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longshot7
09-23-2005, 02:43 PM
Well, it's clear that Jenks and Marte don't have what it takes to close games out at this point, and with Hermanson still aching, what's the alternative?

How about El Duque for closer?

3 outs - he can get those. And it's also clear he shouldn't be starting at any time soon. Whaddya think?

jshanahanjr
09-23-2005, 02:48 PM
How about El Duque for closer?

I think he should at least be used in the bullpen. He knows what he is doing. Whether he can do it is not known.

daveeym
09-23-2005, 02:54 PM
Marte I'll give you, but not Jenks. Let them get their heads out of their asses behind Jenks and see what he can do.

longshot7
09-23-2005, 03:04 PM
Bobby's blown 3 games in a row. Now is not the time to "give him a chance."

BainesHOF
09-23-2005, 03:06 PM
Jenks has no confidence in throwing his curveball for fear of a wild pitch with runners on base. He's hittable when he's only throwing his fastball.

Ol' No. 2
09-23-2005, 03:06 PM
Well, it's clear that Jenks and Marte don't have what it takes to close games out at this point, and with Hermanson still aching, what's the alternative?

How about El Duque for closer?

3 outs - he can get those. And it's also clear he shouldn't be starting at any time soon. Whaddya think?Have you seen his first innings the last few games? And this is the guy you want to close?

:bundy

Brewski
09-23-2005, 03:09 PM
Bobby's fastball does seem pretty straight and hittable, especially when it is 95 instead of 100 MPH. That was Koch's problem too, IIRC. There doesn't seem to be a solution for the disintegration of a once formidable bullpen. (or starting staff either)

Lip Man 1
09-23-2005, 03:10 PM
Cotts and Politte. Ozzie needs to stop with that 'matchup' crap. Those guys are perfectly capable of pitching to more then one or two hitters, twice a week.

Oh I forgot, they'll get worn down! LOL. The can rest all winter if the Sox piss this away.

Lip

BeviBall!
09-23-2005, 03:12 PM
Bobby's blown 3 games in a row. Now is not the time to "give him a chance."

Common ailment in those three games... the defense took the inning off.

Ol' No. 2
09-23-2005, 03:13 PM
Cotts and Politte. Ozzie needs to stop with that 'matchup' crap. Those guys are perfectly capable of pitching to more then one or two hitters, twice a week.

Oh I forgot, they'll get worn down! LOL. The can rest all winter if the Sox piss this away.

LipThe small number of recent late-inning meltdowns notwithstanding, the Sox have the second best bullpen ERA in the AL. Second-guessing Ozzie's use of the pen seems just a mite foolish. It's pretty hard to argue with success.

enurb
09-23-2005, 03:16 PM
Common ailment in those three games... the defense took the inning off.

Agreed.

Maybe Jenks should come with his own "personal CF", just like some pitchers have "personal catchers".

Boone just beat him the first game. The other two were the fault of Rowand.

Rowand will rebound. He's a scrapper.

Fungo
09-23-2005, 03:35 PM
Rowand will rebound. He's a scrapper.

Why'd you put the "s" on there?

kittle42
09-23-2005, 03:43 PM
Cotts and Politte. Ozzie needs to stop with that 'matchup' crap.

THANK YOU.

Ozzie with his "Marte can only pitch to LH hitters even though he is better against righties" = Dusty with his "Remlinger could only pitch to LH hitters even though he is better against righties."

This town is full of imbeciles.

Lip Man 1
09-23-2005, 04:09 PM
No.2:

For what it's worth the Sox have now blown 13 games where they took a lead into the 7th inning or later and lost the game. Three of those have come since September 8th.

I don't know how many of those can be hung on the starters vs. the bullpen and I don't know how this compares to the rest of the league. If memory serves I count 9 games charged to the bullpen.

Simply putting the number out on the table.

Lip

Ol' No. 2
09-23-2005, 04:25 PM
No.2:

For what it's worth the Sox have now blown 13 games where they took a lead into the 7th inning or later and lost the game. Three of those have come since September 8th.

I don't know how many of those can be hung on the starters vs. the bullpen and I don't know how this compares to the rest of the league. If memory serves I count 9 games charged to the bullpen.

Simply putting the number out on the table.

LipAnd how many of those were due to trying to take advantage of a lefty-righty matchup vs. just someone getting beat? Other teams' bullpens blow games, too. You're trying to infer something with no facts to back it up.

TaylorStSox
09-23-2005, 05:11 PM
This is all the result of a season of extremely tight games. The burden has been on 4 relief pitchers all year. 3 of those 4 are worn out. Politte's stuff isn't the same. He can't top 90 and he's relying on his slider. Jenks hasn't pitched this much in pressure situations. It's his first year of relieving and he's been called on more than his body can handle. Marte's toast. Cotts has been used wrong all year. Hermanson's hanging on by a thread due to injury.

We're just one impact reliever short right now. Garcia's outing in the first game of the Cleveland series really put this pen in a bind. He had to go longer than he did. We've played a ton of games in the last month. That pen is gased.

LauraJ14
09-23-2005, 05:14 PM
The small number of recent late-inning meltdowns notwithstanding, the Sox have the second best bullpen ERA in the AL. Second-guessing Ozzie's use of the pen seems just a mite foolish. It's pretty hard to argue with success.


While that sounds nice, how many inherited runners have they allowed to score? Just asking because those runs are charged to the starters making the relievers ERA look better.

Ol' No. 2
09-23-2005, 05:35 PM
While that sounds nice, how many inherited runners have they allowed to score? Just asking because those runs are charged to the starters making the relievers ERA look better.The only one who's taken a beating by relievers letting in his inherited runners is Freddy Garcia, and even he hasn't got too much to complain about. You can find the numbers here (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/sp_pen_support2005.php). All the others are in negative territory (the bullpen has helped them more than hurt them) or are pretty neutral.