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View Full Version : only 5 teams made money last year...


Iguana775
12-07-2001, 08:51 AM
Money making problems (http://www.chicagosports.com/cubs/content/story/0,1984,169526,00.html)

this is pretty damn pathetic!!!!!! i dont know how baseball can just allow this crap to happen. i sure hope something is done in the offseason......but i wont hold my breath.

ma-gaga
12-07-2001, 08:54 AM
:)

Well, I for one believe Bud.

irish rover
12-07-2001, 12:12 PM
with the cubs making money(which they claimed earlier that they didn't)but receiving less in tv and radio revenue than the sox(which could be done with creative book keeping) here is just another thought, but do you guys think they got less becasue of the amount of day games on tv, and if this is true leads to another theory of mine that the days of Wrigley maybe numbered. If one may look at it from a conspiracy(for which this maybe far fetched)but the cubs are asking for more night games(supposedly to get more tv revenue) and expand the stadium. Well they will only be able to expand seating so much(they already put more in there than the place was designed to hold)and they know that wrigleyville will only allow so many night games(for night games bring in different more drunken rowdy crowd) they may end up saying we need a new stadium to stay competative or end up charging $50 for bleachers

RedPinStripes
12-07-2001, 01:14 PM
Almost everyteam made money. they are just real good at hiding money and writing **** off. Just like the Bod said." These owners didn't get where they are by being stupid!!!" LOL!

Daver
12-07-2001, 05:16 PM
I know an accountant that can prove that Disneyworld lost money last year,it is all a matter of how cooked you want your books.

Jerry_Manuel
12-07-2001, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by daver
I know an accountant that can prove that Disneyworld lost money last year,it is all a matter of how cooked you want your books.

I was watching the best damn sports show period last night. John Kruck told a story from the '94 labor battle. Where one year the owner made 26 million in profits then the next year made 24 million and marked it down as a 2 million dollar loss.

Soxheads
12-07-2001, 07:33 PM
:reinsy "You can be sure no errors will be made as long as I am Sox president!"

danman31
12-07-2001, 07:59 PM
Did anybody see that stupid poll that ChicagoSports had?

Do you believe that the Cubs ($23.6 million) really have lower broadcast revenues than the White Sox ($30.1 million)?

Yes- 12.8%(151 votes)
No- 87.2%(1029 votes)

Is this the Trib's way of protest? Having biased Flub fans vote in a stupid poll?

Daver
12-07-2001, 08:05 PM
The Sox do have a higher TV revenue than the Cubs,WGN pays far under market value for the rights to Cubs broadcast,and has for the last 20 years.

danman31
12-07-2001, 08:11 PM
Originally posted by daver
The Sox do have a higher TV revenue than the Cubs,WGN pays far under market value for the rights to Cubs broadcast,and has for the last 20 years.

Exactly, they asked do you believe it. That is just pointless. You can't deny facts and that's what the Flub fans did.

Jerry_Manuel
12-07-2001, 08:15 PM
From Barry Rozner column in the Daily Herald:
Buddy Young Selig

Try to stay with me on this.

Baseball commish Bud Selig makes players boss Don Fehr sign a confidentiality agreement, swearing that the players won't show anyone the owners' books, threatening a lawsuit if they say a word about them.

Then, Selig takes a set of doctored books to Washington, leaks the numbers to an owner-favored reporter and shows them to Congress.

When a player rep asks if he can comment on them in front of lawmakers, Selig doesn't answer and the meeting is adjourned before the players can have their say.

This follows on the heels of contraction, which Selig failed to negotiate first with the players. It's clear Selig wants to intentionally anger the players, and he's escalating the war before it even begins.

Selig and his merry band of clowns are again pushing the players into a work stoppage, where the owners will be clobbered for the umpteenth time.

And these crooks deserve all that they get.

Doctor doctor

There are several teams owned by media conglomerates, but not one hides the money as well as the Cubs and Tribune Co.

For a decade we've told you that the Cubs keep their TV and radio revenues artificially low - they get paid less than they should - so that the profits stay in a different company pocket. It looks good for the corporation and bad for the Cubs, who can cry poor and spend less on payroll.

But by releasing the figures Thursday, Buddy Young Selig proved our case again.

Selig told us that the Cubs collect $23.5 million in local TV and radio revenue, when they should be no worse off than the Mets, who are at $46 million - and that's being generous. You could make a case for $60 million.

