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JackParkman
09-30-2005, 05:59 PM
So I got my new issue of The Sporting News today and eagerly opened up to its playoff preview. In it, they rank each of the 12 teams still contending (as of press time I assume) in several categories. Here's where the fun starts. While I can't argue with a couple of the picks (Sox #7 bullpen, #10 offense) some are simply flabbergasting.
My favorite? Managers, where the guy who took a team picked by most to finish 3rd or 4th in its division to possibly the best record in the AL is ranked 12th. That's not a misprint. Ozzie Guillen, according the the wise sages of the Sporting News, is the 12th best manager out of the 12 contending teams. Apparently he simply can't measure up to the great Ken Macha and the brilliant Charlie Manuel. Ugh.
Equally appalling is their ranking for "Mojo," where the Sox also rank 12th. Yep, a team that has a remarkable record in one-run games has no mojo, especially compared with close-knit grinder squads like the Yankees, Marlins and Red Sox. The best "Mojo" in all of baseball? The Indians.
Now might be a good time to write my first letter to an editor.

Daver
09-30-2005, 06:00 PM
I fully agree with them on the manager.

Soxfest
09-30-2005, 07:02 PM
I second that!

Joosh
09-30-2005, 07:27 PM
I fully agree with them on the manager.

I betcha I can pull a few strings and have Jerry Manuel managing again by the first game of the ALDS. :D:

skobabe8
09-30-2005, 07:28 PM
I fully agree with them on the manager.

:hawk

"Your what hurts?????"

Hitmen77
09-30-2005, 07:37 PM
So I got my new issue of The Sporting News today and eagerly opened up to its playoff preview. In it, they rank each of the 12 teams still contending (as of press time I assume) in several categories. Here's where the fun starts. While I can't argue with a couple of the picks (Sox #7 bullpen, #10 offense) some are simply flabbergasting.
My favorite? Managers, where the guy who took a team picked by most to finish 3rd or 4th in its division to possibly the best record in the AL is ranked 12th. That's not a misprint. Ozzie Guillen, according the the wise sages of the Sporting News, is the 12th best manager out of the 12 contending teams. Apparently he simply can't measure up to the great Ken Macha and the brilliant Charlie Manuel. Ugh.
Equally appalling is their ranking for "Mojo," where the Sox also rank 12th. Yep, a team that has a remarkable record in one-run games has no mojo, especially compared with close-knit grinder squads like the Yankees, Marlins and Red Sox. The best "Mojo" in all of baseball? The Indians.
Now might be a good time to write my first letter to an editor.

I guess that's why the Sox have only the 10th best record in the leage.

SouthSide_HitMen
09-30-2005, 07:48 PM
Farmer and Rooney spent a half inning maiking fun of this article. Farmer closed the inning "The Sporting News says the Indians have more mojo but our mojo is just fine tonight as we are tied 0-0 at the end of 4."


http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Set/6172/photos/austin01.jpg

"I still have my Mojo, yeah baby yeah!"

bluestar
09-30-2005, 08:14 PM
Farmer and Rooney spent a half inning maiking fun of this article. Farmer closed the inning "The Sporting News says the Indians have more mojo but our mojo is just fine tonight as we are tied 0-0 at the end of 4."

I laughed when Farmer asked Rooney, "Where do you get this mojo?"

I also got a chuckle later when Rooney asked Farmer if he wanted to keep the article or let Rooney "put it where it belongs."

flo-B-flo
09-30-2005, 09:09 PM
..........Rooney asked Farmer if he wanted to keep the article or let Rooney "put it where it belongs." Gonna miss that guy. Just a pleasure to here him call the game.
GO-GO SOX!!!

fquaye149
09-30-2005, 10:48 PM
I fully agree with them on the manager.

There are 14 teams in the AL. The White Sox have better records than 13 of them.

Now, most of that can be put on the pitching, situational hitting, etc. But you have to give a manager some credit for that. Just like Ron Gardenhire, Ozzie often makes stupid, baffling decisions. But just like with Gardenhire, something about Ozzie has people playing for him and winning. There's no way he can compare to the likes of Showalter and Torre or Pineilla in the AL and he's in the bottom half of managers - HOWEVER - a manager's ultimate goal is to win. The ends justify the means and until he actually costs the White Sox something, it's a hard sell that he's the 12th best manager in the AL.

