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cheeses_h_rice
09-23-2005, 12:10 AM
Here is my list of guys I'd rather not see back on our roster next year, due to crappy performance and/or excessive salary requirements:


Damaso Marte
El Duque
Scott Podsednik
Aaron Rowand
Jermaine Dye
Jeff Blum
Willie Harris
Paul Konerko
Carl Everett
Yes, I want an entirely new outfield next year. Call me crazy.

SOXintheBURGH
09-23-2005, 12:11 AM
*shrugs*


Why not?

:gulp: <- Out of misery.

samram
09-23-2005, 12:13 AM
Almost the exact list I posted in the gamethread as candidates to be gone. I just hope KW can find someone who's buying the fast-fading Pods hype.

Pods for Carl Crawford?:redneck

mantis1212
09-23-2005, 12:14 AM
I agree with the Marte suggestion. Marte SUCKS. totally worthless at this point. Ozzie should have stayed with his gut and sent Marte packing

ND_Sox_Fan
09-23-2005, 12:17 AM
The only player in that list that is worth keeping is Pods, but in a Timo role. Use him to pinch-run late and spot-start. Keep his legs fresh for the whole season and he could be valuable down the stretch.

ScottsdaleSoxFan
09-23-2005, 12:18 AM
I want Overbay, McCarthy, Contreras, Uribe and Crede. I want everyone else let go and the team will just be those 5 and AAA call-ups. Maybe they will have more heart than this team.:angry:

TheOldRoman
09-23-2005, 12:19 AM
I will call you crazy, and ridiculous.
We need Podsednik. He is hitting very good lately, but his groin injury is really limiting him on the basepaths. No matter what anyone has said, he is not healthy. He wont be healthy until he rests for several months. By your reasoning, we should run off any player who gets injured? I don't want that Thomas bum back, either. And if you want to get rid of Aaron because he made 2 bad plays in the outfield, you are not too smart.

Now, here is my list:
Konerko
Everett
Timo
Marte
El Duque
Willie

If you are discussing who we should bring in, well, that is a lot more fun. It is pretty sad that a fan of a first place team is going to bed tonight dreaming off offseason signings, and pretending like this collapse (if it continues) won't decimate the franchise for years to come.

cheeses_h_rice
09-23-2005, 12:23 AM
I will call you crazy, and ridiculous.
We need Podsednik. He is hitting very good lately, but his groin injury is really limiting him on the basepaths. No matter what anyone has said, he is not healthy. He wont be healthy until he rests for several months. By your reasoning, we should run off any player who gets injured? I don't want that Thomas bum back, either. And if you want to get rid of Aaron because he made 2 bad plays in the outfield, you are not too smart.

Now, here is my list:
Konerko
Everett
Timo
Marte
El Duque
Willie

If you are discussing who we should bring in, well, that is a lot more fun. It is pretty sad that a fan of a first place team is going to bed tonight dreaming off offseason signings, and pretending like this collapse (if it continues) won't decimate the franchise for years to come.

Pods: 0 HRs, 24 RBIs. That's a huge reason I don't want him around anymore. I realize he's been hurt, but his injury is exactly the kind of injury that can perpetually hobble big first-step base stealers, so I think it's going to be recurring. Medicore defense, no power, huge strikeout ability...it isn't worth it, IMO.

Aaron is one of the guys on that list that I think *could* be a huge player someday, but in 2005 he's dropped off a lot as far as offense, and his erratic play in CF is a potential liability. I love Aaron's attitude, so he's the one guy in the OF I could live with keeping.

Bluegrass1SOXFAN
09-23-2005, 12:24 AM
I agree with all on this list except for Konerko and Rowand. I know some will argue this, but Konerko DOES try every at bat. I know he's had lots of Lolipops, with runners on base (but who the heck hasn't on this team these days?!) He's not up there to just go through the motions, like some seem to, and he is the only slugger on this team. All he needs is someone to protect him in the 3 and 5 spot. He's had good numbers, considering the lack of bats around him for the most part of the year.

As for Rowand, he would give his left testical to keep this thing going deep into October. This guy is one of the few who really does play with intensity and heart. Omitting the ball he misread the other night, defensively, you aren't going to just grab someone who can cover the ground he does, without paying a very, very lofty free-agent price!
WE NEED MORE PCT. OFFENSE THIS OFFSEASON...by PCT> i mean .300 + hitters and this especially applies to when runners are in scoring position!!!

kaufsox
09-23-2005, 12:24 AM
Here is my list of guys I'd rather not see back on our roster next year, due to crappy performance and/or excessive salary requirements:


Damaso Marte
El Duque
Scott Podsednik
Aaron Rowand
Jermaine Dye
Jeff Blum
Willie Harris
Paul Konerko
Carl Everett
Yes, I want an entirely new outfield next year. Call me crazy.

Your crazy :smile: For the most part I agree with you, but I don't give up Rowand, Konerko or Dye. Pods is a tough one. If he isn't stealing bases, he's nothing. His defense is ok, not great, no power AT ALL, and if he isn't a threat on the bases the whole complexion of the team is altered. As far as salary demands, I could care less. Brooks Boyer has been telling anyone who will listen that this is the largest attendance since 1994, fifth all-time etc. Great, spend some of that on players. The only time I cheer saving money is in my own bank account. If I wanted to cheer fiscal responsibility, I'd go to bank. or Oakland. :wink:

Jjav829
09-23-2005, 12:25 AM
Here is my list of guys I'd rather not see back on our roster next year, due to crappy performance and/or excessive salary requirements:

Damaso Marte
El Duque
Scott Podsednik
Aaron Rowand
Jermaine Dye
Jeff Blum
Willie Harris
Paul Konerko
Carl Everett
Yes, I want an entirely new outfield next year. Call me crazy.

You're not crazy. This is a very light-hitting outfield and it needs to be improved. That means either Pods or Rowand has to go. Pods gives us a decent leadoff hitter. Rowand provides more defensively. This team needs to be upgraded offensively. Third base would be an area where we could upgrade, but there really aren't any good 3B available. The catcher and second base positions are fine. We could possibly upgrade at short, but otherwise that leaves the outfield as the position where we could make the biggest upgrade.

BNLSox
09-23-2005, 12:25 AM
The one thing I can say for Cheeses is at least he's interested in next year. Some of us are thinking about cutting our losses and falling out of love with baseball.

WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS TO US WHITE SOX? SAY IT AIN'T SO!

Hendu
09-23-2005, 12:26 AM
This seriously pains me to say because I love the guy and want him to finish his career with the Sox, but it's time to buy out Frank's option and let him walk. The fortunes of the team seem to have been riding on Frank's fragile legs the past few years and it's time to go in a different direction.

kaufsox
09-23-2005, 12:27 AM
I want Overbay, McCarthy, Contreras, Uribe and Crede. I want everyone else let go and the team will just be those 5 and AAA call-ups. Maybe they will have more heart than this team.:angry:

sigh. wasn't Ozzie supposed to do something for that heart problem?

daveeym
09-23-2005, 12:28 AM
Here is my list of guys I'd rather not see back on our roster next year, due to crappy performance and/or excessive salary requirements:

Damaso Marte
El Duque
Scott Podsednik
Aaron Rowand
Jermaine Dye
Jeff Blum
Willie Harris
Paul Konerko
Carl Everett
Yes, I want an entirely new outfield next year. Call me crazy. You're crazy but not for that reason but for the reason that there's NO WAY to replace all of that in one off season. 3 of those position players will have to be playing for this team to improve whatsoever.

Optipessimism
09-23-2005, 12:30 AM
Here is my list of guys I'd rather not see back on our roster next year, due to crappy performance and/or excessive salary requirements:

Damaso Marte
El Duque
Scott Podsednik
Aaron Rowand
Jermaine Dye
Jeff Blum
Willie Harris
Paul Konerko
Carl Everett
Yes, I want an entirely new outfield next year. Call me crazy.

I want Dye back in RF or 1B and I want Everett on the bench as a pinch hitter/rest guy. I also would like to hold onto Blum since he can play just about anywhere. That would allow us to get a couple of guys who may not be so flexible but would provide us with some pop off the bench. The rest of your list sounds just about right, although I'd like to see if FLA would be willing to call Pierre a scrub and ship him to us for Pods so long as we take on that contract. I think he's just having a down year and will soon be one of the best leadoff guys around once again.

Anderson takes Rowand's spot (hopefully) and Willie, Rowand, and Duque should provide us with at least one serviceable player somewhere in a weak FA market.

Marte can go to hell, and he can take the bus there too. I don't even care if we get anything for him or if the sum bitch is even in baseball anymore.

Chips
09-23-2005, 12:32 AM
I do not want to see Rowand or Konerko or Podsednik go. The rest of them, let them walk or whatever.

ND_Sox_Fan
09-23-2005, 12:32 AM
This seriously pains me to say because I love the guy and want him to finish his career with the Sox, but it's time to buy out Frank's option and let him walk. The fortunes of the team seem to have been riding on Frank's fragile legs the past few years and it's time to go in a different direction.

The fact that we have lived and died by his legs makes the point of the impact that he still has on a lineup.

If we can have him back with an incentive heavy deal, why not?

A. Cavatica
09-23-2005, 12:34 AM
The entire offense except Iguchi; the entire bench except Ozuna and Widger. Hernandez, Garcia if he doesn't snap out of it, Marte. The entire coaching staff except Don Cooper. The entire front office. The owner. And there are a couple of beer vendors I'm none too fond of.

TheOldRoman
09-23-2005, 12:34 AM
Pods: 0 HRs, 24 RBIs. That's a huge reason I don't want him around anymore. I realize he's been hurt, but his injury is exactly the kind of injury that can perpetually hobble big first-step base stealers, so I think it's going to be recurring. Medicore defense, no power, huge strikeout ability...it isn't worth it, IMO.

Aaron is one of the guys on that list that I think *could* be a huge player someday, but in 2005 he's dropped off a lot as far as offense, and his erratic play in CF is a potential liability. I love Aaron's attitude, so he's the one guy in the OF I could live with keeping.
That is a bunch of crap. We are all pissed that the Sox have given up on the season, but dont take it out on Scott. If you started this thread after a win, he probably wouldn't be on this list. Scott is one of the best leadoff men in baseball. We don't need him to hit homers, we need him to hit and get on base. A leadoff man usually has very few RBIs because the ass end of the lineup is hitting in front of him. If Uribe and Crede were getting on base at a .400 clip apiece, Scott would have a buttload of RBIs. Yes, we would all rather have Ichiro than Podsednik, but since we cant have him, we would be wise to stick with what we've got. Scott does have a lot of strikeouts, but the huge majority of them are looking. That can be fixed, it isn't like he doesnt make contact.

cheeses_h_rice
09-23-2005, 12:34 AM
You're crazy but not for that reason but for the reason that there's NO WAY to replace all of that in one off season. 3 of those position players will have to be playing for this team to improve whatsoever.

Yeah, my list was not based in reality. Chances are the Sox will still have on outfield consisting of Pods/Rowand/Dye, and maybe even PK at first if his salary demands aren't exorbitant.

Dan H
09-23-2005, 12:37 AM
I would like to see big changes for next year which start by getting rid of Crazy Carl, Dye and a few others. But will this team actually go out and get some front line players? Or will it sign another pitcher with a sore shoulder? Or how about an outfielder whose career year was five years ago?

peeonwrigley
09-23-2005, 12:39 AM
As much as I hate him, open up the pursebook and buy me Johnny Damon. Damon as a leadoff, Pods as a #2/#8 hitter is all good to me. Rowand just hasn't shown the consistency needed in center. He'll be a nice pick up for the Pirates or Royals or something.

If you can upgrade the power in right field do it, otherwise JD will have to do. I like his arm out there, anyways.

I'll keep Paulie around, whatever, there's not much better available. Iguchi should be better in his second full season in MLB. Uribe and Crede aren't spectacular, but have shown me some guts and get the job done on the important side of the infield.

Need to have a new DH as a contingency for Frank. Let Carl ride pine, he might be valuable as a timely PH, or to DH vs lefties.

If you need to trade Garcia to acquire a big gun for offense and it nets you bullpen help, do it.

daveeym
09-23-2005, 12:39 AM
The fact that we have lived and died by his legs makes the point of the impact that he still has on a lineup.

If we can have him back with an incentive heavy deal, why not? The fact is we haven't won anything with him either. Sorry due to his injuries he has to go if money becomes any sort of issue.

samram
09-23-2005, 12:40 AM
You're not crazy. This is a very light-hitting outfield and it needs to be improved. That means either Pods or Rowand has to go. Pods gives us a decent leadoff hitter. Rowand provides more defensively. This team needs to be upgraded offensively. Third base would be an area where we could upgrade, but there really aren't any good 3B available. The catcher and second base positions are fine. We could possibly upgrade at short, but otherwise that leaves the outfield as the position where we could make the biggest upgrade.

No doubt the outfield is the spot for the Sox to concentrate their efforts. Johnny Damon in LF would make Pods excessively expendable. I think a side effect of having a leadoff guy who can actually get past first base with his bat is it would allow Iguchi, assuming he would still be in the 2 hole, to be more agressive instead of shaping his at-bats around what Pods does.

Argalarga
09-23-2005, 12:40 AM
I was thinking about this today in regards to the lineup next year: how is it possible to have a team with 91 wins and not one single leadoff homerun. That was the great thing about Rickey Henderson. Sure he'd steal 100 bases, but he was also a thread to hit one out at the start of the game. Pods can't do that.

Something to think about during the post-collapse purge.

santo=dorf
09-23-2005, 12:40 AM
What's with the Dye bashing, because he didn't come through with the bases loaded? :?:

BeviBall!
09-23-2005, 12:40 AM
Has anyone mentioned Guillen? Everett is a no-brainer as is Marte and Duque. Forget all this... let's sign a GD left-handed bat in the off season. Something that should've been done a year ago.

samram
09-23-2005, 12:42 AM
What's with the Dye bashing, because he didn't come through with the bases loaded? :?:

Probably. I've been a Dye supporter all year, and while I don't think he's a no-brainer to keep, I wouldn't have a problem with his being back out there in 2006.

peeonwrigley
09-23-2005, 12:44 AM
I was thinking about this today in regards to the lineup next year: how is it possible to have a team with 91 wins and not one single leadoff homerun. That was the great thing about Rickey Henderson. Sure he'd steal 100 bases, but he was also a thread to hit one out at the start of the game. Pods can't do that.

Something to think about during the post-collapse purge.

I think he had 18 a year ago. The Sox don't want him doing that, and as such I believe he has adjusted his swing.

daveeym
09-23-2005, 12:44 AM
Yeah, my list was not based in reality. Chances are the Sox will still have on outfield consisting of Pods/Rowand/Dye, and maybe even PK at first if his salary demands aren't exorbitant. I said in another thread, if they finish off this collapse certain players will never recover and I think Rowand is one of them. If it happens, Anderson's in next year and I think Rowand's gone. Konerko stays under your terms....and hell I don't even know where to begin. It really goes from adding pieces to being a rebuilding effort next year in the field. Hell even the bullpen becomes shaky due to injuries, mental midgets and departures suffered this year.

DSpivack
09-23-2005, 12:48 AM
You're not crazy. This is a very light-hitting outfield and it needs to be improved. That means either Pods or Rowand has to go. Pods gives us a decent leadoff hitter. Rowand provides more defensively. This team needs to be upgraded offensively. Third base would be an area where we could upgrade, but there really aren't any good 3B available. The catcher and second base positions are fine. We could possibly upgrade at short, but otherwise that leaves the outfield as the position where we could make the biggest upgrade.

You think Brian Anderson is ready to play next year? Rowand seems more suited to a corner spot, so that could be 2/3 of the OF. Maybe we could pick up another OF and that wouldn't be bad.

Also, does anyone know the contract situations for Podsednik, Everett, and Dye?

peeonwrigley
09-23-2005, 12:50 AM
You think Brian Anderson is ready to play next year? Rowand seems more suited to a corner spot, so that could be 2/3 of the OF. Maybe we could pick up another OF and that wouldn't be bad.

Also, does anyone know the contract situations for Podsednik, Everett, and Dye?

If Anderson is stepping in for Rowand you either need a lead off man or somebody better than .260 and 15 HR in the corners.

cheeses_h_rice
09-23-2005, 12:50 AM
What's with the Dye bashing, because he didn't come through with the bases loaded? :?:

In my opinion, Dye hasn't been a clutch hitter for most of this year. He's got a cannon for an arm, I'll give you that, but his stats are not that great for a right fielder.

peeonwrigley
09-23-2005, 12:53 AM
In my opinion, Dye hasn't been a clutch hitter for most of this year. He's got a cannon for an arm, I'll give you that, but his stats are not that great for a right fielder.

He's got a ton of clutch pop outs. Any chance of getting C Lee back for right field?

SOXfnNlansing
09-23-2005, 12:55 AM
if you fall to pieces now cheeses, how will you be able to show your face after our World Series victory? You gotta believe brother!

Optipessimism
09-23-2005, 12:57 AM
In my opinion, Dye hasn't been a clutch hitter for most of this year. He's got a cannon for an arm, I'll give you that, but his stats are not that great for a right fielder.

His contract is, and his stats are just fine for that. You also have to consider that he's hitting between AJ and Rowand usually, which is not exactly much protection.

We really need more offense but I think the areas where we most need an offensive upgrade are CF, 3B, and DH. Anderson takes Rowand's spot without the need for a trade, but DH and 3B we'll have to trade for unless KW gets Randa or Mueller and puts Crede on the bench.

Optipessimism
09-23-2005, 01:00 AM
He's got a ton of clutch pop outs. Any chance of getting C Lee back for right field?

Yuck. No CLEE in the OF please, but I think if he worked at 1B he would be able to play there. It doesn't matter though because the BrewCrew are either going to sign him to an extension or trade him mid season next year and the package that it would take to get him would be far more expensive than the package we got for him.

daveeym
09-23-2005, 01:00 AM
His contract is, and his stats are just fine for that. You also have to consider that he's hitting between AJ and Rowand usually, which is not exactly much protection.

We really need more offense but I think the areas where we most need an offensive upgrade are CF, 3B, and DH. Anderson takes Rowand's spot without the need for a trade, but DH and 3B we'll have to trade for unless KW gets Randa or Mueller and puts Crede on the bench. Other than prospects, the sad thing is that Crede is probably our most valuable commodity for trade bait right now as well.

santo=dorf
09-23-2005, 01:02 AM
In my opinion, Dye hasn't been a clutch hitter for most of this year. He's got a cannon for an arm, I'll give you that, but his stats are not that great for a right fielder.
Which stats, offensive?

His SLG%, OPS, and HR's are 3rd for American league RF's behind some guys named Gary Sheffield and Vladimir Guerrero .

He has a 1.357 OPS with the bases loaded, but tonight was just one of those nights were nothing went right.

Typical Chicago "what have you done for me lately" attitude. :rolleyes:

Optipessimism
09-23-2005, 01:05 AM
Other than prospects, the sad thing is that Crede is probably our most valuable commodity for trade bait right now as well.

Rowand, Marte, Duque, Willie, Borchard, Gload and Bajenaru all are either major leaguers or guys who need to get a shot in the bigs and none of them have spots if Anderson becomes the CF next year. I know that's not saying much, but I think we could put a decent package together for a couple good players.

daveeym
09-23-2005, 01:05 AM
Which stats, offensive?

His SLG%, OPS, and HR's are 3rd for American league RF's behind some guys named Gary Sheffield and Vladimir Guerrero .

He has a 1.357 OPS with the bases loaded, but tonight was just one of those nights were nothing went right.

Typical Chicago "what have you done for me lately" attitude. :rolleyes: Hate to tell you, but other than for your mommy and daddy, that's the attitude of life and not just Chicago.

jabrch
09-23-2005, 01:10 AM
Pods is hitting .290 and doesn't make a ton of $. That's just sillyness to talk about dumping him. Griping about his HR/RBI is falling into the trap the media set. I can't believe people here would bite into that...

jabrch
09-23-2005, 01:11 AM
Which stats, offensive?

His SLG%, OPS, and HR's are 3rd for American league RF's behind some guys named Gary Sheffield and Vladimir Guerrero .



Not to mention that he gives us this performance for much less $$$ than 1/2 the RFs in MLB.

Sillyness...

cheeses_h_rice
09-23-2005, 01:11 AM
Pods is hitting .290 and doesn't make a ton of $. That's just sillyness to talk about dumping him. Griping about his HR/RBI is falling into the trap the media set. I can't believe people here would bite into that...

Sell high and buy low, or so the axiom goes.

Optipessimism
09-23-2005, 01:13 AM
He has a 1.357 OPS with the bases loaded, but tonight was just one of those nights were nothing went right.

