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View Full Version : Appeal to Sox fans- get off Damaso's


hawkjt
10-01-2005, 10:38 AM
back. Sure he has been inconsistent lately but in my mind he is the last piece to the bullpen puzzle along with El Duque if we can get his mind right.

Last nite in the 8th he was the old Marte- fastball at 95, nasty slider that froze guys. he obviously gave up a lucky hit to hafner(who looked helpless on the first two strikes ) and then a screamer to Martinez but he would never go more than one inning in the playoffs. Normally he would be out after the great 8th brimming with confidence.

Look, he is obviously a fragile head case type of guy and as oz has said when he gets booed just getting up in the bullpen it hurts him.

I beseech sox fans to cheer for him when he comes in at Soxpark on tues or wed. in the playoffs. To boo him would hurt the team. This kid is the second lefty that we desparately need against the lefty heavy hitting teams like the carmines,yanks,angels and Cards. He threw strikes last nite and that is the big thing for him. Do fans want to win or hold a grudge against a kid?

I also think if El duque can do it again this weekend like last nite then he fits the long reliever or even short reliever role better than B-Mac. B-Mac has been great but he just is not as experienced in a relieving role and the duke looks fresh and healthy. He was scary good last nite.

Just my two cents......

chaerulez
10-01-2005, 10:43 AM
If the Sox take 11 pitchers, I think it will come down to Marte or Viz for the last spot. I would rather take Marte, because he is left handed and I would use him only against left handers (they hit a higher average, but he strikes out lefties more and walks them less and has allowed less HRs). I don't know what role Viz could provide for the team, so that's why I would leave him out.

harwar
10-01-2005, 10:44 AM
If Ozzie decideds to put him on the playoff roster then i agree,welcome him.
The guy is a total head case and anything less than cheers and support and he may go hide under the dugout bench.
At this point(anytime in my opinion) booing anyone on the White Sox team is tantamount to sedition.

RallyBowl
10-01-2005, 10:48 AM
back. Sure he has been inconsistent lately but in my mind he is the last piece to the bullpen puzzle along with El Duque if we can get his mind right.

Last nite in the 8th he was the old Marte- fastball at 95, nasty slider that froze guys. he obviously gave up a lucky hit to hafner(who looked helpless on the first two strikes ) and then a screamer to Martinez but he would never go more than one inning in the playoffs. Normally he would be out after the great 8th brimming with confidence.

Look, he is obviously a fragile head case type of guy and as oz has said when he gets booed just getting up in the bullpen it hurts him.

I beseech sox fans to cheer for him when he comes in at Soxpark on tues or wed. in the playoffs. To boo him would hurt the team. This kid is the second lefty that we desparately need against the lefty heavy hitting teams like the carmines,yanks,angels and Cards. He threw strikes last nite and that is the big thing for him. Do fans want to win or hold a grudge against a kid?

I also think if El duque can do it again this weekend like last nite then he fits the long reliever or even short reliever role better than B-Mac. B-Mac has been great but he just is not as experienced in a relieving role and the duke looks fresh and healthy. He was scary good last nite.

Just my two cents......

Good post. I've never thought of it that way, but I agree that to boo him does hurt the team. We have reached the playoffs, and every team starts with a clean slate, so should every player. Cheer Damaso on, cheer them all on. I had some pretty harsh words for Carl last week, but that is over now. Clean slate for all, like I said.

Blancos Medias
10-01-2005, 11:21 AM
I've been as hard on Marte as anyone, but I can see your point. I missed the game last night, only saw it on MLB. From there it looked like he was up to his latest tricks.

I just hate to see McCarthy left off, perhaps Vizcaino is the choice to be the odd man out. As someone pointed out on another thread, he isn't the go-to guy in any situation. More of a fill-in guy.

If Hernandez looks good in relief, that makes the decision easy.

TomParrish79
10-01-2005, 11:44 AM
Marte will bury us all under a mountain of crap if he enters in a crucial situation in the playoffs.

hawkjt
10-01-2005, 11:44 AM
I jsut heard Cooper interviewed and he basically said the sox fans need to forgive and forget and get behind this kid just like the team has.

He would not commit but it was apparent he wants that second lefty in the bullpen. Go Sox

SOX ADDICT '73
10-01-2005, 11:44 AM
All season, Vizcaino has filled a role - serviceable middle relief, mostly in non-pressure situations - which would be taken up by El Duque and McCarthy, probably with better results. He used to be lights out against lefties, but not this year (.330 BAA to Marte's .261).

As frustrating as it's been to watch Damaso pitch lately, as certain as we've become that the mere rumor of his appearance will lead to opponents' runs, we need a lefty coming out of the pen who isn't David Sanders. At least Cotts showed last night that he can handle a little pressure (even if he did create it himself).

lumpyspun
10-01-2005, 11:53 AM
In Marte's defense from last night...