Nevertheless, that's $22.5 million to the corporate bottom line instead of to the Cubs, who could be spending it on players.

voodoochile
12-07-2001, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
From Barry Rozner column in the Daily Herald:
Buddy Young Selig

Try to stay with me on this.

Baseball commish Bud Selig makes players boss Don Fehr sign a confidentiality agreement, swearing that the players won't show anyone the owners' books, threatening a lawsuit if they say a word about them.

Then, Selig takes a set of doctored books to Washington, leaks the numbers to an owner-favored reporter and shows them to Congress.

When a player rep asks if he can comment on them in front of lawmakers, Selig doesn't answer and the meeting is adjourned before the players can have their say.

This follows on the heels of contraction, which Selig failed to negotiate first with the players. It's clear Selig wants to intentionally anger the players, and he's escalating the war before it even begins.

Selig and his merry band of clowns are again pushing the players into a work stoppage, where the owners will be clobbered for the umpteenth time.


Owners know they can't afford a long work stoppage that might cost them the season and post-season. You can bet they are going to use substitute players if they have to. They have 100's of minor leaguers and ex-college players who would love to don MLB colors and run around in front of the fans for $100K/year. Bet money that the owners will attempt to force the players into a salary cap, not that that is a bad thing, but the question remains, how long will it take for the players to finally cave in?

Players are correct that they are the stars, and the fans want to watch them, but in all honestly, if the current Sox players banded together and started playing ball against other major leaguers under a new league, who would the fans watch?

Would any of you go see the un-sox at Comiskey?

Would you go watch the stars in their secondary league?

In time, the level of play on the MLB clubs would come back up to an acceptable level (say 5 years), meanwhile, the players would have to take a huge pay cut to run a new league to compete with the owners. Some of the stars would defect to the owners by the end of next year and eventually, the MLBPA would die, IMO.

I would probably take the year off again, but in time would root for the Sox like always. Players come and players go, but I would never be able to accept another league that was destroying that which I loved so much.

Just curious what everyone else thought...

voodoochile
12-07-2001, 08:54 PM
Selig told us that the Cubs collect $23.5 million in local TV and radio revenue, when they should be no worse off than the Mets, who are at $46 million - and that's being generous. You could make a case for $60 million.

Nevertheless, that's $22.5 million to the corporate bottom line instead of to the Cubs, who could be spending it on players.

And the flubbies still are one of only 5 teams to show a profit on the books that Selig is showing congress. Man the fans of that team get screwed worse and worse everyday...

Flubbies should easily be able to afford a $100 million payroll with the money they make for the Trib. But, I guess it will be wait until next year... next year... next year...

93 years and counting... for turning a profit I mean of course...

:)

Daver
12-07-2001, 09:01 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile


Owners know they can't afford a long work stoppage that might cost them the season and post-season. You can bet they are going to use substitute players if they have to. They have 100's of minor leaguers and ex-college players who would love to don MLB colors and run around in front of the fans for $100K/year. Bet money that the owners will attempt to force the players into a salary cap, not that that is a bad thing, but the question remains, how long will it take for the players to finally cave in?

Players are correct that they are the stars, and the fans want to watch them, but in all honestly, if the current Sox players banded together and started playing ball against other major leaguers under a new league, who would the fans watch?

Would any of you go see the un-sox at Comiskey?

Would you go watch the stars in their secondary league?

In time, the level of play on the MLB clubs would come back up to an acceptable level (say 5 years), meanwhile, the players would have to take a huge pay cut to run a new league to compete with the owners. Some of the stars would defect to the owners by the end of next year and eventually, the MLBPA would die, IMO.

I would probably take the year off again, but in time would root for the Sox like always. Players come and players go, but I would never be able to accept another league that was destroying that which I loved so much.

Just curious what everyone else thought...

The owners can't afford to get replacement players,they would have no gate and they know it.People are NOT going to pay MLB prices to watch minor league baseball,and the MLBPA is the strongest sports union in the world,they will sit back and laugh at the owners.

But then again what the hell do I know?

voodoochile
12-07-2001, 09:15 PM
Originally posted by daver


The owners can't afford to get replacement players,they would have no gate and they know it.People are NOT going to pay MLB prices to watch minor league baseball,and the MLBPA is the strongest sports union in the world,they will sit back and laugh at the owners.

