do we put at third base?

Why wouldn't Ozuna stay in the game at 3rd and just put Widger in Crede's spot in the lineup? Or are you saying that Ozuna hit in the 8th and is now out of the game?

If that's the case, then I see this happening:

Manny Ramirez homers in the bottom of the ninth to tie the game, and we now have a lineup with Ozuna, Blum, and Widger in it. Now when Paulie gets a hit in the 10th, we can't run for him because there is no one left to play first base. So we will remain at 1-1 into the 13th, where we get beat because we have no one left in the bullpen except the left handed specialist Marte, who promptly gives up a 685 foot home run to David Ortiz, while McCarthy watches at home on TV.

Blum will not play 3B or SS in this series. He will, however, play 1B when we run for Konerko. And it is not going to be good if the game continues another 2 innings after that.

longshot7
10-03-2005, 04:18 PM
Agreed with post of these posts. McCarthy is not Mark Johnson.

fquaye149
10-03-2005, 04:20 PM
If we are in any situation with a game on the line, Marte is the only pitcher on the staff I have less confidence in than Vizcaino. You would take a shaky at best Vizcaino over McCarthy, who shut out the Red Sox on 3 hits and 7 K's over 7 innings? Yikes.

I repeat: BEING A RELIEVER IS NOT THE SAME AS BEING A STARTING PITCHER. Not only that, but your lack of confidence in Viz is rather unfounded. Consider if I said "I don't have confidence in McCarthy because he got rocked in Texas." I'm more interested in the more recent half of play, thank you.


Why wouldn't Ozuna stay in the game at 3rd and just put Widger in Crede's spot in the lineup? Or are you saying that Ozuna hit in the 8th and is now out of the game?

If that's the case, then I see this happening:

Manny Ramirez homers in the bottom of the ninth to tie the game, and we now have a lineup with Ozuna, Blum, and Widger in it. Now when Paulie gets a hit in the 10th, we can't run for him because there is no one left to play first base. So we will remain at 1-1 into the 13th, where we get beat because we have no one left in the bullpen except the left handed specialist Marte, who promptly gives up a 685 foot home run to David Ortiz, while McCarthy watches at home on TV.

Blum will not play 3B or SS in this series. He will, however, play 1B when we run for Konerko. And it is not going to be good if the game continues another 2 innings after that.

Fact is, Gload would not likely have been used for a defensive replacement. Blum will not likely be used as a pinch hitter. We had greater need of a defensive replacement than a pinch hitter...especially when you consider how little tune up time Gload has had throughout this season.

fquaye149
10-03-2005, 04:22 PM
"You play to win the game."

If only someone had told Ozzie that the goal of baseball was to win....

edit: as a matter of fact...maybe we should get Herm Edwards to call up Ozzie and give him a few tips on how to win.

hawkjt
10-03-2005, 04:22 PM
Since June 1 Vizzy has appearred in 46 game with 47 innings of work. He has allowed 3 inherited runners to score and has given up 12 earned runs for a 2.40 era. Now that is pretty darn solid in my book.

He also flourishes with working more rather than less so he could go three days in a row which I highly doubt B-Mac or El Duque could do. Or Cliff for that matter. We may run thru a ton of relievers in this series in late innings which is why Marte and vizzy made total sense.

BeviBall!
10-03-2005, 04:31 PM
Since June 1 Vizzy has appearred in 46 game with 47 innings of work. He has allowed 3 inherited runners to score and has given up 12 earned runs for a 2.40 era. Now that is pretty darn solid in my book.

Of course it was Viz who yielded the 590 foot blast to Manny in August. No sir... I don't like it.

FielderJones
10-03-2005, 04:36 PM
It's good to see all the Dark Cloud pessimism in this thread. It gives me confidence that Ozzie and Kenny made the right moves. :tongue:

Ol' No. 2
10-03-2005, 04:44 PM
Of course it was Viz who yielded the 590 foot blast to Manny in August. No sir... I don't like it.And Bobby Jenks got lit up by Tony Graffanino. Maybe he should be left off the roster, too.:rolleyes:

CHISOXFAN13
10-03-2005, 04:48 PM
Of course it was Viz who yielded the 590 foot blast to Manny in August. No sir... I don't like it.