I'm not sure why Crede wasn't guarding the line...like you normally do in a tight game in the 9th inning...if he was guarding the line, that double would have been a routine grounder. Second, the groundball to shortstop that scored the tieing run would never had scored if we had the infield in and he went home with it. It was a soft broken bat grounder that we could have easily gone home with if the infield was drawn in. Ozzie has guarded the lines and pulled the infield in all year in similar situations...if he does it here...game over, we win...marte gets the save.

kitekrazy
10-01-2005, 12:19 PM
He reminds me of Jose V. You can love him in one game and want him released the next. I'm all for trading him after the season. I think watching him collapse in situations for the 3rd season in a row is enough.

He'll be on the roster for sure.

kitekrazy
10-01-2005, 12:28 PM
The guy is a total head case and anything less than cheers and support and he may go hide under the dugout bench.
At this point(anytime in my opinion) booing anyone on the White Sox team is tantamount to sedition.

Well they are "professionals" and if they can't deal with this part of the game then they should try another profession as long as it has nothing to do with being air traffic controllers.

Reggie Jackson use to get booed all the time by opposing teams.

Sports isn't for sissy millionaires. If you wan't all that good money then you have to deal with all aspects of the game and a big part of that is the fans.

DickAllen72
10-01-2005, 12:35 PM
In Marte's defense from last night...

I'm not sure why Crede wasn't guarding the line...like you normally do in a tight game in the 9th inning...if he was guarding the line, that double would have been a routine grounder.

They showed Ozzie right before that pitch last night motioning to watch out for a bunt and then shrugging his shoulders. I believe Crede moved in after Ozzie did that and then Martinez hit the ball down the line for a double.

chisox83
10-01-2005, 12:48 PM
Marte will bury us all under a mountain of crap if he enters in a crucial situation in the playoffs.

Amen. Lefty or righty, makes no difference if you can't do the job. I do not want to see him on the playoff roster (or for that matter, next year's opening day roster.)

beckett21
10-01-2005, 12:55 PM
I'm not a big proponent of booing Sox players, but I cringe whenever I see him warming up.

I don't know that he is capable of standing up to the pressure of the postseason if his psyche is so fragile he can't handle some boos. There's one way to ensure himself he doesn't get booed--get some damn outs.

I could take him or leave him as far as playoff roster is concerned. I know that I won't relish seeing him on the mound in a crucial game situation.

JB98
10-01-2005, 01:00 PM
They showed Ozzie right before that pitch last night motioning to watch out for a bunt and then shrugging his shoulders. I believe Crede moved in after Ozzie did that and then Martinez hit the ball down the line for a double.

We were watching the game at work last night, and after Ozzie did that, someone said out loud that there was no way in hell Martinez was bunting. We all agreed. Sure enough, Martinez swung away and shot one right past Crede and down the line. Silly Ozzie. He thinks other managers play the game the way he plays it.

As for Marte, I just wish Ozzie would understand that Damaso cannot close games. Marte is one of those guys who is comfortable in the eighth inning but tends to wet the bed in the ninth. Marte is struggling, but I also feel he is being misused.

Chips
10-01-2005, 01:01 PM
I'm not a fan booing players either, but Marte lost his confidence. Somedays it seems like he got it back and then its gone the next day. I do not want to see him on playoff roster, but I'm pretty sure he will be there. I am not a big fan of the lefty-lefty righty-righty matchups that most manager seem to like. If you're a picther get the hitter out regardless of which way he swings the bat.

Ol' No. 2
10-01-2005, 01:18 PM
back. Sure he has been inconsistent lately but in my mind he is the last piece to the bullpen puzzle along with El Duque if we can get his mind right.

Last nite in the 8th he was the old Marte- fastball at 95, nasty slider that froze guys. he obviously gave up a lucky hit to hafner(who looked helpless on the first two strikes ) and then a screamer to Martinez but he would never go more than one inning in the playoffs. Normally he would be out after the great 8th brimming with confidence.

Look, he is obviously a fragile head case type of guy and as oz has said when he gets booed just getting up in the bullpen it hurts him.

I beseech sox fans to cheer for him when he comes in at Soxpark on tues or wed. in the playoffs. To boo him would hurt the team. This kid is the second lefty that we desparately need against the lefty heavy hitting teams like the carmines,yanks,angels and Cards. He threw strikes last nite and that is the big thing for him. Do fans want to win or hold a grudge against a kid?

I also think if El duque can do it again this weekend like last nite then he fits the long reliever or even short reliever role better than B-Mac. B-Mac has been great but he just is not as experienced in a relieving role and the duke looks fresh and healthy. He was scary good last nite.

Just my two cents......Good post. It's not as if it was a couple of .200 hitters. It was Travis Hafner and Vic Martinez, for crissake. Those were not bad pitches. But these guys are good hitters, and sometimes they hit good pitches. It beats hell out of walking guys.

kitekrazy
10-01-2005, 01:42 PM
Good post. It's not as if it was a couple of .200 hitters. It was Travis Hafner and Vic Martinez, for crissake. Those were not bad pitches. But these guys are good hitters, and sometimes they hit good pitches. It beats hell out of walking guys.

Because it was Marte, that's a truth we want to ignore. That double didn't really look like a "I meant to do that" hit, but more on making contact.
Marte looked good in the 8th and you can't blame Ozzie for keeping him in a bit longer.

BarbG
10-01-2005, 02:00 PM
Reggie Jackson use to get booed all the time by opposing teams.


Sure he did. A LOT of guys get booed all the time by opposing teams. Just ask Hunter or Moredoughnez.

Not by their own teams. Their own fans. On their own field. BEFORE they even touch the ball one time. We have had some questionable characters in White Sox uniforms (Belle, LeFlore, Barrios) through the years and none of them were treated the way Marte has been. Is he the greatest reliever ever? Heck no. He's not the worst either. I'm also afraid that way too much of the booing has been a product of the over-exaggerated media garbage and not actual performance. A lot, if not all, of our guys have had some crappy games this year. Why is Marte singled out for ALL the venom?

Regardless, he's the one who's earned his way into that jersey and until it comes off I don't boo him. If for no other reason than the terrible message it sends the other team - that we have no confidence in our own. Even if you don't, you don't ever let the other team know that.

Jjav829
10-01-2005, 03:46 PM
I don't mind booing. It's the fans only way of voicing their displeasure with a player's performance. But I would agree with the main point of this thread. If you're going to the game, don't boo Marte when he enters the game and don't boo Ozzie if he goes to get Marte. Give Marte some support when he enters the game and hope for the best. If he does well, cheer him loudly as he leaves the mound. If he sucks, go ahead and boo all you want because he sucked. But at least give the guy some support when he first goes to the mound.

Palehose13
10-01-2005, 03:48 PM
I don't mind booing. It's the fans only way of voicing their displeasure with a player's performance. But I would agree with the main point of this thread. If you're going to the game, don't boo Marte when he enters the game and don't boo Ozzie if he goes to get Marte. Give Marte some support when he enters the game and hope for the best. If he does well, cheer him loudly as he leaves the mound. If he sucks, go ahead and boo all you want because he sucked. But at least give the guy some support when he first goes to the mound.

I'm with that 100%.

elrod
10-01-2005, 03:55 PM
Marte just had another chance, in an almost identical situation, and got beat by Hafner again. If he gets beat consistently by Hafner, what good is he against David Ortiz or Jason Giambi or Garrett Anderson in a similar situation in the playoffs? He's a lefty specialist and he can't get the big lefties out.

santo=dorf
10-01-2005, 04:04 PM
He has the highest WHIP on the staff (.22 higher than El Duque's!!!) 6.45 BB/9 which is by far the worse of any of the regulars, and to the defenders that got on me for jumpingon him back when his ERA was 2.5, his ERA is now 3.83.

No more excuses. He needs to be gone after 2005.

FanofBill
10-01-2005, 04:27 PM
he should be off the playoff roster and BMac in instead.

BarbG
10-01-2005, 04:33 PM
He needs to be gone after 2005.

I agree with you.

But we still have a lot of 2005 ahead, and for the remainder, I agree with Jjav 100%.

thezeker
10-01-2005, 06:10 PM
It looks like Ozzie & Cooper want him on the team. I think they just need to use him properly..


One batter MAX.

Bring him in ... If he gets the one man out....Great!

If he gets on... Get him out even quicker....

He invariably lets the next man on also.

To me this is the only way he should be used and he could prove to be very valuable in this limited role.

Use Cotts in all other situations!

MarySwiss
10-01-2005, 06:20 PM
It looks like Ozzie & Cooper want him on the team. I think they just need to use him properly..
One batter MAX.

Bring him in ... If he gets the one man out....Great!

If he gets on... Get him out even quicker....

He invariably lets the next man on also.

To me this is the only way he should be used and he could prove to be very valuable in this limited role.

Use Cotts in all other situations!

There is no way we should be carrying a pitcher on our postseason roster to face "one batter MAX."

Daver
10-01-2005, 06:36 PM
There is no way we should be carrying a pitcher on our postseason roster to face "one batter MAX."

Marte should spend October seeking a psychatrist to find out what is wrong in his head.

HotelWhiteSox
10-01-2005, 06:44 PM
I agree in any fan having the right to boo, but in this specific situation, I agree with the original poster, in that booing will not help anything/can only hurt. I don't mind booing when all is lost, but too much is on the line here for me!

kevin57
10-01-2005, 11:12 PM
I won't boo Marte. I'll wish him the best...but I'll also grab another brew when I see him emerge from the bullpen. :gulp:

SOX ADDICT '73
10-01-2005, 11:27 PM
Marte should spend October seeking a psychatrist to find out what is wrong in his head.
Imploding during games, regularly giving up leads, feuding publicly with the manager...for a while there it felt like we had our own version of LaToya Hawkins.:?: