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soltrain21
09-22-2005, 11:19 PM
Guh.


I have more heart than these guys.

Bluegrass1SOXFAN
09-22-2005, 11:20 PM
BMac goes inch for inch with Santana, and we still can't figure i way to push across 2 measily runs. Santana probably lights up when he finds the Sox on the his scheduled start.

I hate to say it, but we have nothing wrapped up, not even the WILD CARD. Unless, we win the next three, we are in some serious trouble guys. :mad:

I'm really at a loss for words. I never thought we'd be in a position to possibly flop and not even make the postseason. Is anyone as depressed as i am right now??!!

PAPChiSox729
09-22-2005, 11:20 PM
Jeez. From AJ's walkoff to Crede's walkoff a few nights ago to this, this has been an absolute rollercoaster of a season.

Cowhead418
09-22-2005, 11:21 PM
Seriously it doesn't even look like this team even cares anymore.

32nd&Wallace
09-22-2005, 11:21 PM
Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic

Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic

buehrle4cy05
09-22-2005, 11:21 PM
You wonder if the AAA callups have more heart right now. Anderson, Borchard, Bmac, Baj, hell even Raul Casanova.

PAPChiSox729
09-22-2005, 11:22 PM
Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic

Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic

I think you hit it on the head... excluding Brandon. He was great tonight.

chisoxmike
09-22-2005, 11:23 PM
Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic

Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic

Don't forget embarrassing.

SoxFan78
09-22-2005, 11:23 PM
5 LOB in extra innings. First place teams dont do that. Wild Card teams don't do that. Teams like Kansas City do that.

Cowhead418
09-22-2005, 11:23 PM
It's come to the point where I don't even get mad anymore. Truly pathetic.

nordhagen
09-22-2005, 11:23 PM
Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic

Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic Pathetic

And popup popup popup popup popup popup popup


By next weekend we'll be saying - WE GONE

32nd&Wallace
09-22-2005, 11:24 PM
Worst Loss Of The Year Bar None

lowestofthelow
09-22-2005, 11:25 PM
And popup popup popup popup popup popup popup


By next weekend we'll be saying - WE GONE


Don't you mean by this Sunday morning?

Hendu
09-22-2005, 11:25 PM
We don't deserve to be in the playoffs, plain and simple.

ElDuque26
09-22-2005, 11:25 PM
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:hikg6tNbhAoJ:http://www.schools.pinellas.k12.fl.us/gallery/variety/Heart.gif (http://www.schools.pinellas.k12.fl.us/gallery/variety/Heart.gif) this is the thing that everyone but Joe and BMac lacked tonight.

Sly
09-22-2005, 11:25 PM
Watching these games is masochism at its worst

billyvsox
09-22-2005, 11:25 PM
Pop up...Pop up...Pop up...Pop up...Pop up...Pop up (need i say more)

What happened to situational hitting..stealing bases..ever hearof a hit and run, and on, and on, and on.

I agree that this team dosen't appear to care anymore. Ozzie has lost them. Even just making the playoffs now will seem to be too embarrasing for these guys.

They are no fun to WATCH, no one smiles, no one has HEART. PERIOD!!!

MRKARNO
09-22-2005, 11:25 PM
After what happened in the bottom of the ninth tonight and the top of the 11th with Rowand's terrible route leading to a run, I think the Sox are really beginning to earn the "Choke" label. Before tonight, it wasn't so much of that, but tonight screamed "Choke!" This was the 2004 Cubs redux.

minastirith67
09-22-2005, 11:25 PM
Some thoughts:

McCarthy pitched very well. He is definitely getting the job done and it is unfortunate that Sox hitters flat out can't do what needs to be done.

I'm starting to agree with Randar on Rowand's defensive prowess.

Finally, we're running out of time to clinch the division. I'd like to win at least 4 of the final 10 games of the season. Once the playoffs hit, everything will change.

TheOldRoman
09-22-2005, 11:25 PM
Is anyone as depressed as i am right now??!!
The White Sox aren't. They dont really seem to care.

Red Barchetta
09-22-2005, 11:26 PM
McCarthy came through big time! It's sad that Dye could not hit a simple fly ball or at least drive the ball to the right side.

Nothing is wrapped up. The Yankees are finally making their expected move and if the SOX continue to score less than 2 runs a game, we can expect this .500 play to continue.

I love the SOX and I wear my colors with pride, but this is killing me! We need to execute. We blew two chances to win this game!

Hendu
09-22-2005, 11:26 PM
Worst Loss Of The Year Bar None

That's a phrase I've heard a lot lately. The real worst loss of the year might be yet to come though :(:

ScottsdaleSoxFan
09-22-2005, 11:26 PM
Ozzie is a fool. In his postgame comments he said that he isn't gonna say anything about how he feels about the team because it might upset his players. Ozzie, don't make idiot managerial moves and blame the players. If Dye had the take sign with the bases loaded, then that is a joke.

ElDuque26
09-22-2005, 11:26 PM
:whiner: if rowand catches the ball...this game is still being played as we type :angry:

PAPChiSox729
09-22-2005, 11:27 PM
That's a phrase I've heard a lot lately. The real worst loss of the year might be yet to come though :(:

*Fingers in ears* I can't hear you! Lalalalalalalala!!



We have to snap out of this tommorrow.

JB98
09-22-2005, 11:27 PM
If you were to ask me about this team's execution right now, I would be for it. The players are pressing offensively, IMO. You can see it on their faces. We should have won this game in the ninth. We should have won this game in the 10th. When you miss opportunities like that, it tends to come back and bite you in the ass.

It's a shame because McCarthy did a wonderful job of matching Santana. The kid deserved a victory. His teammates let him down.

John Barrett
09-22-2005, 11:28 PM
ozzie's a pud he doesn't know what to do anymore ...

SoxSpeed22
09-22-2005, 11:28 PM
Ozzie might have to shoot up the clubhouse (without hurting anyone!) if this **** continues.:mad: :angry:

SoxFan78
09-22-2005, 11:28 PM
Finally, we're running out of time to clinch the division. I'd like to win at least 4 of the final 10 games of the season. Once the playoffs hit, everything will change.


Please give me some of what your smoking because its sure working. IF the Sox make the playoffs you are right everything will change. They won't be able to lose 4 in a row because if they do they will be done for the year.

billyvsox
09-22-2005, 11:28 PM
Can we finally get off the Bobby Jenks bandwagon please! There is a reason why the Angels let him go and this is his first stint in the big leagues.

I would much rather see Dustin out there at least he will battle.

Way to late for McCarthy he should have stayed in the rotation after the Boston victory, but we game away 3 games for El Duke loyalty

JB98
09-22-2005, 11:28 PM
:whiner: if rowand catches the ball...this game is still being played as we type :angry:

Rowand made Randar look like a genius on that play, but this game should have been over before that ever happened.

PAPChiSox729
09-22-2005, 11:29 PM
Rowand made Randar look like a genius on that play, but this game should have been over before that ever happened.

If I have to pin this down on one person, it would be Dye. That popout killed us.

ND_Sox_Fan
09-22-2005, 11:31 PM
This comes down to playing scared baseball and nothing else. I'd start an all AAA lineup tomorrow night, barring Uribe, AJ, and Crede. They will play like they have nothing to loose, and that is how we had success early in the season.

This team takes more first-pitch fastball strikes than most teams see in a season. They are scared to swing and get the big hit. They are scared to take a chance and win a game. They are scared to play agressively.

This partly comes from Ozzie too. Why was Everett not pinch hit for in the ninth? Why not pinch hit for Jermaine with the bases loaded? You knew they were automatic outs. How many times has Everett struck out over the last few weeks in big situations, and how many times has Dye popped up with a man on third and less than two outs? With the right-hander on the mound, bring in AJ and let the most clutch and agressive guy on the roster hit. Instead, both guys take first-pitch fastballs right down Broadway.

