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32nd&Wallace
09-26-2005, 02:47 PM
How about a thread to take our minds off the pennant race? I know this thread comes around every year but a friend of mine and I were talking about some of the worst Sox players ever. We set a criteria that in order to qualify as the worst Sox player ever, the player HAS to have been a regular player for at least one season - starting in a majority of games. For example, no Armando Rios or Ken Hill.

My vote - Todd Ritchie. The projected no. 2 starter for the White Sox in the 2002 season. Oh how nice it would have been to have Kip Wells in our rotation for the past two years. Look forward to hearing everyone else's opinion

chitownhawkfan
09-26-2005, 02:50 PM
:hitless:

Well, at least I can say that I finally won something!

Sad
09-26-2005, 02:52 PM
worst ever is rather encompassing, but I'll vote Jamie Navarro... :angry: :redneck

Flight #24
09-26-2005, 02:53 PM
Step aside fakers, there is no substitute......


:jaime

32nd&Wallace
09-26-2005, 02:53 PM
If I can, I'd like to offer a close second - Anyone remember Jerry Don Gleaton? He was a reliever in the mid80s. It seemed like everytime this guy got in he would get lit up.

Baby Fisk
09-26-2005, 02:54 PM
Santo! SANTO! SANTO!!! :angry:

SOXintheBURGH
09-26-2005, 02:55 PM
Step aside fakers, there is no substitute......


:jaime

:worship:

Dice
09-26-2005, 02:55 PM
worst ever is rather encompassing, but I'll vote Jamie Navarro... :angry: :redneck

I second, thrid, fourth and fifth this vote. He was suppose to be our ace when he arrived in 97.

LongLiveFisk
09-26-2005, 02:56 PM
If I can, I'd like to offer a close second - Anyone remember Jerry Don Gleaton? He was a reliever in the mid80s. It seemed like everytime this guy got in he would get lit up.

Right era, right position, but the name should be Mike Stanton! Talk about getting lit up everytime he touched the ball.

Mohoney
09-26-2005, 02:58 PM
I second, thrid, fourth and fifth this vote. He was suppose to be our ace when he arrived in 97.

Chalk up another vote for Jaime Navarro.

santo=dorf
09-26-2005, 02:58 PM
I get a laugh everytime Cubs fans say we gave up a "good prospect" in Sosa. He was ****ing atrocious.

Hangar18
09-26-2005, 02:58 PM
Chris Sabo
and Carlos Martinez

ChiSoxGirl
09-26-2005, 02:59 PM
Mike Caruso
Chris Snopek
Jamie Navarro
Scott Ruffcorn

The list goes on and on, my friends.

SoxFan78
09-26-2005, 03:00 PM
My vote - Todd Ritchie. The projected no. 2 starter for the White Sox in the 2002 season. Oh how nice it would have been to have Kip Wells in our rotation for the past two years. Look forward to hearing everyone else's opinion

I hated this guy. It seemed like every time I went to the park in 2002 he was pitching, and it was a automatic loss.

32nd&Wallace
09-26-2005, 03:00 PM
Chris Sabo
and Carlos MartinezChris Sabo play a whole season?

Bucky F. Dent
09-26-2005, 03:01 PM
Alan Bannister.

No Range
No Stick
No Speed
No Good.

32nd&Wallace
09-26-2005, 03:01 PM
I hated this guy. It seemed like every time I went to the park in 2002 he was pitching, and it was a automatic loss.God, so many things irk me about that trade. And not just the obvious what we gave up, but the Sox had planned to go for the Central that year with a pitching staff that included Buehrle, Ritchie, Garland, Danny Wright and a injured Jim Parque. Ugh! Why did it take Kenny to get solid 4 and 5 guys?

Baby Fisk
09-26-2005, 03:03 PM
Alan Bannister.

No Range
No Stick
No Speed
No Good.
Maybe that explains why there's no takers for this. (http://cgi.ebay.com/Chicago-White-Sox-GAME-USED-Jersey_W0QQitemZ5245144872QQcategoryZ24891QQssPage NameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

Banix12
09-26-2005, 03:08 PM
John "I'll take my one ball and go home" Kruk

I always thought Matt Merullo was pretty useless but his name was fun to say, same with Don Wakamatsu.

Ken Hill, Jose Paniagua, Alan Embree stunk with us, the posterboy of 1st round pick failure Shawn Abner.

Ritchie, Ruffcorn and Navarro are always the classics though

Geoff Blum his working his way up this list

Risk
09-26-2005, 03:14 PM
IMHO, all discussions about the worst Sox player end with Jamie Navarro.

Rounding out this List of Shame:

2) Mike Caruso;
3) Todd Ritchie;
4) Chris Snopek;
5) Scott Ruffcorn.

Risk

Fuller_Schettman
09-26-2005, 03:15 PM
I am going to say Julio Cruz, only because after the couple of good months he gave us on the way to the 83 division title, we gave him a big fat contract and he went bust on us. Right upside our head!

ChiSoxGirl
09-26-2005, 03:16 PM
IMHO, all discussions about the worst Sox player end with Jamie Navarro.

Rounding out this List of Shame:

2) Mike Caruso;
3) Todd Ritchie;
4) Chris Snopek;
5) Scott Ruffcorn.

Risk

You named every single player I did, except I'm embarrassed to admit that I omitted the infamous Todd Ritchie from the list! What the hell was I thinking?! :redface:

jdm2662
09-26-2005, 03:16 PM
Adam Peterson. Does that name ring a bell? I couldn't stand watching him pitch.

Rodney Bolton is up there as well.

SouthSide_HitMen
09-26-2005, 03:17 PM
If I can, I'd like to offer a close second - Anyone remember Jerry Don Gleaton? He was a reliever in the mid80s. It seemed like everytime this guy got in he would get lit up.

Yeah - we used Jerry Don Gleaton as a home run call (like "you can put it on the board").

Ozzie was one of the worst regulars I have seen (at the plate - his glove saved him). Royce Clayton was a God awful hitter (and good glove man) as well.

Timo Perez is my nomination for current worst White Sox player.

I hated Greg Norton & Todd Ritchie. Steve Sax blew chunks (only on the White Sox) as well as Tim Hulett & Kevin Bell at 3rd.

Personally all are trumped by Jerry Dybzinski in my lifetime. We would have won it all.

All time the worst is Chick Gandil may he rot in hell.

Soxzilla
09-26-2005, 03:20 PM
Geoff Blum his working his way up this list

Bah. Geoff has made quite a few magical plays this year, enough to remove him from the all-time crap list.

Remember 'the slide' back in Minnesota...it was huge.:gulp:

My personal pick...hmmm....

Rick White.

santo=dorf
09-26-2005, 03:20 PM
http://ballcardz.com/images/boltonrodney.jpghttp://www.rookiesquantities.com/Images/T92_036.jpg


:anon:

Minnie Me
09-26-2005, 03:21 PM
Ferris Fain former AL Batting Champ was a major bust, injured for most of his Sox tenure, and 25 years later busted for growing weed.

Optipessimism
09-26-2005, 03:23 PM
'The Deacon' Warren Newson and Dale "I have no place on this team" Sveum. I never understood why Hawk liked Warren so much.

A.T. Money
09-26-2005, 03:26 PM
Mike Jackson!

Optipessimism
09-26-2005, 03:26 PM
Bah. Geoff has made quite a few magical plays this year, enough to remove him from the all-time crap list.

Remember 'the slide' back in Minnesota...it was huge.:gulp:

My personal pick...hmmm....

Rick White.

If you include White then you have to include his partners in crime:
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:EI_D5vV58tkJ:www.freewebs.com/egautographs/MIKEJACKSON.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.freewebs.com/egautographs/MIKEJACKSON.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.freewebs.com/egautographs/currentplayersuccesses.htm&h=448&w=305&sz=112&tbnid=EI_D5vV58tkJ:&tbnh=124&tbnw=84&hl=en&start=3&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmike%2Bjackson%2Bsox%26svnum%3D10%26h l%3Den%26lr%3D)http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:WQNrl7ZdQxIJ:images.art.com/images/products/large/10104000/10104825.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://images.art.com/images/products/large/10104000/10104825.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.publispain.com/super-posters/ChicagoWhiteSox-BillyKoch.htm&h=479&w=382&sz=27&tbnid=WQNrl7ZdQxIJ:&tbnh=126&tbnw=100&hl=en&start=1&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbilly%2Bkoch%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%2 6lr%3D)

ChiSoxGirl
09-26-2005, 03:27 PM
http://ballcardz.com/images/boltonrodney.jpghttp://www.rookiesquantities.com/Images/T92_036.jpg


:anon:

Gotta love that bowtie he's wearing on his Draft Pick card! :redneck

GoSox2K3
09-26-2005, 03:27 PM
Step aside fakers, there is no substitute......


:jaime

No contest, without a doubt - Jamie Navarro. I think Navarro did more damage to this frachise than any player in recent memory. Our signing him instead of resigning Kevin Tapani or signing Roger Clemens started the Sox down an abyss that took years to climb out of.

After signing Belle, we were supposed to be making a run for the World Series in 1997. Thanks to the infamous signing of Navarro instead of a competent pitcher, we were 3 1/2 games out of first on 7/31/97 when the Sox made the infamous white flag trade. This decimated what remained of our fan base and it took us years to recover from that fiasco. If we didn't have Navarro giving us automatic losses every 5th game, I'm guessing that the WFT would never have happened.

Aside from the chain reaction of event that this train wreck of a player caused, he was one of the least likeable Sox players I can remember. He totally sucked and had a terrible attitude. He helped fans stay away in droves while he was here.

I couldn't believe our luck (or the Brewers stupidity, take your pick), when in 2000, we were able to trade him for Cal Eldred and Jose Valentin. I would have settled for trading him for a bag of magic beans.

lumpyspun
09-26-2005, 03:28 PM
My vote goes for Scott Fletcher:

Over 14 seasons he was a career .262 hitter with 34 career homers. Why he gets my vote is b/c we picked him up in trades TWO different times. If he wasn't bad enough the first time, we went back out and got him again. Not to mention we gave up Harold for him...

January 25, 1983: Traded by the Chicago Cubs (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHC/1983.shtml) with Randy Martz (http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/martzra01.shtml), Pat Tabler (http://www.baseball-reference.com/t/tablepa01.shtml), and Dick Tidrow (http://www.baseball-reference.com/t/tidrodi01.shtml) to the Chicago White Sox (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/1983.shtml) for Steve Trout (http://www.baseball-reference.com/t/troutst01.shtml) and Warren Brusstar (http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/brusswa01.shtml).

November 25, 1985: Traded by the Chicago White Sox (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/1985.shtml) with a player to be named later and Ed Correa (http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/correed01.shtml) to the Texas Rangers (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/TEX/1985.shtml) for Wayne Tolleson (http://www.baseball-reference.com/t/tollewa01.shtml) and Dave Schmidt (http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/schmida01.shtml). The Chicago White Sox (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/1985.shtml) sent Jose Mota (http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/motajo01.shtml) (December 11, 1985) to the Texas Rangers (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/TEX/1985.shtml) to complete the trade.

July 29, 1989: Traded by the Texas Rangers (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/TEX/1989.shtml) with Wilson Alvarez (http://www.baseball-reference.com/a/alvarwi01.shtml) and Sammy Sosa (http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/sosasa01.shtml) to the Chicago White Sox (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/1989.shtml) for Harold Baines (http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/baineha01.shtml) and Fred Manrique (http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/manrifr01.shtml).

TomBradley72
09-26-2005, 03:31 PM
From the 70's: Claude Osteen had a horrific year as a member of the rotation...7-16, 4.86 ERA...I was a kid....seemed like every time he pitched he was absolutely torched....but we kep trotting him out there.

wilburaga
09-26-2005, 03:32 PM
Steve 'Alpo' Sax. Bow wow.