Not to hijack the thread, but I think it's the attitude of the entire team. Dye got a pitch that should have won us the game right away, but stood there looking. You have to go up to the dish ready to swing in that situation but he didn't have that mentality. I was PRAYING they would have put Anderson or Borchard in to PH there but went with Dye instead. I don't think Jermaine thought he had a chance going up there, just like I think all the regulars feel right now. For that reason only I'd like to see some of the younger guys start for once, just to freshen things up. Make the regulars sit on the bench and watch the youngsters fighting to gain attention lay it all out on the field.

daveeym
09-23-2005, 01:16 AM
Not to hijack the thread, but I think it's the attitude of the entire team. Dye got a pitch that should have won us the game right away, but stood there looking. You have to go up to the dish ready to swing in that situation but he didn't have that mentality. I was PRAYING they would have put Anderson or Borchard in to PH there but went with Dye instead. I don't think Jermaine thought he had a chance going up there, just like I think all the regulars feel right now. For that reason only I'd like to see some of the younger guys start for once, just to freshen things up. Make the regulars sit on the bench and watch the youngsters fighting to gain attention lay it all out on the field. As someone else pointed out its entirely possible he had the take sign. The way the coaching staff and players are ****ting themselves it's entirely possible. He was getting behind every guy 2-0.

Optipessimism
09-23-2005, 01:16 AM
Pods is hitting .290 and doesn't make a ton of $. That's just sillyness to talk about dumping him. Griping about his HR/RBI is falling into the trap the media set. I can't believe people here would bite into that...

I'd only like to see Pods upgraded for a better leadoff man if possible, but that's about it. Otherwise he has too much speed in LF to give up.

Optipessimism
09-23-2005, 01:19 AM
As someone else pointed out its entirely possible he had the take sign. The way the coaching staff and players are ****ting themselves it's entirely possible. He was getting behind every guy 2-0.

Wow, I didn't even think of that (maybe because that would make no sense?) I really hope he didn't have the take sign, but if he did then that is the problem with this team right there in wanting the opposition to give you the victory instead of being aggressive and taking it from them.

noquitter
09-23-2005, 01:24 AM
Hate to tell you, but other than for your mommy and daddy, that's the attitude of life and not just Chicago.That does not make thinking with no regard for data or perspective any less idiotic now, does it? :rolleyes:

kitekrazy
09-23-2005, 01:25 AM
The entire offense except Iguchi; the entire bench except Ozuna and Widger. Hernandez, Garcia if he doesn't snap out of it, Marte. The entire coaching staff except Don Cooper. The entire front office. The owner. And there are a couple of beer vendors I'm none too fond of.

Why should Don Cooper get a free pass. This is one guy I tend to question more as a good pitching coach.
The Sox staff seems to pitch well the first half and tanks the 2nd half. How many times have I ehard fans complain lately that the Sox staff pitches outside all the time. I've noticed that since 2003.

Don Cooper is overrated.

If Greg Walker wasn't a former player don't you think he would be fired by now?

slavko
09-23-2005, 01:30 AM
This team, with this personnel, will finish 4th in the division next year behind three teams with good homegrown talent. If we blow it up and start to use some of our own minor leaguers, we will finish 4th. I'd hate to see ownership not have to spend all the money it made this year as it has promised, but it may be time to go with youth and supplement it with some bought talent. This core is as likely to get the job done next year as the '70 Cubs were.

kevingrt
09-23-2005, 01:31 AM
WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS TO US WHITE SOX? SAY IT AIN'T SO!

Quote of the year right there...

My list: Carl, PK, Marte, Duque, Willie, Pods (maybe) we need OF power

Optipessimism
09-23-2005, 01:37 AM
This team, with this personnel, will finish 4th in the division next year behind three teams with good homegrown talent. If we blow it up and start to use some of our own minor leaguers, we will finish 4th. I'd hate to see ownership not have to spend all the money it made this year as it has promised, but it may be time to go with youth and supplement it with some bought talent. This core is as likely to get the job done next year as the '70 Cubs were.

***?

Yeah we need to improve, but not that much.

IMO, the core of our team is this:
Buehrle, Garland, Garcia, Contreras, McCarthy, Politte, Cotts, Jenks, Uribe, Iguchi, Pods, Dye, AJ, Anderson, Hermanson

That's a pretty good core. Regardless of how this year ends, I think we will all have to agree that the 2004 offseason and 2005 season was a HUGE step in the right direction as far as making this team a serious championship contender, by far in better shape than any Sox teams since the mid 90's. We have the solid defense and speed up the middle, strong starting pitching, and a strong back end of the bullpen. If anything, we need to make a few more moves and sign the guys I mentioned above to contract extensions.

tstrike2000
09-23-2005, 01:39 AM
Why should Don Cooper get a free pass. This is one guy I tend to question more as a good pitching coach.
The Sox staff seems to pitch well the first half and tanks the 2nd half. How many times have I ehard fans complain lately that the Sox staff pitches outside all the time. I've noticed that since 2003.

Don Cooper is overrated.

If Greg Walker wasn't a former player don't you think he would be fired by now?

I don't think Don Cooper is overrated at all. Most of our problems in the 2nd half have been offensively. Across the board, Buehrle, Garcia, and Garland all have ERA'S below 4.00 with two below 3.50, Contreras has been stellar and the bullpen was second in ERA to the Indians. On the other hand, Greg Walker hasn't done a stellar job no. It wouldn't bother me if they got someone else.

SABRSox
09-23-2005, 01:46 AM
I don't think Don Cooper is overrated at all. Most of our problems in the 2nd half have been offensively. Across the board, Buehrle, Garcia, and Garland all have ERA'S below 4.00 with two below 3.50, Contreras has been stellar and the bullpen was second in ERA to the Indians. On the other hand, Greg Walker hasn't done a stellar job no. It wouldn't bother me if they got someone else.

I'm still convinced that Ozzie has overused the starting pitching, and the lack of offense from this team has done them no favors. Having to go out and pitch perfect or lose every single game is exhausting.

They must get rid of Greg Walker, though.

Optipessimism
09-23-2005, 01:53 AM
I don't think Don Cooper is overrated at all. Most of our problems in the 2nd half have been offensively. Across the board, Buehrle, Garcia, and Garland all have ERA'S below 4.00 with two below 3.50, Contreras has been stellar and the bullpen was second in ERA to the Indians. On the other hand, Greg Walker hasn't done a stellar job no. It wouldn't bother me if they got someone else.

I totally agree. Just look at what has happened under his watch:

-Buehrle and Hermanson have both improved
-Cotts and Politte have become top relivers
-Garland has gone from mediocre to a top of the rotation starter
-Contreras looks like he has made the turn from bust to ace
-Loaiza found a career and had a terrific season

Negatives:
Marte, Koch, Shingo in '05

Walker OTOH could be a fall guy, although his projects of Willie Harris and Joe Crede may never turn out. IMO, you can only do so much with what you have. If you stick Manny Ramirez, Eric Chavez, and a healthy Big Frank in this lineup Greg Walker is the greatest hitting coach that ever lived in the minds of a lot of people.

ma-gaga
09-23-2005, 02:00 AM
If you want to replace an outfielder, you can probably sign/trade for Jacque Jones relatively cheap. He's probably on the order of a $7MM a year player, 30 years old, plays good defense, but has a terrible arm and is susceptible to lefties.