Ol' No. 2
09-30-2005, 10:50 PM
So I got my new issue of The Sporting News today and eagerly opened up to its playoff preview. In it, they rank each of the 12 teams still contending (as of press time I assume) in several categories. Here's where the fun starts. While I can't argue with a couple of the picks (Sox #7 bullpen, #10 offense) some are simply flabbergasting.
My favorite? Managers, where the guy who took a team picked by most to finish 3rd or 4th in its division to possibly the best record in the AL is ranked 12th. That's not a misprint. Ozzie Guillen, according the the wise sages of the Sporting News, is the 12th best manager out of the 12 contending teams. Apparently he simply can't measure up to the great Ken Macha and the brilliant Charlie Manuel. Ugh.
Equally appalling is their ranking for "Mojo," where the Sox also rank 12th. Yep, a team that has a remarkable record in one-run games has no mojo, especially compared with close-knit grinder squads like the Yankees, Marlins and Red Sox. The best "Mojo" in all of baseball? The Indians.
Now might be a good time to write my first letter to an editor.The Indians just lost to the Charlotte Knights.

Mojo. :roflmao:

Daver
09-30-2005, 10:56 PM
There are 14 teams in the AL. The White Sox have better records than 13 of them.

Now, most of that can be put on the pitching, situational hitting, etc. But you have to give a manager some credit for that. Just like Ron Gardenhire, Ozzie often makes stupid, baffling decisions. But just like with Gardenhire, something about Ozzie has people playing for him and winning. There's no way he can compare to the likes of Showalter and Torre or Pineilla in the AL and he's in the bottom half of managers - HOWEVER - a manager's ultimate goal is to win. The ends justify the means and until he actually costs the White Sox something, it's a hard sell that he's the 12th best manager in the AL.

Tonight was a perfect example, he had all of his starters available to pinch hit in the eighth and ninth inning, and didn't use them. Granted the Sox pulled the game out, but he could have tried to save it from going thirteen innings.

The decision to let Marte go out for the ninth instead of bringing in Hermanson still baffles me, he had the lead, all he needed was three outs.

Ozzie is an idiot.

jehosaphat
09-30-2005, 11:14 PM
The decision to let Marte go out for the ninth instead of bringing in Hermanson still baffles me, he had the lead, all he needed was three outs.

Ozzie is an idiot.

If you were trying to decide who to keep on you playoff roster, this is the perfect time to use Marte. Marte is a lefty, which we need in the pen. His only problem is that he stinks. If he could have a couple good outings it would lead one to believe that he has got his act together, and can perform well, as he has done in the past. But, if he does as bad as he did tonight, it leads one to believe he will not be able to get anyone out in the playoffs, so better to go into the playoffs with one less lefty in the pen. Using Marte in this particular game was the right thing to do.

Daver
09-30-2005, 11:19 PM
If you were trying to decide who to keep on you playoff roster, this is the perfect time to use Marte. Marte is a lefty, which we need in the pen. His only problem is that he stinks. If he could have a couple good outings it would lead one to believe that he has got his act together, and can perform well, as he has done in the past. But, if he does as bad as he did tonight, it leads one to believe he will not be able to get anyone out in the playoffs, so better to go into the playoffs with one less lefty in the pen. Using Marte in this particular game was the right thing to do.

Win this game in regulation and hold your auditions Saturday and Sunday, you win you clinch homefield, there was no reason to drag it out for thiteen innings when there are still two games to go.

FarWestChicago
09-30-2005, 11:21 PM
The decision to let Marte go out for the ninth instead of bringing in Hermanson still baffles me, he had the lead, all he needed was three outs.While I'm not as harsh on Ozzie as you are, this one got me. Get the damn game over with. Everybody is hung over. You get home field. Put a closer in. :redneck

jehosaphat
09-30-2005, 11:22 PM
I laughed when Farmer asked Rooney, "Where do you get this mojo?"

