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View Full Version : *OFFICIAL* 9/15/05 Sox Lose 2 of 3 to the Effin' Royals Postgame Thread


Unregistered
09-15-2005, 04:09 PM
This wasn't supposed to happen. :redface: :mad: :(:

We came back and kept it close, but close enough to lose. You just know there was no way we were scoring 3 runs in the 8th if the Royals didn't score 4 the inning before. Just the way we've been playing lately. I'm slightly encouraged by the 8th, but there's no moral victories this late in the year. We need the kind that reduce our magic number.

We need to show up in Minnesota with a sense of urgency - those 6 games against the Indians are going to be a killer and will most definately decide the winner of the division, and possibly who makes the playoffs and who doesn't.

Ozzie/KW/JR/Ron Schueler/Carlton Fisk/The Get Up Guy, etc., need to go into the clubhouse and flip **** over and demand intensity out of this team for the last 2 weeks of the season. This series was an embarrassment.

I don't know what has happened to our beloved White Sox of the first few months, but I'd really like to have them back.

South Side
09-15-2005, 04:09 PM
They ****ing suck! CASE CLOSED.

hold2dibber
09-15-2005, 04:09 PM
Although it's obvious to any Sox fan who pays any attention at all, Mike Sweeney absolutely KILLS the Sox. Check out his splits vs: the Sox (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?statsId=5521&type=batting3). 1.056 OPS over the last 3 years and 11 HRs in 122 ABs. And that doesn't even include his 5 HRs and over 1.000 OPS against the Sox this year.

I pray that he gets dealt to an NL team, or at least out of the Central, this off season.

Baby Fisk
09-15-2005, 04:10 PM
*stomach pains* :(:

cheeses_h_rice
09-15-2005, 04:10 PM
http://www.hrdirect.com/images/products/1slNHMP.jpg

:thumbsup:

Kogs35
09-15-2005, 04:10 PM
i want my april-june sox back :whiner:

WhiteSox16K
09-15-2005, 04:10 PM
I'm at a loss for words...
http://www.cnnsi.com/2004/scorecard/08/05/interviews/p1_mora_Elsa.jpg
"Playoffs!?!? Don't talk about playoffs. Are you kidding me!? Playoffs!?!? I'm just hoping we can win a game, another game."

I think that pretty much sums it up...This is sick...:angry:

itsnotrequired
09-15-2005, 04:10 PM
Well that sure sucked...

buehrle4cy05
09-15-2005, 04:11 PM
This wasn't supposed to happen. :redface: :mad: :(:

We came back and kept it close, but close enough to lose. You just know there was no way we were scoring 3 runs in the 8th if the Royals didn't score 4 the inning before. Just the way we've been playing lately. I'm slightly encouraged by the 8th, but there's no moral victories this late in the year. We need the kind that reduce our magic number.

We need to show up in Minnesota with a sense of urgency - those 6 games against the Indians are going to be a killer and will most definately decide the winner of the division, and possibly who makes the playoffs and who doesn't.

Ozzie/KW/JR/Ron Schueler/Carlton Fisk/The Get Up Guy, etc., need to go into the clubhouse and flip **** over and demand intensity out of this team for the last 2 weeks of the season. This series was an embarrassment.

I don't know what has happened to our beloved White Sox of the first few months, but I'd really like to have them back.

Ozzie needs to yell and scream at this team to get that sense of urgency back. It looks like the whole team has bought into everybody saying that they are going to make the playoffs, and now they look like they just want the season to be over. I still have faith that they will pull through and make it, but right now, their play is agonizing to watch.

zmz723
09-15-2005, 04:11 PM
all that matters now is the six with cleveland
if we beat them, well be fine
if they beat us, were screwed

Joosh
09-15-2005, 04:11 PM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=2554

He has blood on his hands today...

Brian26
09-15-2005, 04:11 PM
Let's look on the bright side:

People who have tickets to the series next week against Cleveland (Mon 19th thru Wed 21st) are guaranteed to see the most meaningful games of the season so far.

That's all I got, guys. See you tomorrow.:(:

The Dude
09-15-2005, 04:11 PM
Wow again. The Royals scored 17 ****ing runs in two games against us! We didnt deserve to win yesterday and today as well. Pathetic, simply pathetic. Maybe we'll perform better on the no TV day Saturday. You know, take the pressure off of a nationally televised game.

depy48
09-15-2005, 04:11 PM
so who do the bears play this weekend?

thecell
09-15-2005, 04:11 PM
:chunks.

Nellie_Fox
09-15-2005, 04:11 PM
I did my psychotic rant last night. I'm going to go find something soothing to do.

Paxson93
09-15-2005, 04:11 PM
I've fought it off for a long time, but I think I am now officially a Dark Cloud.
:darkclouds:
:whiner:

TaylorStSox
09-15-2005, 04:12 PM
I think they need to relax. They're playing scared.

SoxFan78
09-15-2005, 04:12 PM
We need to show up in Minnesota with a sense of urgency - those 6 games against the Indians are going to be a killer and will most definately decide the winner of the division, and possibly who makes the playoffs and who doesn't.



We needed to show up to this game with a sense of urgency and looked what happened against the WORST TEAM IN THE MAJOR LEAGUES!!!!.

Its not looking good, not looking good at all. After winning 7 straight, the Sox have lost 5 of last 6.

MushMouth
09-15-2005, 04:12 PM
I laugh because otherwise I'd be crying like a little girl.


Please Ozzie, send Pods back to the DL. He has ZERO value right now - NONE.

I'd rather see Anderson or Borchard out there. At least there is a smidgeon of hope they'll drive in a run.

I hate this team, DESPISE this team, WANT TO KILL THIS TEAM!!!!

(this means I have reached level 2 of the stages of grief. I no longer am in denial. We are not a playoff team, and it will be embarrassing if we do make it...)

I_Liked_Manuel
09-15-2005, 04:12 PM
maybe this will be the one that fires 'em up

FoulTerritory
09-15-2005, 04:12 PM
They ****ing suck! CASE CLOSED.

I agree. And i'm not here panicking or jumping off ledges. I am just angry really.

The truth is, whatever this team was, it is not that anymore. They do suck now.

veeter
09-15-2005, 04:12 PM
I don't know what to think. This team is weird. I love 'em and I hate 'em. But I know this: their effort sucks and right now so do they. If they want to replace the '69 idiots as the biggest chokers...count me out. I have nothing more to say.

Rocky Soprano
09-15-2005, 04:13 PM
Someone tell me why I should not feel like this team is complete done for the year...:whiner: :whiner: :whiner:

PennStater98r
09-15-2005, 04:13 PM
What's with GIDP after a gift to get Crede on in the Top of the 9th?

I think I feel another stroke coming on at this point - not good for my health!

Deuce
09-15-2005, 04:13 PM
:ohno

"Ug."

PatK
09-15-2005, 04:13 PM
The team and the whole coaching staff needs to be slapped.

Ozzie is leaving starters in too long. Cora is sending guys when he should be holding them, but holding them when they should be going.

Burly-mon seems like he's burnt out. Yet we don't want to go with a 6 man rotation.

I don't like what's going on.

kittle42
09-15-2005, 04:13 PM
Does this mean the people who said today was a must win will now say tomorrow is a must win?

Oh, and another great outing for "Cy" Buehrle.

BRDSR
09-15-2005, 04:13 PM
You'll excuse me while I make my way to the toilet to induce vomitting.

There is a quickly thinning line between a dark cloud and a realist. When you score 14 runs in two games against the Royals, you should be 2-0 in those games. 1-1 would be a disappointment. 0-2 is beyond pitiful.

The Sox are impossible to watch and I'll probably not spend another three hours watching that type of baseball until they put together a modest winning streak. Wake me up in October. If they're in the playoffs, great. If not, I'll be expecting a $670 check from the White Sox.

BeviBall!
09-15-2005, 04:14 PM
Can't wait to see the gem Garland follows this up with. Buehrle has been a colossal let down this half. And Pods needs to get un-engaged, stat!

HawkDJ
09-15-2005, 04:14 PM
I just want us to win this division so that we have something to show for this year. We were pretty damned good for a while. But it's clear we'll get bulldozed in the playoffs should we make it.

kevingrt
09-15-2005, 04:14 PM
I'm feeling a bit quesy again... 4.5 and 13 two bad numbers. But we are visiting the Twinkie Dome and I did stay at a Holidae Inn Express last nite

pmck003
09-15-2005, 04:14 PM
:whiner:maybe the sox are in opposite world and the metrodome will be a cure-all.

mike squires
09-15-2005, 04:14 PM
My late night jog last night as I mentioned in a previous thread turned into a bit of a marathon. My jog took me passed Bloomington, Morton and into Peoria early in the morning. I stopped by the Library to check out the latest at WSI. Then my legs took me to a few podunk towns where I currently break. I figure by tommorow I will make it to the Quad cities. I hope I can make it back in time for the game on Monday. (I have tix) On second thought maybe I'll keep on running...:angry:

jshanahanjr
09-15-2005, 04:14 PM
Pods is done for the year! He has zero value if he can't steal a base. His defense is brutal and so is his power. Borchard & Anderson to the rescue!

