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SouthSide_HitMen
09-16-2005, 02:26 AM
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/the-truth-hurts/

Good article - excerpt:

Literally, weíre talking about the greatest offensive player in the American League since expansion.

To give a little perspective on Thomasís RCAA, I thought Iíd throw in the players above and below him on the all-time list:

Jimmie Foxx 985
Honus Wagner 938
Frank Robinson 852
FRANK THOMAS 800
Rickey Henderson 763
Eddie Collins 747 (SSHM Note - Another Former White Sox)
Joe DiMaggio 708

knocko94
09-16-2005, 02:56 AM
God, I love Frank Thomas.

Frater Perdurabo
09-16-2005, 09:40 AM
This thread deserves two of these guys:
:threadrules::threadrules:

RedHeadPaleHoser
09-16-2005, 09:45 AM
This thread shows why we need him re-signed, for whatever contract setting, to retire in those pinstripes. I don't wanna hear about salary, payroll, blah blah blah...if Reinsdorf wants to be remembered as one of the better owners in this town....step one was the Fisk statue. Step two is #35 retiring for the White Sox..and ONLY the White Sox. "Nuff said.

Now granted, there are knocks against Thomas....he has the reputation of being a bit of a head case (although in fairness the Chicago media could make Mother Theresa look like a head case).....

BEST PART OF THE ARTICLE!!

Frater Perdurabo
09-16-2005, 09:46 AM
This thread shows why we need him re-signed, for whatever contract setting, to retire in those pinstripes. I don't wanna hear about salary, payroll, blah blah blah...if Reinsdorf wants to be remembered as one of the better owners in this town....step one was the Fisk statue. Step two is #35 retiring for the White Sox..and ONLY the White Sox. "Nuff said.

Agreed.

Frank needs to be on this team next year. He is the leader they've lacked while he's been on the DL.

mrwag
09-16-2005, 09:49 AM
Just look at their record without him. That's proof enough.

faneidde
09-16-2005, 11:07 AM
Bring back the Big Hurt.

SouthSide_HitMen
09-16-2005, 11:27 AM
This thread shows why we need him re-signed, for whatever contract setting, to retire in those pinstripes. I don't wanna hear about salary, payroll, blah blah blah...if Reinsdorf wants to be remembered as one of the better owners in this town....step one was the Fisk statue. Step two is #35 retiring for the White Sox..and ONLY the White Sox. "Nuff said.

Now granted, there are knocks against Thomas....he has the reputation of being a bit of a head case (although in fairness the Chicago media could make Mother Theresa look like a head case).....

BEST PART OF THE ARTICLE!!

I am sure the White Sox will resign Frank if he is able to come back - I doubt there will be many / any other teams taking a chance due to his age and the severity of his injury.

This is a "propeller head" article even Daver will like.

Dibbs
09-16-2005, 11:36 AM
I couldn't even imagine Frank in another uniform....that would be sad.

BTW, great article!

akingamongstmen
09-16-2005, 11:37 AM
Great read! It's about time somebody looked at the whole picture (not just home runs). I can honestly say that I would take Frank Thomas in his prime any day over a McGwire or Sosa in theirs. He was a better hitter than either. Case closed.

Nellie_Fox
09-16-2005, 11:41 AM
To give a little perspective on Thomasís RCAA...EVery time I think I'm catching up on the latest stathead-invented number, up pops another one I've never heard of. What's an RCAA?

Flight #24
09-16-2005, 11:47 AM
EVery time I think I'm catching up on the latest stathead-invented number, up pops another one I've never heard of. What's an RCAA?

Runs Created Above Average

It is what it sounds: basically, they use the stats to come up with a "Runs Created" # for each player, i.e. some assessment of runs driven in and scored by a player (but not that simply calculated). Then they figure out what an average players would score and compare you to that.

chitownhawkfan
09-16-2005, 11:50 AM
What a great article, it sums up quite eloquently what I have been trying to convince other people of in dimly lit bars while intoxicated for years. He also even managed to call out the Chicago media for being the clowns they are. After a bad week of Sox baseball this made me smile.

"Frank Thomas is the greatest American League Offensive player since the expansion era, period."

bigdommer
09-16-2005, 11:56 AM
A couple of things need be taken care of by Frank, and he will rank right behind Michael Jordan and Walter Payton as my favorite athletes of all time:


1) End his career with the White Sox: Despite his injuries and despite Frank's love for contract squabbles, I think this will happen. First reason, Frank wants to stay here, and the Hurt usually gets what he wants. Second, I think Frank appreciates what this franchise has done for him, and he has been nicely compensated over the past few years despite not playing much. Third, there is a mutual need for each other. With Paul and Carl (I think) being FA's, and the offenses lack of a rock in the order, Frank is needed as a full-time DH. Also, there might not be much of a market for Frank, as other teams will probably look at him in the same light as a Juan Gone, Sosa, Jim Thome, or any other slugger who is down and think that Frank is washed like they are.

2) First ballot HOFer: For this to happen, one of two things needs to happen. Frank must get to 500 HR's, which automatically puts him in. Or, Frank needs to have one more solid, all-star caliber year before he retires. If he would retire today, writers in 2010 would have to climb back even further to find his last years of glory, and that could hurt.

I give each of these about a 75-80% chance of happening.

SouthSide_HitMen
09-16-2005, 11:57 AM
EVery time I think I'm catching up on the latest stathead-invented number, up pops another one I've never heard of. What's an RCAA?

Runs Created Above Average. A stat invented and tracked by Lee Sinins, the author of the Sabermetric Baseball Encyclopedia. Lee calculates each playerís Runs Created, and then compares it to the league average, given that playerís number of plate appearances. Lee uses a different version of RC than we do, though the two are very similar.

Which leads to the question - what is RC:

Runs Created. Invented by Bill James, RC is a very good measure of the number of runs a batter truly contributed to his teamís offense. The basic formula for RC is OBP*TB, but it has evolved into over fourteen different versions. We use the most complicated version, which includes the impact of hitting well with runners in scoring position, and is adjusted for ballpark impact.

__________________________________________________ _________________

I think the best statistics to compare the careers of prior MLB players is either Win Shares, also invented by Bill James which can be reviewed on various sites / books. The Win Shares method allows you to compare what a player contributed to his team in one era vs. someone in a different era. Players today during the high run scoring era have their production adjusted against the standards of the day - the same as players in the "dead ball" era in the early part of the 20th century or the players in the 1960s until they lowered the pitcher's mound.

Anyway you slice it Frank Thomas was one of the top First Basemen of all time and if he isn't elected on the first ballot it would be a travesty. I also think Tim Raines is a first ballot HOF.

RallyBowl
09-16-2005, 12:07 PM
This thread deserves two of these guys:
:threadrules::threadrules:




I second that!



:threadrules: :threadrules:

munchman33
09-16-2005, 12:29 PM
That is the greatest article in the history of mankind.