But then again what the hell do I know?

How much gate would they need to cover a $10 million payroll (that is being way generous)? They won't say anything until next February when most of the season tickets are already paid and the money is in the bank. Fox would still have to fork over their money for the games. Radio and local TV would have to pay. Changes in players do not entitle fans or stations to a refund. That is one of the most basic tennants of pro sports. Several lawsuits have been attempted through the years when a team went through a "re-building" phase, and no one has ever collected a dime back. This would be no different...

How long until a young up and comer like say Carlos decided to cross the line for $3 million/year? Pretty soon it would be a flood...

Daver
12-07-2001, 09:28 PM
I think the bigger problem would be getting the minor leaguers to agree to play.The owners have tried to break the union before,with abysmal result,and they cannot force the players in their minor league system to play while there is a work stoppage,that is why you had names like "Oil-can Boyd"floating around during the last time the owners thought they could sweat the MLBPA out.The TV networks might get screwed,but the fans will not go and no player would cross the line,that is why the MLBPA is the strongest union in pro sports.

But then again what the hell do I know?

voodoochile
12-07-2001, 09:32 PM
Originally posted by daver
I think the bigger problem would be getting the minor leaguers to agree to play.The owners have tried to break the union before,with abysmal result,and they cannot force the players in their minor league system to play while there is a work stoppage,that is why you had names like "Oil-can Boyd"floating around during the last time the owners thought they could sweat the MLBPA out.The TV networks might get screwed,but the fans will not go and no player would cross the line,that is why the MLBPA is the strongest union in pro sports.

But then again what the hell do I know?

You may be right. I still think the owners are going to try it if necessary. They know they can't afford a long stoppage. They will do whatever is necessary to make sure they play the WS next year. Life time minor leaguers who have nothing to lose will jump at the chance to play.

Who knows where it all ends up, but this is going to get way ugly before it gets better from the looks of things. I wouldn't count on spring training next year...

PaleHoseGeorge
12-07-2001, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by daver
I think the bigger problem would be getting the minor leaguers to agree to play.The owners have tried to break the union before,with abysmal result,and they cannot force the players in their minor league system to play while there is a work stoppage,that is why you had names like "Oil-can Boyd"floating around during the last time the owners thought they could sweat the MLBPA out.The TV networks might get screwed,but the fans will not go and no player would cross the line,that is why the MLBPA is the strongest union in pro sports.

Yep. No minor league ballplayer who thinks he has even an outside chance at reaching the show is going to ruin his one chance by becoming the owners' pawn in a chess match with the players' union. The only guys signing up to be replacement players back in 1994-95 were the over-the-hill types like Oil Can Boyd and the never-weres like Pete Rose, Jr.

Every one of those replacement players was fired when the strike ended. Not one of them got a severance, let alone a shot competing with the real players. Most of them were in training camp working for next to nothing, hoping the season would start before the strike ended, because only then would they begin to receive a decent salary.

Don't think the current group of minor leaguers don't know exactly what happened to the replacement players from 1994-95.

Daver
12-07-2001, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile


You may be right. I still think the owners are going to try it if necessary. They know they can't afford a long stoppage. They will do whatever is necessary to make sure they play the WS next year. Life time minor leaguers who have nothing to lose will jump at the chance to play.

Who knows where it all ends up, but this is going to get way ugly before it gets better from the looks of things. I wouldn't count on spring training next year...

I think someone here mentioned that a few months ago..........

:)

Tragg
12-07-2001, 10:51 PM
I want to see cash flow statements. how much cash came in - how much went out.

Until then, I don't believe this crap for a minute. They depreciate everything, from snotballs to players. And depreciation doesn't cost a lick of cash.

Daver
12-07-2001, 11:04 PM
Originally posted by Tragg
I want to see cash flow statements. how much cash came in - how much went out.

Until then, I don't believe this crap for a minute. They depreciate everything, from snotballs to players. And depreciation doesn't cost a lick of cash.

The only way you will see those numbers is to buy a team,not even the U.S. Congress is allowed to open those books,until the antitrust exemption is yanked.

irish rover
12-08-2001, 11:40 AM
guess who said this, "We can't guarantee a winning team, but we can
guarantee the physical properties. We take care of that."