Fake Chet Lemon
09-15-2005, 04:14 PM
CAN WE AGREE TO NEVER, EVER, EVER GET EXCITED ABOUT FIRST PLACE WHITE SOX TEAMS IN JULY? EVER!!! Glad McCArthy isn't in the rotation, great move Oz!!!!

zmz723
09-15-2005, 04:15 PM
(this means I have reached level 2 of the stages of grief. I no longer am in denial. We are not a playoff team, and it will be embarrassing if we do make it...)

still in step one here

Cellview22
09-15-2005, 04:15 PM
I hate this sick feeling in my stomach. I never dreamed the lead would be down to 4.5 so quickly.

Hopefully the Royals are on a little hot streak, and can take care of Cleveland, like they took care of us. Those fans are dying for more Krispy Kreme.

depy48
09-15-2005, 04:15 PM
look on the bright side...
the wildcard has won the world series the past couple years.... maybe the sox are just vying for the wildcard

BeviBall!
09-15-2005, 04:15 PM
I'm feeling a bit quesy again... 4.5 and 13 two bad numbers. But we are visiting the Twinkie Dome and I did stay at a Holidae Inn Express last nite

I'll buy this... and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

DaveIsHere
09-15-2005, 04:16 PM
It seems you cant get excited ever about this team, becasue when you do they play like poo. Lets get them tomorrow, hopefully KC will get up for the Tribe!! haha

itsnotrequired
09-15-2005, 04:16 PM
My late night jog last night as I mentioned in a previous thread turned into a bit of a marathon. My jog took me passed Bloomington, Morton and into Peoria early in the morning. I stopped by the Library to check out the latest at WSI. Then my legs took me to a few podunk towns where I currently break. I figure by tommorow I will make it to the Quad cities. I hope I can make it back in time for the game on Monday. (I have tix) On second thought maybe I'll keep on running...:angry:

LOL!

HawkDJ
09-15-2005, 04:16 PM
CAN WE AGREE TO NEVER, EVER, EVER GET EXCITED ABOUT FIRST PLACE WHITE SOX TEAMS IN JULY? EVER!!! Glad McCArthy isn't in the rotation, great move Oz!!!!

yeah, that won't happen. We say this every year. Somehow we always think things will be different.

zmz723
09-15-2005, 04:16 PM
look on the bright side...
the wildcard has won the world series the past couple years.... maybe the sox are just vying for the wildcard


thats because the wild card winner has had to have gotten real hot to win it. none of those teams sucked it up the last month and fallen to the wild card

ScottsdaleSoxFan
09-15-2005, 04:16 PM
We are absolutely dead

Might as well play the call ups, at least they care.

Honestly I want a lineup of this for a game
LF Ozuna
2B Iguchi
1B Konerko
DH Borchard
CF Rowand
RF Dye
C Pierzynski
SS Uribe
3B Crede

Might as well go with it. If Podsednik isn't going to run out that DP ball and Everett is going to run so damn slow around the bases DONT PLAY THEM. Hell, have Borchard play a game instead of Dye. Time for Borchard to play.

The Dude
09-15-2005, 04:16 PM
Regardless if we win the division or not, we have choked big time. Losing 6 of the last 7 games is not acceptable. I know I probably deserve to hear it from Flub fans because I was a pretty big jagbag the last two years when the Flubs choked it away. This sucks guys. Dark days are here but hopefully not for too long.

beckett21
09-15-2005, 04:17 PM
I did my psychotic rant last night. I'm going to go find something soothing to do.

I used up all of my positive energy last night. There's no way to put a pretty face on this one. :mad:

Cellview22
09-15-2005, 04:17 PM
I know we all feel like a collapse is inevitable.. But despite today's loss, there is some GREAT news:

I just saved a bunch of money on car insurance by switching to Geico.

harwar
09-15-2005, 04:18 PM
They're playing scared.

Thats what i was thinking through the whole game.
They seem to have no guts.
First half was .. everything is going our way.
Second half is .. nothing is going right.
Oh well,mush mush,push on,never give up.

Unregistered
09-15-2005, 04:18 PM
My late night jog last night as I mentioned in a previous thread turned into a bit of a marathon. My jog took me passed Bloomington, Morton and into Peoria early in the morning. I stopped by the Library to check out the latest at WSI. Then my legs took me to a few podunk towns where I currently break. I figure by tommorow I will make it to the Quad cities. I hope I can make it back in time for the game on Monday. (I have tix) On second thought maybe I'll keep on running...:angry:Run Forrest...er, Squires, run!

duke of dorwood
09-15-2005, 04:18 PM
I hate this sick feeling in my stomach. I never dreamed the lead would be down to 4.5 so quickly.

Hopefully the Royals are on a little hot streak, and can take care of Cleveland, like they took care of us. Those fans are dying for more Krispy Kreme.

Enjoy it-in a few days that will seem like a lot

ja1022
09-15-2005, 04:18 PM
I did my psychotic rant last night. I'm going to go find something soothing to do.

I read your psychotic rant a little while ago. The only ones who are psychotic are the ones who aren't concerned.

Domeshot17
09-15-2005, 04:18 PM
http://branam.com/artist/images/sunrise320.jpg

I know everyone is goin postal right now. But we still have the best Record in the AL. We still have the smallest magic number in the AL. We need to keep the faith. If the loyal followers are lose hope, how can the players keep theirs? I hate losing, but we need to rally around this team

ShoelessJoeS
09-15-2005, 04:18 PM
Buehrle has not been sharp lately as well as the rest of our staff, excluding Contreras. Surprisingly we've had the offense, but now it's time that our pitching staff steps it up, which is quite the contrast from the first half of the season where our pitchers were simply dominating the competition. Tough loss today folks. Oh well, we'll get 'em tomorrow.

:angry: :angry: :angry: :mad: :mad: :mad: :angry: :angry: :angry:

BeviBall!
09-15-2005, 04:19 PM
I have taken down the magic numbers from my cube and withdrawn my vacation requests. Very susperstitious!

Unregistered
09-15-2005, 04:19 PM
I used up all of my positive energy last night. There's no way to put a pretty face on this one. :mad:You and me both, Doc.

Argalarga
09-15-2005, 04:19 PM
Sure feels like the Sox are chasing the Indians right now.

Hey Ozzie: You realize that if the Sox don't make the playoffs, you're gonna lose your job, right? And NOBODY is going to hire the manager of one of the biggest choke jobs in MLB history. You do know that, right?

MarySwiss
09-15-2005, 04:20 PM
Well, I'm sure somebody's going to tell me to shut up and stop looking for bright spots, but...

1) If you look at the '59 Sox blurb on the home page, you will see that we clinched against the 2nd place Indians on Sept. 22 by beating the Indians--in Cleveland. (Let's hope it doesn't come down to that, though.)
2) And I believe that the first official major league in history was won by the Sox--over Cleveland.
3) I gotta believe that the main reason Cleveland's been on this roll is that they haven't played us since that series after the All-Star break, which, IIRC, we swept.

Anybody else got anything?

Dub25
09-15-2005, 04:20 PM
I'm glad I have DH softball game in 2 hours. It gives me something to do so I can forget about these A-Holes. 2005 White Sox will always be remembered as the biggest chokers ever. Yes, they are going to blow it.

SoxFan78
09-15-2005, 04:20 PM
If the Sox do choke everything away (I sure hope they dont) be ready for it to get a lot worse if you have Cub fan friends.

Remember back in '03 when Sox fans were dressing up as Bartman and making choking hand gestures, it will be 10 times as bad on Oct. 1st if we are not playing.

And what comeback would we have? At least they made the playoffs.

Jjav829
09-15-2005, 04:20 PM
Things going in the Sox favor right now:
- 4.5 (and shrinking quickly) game lead
- Time - The Indians don't have forever to catch us.

Things going in the Indians favor right now:
- Better starting pitching
- Better relief pitching
- Better hitting
- Better remaining schedule
- Less quality starting pitchers to face
- A hotter team

That about sums it up. Everything favors the Indians right now except one thing: They have to catch us. If this race was tied, I'd say we're done. But we do have a 4.5 game lead. Will that be the most important thing? I haven't a clue. Everything else favors the Indians though. They are just a better team. They are doing what we did in the first half and we are doing what they did in the first half. I don't know how this will all end up, but what I do know is that I'm not very optimistic about the Sox chances of advancing in the playoffs right now. 17. That's the numbers of games we have left after today. If this team doesn't turn it around quickly, it won't even matter if we win the division because our stay will be very short.

whitesoxfan
09-15-2005, 04:20 PM
well im not too pissed at the offense, but our pitching is not going to win us any more games if they continue to just half *** it the rest of the season. Hawk and DJ were right, our guys aren't working inside to the batters anymore, it seems like its nothing but away, away, away and then the hitters hit our mistakes. 17 runs in 2 days against the freaking Royals is unacceptable.

billyvsox
09-15-2005, 04:20 PM
Time to shake things up.

1. 2B) Harris
2. DH) Iguchi
3. 1B) Gload
4. LF) Borchard
5. SS) Uribe
6. CF) Anderson
7. RF) Timo
8. C) Casanova.
9. 3B) Ozuna

Pitching: McCarthy - Bajenaru - Cotts - Politte

We've got big issues boys!!!!

MsSoxVixen22
09-15-2005, 04:21 PM
I think the weather outside today pretty much goes with my mood right now-gray clouds, gloomy. I don't know WHAT is gonna light a fire under this teams ass. Its like they don't care. Ozzie doesn't seem to care. Maybe it's just wishful thinking but KW is probably trashing his hotel room as we speak. I don't know if they're tired, scared,trying too hard WHATEVER. SOMEONE (maybe Hawk) needs to get this team pissed and realize that they are in danger of becoming the laughing stock of the city and letting down all us Sox fans. I'm ashamed to admit it but I was VERY near tears after this loss. I think some lyrics from Linkin Park's (yeah, yeah I know) "In the End" is beggining to sum up this team's season. "I tried so hard and got so far but in the end, it doesn't even matter. I had to fall to loose it all..." :whiner:

socko82
09-15-2005, 04:21 PM
2 days in a row they gave leads to supposed stud pitchers against the worst team in baseball and two days in a row they crapped down their leg. Buerhle is supposed to be the leader of this staff, he needed to step up and shut them down today. How long til he starts accusing the Royals of stealing signs. Contreras is the only starter who has stepped up since the break but Ozzie Bevington still talks like he's not sure if he's good enough to start a game 4 if they make it that far. If they manage to squeek in he should be #1.

kittle42
09-15-2005, 04:21 PM
Time to shake things up.

1. 2B) Harris
2. DH) Iguchi
3. 1B) Gload
4. LF) Borchard
5. SS) Uribe
6. CF) Anderson
7. RF) Timo
8. C) Casanova.
9. 3B) Ozuna

Pitching: McCarthy - Bajenaru - Cotts - Politte

We've got big issues boys!!!!

Um, this is stupid.

veeter
09-15-2005, 04:22 PM
Hey Ozzie keep sitting Iguchi.

BeviBall!
09-15-2005, 04:22 PM
Time to shake things up.

1. 2B) Harris
2. DH) Iguchi
3. 1B) Gload
4. LF) Borchard
5. SS) Uribe
6. CF) Anderson
7. RF) Timo
8. C) Casanova.
9. 3B) Ozuna

Pitching: McCarthy - Bajenaru - Cotts - Politte

We've got big issues boys!!!!

Save this for Johan.

HotelWhiteSox
09-15-2005, 04:22 PM
Some of you are hilarious.

When we were losing, no one had heart or was trying. Then Iguchi comes up with the double, and he has heart as is trying, as if not being successful is automatically linked to not trying. It's too bad baseball players are this stupid, because if they actually tried and cared, maybe someone can hit .400 again.

Watching this blows, no doubt, but there's all these posts about being embarrassed as a fan and all that, then don't post and/or wear your gear. I was blasted for feeling a comeback was coming when we were down, and then everyone was suddenly back on the bandwagon after the Iguchi hit. The sad thing is that these are the people who will end up with playoff tickets or will be crying about not being able to get any when they feel the need to jump back on. As a fan you can criticize the team, as is deserved here, but whats the point if you are so embarrassed, I'm the one who gets embarrassed about fellow Sox fans when reading this, as if the players could just think, 'hmmm, lets win today', and it's done.

Not trying to justify the loss, but even though some of you hate to believe it, KC does have major league players on it, ones that did sweep the Yankees, on a team that has won more than 10 games.

If the unthinkable should happen, remember that Cleveland is playing the best out of everyone in the league, we'd have a nice chance at the wildcard, but I don't think it will have to come at that. I can't wait to see the dancing bananas and the WS proclaimers when we wipe the floor with Cleveland. I think I'll steer clear of the board until then, since some of you are suicidal and I don't think I can go through some of these posts anymore, you have my sympathy mods, peace!

ShoelessJoeS
09-15-2005, 04:22 PM
Time to shake things up.

1. 2B) Harris
2. DH) Iguchi
3. 1B) Gload
4. LF) Borchard
5. SS) Uribe
6. CF) Anderson
7. RF) Timo
8. C) Casanova.
9. 3B) Ozuna

Pitching: McCarthy - Bajenaru - Cotts - Politte

We've got big issues boys!!!!
Let's not get desperate here, it was a tough loss due to pitching...no PK in the lineup, GMAB.

beckett21
09-15-2005, 04:23 PM
If the Sox do choke everything away (I sure hope they dont) be ready for it to get a lot worse if you have Cub fan friends.

Remember back in '03 when Sox fans were dressing up as Bartman and making choking hand gestures, it will be 10 times as bad on Oct. 1st if we are not playing.

And what comeback would we have? At least they made the playoffs.

You'll lead a much happier existence if you stop worrying about what Cub fans think.

If the Sox somehow blow this thing, the pain of that alone will be worse than anything some idiotic Cub fan can say to me.

BRDSR
09-15-2005, 04:23 PM
We need to keep the faith. If the loyal followers are lose hope, how can the players keep theirs? I hate losing, but we need to rally around this team

You've got it backwards. If the players lose hope, how can the loyal followers keep theirs.

Like I said, if October rolls around and the Sox are in the playoffs, great. Until then I'm just going to consider us behind a couple of games in the division, kind of like 2003. In the meantime I'll get caught up on schoolwork and make sure I give my girlfriend lots of attention. At least something positive can come out of this mess.

soxrme
09-15-2005, 04:23 PM
http://branam.com/artist/images/sunrise320.jpg

I know everyone is goin postal right now. But we still have the best Record in the AL. We still have the smallest magic number in the AL. We need to keep the faith. If the loyal followers are lose hope, how can the players keep theirs? I hate losing, but we need to rally around this team

blame this on Posednik and Cora. Is Posednik still hurt? Why would Ozzie play him then:angry: He sits Guch again unbelievable:angry: Cora is a bonehead who has got to stop this crap enough is enough

TaylorStSox
09-15-2005, 04:23 PM
Thats what i was thinking through the whole game.
They seem to have no guts.
First half was .. everything is going our way.
Second half is .. nothing is going right.
Oh well,mush mush,push on,never give up.

It doesn't have a thing to do with guts. It has to do with playing passively because you're scared to lose. They should be doing everything agressively. They need to keep running. Cora needs to keep sending guys. They need to bunt. They need to hit and run. They need to pitch inside. They need to put the pressure on the opposition.

cheeses_h_rice
09-15-2005, 04:23 PM
What looked to be an easy stroll to clinching the division a month ago has now turned into an undeniably tight race, between the mediocre White Sox and the scorching Jndjans. Props to the Tribe for making this a race -- I remember a lot of us chuckling when they finally overtook Minnesota for second place.

The Sox will be playing their most meaningful regular season series in eons this weekend and next week. Sure, we had some key matchups earlier this year, in July of last year, and even in 2003, but nothing measures up to the scale of what faces the Sox. Right now they're battling to keep their names out of the history books as the all-time biggest choke artists during the regular season, which is a lot different than trying to protect a 2-game lead against the Twins.

Can they pull out of this tailspin and hold off the Tribe? Sure they can, but it's going to take better fundamentals at all positions and on the basepaths, and some quality pitching, which has been elusive.

I guess if there is a silver lining to the humongous dark cloud looming above the Sox, it's that each and every game down the stretch will merit watching or listening to, and if the Sox can survive this gauntlet, they'll be somewhat battle-tested for the postseason.

Go Sox.

Domeshot17
09-15-2005, 04:24 PM
Wow BillyV that is such a bad idea.

We got Garland throwing who threw a gem last time he faced Minnesota. The Offense scored 14 runs in 2 games and 20 in 3. You want to shake things up when, truthfully, we are close to getting back on track? The key is for ozzie to use the pen the correct way. The 7th was not the place for Luis, that was a spot for Cotts or Politte.

Common Ozzie

zmz723
09-15-2005, 04:24 PM
Time to shake things up.

1. 2B) Harris
2. DH) Iguchi
3. 1B) Gload
4. LF) Borchard
5. SS) Uribe
6. CF) Anderson
7. RF) Timo
8. C) Casanova.
9. 3B) Ozuna

Pitching: McCarthy - Bajenaru - Cotts - Politte

We've got big issues boys!!!!




that is what ozzie has done all year, and all we have done is gripe and moan about it. Our hitting is on right now, its just our pitching sucks

socko82
09-15-2005, 04:25 PM
What this team needs right now is more COWBELL....

Fenway
09-15-2005, 04:26 PM
watched the last 2 innings at Fenway

This is not the team I watched the first 4 months.....

anyhow welcome aboard

6 teams 4 spots and NOTHING is secure for any of us now

maybe seeing the Twinkies will wake them up, I really hope so

depy48
09-15-2005, 04:26 PM
alright slow down and take a deep breath

the pressure is still on the INDIANS not on us... we can afford to hit a streak like this a lose a few games and STILL have a 4.5 game lead in the standings (more than the angels (1 game lead) over the a's in the west or the red sox (2.5 lead) over the yankees in the east. the indians NEED to win, we dont need to win... if the indians lose then we fall into the al central title. we all would be more comfortable if the sox did hit a hot streak (and they will, dont worry), but until then, the pressure in on the INDIANS.

GO SOX!

Paulwny
09-15-2005, 04:26 PM
Well, I'm sure somebody's going to tell me to shut up and stop looking for bright spots, but...

1) If you look at the '59 Sox blurb on the home page, you will see that we clinched against the 2nd place Indians on Sept. 22 by beating the Indians--in Cleveland. (Let's hope it doesn't come down to that, though.)
2) And I believe that the first official major league in history was won by the Sox--over Cleveland.
3) I gotta believe that the main reason Cleveland's been on this roll is that they haven't played us since that series after the All-Star break, which, IIRC, we swept.

Anybody else got anything?

Usually after this type of game my stomach is churning and my mind goes into a rant mode. I haven't had these symptoms all year.
I'll probably go into a panic/pepcid frenzy if/when the lead is 3 games.

TaylorStSox
09-15-2005, 04:27 PM
I think it would do the site alot of good if the admin's filtered the words "dark clouds." The whole thing's getting ridiculous.




If you would have told me at the beginning of the season that this team would be 4.5 games on 9/15, then I'd be a happy man. Perspective.

harwar
09-15-2005, 04:27 PM
I think some lyrics from Linkin Park's (yeah, yeah I know) "In the End" is beggining to sum up this team's season. "I tried so hard and got so far but in the end, it doesn't even matter. I had to fall to loose it all..." :whiner:

I was thinking along the lines of The Doors .."The End"

anoone
09-15-2005, 04:27 PM
Last night's loss might have been the turning point of the season.

I can't see the Sox winning more than 1/3 against Minnesota this weekend.

I can't see the Sox winning more than 1/6 against Cleveland (I'm predicting a sweep in one of the series.)

I can't see the Tribe losing more than 4 games the rest of the year if they keep up their pace.

I don't see the Sox winning more than 8 games the rest of the year unless they wake up. And frankly, their tank might just be empty and nothing can be done.

We must face facts, the playoffs are in severe jeopardy.

Fake Chet Lemon
09-15-2005, 04:27 PM
I've fought it off for a long time, but I think I am now officially a Dark Cloud.
:darkclouds:
:whiner:


I bow to your genius Dark Cloud. I was anointed by someone as a disciple of Dark Cloud about three weeks ago because I dared be objective. I'm kind of proud of that now. Everytime I raise a thread that may be negative (but right) the Kool Aid drinkers pound me. Right after the All-Star game I started a thread about the Sox being a first half team every year. Of course the thread went nowhere, I said the team lacked Killer Instinct, that thread got locked down. I love this team, but I'm not an unobjective Kool Aid drinker. That seems to be too Cub-like to me. Now excuse me while I jump off a ledge regardless.

tstrike2000
09-15-2005, 04:29 PM
Well my friends....eat well and drink heavily tonight. Should help ease the pain somewhat. :gulp:

Fake Chet Lemon
09-15-2005, 04:29 PM
I think it would do the site alot of good if the admin's filtered the words "dark clouds."
.


How is the view with your head in the sand?

Cat Thief
09-15-2005, 04:31 PM
Last night's loss might have been the turning point of the season.

I can't see the Sox winning more than 1/3 against Minnesota.

I can't see the Sox winning more than 1/6 against Cleveland (I'm predicting a sweep in one of the series.)

I can't see the Tribe losing more than 4 games the rest of the year if they keep up their pace.

I don't see the Sox winning more than 8 games the rest of the year unless they wake up. And frankly, their tank might just be empty and nothing can be done.

We must face facts, the playoffs are in severe jeopardy.


I am reading alot of stupid rants in here but this one takes the cake.
Get lost. You don't belong here.

hawkeyesox17
09-15-2005, 04:31 PM
Am I the only one who needs a hug right now? :angry: :angry: :mad: :angry: :angry:

MarySwiss
09-15-2005, 04:31 PM
If you would have told me at the beginning of the season that this team would be 4.5 games on 9/15, then I'd be a happy man. Perspective.

This is practically a word-for-word repetition of an e-mail I got from my brother in Arlington Heights, only he said he would not yet have come down out of the clouds and referred to it as "timing."

iamkoza
09-15-2005, 04:32 PM
I was pretty depressed after not being able to get playoff tixs today.... and this crap sure isn't making me feel any better. Any way we can obtain mike sweeney for the single reason of him then not being able to own us?

TaylorStSox
09-15-2005, 04:33 PM
How is the view with your head in the sand?

I'm tired of talking about who's a "dark cloud" and who's not.

It's not like I don't realize that we suck and we're being chased by a very good team. I'm not going to worry until we're the ones in 2nd place.

Argalarga
09-15-2005, 04:33 PM
I'm not on the "OMG! We've already blown it!!!1!!" bandwagon.

But I will say this: the Sox are playing their worst ball at the worst time for it. And we have a chance to right the ship against the Twins. If we can get the lead back up to 6 or 7 when we face the Tribe next week, we'll be fine. But if it's down to 2 or 3, it's anybody's game.

ShoelessJoeS
09-15-2005, 04:34 PM
I'm tired of talking about who's a "dark cloud" and who's not.

It's not like I don't realize that we suck and we're being chased by a very good team. I'm not going to worry until we're the ones in 2nd place.
Thanks, that needed to be said.

SoxFan78
09-15-2005, 04:35 PM
Im leaving for Vegas tomorrow morning. I have decided during that time, I will not watch anything White Sox. Hopefully when I come back Tuesday night, the April-July Sox will be playing, not the August-Current Sox.

Chisox353014
09-15-2005, 04:35 PM
Well, I can't imagine how there could be anyone left who's not worried about this team now. Time to go home and go for a LONG run to chill out.

We better make the Twins our *&%$* this weekend! :mad:

RallyBowl
09-15-2005, 04:35 PM
Some of you are hilarious.

When we were losing, no one had heart or was trying. Then Iguchi comes up with the double, and he has heart as is trying, as if not being successful is automatically linked to not trying. It's too bad baseball players are this stupid, because if they actually tried and cared, maybe someone can hit .400 again.

Watching this blows, no doubt, but there's all these posts about being embarrassed as a fan and all that, then don't post and/or wear your gear. I was blasted for feeling a comeback was coming when we were down, and then everyone was suddenly back on the bandwagon after the Iguchi hit. The sad thing is that these are the people who will end up with playoff tickets or will be crying about not being able to get any when they feel the need to jump back on. As a fan you can criticize the team, as is deserved here, but whats the point if you are so embarrassed, I'm the one who gets embarrassed about fellow Sox fans when reading this, as if the players could just think, 'hmmm, lets win today', and it's done.

Not trying to justify the loss, but even though some of you hate to believe it, KC does have major league players on it, ones that did sweep the Yankees, on a team that has won more than 10 games.

If the unthinkable should happen, remember that Cleveland is playing the best out of everyone in the league, we'd have a nice chance at the wildcard, but I don't think it will have to come at that. I can't wait to see the dancing bananas and the WS proclaimers when we wipe the floor with Cleveland. I think I'll steer clear of the board until then, since some of you are suicidal and I don't think I can go through some of these posts anymore, you have my sympathy mods, peace!

Good post. I won't go nuts like I did last night. I will just again state that the games that matter the most now are the head to head games with Cleveland. And I will again state that I firmly believe that we are gonna whup their cartoon asses. Having said that, Ozzie should now prove that he is the unquestioned leader of this team. How does he do it? I don't know, if I did I would be the manager. But how a team plays is a reflection of the manager, and right now they are not getting it done. Neither is he. I think I'm gonna e-mail Ozzie tonight. I know he can light a fire under these guys, and he will, just in the nick of time. We are not as good as the team from the first half, not as bad as the team from the seond half. Somewhere in between. But we are still good enough to make some noise in October.

"So I guess there's only one thing left to do then."
"What's that?"
"WIN THE WHOLE ****IN THING."

Anyone wanna sell their playoff tickets yet? I'll gladly take 'em off your hands.

buehrle4cy05
09-15-2005, 04:36 PM
This made me feel marginally better:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=250914112

At least we're not alone.

34 Inch Stick
09-15-2005, 04:36 PM
I have gotten the negativity out of my system and now I am ready to move on.


A 4.5 game lead in September is a good thing.

Shafe72
09-15-2005, 04:36 PM
one

day

at

a

time

hdog1017
09-15-2005, 04:37 PM
I haven't posted in a while. Maybe if I post they'll get back to their winning ways.

I'm desperate.

Lip Man 1
09-15-2005, 04:37 PM
Wow.

That's all I can say, just wow.

These guys are so tight right now you couldn't pull a needle out of their collective rear ends with a tractor.

And it shows in their swings, in their goofy base running blunders and in their body language.

Wow.

Lip

AZChiSoxFan
09-15-2005, 04:37 PM
Usually after this type of game my stomach is churning and my mind goes into a rant mode. I haven't had these symptoms all year.
I'll probably go into a panic/pepcid frenzy if/when the lead is 3 games.

Well, I guess that will be after the games tomorrow night.

iamkoza
09-15-2005, 04:37 PM
i think im going to wear my white sox visor inside out tomorrow to work. Maybe wear it around my arm or leg... i gotta try something to break this losing crap

Cat Thief
09-15-2005, 04:38 PM
I:tomatoaward I always wanted to do this.

Dan H
09-15-2005, 04:38 PM
Didn't see the game, but I know it would have been great to have a comeback after that horrid game last night. Sox used to win close games; now they are losing them. It didn't help to give up that insurance run in the eighth.

I don't think someone screaming at them will do any good. They are just not executing. Winning is a contagious thing, and so is losing. I thought with the seven game winning streak to start this month that August was their slump, and their ship was righted. I guess I assumed too much.

Otherwise, like other fans, I am out of words.

iamkoza
09-15-2005, 04:38 PM
I have gotten the negativity out of my system and now I am ready to move on.


A 4.5 game lead in September is a good thing.

very true.... but having led by 15 games previously... it feels like a 0.5 game lead

TaylorStSox
09-15-2005, 04:38 PM
Wow.

That's all I can say, just wow.

These guys are so tight right now you couldn't pull a needle out of their collective rear ends with a tractor.

And it shows in their swings, in their goofy base running blunders and in their body language.

Wow.

Lip

I disagree. We're getting production from our worst hitters, Uribe, Crede, Rowand and Harris. The pitchers are the ones that are tight. MB looked flat out scared today.

Jjav829
09-15-2005, 04:39 PM
I think it would do the site alot of good if the admin's filtered the words "dark clouds." The whole thing's getting ridiculous.

Agreed. If I had the power to do it, I would. At first it was an OK term used to describe those who seemed to only focus on the negative when everything else was going great. Right now, nothing is going well. There isn't a whole hell of a lot to be happy about. People that are extremely nervous about this team aren't "dark clouds." They're simply White Sox fans who have seen their team drop 10 games off their lead in a month and a half and don't like what they are seeing. The whole dark cloud thing has become ridiculous.

If you would have told me at the beginning of the season that this team would be 4.5 games on 9/15, then I'd be a happy man. Perspective.

And if I told you that in a one month time span we would lose 7.5 games off that lead, and 10 games in a month and a half, how would you feel then? Quite frankly, I hope this team doesn't feel like you. I hope they're not saying, "Well we still have a lead so there's no reason to worry right now." I hope they realize how important it is for them to improve in a hurry.

fuzzy_patters
09-15-2005, 04:39 PM
one

day

at

a

time

You can spin it all you want. If you are taking it one day at a time, today our team sucked.

beckett21
09-15-2005, 04:40 PM
I bow to your genius Dark Cloud. I was anointed by someone as a disciple of Dark Cloud about three weeks ago because I dared be objective. I'm kind of proud of that now. Everytime I raise a thread that may be negative (but right) the Kool Aid drinkers pound me. Right after the All-Star game I started a thread about the Sox being a first half team every year. Of course the thread went nowhere, I said the team lacked Killer Instinct, that thread got locked down. I love this team, but I'm not an unobjective Kool Aid drinker. That seems to be too Cub-like to me. Now excuse me while I jump off a ledge regardless.

Nothing like gloating when the team is in a free-fall. Feels pretty good to rub everyone's nose in it, huh?

We're all so proud of you too! You were right all along. What foresight. :worship:

:rolleyes:

ChiSoxGirl
09-15-2005, 04:41 PM
Am I the only one who needs a hug right now? :angry: :angry: :mad: :angry: :angry:

Definitely not! I need one, too. :angry: :angry: :mad::whiner: :whiner:

JRIG
09-15-2005, 04:42 PM
And if I told you that in a one month time span we would lose 7.5 games off that lead, and 10 games in a month and a half, how would you feel then? Quite frankly, I hope this team doesn't feel like you. I hope they're not saying, "Well we still have a lead so there's no reason to worry right now." I hope they realize how important it is for them to improve in a hurry.

This is my point exactly. And I'll add to that,

If I told you at the beginning of the season that we would have by far the fewest at bats with runners in scoring position in the American League, how would you feel?

This team needs to start playing better quickly. The playoffs are still a good bet, but after that they'll be crushed if they don't get their asses in gear.

TaylorStSox
09-15-2005, 04:42 PM
And if I told you that in a one month time span we would lose 7.5 games off that lead, and 10 games in a month and a half, how would you feel then? Quite frankly, I hope this team doesn't feel like you. I hope they're not saying, "Well we still have a lead so there's no reason to worry right now." I hope they realize how important it is for them to improve in a hurry.


I'm not that worried because we're still playing .500 ball. Obviously, I'd like to be playing better but, this is all Cleveland's doing. They haven't caught up to us because of how bad we've played. They've caught up to us because they're unbelievably hot right now.

I'm giving credit where it's due. Kudos to Cleveland for proving a hell of a lot of people wrong and making a race out of this. Our destiny's still in our hands and I like our chances.

Lip Man 1
09-15-2005, 04:42 PM
Taylor:

Last I looked the pitchers were part of the team. This is a 'team' not pitchers vs. hitters. If they collectively blow the biggest lead ever in the history of MLB (I'm still checking figures on this but so far from what I've found they would be...) the entire 'team' burns together, pitchers, hitters, bargan basement bench warmers, manager, and coaches.

Lip

TFLEM33
09-15-2005, 04:43 PM
Man, what a tough one to watch. As if last night wasn't bad enough! If you would have told me our PITCHING would be a problem down the stretch earlier in the year, I would have called you crazy. I cannot believe how terrible this staff is doing right now. It's like no matter how many runs the offense puts up, our pitchers are going to give up one more. They seriously need to wake up and have a reality check. Cleveland is for real guys! They are no longer the young team waiting for next year. They are playing for this year. If we don't take two of three at Minnesota, I do not see us winning the Central this year. This division title is still ours right now however. We need to step it up, get that second wind, and play like we deserve it, because if we lose this thing, it is no one's fault but our own. This is OUR division to win. Step it up Sox, get your minds right, and play like the team I could not wait to get home to watch at the beginning of the year. Go Sox!

downstairs
09-15-2005, 04:43 PM
I'm not that worried because we're still playing .500 ball.

:rolleyes:

Now we're PROUD of playing .500 ball?

Sheeeeeeesh!

fuzzy_patters
09-15-2005, 04:45 PM
:rolleyes:

Now we're PROUD of playing .500 ball?

Sheeeeeeesh!

That must be what it is like to be a Cubs fan.

TaylorStSox
09-15-2005, 04:45 PM
Taylor:

Last I looked the pitchers were part of the team. This is a 'team' not pitchers vs. hitters. If they collectively blow the biggest lead ever in the history of MLB (I'm still checking figures on this but so far from what I've found they would be...) the entire 'team' burns together, pitchers, hitters, bargan basement bench warmers, manager, and coaches.

Lip


You said that the tightness shows in their swings and that's flat out 100% wrong. They're raking right now. The pitching is failing. Alot of the gaffes you're seeing in the outfield are from those guys trying to do too much. They're trying to pick up their pitches and overplaying alot of balls. Yesterday, Dye misplays 2 balls because he's looking to gun a runner down.

BeviBall!
09-15-2005, 04:46 PM
Will Ozzie still start Orlando on Saturday? Maybe this is bizarro world and we'll sweep the Twins. God, whose sure of anything, anymore?

CHIsoxNation
09-15-2005, 04:46 PM
If you would have told me at the beginning of the season that this team would be 4.5 games on 9/15, then I'd be a happy man. Perspective.

I have been saying this for a while now. As much as I am disappointed with how the team has been playing, I still look at this fact- If the sox came into september with the same record as the tribe or twins or whoever and then pulled to a 4 1/2 game lead in the division with two weeks to play. I would feel pretty comfortable.

I believe we were so spoiled with that huge lead that nobody wants to look at the fact that we aren't chasing anyone, everyone is chasing us. People are looking at the two Cleveland series that we have left and saying that those games will be Cleveland's chance to take over the thrown. I look at it as our chance to put them away.

Maybe it's just me, but I for one am not throwing in the towel on this team. They took KC for granted and they got a well deserved pounding. I don't think they will make the same mistake in Minnesota.

Lip Man 1
09-15-2005, 04:46 PM
Actually the Sox are 31-28 since the All Star break. A tad better then .500 but nowhere close, not even in the same stadium, to the type of team they were for the first half. (And I didn't expect them to play .750 ball the rest of the way, but I felt .600 was do-able...)

Lip

TaylorStSox
09-15-2005, 04:47 PM
:rolleyes:

Now we're PROUD of playing .500 ball?

Sheeeeeeesh!

I'm not proud to be playing .500 ball but you guys are acting like we're playing .250 ball.




@ fuzzy_patters...

Nice way to bring the Cubs into it. lol. The fascination with the Cubs continues. We're in a playoff race and some of you guys still can't stop thinking about the team on the north side.

Baby Fisk
09-15-2005, 04:48 PM
If they collectively blow the biggest lead ever in the history of MLB (I'm still checking figures on this but so far from what I've found they would be...) Aw, Lip. Why can't you collect bottle caps instead of heartbreaking statistics? :(:

Stay cool everyone. Tomorrow is another...oh god I can't even do this right now... :(:

Shafe72
09-15-2005, 04:48 PM
Taylor:

Last I looked the pitchers were part of the team. This is a 'team' not pitchers vs. hitters. If they collectively blow the biggest lead ever in the history of MLB (I'm still checking figures on this but so far from what I've found they would be...) the entire 'team' burns together, pitchers, hitters, bargan basement bench warmers, manager, and coaches.

Lip

Amen, Lip.

Something we all (hopefully) learned in Little League:
"You win as a team, you lose as a team."

Never more of a reality than right now.

Here's hoping we continue winning as a team (as we have for most of this season).

Lip Man 1
09-15-2005, 04:48 PM
Taylor says 'perspective...'

Lip asks what about a little item called 'momentum...'

Lip

BeviBall!
09-15-2005, 04:49 PM
I think the key to the rest of the season is Monday. Even if we lose all three and Cleveland win all three this weekend (won't happen), we'll still have a 1.5 lead. Then, it's a sprint, just like a playoff series. Take 2 of 3 or sweep and you're on your way.

I have faith that we'll show up against Minny and Cleveland... esp. at home.

fuzzy_patters
09-15-2005, 04:50 PM
I'm not proud to be playing .500 ball but you guys are acting like we're playing .250 ball.




@ fuzzy_patters...

Nice way to bring the Cubs into it. lol. The fascination with the Cubs continues. We're in a playoff race and some of you guys still can't stop thinking about the team on the north side.

You are the one that brought up .500. I could not care less about the Cubs, but they are a perfect example of a team that is continuously around .500. Personally, I expect better than meciocrity.

Ol' No. 2
09-15-2005, 04:51 PM
I think the key to the rest of the season is Monday. Even if we lose all three and Cleveland win all three this weekend (won't happen), we'll still have a 1.5 lead. Then, it's a sprint, just like a playoff series. Take 2 of 3 or sweep and you're on your way.

I have faith that we'll show up against Minny and Cleveland... esp. at home.Exactly. The situation hasn't changed one iota from yesterday. It is still going to come down the the 6 head-to-head games with the Toons.

Jjav829
09-15-2005, 04:51 PM
I'm not that worried because we're still playing .500 ball. Obviously, I'd like to be playing better but, this is all Cleveland's doing. They haven't caught up to us because of how bad we've played. They've caught up to us because they're unbelievably hot right now.

I'm giving credit where it's due. Kudos to Cleveland for proving a hell of a lot of people wrong and making a race out of this. Our destiny's still in our hands and I like our chances.

But they have caught up to us because we're playing bad baseball. Since the All-Star break, we're 30-28. That's a far cry from our pre All-Star break record of 58-29. Yes, Cleveland is playing much better. But they've only caught up to us because we've barely played .500 baseball since the break. If we were even just 10 games over since the break right now, this race would be over.

TaylorStSox
09-15-2005, 04:51 PM
You are the one that brought up .500. I could not care less about the Cubs, but they are a perfect example of a team that is continuously around .500. Personally, I expect better than meciocrity.

Actually, we're a better example of continuously playing .500 ball. That's been our record for the last 15 years.

TaylorStSox
09-15-2005, 04:53 PM
But they have caught up to us because we're playing bad baseball. Since the All-Star break, we're 30-28. That's a far cry from our pre All-Star break record of 58-29. Yes, Cleveland is playing much better. But they've only caught up to us because we've barely played .500 baseball since the break. If we were even just 10 games over since the break right now, this race would be over.

And they're something like 18-3 in their last 21. It's next to impossible to hold a lead when the team chasing is playing that well.

Again, I'm not saying that we don't suck, but give credit where it's due. Cleveland's just a very good team.

Lip Man 1
09-15-2005, 04:53 PM
Bevi:

Honest to God I hope your right...but I just don't know anymore. They can't beat Santana, The Duke looks to be all of 150 and their home record since June 1st is 26-22 :?:

The thing is that for all of the 'wishin' and hopin' and thinkin' and prayin' (with regards to Dusty Springfield) there isn't a damn thing we fans can do about it but sit there and take it. The only people who can do anything about it are the players and their performance of late has been less then inspiring.

Lip

downstairs
09-15-2005, 04:54 PM
TaylorStSox[/b]]
If you would have told me at the beginning of the season that this team would be 4.5 games on 9/15, then I'd be a happy man. Perspective.


If you told me at the beginning season we'd play .700 ball, then .500 ball for the entire second half, I would be just as worried and pissed off.

Perspective?!

Try "Momentum".

Jjav829
09-15-2005, 04:55 PM
And they're something like 18-3 in their last 21. It's next to impossible to hold a lead when the team chasing is playing that well.

Again, I'm not saying that we suck, but give credit where it's due. Cleveland's just a very good team.

I did give them credit. They're playing very well. But my point remains that if this team was playing 10 games over .500 since the break - a very reasonable and not-so-impossible mark - the division race would be over. Instead we're barely playing .500 baseball and thus we've allowed the Indians back into this race. When you have a 15 game lead, it's all on you. No one can just take that away because they play good. You have to help them out by playing bad and that's exactly what we've done.

TaylorStSox
09-15-2005, 04:56 PM
I did give them credit. They're playing very well. But my point remains that if this team was playing 10 games over .500 since the break - a very reasonable and not-so-impossible mark - the division race would be over. Instead we're barely playing .500 baseball and thus we've allowed the Indians back into this race. When you have a 15 game lead, it's all on you. No one can just take that away because they play good. You have to help them out by playing bad and that's exactly what we've done.


Agreed. I'm not giving up though. It's time for the team and their fans to man up.

BeviBall!
09-15-2005, 04:57 PM
Bevi:

Honest to God I hope your right...but I just don't know anymore. They can't beat Santana, The Duke looks to be all of 150 and their home record since June 1st is 26-22 :?:

The thing is that for all of the 'wishin' and hopin' and thinkin' and prayin' (with regards to Dusty Springfield) there isn't a damn thing we fans can do about it but sit there and take it. The only people who can do anything about it are the players and their performance of late has been less then inspiring.

Lip

Focus on winning tomorrow. Get to the homestand with at least a 3 game lead and we're in good shape. Santana vs. El Duque... crazier things have happened... like losing 2 games to the Royals in crunch time.

Lip Man 1
09-15-2005, 04:57 PM
Just a few comments:

No.2:

The regretable thing is that it has come down to those six games. Under no circumstances should it have been allowed to come to that. Losing games to the Royals? the Tigers? The Blue Jays and Mariners? Most of those at home? Please. I give the Indians a lot of credit but not as much as some folks here do.

Lip

fuzzy_patters
09-15-2005, 04:59 PM
Actually, we're a better example of continuously playing .500 ball. That's been our record for the last 15 years.

We haven't won the World Series in the last 15 years, either.

That is why .500 ball is only acceptable to Cubs fans. They are the only professional sports franchise that I know of that has fans that are proud of being perpetually mediocre.

As soon as you accept the fact that being average is not good enough, the sooner you will understand why people are down on this team. They need to turn it around. There is no reason that there should still be any sort of a race at this point in the season. Cleveland should be buried by now.

Lip Man 1
09-15-2005, 05:00 PM
Bevi:

Actually the Sox have lost 4 of their last 6 to K.C. in K.C. and are 4-5 overall against that trash since late July.

Not exactly winning baseball.

Lip

chisoxmike
09-15-2005, 05:00 PM
Anyone that says "at least we made a come back" will annoying me.

A loss is a loss, a win is a win.

Too many double plays to end innings, and lackluster play.

This is a big L.

This is getting bad.

Fenway
09-15-2005, 05:02 PM
Just a few comments:

No.2:

The regretable thing is that it has come down to those six games. Under no circumstances should it have been allowed to come to that. Losing games to the Royals? the Tigers? The Blue Jays and Mariners? Most of those at home? Please. I give the Indians a lot of credit but not as much as some folks here do.

Lip

What is tragic is now the games with the Twins are important as well. Those 6 games may mean just as much when you consider Cleveland playing the Royals at the same time.

Ol' No. 2
09-15-2005, 05:03 PM
Just a few comments:

No.2:

The regretable thing is that it has come down to those six games. Under no circumstances should it have been allowed to come to that. Losing games to the Royals? the Tigers? The Blue Jays and Mariners? Most of those at home? Please. I give the Indians a lot of credit but not as much as some folks here do.

LipNo question, the Sox have flat sucked lately. But ups and downs are part of the game. They could start another 8-game winning streak tomorrow. That's the thing about this game - you never know. They look gassed to me, but that seems to happen to every team somewhere along the line. Then you get your second wind. I just hope it's soon.

BTW, if it makes anyone feel any better the Angels got swept by the Mariners this week, so it happens to other teams, too.

BeviBall!
09-15-2005, 05:05 PM
Bevi:

Actually the Sox have lost 4 of their last 6 to K.C. in K.C. and are 4-5 overall against that trash since late July.

Not exactly winning baseball.

Lip

We gave up 8 doubles to them, today. EIGHT! Is Royce Clayton playing his radio loud enough for them to hear it in AZ?

I'm really disgusted with Buehrle the last month... it was his time to rise up and be a stopper, a leader. And he went about it like the Rockies 4 string pitcher. This team has no fire... the only one with spunk is Carl, but how can you talk when you get thrown out at every base because you're not paying attention?

Unregistered
09-15-2005, 05:06 PM
BTW, if it makes anyone feel any better the Angels got swept by the Mariners this week, so it happens to other teams, too.Not really, considering they just got done handing us our asses last week.

RallyBowl
09-15-2005, 05:06 PM
I'm thinking about not getting playoff tickets all of a sudden. I just might take all the money I saved and get tickets to all 3 games against the Indians next week. Walking a fine line here, but this team needs to see support from us and I plan on being there for the biggest three games of the season. You all should too. We are gonna show them what's up, and I want to witness the ass kicking first hand.

JohnBasedowYoda
09-15-2005, 05:06 PM
ugh my head hurts.

where's the bears thread?

Madvora
09-15-2005, 05:06 PM
Well it seems like the Red Sox have held a 2 or 3 game lead over the Yankees forever and that never changes. Let's just hope this lead never gets any smaller.

We have the hottest team in baseball running us down right now when we're stumbling to death. I can't believe how many games we used to be up by and every day I think this nightmare is going to end... it just keeps getting longer.

The good thing is that one win against the Indians takes 2 off the magic number. The Indians winning 4 of 6 from us would only gain 2 games in the standings and lose 4 in the magic number.
It's definitely in our hands now. I would like to think that the Indians are scared to play us because of how this season has gone so far, but in reality I think it's the other way around.

fuzzy_patters
09-15-2005, 05:07 PM
I think this team needs to win one like this one today. If they had completed the comeback, it could have been the big momentum win they need to get their mojo back. Unfortunately, Podsednik hit into a DP. They need to start executing.

Iron Dragon
09-15-2005, 05:07 PM
Gee, we're finally getting some attention now that our lead is slipping away. SC leads off with Royals-White Sox, with a long discussion about the Central winner and homefield in the AL. Jayson Stark (baseball guru), says panic, Kruk says Sox still win the division. Time to go beat Minnesota.

BeviBall!
09-15-2005, 05:08 PM
I'm thinking about not getting playoff tickets all of a sudden. I just might take all the money I saved and get tickets to all 3 games against the Indians next week. Walking a fine line here, but this team needs to see support from us and I plan on being there for the biggest three games of the season. You all should too. We are gonna show them what's up, and I want to witness the ass kicking first hand.

Treat those games as the playoffs, because that's what they are. A home-at-home to decide it all. Call it the ALES. American League Emergency Series.

Madvora
09-15-2005, 05:09 PM
It actually makes it worse that the Indians aren't playing tonight. That seems to be the thing I'm paying attention to every night. Holding out hope that the Sox could accidentally win and the Indians accidentally lose.

Frankly Missing
09-15-2005, 05:10 PM
This train has been coming down the tracks for two months, we are sadly seeing the off season doubts about this team rearing their ugly heads.

I have been wringing my hands, fretting and worrying over the state of the Sox. But it is what it is.

Despite the obvious sorry sequence of events, I still believe this team will be the AL Central Division Champs.

Get your chins up White Sox, play hard.

RallyBowl
09-15-2005, 05:11 PM
Gee, we're finally getting some attention now that our lead is slipping away. SC leads off with Royals-White Sox, with a long discussion about the Central winner and homefield in the AL. Jayson Stark (baseball guru), says panic, Kruk says Sox still win the division. Time to go beat Minnesota.

Kruk says what?!?!?! Now it's officially time to panic! Reynolds and Gammons probably said we were locks for the WS, too! we're doomed!

Iron Dragon
09-15-2005, 05:13 PM
Kruk says what?!?!?! Now it's officially time to panic! Reynolds and Gammons probably said we were locks for the WS, too! we're doomed!

LOL!

SoxSpeed22
09-15-2005, 05:14 PM
THIS SUCKS!:mad:

SoxSpeed22
09-15-2005, 05:21 PM
I'm at a loss for words...
http://www.cnnsi.com/2004/scorecard/08/05/interviews/p1_mora_Elsa.jpg
"Playoffs!?!? Don't talk about playoffs. Are you kidding me!? Playoffs!?!? I'm just hoping we can win a game, another game."

I think that pretty much sums it up...This is sick...:angry: Don't steal from me! I put that in the gameday thread! link (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=847605#post847605)

Dan Mega
09-15-2005, 05:21 PM
I'm worried as hell. I cannot be optimistic when the Sox are turning into the Sux. .500 ball? Since when, July 5th?

:angry: I know we are still in good position but WE ARE LOSING A LOT and CLEVELAND IS WINNING A LOT.:angry:

Losing the division is possible...not making the playoffs is not probable but possible.

Hope they can take all 3 in the Heftybag Dome. Only then will Bananarama come back to life to write a Sox tribute song! :bandance:

wassagstdu
09-15-2005, 05:22 PM
For the Indians, winning would be fantastic. For the Sox, losing would be disastrous. There you have it. If you are playing not to lose, you're done.

SoxSpeed22
09-15-2005, 05:27 PM
For the Indians, winning would be fantastic. For the Sox, losing would be disastrous. There you have it. If you are playing not to lose, you're done.No argument here.

WhiteSox16K
09-15-2005, 05:31 PM
Don't steal from me! I put that in the gameday thread! link (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=847605#post847605)

Sorry, didn't see that in the gameday thread, but to be honest I did have the idea since last night. I'm not surprised two of us had the same thought though. Sorry, didn't realize it.

Unregistered
09-15-2005, 05:41 PM
Sorry, didn't see that in the gameday thread, but to be honest I did have the idea since last night. I'm not surprised two of us had the same thought though. Sorry, didn't realize it.You're both kidding yourselves if either of you think you pioneered the idea of using that quote in this context.

Apparently neither of you listen to sports radio. :cool:

Vernam
09-15-2005, 06:04 PM
This made me feel marginally better:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=250914112

At least we're not alone.That was my initial reaction, too, on hearing the Angels got swept by Seattle. Then I thought, "Wait, the guys who swept us last weekend couldn't beat the worst AL team in the next series they played." :o:

I'm still confident -- yes, confident -- they're going to win the division. That shouldn't seem such a radical statement when they've got a 4.5 game lead. But if people think the team has been tight recently, the real pressure may only be starting. The national media have mostly left us alone during the slide, and that could change now that the lead is under 5 games.

I'll be at every game on the last homestand. It's going to be memorable one way or another, so let's pack the place.

VC

kitekrazy
09-15-2005, 06:11 PM
Well it's nothing new for the Sox to choke. Maybe this season they decided to postpone it a month.
We may have another group of guys who can't deliver when they really need to. That's basically been the Sox history the past 5 years.

If by chance the Sox do choke, they might as well move out of town, or get A-Rod because I can the see the attendance being the lowest in baseball.

Yes, Cleveland is doing great but the Sox aren't even playing mediocre baseball. I'm having late 70's flashbacks just watching this team.

Let's hope we don't witness baseball history-the crash of 2005.

HotelWhiteSox
09-15-2005, 06:12 PM
Instead of looking at only the losses and generalizing that because of losing to certain teams that this is not a playoff team, why not take a step back and take a look at what the problem is?

When this team's pitching (both pen and SP) is normal, this team can easily beat anyone in the league. That's the focus of the club, and it's a given that the offense will average 2-4 runs a game. The defense complements the starting pitching. In the first half, everything was running on full cylinders with a little bit of luck thrown in, hence the great 1st half record.

I still think the team is as good as the 1st half record, but it's all about the pitching and defense. The Pods situation is a little worrying because he'd help get to 4+ runs a game, but he's been spreading some hits around and he may be still nursing the injury.

Anyways, main point, when the pitching is as off as it's been for weeks, it won't matter who we face, an opposing major league team has a good chance of winning. Because of this, I don't think we should be worried that they are losing to a KC caliber team, but more about the pitching. Then again, this all means nothing if the pitching doesn't get better or the coaching staff doesn't come up with something, but I'm confident.

I bow to your genius Dark Cloud. I was anointed by someone as a disciple of Dark Cloud about three weeks ago because I dared be objective. I'm kind of proud of that now. Everytime I raise a thread that may be negative (but right) the Kool Aid drinkers pound me. Right after the All-Star game I started a thread about the Sox being a first half team every year. Of course the thread went nowhere, I said the team lacked Killer Instinct, that thread got locked down. I love this team, but I'm not an unobjective Kool Aid drinker. That seems to be too Cub-like to me. Now excuse me while I jump off a ledge regardless.

Glad that you get satisfaction of the recent struggles of the White Sox :rolleyes:

RallyBowl
09-15-2005, 06:24 PM
Well it's nothing new for the Sox to choke. Maybe this season they decided to postpone it a month.
We may have another group of guys who can't deliver when they really need to. That's basically been the Sox history the past 5 years.

If by chance the Sox do choke, they might as well move out of town, or get A-Rod because I can the see the attendance being the lowest in baseball.

Yes, Cleveland is doing great but the Sox aren't even playing mediocre baseball. I'm having late 70's flashbacks just watching this team.

Let's hope we don't witness baseball history-the crash of 2005.

:DJ "UH OH."


The "A" word and the "C" word? Hope you enjoyed your stay.

seanpmurphy
09-15-2005, 06:27 PM
Take this for what it's worth. Losing 2 of 3 to the worst team in baseball? Makes me reconsider all those people who told me the Sox would run out of steam. Uncalled for is pretty much the only word that sums up this last series. There's no excuse. None.

Lip Man 1
09-15-2005, 06:29 PM
Well Hotel if the Sox don't wake up out of this they'll look back and see the following losses in the second half, all to teams that are under .500 as of today as the reason:

Tigers-2
ROYALS-5!!!
Blue Jays-2
Mariners-2
Rangers-3

That's 14 losses to garbage teams, completely, absolutely unacceptable. What is this 2003 again?

The only comment about your point about the pitching staff being tired is that many of these losses were in July and August. I'd assume well before the staff got tired.

No excuse for this play on the field...none.

If you are going to lose at least keep your head in the game and not in your rear end. The number of baserunning blunders, times picked off and caught stealing has been astronomical of late.

Lip

Brewski
09-15-2005, 06:29 PM
This season means too much to too many people. It's only a game. It's not a terrorist attack. It's not WW III. Put it in perspective. They're going to come out of it, and if they don't life is still a beautiful thing. Cub fans manage to endure this over and over and still live successful lives. It might make us better, more humble people.

Even the Choke of "69 was avenged (after 16 years.) I don't think we'll have to wait that long.

OutcastRadio
09-15-2005, 06:31 PM
Losing the division is possible...not making the playoffs is not probable but possible.


It should be noted that there is only a one-game difference between the division and missing out on the wild card.

Lip Man 1
09-15-2005, 06:33 PM
Brewski:

I am not a Cub fan. The White Sox are the 3rd most important thing in my life behind my wife and my son. They are ahead of my pets, my jobs, financial security and anything else that you care to name.

I've suffered with these fools for 45 years (what does that make me?) I deserve to see a World Series appearance before I drop dead. And so do the millions of other good Sox fans who have put up with garbage, bad luck, worse owners and bizarre circumstances for decades.

I appreciate what you are trying to say but that is zero consolation for me at this point in time.

Lip

NDSox12
09-15-2005, 06:35 PM
This season means too much to too many people. It's only a game. It's not a terrorist attack. It's not WW III. Put it in perspective. They're going to come out of it, and if they don't life is still a beautiful thing. Cub fans manage to endure this over and over and still live successful lives. It might make us better, more humble people.

Even the Choke of "69 was avenged (after 16 years.) I don't think we'll have to wait that long.

I'm not a big fan of "keep it in perspective" posts. Yes, we all know there are more important things in life than baseball. That doesn't mean we can't get emotional about something that is very important to all of us, White Sox baseball.

I'm not going to lose my cool yet, but I don't like where things seem to be headed.

Pasqua's Posers
09-15-2005, 06:35 PM
This season means too much to too many people. It's only a game. It's not a terrorist attack. It's not WW III. Put it in perspective. They're going to come out of it, and if they don't life is still a beautiful thing. Cub fans manage to endure this over and over and still live successful lives. It might make us better, more humble people.

Even the Choke of "69 was avenged (after 16 years.) I don't think we'll have to wait that long.
who the hell are you dude?

Cowhead418
09-15-2005, 06:37 PM
This season means too much to too many people. It's only a game. It's not a terrorist attack. It's not WW III. Put it in perspective. They're going to come out of it, and if they don't life is still a beautiful thing. Cub fans manage to endure this over and over and still live successful lives. It might make us better, more humble people.

Even the Choke of "69 was avenged (after 16 years.) I don't think we'll have to wait that long.
About that choke of '69. I don't understand why the Cubune and Cub fans love to remember that team. If the Sox blow this lead and miss the playoffs I will spend the rest of my life trying to forget this year's team. Why would you want to remember a team that choked away a huge lead? Just another reason why I'll never understand Flub fans.

MeteorsSox4367
09-15-2005, 06:38 PM
After investing so much time into this season watching the Sox, it would absolutely break my heart if they don't make the playoffs. Making it worse is the fact that one of my co-workers is a huge Cubs fan who thinks all Sox fans are clones of William Ligue. All he talks about is how the Sox are gonna choke.

I love my job and murder is illegal, but I'd still like to beat him over the head with one of my Sox Bat Day souvenirs I saved from my childhood.

All I know is next Wednesday against Cleveland, I'll be out there at the Cell with my scorecard in one hand and rosary beads in the other.

When does hockey season start?

Go Sox! (Please!)

ode to veeck
09-15-2005, 06:49 PM
About that choke of '69. I don't understand why the Cubune and Cub fans love to remember that team. If the Sox blow this lead and miss the playoffs I will spend the rest of my life trying to forget this year's team. Why would you want to remember a team that choked away a huge lead? Just another reason why I'll never understand Flub fans.


That's easy to exlpain, once you understand how utterly terrible the Flubs franchise had been throoughout the 50s and 60s. If not for the Mets horrible start as a new franchise in the early 60s, they would easily be absolutely the worst franchise in baseball, as it was they were darn close. In comparison, '69 even though they choked in Sept, was the highlight of > 20 years of Flubs futility and really stinking it up.

Lip Man 1
09-15-2005, 07:20 PM
Was it really only eight days ago (or so) the Sox had a nice big, fat, 9 1/2 game friggin' lead? I remember saying...'finally.....even they couldn't screw it up now.....'

SOB, they'd screw up a two car funeral.

Lip

delben91
09-15-2005, 07:35 PM
Massive Edit:

So I came home from an extended happy hour. Admittedly "buzzed" and saw the Sox lost.

I promptly lost all concept of reality and posted as I did.

I've sobered up a touch, and realize my utter ridiculousness. Sincere apologies to all.

The Dolphins still suck though :tongue:

kitekrazy
09-15-2005, 07:40 PM
They're going to come out of it, and if they don't life is still a beautiful thing. Cub fans manage to endure this over and over and still live successful lives. It might make us better, more humble people.

Even the Choke of "69 was avenged (after 16 years.) I don't think we'll have to wait that long.

A fine tribute out of a page from the "Pussification of America". How much more humble can Sox and Cub fans get? They haven't won a World Series since..................

You post is actually hilarious. If the Sox choke how would the masculine world respond if these same words came out of Ozzie's mouth.

kitekrazy
09-15-2005, 07:43 PM
who the hell are you dude?

Do you think a "dude" could actually come up with something like that?

kitekrazy
09-15-2005, 07:46 PM
Between the Sox, Dolphins, and 'Hawks, I might as well not even watch sports ever again, because none of my teams will ever amount to anything.......

Hey they got rid of Wanny. That's should make you rejoice.

delben91
09-15-2005, 07:48 PM
Hey they got rid of Wanny. That's should make you rejoice.

They won last week, and now they're done until November.

3-13...book it...at least I know they'll suck.

It's so much easier when the team doesn't give you false hope....

Cutter
09-15-2005, 08:10 PM
And I wonder
Still I Wonder
Who'll Stop the Rain?

kaufsox
09-15-2005, 08:35 PM
.

It's so much easier when the team doesn't give you false hope....

Amen to that. Browns fan here. A 4.5 game lead and it seems like the Sox are behind

Frankfan4life
09-15-2005, 08:47 PM
Ban me, whatever, but I give up.

I can't watch anymore. This time next week, the Indians will be in first place and it'll be the late 90's all over again.

Between the Sox, Dolphins, and 'Hawks, I might as well not even watch sports ever again, because none of my teams will ever amount to anything.......Wow, you're in worse shape than me. I hope this helps... Sing it with me now!

Gray skies are gonna clear up,
Put on a happy face;
Brush off the clouds and cheer up,
Put on a happy face.
Take off the gloomy mask of tragedy,
It's not your style;
You'll look so good that you'll be glad
Ya' decide to smile!
Pick out a pleasant outlook,
Stick out that noble chin;
Wipe off that "full of doubt" look,
Slap on a happy grin!
And spread sunshine all over the place,
Just put on a happy face!
And if you're feeling cross and bitterish
Don't sit and whine
Think of banana split and licorice
And you'll feel fine
So spread sunshine all over the place
Just put on a happy face

akingamongstmen
09-15-2005, 09:15 PM
I work with nothing but Indians fans now that I've moved to Ohio. Please, for the love of God, start winning and stop making my daily grind so painful.

OzzieBall2004
09-15-2005, 09:26 PM
Wow, you're in worse shape than me. I hope this helps... Sing it with me now!

Gray skies are gonna clear up,
Put on a happy face;
Brush off the clouds and cheer up,
Put on a happy face.
Take off the gloomy mask of tragedy,
It's not your style;
You'll look so good that you'll be glad
Ya' decide to smile!
Pick out a pleasant outlook,
Stick out that noble chin;
Wipe off that "full of doubt" look,
Slap on a happy grin!
And spread sunshine all over the place,
Just put on a happy face!
And if you're feeling cross and bitterish
Don't sit and whine
Think of banana split and licorice
And you'll feel fine
So spread sunshine all over the place
Just put on a happy face

Thats funny, because I just decided my current mood falls somewhere between dark clouds and blue skies.

kitekrazy
09-15-2005, 10:04 PM
They won last week, and now they're done until November.

3-13...book it...at least I know they'll suck.

It's so much easier when the team doesn't give you false hope....

Life long Colts fan. I usually dump my interest in the Sox after August because the Colts always bring some hope.
I'm ticked at the Sox right now, but here it is mid Sept. and our interest is in White Sox baseball. The past 2 seasons most of these threads would've been posted in mid August.

mike squires
09-15-2005, 10:18 PM
I'm glad I have DH softball game in 2 hours. It gives me something to do so I can forget about these A-Holes. 2005 White Sox will always be remembered as the biggest chokers ever. Yes, they are going to blow it.

Dub, I'm glad you are still around after that one...:wink:

Lip Man 1
09-15-2005, 10:33 PM
Frank:

If I remember correctly the Flanders family sang that in their car where they were living after they lost everything in the world in one of The Simpsons episodes. It took a miracle from Homer of all people to save them.

Are you saying we need a miracle courtesy of Homer to right the ship? :D:

Lip

Frankfan4life
09-15-2005, 10:54 PM
Frank:

If I remember correctly the Flanders family sang that in their car where they were living after they lost everything in the world in one of The Simpsons episodes. It took a miracle from Homer of all people to save them.

Are you saying we need a miracle courtesy of Homer to right the ship? :D:

Lip
If you mean "Homer" as in home run, then yes. Right now, I'll take help from anyone who can get this team on the winning track again.

The song is actually from the sound track of Bye Bye Birdie! Dick Van Dyke sings it to a to cheer up a sad "fan" of Conrad Birdie. So, the song does seem rather appropriate right now.

crector
09-16-2005, 08:36 AM
Wow.

That's all I can say, just wow.

These guys are so tight right now you couldn't pull a needle out of their collective rear ends with a tractor.

And it shows in their swings, in their goofy base running blunders and in their body language.

Wow.

Lip

So, Captain Negative strikes again. Its going to be nice this October with the Sox in the playoffs and you temporarily banned due to being a dark cloud...........

Lip Man 1
09-16-2005, 01:02 PM
Hey Crector's back!

Where have you been the past six months or so? I missed your insisive comments.

Lip

santo=dorf
09-16-2005, 01:13 PM
Hey Crector's back!

Where have you been the past six months or so? I missed your insisive comments.

Lip

He's probably only posting because Buehrle has been going through a rough stretch as of late.

Jamieboy
09-17-2005, 05:37 PM
:troll
"Okay, I admit it. I'm the one who is pathetic."