But he has a nice swing with decent power. And is a good "team guy". He'll be too expensive for the Twins if they don't trade Hunter.

:cool:

beckett21
09-23-2005, 02:13 AM
If you want to replace an outfielder, you can probably sign/trade for Jacque Jones relatively cheap. He's probably on the order of a $7MM a year player, 30 years old, plays good defense, but has a terrible arm and is susceptible to lefties.

But he has a nice swing with decent power. And is a good "team guy". He'll be too expensive for the Twins if they don't trade Hunter.

:cool:

His stats are padded from playing against the Sox. If he's with us, his numbers will suffer irreparable damage. :redneck

Gotta begrudgingly tip my cap to him tonight. It kills me to type that. :(:

MUsoxfan
09-23-2005, 02:27 AM
Cut them all. None of them can hit. Start from scratch

DaleJRFan
09-23-2005, 02:42 AM
Gotta begrudgingly tip my cap to him tonight. It kills me to type that. :(:

That was a quality fastball, not a hanger like the one he got from Garcia. He earned that HR.

peeonwrigley
09-23-2005, 02:59 AM
That was a quality fastball, not a hanger like the one he got from Garcia. He earned that HR.

Was watching the game w/ my girlfriend tonight and noted that this guy killed us in the Freddie game, and usually saves his HRs against the Sox for (crack of bat... gone)....... situations like this.

I'd take him in a heartbeat if he's available if nothing else than to get him off the Twins.

#1 on my wishlist is Damon, though. Spend it. Get him.

SouthSide_HitMen
09-23-2005, 03:17 AM
I would like Dye, Rowand, Anderson and Podsednik to be in the OF. We need money to lock up Garland and add a couple of pitchers to our bullpen. I think Crede stays. We need to also sign AJ and make a decision on Paul. If Paul walks we need a power hitter to take his place and it should be a lefty. Thomas is also a decision based on his health and demands - I wouldn't overpay.

dolphinron
09-23-2005, 03:51 AM
I hope we get rid of jermaine dye, I can't count how many games he has cost us now. Including tonight's. I can not stand him. All he cares about is doing his little cribs show on MTV. Well if you do a show like that, you think you would be a big time star and help your team a little. Nope not Jermaine, he just keeps costing us game after game. Just keep driving all you cool cars Jermaine, whatever.

DaleJRFan
09-23-2005, 04:41 AM
I hope we get rid of jermaine dye, I can't count how many games he has cost us now. Including tonight's. I can not stand him. All he cares about is doing his little cribs show on MTV. Well if you do a show like that, you think you would be a big time star and help your team a little. Nope not Jermaine, he just keeps costing us game after game. Just keep driving all you cool cars Jermaine, whatever.

:?: WOW.

Last time I checked, Dye was a part of a 25 player team, playing a TEAM sport. I also specifically remember another player making an out with the bases loaded shortly after Dye had done the same. I also remember that the inning following Dye's bases-loaded popup, the Sox stranded two more runners. I seem to recall another Sox outfielder run backwards towards the warning track on a popup.

If you can find a major league rightfielder who has the skills Dye has, that COULD come here in a trade, or would sign here during FA (who isn't Ken Griffey Jr.), let me know, please.

Every position player on this team with the exception of Crede (how long will it last???) has been absolutely awful the past 3 weeks. Want to clear the clubhouse of them too?

:gulp: take a sip and chill, man. :redneck

dolphinron
09-23-2005, 04:53 AM
Yeah, whatever,

If you can find another player in the league that hasn't had a sacrifice bunt since 1999 besides Jermaine Dye, Let me know......

putherawaywet
09-23-2005, 05:09 AM
The first person to get off this team is Pods. If you add his runs and rbi together - you still don't get 100. He has been caught 23 times. Feel free to subtract that from his avg/obp. LF is a run producing position and pods does not produce enough runs.

chitownhawkfan
09-23-2005, 05:11 AM
Pods is hitting .290 and doesn't make a ton of $. That's just sillyness to talk about dumping him. Griping about his HR/RBI is falling into the trap the media set. I can't believe people here would bite into that...

Which stats, offensive?

His SLG%, OPS, and HR's are 3rd for American league RF's behind some guys named Gary Sheffield and Vladimir Guerrero .




Not to mention that he gives us this performance for much less $$$ than 1/2 the RFs in MLB.

Sillyness...

Thank you for interjecting some sense into this argument. Lets not all jump the shark, I know our lead is quickly shrinking, but we are still in first place. Dye has been teriffic, especially at the price we are paying. Scotty Pods even if he isnt stealing bases is still hitting almost .300. Rowand made a few bad plays, how many clutch hits and web gems has he come through with? I am going to have to avoid this site until the playoffs are over.

CLR01
09-23-2005, 05:52 AM
:?: WOW.

Last time I checked, Dye was a part of a 25 player team, playing a TEAM sport. I also specifically remember another player making an out with the bases loaded shortly after Dye had done the same. I also remember that the inning following Dye's bases-loaded popup, the Sox stranded two more runners. I seem to recall another Sox outfielder run backwards towards the warning track on a popup.

If you can find a major league rightfielder who has the skills Dye has, that COULD come here in a trade, or would sign here during FA (who isn't Ken Griffey Jr.), let me know, please.

Every position player on this team with the exception of Crede (how long will it last???) has been absolutely awful the past 3 weeks. Want to clear the clubhouse of them too?

:gulp: take a sip and chill, man. :redneck


Don't even waste your time. You would be better off talking to a wall.

DaleJRFan
09-23-2005, 06:59 AM
If you can find another player in the league that hasn't had a sacrifice bunt since 1999 besides Jermaine Dye, Let me know......

Gladly. Here are a few "quality right fielders" who make a ****load more than Jermaine Dye:

Vladimir Guerrero has ZERO sac bunts over his 10 major league seasons. STATS (http://losangeles.angels.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/individual_stats_player.jsp?c_id=ana&playerID=115223&section1=1&section2=1&statSet2=1&section3=1&statSet3=1&statSet1=2)

Gary Sheffield hasn't had a sac bunt since 1991. STATS (http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/individual_stats_player.jsp?c_id=nyy&playerID=122111&section1=1&section2=1&statSet2=1&section3=1&statSet3=1&statSet1=2)

Shawn Green hasn't had a sac bunt since 1998. He has totalled 2 in his 13 major league seasons. STATS (http://arizona.diamondbacks.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/individual_stats_player.jsp?c_id=ari&playerID=115094&section1=1&section2=1&statSet2=1&section3=1&statSet3=1&statSet1=2)

hose
09-23-2005, 07:30 AM
Gladly. Here are a few "quality right fielders" who make a ****load more than Jermaine Dye:

Vladimir Guerrero has ZERO sac bunts over his 10 major league seasons. STATS (http://losangeles.angels.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/individual_stats_player.jsp?c_id=ana&playerID=115223&section1=1&section2=1&statSet2=1&section3=1&statSet3=1&statSet1=2)

Gary Sheffield hasn't had a sac bunt since 1991. STATS (http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/individual_stats_player.jsp?c_id=nyy&playerID=122111&section1=1&section2=1&statSet2=1&section3=1&statSet3=1&statSet1=2)