W

SouthSide_HitMen
09-26-2005, 03:32 PM
My vote goes for Scott Fletcher:

Over 14 seasons he was a career .262 hitter with 34 career homers. Why he gets my vote is b/c we picked him up in trades TWO different times. If he wasn't bad enough the first time, we went back out and got him again. Not to mention we gave up Harold for him...

July 29, 1989: Traded by the Texas Rangers (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/TEX/1989.shtml) with Wilson Alvarez (http://www.baseball-reference.com/a/alvarwi01.shtml) and Sammy Sosa (http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/sosasa01.shtml) to the Chicago White Sox (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/1989.shtml) for Harold Baines (http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/baineha01.shtml) and Fred Manrique (http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/manrifr01.shtml).

We also received Sammy who our GM, Larry Himes, was obsessed with and most importantly to White Sox fans Wilson Alvarez who gave us several good seasons.

The other two trades didn't hurt us either - we gave up nothing.

Baines, though he was my favorite player, was pretty much done being a productive OF at the time and I thought the trade was a good one.

TomBradley72
09-26-2005, 03:34 PM
No contest, without a doubt - Jamie Navarro. I think Navarro did more damage to this frachise than any player in recent memory. Our signing him instead of resigning Kevin Tapani or signing Roger Clemens started the Sox down an abyss that took years to climb out of.

After signing Belle, we were supposed to be making a run for the World Series in 1997. Thanks to the infamous signing of Navarro instead of a competent pitcher, we were 3 1/2 games out of first on 7/31/97 when the Sox made the infamous white flag trade. This decimated what remained of our fan base and it took us years to recover from that fiasco. If we didn't have Navarro giving us automatic losses every 5th game, I'm guessing that the WFT would never have happened.

Aside from the chain reaction of event that this train wreck of a player caused, he was one of the least likeable Sox players I can remember. He totally sucked and had a terrible attitude. He helped fans stay away in droves while he was here.

I couldn't believe our luck (or the Brewers stupidity, take your pick), when in 2000, we were able to trade him for Cal Eldred and Jose Valentin. I would have settled for trading him for a bag of magic beans.

One of the worst parts of the trade was the way Schueler "evaluated" Navarro...his ERA was a full run higher in the NL vs. Alex's as in the AL....with the "extra run" you need to build into ERA's (with the DH)....this was just plain horrible judgement. Would be bad for a 1 year signing...but we locking him up for a long term deal was lunacy.

SouthSide_HitMen
09-26-2005, 03:37 PM
One of the worst parts of the trade was the way Schueler "evaluated" Navarro...his ERA was a full run higher in the NL vs. Alex's as in the AL....with the "extra run" you need to build into ERA's (with the DH)....this was just plain horrible judgement. Would be bad for a 1 year signing...but we locking him up for a long term deal was lunacy.

Salaries Record ERA
1997 Chicago White Sox $5,000,000 9-14 5.79
1998 Chicago White Sox $5,000,000 8-16 6.36
1999 Chicago White Sox $5,000,000 8-13 6.09

:chunks

jackbrohamer
09-26-2005, 03:47 PM
And because the team was paying Navarro so much they were by God gonna run him out there every 5th day for a start no matter how bad he was. I went to a home game v. the Yankees on Memorial Day (1999 maybe) that Navarro started & gave up 8 runs in the first 1/3 of an inning.

Uncle_Patrick
09-26-2005, 03:56 PM
Maybe that explains why there's no takers for this. (http://cgi.ebay.com/Chicago-White-Sox-GAME-USED-Jersey_W0QQitemZ5245144872QQcategoryZ24891QQssPage NameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

That outrageous starting bid doesn't really help, either.

tlebar318
09-26-2005, 04:03 PM
I thought Brian Downing was pretty bad until he went to the Angels and became an all-star for them back in the 70's. I guess Navarro it is in a landslide!

Jerko
09-26-2005, 04:04 PM
Navarro, Ritchie and Clayton are givens. Who the heck was in center all the time a few years back, Ramirez something or other? I HATED him and now I can't even remember his name. Paniagua, Slappy, Spanky, Christmas, and Dilone also come to mind.

Unregistered
09-26-2005, 04:04 PM
I'm trying to think of what/who the better qualifier would be: A guy like Jose Paniagua who NEVER, EVER did anything good for the team - in fact, in his 1/3 innings pitched here, some say he may have stopped any momentum the Sox had that season...
or a guy like Jamie Navarro who had random flashes of good outings, but had a bad attitude and took millions of dollars he didn't deserve from the franchise.

I tend to think that the guys like Royce Clayton, Mike Caruso and Navarro at least had decent games - hell, Caruso almost won the ROY... so that alone stops them from becoming the worst ever. To me, a guy like Paniagua did nothing but BAD for the short time he was here - and deserves it more than most.

tlebar318
09-26-2005, 04:05 PM
That outrageous starting bid doesn't really help, either.

$475 for an Alan Bannister jersey? you gotta be kidding me!

The Dude
09-26-2005, 04:05 PM
The worst of the worst over the past 10 years or so (in no order)

Pitchers
Ken Hill
Jose Paniagua
Alan Embree
Todd Ritchie
Mike Jackson
Billy Koch
Ken Vining
Rick White
Scott Ruffcorn
Jason Bere (after 94)
Jamie Navarro

Position Players
Royce Clayton
Timo Perez
D'Angelo Jiminez
Mike Caruso
Mark Johnson
Joe Borchard
Willie Harris
Armando Rios

my5thbench
09-26-2005, 04:08 PM
yea I agree, Jamie Navarro....but he could come up with some good

excuses for the way he pitched & was all too happy to call out teamates

Chips
09-26-2005, 04:09 PM
The worst of the worst over the past 10 years or so (in no order)



Position Players

Joe Borchard


:LTP "Are you kidding me? As soon as I learns to make contact, I'll be a stud"

antitwins13
09-26-2005, 04:09 PM
http://espn-att.starwave.com/media/mlb/2002/0914/photo/a_wright_i.jpg Hands down, Danny Wright. Ohhh the humanity!!!:(:

32nd&Wallace
09-26-2005, 04:10 PM
Navarro, Ritchie and Clayton are givens. Who the heck was in center all the time a few years back, Ramirez something or other? I HATED him and now I can't even remember his name. Paniagua, Slappy, Spanky, Christmas, and Dilone also come to mind.Julio Ramirez?

chuckn98229
09-26-2005, 04:11 PM
Pat Kelly - the guy who would be intentionally walked so they could pick him off first base.

nordhagen
09-26-2005, 04:14 PM
In the early-to-mid 80s he was that era's answer to Damaso Marte ----

Juan Agosto - situational lefty reliever, usually the situation turned ugly for the Sox and in turn the fans turned ugly on Agosto

Other favorites...

Glenn Borgmann
Bob Coluccio
Nyls Nyman
John Cangelosi
Jesse Jefferson

And of course...

Claudell "Slept Here" Washington

Jerko
09-26-2005, 04:14 PM
Julio Ramirez?

Ugh, yes. :angry:

rm0824
09-26-2005, 04:16 PM
Seems that good 'ol Jaime is the "favorite" here. He gets another vote here. As does
Todd Ritchie,
Juan "Disgusto",
Chris Snopek,
Ben Davis,
Rod Bolton,
Tom Fordham,
Liu Rodriguez,
Luis Andujuar.

cubhater
09-26-2005, 04:18 PM
Step aside fakers, there is no substitute......


:jaime

Besides being the worst Sox player ever, he's got my vote as biggest whiner ever.

Imagine if we got Clemens instead.

Moses_Scurry
09-26-2005, 04:19 PM
In the late '80's (I think 87-88) the 2B, Donnie Hill, really stunk it up. I hated him coming to bat because he was an automatic out.

peeonwrigley
09-26-2005, 04:21 PM
I'm laughing at some of the names I had purged from my memory as they reappear here.

32nd&Wallace
09-26-2005, 04:22 PM
Besides being the worst Sox player ever, he's got my vote as biggest whiner ever.

Imagine if we got Clemens instead.Wasn't Clemens quoted as saying that he wanted to come to Chicago?

Flight #24
09-26-2005, 04:24 PM
No contest, without a doubt - Jamie Navarro. I think Navarro did more damage to this frachise than any player in recent memory. Our signing him instead of resigning Kevin Tapani or signing Roger Clemens started the Sox down an abyss that took years to climb out of.



Actually, that makes me reconsider my selection, and I'll broaden the definition to do so.....

:schueler
"Who needs over the hill guys like Clemens & Bonds when you can have Navarro & Belle?"

JUribe1989
09-26-2005, 04:27 PM
Todd Ritchie and 2004 Joe Borchard.

JRIG
09-26-2005, 04:28 PM
Always had a soft (or should that be hard?) spot in my heart for...

:gun

Julio Ramirez


Though I doubt he's really the worst.

DannyCaterFan
09-26-2005, 04:29 PM
Everybody is forgetting about Hank Allen, brother of Dick. He had a roster spot only because it was in his brother's contract for awhile.

Jurr
09-26-2005, 04:35 PM
Julio Ramirez?
Easily Julio Ramirez was the worst player I could remember. Manuel was absolutely in love with this "speedster", but fans weren't impressed with a nonexistent bat. Ughh.

jdm2662
09-26-2005, 04:35 PM
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:z1q2uB02sFMJ:espn-att.starwave.com/media/mlb/2002/0914/photo/a_wright_i.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://espn-att.starwave.com/media/mlb/2002/0914/photo/a_wright_i.jpg&imgrefurl=http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story%3Fcolumnist%3Drogers_phil%26id%3D1496899&h=200&w=275&sz=15&tbnid=z1q2uB02sFMJ:&tbnh=79&tbnw=109&hl=en&start=4&prev=/images%3Fq%3DDan%2BWright%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%2 6lr%3D%26sa%3DG) Hands down, Danny Wright. Ohhh the humanity!!!:(:

Hey now, Danny Wright and future Hall of Famer Carrie Woods have both the same career high in wins for a season!

Clarkdog
09-26-2005, 04:36 PM
Tim Fortugno. Pitched for the Sox in 1995.

I remember getting into an argument with Dave Wills that season (I think he was doing postgame at the time). Willsy called him a fine left-handed specialist out of the pen. I called and told him I never saw a game that Fortugno pitched where he didn't give up run, and we'd be lucky if we could get a bag of balls for him. Turns out maybe we could have.....

From athomeplate.com
Tim Fortugno, a career minor leaguer, pitched for fifteen different teams. During his baseball career, Fortugno was the "property" of six different major-league clubs. Being traded was a way of life for him. Even Fortugno, however, was probably shocked to learn, in 1989, that the Reno (Nevada) Silver Sox had traded him to the Milwaukee Brewers organization in exchange for twelve dozen baseballs and $2,500.

Minnie Me
09-26-2005, 04:36 PM
A Donnie Hill really makes you appreciate was Tadihito has done for us this year. Is he the best since Fox?

elrod
09-26-2005, 04:38 PM
Chris Snopek.
As the replacement for Robin Ventura, Snopek couldn't field, throw or hit.

SOXfnNlansing
09-26-2005, 04:44 PM
"Slappy" Caruso (played ss IIRC) was the worst in my memory as a position player. I think he did hit a homer against the cubs one year, but he was a below average fielder and couldn't hit a lick after his rookie year... he was a rally killer when he came to the plate with men on base



http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats_historical/mlb_player_locator_results.jsp?playerLocator=carus o <<<link

clogoodie
09-26-2005, 04:47 PM
Lots of good (bad?) names being mentioned...

I have horrible memories of Ken Vining a few years back. Obviously not the worst ever, but his career stat line is awful. Claim to fame (that was beaten to death by Hawk) was that with his promotion to the big leagues, every player acquired from SanFran in the White Flag Trade played for us in the majors.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=vininke01
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5172607224&categor... (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5172607224&category=55889)

Final Career MLB stats:
8 Games
6.2 IP
15 H
14 R
13 ER
3 HR
7 BB
1 HBP
3 K
17.55 ERA

getonbckthr
09-26-2005, 04:54 PM
how can anyone forget "THE CRANE" JESUS PENA and the biggest sox killer as an indian until he came here and again became a sox killer cause he sucked COREY SNYDER.

nordhagen
09-26-2005, 04:54 PM
Tim Fortugno. Pitched for the Sox in 1995.

I remember getting into an argument with Dave Wills that season (I think he was doing postgame at the time). Willsy called him a fine left-handed specialist out of the pen. I called and told him I never saw a game that Fortugno pitched where he didn't give up run, and we'd be lucky if we could get a bag of balls for him. Turns out maybe we could have.....

From athomeplate.com
Tim Fortugno, a career minor leaguer, pitched for fifteen different teams. During his baseball career, Fortugno was the "property" of six different major-league clubs. Being traded was a way of life for him. Even Fortugno, however, was probably shocked to learn, in 1989, that the Reno (Nevada) Silver Sox had traded him to the Milwaukee Brewers organization in exchange for twelve dozen baseballs and $2,500.


And another great lefty "specialist" - Tony Castillo

And of course - Carlos "Where are the Chips and Dip" Castillo

Not only was Donnie Hill a bad player, but before a Sox road trip, he had a dog he was leaving at home. So he left food bowls marked with the day of the week because of course the dog was going to just stop at one bowl each day

Muopsies
09-26-2005, 04:54 PM
worst ever is rather encompassing, but I'll vote Jamie Navarro... :angry: :redneck


Easily the winner of this. The best thing about Jamie was his signature pitch, the hanging curve ball.

nordhagen
09-26-2005, 04:56 PM
Tim Fortugno. Pitched for the Sox in 1995.

I remember getting into an argument with Dave Wills that season (I think he was doing postgame at the time). Willsy called him a fine left-handed specialist out of the pen. I called and told him I never saw a game that Fortugno pitched where he didn't give up run, and we'd be lucky if we could get a bag of balls for him. Turns out maybe we could have.....

From athomeplate.com
Tim Fortugno, a career minor leaguer, pitched for fifteen different teams. During his baseball career, Fortugno was the "property" of six different major-league clubs. Being traded was a way of life for him. Even Fortugno, however, was probably shocked to learn, in 1989, that the Reno (Nevada) Silver Sox had traded him to the Milwaukee Brewers organization in exchange for twelve dozen baseballs and $2,500.


And speaking of Willsy, it would be interesting to hear his radio call if in the best-case scenario the Sox clinch the Central - possibly as a result from a Devil Rays' win over the Tribe.

nordhagen
09-26-2005, 04:56 PM
Easily the winner of this. The best thing about Jamie was his signature pitch, the hanging curve ball.

And then of course he'd blame the catcher for calling it and the wind currents that day for not allowing the pitch to do what it was supposed to

jdm2662
09-26-2005, 04:57 PM
COREY SNYDER.

I will never forget my first visit to New Comiskey on May 1991. Corey made a great play at first base in the tenth inning. He made up for it at the plate with his four strikeouts that game... Sammy Sosa, on the few times he actually did something good for the Sox, homered in the bottom of the 10th to win. Of course, my uncle discovered fireworks in the parking lot, and we found out what happened after we turned on the radio...

I_Liked_Manuel
09-26-2005, 05:00 PM
:bkoch:
"i was pretty bad too"


also, mike jackson, armando rios, and d'angelo jiminez sucked a lot

cheeses_h_rice
09-26-2005, 05:06 PM
Jose Paniagua -- no one player ever did so much bad in 1/3 of an inning with the ballclub, and then managed to get into a fight with the umps afterward. His ERA with the White Sox was 108.00, for chrissake.

And, of course, no list would be complete without Jaime "It's So Frustrating" Navarro. What a freaking bum.

Deuce
09-26-2005, 05:08 PM
:ritchie

"Finally, I get a win!"

anewman35
09-26-2005, 05:10 PM
Jose Paniagua -- no one player ever did so much bad in 1/3 of an inning with the ballclub, and then managed to get into a fight with the umps afterward. His ERA with the White Sox was 108.00, for chrissake.


What's really funny is that he's not listed on the all-time roster in the media guide either of the last two years. I wonder if that's intentional...

Fuller_Schettman
09-26-2005, 05:13 PM
Chris Snopek.
As the replacement for Robin Ventura, Snopek couldn't field, throw or hit.

...but he could play a mean Rhythm Master!!

Hangar18
09-26-2005, 05:26 PM
The worst of the worst over the past 10 years or so (in no order)

Pitchers
Ken Hill
Jose Paniagua
Alan Embree
Todd Ritchie
Mike Jackson
Billy Koch
Ken Vining
Rick White
Scott Ruffcorn
Jason Bere (after 94)
Jamie Navarro

Position Players
Royce Clayton
Timo Perez
D'Angelo Jiminez
Mike Caruso
Mark Johnson
Joe Borchard
Willie Harris
Armando Rios

the one thing ive noticed, esp withthe pitchers, is that these guys were mostly all CHEAP .............that is they were Patchwork type players

nordhagen
09-26-2005, 05:30 PM
the one thing ive noticed, esp withthe pitchers, is that these guys were mostly all CHEAP .............that is they were Patchwork type players

Cheap and the Sox - NO WAY!!!

And you could take just about all the players from the late 80s except for Fisk, Baines and a few others and put them on this list. The worst GM would also come from that era - fortunately HE GONE and is back to talking instead of dealing.

soxfanreggie
09-26-2005, 05:41 PM
Navarro and Ritchie...even my sister could point out that they sucked, and she knows very little about individual players. She would be like "I don't want to go if they're going to pitch those sucky guys."

nordhagen
09-26-2005, 05:43 PM
Navarro and Ritchie...even my sister could point out that they sucked, and she knows very little about individual players. She would be like "I don't want to go if they're going to pitch those sucky guys."

I was there the day Ritchie got nailed in the head with a line drive by someone from Tigers. Unfortunately it didn't knock him out of the game and the Tigers took care of that a short time later.

santo=dorf
09-26-2005, 06:06 PM
I only remember Todd pitching one good game, and it was against the Braves.

Naturally he got the loss.

Flight #24
09-26-2005, 06:16 PM
the one thing ive noticed, esp withthe pitchers, is that these guys were mostly all CHEAP .............that is they were Patchwork type players

You think that might be because they sucked? There tends to be a correlation there, one that you'd find for every team if you created such a list. But don't let that interfere with a good rant!

TommyJohn
09-26-2005, 06:20 PM
Another vote for Mike Stanton.
Kevin Bell.
Terry Bevington. He never played, but he was so bad and stupid I just had to
include him.
But number one on my worst ever list, the dishonorable "You, Sir are
Absolute Scum" Award for the worst player in White Sox history goes to:

Arnold "Chick" Gandil.
Ringleader of the 1919 world series fix. 'Nuff said.

slobes
09-26-2005, 06:44 PM
Todd Ritchie. He woulda gotten 20 losses if he hadn't gotten "hurt".

Lorenzo Barcelo
09-26-2005, 06:48 PM
Rodney Bolton + Scott Ruffcorn= Worst prospects ever.
Joe Bread and Water= Worst reliver to pitch a 1/3 of an inning

eastchicagosoxfan
09-26-2005, 06:49 PM
Navarro was awful, and the more so because so much was expected of him, which leads me to Daryl Boston. He was supossed to a great five tool guy, and he stunk. He combined unlimited talent, with great expectations, to play 11 seasons.

I think some of the guys on these lists don't deserve to be there. Kevin Bell tore up his knee, Snopek was a decent back-up, but he was never projected as a starter.

MarySwiss
09-26-2005, 06:52 PM
Probably no one will agree with me, but I used to hate to see Terry Forster come in. Seems like he always let the bad guys tie the game up so he could get the win. And there were a fair number he didn't get, as I recall. Anyway, he made me crazy.

Argalarga
09-26-2005, 07:02 PM
Gotta go with David Wells. Came into the 2001 season with the fanfare of a conquering hero, then did nothing but get drunk, get shelled, get hurt and get run out of town.

What a waste.

California Sox
09-26-2005, 07:03 PM
Steve Lyons. No power, no OBP, atrocious baserunner, terrible defensively at several positions and... A two year starter! He was so bad that when Robin replaced him in the lineup and failed to get a hit for three weeks, he was still more valuable than Lyons.

Plus, he's a bad broadcaster.

Flight #24
09-26-2005, 07:04 PM
Navarro was awful, and the more so because so much was expected of him, which leads me to Daryl Boston. He was supossed to a great five tool guy, and he stunk. He combined unlimited talent, with great expectations, to play 11 seasons.

I think some of the guys on these lists don't deserve to be there. Kevin Bell tore up his knee, Snopek was a decent back-up, but he was never projected as a starter.

Navarro IMO was the Golden Sombrero: Bad Performance, Bad Attitude, Big Salary, Big Expectations/Role, Long time to have an impact.

Say what you want about guys like Borchard, Snopek, and even Paniagua don't come close on many of those scales.

D. TODD
09-26-2005, 07:12 PM
I am going to say Julio Cruz, only because after the couple of good months he gave us on the way to the 83 division title, we gave him a big fat contract and he went bust on us. Right upside our head! I loved Juice Cruz. The fact that he got a terrible contract given to him is not his fault. Now his partying well, that was his fault, but Juice Cruz is a fond White Sox memory to me. Jerry Dybzinski on the other hand AHHHHHHH!!!! I won't get started since it was only one play, but a play that I can't forgive him for!

Dibbs
09-26-2005, 07:14 PM
Jaime Navarro was the first person that came to my mind when I read the thread title. That dude served them up like no other...truly amazing. I have never witnessed control problems like that before...grooving them to the very middle of the strike zone every time.

johnny bench
09-26-2005, 07:25 PM
After Navarro... Lee "Bee Bee" Richard stands out for some reason from my childhood memories.

TommyJohn
09-26-2005, 07:27 PM
Probably no one will agree with me, but I used to hate to see Terry Forster come in. Seems like he always let the bad guys tie the game up so he could get the win. And there were a fair number he didn't get, as I recall. Anyway, he made me crazy.

Terry Forster, the only reliever to ever relieve himself during an inning. True
story. During one tight ballgame when he was on the mound, he called timeout
and ran off to go to the bathroom.

MarySwiss
09-26-2005, 07:29 PM
Jerry Dybzinski on the other hand AHHHHHHH!!!! I won't get started since it was only one play, but a play that I can't forgive him for!
I still maintain that Bobby Knoop deserves an equal share of the blame on that one. He'd been sending guys all year on plays like that. In fact, if anyone starts a "worst Sox coach ever" thread, I know who I'm voting for.

MarySwiss
09-26-2005, 07:31 PM
Terry Forster, the only reliever to ever relieve himself during an inning. True story. During one tight ballgame when he was on the mound, he called timeout and ran off to go to the bathroom.

:rolling:

SOXfnNlansing
09-26-2005, 07:35 PM
:tomatoaward 100 defunct players

whitesoxfan
09-26-2005, 07:47 PM
Caruso is always the 1st that comes to mind.

buehrle4cy05
09-26-2005, 07:48 PM
Tood Ritchie, Brian Daubach, Mike Caruso.

