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Fenway
09-20-2005, 10:48 AM
http://www.ohio.com/images/logos/site/ohio/ohio/site_logo_340x60.gif (http://www.ohio.com/)

Terry Pluto

http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/sports/baseball/mlb/cleveland_indians/12692416.htm


Realize that the White Sox haven't so much collapsed as the Tribe has mounted an amazing charge to make these games big, real big.
Since August 1, the White Sox are 22-23. Not great, but not awful.

The Indians are 31-12, simply amazing.

The White Sox have the second-best record in all of baseball, the Indians are third best.

These are not only two of the most unlikely teams to be in this position during the final two weeks of the season, they are two most of the most deserving.
Hafner, Boone help close within 2 1/2 games (http://esp.realcities.com/a/hBDL-weAPnpgAAPtZGKAXOcWl8Y/ohci417)
White Sox hear Tribe coming (http://esp.realcities.com/a/hBDL-weAPnpgAAPtZGKAXOcWl8Y/ohci418)
Tribe attracting more attention in Chicago (http://esp.realcities.com/a/hBDL-weAPnpgAAPtZGKAXOcWl8Y/ohci419)
http://www.cleveland.com/images/toprail/newspaper.gif (http://www.cleveland.com/plaindealer/)
Central deficit shrinks (http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/sports/1127208646165580.xml&coll=2)
Late hits from Boone, Hafner cut Chicago's lead to 2.5 games
Box (http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/spnet.ssf?/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=advance&page=mlb/scores/final/boxscore.aspx?GAMEID=13565) | Photos (http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/photos) http://www.cleveland.com/sports/graphics/gallery.gif | MLB scoreboard (http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/spnet.ssf?/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=advance&page=mlb/scores/live/scoreboard.aspx?date=)

PD's Shaw: Sox are choking on the bad (http://www.cleveland.com/sports/plaindealer/bud_shaw/index.ssf?/base/sports/1127208823165580.xml&coll=2)

Insider: Guillen set for shot to slow Tribe (http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/sports/1127208827165580.xml&coll=2)

Tribe opens 2006 against White Sox (http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/sports/1127208942165580.xml&coll=2)

Hangar18
09-20-2005, 10:59 AM
Interesting. On a similar note, I got a call right before the game from a good friend who is a die-hard Indians fan. He was very gracious about the SOX and complimented them on all theyve accomplished, but he almost seemed to butter me up, to soften the blow to let me know he sees a sweep coming and his team being on top. I told him hey could happen, and their momentum is just too great right now. Another Indian fan offered the same respect last nite, as if they were apologizing for their team being so hot right now. I said hey, if our manager didnt overmanage, and we added some offense in the winter ............ and hey, cleveland stinks :angry:
Really weird .............. to have fans doing that to us

mdep524
09-20-2005, 11:07 AM
Realize that the White Sox haven't so much collapsed as the Tribe has mounted an amazing charge to make these games big, real big.
Since August 1, the White Sox are 22-23. Not great, but not awful.

The Indians are 31-12, simply amazing.

The White Sox have the second-best record in all of baseball, the Indians are third best.

These are not only two of the most unlikely teams to be in this position during the final two weeks of the season, they are two most of the most deserving. THANK YOU!! It takes someone outside of Chicago to use reason in the media. 22-23 is NOT collapsing!! The Sox have THE BEST RECORD IN THE AL!! It is not a collapse folks, the Indians have won at an amazing rate and earned their way back in the playoff picture- their record is better than Anaheim, Oakland, Boston and New York. Why isn't the media talking about them collapsing? Their playoff lives are more at stake than the Sox', and they've already been passed!!!

Frater Perdurabo
09-20-2005, 11:08 AM
I said hey, if our manager didnt overmanage, and we added some offense in the winter ............ and hey, cleveland stinks :angry:
Really weird .............. to have fans doing that to us

It's not the offense that has been the problem recently. This starting pitching staff has the ability and track record to win games when the offense scores five runs. This bullpen has the ability and track record to hold on to one-run leads.

Garcia and Marte simply didn't get the job done. He gave up too many walks. I can live with the hits and even the homers. But the Sox vaunted defense can't defend against the walk.

If the Indians had 15 hits last night, I'd have to tip my cap to them. But IIRC four of the runners they plated last night reached on walks. That's inexcusable and entirely preventable.

This team is built around pitching, and the pitching is what has let this team down.

Flight #24
09-20-2005, 11:20 AM
It's not the offense that has been the problem recently. This starting pitching staff has the ability and track record to win games when the offense scores five runs. This bullpen has the ability and track record to hold on to one-run leads.

Garcia and Marte simply didn't get the job done. He gave up too many walks. I can live with the hits and even the homers. But the Sox vaunted defense can't defend against the walk.

If the Indians had 15 hits last night, I'd have to tip my cap to them. But IIRC four of the runners they plated last night reached on walks. That's inexcusable and entirely preventable.

This team is built around pitching, and the pitching is what has let this team down.

Don't try and argue Frater, after the KC series and the over 6-runs/game, the same complaint was being made. "Don't confuse me with facts" seems to be the mantra.....

This team has been successful because of excellent starting pitching, excellent relief pitching, strong D and a decent O. Last night they got the latter 2 but not the former 2. End of story.

We need Buehrle to come up as vintage Mark tonight. There certainly shouldn't be any scoreboard lights tipping of the hitters!

Lip Man 1
09-20-2005, 11:54 AM
Mdep:

Just FYI from Jayson Stark's column on ESPN.com:

"But no team that started 62-29 or better ever finished its season by playing sub-.500 baseball for the rest of the season. The White Sox, we regret to report, are 28-30 since then."

Maybe we just are disagreeing over semantics but to me if you can't play .500 ball and lose either a division title and or a playoff spot, that's a collapse.

Lip

oeo
09-20-2005, 11:57 AM
The White Sox have the second-best record in all of baseball, the Indians are third best.

Wow, that AL Central really is weak.

daveeym
09-20-2005, 12:11 PM
Mdep:

Just FYI from Jayson Stark's column on ESPN.com:

"But no team that started 62-29 or better ever finished its season by playing sub-.500 baseball for the rest of the season. The White Sox, we regret to report, are 28-30 since then."

Maybe we just are disagreeing over semantics but to me if you can't play .500 ball and lose either a division title and or a playoff spot, that's a collapse.

Lip Hate to say it but I agree with ya Lip. Thank god for the wc if needed and knowing there is no WAY this team can pitch any worse in the playoffs.