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View Full Version : Replacing Marte on the playoff roster


Jjav829
09-14-2005, 03:04 PM
I'm sure McCarthy will probably make the playoff to replace Marte, but there's a very good argument to be made that he shouldn't. Marte was going to be on the roster because he's a lefty and is supposed to be able to get lefties out. With him gone, it would seem that McCarthy will replace him. But is it really worth it?

If you put McCarthy on the roster, what is his role? The 4 starters will be Buehrle, Garland, Garcia and Contreras (in whatever order). Ideally you would like to get at least 6-7 innings out of each of them and turn it over to the pen. At that point Jenks, Cotts, Politte and Hermanson can try to finish it out. When you look at the Sox pen, each reliever can face hitters from each side of the plate. We have no specialists in this pen, meaning Ozzie probably won't be mixing and matching relievers very much. You always want your best relievers pitching as much as possible in the playoffs and with the extra off days, you can do that. So McCarthy won't be pitching ahead of any of those four relievers. If a pitcher leaves the game early or for some reason can't make the start, El Duque would likely be first in line to fill that long-reliever/spot-starter role. So how much is McCarthy really going to contribute in the playoffs? Maybe 1 or 2 innings total?

IMO, an extra hitter on the bench might help even more. We might be better off putting someone like Willie on the bench to pinch run for one of our slow guys in a key late-inning situation, or someone like Gload to add another left-handed bat. I think either of those two could potentially make more of an impact on a game than McCarthy. It's not a question of whether McCarthy is ready to pitch in the playoffs right now; It's more a question of whether he would really have a big enough role in the playoffs to make it worth putting him on the roster.

shaunburnette
09-14-2005, 03:10 PM
I agree with everything you are saying but have a question in mind. Does your playoff roster (if they make it) include Vizcaino? IMO, Bmac would be more valuable that Vizcaino because he can come in for longer relief (extra innings?) or pitch an inning or two.

If Brandon continues to shine through September, I would rather see him out there than Vizcaino.

miker
09-14-2005, 03:11 PM
What would be nice is an effective lefty out of the bullpen...but that's not an option, is it? :mad:

Jjav829
09-14-2005, 03:18 PM
I agree with everything you are saying but have a question in mind. Does your playoff roster (if they make it) include Vizcaino? IMO, Bmac would be more valuable that Vizcaino because he can come in for longer relief (extra innings?) or pitch an inning or two.

If Brandon continues to shine through September, I would rather see him out there than Vizcaino.

Yes, it does. In fact, I typed this with the idea that there are two open roster spots to be filled. As of now, I'm guessing that the playoff roster would be:

Pitchers (10): Buehrle, Garland, Garcia, Contreras, Hernandez, Hermanson, Politte, Jenks, Cotts, Vizcaino.
Hitters (13): Pierzynski, Widger, Konerko, Iguchi, Uribe, Crede, Blum, Ozuna, Podsednik, Rowand, Dye, Perez, Everett.

That leaves two spots to be filled. I think Vizcaino will make the roster. Vizcaino was horrible in the first two months but since then he has pitched much better. In June, July, August and September, Vizcaino has posted ERAs of: 2.25, 1.20, 3.48, 0.00 respectively. I wouldn't be opposed to replacing Vizcaino with McCarthy, but I made this post assuming that Vizcaino would be on the roster.

SoxinAZ
09-14-2005, 03:23 PM
You have to put BMac on the roster the way he's been throwing lately. God forbid one of our starters takes a line drive off the leg or arm in the first couple of innings, but you have to have a long inning guy to fill in. El Duque just wouldn't cut it.

Ol' No. 2
09-14-2005, 03:27 PM
Yes, it does. In fact, I typed this with the idea that there are two open roster spots to be filled. As of now, I'm guessing that the playoff roster would be:

Pitchers (10): Buehrle, Garland, Garcia, Contreras, Hernandez, Hermanson, Politte, Jenks, Cotts, Vizcaino.
Hitters (13): Pierzynski, Widger, Konerko, Iguchi, Uribe, Crede, Blum, Ozuna, Podsednik, Rowand, Dye, Perez, Everett.

That leaves two spots to be filled. I think Vizcaino will make the roster. Vizcaino was horrible in the first two months but since then he has pitched much better. In June, July, August and September, Vizcaino has posted ERAs of: 2.25, 1.20, 3.48, 0.00 respectively. I wouldn't be opposed to replacing Vizcaino with McCarthy, but I made this post assuming that Vizcaino would be on the roster.Don't most teams carry 11 pitchers on playoff rosters? You tend to pull starters a little quicker if they start to struggle (unless you're Dusty Baker).

MsSoxVixen22
09-14-2005, 03:55 PM
Good arguments by everyone. BMac needs to be on the roster though. Viz HAS been doing better as of late. So maybe they could alternate who plays b/w the 2 of them. I would hate to not see Bmac in the playoffs-he's be awesome lately. We're goona need him I think cos El Duque might be put in the bullpen. Bottom line, out of all our pitchers I'm worried about El Duque and Hermy (hope his back holds up) I hope Ozzie/KW will find a way to keep BMac up here for the playoffs

Jjav829
09-14-2005, 04:02 PM
Don't most teams carry 11 pitchers on playoff rosters? You tend to pull starters a little quicker if they start to struggle (unless you're Dusty Baker).

It doesn't matter what most teams do. Most teams carry two lefties in the pen. What matters is what fits our team. The question is whether McCarthy is going to get enough action to carry him. And if, as a previous poster suggested, El Duque isn't going to be the long man, then just insert his name in place of McCarthy. The question isn't so much whether McCarthy deserves a spot, but if we really need to carry that 11th pitcher instead of another hitter. That's basically what I'm asking.

There's no right or wrong reply that I'm looking for here. I'm just trying to see how people here feel about carrying 11 pitchers.

Ol' No. 2
09-14-2005, 04:11 PM
It doesn't matter what most teams do. Most teams carry two lefties in the pen. What matters is what fits our team. The question is whether McCarthy is going to get enough action to carry him. And if, as a previous poster suggested, El Duque isn't going to be the long man, then just insert his name in place of McCarthy. The question isn't so much whether McCarthy deserves a spot, but if we really need to carry that 11th pitcher instead of another hitter. That's basically what I'm asking.

There's no right or wrong reply that I'm looking for here. I'm just trying to see how people here feel about carrying 11 pitchers.Tough call. There are pluses and minuses either way.

I'd have to say that their strength is pitching, so go with your strength and keep the extra pitcher.

Baby Fisk
09-14-2005, 04:12 PM
There's no right or wrong reply that I'm looking for here. I'm just trying to see how people here feel about carrying 11 pitchers.
Even tho I think El Duque will revert to playoff form and become indestructable on the mound, you can never have enough arms in the pen if someone gets in trouble.

(I also take this opportunity to predict that Willie will be on the roster and score the championship-winning run, then dedicate the win to his #1 fan Bafiarocks!!!!!!!!!) :cool:

Frater Perdurabo
09-14-2005, 04:16 PM
I think McCarthy could play a very important role during the playoffs if one of the other starters has a really bad outing. Contreras, Buehrle, Garland and Garcia all have shown they almost always go 6-7 quality innings. But each one of them have had a small number (perhaps only one or two) of really bad starts this year. If one of them gives up six runs in two and two-thirds of an inning, wouldn't it be better to throw McCarthy in there for three, four or five innings to give the Sox offense a fighting chance to come back, and then save the pen to close out the seventh, eighth and ninth innings?

McCarthy has shut down three powerful offenses during the last two weeks (two of which are headed for the playoffs). The Sox need him as much as he's earned the right to be on the playoff roster. McCarthy is a luxury who could prove to be a dynamite necessity and might be the difference in one game, which might be the difference in a playoff series.

Jjav829
09-14-2005, 04:21 PM
I think McCarthy could play a very important role during the playoffs if one of the other starters has a really bad outing. Contreras, Buehrle, Garland and Garcia all have shown they almost always go 6-7 quality innings. But each one of them have had a small number (perhaps only one or two) of really bad starts this year. If one of them gives up six runs in two and two-thirds of an inning, wouldn't it be better to throw McCarthy in there for three, four or five innings to give the Sox offense a fighting chance to come back, and then save the pen to close out the seventh, eighth and ninth innings?

McCarthy has shut down three powerful offenses during the last two weeks (two of which are headed for the playoffs). The Sox need him as much as he's earned the right to be on the playoff roster. McCarthy is a luxury who could prove to be a dynamite necessity and might be the difference in one game, which might be the difference in a playoff series.

That's fine. Then what happens with El Duque. Like I said, this thread wasn't meant to be just about McCarthy. So if you think McCarthy should take that role of the long-man in the pen - the role El Duque looked like he would fill - then do you still keep El Duque around?

TaylorStSox
09-14-2005, 04:40 PM
I have some reservations about pitching a 22 year old kid who's 1 year removed from A ball in the playoffs.

longshot7
09-14-2005, 04:49 PM
I agree with Frater and Jjav. Put McCarthy on the roster to replace El Duque in case of a diastrous start. Use the two remaining spots for Willie (Chone Figgins' speed on the 2002 Angels was a great asset, as was Dave Roberts on 2004's Red Sox) and ?????

Now that I think about it, Ozzie probably wouldn't use Gload or Anderson - he'd go with Timo or Pablo first, so use the last spot for a pitcher like Bajenaru.

Ol' No. 2
09-14-2005, 04:51 PM
That's fine. Then what happens with El Duque. Like I said, this thread wasn't meant to be just about McCarthy. So if you think McCarthy should take that role of the long-man in the pen - the role El Duque looked like he would fill - then do you still keep El Duque around?It's not hard to envision situations where you might be glad you had them both. You might use one in long relief one day and be faced with a long extra-inning game the next. That bullpen depth would sure come in handy there. And it's not hard to envision a situation where you'd like the extra hitter.

I think it comes down to philosophy. Do you try to keep the opposition off the board in hopes that you can scratch across enough runs to win or do you sacrifice some pitching depth in order to increase your odds of scoring? You can make good arguments either way. But this team was built on pitching strength, and I think you go with what got you there. I believe in going with your strength.

longshot7
09-14-2005, 04:52 PM
That's fine. Then what happens with El Duque. Like I said, this thread wasn't meant to be just about McCarthy. So if you think McCarthy should take that role of the long-man in the pen - the role El Duque looked like he would fill - then do you still keep El Duque around?

No no. Duque sits.

MarySwiss
09-14-2005, 05:39 PM
Pardon me once again for being a "delusional" fan, but ain't it sweet to have to worry about which one of your pitchers is the crappiest?

I think JJav829's probable roster was pretty much right on:

Pitchers (10): Buehrle, Garland, Garcia, Contreras, Hernandez, Hermanson, Politte, Jenks, Cotts, Vizcaino.
Hitters (13): Pierzynski, Widger, Konerko, Iguchi, Uribe, Crede, Blum, Ozuna, Podsednik, Rowand, Dye, Perez, Everett.

Personally, I'd lose Vizcaino and add McCarthy, Gload, and Harris.

enurb
09-14-2005, 05:50 PM
I'm sure McCarthy will probably make the playoff to replace Marte, but there's a very good argument to be made that he shouldn't. Marte was going to be on the roster because he's a lefty and is supposed to be able to get lefties out. With him gone, it would seem that McCarthy will replace him. But is it really worth it?


It's worth it.

How often do we pinch-hit? Gload isn't an upgrade over any of our regulars even against a righty. The difference between having Gload pinch hit versus Perez is marginal at best. In fact, Perez has been semi-clutch this year so I'd almost rather see him hit.

With respect to a pinch-runner, we're covered with Pablo. The speed difference between Pablo and Harris is real, but not at the cost of McCarthy on the roster.

In addition to the fact that Gload and/or Harris bring marginal value, McCarthy should be there for the following reasons: (1) an insurance policy in the event a starter blows up early -- he's superior to El Duque in that role, hands down; (2) an insurance policy if Jenks loses his release point and his control -- Jenks is unproven and it would be nice to have some insurance; (3) he's showing himself to be a strikeout pitcher -- we have precious few of those -- it would be nice to have him come in and sit someone like A-Rod, Sheff, Guerrero, etc. in a pinch; and (4) he's the future of this staff, has contributed to our success more than career minor leaguers Gload and/or Harris have (see clutch Red Sox win, see dominant Spring Training where he set the tone for the season), and he deserves to taste the spoils.

FielderJones
09-14-2005, 05:56 PM
How often do we pinch-hit?

When we play in the National League ballpark during the World Series we will pinch hit more often than normal.

enurb
09-14-2005, 06:12 PM
When we play in the National League ballpark during the World Series we will pinch hit more often than normal.

I agree.

But, we'll have Everett to pinch-hit in those games. Also, I think the playoff rosters can switch from the ALDS to the ALCS to the World Series. Not sure though.