I also got a chuckle later when Rooney asked Farmer if he wanted to keep the article or let Rooney "put it where it belongs."

As many of you know, I completed my dissertation on the study of mojo and am one of the world's foremost experts. As my study clearly shows, Mojo is an effect, not a cause. Mojo comes from being successful (i.e., good pitching, good hitting, good defense) and disappears when playing crappy baseball.

At the time the Sporting News was being written, the Sox were low on mojo, but now have quite a bit. The poor Indians just lost a game they had to have, and I'm afraid they don't have much mojo in the tank right now.

But, back to my premise, while winning baseball is highly correlated with mojo (as scientifically measured by the mojometer), correlation does not mean causation. In other words, the people who write these silly articles for the Sporting News are stupid and the money they received for writing such nonsense is rightfully mine.

elrod
09-30-2005, 11:40 PM
Ozzie brought Marte out in the 9th because he wanted to see how Marte would do against Hafner. He got ahead 0-2 and then threw him a hanging slider that Hafner took the opposite field. At that point Ozzie should have pulled him. Martinez is a switch hitter so why not bring in the closer?

TDog
10-01-2005, 12:38 AM
While the thread seems to have turned to tonight's managerial moves, I would like to say The Sporting News hasn't been worth the time it takes to read it since the Times-Mirror buyout. It used to be the Baseball Bible. Now it's a lightweight sports magazine that cares more about football.

Banix12
10-01-2005, 01:38 AM
The only problem major I have with Ozzie is his use of the bullpen. He gets way too caught up in lefty-righty matchups.

Marte getting used in the ninth to get a lefty out has rarely worked this year and often just puts hermanson in a jam. He should never do it and if Ozzie does it in the playoffs I am going to scream

Cotts is better against righties than he is lefties yet Ozzie continues to use him as a LOOGY, case in point the clinching game in detroit when Cotts gets the lefty out and then brings in Jenks to face a righty (except Jenks is better against lefties than righties).

I'm probably gonna get crushed on the board for saying this, but Ozzie has a lot more in common with Dusty Baker than he does with a Tony Larussa. Ozzie, like dusty, is a great motivator of talent and seems to get the maximum out of talents, even marginal ones, however like Dusty he is also a average game manager at best and tends to trust his gut and traditional game tactics instead of good situational analysis.

fquaye149
10-01-2005, 01:39 AM
Tonight was a perfect example, he had all of his starters available to pinch hit in the eighth and ninth inning, and didn't use them. Granted the Sox pulled the game out, but he could have tried to save it from going thirteen innings.

The decision to let Marte go out for the ninth instead of bringing in Hermanson still baffles me, he had the lead, all he needed was three outs.

Ozzie is an idiot.

You're absolutely right - it was a horrible decision and it shows Ozzie's weakness as a manager completely.

On the other hand we won - because the team played. There's no guarantee that even if the manager makes every gametime decision perfectly that a team will win - the best closer's have blown saves (except Gagne a couple years back).

The point is - there's two components to managing - making decisions and getting your boys to play for you. Ozzie can't make very good decisions to save his life, but he certainly has got the boys playing to the degree where they've won the division.

You're probably right - eventually it might hurt us having Ozzie as the manager...but in the end we'll win near 100 games and make the playoffs for the first time in 5 years.

IMO you're not a bad manager until you start losing. I know there's a lot of things wrong with that statement, but it's just my opinion.

JackParkman
10-01-2005, 09:16 AM
I fully agree with them on the manager.

Do you think Theo Epstein trades his roster straight up for the White Sox roster? How about Brian Cashman? Mark Shapiro? Bill Stoneman?

I find it pretty unlikely. Yet, lo and behold, the White Sox have a better record than those rosters. I suppose you could chalk it up to mere luck, but I tend to think that Ozzie's performance as manager has something to do with it.

Ozzie's far from perfect, but the fact remains he;'s had his team performing most of the year to the best of its capabilities and, according to some, beyond its capabilities. That, IMO, is the mark of a good manager.