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View Full Version : A few reasons why going down to the wire...


mike squires
09-15-2005, 08:03 PM
Can be a good thing...

1) The fans will come to the park in droves the final homestand. The place will be electric hopefully motivating our players. I think it will have the feel of when they played Texas and Seattle during the stretch they clinched it.. (we all know how they've been playing in front of packed houses) Oh yeah, trying to stay positive.

2) If the team hasn't felt urgency yet...they will feel it. Hopefully they will play with some passion.

3) If the Sox can light a spark it will hopefully carry over into the playoffs.

4) The celebration will be much more meaningful knowing they had to work for it. I was beginning to feel the celebration would be a little anti climatic.

It's going to be a fun but nerve racking couple of weeks.


Sox magic # 13

# of working days until Mike Squires has before having entire month of October off = 7

buehrle4cy05
09-15-2005, 08:15 PM
Can be a good thing...

1) The fans will come to the park in droves the final homestand. The place will be electric hopefully motivating our players. I think it will have the feel of when they played Texas and Seattle during the stretch they clinched it.. (we all know how they've been playing in front of packed houses) Oh yeah, trying to stay positive.

2) If the team hasn't felt urgency yet...they will feel it. Hopefully they will play with some passion.

3) If the Sox can light a spark it will hopefully carry over into the playoffs.

4) The celebration will be much more meaningful knowing they had to work for it. I was beginning to feel the celebration would be a little anti climatic.

It's going to be a fun but nerve racking couple of weeks.


Sox magic # 13

# of working days until Mike Squires has before having entire month of October off = 7

Well said. If they can find that spark in the next couple of games or series, watch out for the Sox in the playoffs.

The agonizing part will be if they don't.

Lorenzo Barcelo
09-15-2005, 08:26 PM
I think the whole team is distracted. They do not have the eyes on the prize. Last week players are complaining about the attendance for the KC series. Something they should not be worried about. This whole Marte situation isn't helping because Ozzie makes it sound like it involves the whole team. These guys have to realize that cusion is gone and stop going through the motions and play some baseball.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-15-2005, 08:35 PM
I have no problem with the Sox needing to battle down the stretch, especially since it is only Cleveland's SURGE for the wild card that is causing the angst. Without Cleveland engaged in a death struggle with New York and Oakland, the Sox are coasting home with no challenges whatsoever.

All you people complaining about the need for "momentum" entering the playoffs need to think about how warm and fuzzy you felt about that great 20 game margin the 1983 Sox earned after Baltimore knocked 'em out in 4 games in the playoffs. The margin of victory is meaningless and I'm shocked a bunch of "Sox Fans" need to be lectured to on this point.

Regardless of what happens, you're not going to be comfortable with the Sox until October arrives -- and I'm including the doom and gloom scenarios that has some of you peeing your pants over the Sox missing the wild card, too. For some of you a quick end to the '05 Sox would be welcome relief from all the pain and suffering you're facing today.

I wish some of you would just place a pistol in your mouth and pull the trigger because the pain and suffering you're feeling can't be relieved any other way. What pathetic lives you live.

THE_HOOTER
09-15-2005, 08:48 PM
There is no doubt you used to be a diehard CUB FAN.

You arent a lifer so you dont get it.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-15-2005, 08:59 PM
Get what? That you're happier pissing and moaning over the "what ifs" even with a 4.5 game lead -- gutless wonder that you are?

I get it perfectly well, thank you.

:cool:

halfpricemonday
09-15-2005, 09:03 PM
There is no doubt you used to be a diehard CUB FAN.

You arent a lifer so you dont get it.

No one here mentioned the Cubs until you brought them up. This is White Sox Interactive," not "I hate the Cubs" Interactive.

Let's get back on track. While it seems like the last month or so has sucked relative to the winning ways of April-July, being 4.5 games up on September 15 is an infinitely better experience than the last couple of Septembers in this city. Back in 2001-2004, all I had look forward to in October were the games at Soldier Field and the countdown to Soxfest.

Having the last month of baseball matter is a new feeling for me. I'll relish it, even through crappy games like the past two, and even if it doesn't work out in the end.

Johnny Mostil
09-15-2005, 09:39 PM
it is only Cleveland's SURGE for the wild card that is causing the angst. Without Cleveland engaged in a death struggle with New York and Oakland, the Sox are coasting home with no challenges whatsoever.

All you people complaining about the need for "momentum" entering the playoffs need to think about how warm and fuzzy you felt about that great 20 game margin the 1983 Sox earned after Baltimore knocked 'em out in 4 games in the playoffs. The margin of victory is meaningless and I'm shocked a bunch of "Sox Fans" need to be lectured to on this point.



Interesting points. Here's some more points (I don't know if they're interesting), from glorified back-of-the-envelope calculations.

If the Sox play .400 ball the rest of the way, matching their 4-6 record in the last ten, they'll win 95. For Cleveland, which has won nine of their last ten, to beat that, they will have closed out at 21-5.

If the Sox remain 30+ games over .500, where they've been for some time, Cleveland would only win if they close out at 22-4 or better.

If the Sox play .571 the rest of the way, matching their September record to date, Cleveland would only win if they close out at 24-2 or better.

How many will the Sox or the Tribe win? I don't know (and if I did I'd be in Vegas to do what we're not supposed to talk about here, and I don't mean talking about the a-word). My guess, though, is that if the Sox don't win the division it won't be because they lost it but because Cleveland will have played phenomenal ball to win it. If you're a baseball fan, then there's nothing to do but salute that, and I would.

(Oh, what the hell, I'll even note the Tribe could sweep the Sox, match them game-for-game otherwise, and finish on top, but if Cleveland wins that way, head-to-head, well, again, as a baseball fan, I'd have to salute the accomplishment.)

As for "momentum," I quit believing in it for good when the '00 Yanks lost 15 of their final 18 but still won the World Series.

For the record, I've long been pessimistic about this team's chances in the post-season, but I'm content to wait and see what happens then (and be proven wrong on this as on many other things!). That's probably because I'm still happier about the Sox this year than I've been in a while . . .

mike squires
09-15-2005, 09:51 PM
Oh, and one more. I'm going to get in pretty damn good shape cause I'm going to be spending a lot of time in the gym.:cool:

MarySwiss
09-15-2005, 09:57 PM
There is no doubt you used to be a diehard CUB FAN.
You arent a lifer so you dont get it.

Who is the "you" you are you referring to? And why are you bringing up the Cubs? Do you not get it that White Sox "lifers" couldn't give a rat's a** about anything Cub?

Cowhead418
09-15-2005, 10:02 PM
I don't buy the momentum either. Sure it's great to have it near the playoffs but I don't see it as the most important thing or even close to that. The playoffs are almost 100% different then the regular season. The whole team prepares differently for a playoff game than a regular season game. A team could lose 7 in a row going into the playoffs then get fired up and end up winning the whole damn thing. Oh and PHG, great great post. :thumbsup:

Lip Man 1
09-15-2005, 10:06 PM
I think it is a reference to George who told me in his WSI Interview that he used to root for the Cubs until basically he got tired of their act. (i.e. circus atmosphere etc...)

Johnny...regarding 'momentum' and the 00 Yanks. That was a playoff experienced, battle tested group of players, many of whom had already won a World Championship. They could afford to screw off because they did know what they had to do to win when it counted. Can you make the same claim about the 2005 Sox? The talent levels between the two teams are like night and day.

Lip

Johnny Mostil
09-15-2005, 10:32 PM
Johnny...regarding 'momentum' and the 00 Yanks. That was a playoff experienced, battle tested group of players, many of whom had already won a World Championship. They could afford to screw off because they did know what they had to do to win when it counted. Can you make the same claim about the 2005 Sox? The talent levels between the two teams are like night and day.

Lip

No, Lip, I can't, and that's one reason why I said "I've long been pessimistic about this team's chances in the post-season." But what good did momentum do the A's in recent years or the Sox in '83, among others?

Larger point here not addressed to anyone in particular. I may be one of the most skeptical persons around about "chokes." Case in point: the NL East in '69 turned out the way it did because the Mets won 100 friggin' games--more than either team in Chicago has won since 1935 and more than most first-place teams have won since the beginning of divisional play--not because anybody "choked." And if the Tribe wins the Central this year, it will very likely be because they have had a very good season with a phenomenal close that beat out what I'll still consider a good Chisox season.

Lip Man 1
09-15-2005, 11:03 PM
Johnny:

The 1969 Cubs went 25-27 after August 1st....that's choking regardless of how many games the Mets wound up winning. The Cubs couldn't even play .500 ball so I don't know how you can say 'the Mets won it...' Sorry with that type of record the Cubs 'lost' it.

Or how about the 1964 Phillies....3-12 in their last 15 games. They blew the pennant pure and simple.

Shall we look at the 1995 Angels? 24-33 after August 1st, then they bombed in the playoff game to get into the playoffs. That's not choking?

If those teams play above .500 at least they perhaps (and in the Phils and Angels cases certainly so) never piss away a certain playoff spot.

Regarding the Sox, I don't care if Cleveland played .850 ball...if the Sox win games against garbage teams in the second half...14 at this point, this isn't even an issue.

Lip

Johnny Mostil
09-15-2005, 11:37 PM
Johnny:

The 1969 Cubs went 25-27 after August 1st....that's choking regardless of how many games the Mets wound up winning. The Cubs couldn't even play .500 ball so I don't know how you can say 'the Mets won it...' Sorry with that type of record the Cubs 'lost' it.

Or how about the 1964 Phillies....3-12 in their last 15 games. They blew the pennant pure and simple.

Shall we look at the 1995 Angels? 24-33 after August 1st, then they bombed in the playoff game to get into the playoffs. That's not choking?

If those teams play above .500 at least they perhaps (and in the Phils and Angels cases certainly so) never piss away a certain playoff spot.

Regarding the Sox, I don't care if Cleveland played .850 ball...if the Sox win games against garbage teams in the second half...14 at this point, this isn't even an issue.

Lip

The '69 Mets went 38-14 in their last 52 to win the division by 8 games. For the Cubs to have tied the Mets--and yes, I should know better than to defend the Cubs on WSI--then it appears they would have to have gone 33-19 in their last 52, a .635 pace. If the Cubs had played 32-20, a .615 pace (better than they did in their first 110?), would they have "choked," even though they would still have blown what was a huge lead? I don't think it matters--the Mets played phenomenal ball, and they won.

The '64 Phils were swept by the Cards in games 158, 159, and 160. If they win just one of those, they tie the Cards (or force a playoff); if they win two, Gene Mauch isn't infamous. (Mauch may actually prove your point that choking exists, but, for the sake of friendly argument, I hope you'll let me overlook that for now.) The Cards did win 9 of their last 12 and went 21-8 in September.

Let's look at the '95 M's rather than the '95 Halos. M's play .704 ball in September, going 19-8. If they go a "mere" 17-10, then it doesn't matter that the Halos went 24-33 after August 1.

FWIW--and it ain't worth much--I couldn't get to first base in 3.2 weeks, and my arm is weak, and my range is virtually nil, though I can, on occasion, hit. But I like to think I know and respect the game enough to appreciate that Cleveland playing .850 ball, or, say, going 22-4 in their last 26, is a feat worthy of my respect as a fan of any baseball team. And I probably wouldn't think the Sox winning a "mere" 90+ games--something that has been done only about a dozen times in more than a century--would constitute a "choke."

If there are many more games like the past two, though, I may have to reconsider your point . . .

IowaSox1971
09-16-2005, 04:57 AM
Blowing a 9-4 lead against a team like Kansas City is a choke. Going 3-3 against Kansas City in September is a choke. Looking dead in the final two games of that three-game series with the Angels is a choke. Left fielders regularly loafing after the ball in the outfield is a choke.

It's not the fact that we're losing, it's the WAY we're losing. These guys are scared of Cleveland, and it's showing. So, don't give Cleveland the credit if we collapse.

Johnny Mostil
09-16-2005, 06:18 AM
Blowing a 9-4 lead against a team like Kansas City is a choke. Going 3-3 against Kansas City in September is a choke. Looking dead in the final two games of that three-game series with the Angels is a choke. Left fielders regularly loafing after the ball in the outfield is a choke.

It's not the fact that we're losing, it's the WAY we're losing. These guys are scared of Cleveland, and it's showing. So, don't give Cleveland the credit if we collapse.

Meh . . . I don't think there are style points for winning, so I'm not sure why there are for losing.

The original point, as I understood it (correctly?), is that this is a race because Cleveland is playing phenomenal ball. For Cleveland to win this, I think they're going to have to close at something like 20-6 or better. I don't think they will, though, having won 9 of their past 10, I admit they've got a jump on doing so. If they do, I still have to respect the feat. Teams that close that fast are usually very, very good (cf. http://baseball-reference.com/games/streaks.cgi?games=26&year=ALL&SHOW=TOT&includes=end_year&start_game_val=10&end_game_val=135&teams=ALL&orderby=wins&submit=Find+Streaks), regardless of who did what behind them . . .

PaleHoseGeorge
09-16-2005, 09:00 AM
Meh . . . I don't think there are style points for winning, so I'm not sure why there are for losing.

The original point, as I understood it (correctly?), is that this is a race because Cleveland is playing phenomenal ball. For Cleveland to win this, I think they're going to have to close at something like 20-6 or better. I don't think they will, though, having won 9 of their past 10, I admit they've got a jump on doing so. If they do, I still have to respect the feat. Teams that close that fast are usually very, very good (cf. http://baseball-reference.com/games/streaks.cgi?games=26&year=ALL&SHOW=TOT&includes=end_year&start_game_val=10&end_game_val=135&teams=ALL&orderby=wins&submit=Find+Streaks), regardless of who did what behind them . . .

You're a wise man, Johnny Mostil. I love it when Lip quotes chapter and verse over all the history that says the Sox will lose -- even when plenty of other history proves him wrong. Truly pathetic behavior because he OUGHT to know better...

Every team that qualifies for the postseason starts with the same record: 0-0. That's a fact Lip can't spin no matter how hard he tries.

No style points for how it gets done. If Cleveland were to achieve the near impossible and the Sox should sink so far as to miss the playoffs entirely, then clearly they weren't good enough and I tip my cap to the Tribe. Meanwhile my mind is on playing baseball to win -- just like it has been for nearly six months now.

Anyone whining and fretting about the "what ifs" this morning with a 4.5 game lead is a gutless wonder. We don't play baseball games in September just to make "statements." "Statements" count for jack **** on October 3.

I wouldn't have bothered to post this because the sentiments would be lost on practically everyone but you. You are what makes it worthwhile to speak up. Thank you.

Ol' No. 2
09-16-2005, 09:19 AM
Meh . . . I don't think there are style points for winning, so I'm not sure why there are for losing.

The original point, as I understood it (correctly?), is that this is a race because Cleveland is playing phenomenal ball. For Cleveland to win this, I think they're going to have to close at something like 20-6 or better. I don't think they will, though, having won 9 of their past 10, I admit they've got a jump on doing so. If they do, I still have to respect the feat. Teams that close that fast are usually very, very good (cf. http://baseball-reference.com/games/streaks.cgi?games=26&year=ALL&SHOW=TOT&includes=end_year&start_game_val=10&end_game_val=135&teams=ALL&orderby=wins&submit=Find+Streaks), regardless of who did what behind them . . .This is still going to come down to the 6 head-to-head games the Sox have with the Indians. Everything else is fluff. And it's the Indians chasing the Sox, not the other way around. The pressure is on them. The Sox pretty much just have to play .500 ball the rest of the way and split the 6 games with the Tribe. They're 8-5 this month.

Johnny Mostil
09-16-2005, 10:19 AM
You're a wise man, Johnny Mostil.

Can you convince my wife?:redneck

Johnny Mostil
09-16-2005, 10:36 AM
This is still going to come down to the 6 head-to-head games the Sox have with the Indians. Everything else is fluff. And it's the Indians chasing the Sox, not the other way around. The pressure is on them. The Sox pretty much just have to play .500 ball the rest of the way and split the 6 games with the Tribe. They're 8-5 this month.

They're 8-6, No. 2, 8-6. Don't be selling your blue sky attitude like that . . .

Seriously, if the Tribe wins, well, they win, and they'll likely have done so by beating the Sox head-to-head. Hooray for them if they do, though, as a Sox fan, I'd still like to see the games played . . .

I had season tix in the mid-to-late-80s and gave them up because the team, um, sucked, I got tired of hearing ownership whine about the old ballpark, etc., etc., etc. After seeing the team start hot this year, I bought a 13-game package. I'm mad again over it (hey, I'm a Sox fan!), but this time because I didn't think to check more carefully into the postseason options before choosing a plan. That's a wee bit different.

To be sure, I'm concerned about the team right now, but perspective does help . . .

tstrike2000
09-16-2005, 11:05 AM
Blowing a 9-4 lead against a team like Kansas City is a choke. Going 3-3 against Kansas City in September is a choke. Looking dead in the final two games of that three-game series with the Angels is a choke. Left fielders regularly loafing after the ball in the outfield is a choke.

Well said. Cleveland's second half is not a fluke. Their front 3 have been the best since August 1st and they're extremely strong up the middle (C, SS, 2B, CF) defensively and especially offensively. The Sox were that team in the first half with the addition of Pods stealing bases like a madman. However, with the offense slumping, Pods injury, costly errors, and baserunning mistakes, that brought us back to Earth quickly. Even when we were scoring runs, our pitching failed us in a couple on instances.

The positive I see is that trends do not tend to last. Oakland was under .500 early in the first half and then went through a stretch where they went 47-16. With teams like the Sox, Houston, Nationals, etc. they've come back to Earth, too. LAAAAA is going through that funk right now. I don't see Cleveland losing a whole lot more, but it's very difficult to keep up their pace and even with the Sox problems, we have too good a team to stay in their losing ways.

Lip Man 1
09-16-2005, 12:47 PM
George:

I am a gutless wonder. I admit it. I can't sleep, feel like **** and don't even want to broadcast the game tonight because I'm wondering what the hell the Sox are doing.

Your comments don't insult me in the least. I feel insulted because the damn White Sox decided to start playing like dung after August 1st putting me through this is the first place. (and I'm not trying to be egotistical it's just that you decided to focus on me... NO Sox fan should have to go through this.)

Regarding the 'post season' how's about we all table comment of that until after the regular season? Fair enough?

Lip

Lip Man 1
09-16-2005, 12:52 PM
TSN says: "The positive I see is that trends do not tend to last."

Well there is only two weeks left in the season so any day the Tribe's 'trend' wants to stop is fine by me.

The 1983 White Sox went 44-16 since August 1st of that year. Trends don't always stop...some do continue right to the end.

Lip

PaleHoseGeorge
09-16-2005, 12:52 PM
It's baseball, Lip. The season doesn't end on Labor Day, though most years the Sox season is over before 4th of July. Thus I can understand your confusion over why oh why the Sox haven't sewn it all up.

There are still baseball games to be played. 17 games to be exact. That's a full NFL season, +1. THINK ABOUT IT.
:o:

You're giving up on a 5-1/2 month quest because the big bad Cleveland Indians might hurt your little feelings -- before the 17 games are even played?

Sorry. You'll get no pity from me.

Lip Man 1
09-16-2005, 12:55 PM
George:

Logically I understand what you are saying....wish it would make my stomach feel better. :smile:

And I'm not asking for sympathy from anybody. I made my bed 45 years ago when I became a Sox fan.

Lip

PaleHoseGeorge
09-16-2005, 01:00 PM
Just watch the games. If the Sox can't finish off the division title or wild card, they clearly weren't championship material to begin with.

And if they do make the playoffs, the last six months are wiped out and everybody -- even the wild card team -- starts with an 0-0 record. The last 162 games count for ****.

That's baseball. If you can't understand it or (worse) don't like it, you should never have become a baseball fan in the first place. Notice this has NOTHING to do with the Chicago White Sox.

Ol' No. 2
09-16-2005, 01:01 PM
They're 8-6, No. 2, 8-6. Don't be selling your blue sky attitude like that . . .

Seriously, if the Tribe wins, well, they win, and they'll likely have done so by beating the Sox head-to-head. Hooray for them if they do, though, as a Sox fan, I'd still like to see the games played . . .

I had season tix in the mid-to-late-80s and gave them up because the team, um, sucked, I got tired of hearing ownership whine about the old ballpark, etc., etc., etc. After seeing the team start hot this year, I bought a 13-game package. I'm mad again over it (hey, I'm a Sox fan!), but this time because I didn't think to check more carefully into the postseason options before choosing a plan. That's a wee bit different.

To be sure, I'm concerned about the team right now, but perspective does help . . .Any rational person would be concerned. Others who predicted the Sox would do poorly this season see this as some sort of vindication. Still others choose to run around in circles yelling "Lawdy! Lawdy! What is we gonna DO?"

tstrike2000
09-16-2005, 01:04 PM
TSN says: "The positive I see is that trends do not tend to last."

Well there is only two weeks left in the season so any day the Tribe's 'trend' wants to stop is fine by me.

The 1983 White Sox went 44-16 since August 1st of that year. Trends don't always stop...some do continue right to the end.

Lip

That's why I said trends don't tend to last meaning some do many don't. '83 White Sox were .500 at 37-37 at then caught fire and ended the season 99-63. In the ALCS against Balitimore the Sox scored 3 runs in 4 games including getting shutout twice. That season trend ended in losing. '84 Tigers started 35-5, but essentially played .500 the rest of the year. But they went on to win the World Series. Just one of the things that makes baseball great.

Ol' No. 2
09-16-2005, 01:05 PM
George:

Logically I understand what you are saying....wish it would make my stomach feel better. :smile:

And I'm not asking for sympathy from anybody. I made my bed 45 years ago when I became a Sox fan.

LipSome people go to amusement parks and ride the merry-go-round. Others ride the roller coasters. Baseball is not a merry-go-round.

Everybody's stomach is churning. But almost all pennant races are like this. You've been around long enough to know that.

Brian26
09-16-2005, 01:07 PM
Every team that qualifies for the postseason starts with the same record: 0-0. That's a fact Lip can't spin no matter how hard he tries.

I don't want to step in the middle of this PHG/Lip discussion, but I do agree with one point that Lip has continuously made over the past couple of days. It's about momentum. Momentum means everything in the world. There are countless examples of teams going into the playoffs with great records that have stumbled because they were cold. Likewise, there are countless examples of teams just squeaking in with mediocre records and going far (wild cards teams, case in point) because they were hot at the end of the season. The Sox were on fire for the first 4 months of the season, but that doesn't mean Ozzie can flip a switch on October 4 and rekindle the fire.

Hopefully, starting tonight, the fire gets lit. Go Sox!!!!!!!!!

PaleHoseGeorge
09-16-2005, 01:10 PM
Momentum means dick. Either you qualify for the postseason or you don't.

Either you go home on October 3 or you get an 0-0 record and a whole second season.

There are no style points awarded for either wins or losses, and why anyone would think there are style points is truly a mystery. Did Lip put you up to this?
:o:

Hangar18
09-16-2005, 01:15 PM
This is still going to come down to the 6 head-to-head games the Sox have with the Indians. Everything else is fluff. And it's the Indians chasing the Sox, not the other way around. The pressure is on them. The Sox pretty much just have to play .500 ball the rest of the way and split the 6 games with the Tribe. They're 8-5 this month.

This is what Im afraid of. I DO NOT WANT it to come down to our games vs the Indians, especially since we finish the last 3 there. I can guarantee we wont win ANY of the games down there if it comes down to us in front by 4 or less. We cannot let that happen, the SOX have to realize they still control their own destiny here. YES INDEED the Tribe is chasing the SOX and therefore the pressure is theoretically on them, but the SOX are the ones playing under Pressure, kicking balls away, making bad pitches, dumb baserunning, giving away at-bats, letting pitchers off the hook. If our offense was any darn good, we wouldve won some of these games. Many people said the Tribe were to be recognized, many here chose to not believe it, rested on the 15 game lead. :mad:

MarySwiss
09-16-2005, 01:19 PM
Some people go to amusement parks and ride the merry-go-round. Others ride the roller coasters. Baseball is not a merry-go-round.
Everybody's stomach is churning. But almost all pennant races are like this. You've been around long enough to know that.

Thanks, Ol' No. 2. You just reminded me that the last time my stomach felt like this was in November of 2001, right after BK Kim blew two straight saves and the Yankees came to Arizona up 3-2. Couple days later, I was all better. :D:

And that was not even the team I've rooted for my whole life. So I guess I'll just keep the Pepto-Bismol close for the rest of the season.

HotelWhiteSox
09-16-2005, 01:23 PM
Momentum means dick. Either you qualify for the postseason or you don't.

Either you go home on October 3 or you get an 0-0 record and a whole second season.

There are no style points awarded for either wins or losses, and why would think there are style points is truly a mystery. Did Lip put you up to this?
:o:

I would agree, I guess that momentum might be good for personal confidence of the team, something they need when starting on the road, but it's not as neccessary as people think. Why can't it start On Oct 2? If it started last week, who's to say it wouldn't have ended by the time the playoffs started? I think the Sox have the confidence because they went through the first half, they know they can rip off like 10 straight, and all these wildcard teams blew in the first half in the seasons, so all the teams go through their ups and downs.

I mainly say it doesn't matter as much though by looking at last year's Cardinals. They had the division wrapped up in months, every one talked about the momentum, and they were playing an LA team that ended the season nicely to win their division, and they were beaten worse then stepchildren. The Cards' then beat the hot wildcard team Astros, and got to the WS. They lost there, but I just think that Red Sox team was better. So I have my confidence

Johnny Mostil
09-16-2005, 01:36 PM
Momentum means everything in the world. There are countless examples of teams going into the playoffs with great records that have stumbled because they were cold. Likewise, there are countless examples of teams just squeaking in with mediocre records and going far (wild cards teams, case in point) because they were hot at the end of the season.


Given my druthers, I'd much rather see the Sox go, say, 19-6 over the last 25 than 6-19. Having said that, however, let's look at some recent years.

2004: Red Sox close 15-10. Among teams equaling or bettering that are the Phillies, Astros, Giants, Yankees (16-9), Braves, Twins, and Cubs.

2003: Marlins close 17-8. Among teams equaling or bettering that are Twins, Blue Jays, Yankees, Giants, and Cubs.

2002: Angels close 16-9. Among teams equaling or bettering that are Cardinals, Yankees, Blue Jays, Giants, Athletics, Red Sox, and Expos.

2001: Diamondbacks close 14-11. Among teams equaling or bettering that are Athletics, Cardinals, Mariners, Mets, Yankees, Giants, Phillies, and Braves.

2000: Yankees close 9-16. Among teams equaling or bettering that are . . . well, most (but not quite) everybody.

If it'll make y'all feel better, I'll take this back in time some more or use a different number of games or provide links for each year. Or maybe Garland will pick it up tonight and stop the momentum of concern about momentum . . .

Flight #24
09-16-2005, 01:46 PM
This is what Im afraid of. I DO NOT WANT it to come down to our games vs the Indians, especially since we finish the last 3 there. I can guarantee we wont win ANY of the games down there if it comes down to us in front by 4 or less. We cannot let that happen, the SOX have to realize they still control their own destiny here. YES INDEED the Tribe is chasing the SOX and therefore the pressure is theoretically on them, but the SOX are the ones playing under Pressure, kicking balls away, making bad pitches, dumb baserunning, giving away at-bats, letting pitchers off the hook. If our offense was any darn good, we wouldve won some of these games. Many people said the Tribe were to be recognized, many here chose to not believe it, rested on the 15 game lead. :mad:

In 10 of the 14 games in September, the Sox have scored 5 or more runs. Wanna try again? This isn't even beating a dead horse, it's beating a horse that doesn't exist........

For the record, per ESPN, the Sox as a team are batting .299 / .369 / .540. Think about that - that's as a team, fairly impressive.

The problem has been the pitching and most importantly, the defense. Luckily, that last one is something completely under the team's control and something that can quickly & easily be turned around with a bit of focus.

Paulwny
09-16-2005, 01:50 PM
I don't want to step in the middle of this PHG/Lip discussion, but I do agree with one point that Lip has continuously made over the past couple of days. It's about momentum. Momentum means everything in the world. There are countless examples of teams going into the playoffs with great records that have stumbled because they were cold. Likewise, there are countless examples of teams just squeaking in with mediocre records and going far (wild cards teams, case in point) because they were hot at the end of the season. The Sox were on fire for the first 4 months of the season, but that doesn't mean Ozzie can flip a switch on October 4 and rekindle the fire.

Hopefully, starting tonight, the fire gets lit. Go Sox!!!!!!!!!

Lip brought up the sox record starting on Aug. 1 1983 to the end of the season in a previous post. Over the last 11 games of 1983 the sox went 9-2, the orioles went 4-7, so much for momentum going into the play-offs.
I hope I looked at these stats correctly. :redface:

Johnny Mostil
09-16-2005, 01:59 PM
Lip brought up the sox record starting on Aug. 1 1983 to the end of the season in a previous post. Over the last 11 games of 1983 the sox went 9-2, the orioles went 4-7, so much for momentum going into the play-offs.
I hope I looked at these stats correctly. :redface:

You did. Over last 25, Sox were 21-4, O's 16-9 (really bad last week and a half for O's).

In '00, Sox were 13-12 in last 25; M's were 17-8.

In '93, Sox were 16-9 in last 25; Jays were 17-8.

In '59, Sox were 14-11 in last 25; Dodgers were 16-9.

Interesting trivia, maybe, but nothing more than that . . .

THE_HOOTER
09-16-2005, 04:07 PM
Get what? That you're happier pissing and moaning over the "what ifs" even with a 4.5 game lead -- gutless wonder that you are?

I get it perfectly well, thank you.

:cool:

I love how you can shoot around personal insults, but if anyone else does its banishment.

My fact still remains and you cannot change or dispute it.

I agree with you 100% about the stupid, ignorant, and immature bitching after every loss or bad at-bat.

However, if I have concerns about a team that is clearly dying a slow death I certainly dont see myself as dumb.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-16-2005, 04:19 PM
However, if I have concerns about a team that is clearly dying a slow death I certainly dont see myself as dumb.

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize I was off-base calling you names after you called me a diehard Cubs fan.

Here's another name for you. Gone for the remainder of 2005.

RedHeadPaleHoser
09-16-2005, 04:41 PM
I love how you can shoot around personal insults, but if anyone else does its banishment.

My fact still remains and you cannot change or dispute it.

Wow, just, wow.

woodenleg
09-16-2005, 04:52 PM
Can be a good thing...

1) The fans will come to the park in droves the final homestand. The place will be electric hopefully motivating our players. I think it will have the feel of when they played Texas and Seattle during the stretch they clinched it.. (we all know how they've been playing in front of packed houses) Oh yeah, trying to stay positive.

2) If the team hasn't felt urgency yet...they will feel it. Hopefully they will play with some passion.

3) If the Sox can light a spark it will hopefully carry over into the playoffs.

4) The celebration will be much more meaningful knowing they had to work for it. I was beginning to feel the celebration would be a little anti climatic.

It's going to be a fun but nerve racking couple of weeks.


Sox magic # 13

# of working days until Mike Squires has before having entire month of October off = 7

I agree...all of the drama. It's like one of those cheesy things they show during a rain delay, it's so emotional this way!