Shawn Green hasn't had a sac bunt since 1998. He has totalled 2 in his 13 major league seasons. STATS (http://arizona.diamondbacks.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/individual_stats_player.jsp?c_id=ari&playerID=115094&section1=1&section2=1&statSet2=1&section3=1&statSet3=1&statSet1=2)

http://scd.mm-b1.yimg.com/image/534559073 (http://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062857/K=black+knight/v=2/SID=w/TID=I055_76/l=II/R=31/SS=i/OID=7b33818aa765bbb4/SIG=1k0j5dlfg/EXP=1127561111/*-http%3A//images.search.yahoo.com/search/images/view?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fs earch%2Fimages%3Fp%3Dblack%2Bknight%26sm%3DYahoo%2 521%2BSearch%26toggle%3D1%26ei%3DUTF-8%26imgsz%3Dall%26fr%3DFP-tab-img-t%26b%3D21&h=350&w=331&imgcurl=www.actionfiguren-shop.com%2Fassets%2Fbig%2FBlack-Knight.jpg&imgurl=www.actionfiguren-shop.com%2Fassets%2Fbig%2FBlack-Knight.jpg&size=56.6kB&name=Black-Knight.jpg&rcurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.actionfiguren-shop.com%2Fpd41205010.htm%3FcategoryId%3D12&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.actionfiguren-shop.com%2Fpd41205010.htm%3FcategoryId%3D12&p=black+knight&type=jpeg&no=31&tt=21,473&ei=UTF-8)

"You got lucking , now name a right fielder that bats lefthanded , but throws right handed and has a sac bunt. Give me your best shot!!!"

TaylorStSox
09-23-2005, 07:32 AM
I'm renting this space for later on today. I have a ton to type, but I'll refrain due to my Bukowski-esque binger. It is 6:30 and I need sleep.

Frater Perdurabo
09-23-2005, 09:39 AM
The Sox remain in first place with 10 games to play. It really is too early to discuss what should happen for 2006, but since the question has been asked, I offer this to calm some of you dark clouds and get you to step back from the abyss.

One thing is certain: The White Sox as presently constructed are a 90+ win team. That's a fine foundation with which to start.

First, at least one of the Yankees or the Red Sox are guaranteed not to reach the World Series (and one of them likely will miss the postseason entirely), meaning one team (or perhaps both, plus the Mets) will overoffer for Konerko. Like it or not, he's gone. The Sox will not get into a bidding war for a player they have had ample opportunity (over a year) to re-sign at a lower price. If they wanted him back, they would have made him an offer long ago.

Dye is among the statistical leaders of A.L. right fielders. He's also signed for cheap next year. He could stay in right, or he has the athleticism, height and skills to move to first base if needed. He's also proven he can stay healthy for a full year (apart from spider bites!).

Podsednik got hurt this year. He doesn't have a history of leg injuries. It's a freak thing that will get better with rest. He's hitting .287 for goodness sake, and I'd guess it would be higher if Ozzie didn't rest him as often against lefties. (.333 in 93 ABs vs. lefties this year.) He's adequate in left.

Thomas will come back healthy. Reinsdorf wants him back. Frank wants to return. He'll sign a re-worked, incentive-laden deal and be a fantastic DH for, say, 400 ABs.

Iguchi will return. Crede and Uribe defense has been a big part of the success of Sox ground-ball pitchers. Each also provides decent, if streaky, power from the bottom of the order.

Anderson and Rowand will be starting in someone's outfield in 2006. One of them could be traded as part of a package to get a LHB to play right or first (if the Sox can't sign a suitable free agent). Or, it's possible that among the projected 1500 or so total ABs that will be available for Sox outfielders, Ozzie could divide them up equally among Rowand, Dye, Podsednik and Anderson.

Pierzynski will return. Widger may return.

Everett could be gone. In limited duty he can be valuable. As a full-time player, he's been exposed.

Perez, Ozuna, Blum and Harris have more value to the Sox than they could fetch in a trade. That doesn't mean all will return, but don't expect much back for any combination of them.

So, here's the 2006 opening day lineup:

Pods (LF), Iguchi (2B), Thomas (DH), Free Agent (1B/RF), Dye (RF/1B), AJ (C), Rowand/Anderson (CF), Uribe (SS), Crede (3B)

Garland, Buehrle, Garcia, Contreras and McCarthy will make up the rotation. El Duque is gone. Jenks, Politte and Cotts will be back. Hermanson and Vizcaino could be back. Marte is gone.

The Sox will need a left-handed power-hitter (who can either play first base or the outfield) and a left-handed bullpen pitcher. They have prospects and a surplus of major league-quality outfielders to package in a trade if they can't get one of these as a free agent. They probably don't have enough to get both, however.

wdelaney72
09-23-2005, 10:00 AM
Under no circumstances does Podsednick go. His speed and base stealing ability (WHEN HEALTHY) is too hard to come by. They may want to have him steal a bit less in the first half next year, so he's ready to go down the stretch when we really need him.

El duque didn't work out. The rest of the pitching staff is all under contract. I don't know if it's Don Cooper's fault or not, but SOMEBODY has got to figure out why Buehrle and Garcia can't throw strikes at home anymore.

If Frank Thomas comes back, there needs to be a more productive insurance policy. Carl Everett just doesn't cut it.

Frater is absolutely right, Konerko would have been re-signed A LONG TIME AGO if he was coming back. FOPK need to really start warming up to this concept, it will soon be a reality.
For the most part, AJ did a nice job with the pitching staff. Given that I don't know what other options there are, I hope they bring him back. I think Chris Widger is one of the best backup catchers I've ever seen. Tadahito stays and I can live with Uribe's streaky offense as long as he continues to play good D and bats at the bottom of the order. Joe Crede stays, as well. Outside of Pods, Rowand and Dye are all tradeable. No argument here.

Needless to say, Kenny will once again have A LOT of work to do. This team had some bright moments, but not quite enough to get it done.

MeteorsSox4367
09-23-2005, 10:09 AM
A few things I'd like to see happen on the Sox' roster in 2006:

1. Marte = Gone! Can't find the strike zone with Mapquest; has done nothing to earn the right to pitch the ninth inning of a close game. I just despise the thought of him ever pitching again for the Sox.

2. Rowand - For the love of God, shorten his swing! If I see him strike out one more time on a pitch down and away, I'm gonna puke!

3. Anderson - Play him somewhere in the outfield. I like this kid and I think he's going to play a huge part in the team's future.

4. Uribe - Quit swinging from his ass. Tell him that in some situations - such as Thursday night against Minnesota - that a basehit is just as effective in winning a game as a home run.