ChiSoxGirl
09-26-2005, 07:50 PM
There seems to be a common ground forming here- Todd Ritche, Mike Caruso, Rod Bolton, Scott Ruffcorn, etc.- and ALL for a legitimate reason; they sucked!

wassagstdu
09-26-2005, 08:00 PM
Steve Sax. Total dud.

Someone mentioned Scott Fletcher. No way. He was one of my favorites. He was always a gamer, and he could play on the 05 team.


.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-26-2005, 08:03 PM
Jose Paniagua -- no one player ever did so much bad in 1/3 of an inning with the ballclub, and then managed to get into a fight with the umps afterward. His ERA with the White Sox was 108.00, for chrissake.

And, of course, no list would be complete without Jaime "It's So Frustrating" Navarro. What a freaking bum.

Yeah, for peak value nobody will ever match Jose Paniqua's 1/3 inning. The '03 tailspin started in earnest with his one and only appearance. The Sox couldn't hustle him off the team quick enough.
:tongue:

Caruso would be a good choice, but even Slappy had *one* decent season, 1998. I think that makes him an also-ran for this title.

The champion must be somebody counted on to deliver, paid handsomely to do it, and failed miserably for an extended period of at least one season, preferably more. Bonus points for bad attitude.

By this yardstick the choice is obvious: Jaime "Ace" Navarro. Schueler signed him for the same money Roger Clemens was available for, but Ron liked Jaime better. He failed miserably 3 straight seasons with the Sox and you could always count on him for some great quotes after each misadventure.

Dumping Navarro on Milwaukee (with John Snyder) for Cal Eldred and Jose Valentin is what made the '00 Sox into a 95-win division champion. It must have been like lifting 200 pounds of bricks off the shoulders of the Sox ballplayers to not have that worthless dope around the clubhouse anymore.

Brian26
09-26-2005, 08:47 PM
My vote goes for Scott Fletcher:



I couldn't disagree with you more. Fletcher was one of my favorites on those late 80's/early 90s clubs. He was the original grinder. Busted his ass all over the field.

Brian26
09-26-2005, 08:52 PM
My vote goes for Ken Hill, a cheap-ass pickup by Schueler down the stretch in 2000. 2 games (1 started), 3 innings pitched, 8 earned runs, ERA of 24.00. Released immediately. When Manuel went out to yank him after he got lit up in his first start, he had a smile on his face like it was funny.

SOXSINCE'70
09-26-2005, 08:55 PM
John "fatass" Kruk.:angry: :angry:

SOXSINCE'70
09-26-2005, 09:00 PM
COREY SNYDER.

It's Cory,not Corey.And yes,he did suck.:cool:

1951Campbell
09-26-2005, 09:02 PM
Just about every third baseman from the 30's to Ventura.

LongLiveFisk
09-26-2005, 09:05 PM
Someone mentioned Scott Fletcher. No way. He was one of my favorites. He was always a gamer, and he could play on the 05 team.


Agreed...he was also a tough out. Really worked the pitchers as I recall.

LongLiveFisk
09-26-2005, 09:12 PM
Brian Daubach

Not that he was great for us, but I don't think I'd classify him in this category. In fact he had a hot bat going there for a while in '03 until...

:jerry
"Tinker! Tinker! Come on PK, bases loaded no outs--you can't possibly hit into a DP in this situation!" :tongue:

minastirith67
09-26-2005, 09:15 PM
Yeah, for peak value nobody will ever match Jose Paniqua's 1/3 inning. The '03 tailspin started in earnest with his one and only appearance. The Sox couldn't hustle him off the team quick enough.
:tongue:

This isn't directed at PHG necessarily, but does anybody have any video footage of that meltdown? I just heard it on the radio at the time and would like to see for myself what happened. I'm no masochist, I swear...

Andy T Clown
09-26-2005, 09:17 PM
Navarro and Koch.

I just remember how happy I was when they were gone. :D:

Viva Medias B's
09-26-2005, 09:39 PM
Claudell "Slept Here" Washington

That's who I was waiting for.

mr_genius
09-26-2005, 09:56 PM
Winner: Billy Koch


Runner up: David Wells


Honorable mention: Darren Jackson

beckett21
09-26-2005, 09:59 PM
My vote goes for Ken Hill, a cheap-ass pickup by Schueler down the stretch in 2000. 2 games (1 started), 3 innings pitched, 8 earned runs, ERA of 24.00. Released immediately. When Manuel went out to yank him after he got lit up in his first start, he had a smile on his face like it was funny.

:valet

That's how I always look. :D:

DC Sox Fan
09-26-2005, 10:04 PM
http://www.astrosdaily.com/cards/1990D_Agosto_Juan.jpg
http://www.sportscollective.com/premier/jwhcards/storepics42/89374.jpg
http://www.stu-man.com/90ud/195hassey.jpg
http://www.stu-man.com/90ud/369skinner.jpg


Notice how none of them are wearing a sox uni :redneck

ElDuque26
09-26-2005, 10:09 PM
The way that Carl has played the 2nd half and september more importantly could put him up there. He probably has cost us a handful of games with his K's and no contact style.

santo=dorf
09-26-2005, 10:30 PM
The way that Carl has played the 2nd half and september more importantly could put him up there. He probably has cost us a handful of games with his K's and no contact style.

GMAB.

How about the guy in your handle? :rolleyes:

billyvsox
09-26-2005, 10:52 PM
C) Joel Skinner
1b) Steve Lyons / Carmelo Martinez
2b) Freddie Manrique
ss) Jerry Dybzinski / Mike Caruso
3b) Nawtoughn
Lf) Kenny Williams
Cf) David Boston
Rf) Dan Pasqua

SP) Todd Ritchie
Jamie Navarro
Jim Parque
Scott Ruffcorn
Ken Hill

Closer) Billy Koch

RKMeibalane
09-26-2005, 11:11 PM
(teal)

:hurt

(/teal)

Taliesinrk
09-26-2005, 11:18 PM
The way that Carl has played the 2nd half and september more importantly could put him up there. He probably has cost us a handful of games with his K's and no contact style.

You're joking right?? Great quote following this one about your user name.. either way, I don't think that 23 HR's and the potential for 90 RBi's is gonna put someone there.. By the way, single handedly carrying our RBi load coming out of the gate this year pretty much makes him off the list.. That is ridiculous.
For the record, Scott Fletcher is also definately not on this list. And furthermore, we've had some interesting catchers post Fisk/Karkovice. But I've really gotta go with Billy "where'd my fastball go?" Kotch. I still don't know how we ended up getting that big of a shaft on that trade.. Dumbfounding really.

jabrch
09-26-2005, 11:34 PM
David Wells may not be the worst - but he is certainly in the team picture.

Taliesinrk
09-26-2005, 11:39 PM
David Wells may not be the worst - but he is certainly in the team picture.

Especially since he's done so well elsewhere... does that count for anything in this? I mean should we take into consideration their overall potential compared to how absolutely pathetic they were in a Sox uni???

RKMeibalane
09-26-2005, 11:44 PM
Especially since he's done so well elsewhere... does that count for anything in this? I mean should we take into consideration their overall potential compared to how absolutely pathetic they were in a Sox uni???

It depends on the circunstances. In Wells' case, he acted like a complete prick while he was here, so I'm not willing to let him off the hook because his back was bothering him. In the case of someone like Cory Snyder, however, who just couldn't adapt to Walt Hriniak's hitting style, I don't think there's any reason to include him on the roster, although he was a much better player for Cleveland, San Francisco, and LA.

santo=dorf
09-27-2005, 12:07 AM
Why exactly did the Sox trade for Embree back in 2001? :?:

nordhagen
09-27-2005, 12:17 AM
Why exactly did the Sox trade for Embree back in 2001? :?:

If I remember they picked him up off waivers. Mainly because he was lefty and threw 95 mph - even if it was straight as an arrow and hit twice as hard as it came in.

kitekrazy
09-27-2005, 12:24 AM
Wasn't Clemens quoted as saying that he wanted to come to Chicago?

Reinsdorf decided not to go after Roger because he was injury prone. Only if we had him now. There's nothing like having a living legend in your dugout.

kitekrazy
09-27-2005, 12:32 AM
Kevin Bell.


At least someone remembers the Veeck years.
Remember when they traded Jim Spencer (?) because they thought Lamar Johsnon was their future 1st baseman?

How about Ron Bloomberg, Wayne Nordhagen behind the plate. Alan Bannister.

nordhagen
09-27-2005, 12:58 AM
At least someone remembers the Veeck years.
Remember when they traded Jim Sundberg (?) because they thought Lamar Johsnon was their future 1st baseman?

How about Ron Bloomberg, Wayne Nordhagen behind the plate. Alan Bannister.

It was Jim Spencer who was let loose for Lamar Johnson.

And don't forget Junior Moore, Bill Nahorodny, Pablo Torrealba and Mike Colbern

MUsoxfan
09-27-2005, 01:04 AM
My vote goes for Scott Fletcher:

Why he gets my vote is b/c we picked him up in trades TWO different times. If he wasn't bad enough the first time, we went back out and got him again.

http://www.beisbolprofesional.net/RobertoAlomarPR.jpg

"If that's the criteria, I think I deserve a vote! Not only did I eat up prospects and money, I also hit a solid .220ish with 4 HR's and 25 RBI's over parts of two seasons. I'd like to thank Kenny Williams for paying me to sit on the DL for most of my time with the Chicago White Sox."

TaylorStSox
09-27-2005, 01:22 AM
Winner: Billy Koch


Runner up: David Wells


Honorable mention: Darren Jackson


You mean Darrin "I hit .312 in '94 for the Sox" Jackson? Your name is "mr. genius?" Interesting... :?:

santo=dorf
09-27-2005, 01:42 AM
Your name is "mr. genius?" Interesting... :?:
It should be Dr. Genius.

StillMissOzzie
09-27-2005, 05:42 AM
It's hard to argue with the great steaming pile that's been nominated so far, in particular Navarro & Ritchie. However, I'd like to reserve a special wing in this hall of shame for those turds who were decent somewhere else but stunk up the place once they landed on the south side. Guys others have mentioned, like:

Donnie Hill
Claudell Washington
Cory Snyder
Steve Sax
Ron Blomberg
Chris Sabo

feel free to add some more...

Edit: There should also be some "bang for the buck" consideration. If a guy who was earning the MLB minimum wage (Snopek, etc) sucked, well, then you could say that the Sox got what they deserved. Again, Navarro runs away in this category, but who else was really out there stealin' a paycheck?

SMO
:gulp:

CPditka
09-27-2005, 09:11 AM
I havent read the whole thread: but my list goes something like this in no order...

Jaime Navarro
Sammy Sosa
Jose Canseco
Mike Jackson
and as much of a serious team player he was.. Billy Koch.

Reichardt
09-27-2005, 09:27 AM
Ed Stroud was pathetic in 1971. 2 RBI in 141 AB

wdelaney72
09-27-2005, 10:07 AM
Julio Ramirez?

Yes he was bad, but after we released him, Anaheim picked him up and he hit a home run off of Danny Wright. That puts Danny Wright worse in my book. I think the Angels won that game 19-1 or something ridiculous.

SoxFanTillDeath
09-27-2005, 10:36 AM
Edit: There should also be some "bang for the buck" consideration. If a guy who was earning the MLB minimum wage (Snopek, etc) sucked, well, then you could say that the Sox got what they deserved. Again, Navarro runs away in this category, but who else was really out there stealin' a paycheck?

:LTP
Pick Me! Pick Me!

ode to veeck
09-27-2005, 11:00 AM
I'll never forget the day at Oakland where Ramirez and Royce were AB and on the on deck circle and the scoreboard showed two batting averages below .100

SoxFanTillDeath
09-27-2005, 11:26 AM
I'll never forget the day at Oakland where Ramirez and Royce were AB and on the on deck circle and the scoreboard showed two batting averages below .100

Royce Clayton up until the All-Star break has got to be the worst baseball player on the planet, and if he isn't than he definitely was when he was with us.

For my job I sometimes have to measure the thickness of certain items, and I remember vividly looking at the digital display on the caliper and going, "Wow, that looks like Clayton's batting average!" What's sick is that it was actually higher, and I was measuring an envelope stuffed with 2 folded pieces of paper! :redneck

Frankly Missing
09-27-2005, 12:31 PM
1. Wells
2. Wells mouth

They are both so big they must be counted as separate acquisitions.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-27-2005, 12:37 PM
1. Wells
2. Wells mouth

They are both so big they must be counted as separate acquisitions.

Too funny. I would have to break the Wells acquisition into three parts. Wells ASS was awfully big, too.

:wink:

Stroker Ace
09-27-2005, 12:42 PM
Jose Paniagua

Todd Ritchie

Billy Koch

Jamie Navarro

Willie Harris

tstrike2000
09-27-2005, 12:51 PM
Jose Paniagua

tstrike2000
09-27-2005, 12:51 PM
Too funny. I would have to break the Wells acquisition into three parts. Wells ASS was awfully big, too.

:wink:

His behind may fall a close second to his beer belly.

jackbrohamer
09-27-2005, 01:06 PM
Ricky Horton sucked in his short tenure here. IIRC he was opening day starter in 1988; then he went 6-10, 4.86 before the Sox dumped him. One of the worst Sox teams in my lifetime too (71-90).

Brian26
09-27-2005, 01:10 PM
Jose Canseco

Canseco, IMHO, did a hell of a job for us down the stretch in 2001 filling in for Frank.

TaylorStSox
09-27-2005, 01:13 PM
Canseco, IMHO, did a hell of a job for us down the stretch in 2001 filling in for Frank.


Agreed.


These names have no business in this thread.
Darrin Jackson
Willie Harris
Danny Wright
Jose Conseco

Brian26
09-27-2005, 01:16 PM
Agreed.


These names have no business in this thread.
Darrin Jackson
Willie Harris
Danny Wright
Jose Canseco

Let me add:
Scott Fletcher

petekat
09-27-2005, 02:00 PM
Kevin Bell

1979 23 CHW (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/1979.shtml) AL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1979.shtml) 70 200 20 49 8 1 4 22 .245 .296 .355

1980 24 CHW (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/1980.shtml) AL (http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1980.shtml) 92 191 16 34 5 2 1 11 .178 .284 .241

17 errors .923 FA
16 errors .925 FA

Royce Clayton up until the All-Star break has got to be the worst baseball player on the planet, and if he isn't than he definitely was when he was with us.

For my job I sometimes have to measure the thickness of certain items, and I remember vividly looking at the digital display on the caliper and going, "Wow, that looks like Clayton's batting average!" What's sick is that it was actually higher, and I was measuring an envelope stuffed with 2 folded pieces of paper! :redneck

lumpyspun
09-27-2005, 02:17 PM
Let me add:
Scott Fletcher

I didn't want to have to do the research, but I feel I must defend my addition of Scott Fletcher to the list...Everyone seems to be in agreement that Royce Clayton is up there on the list, so I did a quick comparison of Scott Fletcher and Royce Clayton (both being middle infielders). I took the 5 years Scott played for the Sox and the 2 years Clayton played for the Sox and did a combination of totals and averages. I realize it's not scientific b/c of the year difference, but I think I make a strong argument:

Royce Clayton: Scott Fletcher:
16 HR's in 2 years (total) 14 HR's in 5 years (total)
15 SB's in 2 years (7.5/yr) 23 SB's in 5 years (4.6/yr)
.305 OBP (2 year avg) .308 OBP (5 yrs avg)
.257 BA (2 year avg) .239 BA (5 yrs avg)
47.5 RBI/year (2 years) 36 RBI's/year (5 yrs)
6 errors/year (with 7 the highest in one year) 11 errors/year (19 highest)

These are just the major stats, but they are pretty much similar. With Royce being a better fielder and more power. And back to my original point with Scott....we let him go and then decided that we should bring him back a few years later....I agree he had alot of heart and might have been a great clubhouse guy....but the numbers just aren't there...sorry.

Brian26
09-27-2005, 02:27 PM
but the numbers just aren't there...sorry.

I don't think you understand the point of the thread. Scott Fletcher is not the worst player in White Sox history. Not even close. Sorry.

gobears1987
09-27-2005, 02:31 PM
Let me add:
Scott Fletcher
Timo also doesn't deserve to be on this list. He is the 25th man on the bench. He isn't supposed to do much, but he still gets clutch hits. What do you expect of him?

lumpyspun
09-27-2005, 03:04 PM
My vote goes for Ken Hill, a cheap-ass pickup by Schueler down the stretch in 2000. 2 games (1 started), 3 innings pitched, 8 earned runs, ERA of 24.00. Released immediately. When Manuel went out to yank him after he got lit up in his first start, he had a smile on his face like it was funny.

If you look at the original thread it says the following:
We set a criteria that in order to qualify as the worst Sox player ever, the player HAS to have been a regular player for at least one season - starting in a majority of games. For example, no Armando Rios or Ken Hill.

Then you come out and say Ken Hill. So, actually I think you don't understand the point of the thread.

Hangar18
09-27-2005, 03:33 PM
If you look at the original thread it says the following:
We set a criteria that in order to qualify as the worst Sox player ever, the player HAS to have been a regular player for at least one season - starting in a majority of games.




Billy Koch should get very serious consideration. He alone cost us the 2003 Division Crown

billcissell
09-27-2005, 03:40 PM
Biggest disappointment - Navarro
Biggest jerk - David Wells

I recall one rainy spring night a few years back when Navarro was pitching. As usual, he was getting shelled. Several fans were posting Navarro's acheivements with placards along the facade in the upper deck. No, they didn't read "K-K-K-K-K" but rather something like "BB-HPB-2B-WP-SB-HR".

And although some of the following players weren't considered regulars for a full season, their performance in a Sox uniform deserves to be recognized:

Jim Brezeale, Gale Hopkins, John Mathias, Cotton Nash, Mike Eden, Tim Nordbrook, Jerry Royster, Luis Alvarado, Bee Bee Richard, Harry Chappas, Eddie Leon, Rich McKinney, Ed Spezio, Syd O'Brien, Dick Kenworthy, Junior Moore, Lorenzo Gray, Kevin Bell, Rick Reichardt, Nyls Nyman, Rusty Kuntz, Rich Coggins, Royle Stillman, Chuck Brinkman, Tom Egan, Pete Varney, Hank Allen, Ron Blomberg, Rich "Tex" Wortham, Neil Allen, Cisco Carlos, Vincente Romo, Gerry Janeski, Skip Pitlock, Juan Agusto, Pablo Torreablo

Several guys who DO NOT belong in this category, in my opinion: Scott Fletcher, Alan Bannister, Wayne Nordhagen

D. TODD
09-27-2005, 03:46 PM
I didn't want to have to do the research, but I feel I must defend my addition of Scott Fletcher to the list...Everyone seems to be in agreement that Royce Clayton is up there on the list, so I did a quick comparison of Scott Fletcher and Royce Clayton (both being middle infielders). I took the 5 years Scott played for the Sox and the 2 years Clayton played for the Sox and did a combination of totals and averages. I realize it's not scientific b/c of the year difference, but I think I make a strong argument:

Royce Clayton: Scott Fletcher:
16 HR's in 2 years (total) 14 HR's in 5 years (total)
15 SB's in 2 years (7.5/yr) 23 SB's in 5 years (4.6/yr)
.305 OBP (2 year avg) .308 OBP (5 yrs avg)
.257 BA (2 year avg) .239 BA (5 yrs avg)
47.5 RBI/year (2 years) 36 RBI's/year (5 yrs)
6 errors/year (with 7 the highest in one year) 11 errors/year (19 highest)

These are just the major stats, but they are pretty much similar. With Royce being a better fielder and more power. And back to my original point with Scott....we let him go and then decided that we should bring him back a few years later....I agree he had alot of heart and might have been a great clubhouse guy....but the numbers just aren't there...sorry. It goes to the "likeability" of the athlete. Some get roasted and some get a hall pass. Royce Clayton was a better player then Scottie Fletcher, but that isn't saying much. People did not like his attitude , so they factor that into how they judge a player. Fletcher hustled so he gets a pass on terrible numbers.

D. TODD
09-27-2005, 03:48 PM
Another disappointment to me was that midget Harry Chappas. Hell, he made a S.I. cover. All I wanted him to be is another Freddie Patek, but I came to see he was no Freddie Patek, just a little squirt who people could root for, but never could cut it with the big boys.

Knucksie
09-27-2005, 04:10 PM
Being a SOX fan since 1968, there are so many... Some of the awful players they have had, I can't put on the list because they were nice guys, fan favorites or I at least got an autograph from. I would have to include that loser, Santo, on the list. Don Kissinger can join him too. Those were some desperate days. I never liked Lamar Johnson except to see him in those unis with the shorts, hilarious. I also hated Dan Pasqua. What a bust he was.


Maybe we should have an all loser team.

Santo @ 3b with Snopek as Backup
Caruso @ SS with Kissinger as Backup
Hill @ 2B
Lamar Johnson @ 1B
Robert Machado or Mark Johnson behind the dish
Dan Pasqua in RF
Too many LF that sucked to pick one

Plenty of pitchers... Ritchie, Navarro, Ruffcorn, Bolton, Jaun Agosto, etc, etc., etc. take your pick.

Don Gutteridge as manager
Terry Bevington on the staff as a coach (close 2nd for manager choice. who could ever forget him going to the mound and making a change with no one warming up in the pen!)
Nardi Contreas as pitching coach
Hitting coach...Take your pick
Hawk as GM

nordhagen
09-27-2005, 04:50 PM
Being a SOX fan since 1968, there are so many... Some of the awful players they have had, I can't put on the list because they were nice guys, fan favorites or I at least got an autograph from. I would have to include that loser, Santo, on the list. Don Kissinger can join him too. Those were some desperate days. I never liked Lamar Johnson except to see him in those unis with the shorts, hilarious. I also hated Dan Pasqua. What a bust he was.


Maybe we should have an all loser team.

Santo @ 3b with Snopek as Backup
Caruso @ SS with Kissinger as Backup
Hill @ 2B
Lamar Johnson @ 1B
Robert Machado or Mark Johnson behind the dish
Dan Pasqua in RF
Too many LF that sucked to pick one

Plenty of pitchers... Ritchie, Navarro, Ruffcorn, Bolton, Jaun Agosto, etc, etc., etc. take your pick.

Don Gutteridge as manager
Terry Bevington on the staff as a coach (close 2nd for manager choice. who could ever forget him going to the mound and making a change with no one warming up in the pen!)
Nardi Contreas as pitching coach
Hitting coach...Take your pick
Hawk as GM

And then Pasqua got busted ...

santo=dorf
09-27-2005, 04:59 PM
Agreed.


These names have no business in this thread.
Darrin Jackson
Willie Harris
Danny Wright
Jose Conseco

Danny Wrong was horrible.
Career ERA of 5.65, Career WHIP of 1.53, 1.35 K/BB, and he could only give us 1 win in 2003 when we desperately needed something from our 5th spot. :angry:

I only recall him pitching one good game in 2002 (It was at home against Texas) but he some how got 14 wins which apparently was a good enough excuse to march him out on the mound even if he wasn't healthy in 03. :mad:

SoxFan64
09-27-2005, 05:08 PM
Personally all are trumped by Jerry Dybzinski in my lifetime. We would have won it all.

That bastard was running with his head DOWN. We get three hits in an inning and can't score because of his ALL-TIME bonehead move. I still see the TV shot into the Sox dugout after he was picked off. No one was near him.

IF he does not get picked off by (I think) Rick Dempsey we score and there are no extra innings; no Tito Landrum HR. We win game four. Game Five is at Comiskey and we have the BEST pitcher in baseball throwing for us. Case closed. After winning game 5 we would have faced the Phillies in the Series. And we would have rolled over them -- just like the O's did.

Dybzinski tops them all because of what he cost us. :angry::angry::angry: Ritchie and Jamie are cream puffs compare to ol' Jerry. Nothing was riding on the line when they messed up.

Maybe we should create a list of all-time Sox losers and create a Row of Shame. Heck try it by the decade (it is not like we are hurting for canidates) so we don't get the best of the past ten years.

SoxFan64
09-27-2005, 05:17 PM
Pat Kelly - the guy who would be intentionally walked so they could pick him off first base.

God I forgot about that move. That was a classic.

SoxFan64
09-27-2005, 05:21 PM
And of course...Claudell "Slept Here" Washington

Sox fans born after 1980 missed this "treasure". Wasn't Claudell on the team that wore the shorts? His outfield play (or non-play) merits its own thread. :dunno:

SoxFan64
09-27-2005, 05:26 PM
Everybody is forgetting about Hank Allen, brother of Dick. He had a roster spot only because it was in his brother's contract for awhile.

:worship:Another winner.

As soon as he was vested with ML baseball and could get his pension -- he gone.

nordhagen
09-27-2005, 05:43 PM
Sox fans born after 1980 missed this "treasure". Wasn't Claudell on the team that wore the shorts? His outfield play (or non-play) merits its own thread. :dunno:

He missed the shorts (1976) as he meandered into town slowly after he was traded for Bobby Bonds two months into the 1978 season. I was also there the night he hit 3 home runs in 1979.

SoxFan64
09-27-2005, 05:47 PM
At least someone remembers the Veeck years.
Remember when they traded Jim Sundberg (?) because they thought Lamar Johsnon was their future 1st baseman?

Jim Spencer. Sundberg was a C with TX, Cubs, Brewers and Royals.

:yup: I remember when Veeck announced the trade of Spencer to the Yanks. I forget who we got for him but Veeck said LaMar would get 30 HRs (back when 30 was what is now 45 HRs). LaMar went from 18 HRs in pt DH to full time 1B and hit 8 dingers. Average dropped by 30 and Slug went from 500 to 370

kitekrazy
09-27-2005, 06:02 PM
Another disappointment to me was that midget Harry Chappas. Hell, he made a S.I. cover. All I wanted him to be is another Freddie Patek, but I came to see he was no Freddie Patek, just a little squirt who people could root for, but never could cut it with the big boys.

Definitetly. We use to see ground balls go over his head.

kitekrazy
09-27-2005, 06:18 PM
Sox fans born after 1980 missed this "treasure". Wasn't Claudell on the team that wore the shorts? His outfield play (or non-play) merits its own thread. :dunno:

I think he was an All Star his rookie year for the Astros.

kitekrazy
09-27-2005, 06:25 PM
Biggest disappointment - Navarro
Biggest jerk - David Wells

I recall one rainy spring night a few years back when Navarro was pitching. As usual, he was getting shelled. Several fans were posting Navarro's acheivements with placards along the facade in the upper deck. No, they didn't read "K-K-K-K-K" but rather something like "BB-HPB-2B-WP-SB-HR".

And although some of the following players weren't considered regulars for a full season, their performance in a Sox uniform deserves to be recognized:

Jim Brezeale, Gale Hopkins, John Mathias, Cotton Nash, Mike Eden, Tim Nordbrook, Jerry Royster, Luis Alvarado, Bee Bee Richard, Harry Chappas, Eddie Leon, Rich McKinney, Ed Spezio, Syd O'Brien, Dick Kenworthy, Junior Moore, Lorenzo Gray, Kevin Bell, Rick Reichardt, Nyls Nyman, Rusty Kuntz, Rich Coggins, Royle Stillman, Chuck Brinkman, Tom Egan, Pete Varney, Hank Allen, Ron Blomberg, Rich "Tex" Wortham, Neil Allen, Cisco Carlos, Vincente Romo, Gerry Janeski, Skip Pitlock, Juan Agusto, Pablo Torreablo

Several guys who DO NOT belong in this category, in my opinion: Scott Fletcher, Alan Bannister, Wayne Nordhagen

I enjoyed reading this one. You seem to have quite a memory of former Sox players. I do recognize many from this list.

But Nordhagen was the dumbest player I have watched. Behind the plate he would forget there were men on. I remember him playing the OF and running the ball in after 1 out with men on base thinking it was 3 outs.
Plus he did some mop up relieving when the Sox were blown out. He wasn't that bad at it.

As much as people hate the Reinsdorf regime, I don't miss the Veeck years. But some of the great talent that came later was the result of Bill putting his money in the farm system.

Risk
09-27-2005, 07:11 PM
That bastard was running with his head DOWN. We get three hits in an inning and can't score because of his ALL-TIME bonehead move. I still see the TV shot into the Sox dugout after he was picked off. No one was near him.

IF he does not get picked off by (I think) Rick Dempsey we score and there are no extra innings; no Tito Landrum HR. We win game four. Game Five is at Comiskey and we have the BEST pitcher in baseball throwing for us. Case closed. After winning game 5 we would have faced the Phillies in the Series. And we would have rolled over them -- just like the O's did.

Dybzinski tops them all because of what he cost us. :angry::angry::angry: Ritchie and Jamie are cream puffs compare to ol' Jerry. Nothing was riding on the line when they messed up.

Maybe we should create a list of all-time Sox losers and create a Row of Shame. Heck try it by the decade (it is not like we are hurting for canidates) so we don't get the best of the past ten years.

Funny you should mention Dybzinski. A few months ago while I was napping I had a repressed childhood memory of my father going completely bat **** crazy after Dybzinski was picked off. I mean, seeing one's father who is normally mild-mannered go absolutely Chernobyl and cursing a person's very existence was sort of a freaky thing for a six year old to witness. I thought the dude was going to pick up the tv (and mind you it was one of those giant counsel tv's from the late 1970's) and shot put it out the side of the house.

My mom even had to sit outside the house for an hour afterwards. Freakin creepy. Up until then I wondered why I couldn't even talk about the 83' Winning Ugly Team w/o pops grumbling "Jerry Mother ******* Dybzinski." Now I remember why.

Risk

soxfan1965
09-27-2005, 07:27 PM
I think this question could be "worse player for the money". I thought of the 1970 team, but they weren't paid that much. And the Sox had many bad teams with bad players throughout the early years who many of us don't know about, or were severely underpaid by Comiskey. So that leads me to what everyone already said: Julio Cruz (whose contract brought Reinsdorf 'indigestion') and Jamie Navarro (who gave all Sox fans acid reflux for those four non-cut years). I hate to see Borchard mentioned because he took a risk, worked very hard, gave up his starting quarterback job at Stanford...his falling short of his potential wasn't due to lack of trying. Baseball has a way of really humbling you!

Railsplitter
09-27-2005, 07:37 PM
I'd put Navarro down on the worst list. He gave up two roof top homers in Tiger Stadium, but he never pitched for the Tigers!

silenceofthehawk
09-27-2005, 07:48 PM
Wow, where do I start?

eastchicagosoxfan
09-27-2005, 09:12 PM
Unless he demonstrates otherwise, Geoff Blum.

Banix12
09-27-2005, 09:25 PM
Unless he demonstrates otherwise, Geoff Blum.

I nominated Geoff Blum on page 2 of this thread and I stand by it.

veeter
09-27-2005, 09:31 PM
New addition GOEFF BLUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

pczarapa
09-27-2005, 09:32 PM
Blum for sure

mr_genius
09-27-2005, 09:32 PM
BLUM

nice pick up, Ken Williams

you're a frickin genius

santo=dorf
09-27-2005, 10:05 PM
Unless he demonstrates otherwise, Geoff Blum.
The slide into 3rd at Minnesota???

Talk about "knee-jerk." :rolleyes:

Optipessimism
09-27-2005, 10:19 PM
Blum doesn't deserve to be anywhere near most of the players named in this thread. As many others have noted, he was acquired to be a fill-in defensive replacement who can play 6 positions in the field. IMO, a guy like that is pretty valuable to a team. He was NEVER supposed to do anything with the bat. Why Ozzie put him in there over a guy like Timo for instance who WAS acquired to come up with a big hit is anyone's guess.

Lip Man 1
09-27-2005, 11:22 PM
Chuck Brinkman.

Lip

SoxFan64
09-27-2005, 11:24 PM
As much as people hate the Reinsdorf regime, I don't miss the Veeck years. But some of the great talent that came later was the result of Bill putting his money in the farm system.

Veeck had money?? I am having a hard time naming one person (besides Baines) that we developed on his watch?

I may not like the Reinsdork regime but we have at least a better record and a better farm system than we did with Veeck or the Allen (sp?) years.

Domeshot17
09-28-2005, 01:56 AM
Because of what he cost us

CLEARLY IT IS BILLY KOCH

I know this man was insane in Oakland, but We dealt Foulke for Koch, and Foulke is still one of the best closers in the big leagues ( I know he is hurt this year) but Koch was absolutely horrendous, and he was suppose to be the savior.

This leads to something I have feared since day 1
Does anyone else think Bobby Jenks may be the next Billy Koch, in 4 years have thrown so hard his arm is completely blown out, and when he starts throwin 93 hes batting practice. I love Bobby, but I have this fear because of how bad Koch Imploded

IronFisk
09-28-2005, 02:40 AM
Since the Sox have been around for 100+ years, quite a few years to pick from. So, just going with present company, I'd say John Kruk, but my TOP pick is (drum roll)...

Juilo Rameriez

Although, I'm not really sure to nominate him since Manuel was the real culprit here for keeping in the lineup so often. Mr. Instant Out.

SouthSide_HitMen
09-28-2005, 02:44 AM
Veeck had money?? I am having a hard time naming one person (besides Baines) that we developed on his watch?

I may not like the Reinsdork regime but we have at least a better record and a better farm system than we did with Veeck or the Allen (sp?) years.

Actually that is wrong. Veeck was here for only 5 seasons after stopping the attempted move to Seattle (pre Reinsdorf's threatened move to Tampa). The free agent rule changed within days after he purchased the club and he was under capitalized. He inherited a pathetic team and should not be lumped in with the Allyn debacle.

However he (and his GM Roland Hemond) acquired the core of the 1983 starting rotation:

Richard Dotson (Acquired via trade in 1977 - Age 18)
LaMaar Hoyt (Acquired via trade in 1977 - Age 22)
Britt Burns (Drafted in 1978 - 3rd Round)

And a couple of key hitters:
Harold Baines (Drafted in 1977 - 1st Round)
Ron Kittle (Free Agent signed 1978)

Reinsdorf has owned the team for 25 years, Veeck for 2 1/2 years in his first regime (before leaving to take care of his leg which was amputated due to his World War II war wounds for crying out loud and his 1959 team was the last to make the World Series) and 5 years the second (before being forced to sell - he saved the White Sox from becoming the Seattle whatevers).

WSI - Where the Bill Veeck bashing never stops.

CPditka
09-28-2005, 03:12 AM
In my eyes, the Worst Sox player of all times defies numbers, he/they are cheaters... Jose for sure take your roids back to the surreal life, and sammy dont get me started.... Also if you imply "cheating" and you even dare throw shoeless joe in there, you might have structured chaos on your hands, in possibly in your life.

I stand by Jose for very personal reasons.
White Sox ARE NOT CHEATERS.



I havent read the whole thread: but my list goes something like this in no order...

