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View Full Version : 18 down, 18 to go


biznuts81
09-15-2005, 12:07 PM
Over the last 18 games:

The Sox are 9-9 (playing their worst baseball of the year:angry: )

The Indians are 13-5 (playing their best baseball of the year:angry: )

This means that the Indians have made up 4 games in the standings over the last 18 games with both teams playing to opposite extreams.

The Sox have 18 games left, Indians have 16....
Even though Clevelands schedule is easier then the Sox, they can't get much hotter then they are right now. So I still think the Sox will win the division:D:
But I am scared of how they are playing heading into the playoffs!! Ozzie needs to light a fire under them!

kevingrt
09-15-2005, 12:13 PM
Thanks for the optimism, we all need it. Newbies cna be good for some things.

Paulwny
09-15-2005, 12:27 PM
Keep in mind that when the sox play the tribe each game has a 2 game swing in the games behind standing.
This makes a head to head series that much more important.

Fenway
09-15-2005, 01:02 PM
Gammons on WEEI said
"Today is the most important game the White Sox have played in 2005. They HAVE to win to erase the taste of last night heading to Minnesota. The Twins and their fans should be up for this weekend to try and salvage something from their sorry season while the Indians play KC."

He also said "It is not a happy clubhouse and Ozzie is having problems with the factions."

He then again said, " A loss today in Kansas City could start a complete freefall that they may not recover from."

What an amazing end to the entire American League as with a little over 2 weeks to go, nothing set in stone.

Paulwny
09-15-2005, 01:19 PM
[QUOTE=fenway]Gammons on WEEI said

He also said "It is not a happy clubhouse and Ozzie is having problems with the factions."
QUOTE]

If this is correct, this is a very bad situation.

wassagstdu
09-15-2005, 01:27 PM
Whatever happens from this point on will not change my conclusions from this season, which are: (a) The first half vindicated Ozzie's strategy for building a winning team, focus on pitching, defense, and playing smart ball. But (b) the second half showed that this team is not quite what Ozzie needs to execute Ozzieball. One aggressive baserunner can have a huge impact (first half) but one is not enough (second half). This is clearly a "transitional" team, not a finished product. Incidentally, the old saying that "speed doesn't slump" is clearly not true.

Win or lose, I look forward to continuing to watch the organization build the team that is needed to play like the first half in both halves. That doesn't only mean adding players. Young players can grow (though a certain third baseman has shown that some can't). Carlos Lee was a new player every year as he grew tremendously, and maybe we are seeing the same thing now from Uribe. And of course we saw it at the beginning of the year from Garland and last year from Rowand.

I think what we all want is a team with a strong chance of winning every year, not one that wins once and disappears. Win or lose this year, the Sox are clearly on the right path, as it looks to me. At least they know what they need. Given that building that team will be done bottom-up, not by adding key free agents, for the most part, the big question is, is the minor league system and the scouting up to it? We were tremendously lucky with Iguchi and KW's trades were inspired, but in the long run everything will depend on what the minor league system produces.

maurice
09-15-2005, 01:30 PM
Thankfully, Gammons is wrong about everything.

Fenway
09-15-2005, 01:31 PM
I think a big question is can Ozzieball work at USCF?

Look everything changed when Frank went down for the count this year, early on they played well but expected him back. You can trace the teams slump to the day it was announced he was gone for the season.

Too many fly balls that are outs elsewhere are homers now at USCF. That is hurt the White Sox bigtime and may also explain the teams record on the road.

But yes I agree, they are going in the right direction.


Whatever happens from this point on will not change my conclusions from this season, which are: (a) The first half vindicated Ozzie's strategy for building a winning team, focus on pitching, defense, and playing smart ball. But (b) the second half showed that this team is not quite what Ozzie needs to execute Ozzieball. One aggressive baserunner can have a huge impact (first half) but one is not enough (second half). This is clearly a "transitional" team, not a finished product. Incidentally, the old saying that "speed doesn't slump" is clearly not true.

Win or lose, I look forward to continuing to watch the organization build the team that is needed to play like the first half in both halves. That doesn't only mean adding players. Young players can grow (though a certain third baseman has shown that some can't). Carlos Lee was a new player every year as he grew tremendously, and maybe we are seeing the same thing now from Uribe. And of course we saw it at the beginning of the year from Garland and last year from Rowand.

I think what we all want is a team with a strong chance of winning every year, not one that wins once and disappears. Win or lose this year, the Sox are clearly on the right path, as it looks to me. At least they know what they need. Given that building that team will be done bottom-up, not by adding key free agents, for the most part, the big question is, is the minor league system and the scouting up to it? We were tremendously lucky with Iguchi and KW's trades were inspired, but in the long run everything will depend on what the minor league system produces.

Ol' No. 2
09-15-2005, 02:57 PM
[QUOTE=fenway]Gammons on WEEI said

He also said "It is not a happy clubhouse and Ozzie is having problems with the factions."
QUOTE]

If this is correct, this is a very bad situation.Gammons couldn't FIND the clubhouse with a map.

Fenway
09-15-2005, 05:43 PM
[QUOTE=Paulwny]Gammons couldn't FIND the clubhouse with a map.

Maybe so but he at a complete loss on the White Sox right now.

But he offered one bit of insight

He watched last nights Cleveland/Oakland game and said you could see the intensity with every pitch and last weekend he saw it with Anaheim but not with the White Sox.

Maybe Minneapolis is the best place for them right now. If the Twins can't wake them up nobody can. The White Sox need two there and hope the Royals can surprise Cleveland.





Gammons on WEEI said
"Today is the most important game the White Sox have played in 2005. They HAVE to win to erase the taste of last night heading to Minnesota. The Twins and their fans should be up for this weekend to try and salvage something from their sorry season while the Indians play KC."

He also said "It is not a happy clubhouse and Ozzie is having problems with the factions."

He then again said, " A loss today in Kansas City could start a complete freefall that they may not recover from."

Huisj
09-15-2005, 06:03 PM
Keep in mind that when the sox play the tribe each game has a 2 game swing in the games behind standing.
This makes a head to head series that much more important.

I'm not sure I agree with that.

Say the Sox record is 2-0 and Cleveland's is 1-1. That means that the Sox are 1 game up on Cleveland. If Cleveland then beats the Sox, it makes both teams 2-1, which means Cleveland made up 1 game to make them 0 games out. That's not a 2 game swing.

In a 3 game series, one team can either gain 3 games on the other team (by sweeping) or can gain 1 game on the other team (by winning 2 out of 3).

So if the Sox lost 2 out of 3 in both series against Cleveland, Cleveland makes up only 2 games total.

Just throwing out some stuff for discussion I guess.

Paulwny
09-15-2005, 06:12 PM
I'm not sure I agree with that.

Say the Sox record is 2-0 and Cleveland's is 1-1. That means that the Sox are 1 game up on Cleveland. If Cleveland then beats the Sox, it makes both teams 2-1, which means Cleveland made up 1 game to make them 0 games out. That's not a 2 game swing.

In a 3 game series, one team can either gain 3 games on the other team (by sweeping) or can gain 1 game on the other team (by winning 2 out of 3).

So if the Sox lost 2 out of 3 in both series against Cleveland, Cleveland makes up only 2 games total.

Just throwing out some stuff for discussion I guess.

A 2 game swing, you have a 3 game lead in the standings,( when you are playing the team directly behind you), after the game your lead is either 2 or 4 games.

Frater Perdurabo
09-15-2005, 06:14 PM
A 2 game swing, you have a 3 game lead in the standings,( when you are playing the team directly behind you), after the game your lead is either 2 or 4 games.

More important is the magic number. If the Sox win a game, the magic number decreases by one. If the Indians lose, the magic number decreases by one. If the Sox beat the Indians, the magic number decreases by two.

forrestg
09-15-2005, 06:18 PM
Kansas City is on a two game winning streak going in to Cleveland maybe they can win 3 at Jacobs field and win four more when Cleveland visits them later that"s 7 games then if some one else helps us by beating Cleveland that is less games we have to win. We are conserving wins until the playoffs.. When we get to the playoffs we will need to win again.:bandance:

deck27
09-15-2005, 06:19 PM
But yes I agree, they are going in the right direction.

You have got to be kidding me! There are two pitchers on the staff that can throw the ball without getting creamed, and one isn't even starting because Ozzie is afraid of hurting feelings. Do you think it's a coincidence that Garland, Buerhle, El Duque and Garcia are all dead? I guess so.

If they lose the division after a 15 game lead, this organization and the fan base will melt down.

Huisj
09-15-2005, 07:03 PM
A 2 game swing, you have a 3 game lead in the standings,( when you are playing the team directly behind you), after the game your lead is either 2 or 4 games.

Ok I see, I was reading it differently, but I getcha now.