PDA

View Full Version : *Official* DAMMIT 9/19/05 Postgame Thread


SOXfnNlansing
09-19-2005, 11:37 PM
The Indians looked tough. We battled and came up short tonight. We need to get 1 win minimum this series! Let's chalk it up as a learning experience. Jenks did give up the big hit, but we left alot of runners in scoring position. Tomorrow is another day as they say..........nice try PK, but you did have 2 hits and 2rbi

Unregistered
09-19-2005, 11:39 PM
**** the Indians. :angry:

SpartanSoxFan
09-19-2005, 11:39 PM
....For not being clutch if your friggen' life depended on it!!!! I am so pissed!

GO GET 'EM TOMORROW MARK!!!!!

MRKARNO
09-19-2005, 11:39 PM
Well, we've got ourselves a race...

Saracen
09-19-2005, 11:39 PM
**** Marte

Deuce
09-19-2005, 11:39 PM
I'm gonna go throw up...

DSpivack
09-19-2005, 11:40 PM
We will get 'em tomorrow. We BETTER get 'em tomorrow.

elrod
09-19-2005, 11:40 PM
Time for Mark to plunk the Pronk again tomorrow.

friarhky22
09-19-2005, 11:40 PM
**** marte!

CubsfansareDRUNK
09-19-2005, 11:40 PM
That was a well fought battle. Unfortunately, we gave this one to them via walks

A. Cavatica
09-19-2005, 11:40 PM
We need 3 of the last 5 against Cleveland.

peeonwrigley
09-19-2005, 11:40 PM
The Indians are a better team than us right now.

Their bullpen came through, ours did not.

ilsox7
09-19-2005, 11:40 PM
Tough one. MB needs to show he's an ace tomorrow.

Kogs35
09-19-2005, 11:40 PM
i really hate the toons. :angry: :angry: :angry:

The Dude
09-19-2005, 11:40 PM
**** the Indians. :angry:

Wow again. THe ****ing indians find another way to win a game. Will they ever lose?

SOXfnNlansing
09-19-2005, 11:40 PM
the mods are gonna have a field day with trolls tonight:angry:

Unregistered
09-19-2005, 11:40 PM
I guess that's what we get when Aaron Effin' Boone has 3 RBIs.

A.T. Money
09-19-2005, 11:40 PM
Marte is a bum. I count 4 of those 7 runs were walks. The others were the Hafner and Boone homers and the double by Martinez.

Parrothead
09-19-2005, 11:41 PM
Why is Marte in? Does he have pictures of Ozzie. Why not let Cotts go a little longer? And another crappy performance by Garcia. 2.5 games up and falling fast. Yes, I am a dark cloud.

A. Cavatica
09-19-2005, 11:41 PM
That was a well fought battle. Unfortunately, we gave this one to them via walks

I disagree about the well fought battle, we sucked. Ozzie blew this one.

tschneid83
09-19-2005, 11:41 PM
:angry:

nuff said

CubsfansareDRUNK
09-19-2005, 11:41 PM
2 an a half games..2 and a half games...:angry::angry::angry:

mr_genius
09-19-2005, 11:41 PM
....For not being clutch if your friggen' life depended on it!!!! I am so pissed!

GO GET 'EM TOMORROW MARK!!!!!

he drove in 2 of our 5 runs (moron)

santo=dorf
09-19-2005, 11:41 PM
Go back home Marte.

See you in Marlin teal in 2006.

Lip Man 1
09-19-2005, 11:41 PM
This was a very difficult loss to take because the Sox were four outs away from going up by 4 1/2 games.

They had their chances in the late innings to do something and didn't.

All you can do is forget it and hope for better things tomorrow.

One interesting stat which I submit for discussion is this, (I have no idea how it compares to other clubs...)

This is the 19th time this year the Sox have scored five runs or more and lost. It is the 5th time since September 9th.

I also imagine that Marte wasn't warmly received when he walked off the mound.

Sigh...

Lip

CubsfansareDRUNK
09-19-2005, 11:42 PM
I disagree about the well fought battle, we sucked. Ozzie blew this one.

offensively

Cowhead418
09-19-2005, 11:42 PM
I had already accepted the loss when it was 4-0. Now I'm all worked up and angry because the Sox gave me false hope. I would have preferred to lose 7-2.:angry:

DrCrawdad
09-19-2005, 11:42 PM
Wow again. THe ****ing indians find another way to win a game. Will they ever lose?

Apparently not tonight.

Now I've got to try and get some sleep...

kevingrt
09-19-2005, 11:42 PM
What are the chances we can open the floodgates aka turn off profanity filter

Unregistered
09-19-2005, 11:42 PM
1. Has Marte pitched every game since coming back from his "leave?"

2. Why?

Banix12
09-19-2005, 11:42 PM
It's all just frustrating. I think that's all I can say about this.

kevingrt
09-19-2005, 11:42 PM
I knew it would come down to PK in the 9th win or lose. Damnit i hate it when im right, GOD!!!!

paciorek1983
09-19-2005, 11:43 PM
Ya know, I'm less worried about this loss than I thought I'd be. The Sox were actually inthe game, and they're offense started to get it going again. I think they'll be fine, and I was one who was initially not excited about this series for negative reasons.:smile:

SluggersAway
09-19-2005, 11:43 PM
At least we died trying tonight, but I would've much rather have had a bunch of runs spread throughout the game rather than having to rely on one big inning.

I would've like to have seen more Cotts too.

A.T. Money
09-19-2005, 11:43 PM
Buehrle needs to be Buehrle tomorrow. And for some reason...that scares me too.

Cowhead418
09-19-2005, 11:43 PM
This was a very difficult loss to take because the Sox were four outs away from going up by 4 1/2 games.

They had their chances in the late innings to do something and didn't.

All you can do is forget it and hope for better things tomorrow.

One interesting stat which I submit for discussion is this, (I have no idea how it compares to other clubs...)

This is the 19th time this year the Sox have scored five runs or more and lost. It is the 5th time since September 9th.

I also imagine that Marte wasn't warmly received when he walked off the mound.

Sigh...

Lip
That stat makes me want to puke all over my computer.:angry:

akingamongstmen
09-19-2005, 11:43 PM
Ozzie: stop over-managing. This is getting absolutely ridiculous. Cotts pitched great, and then he brings in Marte. I get the Indians feed, and their announcers couldn't believe it.

I feel numb. *sigh* Go get 'em tomorrow.

CubsfansareDRUNK
09-19-2005, 11:43 PM
At least we died trying tonight, but I would've much rather have had a bunch of runs spread throughout the game rather than having to rely on one big inning.

I would've like to have seen more Cotts too.

i always wanna see more cotts

Shafe72
09-19-2005, 11:43 PM
His game-tying double was pretty clutch...would've been tough to have any kind of momentum without it.


There's no such thing as a good loss, but this one should light a fire under the team's collective rear-end (and make Ozzie think about bullpen use)...
Not an easy one to swallow though :whiner:

Domeshot17
09-19-2005, 11:43 PM
GOD OZZIE, THE WSI ROOM COULD MANAGE THIS TEAM BETTER.

ONE- WHY TAKE OUT COTTS WHO IS GOOD ON RIGHTIES IF YOU NEED SOMEONE TO FACE TO 2 LEFTIES NEXT.

TWO- YOU LOVE TIMO, WHY IN GODS NAME DID TIMO NOT HIT FOR DYE AND BUNT OZUNA OVER.

THREE- MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, WE WONT HAVE TO SEE DAMASO ANYMORE, AND WE CAN SEE COTTS AND POLITTE AND THE GUYS WHO ACTUALLY GET THE JOB DONE, BECAUSE 2ND HALF BASEBALL SEEMS TO BE " IF YOU SUCKED LAST NIGHT, YOU PITCH TONIGHT " IN OZZIE TERMS.

1st Half I liked that Ozzie manned up to his mistakes, and admitted when he blew it, 2nd half, its just another part of the post game.

bluestar
09-19-2005, 11:44 PM
1. Has Marte pitched every game since coming back from his "leave?"

2. Why?

My sentiments exactly. Many opportunities were missed, but I simply can't understand using Cotts to face one batter and then putting Marte in that situation.

mr_genius
09-19-2005, 11:44 PM
Buehrle needs to be Buehrle tomorrow. And for some reason...that scares me too.

Buehrle has been pathetic lately. I have no confidence in his ability to pitch a good game tomorrow.

A.T. Money
09-19-2005, 11:44 PM
All the momentum now is with Cleveland.

I have a good question....where the HELL was Cliff Politte?

Ozzie is really getting under my skins with all these "matchups". When will he learn that he can't pitch?

Jjav829
09-19-2005, 11:45 PM
What do you know; Another "biggest game of the season" game tomorrow...

I thought Ozzie mismanaged the 8th after Ozuna's double. Look, Bob Howry has been the best reliever in baseball in the second half. He's allowed 1 run in over 27 innings now. If you're counting on getting a hit off of him to take the lead, you're taking a big risk. Play for the one run. Get the bunt down and get Ozuna over to 3rd. Hope for a sac fly or ground ball that scores the run and escape with the tie. One bad bunt attempt by Dye and Ozzie takes the bunt off? Where was Timo? I'm not exactly a Timo Perez fan, but I thought the 8th was a perfect situation for him either to bunt the runner to 3rd or pinch hit for Rowand/Uribe. Howry versus Timo seemed like a pretty good matchup to me.
2.5 games back and the free-fall continues. Buehrle needs to step up tomorrow in the worst way.

veeter
09-19-2005, 11:45 PM
Ozzie's bullpen management was the game. He sucked. I'm proud of the offense. 2 out of 3 can be done. I think MB, who is a soft tosser at this point, is just the right answer.

Unregistered
09-19-2005, 11:45 PM
I had already accepted the loss when it was 4-0. Now I'm all worked up and angry because the Sox gave me false hope. I would have preferred to lose 7-2.:angry:
That's the beauty of the Sox. Just like the loss that last day in KC. Viz blows it, we get close enough to lose. Did anyone honestly expect Konerko to do anything in that last AB? I was praying like a little kid on Christmas Eve, but I sure as **** wasn't expecting him to do anything... :(:

Oh well - we'll get 'em tomorrow. **** the Indians and their celebrating like they won the World Series. We still lead this division, douchebags. :angry:

SpartanSoxFan
09-19-2005, 11:45 PM
Can Paulie get a clutch hit with men on base just ONCE in his worthless existence??? Seriously.

C'mon Mark! We need some shutout magic tomorrow!!!!!

shes
09-19-2005, 11:45 PM
Not that the loss was his fault, but Paulie + clutch AB w/ RISP = K or pop-up more than any other cleanup hitter I have ever seen.

And Ozzie still has not figured out how to manage a bullpen :mad:.

To pull out something positive, coming from 4-0 down against a very good pitcher to take the lead was very encouraging--I certainly was not expecting it.

paciorek1983
09-19-2005, 11:45 PM
I disagree about the well fought battle, we sucked. Ozzie blew this one.

Uh, no Ozzie didn't suck. Every pitcher who walked a batter sucked. That's what lost the game. When a guy is in to pitch, he better do his job. Some of these guys didn't do it tonight.

rwschm_bull
09-19-2005, 11:45 PM
MB has to turn his season around or folks are going to be pulling their hair out around here...

Where was Politte? Huge blown hold by Marte followed by a blown save for Bobby Jenks. As I said in the game thread, I'd much rather BJ blow a save here in his "trial by fire" than October 4th -- but let's face it, he's the closer right now. Dustin gives up another run (and shows little or nothing on his pitches most of the inning) to help salt it away.

Two pop ups with the tying run in scoring position with nobody out in the 8th...

Oh, and another "that why I'm just a frustratingly inconsistent middle-tier starting pitcher" start by FG -- half-way through and we're down 4-0 and fighting like hell to come back...

not going to win too many big games with an showing like that --

soxwon
09-19-2005, 11:45 PM
Wow again. THe ****ing indians find another way to win a game. Will they ever lose?

yea to the cards in the series!!!!

kevingrt
09-19-2005, 11:46 PM
Anyone know what Hawk said when PK popped out or the two run double? I had MLB.TV and Indians ****heads

shes
09-19-2005, 11:46 PM
Can Paulie get a clutch hit with men on base just ONCE in his worthless existence??? Seriously.

Heh, you beat me to it by a couple seconds.

shes
09-19-2005, 11:47 PM
Anyone know what Hawk said when PK popped out or the two run double? I had MLB.TV and Indians ****heads

Paulie pop-up = "It'll be Mark Buehrle against Jake Westbrook tomorrow night...."

elrod
09-19-2005, 11:47 PM
I'm pissed Jenks didn't go with another curve. Boone almost bit on the one that went only 50 feet. He's a great fastball hitter. Why not give him another chance to swing and miss at a curve.

mr_genius
09-19-2005, 11:47 PM
Can Paulie get a clutch hit with men on base just ONCE in his worthless existence??? Seriously.

C'mon Mark! We need some shutout magic tomorrow!!!!!

Dye didn't help much tonight either

atleast Paulie had a 2 out 2 run double (that is clutch, BTW)

MRKARNO
09-19-2005, 11:47 PM
Anyone know what Hawk said when PK popped out

*Ball in the Air*
:hawk
"It's Buehrle vs Westbrook tomorrow night at 7:05"
*Ball in mit*

kevingrt
09-19-2005, 11:48 PM
Paulie pop-up = "It'll be Mark Buehrle against Jake Westbrook tomorrow night...."


Was it right when he hit the ball or was he silent. God I luve Hawk

Cowhead418
09-19-2005, 11:48 PM
At this point all I care about is winning the division. I honestly don't care about how we do in the playoffs anymore. If we go three and out I won't get worked up over it. **** the goddamn Indians.:angry:

downstairs
09-19-2005, 11:48 PM
Anyone know what Hawk said when PK popped out or the two run double? I had MLB.TV and Indians ****heads

Yeah... he started announcing tomorrows starters.

He and everyone else knew the game was over when Cleveland went up 7-5.

You don't give up walks in late innings when its close. That is one of the very, very few things you can control in baseball.

You can't control "clutch" hits. You can't control the other team hitting them where they ain't. But you CAN control walks.

mrsamlowry
09-19-2005, 11:49 PM
They are clearly the better team right now. It is quite likely they will overtake the central, which still leaves us a good shot to win the wildcard. However, facts are facts, and this team will not do well in a playoff series, no matter which team we face. The Sox overachieved in the first half, and came down to earth in the second. The team we see now, is closer to reality than the team of the first half.

In the worst case scenario of not making the playoffs, the organization will be remembered for two things nationally, The Black Sox, and the biggest collapse in the history of the league. It will be awfully hard to mock Cub fans, with this albatross.

shes
09-19-2005, 11:49 PM
Was it right when he hit the ball or was he silent. God I luve Hawk

Literally a split second after he popped up.

downstairs
09-19-2005, 11:49 PM
If we go three and out I won't get worked up over it. **** the goddamn Indians.:angry:


Yeah you will.

:cool:

santo=dorf
09-19-2005, 11:49 PM
Not that the loss was his fault, but Paulie + clutch AB w/ RISP = K or pop-up more than any other cleanup hitter I have ever seen.
Just like his 5th inning double??? :rolleyes:

Domeshot17
09-19-2005, 11:50 PM
Dye was horrible tonight. His numbers lie so much. He has 20 of his 28 home runs solo. HE doesnt hit with Runners on. He didnt pull the bunt back, then he didnt bunt down 0-1.

The GOOD NEWS, we have all been saying all along, if we split these 6 with the indians, we are fine. That means we get to lose 3, I just hope the Sox realize that doesnt mean lose 3 right away. Lets go get the next 2, and take a 4.5 lead and a 7 to minnesota, sweep them, and pop the bubblee

The Dude
09-19-2005, 11:51 PM
....For not being clutch if your friggen' life depended on it!!!! I am so pissed!

Yeah it's all PK's fault....give me a ****ing break. How about Freddy's ****ty pitching, Marte's ****ty pitching, Jenks ****ty pitching, Hermy's ****ty pitching, leadoff hits that die at 1st, or 2nd, ****ty managing decisions by Ozzie....oh yeah it's PK's fault.

Jerko
09-19-2005, 11:51 PM
We may be the only team baseball who has a lefty specialist that can't get lefties out, and has a manager that watches it happen OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER again. ****, even Terry Mulholland, all 398 year of him, can get a lefty out now and then. I'm kind of getting to the point where I'm getting sick of getting upset over this ****. Now is not the time to be cute, Ozzie, and you don't have a 15 game lead to play with anymore to make your little favorites look good. Too bad Hermanson is hurt, that's the only reason Ozzie took this piece of **** back on the team. Oh, the no-out bunt with one on and the 8 and 9 hitters coming up worked wonders too.

MRKARNO
09-19-2005, 11:52 PM
The most obnoxious part about all of this is that everyone but us Sox fans want it (blowing the division) to happen. There really is no way to deny it.

shes
09-19-2005, 11:52 PM
Just like his 5th inning double??? :rolleyes:

Sorry, I meant in late inning (7+) situations. Probably should have clarified.

EDIT: and re: the 2b, even a blind squirrel eventually finds a nut.

mph32
09-19-2005, 11:52 PM
Thanks for coming back Marte...so glad you can get leftys out. Ozzie will bring him out again tomorrow and Wed. Ozzie LOVES him

mr_genius
09-19-2005, 11:52 PM
Just like his 5th inning double??? :rolleyes:

He won't answer that, some of the people on this board are completely clueless.

alumbrados
09-19-2005, 11:53 PM
Proud of the Sox, coming back and not laying down like Cubs, er dogs.

Sox still win the division.

Palehose13
09-19-2005, 11:54 PM
Am I the only one who felt that I just watched a hard fought playoff type game? Sure, I'm not happy with the result, but the Indians did not blow the Sox away by any means. I'm still confident. If it was say, 7-1, I might be over the edge like some of you. After tonight's reaction I wonder how are some of you ****ers going to handle a game 5 or a game 7?

shes
09-19-2005, 11:54 PM
He won't answer that, some of the people on this board are completely clueless.

No, I guess he won't. Check 2 posts above yours.

You're right about the clueless part, though.

billyvsox
09-19-2005, 11:54 PM
This is disgusting. I think sometimes Ozzie dosen't know what to do with the bullpen.

Cotts 2 batters - 2 outs (removed)
Viz 1 batter - 1 out (removed)
Marte (you know the rest)

It's like he keeps changing to see who will FAIL, when guys who are warmed up and got big outs get removed.

Jenks had Boone 0-2 and *****'d around with the curve (remember these are the Indians who refused to swing at Shingo's frisbee, and they were not gonna swing at any offspeed stuff----they just SIT on fastballs) Victor Marinez did the same against Marte. He ends up going 2-2, lets Boone back in the count and he kills a fastbal down. JUST BLOW THEM AWAY BOBBY, I dont care if he fouls back 15 pitches. Throw high and hard!!

Furthermore all this bullpen manuevering means nobody knows their role anymore. (Was Jenks in there to set-up or to close) I thought Politte was the set-up guy. Was Cotts in to get out only lefties?? why bring anyone in foe 1 out (Viz). This sux.

Offensively, I said about 4 weeks ago that if we slump or stop executing it will be because we Strike Out and POP-UP way way way too much. I rest my case!

Timo should have definately hit for DYE and bunted or you ******'n insist that Dye gets the bunt down (Pop-Up)

delben91
09-19-2005, 11:55 PM
For some reason a strange calm has come over me.

I'm not sure what that means, but I much prefer it to freaking out like I was last week.

Jjav829
09-19-2005, 11:55 PM
Am I the only one who felt that I just watched a hard fought playoff type game? Sure, I'm not happy with the result, but the Indians did not blow the Sox away by any means. I'm still confident. If it was say, 7-1, I might be over the edge like some of you. After tongiht's reaction I wonder how are some of you ****ers going to handle a game 5 or a game 7?

It seemed nothing like a playoff game to me. And a loss is a loss. Who cares if it was 7-1 or 7-5. This team is playing bad baseball. In the first half of the year this team found ways to win games. Now they find ways to lose games.

akingamongstmen
09-19-2005, 11:56 PM
Seriously, lay off Paulie. His double couldn't have been more "clutch." Him popping out in the 9th was not the reason that we lost. I would also add that nobody has any business getting on Jenks. That guy has pitched his heart out for us time and time again, and he was put into a terrible situation. For the record, I'd rather see Politte in there in the future (for the experience factor). We don't need a talent like Jenks to turn into a head-case.

Cowhead418
09-19-2005, 11:56 PM
The worst part of all this is that now I have to homework in an insanely bad mood...

shes
09-19-2005, 11:56 PM
The most obnoxious part about all of this is that everyone but us Sox fans want it (blowing the division) to happen. There really is no way to deny it.

Obnoxious, yes, but if and when we do clinch it will be THAT much sweeter.

Lip Man 1
09-19-2005, 11:56 PM
Palehose 13:

Well at this point I'd be glad to have the chance to see a game #5 or game #7 down the line.

Lip

mr_genius
09-19-2005, 11:56 PM
No, I guess he won't. Check 2 posts above yours.




he was typing his post at the same time as me

DSpivack
09-19-2005, 11:57 PM
Proud of the Sox, coming back and not laying down like Cubs, er dogs.

Sox still win the division.

Proud of what, a loss? Sox fans aren't proud after a loss.

DMarte708
09-19-2005, 11:57 PM
Tell me again why I shouldn't be concerned about this ballclub?

Anyone else rather infuriated this team's pitching put together a terrible outting in such a pivotal game? We absolutely need the pitching to be stellar with this offense--which surprisingly showed up.

MRKARNO
09-19-2005, 11:58 PM
Am I the only one who felt that I just watched a hard fought playoff type game? Sure, I'm not happy with the result, but the Indians did not blow the Sox away by any means.

P13, we had the chance to end this division race right then and there for the most part. We fricking blew it and there really isn't a way around that. The key now is not to get swept and leave the lead at 2.5. Getting out of this series with an extended lead went from a goal to a dream in a four batter sequence. We still have a great shot to win this division, but we had the opportunity to really do some good things this series and now we're just going to have to try and save face. It ain't over till it's over because even if we're down a small going into the last series, we can still win the division.

Palehose13
09-19-2005, 11:58 PM
It seemed nothing like a playoff game to me. And a loss is a loss. Who cares if it was 7-1 or 7-5. This team is playing bad baseball. In the first half of the year this team found ways to win games. Now they find ways to lose games.

Hmmm...ok. Packed house. Intense game. On the edge of my seat with almost every pitch. I guess it's just me.

mr_genius
09-19-2005, 11:58 PM
Proud of what, a loss? Sox fans aren't proud after a loss.

exactly

Jerko
09-19-2005, 11:58 PM
I'm not "proud" to "stay close" against a team we were 10-3 against coming in. I know they are on a hot streak but I'm really not too impressed. If they do make the playoffs, they'll pull a Twins, or a 2000 Sox.

Deuce
09-19-2005, 11:58 PM
I'm disappointed in the loss, but I am lifted by the level of play. Ozzie lost this one. Cotts and Polite do not get enough time on the mound at all. They have great numbers, and where were they. No, lets bring the guy who sucks (Viz), the guy who has played three days in a row (Marte), and the guy who is hurt (Hermanson). Bad moves by Ozzie, and it cost us big.

As much as I hate to admit it, Jjav was right about pinching Timo for Dye. If for nothing else, an attempt at a bunt would have been much better than trying to hit off of Howry. Not that I think Timo would have done it, but at least he could have tried. Better than Dye trying to bunt, at least.

Bad move, Ozzie. Even the morons at ESPN thought so... and they are morons!

Deuce

DickAllen72
09-19-2005, 11:58 PM
I've been taking a lot of crap from people at work lately and it's going to be even worse tomorrow! I can't wait for the Sox to clinch this division so I can stick it right back in their faces! And they better not try to jump on the bandwagon if the Sox make the WS!!!

On a side note, after Hawk's brutal job once again tonight, I'm hoping the Sox fire Hawk after the season and announce John Rooney has been hired to do the Sox TV play by play with DJ.

flo-B-flo
09-19-2005, 11:58 PM
When the Sox jumped out to the start they did, I was ecstatic. The only thing that nagged at me was that you have to play games that matter at the end or you will not be sharp at the end.

I never imagined Cleveland rampaging like they did after the all-star game. Or the Sox running in place waiting to play post season.

Well now the games REALLY matter. You gotta scratch and fight every game.

Tonight was such a game. Tomorrow will be the next installment in Sox history.

tune in

mr_genius
09-20-2005, 12:00 AM
I can't believe this team is about to choke up a 15.5 game lead in less than 2 months.

Jjav829
09-20-2005, 12:00 AM
Tell me again why I shouldn't be concerned about this ballclub?


Because we still have a 5 game...err 4.5 game....err 3.5....errr 2.5 game lead. :whiner:

You should be concerned. If you're not concerned, you need a reality check.

Mohoney
09-20-2005, 12:00 AM
I feel really bad for Marte right now. I don't know how Martinez hit that pitch for a double, but he got around on it very well.

These really are two mid-90 win teams going at it right here. The resiliency we showed battling back from 4-0 was great to see, but Cleveland is able to one-up us with Aaron Boone coming up huge not once, but twice.

Mark Buehrle, we need you buddy. You need to be our answer to Travis Hafner.

billyvsox
09-20-2005, 12:00 AM
I honestly believe the Tribe will not lose another game until they clinch a playoff spot. Do you really think the Royals will even win once this weekend against them. With Elvis Hernandez and Lima-time scheduled to start the first two games??

tstrike2000
09-20-2005, 12:00 AM
There's still hope with a 2.5 game lead, right??

mph32
09-20-2005, 12:01 AM
Timo should have definately hit for DYE and bunted or you ******'n insist that Dye gets the bunt down (Pop-Up)


Great point

shes
09-20-2005, 12:01 AM
I just hope if we win tomorrow the emotions will be just as strong. I'll be there and the Sox haven't lost a game I've attended in 4+ years (14-0). Hopefully, the trend continues.

We are still up 2.5 games right?

chidonez
09-20-2005, 12:03 AM
I just hope if we win tomorrow the emotions will be just as strong. I'll be there and the Sox haven't lost a game I've attended in 4+ years (14-0). Hopefully, the trend continues.

We are still up 2.5 games right?

I tend to get very superstitious down the stretch. And I just want to say, thank you for attending tomorrow's game.

mr_genius
09-20-2005, 12:03 AM
You should be concerned. If you're not concerned, you need a reality check.

or you

1) don't really care if the sox win or lose

2) are still on that whole "i hate dark coulds" thing

3) haven't seen a game in about 3 months

lumpyspun
09-20-2005, 12:05 AM
Howry talked all that trash and then went out there and made a mockery of us in a key situation...

Also, call me a sore loser, but Hafner has to be on 'roids. That dudes head is way too big and his shoulders are huge. He's kind of built like Rowand, but he hits the ball hard and Rowand hasn't hit a long ball since 1987.

Dan H
09-20-2005, 12:05 AM
Buehrle has been pathetic lately. I have no confidence in his ability to pitch a good game tomorrow.

I don't either. Starting pitching, with the exception of Contreras, has been bad for a month. Sox just can't play when they are behind. They came back tonight but it wasn't enough.

This team is in bigger trouble than I thought. Cleveland is mucn better than I thought. The Sox don't just need one of the next two, they need them both.

Buehrle really does need to find it tomorrow. The Sox won't win with a sub-par six inning stint from their starter. They haven't played like a division winner for six weeks. They can start any time now.

Cowhead418
09-20-2005, 12:05 AM
Great to see you step it up in a big game Freddy.:rolleyes:

Mohoney
09-20-2005, 12:06 AM
I'm disappointed in the loss, but I am lifted by the level of play. Ozzie lost this one. Cotts and Polite do not get enough time on the mound at all. They have great numbers, and where were they. No, lets bring the guy who sucks (Viz), the guy who has played three days in a row (Marte), and the guy who is hurt (Hermanson). Bad moves by Ozzie, and it cost us big.

As much as I hate to admit it, Jjav was right about pinching Timo for Dye. If for nothing else, an attempt at a bunt would have been much better than trying to hit off of Howry. Not that I think Timo would have done it, but at least he could have tried. Better than Dye trying to bunt, at least.

Bad move, Ozzie. Even the morons at ESPN thought so... and they are morons!

Deuce

To be honest, I would have done everything EXACTLY the way Ozzie did tonight. The pitch Victor Martinez doubled on wasn't anywhere close to the strike zone, and Broussard ended up striking out, so I don't see how bringing in Marte cost us. And if you didn't want Bobby Jenks in there for Boone in the 8th, then you're nuts.

shes
09-20-2005, 12:06 AM
I tend to get very superstitious down the stretch. And I just want to say, thank you for attending tomorrow's game.

If we win, I plan on taking full credit.

If we lose, eh, well, I'm just a fan. I'm not the one on the field playing the game, deciding the outcome. Nuthin' to do with me.

:cool:

HotelWhiteSox
09-20-2005, 12:06 AM
For everyone who wondered outloud why us fans would be happy about Marte being kicked off the team for the year, maybe tonight showed you why.

No use in having an arm for the sake of having an arm when that arm is ineffective, you might as well as extend Viz. I don't know if he can't handle pressure or if he is being misused as a left handed specialist when he seems afraid to pitch to lefties, he can't be trusted in any critical situation.

As frustrating as this was, this was the game I expected them to lose out of the 3, Westbrook and Elarton don't scare me. I thought Millwood would shut us down, but I give credit for the offense scoring more than 4. The pitching gets the blame tonight, as bad as it might sound, with this team built the way it is and reliant on pitching, the whole staff can't give up more than 4 a game. I still think we'll win the division and will do well in the division however. No matter what you see in the standings, Cleveland has been the hottest team in all of baseball for months, and we had hung with them and had them towards the end, which I think is decently good when the pitching isn't dominant. Also, I liked the offense not folding under pressure with a big crowd and a lot of energy. The loss sucks, but the pitching didn't come through and the Sox still had them, but then the pen blew it, and I'm not going to base the future on one game out of 6, and one pitching matchup. This is why I think we'll do well in the postseason.

The Dude
09-20-2005, 12:06 AM
We are still up 2.5 games right?

Yeah at least we're not the Red Cubs...they are only a half game up on the Yanks. Oh yeah I forgot, the Yankees arent the hottest team in baseball.

On a totally side note, this has totally ****ed me for my exam tomorrow...I cant even think straight and am shocked that I havent had my Cub roomates pounding on my door yet....

I hope we see CyBurly:D: tomorrow and not BlahBurly:whiner:. We need ya Mark!

:burly
"Dont worry guys, we'll get that lead back to 3.5 and magic number down to 9"

Palehose13
09-20-2005, 12:08 AM
Because we still have a 5 game...err 4.5 game....err 3.5....errr 2.5 game lead. :whiner:

You should be concerned. If you're not concerned, you need a reality check.

Then I guess I need a reality check. This team has been a roller coaster ride this season. People were freaking out in August, but then there was an 8 game win streak to start September and then everyone seemed to be ok. Hit a rough patch and everyone freaks out again. This team is going to the playoffs and I don't give a **** how they get in. It's a clean slate on October 4th. They may play like ****. They may play awesome. Who ****ing knows? But right now I have the visions of the playoffs dancing in my head and knowing that the Sox are one of eight teams that get to compete for the World Championship makes me just a lil bit happy.

If you guys want to piss and moan and get all worked up while the team is still in first and still the #1 seed in the AL fine. Ok, I can hear you now, "But what if...This team sucks...yadda, yadda, yadda." I still have faith. If I'm a fool, I'm a fool, but at least I don't have to drink alka seltzer right now.

Cowhead418
09-20-2005, 12:08 AM
IF we can win the next two games we'll be in great shape. But admittingly it doesn't look too good right now from my perspective. On the bright side Buehrle and Garland ARE good pitchers (Buehrle is so due for a good start) while Westbrook and Elarton suck. We can take these next two. At least one is key though.

Lip Man 1
09-20-2005, 12:10 AM
Palehose 13:

I admire your dedication. I gave up Alka Seltzer long time ago. For me... I have to use Asulphadine.

Lip

oeo
09-20-2005, 12:10 AM
Yeah at least we're not the Red Cubs...they are only a half game up on the Yanks. Oh yeah I forgot, the Yankees arent the hottest team in baseball.

I said it back to July, the Yankees will win the East. I think they're in more trouble than we are in the playoff race.

But anyway, what a terrible game...we had this game won. The Indians do not look as tough as they're made out to be, we won that game if it wasn't for Ozzie and the bullpen. I think I'm comfortable in saying that I'm not afraid of these next two games at all, we SHOULD win this series and it should have been a sweep.

veeter
09-20-2005, 12:11 AM
Ozzie continues to boggle the mind. Back from commercial to start the eighth and Viz is in. What? I guarantee the team looked around and were confused also. I really think Ozzie is choking. If Jenks gets out of the eighth, he then would have pitched the ninth. This would have ensured him not pitching tomorrow. Closers need to be available everyday. Ozzie just threw a wrench into everything tonite.

shes
09-20-2005, 12:13 AM
Yeah at least we're not the Red Cubs...they are only a half game up on the Yanks. Oh yeah I forgot, the Yankees arent the hottest team in baseball.

On a totally side note, this has totally ****ed me for my exam tomorrow...I cant even think straight and am shocked that I havent had my Cub roomates pounding on my door yet....

I hope we see CyBurly:D: tomorrow and not BlahBurly:whiner:. We need ya Mark!

:burly
"Dont worry guys, we'll get that lead back to 3.5 and magic number down to 9"

Well, my point is that despite everything that has happened we're still in good shape. If we split the next two (which is probable w/ Burly and Garland going) the 2.5 gm lead sticks and 2 games fall off the schedule. After that, we have 7 games against faltering clubs in Minnesota and Detroit. We should be fine.

If we get swept, however, I recant everything. :cool:

BNLSox
09-20-2005, 12:14 AM
I had already accepted the loss when it was 4-0. Now I'm all worked up and angry because the Sox gave me false hope. I would have preferred to lose 7-2.:angry:

When we were down 4-0 I felt the division was gone... When we came back and took the lead I saw that not only can we beat the Indians, but we may be the only team in the AL that actually can handle them.

Ozzie mismanaged the pitching a bit, Garcia was less than splendid, and Aaron really beat the crap out of us, but there was a lot of silver lining in this loss and we're still 2.5 up with only two weeks remaining.

Still in 1st guys, and we saw a little bit of the Sox we've grown to love this year... a little bit.

Palehose13
09-20-2005, 12:16 AM
When we were down 4-0 I felt the division was gone... When we came back and took the lead I saw that not only can we beat the Indians, but we may be the only team in the AL that actually can handle them.

Ozzie mismanaged the pitching a bit, Garcia was less than splendid, and Aaron really beat the crap out of us, but there was a lot of silver lining in this loss and we're still 2.5 up with only two weeks remaining.

Still in 1st guys, and we saw a little bit of the Sox we've grown to love this year... a little bit.

Thank goodness. Someone else that isn't on the edge! Welcome aboard! :D:

Ekwall
09-20-2005, 12:17 AM
The scary thing is that right now every other team in the AL has more reason to be concerned about missing the playoffs than us. I guess that's what makes baseball great. Oh, and Aaron Boone has now officially exceed the career limit for number of clutch hits in big games by a mediocre thrid baseman. I hate that guy. :angry: :angry: :angry:

kaufsox
09-20-2005, 12:18 AM
Am I the only one who felt that I just watched a hard fought playoff type game? Sure, I'm not happy with the result, but the Indians did not blow the Sox away by any means. I'm still confident. If it was say, 7-1, I might be over the edge like some of you. After tonight's reaction I wonder how are some of you ****ers going to handle a game 5 or a game 7?

I'm with you PH13. It felt like a playoff loss. Trust me, the Sox are not going to go undefeated in the post season. The big thing the next two nights is that the Sox best pitchers of the season(yes, I know not as much lately) are going. THEY HAVE TO STEP IT UP!!! If not, well, let's not go there. Buerle v. Westbrook, make it just like opening day!

TheOldRoman
09-20-2005, 12:18 AM
If I had any fine china in my house, I would be like a bull in a china shop right now. I have a couple of baseball bats, and and extreme urge to smash things, but there is nothing in my room worth trashing.

I am worried, but I will say this. This afternoon, when everyone was thinking rationally, most people agreed that this was the one game that Cleveland had the best chance to win. We only needed to win 2 games in this series, and most people would be happy if we won 2 of 3. Nothing has changed. Garcia pitched like crap, Marte ripped out hearts out, and should put his condo for sale tomorrow, and an injured Hermanson gave up a run when he shouldn't have been pitching. Our offense did its part. We scored 4 off a very good pitcher, and got a big homer off of "the best bullpen ever". We are a better team than Cleveland. We will win tomorrow and Wednesday. Chill.

elrod
09-20-2005, 12:18 AM
The worst part is waiting through all day tomorrow, telling myself that I refuse to watch the game, and then giving in and watching it and getting angry. This team has LITERALLY driven me insane. I wish it was just a one and out thing. Get it over with. Either we go on or we don't. The day-by-day, drip-drip is torture.

Dan H
09-20-2005, 12:19 AM
Ozzie continues to boggle the mind. Back from commercial to start the eighth and Viz is in. What? I guarantee the team looked around and were confused also. I really think Ozzie is choking. If Jenks gets out of the eighth, he then would have pitched the ninth. This would have ensured him not pitching tomorrow. Closers need to be available everyday. Ozzie just threw a wrench into everything tonite.

I don't like some of the moves Ozzie has made recently, but it would be nice if his players executed. When are the Sox going to get a decent start out of Garcia? Will it happen this season?

Lip Man 1
09-20-2005, 12:21 AM
QUOTE OF THE EVENING:

"If you play like we did tonight, we didn't lose the game. They beat us." --Ozzie Guillen.

:?:

Come again? The Sox had a 5-4 lead with two outs in the 8th inning. Sure looks like the Sox lost this one to me.

Lip

samram
09-20-2005, 12:22 AM
Thank goodness. Someone else that isn't on the edge! Welcome aboard! :D:

There's no point being on the edge when there's nothing any of us can do. Just watch the games and have fun.

santo=dorf
09-20-2005, 12:23 AM
I don't like some of the moves Ozzie has made recently, but it would be nice if his players executed. When are the Sox going to get a decent start out of Garcia? Will it happen this season?
*****.

Where were you when he pitched against the Twins at the HHH dome?
Yankee Stadium?
4-11 Jacobs Field?
At Wrigley?
Against the Cubs at home?
Retiring 22 in a row a Coors field?
6-30 at Comerica?
9-02 against the Tiggers?

Sheesh.....:rolleyes:

veeter
09-20-2005, 12:23 AM
QUOTE OF THE EVENING:

"If you play like we did tonight, we didn't lose the game. They beat us." --Ozzie Guillen.

:?:

Come again? The Sox had a 5-4 lead with two outs in the 8th inning. Sure looks like the Sox lost this one to me.

Lip Ozzy's fried.

mph32
09-20-2005, 12:23 AM
Did anyone else thing the home plate ump sucked tonight? I thought he had a small strike zone, then again maybe it was The U's great picture and I could not see the zone myself.

mr_genius
09-20-2005, 12:25 AM
Did anyone else thing the home plate ump sucked tonight? I thought he had a small strike zone, then again maybe it was The U's great picture and I could not see the zone myself.

I wouldn't blame this on the umpire.

Iron Dragon
09-20-2005, 12:25 AM
The Indians do not look as tough as they're made out to be.

Um, what? They get out to a 4-0 lead, have a HUGE momentum swing and trail 5-4, then come back and score 3 over the last TWO innings to win 7-5. Oh yeah, they did this against the team with the best record in the AL ON THE ROAD in front of a large, loud crowd. I'd say they're pretty tough.

mph32
09-20-2005, 12:27 AM
Oh no, dont get me wrong. I was just asking about the home plate ump. Sox lost and deserved to lose, their bullpen kicked our bullpens ass. They dont walk anyone, and can get out of a lead off double jam

sox7235
09-20-2005, 12:28 AM
I actually thought that Ozzie made all the right decisions with the pen tonight, except for Viz instead of Politte, but that worked out. I would balme the umpire, the zones were completely different for The Sox and Indians, with the Indians getting the benefit of the doubt, IMO.

Palehose13
09-20-2005, 12:28 AM
So which is it? The Sox blew it or Cleveland beat us? IMO, they beat us. Sure they could have played better or made better pitches but Cleveland got the hits when they needed to. Remember, this team that is far superior had the only error of the game which helped the Sox have their four-run inning. I just want to make sure I have this right...when the Sox win, they are lucky. When someone beats the Sox, the Sox blow it and give them the game. Did I get the philosophy that some of you follow correct?

CHISOXFAN13
09-20-2005, 12:29 AM
Hmmm...ok. Packed house. Intense game. On the edge of my seat with almost every pitch. I guess it's just me.

It wasn't just you. Anyone who says this wasn't a playoff-like atmosphere has never attended a playoff game.

cheeses_h_rice
09-20-2005, 12:31 AM
Just got back from the Cell, where about a dozen WSIers helped Hangar 18 celebrate his 25th :wink: birthday, and the Sox disappointed.

I pin this game on Garcia and Marte, mostly, and secondarily on Jenks for not getting Boone when he had him down 0-2. The Sox fought back, thanks to some shoddy outfield defense by the Jndjans, and when Crappy Carl morphed back into Crazy Carl with his monster jack in the 7th, I thought the game would end up a W. However, I don't blame Ozzie for using Marte as he did, even after he gave up the first walk. It was just one of those games where the Jndjans just proved to be the worthier foe.

I'm inclined to intentionally walk Travis Hafner every single at-bat for the remainder of the series, too. Mercy.

Another disappointing loss with a huge crowd. And people were really going nuts when the Sox tied it up, like they were thirsty for blood.

2.5 back. Never thought it would come to this. Sox need to take at least one of the next 2 or all bets are off for a playoff appearance.

cheeses_h_rice
09-20-2005, 12:34 AM
Also, one funny scene as I exited the park. A Hummer was coming out of the player's lot onto 35th Street (this was less than 10 minutes after the game ended), and people were murmuring that it was Kenny Williams, who had his windows down, and he apparently said some nasty words to this guy with a Jndjans jersey next to me who was walking in front of his car.

It's no buffet table flipping, but apparently KW was not pleased with the results tonight.

TheOldRoman
09-20-2005, 12:34 AM
Um, what? They get out to a 4-0 lead, have a HUGE momentum swing and trail 5-4, then come back and score 3 over the last TWO innings to win 7-5. Oh yeah, they did this against the team with the best record in the AL ON THE ROAD in front of a large, loud crowd. I'd say they're pretty tough.
No, I agree with him. They went up 4-0 on a bad effort by Garcia. He is a much better pitcher than he showed tonight (or even recently). We then rocked their best pitcher, and scored off their vaunted bullpen. Marte promptly gave the game away. I honestly believe that we gave the game to them. They didn't beat our best, and they didn't look like worldbeaters. People watch them beat KC 11-0 and are dumb enough to think that they are going to win the rest of their games this season. We hung with "the hottest team in baseball". This was the one game of the series that they had the pitching advantage, and they won it. Im not saying Cleveland sucks, but I am saying that they didn't look unbeatable. They looked like a team that will drop its next two games.

Parrothead
09-20-2005, 12:34 AM
What is it about a big crowd that the Sox lay an egg? I know someone in past had their record with home crowds over 30k. Is there an update?

mr_genius
09-20-2005, 12:35 AM
Sox need to take at least one of the next 2 or all bets are off for a playoff appearance.

totally


the crowd did sound crazy on tv, too, cheeses.

peeonwrigley
09-20-2005, 12:35 AM
Hafner looks like the bad guy in a movie.

Look for me at the Cell tomorrow. I'll be the guy doing the Randy Quaid impression from Major League :D:

Sargeant79
09-20-2005, 12:37 AM
**** Marte

What he said.

Palehose13
09-20-2005, 12:38 AM
2.5 back. Never thought it would come to this. Sox need to take at least one of the next 2 or all bets are off for a playoff appearance.

Really? Wow. I didn't realize that 0.5 games in first puts a team out of the playoffs or that other teams with less wins (New York, Oakland) would knock the Sox out of the wildcard lead if the Indians happened to overtake the division. Is this some new type of magic number?

ElDuque26
09-20-2005, 12:38 AM
one thing that really has been getting to me is tadahito's K count. he is getting his hits but you just wish that he could put the ball in play and not strike out 3 times...hes just gotta get the bat on the ball even if its an out...let them make the mistake

Mohoney
09-20-2005, 12:39 AM
Did anyone else thing the home plate ump sucked tonight? I thought he had a small strike zone, then again maybe it was The U's great picture and I could not see the zone myself.

He was giving the outside corner to both starters against the rightys. Millwood grabbed it a few more times than Freddy did.

Freddy looked tentative, afraid to throw the backdoor curveball to some of the lefty hitters. Much like Mark has looked tentative about throwing that backdoor changeup to rightys. You HAVE to go with the pitches that have gotten you this far. You can't change on the fly.

These guys can turn it around, but they HAVE to get more aggressive in pitchers' and neutral counts and throw their best pitches, like Contreras has done.

When Mark has his backdoor change, Freddy has his biting curve, and Jon has his heavy sinker, they can be dominant, much like Contreras has been with his forkball. But they also need to locate, and that's where you can do nothing more than hope and pray.

I have faith that Don Cooper will get these guys in the right mindset. After all, the most mentally fragile starter that we have is Contreras, and look at what Cooper has done with him.

BeviBall!
09-20-2005, 12:41 AM
Just got back from the game and the crowd was awesome. Loudest it has been all year, until Marte and Aaron Boone. Then it was the loudest silence I've ever heard, anywhere.

Fact of the matter is that Cleveland is a better second half team than we were a first half team.

How does Cotts feel that he's given up one run all second half and still plays second fiddle to a guy who has almost 2 more runs on his ERA and was kicked off the team as little as a few days ago? I'm so glad Viz was brought in to face Jhonny Peralta!!! Everyone in section 105 were shocked when Neal didn't come out to pitch in the 8th.

cheeses_h_rice
09-20-2005, 12:41 AM
Really? Wow. I didn't realize that 0.5 games in first puts a team out of the playoffs or that other teams with less wins (New York, Oakland) would knock the Sox out of the wildcard lead if the Indians happened to overtake the division. Is this some new type of magic number?

:rolleyes:

Have you looked at the Sox and Indians' remaining schedules?

Of the 5 games left between the Sox and Indians, the White Sox need to win 2 of those at the very least. Unless you trust the Royals to do the Sox's bidding, I'd be wishing for the same thing.

Frankfan4life
09-20-2005, 12:43 AM
Tough loss. But, I have to give props to the crowd tonight. They were really loud and into the game. We need to have the same enthusiasm throughout the series.

Sox fans, you rate!

D. TODD
09-20-2005, 12:45 AM
I just got back from the game. Damn tough loss, but we have to keep things in perspective. 12 games left and we have a 2 1/2 game lead on the Tribe, 4 on the Yanks, and hell 3 1/2 on a struggling Red Sox team. We will have to play well, but there is much less room for error from the other three teams chasing us. I'll be back at the Cell tomorrow. The crowd was great tonight, let's hope for the same atmosphere with a better result. Time for a big win tomorrow night.

Hafner & Martinez are a tough 1-2 punch, it will be key for Mark to come up big . LETS GO SOX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

sox7235
09-20-2005, 12:46 AM
I give props to the team. They battled back, took the lead, and came up just short. Cleveland doesn't scare me, what was so special about them?

Palehose13
09-20-2005, 12:46 AM
:rolleyes:

Have you looked at the Sox and Indians' remaining schedules?

Of the 5 games left between the Sox and Indians, the White Sox need to win 2 of those at the very least. Unless you trust the Royals to do the Sox's bidding, I'd be wishing for the same thing.

I agree that they need to take 2 of 6 for the division. But I think you are being a little extreme by saying that the Sox won't make the playoffs at all if they don't win one of the next two. I agree that they aren't in good shape to win the division if they get swept, but I don't see them not making the playoffs unless they only win 2 or 3 games the rest of the season.

Lip Man 1
09-20-2005, 12:48 AM
Palehose 13:

I have often given credit to the Sox for playing tough games, sometimes ugly but getting the win. That's what good teams do. I'm sorry when you take a lead into the 7th inning or later you win them. Period.

By the way for the record, this is the 12th time this season the Sox have lost a game when leading in the 7th inning or later. It's the 2nd time in less then a week. I don't know how that compares to other teams in baseball so I can't tell you if that is good, bad or average...it is what it is.

It would be nice to have that number only at say nine right now.

We lost this game. We lost it because the bullpen wasn't sharp but more importantly with four runners on base in the final two innings the Sox got zero home. Unfortunately that has been par for the course for the season. I think the Sox rank last in the league in average with runners in scoring position. Better luck tomorrow is all we can hope for.

Lip

cheeses_h_rice
09-20-2005, 12:49 AM
I agree that they need to take 2 of 6 for the division. But I think you are being a little extreme by saying that the Sox won't make the playoffs at all if they don't win one of the next two. I agree that they aren't in good shape to win the division if they get swept, but I don't see them not making the playoffs unless they only win 2 or 3 games the rest of the season.

I just said "all bets are off" if they don't win at least one of the next two, meaning that I wouldn't bet on the Sox making the playoffs if they get swept this series.

All along I've said how key it was for the Sox to just split the 6-game series, and now I'd settle for 2 out of 6. I don't count on the Sox taking 2 of 3 in Cleveland the last weekend of the year, so they need to take one game at the Cell.

whitesoxruleall
09-20-2005, 12:50 AM
I feel sick to my stomach. We all want this team to win the division so badly. I had to take a walk after the game was over and just cool off for awhile. This team has been my favorite baseball team since I was seven years old. I had the Frank Thomas jersey and other whitesox gear.

I don't understand why people give this team so much crap no matter how they are doing. We all know that the White Sox is the real baseball team in Chicago and I am sure they are tired to always being looked at as second rate to the Cubs. I am tired (as I am sure many of you are) of getting crap from Cubs or Indians fans. It is time to shut them up once and for all. I too was in disbelief when he brought Marte out tonight. It is so stressful to even watch the gameday. Go get em tomorrow White Sox!!

BeviBall!
09-20-2005, 12:50 AM
Pablo getting stranded after his leadoff double was inexplicable. If you want to bunt him over, than PH for Dye. Otherwise, Jermaine is hitting with an 0-1 count. Ozzie just can't figure out what his players can and can't do.

Mohoney
09-20-2005, 12:50 AM
I know that Bobby Jenks will get another chance at a save in this series. Let's see what he does.

I guarantee that he remembers that pitch to Boone, and throws any 0-2 or 1-2 pitch up and out of the zone, where triple digit heat does the most damage to a hitter.

Bobby made a bad pitch tonight. He also saved our hides twice against the Twins in Minnesota. If there's a save situation tomorrow, I want him on the hill, matchups and apprehensions be damned.

Lip Man 1
09-20-2005, 12:50 AM
Sox 7235:

Ummmm...could it be that they have won six straight, 13 of 14 and are 33-11 since August 1st? Plus they have four more games (errr wins) versus the Royals and three more with Tampa.

Just wondering.

Lip

Palehose13
09-20-2005, 12:50 AM
I just said "all bets are off" if they don't win at least one of the next two, meaning that I wouldn't bet on the Sox making the playoffs if they get swept this series.

All along I've said how key it was for the Sox to just split the 6-game series, and now I'd settle for 2 out of 6. I don't count on the Sox taking 2 of 3 in Cleveland the last weekend of the year, so they need to take one game at the Cell.

Well then I interpret "all bets are off" differently than you. I'm having a hard time understanding why everyone is freaking out. The Sox are in the best position than everyone else in the AL with very little time left.

kitekrazy
09-20-2005, 12:51 AM
We know Cleveland isn't invincible. They had their opportunites to make things worse with Freddy in.

This isn't the first time we've seen Marte wet his pants in a clutch situation. He's just not consistent enough to please me. But Jenks proved he's still a rookie and a year away from being a premier closer. Don't forget Cotts came close to serving one up.

Dye needs to work on his bunting. Most managers don't have a guy with 28 HRs bunting. It was a wasted strike.

Should they move Iguchi out of the 2nd spot? He's lookin bad. Carl doesn't help things either in the 3rd spot.

I can't give Cleveland credit for winning this game. It was given away.

Still even if the Sox take the next 2, the Twins can't be taken lightly. They don't lay down and die for the Sox. Every game is important. The Twins series probably worries me more if the Sox go in a half game ahead.

BeviBall!
09-20-2005, 12:52 AM
I just said "all bets are off" if they don't win at least one of the next two, meaning that I wouldn't bet on the Sox making the playoffs if they get swept this series.

All along I've said how key it was for the Sox to just split the 6-game series, and now I'd settle for 2 out of 6. I don't count on the Sox taking 2 of 3 in Cleveland the last weekend of the year, so they need to take one game at the Cell.

All bets are off. I agree 100%. When we have to face Santana/Radke/Liriano and Cleveland goes to AA Royalville... all bets are absolutely off.

Lip Man 1
09-20-2005, 12:53 AM
Well Santana goes Thursday and the Sox simply haven't been able to get to him this year especially in the second half. That is a real concern.

Lip

CHISOXFAN13
09-20-2005, 12:53 AM
Palehose 13:

I have often given credit to the Sox for playing tough games, sometimes ugly but getting the win. That's what good teams do. I'm sorry when you take a lead into the 7th inning or later you win them. Period.

By the way for the record, this is the 12th time this season the Sox have lost a game when leading in the 7th inning or later. It's the 2nd time in less then a week. I don't know how that compares to other teams in baseball so I can't tell you if that is good, bad or average...it is what it is.

It would be nice to have that number only at say nine right now.

We lost this game. We lost it because the bullpen wasn't sharp but more importantly with four runners on base in the final two innings the Sox got zero home. Unfortunately that has been par for the course for the season. I think the Sox rank last in the league in average with runners in scoring position. Better luck tomorrow is all we can hope for.

Lip

How many times have the Sox rallied for a win after trailing in the same scenario? I would be willing to bet it's more than 12, but you forgot to include that.

kitekrazy
09-20-2005, 12:53 AM
Sox 7235:

Ummmm...could it be that they have won six straight, 13 of 14 and are 33-11 since August 1st? Plus they have four more games (errr wins) versus the Royals and three more with Tampa.

Just wondering.

Lip

Tampa can't be taken lightly. They haven't made it easy for playoff potential teams.

sox7235
09-20-2005, 12:54 AM
Sox 7235:

Ummmm...could it be that they have won six straight, 13 of 14 and are 33-11 since August 1st? Plus they have four more games (errr wins) versus the Royals and three more with Tampa.

Just wondering.

Lip

They are playing good no doubt about it. But, they didn't look like the invincible Indians they have been built up to be. Maybe I used a bad choice of words, but really, they didn't look unbeatable.

peeonwrigley
09-20-2005, 12:55 AM
Well then I interpret "all bets are off" differently than you. I'm having a hard time understanding why everyone is freaking out. The Sox are in the best position than everyone else in the AL with very little time left.

People are not freaking out about the position the team is in, but instead the way our play has deteriorated recently. Namely, our pitching.

TheOldRoman
09-20-2005, 12:56 AM
Well Santana goes Thursday and the Sox simply haven't been able to get to him this year especially in the second half. That is a real concern.

Lip
Oh god no! I guess we will have to settle for winning 3 of 4, just like we settled for winning 2 of 3 IN THE METRODOME. You never cease to amaze, Lip.

fahQ
09-20-2005, 12:56 AM
Wow, is everyone here unwilling to admit Ozzie put this game on the line with Damaso. Were so quick to panic and put the blame squarely on Marte, but is it possible that the MANAGER might have made yet another mistake. I can recall a time around may when he put in Kevin Walker to lose a couple of games and it was still all Kevin's fault. The problem is that these guys should have never been put in this situation in the first place. Everyone on God's green earth seems to know leftys tear apart Dusty but he had to come in give up a loss in KC and now at home. It's just my two cents but Ozzie hasn't done everything he can to win a pretty good amount of these games.

StillMissOzzie
09-20-2005, 12:56 AM
I gotta admit, I was somewhat encouraged in that:

1) Freddy only gave up 1 in the 1st
2) Sox came back from a 4-0 deficit, something they haven't done in a while
3) Even had a late inning lead

Buehrle-Mon, we need you to step up big time tomorrow. A win tomorrow and it erases the effect of tonight's game. Sox GOTTA win one of these 3 games!

SMO
:(:

Edit: If one more butt-head points out that the Sox are still 10-4 vs. the Tribe, I'm gonna hurl. With 5 more games against them, the Sox are already assured a season series victory, but at this point, it may be a very hollow victory.

Lip Man 1
09-20-2005, 12:57 AM
Chisoxfan 13:

The answer to your question is 16.

However this bears noting, they haven't had a come from behind (7th inning or later) win since July 30th at Baltimore. In that same span they have lost three games when leading in the 7th inning or later, two in less then a week.

The pitching staff was the strenght of this club. Right now they are faltering badly.

Lip

Mohoney
09-20-2005, 12:58 AM
Pablo getting stranded after his leadoff double was inexplicable. If you want to bunt him over, than PH for Dye. Otherwise, Jermaine is hitting with an 0-1 count. Ozzie just can't figure out what his players can and can't do.

It's not inexplicable, but it IS inexcusable. I didn't really want them to give up an out when they were down 6-5 and bunt him over. I wanted Dye, Rowand, and Uribe to all have a shot at getting a base hit to both tie the game AND get a runner on to try and take the lead. Bobby Howry got all 3 of them out.

SOMEBODY needs to come through there.

You are 100% right about Dye, though. If you're going to leave Dye in, then swing away instead of just giving up a strike like that.

TheOldRoman
09-20-2005, 12:58 AM
Tampa can't be taken lightly. They haven't made it easy for playoff potential teams.
Actually, they are one of the hottest teams in baseball lately, and have won 4 of 6 against the Indians in the second half. 3 more easy wins for the unbeatable Indians.

Iron Dragon
09-20-2005, 12:59 AM
No, I agree with him. They went up 4-0 on a bad effort by Garcia. He is a much better pitcher than he showed tonight (or even recently). We then rocked their best pitcher, and scored off their vaunted bullpen. Marte promptly gave the game away. I honestly believe that we gave the game to them. They didn't beat our best, and they didn't look like worldbeaters. People watch them beat KC 11-0 and are dumb enough to think that they are going to win the rest of their games this season. We hung with "the hottest team in baseball". This was the one game of the series that they had the pitching advantage, and they won it. Im not saying Cleveland sucks, but I am saying that they didn't look unbeatable. They looked like a team that will drop its next two games.

The Sox rocked "their best pitcher" with the help of a Cleveland error.

They didn't beat our best? Jenks, who some could argue has been our best bullpen arm recently, gave up the losing 2-run single.

We hung with the hottest team in baseball only to blow it at the end.

Why do you think Cleveland looks like it will drop its next 2 games? I don't get that at all. They've only won their last 6 in a row. The lead could be 0.5 games just as easily as it could be 4.5 after Wednesday. First-half Buehrle better be on the mound tomorrow.

kitekrazy
09-20-2005, 01:00 AM
QUOTE OF THE EVENING:

"If you play like we did tonight, we didn't lose the game. They beat us." --Ozzie Guillen.

:?:

Come again? The Sox had a 5-4 lead with two outs in the 8th inning. Sure looks like the Sox lost this one to me.

Lip

"If you manage like I did tonight, we sure lost the game. They didn't beat us." --Ozzie Guillen.


There, that looks much better.

mterraza
09-20-2005, 01:00 AM
Can someone please explain to me WHY OZZIE LEFT MARTE ON THAT MOUND IN THE 8TH!!!??? :?: It seems like everyone except ozzie knew Marte was all over that plate. UnF**knbelievable!

Lip Man 1
09-20-2005, 01:01 AM
Roman:

I'd be more then happy if you could 'guarantee' me that the Sox will win three of four.

My point was that the Sox have major difficulties against Santana. The odds of a win that night aren't the best. At this point in the season with so few games remaining, with the magic numbers for clinching the division and or a post season berth crawling down, every game, every win is important.

It's not like there are forty games left is there?

Lip

kitekrazy
09-20-2005, 01:04 AM
I have faith that Don Cooper will get these guys in the right mindset. After all, the most mentally fragile starter that we have is Contreras, and look at what Cooper has done with him.

According to a Tribune article, El Duce gets the credit-not Cooper. Should wew give Cooper credit for most of the staff not being their best the 2nd half. Isn't this a trademark that the Sox staff gets rocked the 2nd half? Part of me thinks Cooper gets a free pass too often.

mdep524
09-20-2005, 01:05 AM
I'm pissed Jenks didn't go with another curve. Boone almost bit on the one that went only 50 feet. He's a great fastball hitter. Why not give him another chance to swing and miss at a curve. A good question. I have a sneaking suspicion they were afraid to go with a curveball because it might get by Pierzynski. AJ's a good game caller and a good hitter for a catcher, but he's let A LOT of balls get by him with runners on third this year, mostly from Contreras or Freddy. That had to be in the back of their mind.

BeviBall!
09-20-2005, 01:06 AM
A good question. I have a sneaking suspicion they were afraid to go with a curveball because it might get by Pierzynski. AJ's a good game caller and a good hitter for a catcher, but he's let A LOT of balls get by him with runners on third this year, mostly from Contreras or Freddy. That had to be in the back of their mind.

Sitting in the outfield, everyone was yelling for the hammer. I'm confounded as to why he didn't throw another one.

TFLEM33
09-20-2005, 01:07 AM
Tough loss tonight guys, but look at it this way. We gave this game away. Cleveland did not come into the Cell and outclass us tonight. We played with the hottest team in baseball, and frankly, even though we are playing crappy overall of late we ARE better than them. Ozzie made some questionable decisions with the pen tonight. (I still haven't figured out why Cotts only pitches to one or two batters.) Afterall, prior to joining the Sox, he was primarily a starter. It's not like he doesn't have the arm strength. Also, all of you who are bashing Paul Konerko are totally ignorant. He is the only guy on our team that is a true RBI threat. Sure he pops up a lot with runners on, but if you take a look at the stat sheet, there has been 92 times that he has been pretty darn successful. That is not a shabby number. Quit bashing the team! Rally behind them!

Anyway, like someone said earlier in this thread, I too have a sense of calm now, and I am someone who freaks out about every baserunner the opposition gets. Buerhle will show up tomorrow. We WILL win. Go SOX! Show these clowns who the AL Central champs are tomorrow. Send them home crying to their mothers.

CHISOXFAN13
09-20-2005, 01:09 AM
Roman:

I'd be more then happy if you could 'guarantee' me that the Sox will win three of four.

My point was that the Sox have major difficulties against Santana. The odds of a win that night aren't the best. At this point in the season with so few games remaining, with the magic numbers for clinching the division and or a post season berth crawling down, every game, every win is important.

It's not like there are forty games left is there?

Lip

Just going to assume that the light hitting Twins are going to light up McCarthy, too? *****.

Lip Man 1
09-20-2005, 01:13 AM
Chisoxfan 13:

In his last two starts against the Sox, Santana's allowed how many runs again?

Who said anything about 'lighting up' McCarthy? The way Santana's had the Sox number it would only take two or three wouldn't it?

Feel free to take shots at me for something I actually said, I never mentioned McCarthy pitching good or bad.

Like I told Roman, at this stage of the season EVERY win is important. If the Sox somehow can beat him I'll be estatic.

Lip

chisoxmike
09-20-2005, 01:22 AM
Hmmm...ok. Packed house. Intense game. On the edge of my seat with almost every pitch. I guess it's just me.

I was at the game too, let me tell you all that wernt there...

Every fan there knew how big this series was. They were standing and cheering for everything. When the Sox tied the game, the place was going nuts, and when Carl hit the home run the game looked all but over and there were nothing but smiles on everyones faces. When Aaron ****ing Boone hit that single, the air flew out of the place it wasn't even funny.

Walking out of the park was slience. Indian's fans where on the phone talking and laughing with their friends. It was painful.

This team needs to man up and snap out of it. It's almost impossible to do overnight but stranger things have happend...

Vernam
09-20-2005, 01:49 AM
Am I the only one who felt that I just watched a hard fought playoff type game? Sure, I'm not happy with the result, but the Indians did not blow the Sox away by any means. I'm still confident. If it was say, 7-1, I might be over the edge like some of you. That pretty well sums it up for me. The boys didn't roll over, that's for sure. Yeah, I wish Ozzie had left Cotts in there, the way he's left Jenks in for more than one inning on several occasions. Where is it written that a lefty reliever can't face a righty hitter?

Tough loss, but in no sense did Cleveland have their way with us. Wickman looked vincible in the ninth, and they never capitalized on Freddy's lack of command.

VC

paciorek1983
09-20-2005, 01:51 AM
Am I the only one who felt that I just watched a hard fought playoff type game? Sure, I'm not happy with the result, but the Indians did not blow the Sox away by any means. I'm still confident. If it was say, 7-1, I might be over the edge like some of you. After tonight's reaction I wonder how are some of you ****ers going to handle a game 5 or a game 7?


No. You're not the only one. I thought they responded pretty well to a team that is really hot right now. The Indians don't scare me anymore. I wouldnt be surprised if we ended up splitting the last 6 games at worst. The Indians have to start cooling off soon. And they will. Hopefully it will be against us.

Vernam
09-20-2005, 01:53 AM
According to a Tribune article, El Duce gets the credit-not Cooper. Should wew give Cooper credit for most of the staff not being their best the 2nd half. Isn't this a trademark that the Sox staff gets rocked the 2nd half? Part of me thinks Cooper gets a free pass too often.Duque had Jose pitching really well in New York, didn't he? :rolleyes:

VC

goodsy72
09-20-2005, 02:01 AM
Lot's of negative vibes tonight. Yes I know some of it's warranted , but just remember a wise man once said ," It ain't over, till it's over" and my schedule says it ain't over till October 2. This team has won 90 games so far , that's pretty damn good. Yes I want to win the divsion , but goddamn the Indians are the best team in baseball at this moment bar none. Even if they do overtake us , I still think the wild card is coming from the central. Once the playoffs start, anything can happen in a 5 or 7 game series , just ask the 03 Cubs , (ha ha, still makes me smile). I know I'll probably take a lot of **** for not being a dark cloud like the rest of you ,but I don't care , I love my Sox , for better or for worse , and believe me most of my life it's been worse , but being Sox fans you already know that. So come on all you fair weather fans , suck it up, get a freakin' spine, and have a little faith. Oh yeah almost forgot , Go MB do that voodoo that you do so well !!!

soltrain21
09-20-2005, 02:04 AM
Lot's of negitive vibes tonight. Yes I know some of it's warranted , but just remember a wise man once said ," It ain't over, till it's over" and my schedule says it ain't over till October 2. This team has won 90 games so far , that's pretty damn good. Yes I want to win the divsion , but goddamn the Indians are the best team in baseball at this moment bar none. Even if they do overtake us , I still think the wild card is coming from the central. Once the playoffs start, anything can happen in a 5 or 7 game series , just ask the 03 Cubs , (ha ha, still makes me smile). I know I'll probably take a lot of **** for not being a dark cloud like the rest of you ,but I don't care , I love my Sox , for better or for worse , and believe me most of my life it's been worse , but being Sox fans you already know that. So come on all you fair weather fans , suck it up, get a freakin' spine, and have a little faith.


I think the problem most people have is that it SHOULD already be over. It was a 15 game lead.

Skippy
09-20-2005, 02:12 AM
What was that?


At least the 12-inch polish with onions I ate in the club level was good.

Exciting game, especially when they tied it at 4, but ***?

I was stuck next to a couple of Indians fans, too. They weren't too obnoxious.

The one idiot was wearing a Cubs hat and an Indians jersey. :angry:

I am now officially preparing myself for a White Soxless October. :whiner:

alumbrados
09-20-2005, 02:19 AM
Proud of what, a loss? Sox fans aren't proud after a loss.

Proud of the team for coming back. Bullpen blew it, but the bullpen's been one of our strengths. Don't take your frustration out on me.

IowaSox1971
09-20-2005, 03:01 AM
With the situation we're in, blowing a game like this was the worst possible way to lose. This gives Cleveland confidence that they can beat us even when they're on the ropes in a tight game on the road. They got the go-ahead hit off of Jenks, who is supposed to be our lights-out closer. Then Howry shuts us down in the eighth, even though we had a man on second and no outs. Then they got an insurance run off Hermanson, who had been our closer. Then, even though we threaten a bit in the ninth, Wickman handles Konerko with the game on the line.

I think we'll be lucky to win a game in this series against such a hot and confident team. And I agree with Lip Man that Thursday's game most likely will be a loss, too, unless McCarthy somehow keeps the game scoreless until Santana leaves the game. We could be out of first place by Thursday or Friday. With Kansas City apparently intending to do all it can to help Cleveland, we might have to hope for the wild card, but that's no sure thing either. If we can blow a 15-game lead, we sure can blow a four-game lead with 13 to play.

I really am not sure why so many people remain so optimistic about this. We lost the same type of game to the Angels in a series-opening game earlier this month and we ended up getting swept. And Cleveland is playing a lot better now than the Angels were then.

Taliesinrk
09-20-2005, 03:59 AM
With the situation we're in, blowing a game like this was the worst possible way to lose. This gives Cleveland confidence that they can beat us even when they're on the ropes in a tight game on the road. They got the go-ahead hit off of Jenks, who is supposed to be our lights-out closer. Then Howry shuts us down in the eighth, even though we had a man on second and no outs. Then they got an insurance run off Hermanson, who had been our closer. Then, even though we threaten a bit in the ninth, Wickman handles Konerko with the game on the line.

I think we'll be lucky to win a game in this series against such a hot and confident team. And I agree with Lip Man that Thursday's game most likely will be a loss, too, unless McCarthy somehow keeps the game scoreless until Santana leaves the game. We could be out of first place by Thursday or Friday. With Kansas City apparently intending to do all it can to help Cleveland, we might have to hope for the wild card, but that's no sure thing either. If we can blow a 15-game lead, we sure can blow a four-game lead with 13 to play.

I really am not sure why so many people remain so optimistic about this. We lost the same type of game to the Angels in a series-opening game earlier this month and we ended up getting swept. And Cleveland is playing a lot better now than the Angels were then.


Ok... my Prozac just kicked in; perhaps I could send you some.. Nonetheless, perhaps you're looking at this in the wrong way.. perhaps this gives the White Sox confidence that they can beat Cleveland (the hottest team in baseball) while not playing close to their "A" game.

And in regards to your reference of the September 9 game against LA may also be a bit off in my opinion. There was a game in which the next two pitchers in the series were JG (solid) and Orlando (not so much). You could already chalk-up game 3 to LA. Instead, this series, we now have MB and JG (who else would u want) going for the next two games. On top of it all, Jenks and Politte had been used extensively (Jenks - 3 IP) and therefore were probably not in the best shape going into the next two. This was a game we fought hard in, made some mistakes, and lost.

All in all, I think this could be a positive game for the Sox in the long run, and shows that they're still in everygame without question. One hit several times, or one pitch, and we're telling Bobby Howry what he can say about the Sox and their Fans. All I'm saying is that I'm looking forward to tomorrow...

ode to veeck
09-20-2005, 07:51 AM
To be honest, I would have done everything EXACTLY the way Ozzie did tonight. The pitch Victor Martinez doubled on wasn't anywhere close to the strike zone, and Broussard ended up striking out, so I don't see how bringing in Marte cost us

I dunno, everyone I know was totally dumbfounded when Viz came in, asking why Neil didn't stay in after throwing 10 strikes in only 15 pitches to close out the previous inning. Marte could barely find the plate, walked the tyeing run on before the double, and then barely struck out Broussard on what would have been ball four.

A great move by Ozzie to PH Ozuna, but as Jjav pointed out in the chat, Timo's about 1000 times better bunter than Dye who is much less able to lay down a bunt than he is to hit the cutoff man, but we're all second guessing here. If Dye get the big hit, he'd be the hero this morning.

ode to veeck
09-20-2005, 07:55 AM
The pitching staff was the strenght of this club. Right now they are faltering badly.


er yea, like the 2-1 W they posted the other night

Here's to Burly-mon coming up with a tough W when needed, like he's done so many times before in the last 5 years.

daveeym
09-20-2005, 08:13 AM
I want this team to stop thinking of the games and go out there with the goal TO SCORE FIRST, like in the damn first half, the game will take care of itself after this. I swear seems like they've scored first in all of 10 games this second half. There's your stat to compare between the halves for what THE SOX have or haven't done.

harwar
09-20-2005, 08:23 AM
Its the indians who are now scoring first in almost all of their games.
I got the cleveland feed last night and they kept ramming that fact down my throat.
That and a graphic that showed how bad our pitching has been since the break and how good theirs has been.
We have pretty much switched places with them in just about eveyway.
That being said i think we win the division anyway because,now matter what the stats say,i firmly believe that we are the better team.

Mohoney
09-20-2005, 08:29 AM
With the situation we're in, blowing a game like this was the worst possible way to lose.

I have to disagree. The worst way to lose this game would have been 5 innings of corpseball after Shrek's home run made it 4-0. The worst way to lose it would have been to see Freddy completely implode and give up 2 or 3 more runs while the offense shows no fight whatsoever on the way to a 7-1 defeat.

This series is clearly showcasing the 2 best teams in the AL. That was proven tonight. This game was tooth and nail from the 5th inning on, and we looked way better in this game than we looked in any of the previous 6 against KC and Minnesota. One of these two clubs is going to represent the AL in the World Series, and you can book that.

If Mark gets the job done tonight (and I know that it's a BIG if), then we're looking damn good for the rubber game with Garland vs. Elarton, which is the REAL must win of this series.

If Mark lays an egg, then by all means hit the panic button.

DaveIsHere
09-20-2005, 08:48 AM
If we win tonight, we still have a chance to take the series which is our goal.


Paulie had the pitch to win it last night and popped it up!!

Deuce
09-20-2005, 08:48 AM
Its the indians who are now scoring first in almost all of their games.
I got the cleveland feed last night and they kept ramming that fact down my throat.
That and a graphic that showed how bad our pitching has been since the break and how good theirs has been.
We have pretty much switched places with them in just about eveyway.
That being said i think we win the division anyway because,now matter what the stats say,i firmly believe that we are the better team.

Harwar, you must be a graduate of the "Hangar18 School of Paragragh Posting." :redneck

Deuce

greenpeach
09-20-2005, 08:51 AM
Ok... my Prozac just kicked in; perhaps I could send you some.. Nonetheless, perhaps you're looking at this in the wrong way.. perhaps this gives the White Sox confidence that they can beat Cleveland (the hottest team in baseball) while not playing close to their "A" game.

And in regards to your reference of the September 9 game against LA may also be a bit off in my opinion. There was a game in which the next two pitchers in the series were JG (solid) and Orlando (not so much). You could already chalk-up game 3 to LA. Instead, this series, we now have MB and JG (who else would u want) going for the next two games. On top of it all, Jenks and Politte had been used extensively (Jenks - 3 IP) and therefore were probably not in the best shape going into the next two. This was a game we fought hard in, made some mistakes, and lost.

All in all, I think this could be a positive game for the Sox in the long run, and shows that they're still in everygame without question. One hit several times, or one pitch, and we're telling Bobby Howry what he can say about the Sox and their Fans. All I'm saying is that I'm looking forward to tomorrow...

Can I have some of your Prozac ???? I said in an earlier thread that this team wouldn't win more than four more games the rest of the season & I'm sticking by my prediction.

Plain & simple, the Indians are the better team right now.

Deuce
09-20-2005, 08:54 AM
:prozac

Pass it down.

BeviBall!
09-20-2005, 09:00 AM
God... just saw the highlights for the first time. It's too bad Paulie can't hit hanger's like Sweeney can :(:

Hangar18
09-20-2005, 09:20 AM
Pablo getting stranded after his leadoff double was inexplicable. If you want to bunt him over, than PH for Dye. Otherwise, Jermaine is hitting with an 0-1 count. Ozzie just can't figure out what his players can and can't do.

Ive already got this team figured out. Marte (insert expletive here). He should be on a short leash and Ozz gambled here. Ozunas double was Huge, but the out afterwards making it one out was even more huge. We just dont have the smart hitting and offense. We gave up way too much in the offseason and now its coming back to hurt us. Where would we be if we had a 1-2 punch like Hafner and Martinez? All we have is Konerko ....... and hes streaky! If we had a Carlos Lee in this lineup, we win some of these games. If Ozz quit resting people ...... and took every game seriously .......
instead of "B" lineups ............ We lost yesterday because Freddie couldnt keep the INdians from scoring early ..........and Ozzie overmanaged his bullpen again.

MsSoxVixen22
09-20-2005, 09:22 AM
**** Marte


I second that! :gulp: to Gooch, Pods, Crede and my man Aaron for getting the offense started! Mark, you've got your work cut out for you tonite buddy. Go get 'em! And Ozzie, man you piss me off sometimes. When he brought in Marte, my Dad and I were like oh ****. I dunno WHY he didn't leave Neal in there alittel longer or hell, even Viz. He pitched pretty good! Lets take these next two and hopefully Mark and Jon ate their Wheaties! :redneck

greenpeach
09-20-2005, 09:27 AM
On my way to work this morning, I turn on the local sports talk radio show & instead of talking about football the co-hosts are talking about "the greatest collapse in baseball history". Of course, they're not talking about the '51 Dodgers or the '64 Phillies, no they happen to be talking about our 2005 Chicago White Sox. Even in the heart of football country I can't get a moments peace. Sheeesh.

If we do lose, I would hate to be Brooks Boyer this Winter. Can you imagine trying to market this team in 2006 ????

Baby Fisk
09-20-2005, 09:29 AM
God dammit! I thought we mailed Marte to Alaska! :angry:

God dammit! It's not that Konerko ISN'T clutch, which we all know by now, it's his pathetic theatrics when he KNOWS he's blown another clutch situation. :angry:

:walnuts
"What can I say? I'm big on drama."

Are you big on health care too? because you gave me horrible stomach pains last night you bum! :angry:

I just want to spend the next 12 days in bed like Brian Wilson. :mad:

Rocky Soprano
09-20-2005, 09:35 AM
It was a tough game to stomach. The Sox put up a fight and came back, which was good to see.

Marte killed us by giving up the walk and a double.

Konerko, even though he did come up with a big double, he just sucks in the clutch. As soon as he came up in the 9th, I started watching something else cause I knew he would not come through.

Well hopefully we win these next two.

Rocky Soprano
09-20-2005, 09:38 AM
If we had a Carlos Lee in this lineup, we win some of these games.

Do you have some kind of crystal ball?

I forget, how many games did Carlos Lee win for us all these past years?
No Carlos Lee = No Pods, and maybe a few other players, which means the Sox probably wouldn't even have such a great record this year.

harwar
09-20-2005, 09:40 AM
Harwar, you must be a graduate of the "Hangar18 School of Paragragh Posting." :redneck

Deuce

No,i graduated from "the school of hard knocks',would you like a lesson?

Shorty1983
09-20-2005, 09:45 AM
I been feeling like crap this whole month.

I can't think at work, I can't sleep, I just can't take this anymore!

Pop 2 asprin tablets and a shot of Johnny Walker. :(:

BeviBall!
09-20-2005, 09:52 AM
Konerko, even though he did come up with a big double, he just sucks in the clutch. As soon as he came up in the 9th, I started watching something else cause I knew he would not come through.


Wickman pitched around Everett, to bring the winning run to the plate. That's how many people know PK doesn't do it in the late innings. His reaction was pathetic. Makes AJ's bat tossing seem minor.

BeviBall!
09-20-2005, 09:53 AM
Do you have some kind of crystal ball?

I forget, how many games did Carlos Lee win for us all these past years?
No Carlos Lee = No Pods, and maybe a few other players, which means the Sox probably wouldn't even have such a great record this year.

Lee's second half hasn't been all that much better than Pods. Don't put this on Lee, put this on the fact we didn't add anyone after Frank went down.

harwar
09-20-2005, 09:59 AM
No need to get violent there, Harwar. I was simply making light that your posting style resembles Hangar's, which was a common topic in the past. Nothing to throw out threats about, especially on an internet board, which makes them as fear-inspiring as a wet noodle.

Deuce

I guess it came across wrong.
I was joking.
No threat intended.
Threats are meaningless unless you are face to face.

BeviBall!
09-20-2005, 10:01 AM
I guess it came across wrong.
I was joking.
No threat intended.
Threats are meaningless unless you are face to face.

The whitesox.com message board would disagree with you! :D:

Frater Perdurabo
09-20-2005, 10:04 AM
When I recapped the end of the game for my wife this morning (she was asleep by 9:30 p.m. last night while I listened on XM), as soon as I mentioned "Marte came in the game," she groaned.

Even my wife, who isn't a baseball fan, but who has watched a few Sox games on WGN this season, knows that "Marte = bad news for the Sox." Anyone with two functioning brain cells can see that "Gas Can" Marte is terrible.

Seriously, *** is a guy who simply can't get lefties out doing in the Sox bullpen? More significantly, what is a bullpen pitcher who gives up a walk and a double before recording an out doing on the mound? *** is Ozzie's problem?
I've been a critic of Paulie earlier this season and in previous years. But I don't blame him for popping out to end the game. I also doubt that Carlos Lee would have fared better in such a situation. Paulie would not have been in that situation if not for Marte's idiocy.

ode to veeck
09-20-2005, 10:05 AM
:tomatoaward: :tomatoaward:

Two hundred replies in the post game thread and its actually read-able for once, even after a tough important loss (well other than a troll or two)

I think the problem most people have is that it SHOULD already be over. It was a 15 game lead.

Yep that's the hard part in a nutshell, but it ain't been over and with 2.5 game lead with 14 to play and a bunch against the Tribe on our heels, it's still got a ways to go yet ...

Deuce
09-20-2005, 10:06 AM
I guess it came across wrong.
I was joking.
No threat intended.
Threats are meaningless unless you are face to face.

Oops! Sorry about that... guess I'm a bit touchy with the recent ups and downs. I'll erase my responce.

:redface:

RedHeadPaleHoser
09-20-2005, 10:12 AM
I think the problem most people have is that it SHOULD already be over. It was a 15 game lead.

Yep...but as others have said, it's not that lead anymore, but it's still on...KW said it best..."we still control our own destiny". And, until they no longer do, I'm in.

daveeym
09-20-2005, 10:12 AM
God dammit! I thought we mailed Marte to Alaska! :angry:

God dammit! It's not that Konerko ISN'T clutch, which we all know by now, it's his pathetic theatrics when he KNOWS he's blown another clutch situation. :angry:

:walnuts
"What can I say? I'm big on drama."

Are you big on health care too? because you gave me horrible stomach pains last night you bum! :angry:

I just want to spend the next 12 days in bed like Brian Wilson. :mad: Ya hey dere, yoo really shouldn't need to worry about healthcare up der, YA?

Baby Fisk
09-20-2005, 10:17 AM
Ya hey dere, yoo really shouldn't need to worry about healthcare up der, YA?Ya, but the bastards make you pick up your free pills and won't deliver them. I was just at the emergency room last week with a sore throat. If Tylenol 3s only grew on trees, we'd never complain about anything, what with the killer bomb Crown Royal cocktails you can brew with them. This is getting way off topic, eh? Konerko sucks. :angry:

daveeym
09-20-2005, 10:22 AM
*** is Ozzie's problem?
:ozzie
Yo mang, I had to show I had Martes back.


Seriously, *** you could tell Ozzie was fighting himself over bringing him in AT ALL. Thinking man we could really use this guy if he's right in the head in the playoffs buuut, damn I really don't want to use him.

Then I almost puked when Marte walked in the dugout and everyone ran up to him and patted him on the back and cheered him on while he's throwing a temper tantrum cuz he sucked. It was so creepy. I know as a player I and any other player hated getting the pity, pollyanna treatment after sucking it up as you're awkwardly congratulated. Not that they should berate him but I'm PISSED at Marte for having this silly issue be A MAJOR ISSUE at this moment.

Rocky Soprano
09-20-2005, 10:22 AM
Lee's second half hasn't been all that much better than Pods. Don't put this on Lee, put this on the fact we didn't add anyone after Frank went down.

I didn't put this on Lee.

Who the hell where we going to add? NO ONE was trading, NO ONE.

samram
09-20-2005, 10:23 AM
Ya, but the bastards make you pick up your free pills and won't deliver them. I was just at the emergency room last week with a sore throat. If Tylenol 3s only grew on trees, we'd never complain about anything, what with the killer bomb Crown Royal cocktails you can brew with them. This is getting way off topic, eh? Konerko sucks. :angry:

Hey, if the score is 3-1 Sox in the fourth inning and no one is on base, PK is the guy I want at the plate.

Baby Fisk
09-20-2005, 10:26 AM
Hey, if the score is 3-1 Sox in the fourth inning and no one is on base, PK is the guy I want at the plate.Sure because the pressure's off of Kaptain Klutch's shoulders in that situation.

MeteorsSox4367
09-20-2005, 10:27 AM
Why in the hell does Ozzie have so much confidence in Marte as his late-inning lefty? What has Marte done to earn that? What about Cotts? I believe his OBA is around .160. One-bloody-60! That means Cotts, unlike Marte, gets the damn job done when he's in there.

This, combined with the fact that everybody in the world seems as though they want to see the Sox collapse, just makes me sick!!

Take two of three, please!! Go Sox!!

BeviBall!
09-20-2005, 10:29 AM
I didn't put this on Lee.

Who the hell where we going to add? NO ONE was trading, NO ONE.

Everyone says this but NO ONE needed a lefty power bat except us. We don't know what happened behind closed doors, we just know that we didn't get what we needed.

Lip Man 1
09-20-2005, 10:59 AM
From Jayson Stark's column at ESPN.com:

"Only one team in the history of baseball -- the 1914 "Miracle" Braves -- was ever 15 games out at any point of any season and came back to finish first. But that team fell 15 back in the first week of July, not the first week of August.

The biggest Aug. 1 lead any team in history has ever blown, on the other hand, is 11 games -- by the 1995 Angels. But these Indians already have made up more games than that in just a month and a half.

The White Sox, meanwhile, started out their season by going 62-29 in their first 91 games. Only two teams in history ever roared out to a start that good, were in undisputed possession of first place after those 91 games and didn't finish first -- the 1978 Red Sox (up 8) and the 1942 Dodgers (up 6).

But no team that started 62-29 or better ever finished its season by playing sub-.500 baseball for the rest of the season. The White Sox, we regret to report, are 28-30 since then.

But if it feels weird to them, just try to put yourself in the shoes of those White Sox. They've led the AL Central for every day of this season. They were 22 games over .500 before Cleveland had even spent one day over .500. And now people are telling the White Sox at least they have the wild card to fall back on."

Stark also says if the Sox can win two of the five remaining games versus Cleveland, the Tribe will have to get 'help' from other Sox opponents to win the division.

Note to Ode to Veeck: The Sox have lost five games since September 9th where they scored at least five runs. That says the pitching staff is faltering.

Lip

Hangar18
09-20-2005, 11:05 AM
Seriously, *** is a guy who simply can't get lefties out doing in the Sox bullpen? More significantly, what is a bullpen pitcher who gives up a walk and a double before recording an out doing on the mound? *** is Ozzie's problem?


Ozzie Guillen, 2005 OverManager of the Year

Unregistered
09-20-2005, 11:08 AM
Jesus, I can't wait until the Sox win tonight and pull you freaks back off the ****ing ledge...

Lip Man 1
09-20-2005, 11:09 AM
That makes two of us. I can't wait for a Sox victory as well. There hasn't been as many as they have needed in the past two weeks.

Lip

Droso5
09-20-2005, 11:43 AM
We need to keep things in perspective. This was only one game with 5 remaining with the Tribe. We are also still 2.5 games up and our offense (who would have thunk it?) is clicking, and showed plenty of heart last night coming back. But, there is always a but, Ozzie just needs to realize that he should just put in his best pitchers now and stop this match-up , over managing, self-confidence stuff. THese games are so crucial that he should put out his best players and let them play. It's better to have been beaten when you have thrown out your best shot than to lose with Jerry M like tinkering and over thinking. Youre best players against theirs, period. If Cotts has a .198 BA against him, leave him in, same with Pollite. You cant let Marte go out with a possible season altering game/series when you know he is a head case, prone to walk/hit batters.
With that said, I feel something nuts is going to happen tonight, possibly a blowout and a return to form for Buerhle, maybe even his Cy Young defining performance proving he is in the elite. Home Crowd, electricity in the air, lets roll these chumps, we have owned them this year.
This incredibly long Rant is Over. Time for class.

TheOldRoman
09-20-2005, 12:07 PM
Lee's second half hasn't been all that much better than Pods. Don't put this on Lee, put this on the fact we didn't add anyone after Frank went down.
It doesnt matter. It also doesnt matter to Hangar that Lee is only hitting .272. He apparently has a crush on Carlos, and has been bitching the entire season about him being gone. He wont accept what Scotty has brought to this team, and he doesnt realize that we wouldnt be anywhere close to where we are without a leadoff hitter.
Also, the sweet memories of Lee's homers against the Cubs have clouded Hangar's mind a little. Lee isn't clutch. He never was. He picked up most of his stats in garbage time. Most of the time when the game was on the line he did nothing. Also, he was horrible in the field, and gave up a lot more hits. If Scott Podsednik wasn't on this team, we wouldn't be as good as we are now. Carlos Lee's "breakout" season of .272,32,106 (gee, seems about what he does every year) would not have helped us as much as a great leadoff hitter does.

Hangar18
09-20-2005, 12:44 PM
It doesnt matter. It also doesnt matter to Hangar that Lee is only hitting .272. He apparently has a crush on Carlos, and has been bitching the entire season about him being gone. He wont accept what Scotty has brought to this team, and he doesnt realize that we wouldnt be anywhere close to where we are without a leadoff hitter.
Also, the sweet memories of Lee's homers against the Cubs have clouded Hangar's mind a little. Lee isn't clutch. He never was. He picked up most of his stats in garbage time. Most of the time when the game was on the line he did nothing. Also, he was horrible in the field, and gave up a lot more hits. If Scott Podsednik wasn't on this team, we wouldn't be as good as we are now. Carlos Lee's "breakout" season of .272,32,106 (gee, seems about what he does every year) would not have helped us as much as a great leadoff hitter does.

what im still furious about, is while YES I love Pods now that hes here, we were way too quick to get rid of a Carlos Lee, while never replacing those numbers ...............

Flight #24
09-20-2005, 12:56 PM
what im still furious about, is while YES I love Pods now that hes here, we were way too quick to get rid of a Carlos Lee, while never replacing those numbers ...............

Hangar - go check some stats. Jermaine Dye and Carl Everett are putting up #s not that far off of what Caballo has done in Milqaukee in terms of HRs, avg, obp. The big difference is RBI, which is due primarily to Carlos hitting 3d/4th and Dye hitting 6th. By comparison, Carl has a similar # of RBI when you factor in the fact that he's got fewer ABs because he shared time with Frank for a while.

Carlos Lee is NOT missed, they got similar production from both of the guys you could look at as "replacing" him.

whitesox_1
09-20-2005, 01:54 PM
What happened Carl hit a homerun that changed the momentum and the lead. I hope we win today I really need to something to help get better.

TheOldRoman
09-20-2005, 01:57 PM
what im still furious about, is while YES I love Pods now that hes here, we were way too quick to get rid of a Carlos Lee, while never replacing those numbers ...............
Hangar, where would they put the replacement? Coming into this season, Scotty was manning left, Rowand in center, Dye in right, and the infield was set. Frank was going to DH when he came back, with Carl as the backup DH/OF. Everything was set, and if not for really bad years from Rowand and AJ, our offense would look a lot better. All the positions wer filled, we couldn't bat 10 guys and have 2 DHs.
As for next year, there are a lot of decisions to be made. We need more offense, but not the Carlos Lee or Paul Konerko all or nothing slump prone offense. Kenny will be looking for guys who have decent power, but most importantly contact hitters who dont strike out a lot and have higher averages (ei, Bill Mueller). For this season, there was nowhere to play Carlos (at least until Frank went down).

PatK
09-20-2005, 02:01 PM
I don't know if I can listen/watch the Sox any more.

I'm getting so nervous and anxious that I'm making myself ill. Wicked headaches, and today my digestive system is so out of whack I'm doubled over in pain.

rwcescato
09-20-2005, 02:03 PM
I don't know if I can listen/watch the Sox any more.

I'm getting so nervous and anxious that I'm making myself ill. Wicked headaches, and today my digestive system is so out of whack I'm doubled over in pain.

I have been depressed for 3 weeks after each loss. We need to win tonight or its basically over.
GO SOX!!!

Cellview22
09-20-2005, 02:05 PM
I've felt sick for about a week now. I can't concentrate on anything else, I'm constantly going over the numbers in my head and what might happen, my stomach is in knots, my heart's always beating real fast like I'm about to have a panic attack, and I'm starting to get the chills. NOT good! A :gulp: and a White Sox Winner will make me feel a lot better tonight.

Lip Man 1
09-20-2005, 02:06 PM
I've been sick to my stomach for the last ten days.

Lip

SoxFan76
09-20-2005, 02:07 PM
I'm not really worried. If the Sox take the next 2 games they win the series.

slobes
09-20-2005, 02:08 PM
Some people at school have been saying that i've seem depressed the last few weeks. I wonder why...

CHISOXFAN13
09-20-2005, 02:09 PM
I was awake til 3:30 a.m. last night, and a friend who I went to the game left called in "sick" to work this morning.

That one stung.

rm0824
09-20-2005, 02:13 PM
I felt like I was hit over the head with a shovel. It's killing me. I know it's just a sport. But c'mon!! I was at the game last night, it was a great atmosphere and I just about died when Marte the resident nutjob on the Sox came in. At least I was able to beat the traffic.

Jerko
09-20-2005, 02:21 PM
I compare this team right now, and for the past few weeks, to getting the Chinese Water Torture. One drip at a time on your forehead until you go crazy.

Rocky Soprano
09-20-2005, 04:38 PM
Hangar - go check some stats. Jermaine Dye and Carl Everett are putting up #s not that far off of what Caballo has done in Milqaukee in terms of HRs, avg, obp. The big difference is RBI, which is due primarily to Carlos hitting 3d/4th and Dye hitting 6th. By comparison, Carl has a similar # of RBI when you factor in the fact that he's got fewer ABs because he shared time with Frank for a while.

Carlos Lee is NOT missed, they got similar production from both of the guys you could look at as "replacing" him.

Asking Hangar to check stats is like asking Moronotti to do some research before he writes.

Konerkoholic
09-20-2005, 05:08 PM
I'm not the biggest Ozzie fan in terms of handling the bullpen, but I'm not gonna pin the loss on him alone. 4 of the 6 pitchers for the Sox last night sucked, and the only two that didn't (Cotts and Viz) got a combined 3 outs. That said, Cotts and Marte must switch roles NOW!

Skippy
09-20-2005, 07:30 PM
Sure because the pressure's off of Kaptain Klutch's shoulders in that situation.

Thanks for clearing that up buddy.

mike squires
09-20-2005, 09:52 PM
Ive already got this team figured out. Marte (insert expletive here). He should be on a short leash and Ozz gambled here. Ozunas double was Huge, but the out afterwards making it one out was even more huge. We just dont have the smart hitting and offense. We gave up way too much in the offseason and now its coming back to hurt us. Where would we be if we had a 1-2 punch like Hafner and Martinez? All we have is Konerko ....... and hes streaky! If we had a Carlos Lee in this lineup, we win some of these games. If Ozz quit resting people ...... and took every game seriously .......
instead of "B" lineups ............ We lost yesterday because Freddie couldnt keep the INdians from scoring early ..........and Ozzie overmanaged his bullpen again.

Hangar~Being it was your B-day and all, I'm impressed you were able to remember all of that in detail!:wink:

ode to veeck
09-20-2005, 10:00 PM
4 of the 6 pitchers for the Sox last night sucked, and the only two that didn't (Cotts and Viz) got a combined 3 outs

lezzee who's faul was it cotts nad viz only faced 3 batters!?!?