Give any great hitter like Ramirez a second chance and that's the likely result. How convenient you left out the fact that Crede dropped a sure out on the previous pitch.

BeviBall!
10-03-2005, 04:48 PM
And Bobby Jenks got lit up by Tony Graffanino. Maybe he should be left off the roster, too.:rolleyes:

Yeah! That's the same thing!

McCarthy offers so much more than Viz. Say Garland or Buehrle give up 4 in the first inning, we could've gone to B Mac. Now, we're stuck with only El Duque, who has been great as a set up man. I don't like it.

BeviBall!
10-03-2005, 04:50 PM
Give any great hitter like Ramirez a second chance and that's the likely result. How convenient you left out the fact that Crede dropped a sure out on the previous pitch.

Extremely convenient, don't you think? Gimme a break... that pitch was an 84 MPH meatball. Pitchers sometimes have to pitch over errors... Viz did not. You want Vizcaino going against Manny again? Please.

ilsox7
10-03-2005, 04:51 PM
Yeah! That's the same thing!

McCarthy offers so much more than Viz. Say Garland or Buehrle give up 4 in the first inning, we could've gone to B Mac. Now, we're stuck with only El Duque, who has been great as a set up man. I don't like it.

Except that McCarthy won't even be available until Friday. So if MB gets rocked Wednesday, McCarthy wouldn't have even been an option. Whereas if the Sox are down 2-1 on Saturday and JG gets rocked, you have Contreras on short rest for a couple of innings, plus you empty the bullpen. As well as McCarthy has thrown, it was absolutely the right decision to leave him off the roster for the ALDS b/c he will not be available for 40% of the possible games.

BeviBall!
10-03-2005, 04:53 PM
Except that McCarthy won't even be available until Friday. So if MB gets rocked Wednesday, McCarthy wouldn't have even been an option. Whereas if the Sox are down 2-1 on Saturday and JG gets rocked, you have Contreras on short rest for a couple of innings, plus you empty the bullpen. As well as McCarthy has thrown, it was absolutely the right decision to leave him off the roster for the ALDS b/c he will not be available for 40% of the possible games.

This is a good point. Lets hope it doesn't come down to using Viz... then everybody wins.

ilsox7
10-03-2005, 04:55 PM
This is a good point. Lets hope it doesn't come down to using Viz... then everybody wins.

Given that we have Jenks, Hermy, Cotts and Cliff in the bullpen, if we see Viz for any extended period of time it is most likely as an innings eater in a game we are getting killed in. He has been much better as of late though and in the scheme of things, is not a bad option at all as one of the last guys out of your pen. If the Sox pen pitches like they have, the game gets really short.

Ol' No. 2
10-03-2005, 05:03 PM
Given that we have Jenks, Hermy, Cotts and Cliff in the bullpen, if we see Viz for any extended period of time it is most likely as an innings eater in a game we are getting killed in. He has been much better as of late though and in the scheme of things, is not a bad option at all as one of the last guys out of your pen. If the Sox pen pitches like they have, the game gets really short.I agree. It's unlikely that we'll see Vizcaino in a critical situation, and he'll be on a very short leash.

fquaye149
10-03-2005, 05:30 PM
I agree. It's unlikely that we'll see Vizcaino in a critical situation, and he'll be on a very short leash.

basically the only possible way we'll see Viz in a critical situation is if we go into a LONNNNNG extra innings game late in the series and burn through Herm, Jenks, Cotts, and Politte (and El Duque). I'm sorry, but if that's the situation, I want Viz over McCarthy - someone who has coped with failure and success at a big league level IN THE RELIEF ROLE.

Not only is McCarthy not used to coming out of the pen, not only is he unaccustomed to pitching in games that really and truly matter, but the fact is, if he blows a close game and costs us the playoffs....he's going to bear a lot of the blame...something that would weigh heavily on most 22 year-olds and be possibly be detrimental to their development as a ballplayer.

I know, I know...we should focus on winning now. I agree. My point though is, why set a future superstar up for failure and a stigma he may never rid himself of when a comparable (and probably better for this situation) option is available?

Ol' No. 2
10-03-2005, 05:35 PM
basically the only possible way we'll see Viz in a critical situation is if we go into a LONNNNNG extra innings game late in the series and burn through Herm, Jenks, Cotts, and Politte (and El Duque). I'm sorry, but if that's the situation, I want Viz over McCarthy - someone who has coped with failure and success at a big league level IN THE RELIEF ROLE.

Not only is McCarthy not used to coming out of the pen, not only is he unaccustomed to pitching in games that really and truly matter, but the fact is, if he blows a close game and costs us the playoffs....he's going to bear a lot of the blame...something that would weigh heavily on most 22 year-olds and be possibly be detrimental to their development as a ballplayer.

I know, I know...we should focus on winning now. I agree. My point though is, why set a future superstar up for failure and a stigma he may never rid himself of when a comparable (and probably better for this situation) option is available?Simple solution: Jose goes 7 IP. Cotts, Politte, Hermy and Sweet Home Chicago.:D:

A. Cavatica
10-03-2005, 07:53 PM
Which of these pitchers should have been the one left off the ALDS roster?

A. Cavatica
10-03-2005, 08:50 PM
Mods saw fit to combine my poll about pitchers with another roster thread. See Roster poll #2 to vote on position players...

A. Cavatica
10-03-2005, 11:05 PM
Viz getting killed in the poll so far. Compare to the other poll, where Gload and Blum are neck & neck.

slavko
10-03-2005, 11:15 PM
Can we all agree that we're not gonna run short on utility infielders?

HotelWhiteSox
10-03-2005, 11:21 PM
Viz getting killed in the poll so far.

Visions of Manny Ramirez HR's dancing through my head :whiner: (translation: Bad memories of the first game in the season series!)

Optipessimism
10-04-2005, 12:24 AM
Of course it was Viz who yielded the 590 foot blast to Manny in August. No sir... I don't like it.

Which of course followed a pop up to 3rd in foul territory which Crede dropped. I remember arguing back and forth that day because several posters were calling for Vizzy's head afterwards. Vizzy threw the pitch, but Crede gave up the HR.

Which brings me to my biggest fear of the series and playoffs in general: Crede's defense at 3rd. I thought he was going to ruin that clincher game in Detroit for us, but luckily we were playing the Tigers and PK made a nice grab. I sure hope to god Joe doesn't lose his focus because if he does that could hurt us badly.

Mr. White Sox
10-04-2005, 01:18 AM
Ross Gload was also left off of the playoff roster.

LINK (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-051003soxbits,1,1381158.story?coll=cs-home-headlines)

MrRoboto83
10-04-2005, 04:14 AM
No sunny disposition

A 3 p.m. matchup Tuesday between the team with the American League's best record and the defending World Series champion won't assure quality play, White Sox center fielder Aaron Rowand said.

The starting time creates more than just problems for the left fielders and center fielders contending with fly balls as the sun starts to set over U.S. Cellular Field.

"The 3 o'clock starts here are stupid," Rowand said. "We played against the Cubs at 3 o'clock, and it was ridiculous. If you want to see a real playoff game with both teams playing to their abilities, you're not going to start a game at 3 o'clock. It definitely helps the pitching.

"It's not so much the outfield," Rowand said. "It's the hitting. When the shadows come out when you're hitting, forget it."

Any cloud cover could diminish the effects of the shadows, which reached home plate Monday at 3 p.m.

Sox left fielder Scott Podsednik said he won't let the starting time affect him, although he had some problems picking up a fly balls during 3 p.m. Cubs games on June 24-25.

"I'll have shades on," Podsednik said. "If it presents a problem for me, it will present a problem for their left fielder."



This favors us, anything to make our pitching even better in the shadows is great. Perhaps Manny will lose a few flies in the sun too.

WinOrDyeTrying
10-04-2005, 04:44 AM
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_340393.jpg
"Hey, look at it this way. If I was a pitcher and my average was my ERA, I'd win the Cy Young!"