5. Blum - What the hell has he done since he was acquired? Nothing. He joins Robert Machado on the list of Sox/former Sox that I'd like to pitch against because I think I can get him out.

socko82
09-23-2005, 10:15 AM
On the whole idea of selling high... Jon Garland has been a sub .500 pitcher since late May...he's due a huge raise in arbitration and his value will never be higher .... He is the one guy who I think you could get the most for (Hank Blalock??? just dreaming)

Rowand is a guy who has gotten alot of love from the Eastern Seaboard Programing Network and is going to have value despite his extremely mediocre offensive numbers

Crede has had a great week, but he's a Scott Boras client, he's arbitration eligibile and he's a max .250 hitter who has way too many 5 for 50 streaks during the season

Let PK walk... last time he signed a big contract he followed it up with his worst year ever and he admitted at least part of it was him trying to live up to the contract...I expect the same thing from him next year

Marte is terrible and shot mentally but he's left handed so I think you could get something for him

El Duque and Dye are both signed for one more year and you aren't going to get anything for them.. Release El Duque and eat the contract..Dye you're stuck with

Philly is going to be looking to dump Thome...if he's healthy (big if) and you can get Philly to pick up part of the contract you can probably get him and actually be paying him less than it would cost you to resign Paulie... also a name I'd consider to play 3B would be Nomar, he's building a house in Chicago and it doesn't look like the flubs are going to invite him back...

daveeym
09-23-2005, 10:59 AM
On the whole idea of selling high... Jon Garland has been a sub .500 pitcher since late May...he's due a huge raise in arbitration and his value will never be higher .... He is the one guy who I think you could get the most for (Hank Blalock??? just dreaming) Woah easy killer, look at his ERA not his record this second half. This guy should be sitting on 20 wins, they've blown 4 or 5 gems by Garland in the second half.

harwar
09-23-2005, 11:03 AM
Woah easy killer, look at his ERA not his record this second half. This guy should be sitting on 20 wins, they've blown 4 or 5 gems by Garland in the second half.

Yea,Garland and MaCarthy will be fighting for the no.1 spot before long.
Pitching should be outstanding next year.

Clarkdog
09-23-2005, 11:10 AM
IMHO, here's the players that will be sent off next season.

Aaron Rowand: He's a quality ballplayer and I think has done a fine job in CF - he's got a reasonable contract that can be traded to something of value. Brian Anderson is ready he just needs his shot. Just like Aaron did.

Damaso Marte: The guy is an enigma. But he definately has the stuff. Someone will want to deal for him - he is a left handed reliever who can be nails tough. Just needs the right environment. I think ghe has struggled in Ozzie's "bullpen by matchup" strategy. He was best when his role was one of two set-up men for Foulke/Koch.

El Duque: With McCarthy's emergance, you just don't need him. Unless he goes to the bullpen and sets up.

Carl Everett: Love his energy but in the last year of deal, no need to resign. This is the bat that most needs to be replaced.

I don't think you'll see a much different squad. But the White Sox must get a superstar slugger to hit in front of Konerko - who must be resigned. Think how much more dangerous Konerko would be with Manny Ramirez hitting in front of him.

Sorry, Frank Thomas is not an option - his ability to stay healthy is simply too questionable at this point to risk an entire season on his coming back.

As for the rest I keep them. Podsednik did exactly what he was asked to do when the brought him in, same with Iguchi. I love AJs leadership and Widg is a suitable backup. Dye has been an adequate replcement for Maggs for a lot less $$$. Crede and Uribe appear to have figured out their approaches at the plate to bring about greater consistency.

Domeshot17
09-23-2005, 11:12 AM
Basically, if we want to win next year, Konerko has to be the everyday 1b or DH. 270-37-90 is very good production when you have no one to protect you in the lineup.

[Here is where everyone screams lyle overbay]

Overbay= Overrated. He had one big season, and now has come down to earth with less than impressive numbers, and power way below PK. If this was last year, and Delgado etc. was on the market maybe, but this thin, you need PK back.

Joe Crede makes me mad. Because since April I would say get his butt outta here, and then he does just enough that makes you wonder if he couldnt go 270 30 with his new swing next year, ala Jon Garland 5th year is the charm.

IMO-El Duque+Marte+ Dye/Rowand could probably get a solid hitter off a team lookin to move some money. I loved Rowands D until last week, but I think hes still got a great glove. But Brian Anderson has a chance to be big time, a chance to make us not plee for offense out of our outfield. I would not give up on Pods now, because I have read and heard a lot of speculation his abductor isnt 100%, it is something that needs a good 1-2 months of complete rest, and then rehab.

Dye to me is the easiest to move. He hits well enough in non pressure situations to put up good numbers, and some team with OF Problems **cough** Cubs **cough** might be willing to send over some talent for him.

One Idea I thought of, but I don't know how it would work, but can Uribe play the OF, did he when he was a super utility type? With his gun, put him in right field, DH Pods with Anderson in Left, and sign Furcal to play SS

Pods hits 1 with furcal 2 tadahito 3 and PK 4. Its the perfect 1-4 for Ozzie, and Tadahito might just hit 20-25 bombs

socko82
09-23-2005, 11:42 AM
Woah easy killer, look at his ERA not his record this second half. This guy should be sitting on 20 wins, they've blown 4 or 5 gems by Garland in the second half.

I agree with you, all I'm saying is you have to give something to get something and he is the one high priced player you could get the most for. I think Jon's had a great year but IMHO it's a career year and the gems you reference were against weak hitting teams like Detroit, Kansas City and Minnesota. Good lineups like Texas, Anaheim and Boston lit him up.

Frater Perdurabo
09-23-2005, 11:53 AM
"Not another Paulie thread."

Some people need to get a clue. Paulie is gone. The Sox aren't so patently stupid that they would steadfastly refuse to open negotiations earlier this season (or last offseason) with Konerko if they really planned on having him return in 2006. They are not going to pay him what the Yankees, Red Cubs and Mets will offer him.

Paulwny
09-23-2005, 11:58 AM
I don't think this team will start next season with 2 of's (Rowand , Pods) who can't hit at least 20hr's. KW along with many here expected at least 20hr's from Rowand. One of them will be gone.

santo=dorf
09-23-2005, 12:47 PM
Yeah, whatever,

If you can find another player in the league that hasn't had a sacrifice bunt since 1999 besides Jermaine Dye, Let me know......

Why the **** should he bunt if he is the 3rd best offensive RF in the the AL?
You said it.

:whatever:

Hangar18
09-23-2005, 12:51 PM
He's got a ton of clutch pop outs. Any chance of getting C Lee back for right field?


:reinsy
whoah whoah ............ everybody CHILL OUT! Are we forgetting how much C Lee is going to cost next year? We are saving a bunch of money with Jermaine here, come on everyone, lets not get fiscally irresponsible here sheesh

miker
09-23-2005, 01:15 PM
I guess this thread means were admitting defeat, turning over the roster and hoping we'll get better results next year...yeah, that's a plan! :o:

Brian26
09-23-2005, 01:35 PM
Why the **** should he bunt if he is the 3rd best offensive RF in the the AL?
You said it.

Ask Ozzie. Dye tried to lay down a bunt on Monday against the Tribe late in the game to move a guy over. I'm with you, though.

jshanahanjr
09-23-2005, 01:50 PM
Without Paulie they should just go back to the Kids Can Play Plan. I'm a Sox fan, so I expect that to be the case. Let's hope they can finish up strong and do something in the playoffs this year. It looks like Cleveland is the team to beat for the next few seasons.

Fake Chet Lemon
09-23-2005, 02:02 PM
Pods is hitting .290 and doesn't make a ton of $. That's just sillyness to talk about dumping him. ...


Glad I'm not the only one to remember that Reinsdorf owns the team. Pods won't go anywhere, he's making no money. The guy was amazing before he got hurt. Because he is hurt get rid of him? No way.

A .300 hitter who can draw a walk would be nice so our clean up hitter doesn't have to lead the world in solo-shot HRs. Tough guys to find though (how's that ankle Frank?!).

Fake Chet Lemon
09-23-2005, 02:05 PM
One Idea I thought of, but I don't know how it would work, but can Uribe play the OF, did he when he was a super utility type? With his gun, put him in right field, DH Pods with Anderson in Left, and sign Furcal to play SS

Pods hits 1 with furcal 2 tadahito 3 and PK 4. Its the perfect 1-4 for Ozzie, and Tadahito might just hit 20-25 bombs

I'd rather slide Uribe over to 3B. I hope we keep Paulie, but I would let Paulie go to sign Furcal in a heartbeat.

kaufsox
09-23-2005, 02:14 PM
... also a name I'd consider to play 3B would be Nomar, he's building a house in Chicago and it doesn't look like the flubs are going to invite him back...

I was actually thinking that same thought. I figure Nomar is going to be cheap and if he could be signed like AJ was this year I think he'd be worth it. I'd put in "Magglio" style clauses as well. If his groin, wrist and knee(?) are injured the Sox pay less. Anyway, Nomar has a lot to prove next year, why not prove it on the South Side. BTW I dig his wife:redface:

Banix12
09-23-2005, 10:07 PM
My list.

Timo, Blum, Everett, Thomas, Harris, Marte, Gload and El Duque.

I'm not ready to hand a starting job to Anderson yet, but I'll happily give him Timo's job and with it about 200 AB's next year.

Blum and Harris have outlived their usefulness. Replace them with a true utility man and a player on the bench who could leadoff in case of injury.

Timo is too expensive for what he does. Gload doesn't really have a spot where he can play regularly (the dude needs to learn 3rd base).

I love Thomas but we can't rely on his health anymore and even if we resign him we would have to bring in another guy just in case he gets injured. Only sign him if the sox can't find anybody else to bat in the 3 hole.

I think we're all pretty clear on Everett, Marte, and El Duque.

I don't see any major problems like many seem to. The only real upgrades I see that need to be made in the offseason are lefty reliever, a DH (preferably one with the skills to bat third), and the bench.

I will say though, it's really nice that we don't really have to worry about the starting pitching for a change.

DaleJRFan
09-24-2005, 04:03 AM
Gload doesn't really have a spot where he can play regularly (the dude needs to learn 3rd base).

Ummm... he's lefthanded.

Mohoney
09-24-2005, 04:46 AM
I was actually thinking that same thought. I figure Nomar is going to be cheap and if he could be signed like AJ was this year I think he'd be worth it. I'd put in "Magglio" style clauses as well. If his groin, wrist and knee(?) are injured the Sox pay less. Anyway, Nomar has a lot to prove next year, why not prove it on the South Side. BTW I dig his wife:redface:

If Nomar would agree to DH, then fine, but there is not a spot on the left side of our infield for him, IMO. He won't provide the defense of either Crede or Uribe.

Yes, he's an upgrade offensively to either guy, but SS is a position on the field where I NEED a plus defender. It wouldn't be fair to a pitching staff that isn't built on power arms and strikeouts to downgrade the defense at SS.

As for Nomar at 3B, I wouldn't do that, either, because Crede's offensive numbers have improved enough from last year to this year to warrant another full season at 3B to see if he can build on them. Plus, the exact same defensive argument applies here, too, as we all know that Crede is a plus defender at 3B, and I would go so far as to say that he's one of the top 5 defenders at his position in the majors.

The bottom of the order is not our problem. Streaky hitters in the #8 and #9 spots with good pop is actually more than you can say for a lot of teams, and when these guys are hot and are turning the lineup over, the guys that are paid to hit (Everett, Dye, AJ, Rowand) need to contribute.

The guys we expected more consistency from were Everett, Konerko, Dye, AJ, Rowand, and Pods. Sure, all players go into slumps, but some of these guys have had too prolonged of slumps for my tastes, and seem to be trying to hit 5 run homers on every swing lately.

We need a #3 hitter that can both drive in Pods and Iguchi (probably the most pleasant surprise of the season offensively) AND get on base in front of Konerko, which Nomar can do if he's healthy. I'm just holding out hope that Frank can be that guy, because when he was on the field in 2004 and 2005, he looked damn good, and more importantly, made people around him (AJ, Dye, and Rowand all seem to stand out in my mind) better.

Optipessimism
09-24-2005, 07:45 PM
This may sound like kind of a bad idea, but I wonder if KW could swing something like Duque + Marte for Pierre and Lowell + cash. Pierre is having a down year compared to his career numbers and should rebound, but will the Fish want to keep him or resign him? Lowell is having a terrible year, but maybe a change of scenery could do him some good?

The Fish really want to dump Lowell, so maybe if we gave them something decent they would pick up a good portion of the cash? I'm just having a hard time believing that Lowell is going to suck from here on out. Here's what he did 2002 - 2004:
'02 .276 AVG, 44 2B, 24 HR, 92 RBI, .346 OBP, .471 SLG
'03 .276 AVG, 27 2B, 32 HR, 105 RBI, .350 OBP, .530 SLG
'04 .293 AVG, 44 2B, 27 HR, 85 RBI, .365 OBP, .505 SLG

I think a deal like this would make sense for both sides and would be an absolute steal for us if Lowell rebounded. At worst, we are stuck with a cheaper Lowell (but have Crede on the bench to take over for him) and we have a better leadoff man than we have now (not to take anything away from Pods, but come on.)

santo=dorf
09-24-2005, 08:13 PM
There was a Miami Hearld article saying the Marlins were looking to attach Lowell to Delgado this offseason to cut salary.


I wouldn't mind upgrading our corners this offseason with those two. :yup:

gobears1987
09-24-2005, 09:19 PM
Yeah, my list was not based in reality. Chances are the Sox will still have on outfield consisting of Pods/Rowand/Dye, and maybe even PK at first if his salary demands aren't exorbitant.Yes and this is what I want. Our outfield is fine. Remember, Pods is playing injured. If you want to get an idea of what he provides, look at his 1st half stats. That is what he will give us. Rowand can hit well and is fairly cheap (plus he has heart.) Dye is cheap for his production and can play 1st should we not resign Pauly. I'd like to sign Pauly and we may be able to keep him at the right price. (I hope we do, Pauly haters can kiss my ass.)

We need to improve at DH. Carl isn't cutting it. If we can get Frank cheap, by all means do it, but we may need to sign someone. Tads is fine and signed next year. Crede has done well lately, but he still is a .240 hitter. If we can find another good glove who can hit, get him. Besides, Crede has to fire his agent if he wants to stay here. Uribe isn't good. He has a good glove, but we need a bat at SS. Keep our catchers. We need AJ for his attitide, power, and .300 career BA

As for pitching, drop El Duque and have BMac take his spot. Marte and Viz can go too.