Jaime Navarro
Sammy Sosa
Jose Canseco
Mike Jackson
and as much of a serious team player he was.. Billy Koch.

SoxFan64
09-28-2005, 12:09 PM
CLEARLY IT IS BILLY KOCH...I know this man was insane in Oakland, but We dealt Foulke for Koch, and Foulke is still one of the best closers in the big leagues ( I know he is hurt this year) but Koch was absolutely horrendous, and he was suppose to be the savior.

We also got Cotts in that trade. So don't mix your arguments.

You will get zero argument on Koch being a disaster. Maybe he is the worst player but to bring up the trade as a straight one-for-one trade is faulty.

Rag on Koch if you like; but we are still getting some benefit from the trade. And with Foulke's knee trouble maybe Koch AND Foulke will be the answers to a future triva question when we discuss the success of Cotts, who looks better with each outing.

deck27
09-28-2005, 12:17 PM
The worst player ever is whoever is hitting third in this current lineup.

HebrewHammer
09-28-2005, 12:21 PM
As long as Geoff Blum has a roster spot everyone else is a distant second.

SoxFan64
09-28-2005, 12:41 PM
...The free agent rule changed within days after he (Veeck) purchased the club and he was under capitalized. He inherited a pathetic team and should not be lumped in with the Allyn debacle...However he (and his GM Roland Hemond) acquired the core of the 1983 starting rotation: Richard Dotson, LaMaar Hoyt, Britt Burns; And a couple of key hitters: Harold Baines and Ron Kittle...he (Veeck) saved the White Sox from becoming the Seattle whatevers)...WSI - Where the Bill Veeck bashing never stops.

Whose bashing Veeck? I am not. I only pointed out that he did not develop that many players. I could only remember Baines but you are correct in pointing out the other successes we had under him and Hemond. But I was not bashing. Tell me where I said something awful about Veeck?

Ok, I put him in the same sentence (using the conjunctive "and") with the Allyn boys. But I had no intention of bashing Veeck. If using "and" while mentioning the Allyns and Veeck in the same sentence then I apologize.

I agree with you that Veeck saved us from being moved to Seattle. :smile: I agree he was undercapitalized from the get go because of the Messersmith ruling. It was the reason for the "rent a player" method he and Hemond designed.

But as much as like Veeck, he was in the deep end with no way of getting out -- short of selling.

Hemond was the glue from the Veeck years to the Reinsdorf years. But having new owners gave us enough money to sign Fisk and Luzinski, and host of others to the '83 team that we both remember fondly. We needed both to make 83 the success it was.

As I mentioned earlier I am not a big Reinsdorf fan but he has brought some plusses to the team -- a better team that wins more consistently than they did from the late 60's to 1980; we develop more of our own players; we seem to make (generally) better trades than we did in the Allyn years (note no mention of Veeck in the past phrase); and for what its worth we have at least a few divisional flags flying because of Reinsdorf.

Now I have not mentioned the minuses of Reinsdorf but that would be to highjack my own comments. As well as have this message go on for about 50 pages...

My point was the Reinsdorf reigme has brought us enough money to at least be able to develop and sign more players than the Veeck or Allyn brothers. Whoops used another conjunctive linking Veeck and the Allyns. Sorry..:(:

Again I loved the Veeck years; I wished he had enough money to play with the big boys.

HitMan, your handle reminds me of a wonderfully wasted summer at Comiskey watching the '77 edition. So I would never bash the guy who gave me such pleasure and Veeck did as much as anyone to save the Sox from moving out of town.

Lip Man 1
09-28-2005, 01:15 PM
South Side Hit Men: You need to read Mike Veeck's interview with WSI. Bill sold the team in 1961 because he was diagnosed with a brain tumor. By all accounts, including those from doctors, he wasn't expected to live long and had gone back to Maryland to settle his affairs.

Lip

SouthSide_HitMen
09-28-2005, 01:40 PM
Whose bashing Veeck? I am not. I only pointed out that he did not develop that many players. I could only remember Baines but you are correct in pointing out the other successes we had under him and Hemond. But I was not bashing.... HitMan, your handle reminds me of a wonderfully wasted summer at Comiskey watching the '77 edition. So I would never bash the guy who gave me such pleasure and Veeck did as much as anyone to save the Sox from moving out of town.

There have been several posts I have read throughout my time here (from others) bashing Veeck. My point stated Veeck shouldn't be lumped in with Allyn which you agree with so I will leave it at that. Hemond did a very good job building the team under Veeck and Reinsdorf and we were lucky to have him.

Veeck cared about the fans and wanted them to enjoy the game and wanted to field a winning team more than any owner in my lifetime living in Chicago in any sport. He saved the team in 1975 and did the right thing again and sold the team to better fund it (though after the 1983 team we were pathetic on the field until the 1990s).

1977 was not a wasted summer unless you mean it to be a time when you were immersed watching White Sox baseball and did little else which could be considered "productive" (work, etc.).

2005 has turned out to be just as pleasurable (and my production has suffered as much if not more :smile: )

Go White Sox!!!

SouthSide_HitMen
09-28-2005, 01:42 PM
South Side Hit Men: You need to read Mike Veeck's interview with WSI. Bill sold the team in 1961 because he was diagnosed with a brain tumor. By all accounts, including those from doctors, he wasn't expected to live long and had gone back to Maryland to settle his affairs.

Lip

Yes you are correct though he did have several operations with his war injured leg as well and I do recall what you brought up and apologize for my mistake. We were lucky he survived 24 years longer than was expected.

Hangar18
09-28-2005, 01:59 PM
We also got Cotts in that trade. So don't mix your arguments.
Rag on Koch if you like; but we are still getting some benefit from the trade. And with Foulke's knee trouble maybe Koch AND Foulke will be the answers to a future triva question when we discuss the success of Cotts, who looks better with each outing.


Good point ............ I always forget that the KOCH disaster did allow us to get Neil Cotts, who has been a saviour out of the bullpen along with Politte for most of the year.

JoeCowley
09-29-2005, 04:41 PM
Let's not forget Cory Snyder, Phil Bradley, the second coming of Jose DeLeon, Steve Sax, and anybody who was used as a 5th Starter in 2003. But none of the sucked as bad and Jamie Navarro.

SummerteethPacer
10-01-2005, 05:02 PM
Harry Chappis
Ricky Seilheimer
Casey Parsons
Phil Bradley---He was just so bad, and we needed that Juice Cruz spark so badly in 1990, and he did nothing.

RadioheadRocks
10-01-2005, 07:57 PM
It was Jim Spencer who was let loose for Lamar Johnson.

And don't forget Junior Moore, Bill Nahorodny, Pablo Torrealba and Mike Colbern


OMG Pablo Torrealba... we used to call him "the Wild Man from Borneo" since every other pitch from him was wild.

Thanks for making me regurgitate my dinner!

SOXfnNlansing
10-01-2005, 08:36 PM
:tomatoaward :tomatoaward

A. Cavatica
10-01-2005, 09:54 PM
"Worst Sox ever" is obviously any of a hundred guys who went 0-for-1 or faced 1 batter and put him on. Those guys generally don't matter in the grand scheme of things. If you want to go by the most negative impact per length of service, Jose Paniagua is my nominee.

A more interesting question is who was the worst player ever to be considered a regular for at least one season. (We can quibble over who was a regular, but these charts have it about right: http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/pos.shtml and http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/staff.shtml.)

Some standouts from my era:

2004 - Borchard
2003 - White
2002 - Ritchie
2001/03 - Wright
2000/02 - Johnson
1999 - Caruso, Snyder
1997/98/99 - Navarro
1997 - Snopek
1996 - Lewis
1995 - Bere
1992 - Sax
1989/90 - Martinez
1983 - Dybzinski
1980 - Kimm, Bell, Cruz, Kravec (wow, what a bad team!)
1976 - Jefferson
1975 - Nyman

Wsoxmike59
10-01-2005, 09:59 PM
Veeck had money?? I am having a hard time naming one person (besides Baines) that we developed on his watch?
.

Veeck did snag LaMaar Hoyt in the Bucky Dent deal. Richard Dotson in the Brian Downing deal and Britt Burns was drafted on his watch. Throw in the F.A. signing of Floyd "the barber" Bannister by the Sunshine Boys (Jerry & Eddie) and you have the makings of the 1983 Winning Ugly Western Division Champions Starting staff.

Bill Veeck acquired 3/4 of that staff for us.

Son of Nordhagen
10-02-2005, 12:27 AM
Todd Cruz

TornLabrum
10-02-2005, 12:49 AM
I have a double nomination:

Sydney Lloyd O'Brien (initials SLOB) and Kevin Bell.

Tragg
10-02-2005, 12:55 AM
I have a double nomination:

Sydney Lloyd O'Brien (initials SLOB)

He would be my choice.

ClaudelSleptHere
10-02-2005, 02:39 AM
Billy Koch really sucked for us, but does anyone here actually remember being upset when we got rid of Foulke? I know he has had productive years since he left the Sox, but the last year he was with the Sox was worse than his season this year...............and he was healthy!

14konerko
10-02-2005, 03:20 AM
brian daubach gets my vote, he was not good

Tragg
10-02-2005, 10:33 AM
Billy Koch really sucked for us, but does anyone here actually remember being upset when we got rid of Foulke? I know he has had productive years since he left the Sox, but the last year he was with the Sox was worse than his season this year...............and he was healthy!
He blew a couple of saves because of balls hit off the cement in the twinkie dome. Then Manuel benched him. He wasn't bad. That said, given that Manuel refused to let him close anymore, and if you hold williams blameless for not knowing that koch was spent, then williams got a cheaper closer signed for a longer term, in return for a pitcher who was no longer closing for us. Also, we got the far better end in the two other pitchers switched.

Wsoxmike59
10-02-2005, 10:46 AM
Jaime Navarro

Billy Koch

Mike Caruso

Hank Allen

Tom Egan

Bee Bee Richards

Julio Cruz in 1984-'86 after turf toe set in (when he batted left handed.....totally useless)

Tekk
10-02-2005, 01:01 PM
I agree with alot of the players mentioned, but what about Rob Dibble? He didn't put in a full season for the sox, but wow..He was painful to watch. Not the worst, but he deserves to be mentioned.

14.3 Innings
27 Walks
10 Earned Runs given up
5 Wild Pitches
3 Hit Batters

rbeze09
10-03-2005, 03:35 PM
90's
chris snopek
mike caruso
carlos castillo
jason dellaero----look this one up .091 BA

the list goes on and on
but the 2005 sox are goin all the way so it doesnt matter

PennStater98r
10-03-2005, 04:29 PM
:shammy Don't forget - my personality alone could corner me as the worst player to ever wear a White Sox uniform.

whitesoxfan1986
10-03-2005, 05:36 PM
I have been a sox fan my whole life, but have been hugely serious since 2000. my votes have to go to Todd Ritchie(that trade makes me scratch my head, I mean we wouldn't have had our 5 hole problem if we had Kip Wells) and Billy Koch (every time he went on the mound I knew we were going to lose)

CluelessJoe1919
10-03-2005, 10:01 PM
Alan Bannister.

No Range
No Stick
No Speed
No Good.Alan Bannister the worst of them all?
The guy was pretty much an outfielder when he was asked to come in and play shortstop for the Sox in 77. He nicely held up the No.2 spot behind Ralph Garr in what was one of the best Sox lineups of all time...

Sure, he wasn't that much at short, but he was out of position...

This is the worst selection of one of the best threads I've seen on here...

I'll vote for Dan Wright as the pitcher and Chick Gandil as the everyday player (he totally cost the team a World Series). He nudges out Jerry Hairston.

jvoboogie
10-04-2005, 11:28 AM
this ones easy, John Kruk, now he's a baseball "expert"

TDog
10-04-2005, 12:01 PM
I have been a sox fan my whole life, but have been hugely serious since 2000. my votes have to go to Todd Ritchie(that trade makes me scratch my head, I mean we wouldn't have had our 5 hole problem if we had Kip Wells) and Billy Koch (every time he went on the mound I knew we were going to lose)

I was at a game in May when Todd Ritchie shut down the A's and it looked like he had turned it around. I was also at the home opener when Koch struck out the side in the ninth inning for a save.

The problem with picking anyone with such a high profile as the worst-ever Sox player is that the standards for such a distinction are incredibly low. Scott Ruffcorn, who never recorded a major league win, certainly would be more worthy a pick than Ritchie. Floyd Weaver, who won only one game for the Sox, getting hit hard in middle relief in a game the Sox won in Boston at the end of May 1970 by a 22-13 score, may be a better pick than Ruffcorn.

My gut reaction to such a question, for more than three decades, would be Ed Stroud.

DocWolf
10-05-2005, 03:31 PM
Who could ever forget this infamous Cubune headline? My vote goes to Bee Bee Richard.

wilburaga
10-05-2005, 03:57 PM
Speaking of memorable White Sox sports headlines, how about when the Sox had a big series in Boston but had to leave their star lefthander home with an injury...

'Sox Head to Boston without Peters'





W

Mr. White Sox
10-05-2005, 04:17 PM
I've got to go with:

Sammy Sosa
D'Angelo Jimenez (complete and utter lack of effort)

sullythered
10-05-2005, 04:27 PM
Most consistently horrible, a total jerk, and my personal most hated player of all time Jaime "Nine-Run" Navarro.

Two consecutive seasons of over 150 innings pitched w/ a 6+ ERA. So frustrating.

chopperjc
10-05-2005, 04:35 PM
:shammy Don't forget - my personality alone could corner me as the worst player to ever wear a White Sox uniform.

I am not sure he was the worst player but as a human being..........

gbergman
10-05-2005, 05:38 PM
jamie navarro:(:

Dick Allen
10-05-2005, 06:54 PM
Alan Bannister the worst of them all?
The guy was pretty much an outfielder when he was asked to come in and play shortstop for the Sox in 77. He nicely held up the No.2 spot behind Ralph Garr in what was one of the best Sox lineups of all time...

Sure, he wasn't that much at short, but he was out of position...

This is the worst selection of one of the best threads I've seen on here...

I'll vote for Dan Wright as the pitcher and Chick Gandil as the everyday player (he totally cost the team a World Series). He nudges out Jerry Hairston.Jerry Hairston was a very valuable pinch hitter.

CluelessJoe1919
10-05-2005, 07:42 PM
Jerry Hairston was a very valuable pinch hitter.I couldn't stand Hairston, could you?
He had a lot of pinch-hit at bats, an example of how bad many of those teams were that he played on.
I remember him coming to the plate as a pinch-hitter, much to the chagrin of Harry Caray. After striking out on three pitches, Caray said, "You could have bet the mortgage on that."

chicago cuz
10-08-2005, 11:12 PM
Speaking of memorable White Sox sports headlines, how about when the Sox had a big series in Boston but had to leave their star lefthander home with an injury...

'Sox Head to Boston without Peters'





WThe best SOX headline was in the Sun Times many years ago: ( 52712 jam Comiskey sox wip Cubs 11 to1) Banks hit a home run for the cubs

RadioheadRocks
10-09-2005, 07:37 PM
And then there's always Jon Adkins... he of the "16th Inning Fiasco" vs. the Twins... god that sucked ass!!!

Hoffdaddydmb
10-16-2005, 01:10 PM
I've got to go with:

Sammy Sosa
D'Angelo Jimenez (complete and utter lack of effort)

I HATED D'Angelo Jimenez, his perforamance on the field was entirely forgettable to the point I forgot about him till you mentioned. I also hated Koch. My friends and I used to joke that you needed "Koch Insurance" (4 run lead) before you brought him in.

VenturaSoxFan23
10-16-2005, 02:12 PM
There's a difference between bad players and just flat out hating.

Jamie Navarro...The less said about him, the better.
Todd Ritchie...The sad thing was, he wasn't a #5, he started out as a #3.
Steve Sux...I mean, Sax. A guy I loved with the Dodgers, he did nothing for us.
Arnie Munoz. That shelling by the Expos last June cemented him on the list.
Claudell Washington...Where every fly ball was an adventure.
Mark Salas...Wasn't exactly "Mr. Dependable" behind the plate.
Carlos Martinez...We could have dug up Pie Traynor and he'd do a better job. Pretty much 3rd baseman by default.
Kenny Williams...I think he got playing time because somebody was hurt. You'd hear his name and say, "Who?"
David Wells...Another guy I want to forget about.
Dan Pasqua...Home run or strikeout; more often than not, the latter.
Sammy Sosa...Not because I can't stand this guy, but his defense was awful. He loved to show off his arm by throwing a strike to home. Too bad there was a runner headed to third (nobody going home) at the time.

Now, if you want hate...Juan Disgusto, Salome Barojas made me wanna leave the room. It was going to get ugly out there.

TomBradley72
01-15-2006, 03:40 PM
From the 70's: Claude Osteen had a horrific year as a member of the rotation...7-16, 4.86 ERA...I was a kid....seemed like every time he pitched he was absolutely torched....but we kep trotting him out there.


p.s., will the poster who "hated" Claude Osteen take it back, please?:mad:


Hey...that was me. I guess I can't "hate" Claude...but every time my Dad took me to a game...there was Claude...and he's get completely torched. They had no one else to go to...so they kept trottting him out there all season. He had a pretty good career with the Dodgers...but by the time he go to us...there was nothing left. Ran into a similar dynamic about 25 years later with Danny Wright.

StockdaleForVeep
01-15-2006, 03:45 PM
navarro or christ singleton

Honorable mention to Mike Caruso's sophmore season

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/news/1999/06/24/twins_whitesox/t1_caruso_ap_01.jpg
"WHAT!?"

TomBradley72
01-15-2006, 04:44 PM
Bobby Howry. :cool:

HomeFish
01-15-2006, 05:53 PM
Jose Paniagua.

buehrle4cy05
01-15-2006, 06:06 PM
Brian Daubach gets a nomination from me.

32nd&Wallace
01-15-2006, 11:57 PM
There's a difference between bad players and just flat out hating.

Jamie Navarro...The less said about him, the better.
Todd Ritchie...The sad thing was, he wasn't a #5, he started out as a #3.
Steve Sux...I mean, Sax. A guy I loved with the Dodgers, he did nothing for us.
Arnie Munoz. That shelling by the Expos last June cemented him on the list.
Claudell Washington...Where every fly ball was an adventure.
Mark Salas...Wasn't exactly "Mr. Dependable" behind the plate.
Carlos Martinez...We could have dug up Pie Traynor and he'd do a better job. Pretty much 3rd baseman by default.
Kenny Williams...I think he got playing time because somebody was hurt. You'd hear his name and say, "Who?"
David Wells...Another guy I want to forget about.
Dan Pasqua...Home run or strikeout; more often than not, the latter.
Sammy Sosa...Not because I can't stand this guy, but his defense was awful. He loved to show off his arm by throwing a strike to home. Too bad there was a runner headed to third (nobody going home) at the time.

Now, if you want hate...Juan Disgusto, Salome Barojas made me wanna leave the room. It was going to get ugly out there.Ritche was a number 2

LEON PHELPS
01-20-2006, 09:21 AM
I've been following for quite a while, now it's time to jump into the blog pool....


This thread prompted me to start a similar thread on the St. Louis Cardinal fan site and we pulled some very interesting, mostly forgettable names best relegated to the dust bin of history.

One thing they all had in common is that they fell into one of four categories:

"He's the next (INSERT NAME OF GREAT HOFer HERE)"

"We traded (INSERT NAME OF DISCARDED FAN FAVORITE HERE) because (INSERT PHENOM NAME HERE) is the future"

"We signed (INSERT FAILED FREE AGENT HERE) because he is THE missing piece that will put us over the top."

"We acquired (INSERT NAME OF WASHED-UP/ OVERPRICED VET HERE) to give stability and leadership to the line-up."

chisox77
01-20-2006, 10:20 AM
Jack Parkman . . . his whiff against the Tribe's Rick Vaughn cost the White Sox the American Leage pennant in 1992.

:angry:

caracascat
01-25-2006, 03:24 PM
How could Lamar Johnson be 1st Base on the worst player list. The Lamer could hit! Dave Stegman was worse or Joe DeSa for that matter

bouldersox
01-25-2006, 08:21 PM
I think his name was BB Richards. If I recall Veeck traded away Bucky Dent in a cost saving stint, and projected that this kid would make everyone forget any previous SS the Sox had (Aparicio included). I think the guy qualifies because he was up the majority of the year.

Can you guys check me on this. Do I have my facts straight. This wasn't Allen Bannister was it?

filmnews
01-25-2006, 11:32 PM
Jamie Navarro

Handicaporowski
01-26-2006, 07:11 AM
Jaime Navarro first, Rusty Kuntz second

hold2dibber
01-26-2006, 08:56 AM
Personally all are trumped by Jerry Dybzinski in my lifetime. We would have won it all.

Hold two, Dybber!!!!

miker
01-26-2006, 11:04 AM
:bkoch:
"i was pretty bad too"
I am surprised "Real Bad Billy" took this long to come up, but Jaime Navarro still "wins" the prize on his pure arrogance and incredibly poor performances to back that arrogance up.

Chicken Dinner
01-26-2006, 12:21 PM
I am surprised "Real Bad Billy" took this long to come up, but Jaime Navarro still "wins" the prize on his pure arrogance and incredibly poor performances to back that arrogance up.

I hated Billy Goat Koch

MeteorsSox4367
01-26-2006, 02:07 PM
How 'bout...

1. Billy Koch (any questions?)
2. Carlos Castillo (and a jerk, as well)
3. Jaime Navarro (see #2)
4. D'Angelo Jimenez (just because)

JoeCrede4MVP06
01-29-2006, 06:12 PM
Scott Bloweneweis got blown apart every single time he pitched in 2004. I usually don't say this about a Sox player, but he's one guy who made me cringe every time I saw him in a Chicago uniform.

JimRivera
01-29-2006, 11:41 PM
:angry: I paid hard earned money to see THIS clown play? I am talkin' 'bout the infamous CLAUDELL WASHINGTON ! He was a real menace in the field. One nice, cloudy day, no sun in his eyes, he charges a high fly ball from right field and promptly retreats as the baseball lands a good 75 feet behind him! This was in the days of blow, and Claudell "was gettin' his share," true. :mad: I have finally forgiven the Dybber for his bonehead 1983 playoff mistake, but I still hate Tito Landrum !!! :angry:

Rudy Law
01-30-2006, 02:45 AM
Joe Borchard!!!! Ahhhh!!!!!!!

SoxxoS
01-30-2006, 10:55 AM
Speaking of Danny Wright, does anyone have any updates on his rehab and/or what/where he is. He always seemed like he tried hard and a decent guy, I hope he can get healthy...

russ99
02-02-2006, 12:17 PM
Geez, 6 months later and this still steams me. I stayed till the bitter end.

I hope Adkins is far, far away from the Sox when ST begins. After a few years go by he may attain near-Paniagua status.

Then again, being at Comiskey last year for the AJ homer vs. the Dodgers and the ALCS shellacking of the Carmines plus a world championship more than makes up for it. :smile:

I'll give "Joltin Joe" Borchard one more season to possibly atone before adding him to this list.

And then there's always Jon Adkins... he of the "16th Inning Fiasco" vs. the Twins... god that sucked ass!!!

chisoxfanatic
02-02-2006, 05:04 PM
:jaime
"I stink! I ****ing stink!"