As I said in another thread, it is not too late to move the lineup around, it is too late to lose any more games, and Everett is costing us games right now.

They have forgotten the "Die Trying" part of the "Win. Or Die Trying" slogan.

akingamongstmen
09-22-2005, 11:31 PM
I've been one of the few that have fought it for so long, but I'm pretty much out of hope right now. Playoff teams win games like this one. That's the bottom line. :(:

jehosaphat
09-22-2005, 11:31 PM
Of course, we could still do it. But, we won't be in the playoffs if the offense continues to sputter like it has been. This loss, paired with the first game against Cleveland, are games that good teams find a way to win. We won't make it if we only win 3 or 4 of our final games. It is painful.

itsnotrequired
09-22-2005, 11:31 PM
Note to Sox:

1. Pitch inside.

2. Try more steals, hit-and-runs, etc.

3. Stop swinging for the fences

Thank you.

mr_genius
09-22-2005, 11:31 PM
C'mon everyone, the magic number is in single digits

SoxSpeed22
09-22-2005, 11:32 PM
If I have to pin this down on one person, it would be Dye. That popout killed us.True, Dye fails to get the run in with one out. But why does everyone let Uribe off so easily just because there were 2 outs? Iguchi hitting into that double play doesn't excuse him either.

Tragg
09-22-2005, 11:32 PM
The fact that Guillen leads off with Osuna and his .312 obp exemplifies the problem with this team and its manager.

Our best hope is for the yankees to sweep the redsox - we could backdoor our way in (as it's obvious that we have little interest in the front door).

We should be pounding teams like the Twins this time of year.

Hendu
09-22-2005, 11:32 PM
DJ had the quote of the game: "Right now we control our own destiny and it looks like our destiny is to lose a whole lot of ballgames."

If I wasn't so shellshocked, I probably would have been laughing my butt off.

Viva Medias B's
09-22-2005, 11:32 PM
From LeCroy's RBI single onward, Hawk sounded like he was going to stick his head in the oven.

MRKARNO
09-22-2005, 11:32 PM
I'm pretty much out of hope right now. Playoff teams win games like this one.

You're out of hope that we'll make the playoffs? Has it ever occurred to you that we are 3 games ahead of Boston still for the Wild Card, if we were to blow the division?

billyvsox
09-22-2005, 11:34 PM
The Tribe is pounding everyone

The Yanks are pounding everyone

The Red Sox will start pounding the O's tommorrow

They all can smell the playoffs...that is what good teams do.

What are we smelling?

mr_genius
09-22-2005, 11:35 PM
You're out of hope that we'll make the playoffs? Has it ever occurred to you that we are 3 games ahead of Boston still for the Wild Card, if we were to blow the division?

Our chances for making the playoffs are still pretty good

However, this team could easily drop 7 of the next 10. That would be enough for Boston to catch us in the wildcard.

akingamongstmen
09-22-2005, 11:35 PM
You're out of hope that we'll make the playoffs? Has it ever occurred to you that we are 3 games ahead of Boston still for the Wild Card, if we were to blow the division?

I know. I guess I'm just frustrated that it's come to that. Backing in to the playoffs feels wrong for some reason.

SoxFan78
09-22-2005, 11:35 PM
You're out of hope that we'll make the playoffs? Has it ever occurred to you that we are 3 games ahead of Boston still for the Wild Card, if we were to blow the division?

The way they are playing right now, I don't see the Sox winning three more games the rest of the season.

Chisox353014
09-22-2005, 11:35 PM
How many times did we have a 2-0 count the last 3-4 innings and watch a fastball go right down the middle?

ScottsdaleSoxFan
09-22-2005, 11:36 PM
They renamed U.S. Cellular Field the SMS Titanic.

Get a win tomorrow.

VA_GoGoSox
09-22-2005, 11:36 PM
A lanky 22 year old just pitched his behind off against Santana and this team couldn't get it done for him. Disgusting.

Lorenzo Barcelo
09-22-2005, 11:37 PM
I just keep looking at that KC game with Hermy. :(:

Patrick134
09-22-2005, 11:37 PM
In the 4 games since monday, the tribe have 18 runs.... in the 7-8-9 innings alone. The Sox have 17 runs in the last 7 games total.

ScottsdaleSoxFan
09-22-2005, 11:37 PM
You're out of hope that we'll make the playoffs? Has it ever occurred to you that we are 3 games ahead of Boston still for the Wild Card, if we were to blow the division?

I hate these scenarios. Remember a couple weeks ago when we had scenarios of what the Indians had to do to pass us. A 3 game lead in the wild card is nothing. We could lose that in 3 days the way we're playing.

Hendu
09-22-2005, 11:38 PM
Our chances for making the playoffs are still pretty good

However, this team could easily drop 7 of the next 10. That would be enough for Boston to catch us in the wildcard.

Well, we've lost 10 of our last 14, so that 3 game lead over Boston doesn't mean squat unless we figure out how to win some ball games again.

CHISOXFAN13
09-22-2005, 11:39 PM
Iguchi has done such a nice job the whole season going the other way, yet when this team needs a single to right, he pulls one right to Tiffee.

And don't get me started on Dye. For the first time all season, I agreew with Hangar.

His lousy at-bat cost the Sox a ****ing win and also cost me some much needed sleep.

LostInLeftField
09-22-2005, 11:39 PM
And what does Cleveland do, a team hungry for the playoffs?

Puts up a two-spot in the 7th, 8th and 9th to blow their game wide open.

veeter
09-22-2005, 11:39 PM
True, Dye fails to get the run in with one out. But why does everyone let Uribe off so easily just because there were 2 outs? Iguchi hitting into that double play doesn't excuse him either. Because Dye didn't have to even get a hit. It's called situational hitting. The pressure was on the pitcher to get ahead because the bases were loaded. He new a good pitch was coming and the anus chose to take it. Then he proceeded to get jammed on two running fastballs. He's worthless.

itsnotrequired
09-22-2005, 11:39 PM
Game over in KC. 11-6, Indians.:(:

mr_genius
09-22-2005, 11:40 PM
Well, we've lost 10 of our last 14, so that 3 game lead over Boston doesn't mean squat unless we figure out how to win some ball games again.

figure out how to win games and do it fast

SomebodyToldMe
09-22-2005, 11:41 PM
But everyone's forgetting that the last few World Series winners have been the Wild Card teams!

Grrrrrr. My name is Earl, and I just recently found out about Karma...I didn't know the cubs play on the north AND south sides?

peeonwrigley
09-22-2005, 11:41 PM
Game over in KC. 11-6, Indians.:(:

There's a team that puts bad teams away. Kind of like the White Sox. Before August.

Not only have we lost a lot lately, we've lost close games. Straining our bullpen, so that when we're in another close game our arms are shot. Its a vicious friggin cycle.

SoxFan78
09-22-2005, 11:41 PM
And what does Cleveland do, a team hungry for the playoffs?

Puts up a two-spot in the 7th, 8th and 9th to blow their game wide open.

Wait a minute? Teams can score runs in consecutive innings?? I thought that was illegal.

SoxSpeed22
09-22-2005, 11:41 PM
Because Dye didn't have to even get a hit. It's called situational hitting. The pressure was on the pitcher to get ahead because the bases were loaded. He new a good pitch was coming and the anus chose to take it. Then he proceeded to get jammed on two running fastballs. He's worthless.In that case, he was going for the base on balls, I would much rather see someone step into one to win the game.

cheeses_h_rice
09-22-2005, 11:43 PM
Right now I'm more pissed off at this team than I've been all season long, and that's saying something.

Our offensive execution with the game on the line was FREAKING BRUTAL tonight, especially after we weaseled our way out of seemingly impossible jams in the previous half of the inning.

I won't even comment on Aaron's inexcusable defensive mistake that opened the door to the loss. Oh, hell, yes I will: Aaron, I know Gold Glove outfielders, and you, sir, are no gold glover. Part of being a good outfielder is learning to read the ball right off the bat, and you have sucked the past week at it.

We had this game in the palms of our hands. McCarthy, bless his scrawny heart, pitched like Roger Clemens tonight and kept us in the game, and Crede did his part as well, as did Juan on defense again. But I am so livid at our impotent, choking-dog offense right now.

I no longer feel that we're going to make the playoffs. I realize we still have a few games' lead over Boston for the Wild Card, but nothing I've seen the past 2 days has told me that these guys can untighten their sphincters enough to produce anything resembling a winning offense.

Tonight we had these situations:
8th - men on 1st and 2nd, 2 outs
9th - bases loaded, 1 out
10th - men on 1st and 2nd, 1 out

And we scored 0 runs. Playoff baseball? Don't make me laugh.

Right now I wouldn't be surprised if the Sox finished 3-4 games behind both Cleveland and Boston/NY for the Wild Card. We suck.

Huisj
09-22-2005, 11:44 PM
I can't believe that this meltdown is actually continuing to happen.


I grew up in Michigan, so I never had much access to watching the Sox very often. I moved to Champaign for grad school in early August, and I was super excited about being able to suddenly have total coverage of almost every game down the stretch of what was the most fun and promising season I've ever really witnessed.

And right about the time I moved, when my white sox-related life could have been so nice for the first time in my life, the season started falling apart. Why??????? I hate this.

billyvsox
09-22-2005, 11:44 PM
Those wild card teams that won the series were all ON FIRE down the stretch.

Like the Toons.

Deuce
09-22-2005, 11:45 PM
Rowand made Randar look like a genius on that play, but this game should have been over before that ever happened.

Screw that. Rowand make some sweet plays today. This game should have been over in the ninth and again in the tenth. Something had to give, and we just out of luck.

Deuce

TomParrish79
09-22-2005, 11:46 PM
What are we smelling?

we are smelling the same substance we are playing like

MRKARNO
09-22-2005, 11:46 PM
We could lose that in 3 days the way we're playing.

Or we could play like crap and hang on to the lead by a thread as the Red Sox play crappy like us from here on out.

CHISOXFAN13
09-22-2005, 11:46 PM
I'm also growing tired of watching Minnesota come into Chicago year in and year out and step on our throats. It's about time the White Sox did this to someone.

itsnotrequired
09-22-2005, 11:47 PM
Screw that. Rowand make some sweet plays today. This game should have been over in the ninth and again in the tenth. Something had to give, and we just out of luck.

Deuce

The time for running out of luck is slipping away. Sox still have the lead and I will not give up on them until the bitter end. That being said, the way they have been playing lately makes me think the season will be over sooner rather than later.

Prove me wrong, boys!

SoxSpeed22
09-22-2005, 11:48 PM
I'll gladly go down with the ship. BUT I'M NOT GONNA LIKE IT!

Patrick134
09-22-2005, 11:50 PM
The offense isn't that pathetic. The Sox did have 2 more hits than Grady Sizemore had tonight.

peeonwrigley
09-22-2005, 11:52 PM
Or we could play like crap and hang on to the lead by a thread as the Red Sox play crappy like us from here on out.

The playoffs are the playoffs, but if I had my druthers I would rather make it in a different fashion.

Mohoney
09-22-2005, 11:52 PM
Carl Everett needs to be removed from the #3 spot until he levels his swing out and stops swinging for homers. That at-bat he had in the 9th was flat-out pitiful.

peeonwrigley
09-22-2005, 11:53 PM
I'm also growing tired of watching Minnesota come into Chicago year in and year out and step on our throats. It's about time the White Sox did this to someone.

Yeah, where's the killer instinct? When a team puts your speedy lead off man on in the 10th inning by an error, you make them PAY for that. Honestly, I've seen little league teams with more of a killer instinct. The Sox are waiting for someone to go yard to bail them out.

Patrick134
09-22-2005, 11:54 PM
When the Sox do get to the playoffs ( in whichever spot), they'll be such underdogs that there will be no pressure on them. Kind of like in April when they were picked to finish 4th in the Central. Cleveland has zero pressure on them,. because they're not supposed to be there.

billyvsox
09-22-2005, 11:55 PM
My final post.

Its OVER people. Even if the sox catch fire the final 10 days which is very very very extremely entirely unlikely---its too late. They will never be able to recapture the 1st half Magic and that is sad. The biggest problem is they know they cant recapture the magic because it is something that just happens, you cant create it and it is gone. I believe that is why they are playing tight and with no heart.

Part of that magic was:

Pods stealing bases left and right (gone)
Scoring in the 1st inning all the time (gone)
Sacrifice Flys (gone)
2 out rallys (gone)
Hermy closing games with the fist pump (gone)
Before that, Shingo closing games and always Smiling (No One ever smiles anymore)
etc...etc..etc.. it was fun while it lasted.

Get ready for a Yankee - Cardinal series like everyone predicted anyway.

MRKARNO
09-22-2005, 11:56 PM
Get ready for a Yankee - Cardinal series like everyone predicted anyway.

I actually predicted a Yankees-Braves Wold Series.

JB98
09-22-2005, 11:58 PM
The playoffs are the playoffs, but if I had my druthers I would rather make it in a different fashion.

Look at it this way: If we continue in this fashion, we won't make it anyway. We are no longer in a position where we can back in. We have to win our way in.

We have seven very winnable games coming up: Three against an injury-riddled Twins team and four against a Tigers team that has given up and just got swept by the Royals.

But, the players have to stop feeling sorry for themselves. I'm tired of the long faces and the bewildered looks. We still have our destiny in our own hands, but these guys have got to start executing. We don't even try to steal or hit-and-run any longer. Where is the team that put so much pressure on opposing defenses earlier in the year? Sadly, it appears to be gone.

peeonwrigley
09-22-2005, 11:58 PM
Part of that magic was:

Pods stealing bases left and right (gone)
Scoring in the 1st inning all the time (gone)
Sacrifice Flys (gone)
2 out rallys (gone)
Hermy closing games with the fist pump (gone)
Before that, Shingo closing games and always Smiling (No One ever smiles anymore)
etc...etc..etc.. it was fun while it lasted.


I would love to argue some of those points. But, I cannot.

Patrick134
09-22-2005, 11:58 PM
Good point about Pods. The first huge real bad streak coincided with Pods going on the disabled list, and since he returned he hasnt been the same. Not that the injury is the sole reason for his base stealing woes, a lot of it seems to be a confidence issue. I think if Pods had been healthy all year, we may not have won a ton more games, but i believe we would have clinched by now.

SoxFan78
09-22-2005, 11:59 PM
I'll paraphrase a post I saw in a thread like this a couple of weeks ago.

This is the first time in MLB history a 1st place team was trying to catch a 2nd place team.

They interviewed McCarthy and he said the clubhouse is quiet after the loss, but they are still loose. I hope he was lying. This team should be livid with themselves.

southsideirish71
09-23-2005, 12:03 AM
Uribe swinging for the fences with the bases loaded in the 9th was terrible. 94 mph fastball at his head, wooosh. 94 mph fastball same height, wooosh.


His falling over swings reminded me of a Circa 2004 Valentin swing against a curveball.

It would be nice for the love of god for someone to have the common sense to realize that bases loaded less than two outs, a simple single will win it. You dont, I repeat dont get points for distance on the game winner.

And I thought only Carlos Lee or Jose Valentin were stupid with RISP and less than two outs. Can we get new hitters next year, and make them take a lye detector for stupidity.

kitekrazy
09-23-2005, 12:03 AM
Carl Everett needs to be removed from the #3 spot until he levels his swing out and stops swinging for homers. That at-bat he had in the 9th was flat-out pitiful.

He just needs to be benched. Give Borchard and Anderson a shot. They have a lot more to play for. I'd rather have Timo or Ozuna DH. Carl is fanning way too much.

kitekrazy
09-23-2005, 12:06 AM
Yeah, where's the killer instinct? When a team puts your speedy lead off man on in the 10th inning by an error, you make them PAY for that. Honestly, I've seen little league teams with more of a killer instinct. The Sox are waiting for someone to go yard to bail them out.

Little leagures don't make a habit of throwing 9 consecutive pitches for ball either.

Frankfan4life
09-23-2005, 12:06 AM
Can the Sox stop popping up so much?
Will we ever get some clutch hitting?
Will we ever dominate a game again from start to finish?
Will we ever play flawless D again?
Will we ever score in double digits again?
Will we ever get a lead again and keep it?
Will we ever pitch another shut out?
Will we ever win another game at home?
Will we ever win another game this season?
Can anyone or anything stop this slide into oblivion?

kitekrazy
09-23-2005, 12:11 AM
Well one positive thing is Santana did not beat us.

I know everyone wants to blame Ozzie, but they way this team is playing any move he makes will always be wrong and 2nd guessed. This is the guy I feel sorry for the most. No matter what the team isn't doing what they are suppose too.

But he needs to get Carl out of the lineup.

Dan H
09-23-2005, 12:12 AM
Our chances for making the playoffs are still pretty good

However, this team could easily drop 7 of the next 10. That would be enough for Boston to catch us in the wildcard.

No, the chances of Sox going to the playoffs are not good. This offense is putrid and there is no sign of it turning around. Anyone watching that ninth inning can tell you this team is going nowhere. There was no excuse for not getting that runner in from third with less than two outs. When was the last time this offense came through with a clutch hit? You have to think real hard, don't you?

By Saturday, this team will no longer be in first. If they are, they will fall soon after. This is the biggest collapse in Chicago baseball history and that is saying a lot.:angry:

I was a very nervous fan last month during the seven game losing streak, but I never envisioned this folding act. This beats the 1969 Cubs, the 1983 choke in the playoffs and the let downs of 1993 and 2000. In all my years as a Sox fan, I have never seen anything as bad as this. When a 22 year-old pitcher is the only one to step up, you know the rest of the team has gone south. Is there a leader anywhere on this team?

I am as emotionally drained as I could be. I only dread how truly bad it is going to get.:whiner:

lowesox
09-23-2005, 12:12 AM
One other thing I want to get off my chest. Ozzie is a *****. He should have had Pods stealing in extra innings instead of bunting him to second. He was afraid because of Pods' recent problems. So he played not to lose, instead of to win.

PAPChiSox729
09-23-2005, 12:13 AM
But he needs to get Carl out of the lineup.

For me, that is Step 1 to get out of this. Even if he stays in the lineup, he should not bat third. I don't really know who should replace him, but right now anyone is looking like a good option.

peeonwrigley
09-23-2005, 12:18 AM
One other thing I want to get off my chest. Ozzie is a *****. He should have had Pods stealing in extra innings instead of bunting him to second. He was afraid because of Pods' recent problems. So he played not to lose, instead of to win.

My problem was taking the bat out of Crede's hands.

cheeses_h_rice
09-23-2005, 12:19 AM
Hopefully, Ozzie will do something really productive to get the team refocused on the task at hand.

I recommend bitching about the media and the fans booing him again.

Jerko
09-23-2005, 12:20 AM
First off, I just got home from the game and have not read this thread yet, so forgive me if I repeat something here, which I'm sure I will. Otherwise, I don't even know where to start. What was the turning point of this game? Rowand hitting into a DP after starting with a 3-0 count? Gooch hitting into a DP with the game on the line? Using 4 pitchers in a 1-1 game while the other team is still on their starter, only to rely on a shaky at best bullpen? Pulling a pitcher who gave up 4 hits and was just reaching the 100 pitch mark? Not being able to get down a suicide bunt with the infield playing so far back they may as well have been in lot C? Not being able to hit a ****in fly ball with the bases loaded and one out? Using your "closer" in a tie game? Bringing in Marte knowing that Ford would pinch hit, the same Ford that kills us every time and eventually scored the winning run? Two infielders watching a pop up that was in the air for 15 seconds praying that the center fielder, who was playing deep, would come in and catch it and NOT allow the eventual winning run to get a leadoff "double"? Horrible, HORRIBLE game. And I thought they couldn't get any worse than last night but I guess I was wrong. Oh well, go get em tomorrow I guess. :rolleyes:

JB98
09-23-2005, 12:20 AM
Well one positive thing is Santana did not beat us.

I know everyone wants to blame Ozzie, but they way this team is playing any move he makes will always be wrong and 2nd guessed. This is the guy I feel sorry for the most. No matter what the team isn't doing what they are suppose too.

But he needs to get Carl out of the lineup.

And replace him with whom? Our bench is one of our weaknesses.

I agree that Carl looks terrible and has been poor for most of the second half, but honestly, I don't believe Borch and Ross Gload are the answer. At this point, you have to go with the guys who got you to this point, IMO. Making a bunch of tinkering changes creates panic in the clubhouse. Of course, you might argue that panic has already made its presence known in the clubhouse.

I don't have any brilliant suggestions for Ozzie. I'm contemplating the possibility that this team just isn't good enough at this point.

BeviBall!
09-23-2005, 12:26 AM
Just got back and I can only imagine this thread. Here are my venting points:

1) Glad we threw the same exact lineup out there that Santana has half his victories over.

2) B Mac was awesome... but he gave the lead right back.

3) Extra innings and we have our hottest hitter in Crede bunting... with the league leader in SBs on first :?:

4) Dye. GD man... a fly ball. That's all we needed... an out. And we can't even do that.

5) Gooch letting that ball drop 10 feet behind the infield. Todd Walker makes that play. Not Rowands fault because he made some unbelieveable catches tonight.

6) Jenks is jinxed. The defense he's seen behind him this week is deplorable.

7) Marte pitching at all.

8) We follow up the biggest win of our lifetime with 1 run in the next 20 innings. WTG chumps.

Jerko
09-23-2005, 12:32 AM
Just got back and I can only imagine this thread. Here are my venting points:


5) Gooch letting that ball drop 10 feet behind the infield. Todd Walker makes that play.



I'm glad I'm not the only one not blaming Rowand for that play.

FoulTerritory
09-23-2005, 12:33 AM
If I have to pin this down on one person, it would be Dye. That popout killed us.

I agree completely. Its not really a matter of heart. They WANT to win, but it is a matter of concentration, intelligence, and overall control of one's thought processes. I mean, there is no excuse, when all you need is a fly ball, that Jermaine should not have been ready to swing at that first pitch. It was a meat fastball over the heart. Like Hawk, I couldn't even believe he let that ball pass.

chidonez
09-23-2005, 12:35 AM
It was almost CHUNK night, but alas... Things need to change, the Tribe isn't going to do it for us... I'm convinced we'll be there in the PO-PO

BeviBall!
09-23-2005, 12:35 AM
I'm glad I'm not the only one not blaming Rowand for that play.

I was sitting front row in right center. I saw Gooch just turn around and watch it drop 10 feet behind the infield. If Uribe wasn't playing Ford to pull, he would have made it easy. Rowand busted tail... he had to go 20 yards to even make an attempt at it.

Jerko
09-23-2005, 12:36 AM
I agree completely. Its not really a matter of heart. They WANT to win, but it is a matter of concentration, intelligence, and overall control of one's thought processes. I mean, there is no excuse, when all you need is a fly ball, that Jermaine should not have been ready to swing at that first pitch. It was a meat fastball over the heart. Like Hawk, I couldn't even believe he let that ball pass.

I agree, it's not heart. They're scared ****less. Until they grow a pair, don't expect many different results.

pudge
09-23-2005, 12:36 AM
I wish FarWestChicago was around these days. I just wonder if he'd still be calling Dark Clouds morons. :cool:

God, this game leaves me such little hope. I am totally spent. I hope this team does something to get us back behind them before this season is over.

chisoxfanatic
09-23-2005, 12:38 AM
I can't even THINK of what to say right now...A couple of tears came down my face as I walked to my car, actually. The only thing I've cried about in a long while is the difficulty in a long-distance relationship with my one and only.

This is too bad to be happening...

Jerko
09-23-2005, 12:38 AM
I was sitting front row in right center. I saw Gooch just turn around and watch it drop 10 feet behind the infield. If Uribe wasn't playing Ford to pull, he would have made it easy. Rowand busted tail... he had to go 20 yards to even make an attempt at it.

Ford's not even in the game if Marte's number never gets called either. Quit using 18 pitchers in a game where you've given up one lousy run after 8 innings.

Brian26
09-23-2005, 12:43 AM
Ford's not even in the game if Marte's number never gets called either. Quit using 18 pitchers in a game where you've given up one lousy run after 8 innings.

If I'm the manager, I'd still have McCarthy out there. And at 11:45 pm, we'd be in the 19th inning, McCarthy would have over 200 pitches thrown, and our asses would still be tied 1-1. But that's me. :cool:

BeviBall!
09-23-2005, 12:46 AM
Ford's not even in the game if Marte's number never gets called either. Quit using 18 pitchers in a game where you've given up one lousy run after 8 innings.

It's not a true Guillen-managed game unless we can use 5-6 pitchers and blow the bullpen out for the next day!

BeviBall!
09-23-2005, 12:47 AM
If I'm the manager, I'd still have McCarthy out there. And at 11:45 pm, we'd be in the 19th inning, McCarthy would have over 200 pitches thrown, and our asses would still be tied 1-1. But that's me. :cool:

McCarthy should've been allowed to start the 9th. He was on 97 pitches and had settled back into a groove after Jones' 756th HR against us.

sox7235
09-23-2005, 12:48 AM
McCarthy should've been allowed to start the 9th. He was on 97 pitches and had settled back into a groove after Jones' 756th HR against us.

As soon as I saw Widger set up outside I knew it. That was just a horrible pitch call, IMO.

kitekrazy
09-23-2005, 12:51 AM
Imagine when the Sox and Clevleland meet next week if both teams have clinched playoff spots and they play for the division title.

BeviBall!
09-23-2005, 12:51 AM
Also, Woo Woo has been there the past two nights. If I see him again, I'm taking him out. Many blasted him with profanities, but he kept walking, holding a drink I'm sure he didn't buy himself.

HotelWhiteSox
09-23-2005, 12:51 AM
Some of you guys are ridiculous, I'm sure they don't realize what is happnening and have no heart, so they're not trying to get a hit. Maybe if they would've high fived one extra teammate one of their ground balls would've gotten through. I really wish they would figure out that the fans don't like it when the team loses so they could stop. I mean, if someone in the league actually cared, maybe we could have .400 hitters again! Maybe coming on a little strong, but I just hate how heart is measured on how succesful the player is. I like Crede, but he is the only one who has heart because he hit a HR? ***? Heart won't always equal to success, it has to do with running balls out and not giving up, which is sometimes unfairly correlated to being unsuccessful! Manny Ramirez doesn't have heart, he's just good.

Now back to the game, this game was mismanaged starting from last week. As I've said for days in other threads, this was the least winnable game of the year, the Twins AAA lineup is not the issue, it's getting a run or even a hit against Santana. Put Hernandez or someone else out there and hope for something special, and save McCarthy for a more winnable game. When your offense has no chance from the get go, you're just wasting his performance.

Also, Marte can only be brought in for mop up or after being up by at least 3 runs. He didn't do damage, but he wasted another arm in a stupid situation to bring him in, which was worse because of it being a tie game.

Rowand, yikes, he made some nice plays earlier, but I'm starting to agree with Daver's assessment when the comparisons to Griffey came up. I don't have the exact quote, but Rowand came make some great looking plays on some balls while Griffey makes those same ones look routine. All those nice looking catches may be the result of bad reads/routes in the first place, though he has still had some good plays. Don't get me started on his offensive...only useful when he gets hit by a pitch

mdep524
09-23-2005, 12:55 AM
A little perspective here.... wasn't this the game we were supposed to lose anyway? Cy Young vs. the Rookie? Guy who owns vs. a terrible line up of righties he's dominated before? Let's see what we do in the next three.

That's the best spin I can think of. The way we lost this game is so horrific there's no explanation. It's not lack of heart, etc... it's just terrible baseball. Frankly, I expected nothing fromthe horrible line up Ozzie ran out there today, so I'm not surprised by the first 8 innings. Ozzie is so stubborn on some issues...its very frustrating.

Do the Sox have another hot streak in them? I wasn't worried before and I still have some hope now, but its seeming less and less likely.

Jerko
09-23-2005, 12:56 AM
Also, Woo Woo has been there the past two nights. If I see him again, I'm taking him out. Many blasted him with profanities, but he kept walking, holding a drink I'm sure he didn't buy himself.

Some guy in an orange shirt was in his face and I really thought he was gonna sock him. Woo Woo cut thru a row of seats and scurried out of the next aisle over.

sox7235
09-23-2005, 12:57 AM
A little perspective here.... wasn't this the game we were supposed to lose anyway? Cy Young vs. the Rookie? Guy who owns vs. a terrible line up of righties he's dominated before? Let's see what we do in the next three.

That's the best spin I can think of. The way we lost this game is so horrific there's no explanation. It's not lack of heart, etc... it's just terrible baseball. Frankly, I expected nothing fromthe horrible line up Ozzie ran out there today, so I'm not surprised by the first 8 innings. Ozzie is so stubborn on some issues...its very frustrating.

Do the Sox have another hot streak in them? I wasn't worried before and I still have some hope now, but its seeming less and less likely.

Yes, they were supposed to lose, but had 2 very good chances to win and that's what hurts. Games like this determines who goes to the playoffs and goes home. I've supported these Sox all year and will continue to do so, but they have to games when it's there for them to take, you just have to.

noquitter
09-23-2005, 12:58 AM
I wish FarWestChicago was around these days. I just wonder if he'd still be calling Dark Clouds morons. :cool:All West ever said was nothing was guaranteed so you should enjoy winning while it was going on. So, Mr. Dark Cloud, you didn't enjoy the good times and now you have this. Hmmm, sounds like a moron to me. :o:

cheeses_h_rice
09-23-2005, 01:01 AM
Also, Woo Woo has been there the past two nights. If I see him again, I'm taking him out. Many blasted him with profanities, but he kept walking, holding a drink I'm sure he didn't buy himself.

Who's letting that piece of **** soil our ballpark up? If the Sox can ban Andy the Clown, why not Toothless Crackhead the Cubbie Clown?

BeviBall!
09-23-2005, 01:02 AM
Some guy in an orange shirt was in his face and I really thought he was gonna sock him. Woo Woo cut thru a row of seats and scurried out of the next aisle over.

We must've been in/near the same section. I thought that guy was about to do something also.

BeviBall!
09-23-2005, 01:03 AM
Who's letting that piece of **** soil our ballpark up? If the Sox can ban Andy the Clown, why not Toothless Crackhead the Cubbie Clown?

Better question: who is buying his ticket?

StillMissOzzie
09-23-2005, 01:09 AM
I just got home from tonight's train wreck, and forgive me if I repeat a few pearls of wisdom that may have been posted already. Tonight's choke-fest was a microcosm of this season's chokefest. The Sox should have won it in the 9th, They had their chances in the 10th. For want of one lousy sacrifice fly, this pathetic team is one more loss/Cleveland victory from not even controlling it's own destiny, at least with respect to winning the division. As bad as things look after tonight's disaster, what if the magic number is still 9 with 9 left to play. Or 8 left to play? And is there anyone out there doubting that the Tribe might just run the table?

I also heard that Ronnie Woo Woo was in our vicinity. (I was in Sect 159 tonight) I didn't see any encounter with this guy in the orange shirt someone just mentioned, but how DOES this ******* keep getting better tickets than me?

SMO
:angry: :(:

Lip Man 1
09-23-2005, 01:12 AM
This game was down for a loss in my mind anyway. How the Sox lost it doesn't matter, a loss is a loss is a loss. So here's what it comes down to boys and girls. Win six of the next seven period.

The magic number will be down to 3 (or maybe less) and they have a small chance in Cleveland. If it's over three forget it. They aren't winning two out of three or better.

I guess that's all I can say. It's up to the players.

I had a chance to interview Don Kessinger in the mid 80's when he was in Monroe and we talked about the 69 Cubs. I actually apologized for bringing it up but how can you avoid it? Don was cool about it and he told me regardless of where he goes it always comes up.

If the Sox want to go through the rest of their lives with that stigma they'll continue playing like the brain dead buffoons they have been since August 1st.

I agree they are playing very very tight and very very scared and it shows.

Lip

beckett21
09-23-2005, 01:13 AM
Some guy in an orange shirt was in his face and I really thought he was gonna sock him. Woo Woo cut thru a row of seats and scurried out of the next aisle over.

That happened right by me. I was in the second row in 103, right center.

Anyway, this team has now officially worn me out. I have partaken in the Sox Kool-Aid, I have defended their many recent indiscretions. I have vowed to maintain the faith. But these guys are making it VERY hard right now. McCarthy was stellar, but the bullpen was shaky and the offense was inept. That game should have been won in the 9th, and again in the 10th.

They looked pathetic tonight. Lifeless. Indifferent. If they don't care, how are we supposed to care? I'm trying, I really really am...but the reality of the situation really sunk in watching that gutless performance tonight.

They still control their fate. It's not too late. No one is just going to roll over and hand them this thing, though. The quicker they realize that, the better. They need to stop watching the scoreboard and take matters into their own hands. Cleveland can't gain any ground if they win. That's all they need to do, take care of their own damn business.

HotelWhiteSox
09-23-2005, 01:17 AM
I'm not real happy with Ozzie right now, he wonders why we boo after some of the stuff he pulls off?

NO MORE BENCH PLAYERS. Unless injury is involved, you better give me my playoff lineup for the rest of the year. No Pablo, no Willie, no Timo, no Blum, etc. I will only give one exception, and that is an Everett replacement if you are not going to move him down, he's killing this team. And no way Rowand should be hitting that high. I know, I said I want the playoff roster, so I will be fine if he gives me no subs, but that doesn't mean you can't switch a couple hitters around

Norberto7
09-23-2005, 01:30 AM
Wow, just got back from that crap festival. Where did it all go wrong? In no possible way should that game have been lost. But in all honesty, it was lost before it even started. Johan Santana is a good to excellent pitcher. He should not completely and utterly dominate the same opponent every time out. His ERA coming into the game against the Sox this year was what, 0.86? Less than an earned run a game, whatever it was. Does it seem like the Sox just give up against this guy? Law of averages, at least, come on. He's good, but he's not untouchable.

And I blame Rowand for not catching that ball. You have a rookie pitcher getting the leadoff man to pop the ball up....and he ends up on second. You have to pick him up. If he reads it right, he catches it, period.

And Dye.....Dye.....**** it.

Anyone who says "We still have a 1.5 game lead," you can stick 1.5 tons of **** up your ***. It might as well be 10 games behind. It's baseball, anything can happen, but from every identifiable trend I can see, this is an express elevator to hell.

So a friend that I was at the game with noted this, and I think it's true...are not the 2005 White Sox the biggest ****tease? I mean, just look at this game. Just look at this season. Oh, how we were going to show those doubters, with the mighty 15 game lead. Question our pitching? How dare they! Wonder about that offense? What audacity! Well, thanks for getting us all excited and then passing out.

McCarthy pitched great, he should have won, but the Sox shuddered at Big, Bad Santana and didn't do jack. Jenks, I don't blame him. It's amazing how anyone who has been watching the team lately must have had a sense of what was going to happen this game. A number of examples:

1) Santana shutting down the Sox.
2) Sox swinging for the fences.
3) McCarthy pitching well (a positive!).
4) Uribe making spectacular clutch defensive plays (also a positive!).
5) Ozzie bringing Marte in (boos).
6) Marte walking the first batter on 4 or 5 pitches.
7) Politte cleaning up Marte's mess.
8) Sox having bases loaded, one out and getting no runs.
9) Sox having 1st and 2nd, 1 out, and grounding into a double play.
10) The Sox losing.
11) The Indians winning.


:sahaf

"The Indians are not within 10 games of the White Sox! Lots A through D will be filled with the blood of the Native American infidels if they try to take our division! The Zionist Chief Wahoo is weak and afraid!"

beckett21
09-23-2005, 01:33 AM
This game was down for a loss in my mind anyway.

While that is pretty much the *conventional wisdom*, I hate that kind of thinking. Screw Johan Santana. He is only a man (albeit a VERY good man). He is not infallible. He has been and can be beaten.

The game is NEVER lost until it is played. McCarthy pitched Santana to a draw tonight. He matched Johan pitch for pitch, and clearly deserved a better fate.

The Sox should have won that game twice over. They blew it, plain and simple. To say that it was already a lost cause is a cop out.

DieTrying79
09-23-2005, 01:57 AM
Tonite hurt...it reallllly hurt deeply. We can't go down like this.

JB98
09-23-2005, 02:06 AM
While that is pretty much the *conventional wisdom*, I hate that kind of thinking. Screw Johan Santana. He is only a man (albeit a VERY good man). He is not infallible. He has been and can be beaten.

The game is NEVER lost until it is played. McCarthy pitched Santana to a draw tonight. He matched Johan pitch for pitch, and clearly deserved a better fate.

The Sox should have won that game twice over. They blew it, plain and simple. To say that it was already a lost cause is a cop out.

I agree. If we're going to bow and kiss Santana's ass, why show up?

This game should have been won. The Sox choked tonight. Period.

Lip Man 1
09-23-2005, 02:08 AM
Beck:

In the standings tomorrow it'll still be another loss for the Sox unless they have started a column for 'near misses...'

A man's got to know his limitations. The Sox couldn't beat Santana if he told them what was coming, they'd try for a 600 foot home run and meekly pop the ball up to second base.

This was a loss as soon as the Twins 'convienently' decided to change their rotation 'just' so he could pitch twice against the Sox. (and they are probably laughing their asses off about it in the locker room.)

Like I said doesn't matter...if they don't win say 6 of the next seven it's over anyway. Then we can all relax and get ready to be abused over the winter by every Tom, Dick and Harry.

Lip

JB98
09-23-2005, 02:13 AM
Beck:

In the standings tomorrow it'll still be another loss for the Sox unless they have started a column for 'near misses...'

A man's got to know his limitations. The Sox couldn't beat Santana if he told them what was coming, they'd try for a 600 foot home run and meekly pop the ball up to second base.

This was a loss as soon as the Twins 'convienently' decided to change their rotation 'just' so he could pitch twice against the Sox. (and they are probably laughing their asses off about it in the locker room.)

Like I said doesn't matter...if they don't win say 6 of the next seven it's over anyway. Then we can all relax and get ready to be abused over the winter by every Tom, Dick and Harry.

Lip

But Lip, we didn't lose to Santana tonight. B-Mac matched him pitch for pitch. And we had two golden opportunities, one against Rincon in the 9th and one against Crain in the 10th.

This loss had nothing to do with Santana and everything to do with miserable offensive execution when it mattered most.

Coming into tonight, my hopes were for McCarthy to keep us tied or maybe one run behind until the late innings and then win it against the Twins bullpen. That's exactly the scenario that SHOULD have played out.

ma-gaga
09-23-2005, 02:15 AM
The Sox should have won that game twice over. They blew it, plain and simple. To say that it was already a lost cause is a cop out.

Santana and the Twins bullpen are really damn good though. They put a LOT of teams into offensive slumps. It just happens. They don't look dominating (well, Nathan looks untouchable), but they get out of jams, and get the job done.

The problem is that the Twins only have ONE Johan Santana. The W.Sox have much better matchups the rest of the series. If Gardenhire actually runs out Joe Mays, that is an absolute "gimmie" for the W.Sox. I'll be embarrased as a baseball fan to have to watch that ****.

:gulp:

beckett21
09-23-2005, 02:20 AM
But Lip, we didn't lose to Santana tonight. B-Mac matched him pitch for pitch. And we had two golden opportunities, one against Rincon in the 9th and one against Crain in the 10th.

This loss had nothing to do with Santana and everything to do with miserable offensive execution when it mattered most.

Coming into tonight, my hopes were for McCarthy to keep us tied or maybe one run behind until the late innings and then win it against the Twins bullpen. That's exactly the scenario that SHOULD have played out.

Exactly.

Santana did not beat the Sox tonight. They beat themselves.

McCarthy kept them even until Santana was out of the game. The Sox had opportunities against Minny's bullpen and they wet the bed.

The way I see it, that was a game the Sox should have won. Regardless, they lost. There is a reason that they do actually play the games, though.

BarbG
09-23-2005, 02:25 AM
Big disappointment tonight.

No more birthday games for the kids/friends; this year they've lost every stinkin' one of them. At least they still had fun. Got their thrill, got on the big screen, cheered their hearts out.

I really really thought they had this one. I've been going to a lot of games for a lot of years and I have never seen the crowds this strongly behind them, getting stronger and stronger throughout this season. The fans were with them 1000%.

I have never understood pulling starting pitchers who aren't struggling. The kid was doing fine, better than fine. But I'm in the minority who didn't think Marte should be booed. Konerko has K'd and GIDP'd and been thrown out on the bases for his slowness and shattered my hopes countless times more than Marte has blown saves and I don't boo him, ever. This is our town, our park, our team and we should not be booing our own. Or at least save the booing for when he screws up. I've never seen a reliever - the guy in whose hands the game now rests - booed all the way to the mound. Not the best message to give the Twins. We should be showing our confidence and never let 'em see you're scared.

I would have loved to see McCarthy back on the mound in the 9th too, but who knows what difference that would've made. Five baserunners and nobody could move them. Fairly routine pop-up misread by two guys.

My heart hurts tonight but I still think they can turn this around.

beckett21
09-23-2005, 02:26 AM
Santana and the Twins bullpen are really damn good though. They put a LOT of teams into offensive slumps. It just happens. They don't look dominating (well, Nathan looks untouchable), but they get out of jams, and get the job done.

:gulp:

Bases loaded with 1 out in the 9th. Runner on second base with 1 out in the 10th. The Sox should have converted on at least one of those opportunities.

I don't care that Santana and the Twins bullpen are really damn good, which I acknowledge that they are. If the Sox execute, nothing any fancier than a sac fly for crying out loud, they win that game. Is a sacrifice fly too much to ask for anymore? :?:

Painful. Just painful to watch.

Soxfanspcu11
09-23-2005, 02:35 AM
I like to see the many posts referring to the sox "swinging for the fences". Its nice to see that other people are also noticing this as well. Of course I wish the sox would just knock it off!


I know alot of you guys on here like Greg Walker and think he is a good hitting coach and a nice guy or whatever but the bottom line is that he either just sucks as a hitting coach or he just does not work well with ozzie.

I remember watching TWIB a few weeks or so ago and they had Dye miked inside the sox dugout when they were in Baltimore after the all-star break. The Orioles brought in a new pitcher and Dye asked Walker, "What does this guy throw?" And Walkers response was, "baseballs". Quite obviously this is a joke but the humor passes me by when your clearly a team with a horrid offense. I think the thing that really upsets me about that comment is that while you could tell walker wasn't serious, it probably wasnt that far from the truth, he probably had no clue. When a pitcher (santanta) shuts you down 4 times throughout the season, something is wrong. Someone on here said it best, his ERA is not 0.00 so it IS possible to score off him. Make adjustements, watch tape, look at scouting reports, shorten your swing, etc. None of this seems to be happening and it's sickening to watch.

Yes, Walker does deserve some praise for what he has done with Uribe's swing, but that does not make up for everyone else trying to hit the ball into Fundamentals. If walker wants to know how to "coach" he should invite Coop over for some sleep-overs so he can figure it out. What Coop has done with a mediocre bullpen staff to start the season is nothing short of amazing.

And does anyone here remember how Cleveland fired Eddie Murray as their hitting coach earlier this year? Geez, they got it right, Im sorry, I know some of you may like Walker as a guy but as a coach he is lost. Murray was a hero in Cleveland but they showed him the door when it just wasn't working out when he was a coach and that seems to have worked out alright for them....

Enough is enough, on paper this offense is just not this bad, something needs to be done and I think it starts with getting rid of Walker

SouthSide_HitMen
09-23-2005, 02:38 AM
Fourth game in four nights - 1-3 :(:

I'll bring up a couple points I haven't seen addressed after reviewing the thread.

1. I mark my scorecard for special plays / turning points and at times when I would do something different than the manager.

I think Brian Anderson should have had the start today in left field. Ozuna is not a regular and not an offensive threat. Ozzie is obsessed with having "speed at the top of the lineup. I rather have someone on base slower than Konerko leading off than someone who cannot get on.

Given that Ozuna started the games turning point came in the 8th. At that point Ozuna hadn't hit the ball out of the infield. We have runners on 1st and 3rd with two out. I would have pinch hit Anderson vs. Santana (I would have started him in the first place). Ozuna ended up popping up to shortstop keeping his streak alive of not hitting the ball out of the infield. Ozuna was subsequently pinch hit for in the 10th.

Obviously the wasted opportunity in the 9th was the other key to the game. Dye couldn't handle Rincon's fastball. He can't bunt for **** so no squeeze was in play unless you pinch hit for him and then they would know the squeeze was on. I agreed with Ozzie and thought Dye could hit a sac fly to end it but unfortunately that wasn't the case.

Crazy Carl (0-5) continued his worthless ways the past several weeks.

I don't know what the point was of calling up guys if you are not going to use them. Brian Anderson should have had several starts and Bajenaru could really help an overworked bullpen.

Ozzie better start managing to win vs. managing not to lose or we will end up losing this thing and possibly a playoff spot.

I think we win 2 of 3 the remainder of the series, 3-4 in Detroit and 2-3 in Cleveland and end up winning the division. McCarthy better get the start on Tuesday and Sunday. El Duque should be used in blowout games (hopefully in White Sox blowouts) to rest the bullpen.

Headed back to the park Friday and Sunday for hopefully 2 more White Sox winners.

SouthSide_HitMen
09-23-2005, 02:43 AM
I have never understood pulling starting pitchers who aren't struggling. The kid was doing fine, better than fine. But I'm in the minority who didn't think Marte should be booed. Konerko has K'd and GIDP'd and been thrown out on the bases for his slowness and shattered my hopes countless times more than Marte has blown saves and I don't boo him, ever. This is our town, our park, our team and we should not be booing our own. Or at least save the booing for when he screws up. I've never seen a reliever - the guy in whose hands the game now rests - booed all the way to the mound. Not the best message to give the Twins. We should be showing our confidence and never let 'em see you're scared.

I disagree with McCarthy - he is young and this is the most innings he is pitched so he needs to be monitored closely. We had eight great innings out of him and that is more than we should expect from a rookie.

As far as the booing, I was VERY disappointed when he was booed heading from the bullpen. He is losing any confidence he built upon his return in Minnesota. We need Marte and hopefully he can get some good outings the final week on the road and he will be better received in the playoffs. I like that Ozzie flip flopped Cotts and Marte saving Cotts as the main late inning lefty. Hopefully he will stick with this.

Soxfanspcu11
09-23-2005, 02:55 AM
Fourth game in four nights - 1-3 :(:







and Bajenaru could really help an overworked bullpen.




That man sucks. He is absolutely horrible. He has NO effective pitches and his control is a mess. He could have helped an overworked bullpen only if the score was 15-2 prior to him coming in.

SouthSide_HitMen
09-23-2005, 03:15 AM
That man sucks. He is absolutely horrible. He has NO effective pitches and his control is a mess. He could have helped an overworked bullpen only if the score was 15-2 prior to him coming in.

Why he looked good in Anaheim and at Texas pitching 3 innings of allowing 1 hit. He had one bad inning in mop up last night. We have had others pitch far worse down the stretch.

pudge
09-23-2005, 03:17 AM
All West ever said was nothing was guaranteed so you should enjoy winning while it was going on. So, Mr. Dark Cloud, you didn't enjoy the good times and now you have this. Hmmm, sounds like a moron to me. :o:

I'm not a Dark Cloud, and I'm sure FarWest is a reasonable guy, but there were some mean things being said about some people who might just turn out to be right.

faneidde
09-23-2005, 07:58 AM
I don't have time to read through this whole thread, but having Crede bunt was the worst decision Ozzie has made all year. This is not second guessing either, I was furious in the chat room and I'm still angry. You don't ask your hottest hitter who hit two homers two days ago and already has one to bunt, you give him an opportunity to win the game. Smart ball was playing baseball with no balls last night.

downstairs
09-23-2005, 08:55 AM
I don't have time to read through this whole thread, but having Crede bunt was the worst decision Ozzie has made all year. This is not second guessing either, I was furious in the chat room and I'm still angry. You don't ask your hottest hitter who hit two homers two days ago and already has one to bunt, you give him an opportunity to win the game. Smart ball was playing baseball with no balls last night.

Yep. "Small Ball" or "Smart Ball" or whatever is often put into action because it just seems like a good thing to do. When Crede did that, everyone was fawning over the "gutsy" decision.

Sometimes I think Ozzie doesn't actually manage. He just gambles with such bizarre plays that when he comes up right he looks brilliant. That is correcting itself now.

BeviBall!
09-23-2005, 09:03 AM
I don't have time to read through this whole thread, but having Crede bunt was the worst decision Ozzie has made all year. This is not second guessing either, I was furious in the chat room and I'm still angry. You don't ask your hottest hitter who hit two homers two days ago and already has one to bunt, you give him an opportunity to win the game. Smart ball was playing baseball with no balls last night.

1,000,000% correct.

Rocky Soprano
09-23-2005, 09:34 AM
Ozzie Guillen is a dumb ass for brining in Marte, yes that didn't cost us the game, luckily. But why in the hell does he keep on doing that?

Jenks is not the same pitcher anymore, for some reason he doesn't trust his curveball.

And the offense just sucks.

Baby Fisk
09-23-2005, 09:39 AM
All that booing was deserved. Marte is done. If his arm ain't finished yet, his head certainly is. Done! Toast! Finished! :angry:

Last night was awful, this morning feels even worse.

SoxFan78
09-23-2005, 10:20 AM
The worst thing about last nights loss? I received my playoff tickets in the mail last night. They look so nice, I opened up the envelope like a kid on christmas morning. I was inspired, a new man, I had a feeling the Sox would go on a tear that night.

Wrong.

BeviBall!
09-23-2005, 10:24 AM
The worst thing about last nights loss? I received my playoff tickets in the mail last night. They look so nice, I opened up the envelope like a kid on christmas morning. I was inspired, a new man, I had a feeling the Sox would go on a tear that night.

Wrong.

They should have waited until we were actually in the playoffs before selling tickets. Then, Jerry could fly his helicopter over Grant Park and drop the tickets from the sky, like it was first aid to thrid-world nation.

zmz723
09-23-2005, 10:45 AM
i know you guys wont agree with me, but i would have put timo in for dye in the ninth. There was one out and he could have done the drag bunt bringing in gooch from third.

PaulDrake
09-23-2005, 10:51 AM
Anyone who says "We still have a 1.5 game lead," you can stick 1.5 tons of **** up your ***. It might as well be 10 games behind. It's baseball, anything can happen, but from every identifiable trend I can see, this is an express elevator to hell. Can someone please hit the emergency button?

harwar
09-23-2005, 10:57 AM
Marte is done. If his arm ain't finished yet, his head certainly is. Done! Toast! Finished!

Yes,i agree.I didn't like the look on marte's face last night.They should get that guy out of there,as fear can spread through a group like fire and totally destroy moral.

Fake Chet Lemon
09-23-2005, 02:21 PM
Historically I'm not a huge Joe Crede fan. But I never want to see a teams hottest hitter bunt, especially when everyone else is choking. NEVER.

And no more Dumb-asso Marte in the 9th inning, please?

Mohoney
09-23-2005, 05:39 PM
My problem was taking the bat out of Crede's hands.

Actually, Crede would be the only one I would trust right now to even get that bunt down. I had absolutely no problem with that move.

faneidde
09-23-2005, 07:23 PM
Actually, Crede would be the only one I would trust right now to even get that bunt down. I had absolutely no problem with that move.
Ok, but Crede is the only one who has more than a snowballs chance to drive in a run right, so Ozzie Genius has him but and Iguchi 6-4-3. Stupid stupid stupid is the only way to describe that move, yet Ozzie gets a free ride from most of the posters here. If Manual had done that, there'd be a mutiny originating from WSI.

kitekrazy
09-23-2005, 07:26 PM
Ok, but Crede is the only one who has more than a snowballs chance to drive in a run right, so Ozzie Genius has him but and Iguchi 6-4-3. Stupid stupid stupid is the only way to describe that move, yet Ozzie gets a free ride from most of the posters here. If Manual had done that, there'd be a mutiny originating from WSI.

Hell would freeze over before Jerry Manuel would have anyone bunt.

FarWestChicago
09-30-2005, 02:31 AM
I wish FarWestChicago was around these days. I just wonder if he'd still be calling Dark Clouds morons. :cool:

God, this game leaves me such little hope. I am totally spent. I hope this team does something to get us back behind them before this season is over.Hey pudge, yes, you and your Dark Cloud buddies are morons. I'll never understand the gutless cry of "Quit while we're ahead!!" :?:

A new tag for you:

:dumbass: