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Fenway
09-15-2005, 06:34 PM
It is simple 6 teams 4 invitations

Chicago still in control of 2 tickets ( division or wild card ) so unlike any of the other 5 teams they have "some" breathing room left

Look at WINS ( not the loss column as wins are all that count in the end )

White Sox 88
Boston 85
Cleveland 84
Yankees 82
Anaheim 81
Oakland 80

So even if the unthinkable happens, the White Sox still have a cushion for the WC.

It is getting more doubtful the WC will come from the West, and as of today the White Sox have 6 more wins than NY going into their game tonight at Tampa.

Cleveland's main goal now is to get ahead of Boston so they would control at worst the WC if they can't catch the White Sox.

Hopefully this is a bump in the road that will get them ready for October 4th.

Lip Man 1
09-15-2005, 06:41 PM
"Settling' for the wild card after a record breaking season in the 105 year history of the franchise would suck. With that momentum you can almost guarantee a short stay in the post season.

Only the White Sox could pull something like that off.

Lip

Vernam
09-15-2005, 06:41 PM
Hopefully this is a bump in the road that will get them ready for October 4th.For that to happen, McCarthy would need to replace Duque in the rotation and Jenks replace Hermanson as the closer. Heck, while we're at it, Borchard should be our new cleanup hitter.

Making a lineup or rotation switch is tricky at this stage, because anything significant will seem to some like Ozzie's panicking. Look how elaborately they rationalized yanking Marte. But otherwise, I agree they should take this opportunity to shake things up. Hard to imagine what Ozzie's waiting for . . .

Congrats on post #3K!

VC

TomParrish79
09-15-2005, 06:45 PM
wow has it really come to this type of thinking?

*remember watching the team play for the last week*

oooh yeah I guess so

Fenway
09-15-2005, 06:48 PM
"Settling' for the wild card after a record breaking season in the 105 year history of the franchise would suck. With that momentum you can almost guarantee a short stay in the post season.

Only the White Sox could pull something like that off.

Lip

Well the last 3 World Champions have been the Wild Card :smile:

8 teams 1 Champion

Winning it all is all that matters

Lip Man 1
09-15-2005, 07:16 PM
Fenway:

'Momentum' is all that matters. The Sox have zero of it right now. The Marlins won something like 16 of 24 to take the wild card in 2002, now THAT's momentum.

They didn't stumble in after what could be a blown fifteen game lead. They played their asses off to get in. And please don't spout your pap nonsense about the Red Sox...a 120 million dollar payroll is a 'wild card' team in name only because the Yankees spend 190 million and happen to be in the same division.

I want these clowns to win the division outright that they so rightly will have earned, not fall into the post season with their rear ends pointed forward. That's a recipe for a quick, untimely death in October.

Lip

BeviBall!
09-15-2005, 07:20 PM
Lip - it may be unfair, but it's our best chance. Freddy has nothing right now. I'd have loved to see (Imean heard) B Mac on Sat., but at least Hernandez is rested.

If we can just beat Johan once... this could all turn around very fast.

oeo
09-15-2005, 10:12 PM
'Momentum' is all that matters. The Sox have zero of it right now. The Marlins won something like 16 of 24 to take the wild card in 2002, now THAT's momentum.

I didn't know they couldn't gain momentum? For all we know, they could finish 17-0...If the pitching steps it up, look out, here comes the momentum.

kitekrazy
09-15-2005, 10:16 PM
Fenway:

'Momentum' is all that matters. The Sox have zero of it right now. The Marlins won something like 16 of 24 to take the wild card in 2002, now THAT's momentum.

They didn't stumble in after what could be a blown fifteen game lead. They played their asses off to get in. And please don't spout your pap nonsense about the Red Sox...a 120 million dollar payroll is a 'wild card' team in name only because the Yankees spend 190 million and happen to be in the same division.

I want these clowns to win the division outright that they so rightly will have earned, not fall into the post season with their rear ends pointed forward. That's a recipe for a quick, untimely death in October.

Lip

Great point. The teams with the best records don't always win the Series. The Cardinals didn't last long. It's all about momentun.

Fuller_Schettman
09-15-2005, 10:19 PM
Fenway:

'Momentum' is all that matters. The Sox have zero of it right now. The Marlins won something like 16 of 24 to take the wild card in 2002, now THAT's momentum.

They didn't stumble in after what could be a blown fifteen game lead. They played their asses off to get in. And please don't spout your pap nonsense about the Red Sox...a 120 million dollar payroll is a 'wild card' team in name only because the Yankees spend 190 million and happen to be in the same division.

I want these clowns to win the division outright that they so rightly will have earned, not fall into the post season with their rear ends pointed forward. That's a recipe for a quick, untimely death in October.

Lip

Sorry, but "momentum" doesn't mean ****. You of all people should know that. It didn't mean **** in 1983 or in 1993. It didn't mean **** to the 2001 Mariners or the 2000-2003 Oakland A's. Or the 2001-2004 Minnesota Twins.

Bottom line is what you do in October. Period.

kitekrazy
09-15-2005, 10:25 PM
So even if the unthinkable happens, the White Sox still have a cushion for the WC.


I wouldn't have faith in that. Any of those teams listed are capable of winning at least 4 games in a row. All it would take is for one of them to have a winning streak.
We've lost 2 and could stretch it to 5 this weekend which could put them 1-3 games up in the wild card.

Lip Man 1
09-15-2005, 11:40 PM
Fuller:

Assuming you get to October right? Unlike some I don't completely agree it's a 'crapshoot.' Something has to decide things, talent or momentum are the only things I can think of.

Assuming that's true, the Sox by no means have the most talent, so they damn well better have something else going for them.

Oh in 83 they had enough momentum to hand the O's their first ever post season series loss at home in game #1. Wasn't much when all was said and done but it was a lot better then the 00 version that lost 5 of their last 7 and were swept out of the playoffs weren't they?

Lip

ClaudelSleptHere
09-16-2005, 01:39 AM
Lip:

I know what you are saying, but there are plenty of instances of momentum shifting once the playoffs start. The Marlins didn't exactly steamroll the Cubs, and the Yankees had all the momentum when they were up 3-0 last year. We just gotta get in. It starts all over then.

IowaSox1971
09-16-2005, 05:26 AM
In retrospect, we should have gone to the six-man rotation after McCarthy's gem in Boston. At that point, Reinsdorf should have told Buehrle and Garland that, as long as the team won the division, he would pay any Cy Young-related incentive clauses in their contracts.

Instead, Ozzie was afraid to hurt his pitchers' Cy Young chances, so he didn't really do what was best for the team. Now all of our starters seem to lack command.

ScottsdaleSoxFan
09-16-2005, 07:30 AM
It is simple 6 teams 4 invitations

Chicago still in control of 2 tickets ( division or wild card ) so unlike any of the other 5 teams they have "some" breathing room left

Look at WINS ( not the loss column as wins are all that count in the end )

White Sox 88
Boston 85
Cleveland 84
Yankees 82
Anaheim 81
Oakland 80

So even if the unthinkable happens, the White Sox still have a cushion for the WC.

It is getting more doubtful the WC will come from the West, and as of today the White Sox have 6 more wins than NY going into their game tonight at Tampa.

Cleveland's main goal now is to get ahead of Boston so they would control at worst the WC if they can't catch the White Sox.

Hopefully this is a bump in the road that will get them ready for October 4th.

I actually feel a bit better now. Thanks Fenway! This team will be back, we all know it. Remember the last time they lost a series in KC in heartbreaking fashion. We went right out and had a 4 game sweep of the Orioles. They have a sense of urgency now. They are gonna come roaring back.

Fenway
09-16-2005, 09:57 AM
I actually feel a bit better now. Thanks Fenway! This team will be back, we all know it. Remember the last time they lost a series in KC in heartbreaking fashion. We went right out and had a 4 game sweep of the Orioles. They have a sense of urgency now. They are gonna come roaring back.

Believe me I would trade places with the White Sox situation in a hearbeat right now. The Red Sox are hanging on by a thread looking simply awful against Oakland last night. Cleveland can blow right by us and take away any wild card option we have.

Boston is paying the price for that Labor Day game now having gone 24 days without an off day and they look pooped.


so this morning we see
Wins games left
Chicago 88 17
Boston 85 16
Cleveland 84 16
Evil Empire 83 17
Oakland 81 16
Anaheim 81 16

September baseball is fun ain't it :?:

Fungo
09-16-2005, 10:10 AM
Well the last 3 World Champions have been the Wild Card :smile:

8 teams 1 Champion

Winning it all is all that matters

Fenway:

'Momentum' is all that matters. The Sox have zero of it right now. The Marlins won something like 16 of 24 to take the wild card in 2002, now THAT's momentum.

They didn't stumble in after what could be a blown fifteen game lead. They played their asses off to get in. And please don't spout your pap nonsense about the Red Sox...a 120 million dollar payroll is a 'wild card' team in name only because the Yankees spend 190 million and happen to be in the same division.

I want these clowns to win the division outright that they so rightly will have earned, not fall into the post season with their rear ends pointed forward. That's a recipe for a quick, untimely death in October.

Lip

Lip,

fenway is right, winning is all that matters. I don't care how we get it done in October, if we win it all I'm one happy camper. Momentum doesn't mean dick. Everyone has a clean slate to start the playoffs.

Fenway
09-16-2005, 10:16 AM
Lip,

fenway is right, winning is all that matters. I don't care how we get it done in October, if we win it all I'm one happy camper. Momentum doesn't mean dick. Everyone has a clean slate to start the playoffs.

As Yogi may have said

"it's not over til it's over but you got to be playing"

Theo Epstein says this all the time, the goal is to make the playoffs, that is the hard part.

If you make it in, you have a 12.5 chance to win it all.

Come October 3rd, it won't matter if the WS won the division or are the WC as long as they know there is more baseball to be played. 2 of the 6 teams in the hunt are not going and will have a long and miserable October.

1951Campbell
09-16-2005, 10:21 AM
Sorry, but "momentum" doesn't mean ****. You of all people should know that. It didn't mean **** in 1983 or in 1993. It didn't mean **** to the 2001 Mariners or the 2000-2003 Oakland A's. Or the 2001-2004 Minnesota Twins.

Or the 2000 Yankees.

MsSoxVixen22
09-16-2005, 10:34 AM
I'm sorry....if we end up getting the WC, I'll be P.O'ed. We hold the division ALL year and we get in the playoffs by WC?! Come on. They gotta step it up and what counts is Oct. It's almost like a clean slate. Nobody will care that the Sox had the best record all season. Just my 2 cents

wdelaney72
09-16-2005, 10:35 AM
Or the 2000 Yankees.

It sure meant something to the 2004 Red Sox, 2003 Marlins, and the 2002 Angels. I'm a big fan of momentum and right now we have ZERO.

If you don't call it momentum, look at HOW we are playing since the all-star break. That would be consistently BAD. I don't see how this team is going to just magically flip a switch and start playing well again.

Iwritecode
09-16-2005, 10:52 AM
It sure meant something to the 2004 Red Sox, 2003 Marlins, and the 2002 Angels. I'm a big fan of momentum and right now we have ZERO.

If you don't call it momentum, look at HOW we are playing since the all-star break. That would be consistently BAD. I don't see how this team is going to just magically flip a switch and start playing well again.

So in other words all that momentum they had before the AS break meant jack squat huh?

You can find just as many scenarios that go against your arguement as you can that go with it...

Fenway
09-16-2005, 10:57 AM
So in other words all that momentum they had before the AS break meant jack squat huh?

You can find just as many scenarios that go against your arguement as you can that go with it...

No the first half momentum meant something, it is the reason the White Sox still in first.

This could be a blessing, as the White Sox in reality didn't have a crucial series all year because of the big lead. Now they have a chance for a dress rehersal for October.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-16-2005, 11:10 AM
"Momentum" is for cowards and losers.

1951Campbell
09-16-2005, 11:11 AM
So in other words all that momentum they had before the AS break meant jack squat huh?

Kinda blows away the "Big Mo" theory.

Anyway, before the lead was cut to what it is now, many here wanted a close race to "focus" the Sox, insuring their success in the playoffs.

Now, many here have gotten their close race, and the loss of momentum that has come with it is perceived as a big problem.

Many here need to pick a Grand Unified Theory on the Proper Way to Ramp Up to a Successful Playoff Push and stick with it. Because face it, for each momentum team there's a team that coasted.

I'm just sayin'.

Baby Fisk
09-16-2005, 11:11 AM
It sure meant something to the 2004 Red Sox, 2003 Marlins, and the 2002 Angels. I'm a big fan of momentum and right now we have ZERO.

If you don't call it momentum, look at HOW we are playing since the all-star break. That would be consistently BAD. I don't see how this team is going to just magically flip a switch and start playing well again.
Game 1 will determine which teams begin the playoffs with momentum. It's that simple.

If the Sox win their first playoff game, suddenly momentum is with us and we need just two more wins to move to the ALCS.

If the Sox lose their first playoff game, not only will they be behind the eight ball right away, but the eloquence of Lip's lamentations will reach unprecedented levels. It will give new meaning to the words wailing and gnashing. Positively Shakespearean. You won't want to miss it. :wink:

1951Campbell
09-16-2005, 11:21 AM
If the Sox lose their first playoff game, not only will they be behind the eight ball right away, but the eloquence of Lip's lamentations will reach unprecedented levels. It will give new meaning to the words wailing and gnashing. Positively Shakespearean. You won't want to miss it. :wink:

Hamlet:

To root, or not to root: that is the question:Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to sufferThe slings and arrows of outrageous pitching,Or to take arms against a sea of doubles,And by opposing end them? To watch...the Bears?No more; and by a sleep to say we endThe heart-ache and the three ALDS lossesThat the Sox are heir to, 'tis a consummation Devoutly to be wish'd...

[amazingly, Falstaff enters from another play]

Falstaff:

What the hell is the matter with you? Go Sox!

[Falstaff smacks Hamlet upside the head]

D. TODD
09-16-2005, 11:21 AM
The Sox will deal with the playoffs when game 1 of the ALDS starts. Until then the only focus is getting to the playoffs, as Division champ or wildcard JUST GET THERE!!!!!!! If they continue to play as they have this past week, then playoff momentum will be a moot point.

Baby Fisk
09-16-2005, 11:23 AM
Hamlet:

To root, or not to root: that is the question:Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to sufferThe slings and arrows of outrageous pitching,Or to take arms against a sea of doubles,And by opposing end them? To watch...the Bears?No more; and by a sleep to say we endThe heart-ache and the three ALDS lossesThat the Sox are heir to, 'tis a consummation Devoutly to be wish'd...

[amazingly, Falstaff enters from another play]

Falstaff:

What the hell is the matter with you? Go Sox!

[Falstaff smacks Hamlet upside the head]

Very nice. :cheers:

Paulwny
09-16-2005, 11:47 AM
Momentum is only as good as today's starting pitcher, it changes every day.

downstairs
09-16-2005, 11:55 AM
"Momentum" is for cowards and losers.

True.

But "Playing Poorly".... which is something that could possibly continue or could possibly stop... is fair to worry about, isn't it?

We've been playing like a .500 team since just before the All Star break. And our record shows that.

So... are the Sox really a .500 team with a lucky first half, or are they really a great team with a terrible second half?

All that matters is that they play well in the playoffs.

Right now they haven't played well, on balance, for months.

It is a fair concern that this may continue. I hope not. I'll bet not. But I am still worried.

Fungo
09-16-2005, 12:11 PM
...But it's been no bed of roses
No pleasure cruise
I consider it a challenge before the whole human race
And I ain't gonna lose

We are the champions - my friends
And we'll keep on fighting - till the end -
We are the champions
We are the champions
No time for losers
'Cause we are the champions - of the world

Hang on folks, nothing good ever comes easy.

ron_j_galt
09-16-2005, 12:19 PM
So... are the Sox really a .500 team with a lucky first half, or are they really a great team with a terrible second half?


I think they're around a 90-win team with a great first half and a soft schedule. If you strip out KC and Detroit, they're 24-28 since July 1. I have no idea how this compares to other teams' records when you get rid of their divisional bottom-feeders, but it isn't be good news.

Chisox353014
09-16-2005, 12:36 PM
Believe me I would trade places with the White Sox situation in a hearbeat right now. The Red Sox are hanging on by a thread looking simply awful against Oakland last night. Cleveland can blow right by us and take away any wild card option we have.


so this morning we see
Wins games left
Chicago 88 17
Boston 85 16
Cleveland 84 16
Evil Empire 83 17
Oakland 81 16
Anaheim 81 16

September baseball is fun ain't it :?:

A couple of things, which will hopefully generate a little optimism:
-Oakland and Anaheim still have a 4-game series left against each other. The Sox are 7.5 games ahead of each of those teams, magic # is 10 to beat each of them out. So there are 4 guaranteed losses between those 2 teams, which lowers the actual magic numbers a little more. Even if one team sweeps, that would mean that team grabs the AL West playoff spot and the other is all but eliminated from wildcard contention, and thus both are off our radar screen.

-So assuming we beat out both Western teams, which looks pretty likely right now, that leaves 3 teams. Either NY or Boston is guaranteed the AL East spot, so that leaves 2 teams. We only have to finish ahead of one of them to make the playoffs. Beat out either the Yanks or Cleveland and we're in. We have a 5-game head start on NY, and a 4.5-game head start on Cleveland.

Simple. Beat one little team and we're in. Now, don't you feel all warm and fuzzy inside? :cool:

nlentz88
09-16-2005, 01:51 PM
I agree that just making the playoffs (either via an ALC championship or WC berth) is the short term goal with winning a WS the supreme goal. However, I really, really would enjoy seeing a "2005" flag flying at the Cell signifying a division title. There aren't enough symbols of White Sox success at the Cell.

cleanwsox
09-16-2005, 01:55 PM
I agree that just making the playoffs (either via an ALC championship or WC berth) is the short term goal with winning a WS the supreme goal. However, I really, really would enjoy seeing a "2005" flag flying at the Cell signifying a division title. There aren't enough symbols of White Sox success at the Cell.

Yah, I want something for this season and I don't think they make Wild Card banner's. The race is for the division and hearing Gene announce opening day next year, "Your defending AL Central Champions, Chicago White Sox."

maurice
09-16-2005, 02:10 PM
If you strip out KC and Detroit they're 24-28 since July 1.

Why should you "strip out KC and Detroit"? If you're trying to eliminate outliers, you also have to strip out the 2 teams they have the worst record against. Here're some more relevant figures, given the remaining schedule:

Our record since 7/1
v. Cleveland = 4-0
v. Detroit = 5-2
v. Minny = 2-4

fquaye149
09-16-2005, 03:51 PM
"Momentum" is for cowards and losers.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

in_honor_of_prospective_color-man_Richard_Roeper...

(ps-forgive_my_spacebar_difficulties :redface: )

fquaye149
09-16-2005, 03:52 PM
Hamlet:

To root, or not to root: that is the question:Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to sufferThe slings and arrows of outrageous pitching,Or to take arms against a sea of doubles,And by opposing end them? To watch...the Bears?No more; and by a sleep to say we endThe heart-ache and the three ALDS lossesThat the Sox are heir to, 'tis a consummation Devoutly to be wish'd...

[amazingly, Falstaff enters from another play]

Falstaff:

What the hell is the matter with you? Go Sox!

[Falstaff smacks Hamlet upside the head]

Falstaf???

:gulp:

"if_time_were_cups_of_sack..."

samram
09-16-2005, 04:22 PM
Yah, I want something for this season and I don't think they make Wild Card banner's. The race is for the division and hearing Gene announce opening day next year, "Your defending AL Central Champions, Chicago White Sox."

No, the goal is to win the World Series, not the division. Getting to the playoffs and not winning it all is no different than finishing in third, IMO.

Lip Man 1
09-16-2005, 04:24 PM
From Scott Reifert's blog at White Sox.com:

"We all are frustrated in the team not having any momentum right now. Things will change over the next 17 games. Hopefully, back in our favor, but none of us really know how. Only the guys in uniform can do something about it. The rest of us are stuck with the passion, anger, joy, sleepless nights, punches in the stomach, ulcers, stress ... and hopefully, in the end, champaigne. At least we all know from the very strong emotions that we are alive ..."

Sums it up pretty well in my opinion.

Lip

Fake Chet Lemon
09-16-2005, 05:20 PM
In retrospect, we should have gone to the six-man rotation after McCarthy's gem in Boston. At that point, Reinsdorf should have told Buehrle and Garland that, as long as the team won the division, he would pay any Cy Young-related incentive clauses in their contracts.

Instead, Ozzie was afraid to hurt his pitchers' Cy Young chances, so he didn't really do what was best for the team. Now all of our starters seem to lack command.

No retrospect on that one. Most of us here knew it at the time!

In 2003, McKeon rode the hot hand in September and October for the Marlins. If he had this team, he'd probably go with a 4-man rotation right now with McCarthy and Contreras in it. He wouldn't give a darn about the individual awards (Cy Young) like Ozzie is.

4th Gen. Sox Fan
09-16-2005, 05:47 PM
A few wins against the Twins will make a lot of us breath easier, we still have a 4.5 game lead, which will increase next week when we take the wind out of the Indians sails, as much as I want to look to the dark clouds and give up on the Sox, I just can't, and when I read about how the Sox need to tank and the Tribe need to go undefeated, both of which are highly unlikely, and then read how the Sox are actually in a good situation makes things better, eternal optimism has its ups and downs.

Fuller_Schettman
09-16-2005, 07:39 PM
Hamlet:

To root, or not to root: that is the question:Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to sufferThe slings and arrows of outrageous pitching,Or to take arms against a sea of doubles,And by opposing end them? To watch...the Bears?No more; and by a sleep to say we endThe heart-ache and the three ALDS lossesThat the Sox are heir to, 'tis a consummation Devoutly to be wish'd...

[amazingly, Falstaff enters from another play]

Falstaff:

What the hell is the matter with you? Go Sox!

[Falstaff smacks Hamlet upside the head]

Brilliant!!!

"and thy Dark Clouds nearly **** upon themselves!"

1951Campbell
09-16-2005, 11:57 PM
Falstaf???

:gulp:

"if_time_were_cups_of_sack..."

Well, you can't parody Shakespeare on a Sox board without making a Falstaff allusion, now, can ya?

:gulp:

beck72
09-17-2005, 06:35 AM
Only the Indians have a very good record in Sept. Their 11-3 record this month is tops of the 6 AL contenders. Here are the rest: [as of 9-17 am]
NYY 9-5
Sox 9-6
Bost 9-7
LAA 8-7
Oak 6-9

The sox keep up this pace the rest of Sept. and they'll play another team that likely also doesn't have "momentum".

Dan H
09-17-2005, 07:16 AM
Only the Indians have a very good record in Sept. Their 11-3 record this month is tops of the 6 AL contenders. Here are the rest: [as of 9-17 am]
NYY 9-5
Sox 9-6
Bost 9-7
LAA 8-7
Oak 6-9

The sox keep up this pace the rest of Sept. and they'll play another team that likely also doesn't have "momentum".

There is parity in baseball right now. Any one of these teams can end up in the World Series.

As far as momentum, I don't think it can be easily dismissed. Baseball players, like all human beings, are creatures of habit. If you fall into a rut (like recent horrendous base running), that can feed on itself. And while the 2-1 win over the Twins was a big one, the Sox are still not hitting. I would like to see the team run on cylinders. I would then call that momentum.

beck72
09-17-2005, 07:33 AM
There is parity in baseball right now. Any one of these teams can end up in the World Series.

As far as momentum, I don't think it can be easily dismissed. Baseball players, like all human beings, are creatures of habit. If you fall into a rut (like recent horrendous base running), that can feed on itself. And while the 2-1 win over the Twins was a big one, the Sox are still not hitting. I would like to see the team run on cylinders. I would then call that momentum.

I agree hitters can't just turn it on and off. But actually, the sox had been hitting better prior to Fri night, having a lot of runners on. They just weren't getting solid pitching. The sox have been getting better ab's from a lot of guys like Crede, Pods, Uribe, Arow, and PK lately.

Prior to last night the sox had avg'd 4.7 runs a game [33 runs] when they lost 6 of the last 7 games. Yet they gave up 6.7 [47 runs] during that same stretch.

IMO, the pitching needs to come back around. The hitters are turning it on at the right time

tifosiv122
09-17-2005, 09:13 AM
The last three World Series were won by Wild-Card teams...maybe its better if we don't win the central and take the WC instead? :?:

Erik

PaleHoseGeorge
09-17-2005, 09:17 AM
For all you fretters about "Big Mo" take some comfort knowing there is NO WAY the Sox will meet Cleveland in the first round -- the team with the biggest Mo in all of baseball. Win or lose, they're somebody else's problem come October 3.

Frankly if Cleveland makes the playoffs I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see them get bounced in 4 or 5 games. Momentum means ****.

Cleveland can suck my Big Mo.

:cool: