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Whitesox05
09-14-2005, 10:43 AM
I am a huge fan of the whitesox and am extremely happy about their success. I am looking forward to watching them in the playoffs, even though I don't think they have enough hitting to go anywhere.

I have recently gotten angry at Ozzie on the Marte situation. Oh wow....he was late! It happens! Deal with it and get over it! By not having him on the playoff roster does not make our team better....only worse. When he is on, he is a premeire left handed set man in the man. Ozzie needs to stop being so damn stubborn and understand Damaso made another mistake but we still need him in the playoffs. He gets the big hitters out when he is throwing strikes. With him gone, that bring up a huge question mark....Can Cotts step up into his role and get the big boys out in the big game? I would like to say yes, but you never know. So basically our World Series potential is hanging on to Cotts and can he step up into Martes role. It's a little late in the season to be experimenting here.

Ozzie, bite your ego for once and do the best thing for this team and let Marte pitch in the playoffs. I can't believe that you want to get rid of him after the season now too. You watch....many teams will want him. By us getting rid of him only makes the other teams stronger. I wouldn't be surprised is NY or Boston gets him and he comes back to shut us down with our crappy hitting. When Damaso is throwing strikes, he is FILTHY! By being stubborn and not letting Marte play does not make our team any better

Optipessimism
09-14-2005, 10:52 AM
With him gone, that bring up a huge question mark....Can Cotts step up into his role and get the big boys out in the big game? I would like to say yes, but you never know.

The same exact thing could be said about Marte. The main difference though between Cotts and Marte is that when Cotts is off he isn't anywhere near as wild as Marte is.

Damaso, when he is on his game, IMO is one of the best LH relief pitchers in the AL. But he's been on the decline and has had some extremely bad outings this year. Getting rid of him removes an even larger question mark: can he get these two critical outs without walking the bases loaded and giving up the trademark 2-run single that gets charged to the starter who battled for 6-7 innings?

CHIsoxNation
09-14-2005, 10:53 AM
In Ozzie's defense, this entire situation is not only because he was late to the game on Sunday, but also because he has "reportedly" made 2 doctor appointments and not told Kenny or Ozzie. Don't you think Ozzie would want to know if one of his guys are injured before he throws them in the game? I for one side with Ozzie on this issue. These players need to be honest and open with Ozzie, because you know Ozzie is with them.

This isn't the first time Marte has pulled at stunt like this in this season either. I'm sure management is just fed up with Marte's little games, especially when the season is winding down and the playoffs are within reach. Let's face it, Marte isn't near where he was a few years ago. AT TIMES, he can be dominant. But the way he has looked lately, I would not be comfortbale at all putting in Marte in late game situations. He has not shown that he can handle the pressure on a regular basis.

I would at least keep Marte on the roster through the rest of the year and try to trade him in the offseason if management wants to rid of him that much. Until then, Marte should be used minimally if at all. Although, I wouldn't mind at all seeing McCarthy take his spot on the playoff roster.

Ol' No. 2
09-14-2005, 11:09 AM
No player is bigger than the team. If you want to see what happens when the inmates run the asylum, just take a look 8 miles north.

SoxFan76
09-14-2005, 11:12 AM
I hate to pick on new members, as we all were a new member at some point, but doesn't it seem like most of these ridiculous dark cloud threads are started by people who have joined within the last few months? Maybe it's just me...

CHIsoxNation
09-14-2005, 11:27 AM
I hate to pick on new members, as we all were a new member at some point, but doesn't it seem like most of these ridiculous dark cloud threads are started by people who have joined within the last few months? Maybe it's just me...

I agree, not so say I have been here for years. But they definitely have been popping up more the past couple of months.

pdimas
09-14-2005, 12:13 PM
Marte is here to get out lefties. So it doesnt look good when lefties are hitting .272 against him. Granted I understand the whole loyalty thing and he was part of the team that got us where we are. But if he is gonna hurt the team I say leave him off. After all we do have Cotts to take care of lefties (.202 I believe). Plus that leaves an open spot for McCarthy who i'm sure has a special part to play.

Jjav829
09-14-2005, 12:25 PM
No player is bigger than the team. If you want to see what happens when the inmates run the asylum, just take a look 8 miles north.

Agreed. Look at what Sham-ME got away with for years. The Cubs let him do whatever he wanted to do.

FWIW, there is precedent on this from just last year. The Angels suspended Jose Guillen in September for the rest of the season and the playoffs due to his attitude problems. We don't know exactly what happened with Marte, but I'm sure that if Ozzie felt suspending him was the right move, then there must have been more than just one late arrival and the argument that ensued.

miker
09-14-2005, 12:33 PM
Having never been a Major Leauge baseball player (okay, never been Major League anything), I don't get how one could have a bad attitude getting paid to play baseball, much less playing baseball in the middle of a run for the playoffs.

There I go being a "fan" again...

antitwins13
09-14-2005, 01:16 PM
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/sucks13.jpg

Ozzie Guillen manager of the year 2005!

HChappasJr
09-14-2005, 01:36 PM
I'm glad "Dumb-ass-o" isn't on the playoff roster. Ozzie said he's going with the "hot hands" and right now Marte can't get anyone out. They're gonna be in the playoffs, and you have to have confidence in your players and if Ozzie doesn't feel good about Marte right now, then more power to him. Weather Marte's lost his confidence or his fastball or both, leaving him off the roster is addition through subtraction. And I don't care if Cotts is the only lefty in the pen, I'd rather have all righties if they can throw strikes and get people out. That whole thing about lefty/righty matchups is a bit overrated if you ask me. Good left-handed hitters hit good lefty pitchers. I just hope Ozzie doesn't pitch Jenks too much down the stretch because I have a feeling he's gonna be used a lot in the post-season.

DrGiggles
09-14-2005, 01:39 PM
Isn't Marte hurt a little bit, I'm not 100% sure if this is all because he was late. Maybe it had something to do with it, but I thought I heard that Marte was in pain or hurt, I'm not sure.

TaylorStSox
09-14-2005, 01:55 PM
Don't pretend that you know what's going on in that clubhouse.

Over By There
09-14-2005, 02:04 PM
I'd trust Cotts more than Marte in a late-inning, pressure situation right now. Implying that Marte is proven in these situations - "getting big guys out in a big game" - doesn't make much sense when he's done nothing lately but come in to get 1 or 2 guys out, and they're standing on 1st four pitches later.

To make the counter point, addressing a clubhouse problem (if that's the case with Marte) could galvanize the club at a critical time. This could be a really good move on Ozzie's part.

Palehose13
09-14-2005, 02:14 PM
I hate to pick on new members, as we all were a new member at some point, but doesn't it seem like most of these ridiculous dark cloud threads are started by people who have joined within the last few months? Maybe it's just me...

IMO, it's not just you. I also have a theory that disgruntled banned posters are inciting others to come here to be "dark clouds" to see how long it will take to get banned.

Jerko
09-14-2005, 02:22 PM
IMO, it's not just you. I also have a theory that disgruntled banned posters are inciting others to come here to be "dark clouds" to see how long it will take to get banned.

I think you're right. I've seen signs that that's a pretty hot topic lately.

Ol' No. 2
09-14-2005, 02:27 PM
Don't pretend that you know what's going on in that clubhouse.That's exactly right. Marte is not going to get the boot for the rest of the season over showing up late to one game. There's more going on that will be kept behind clubhouse doors.

LuvSox
09-14-2005, 03:02 PM
Marte, and all injured players, see Hermie before every game so they can get therapy and Hermie can give an update to Ozzie. Now, if Marte isn't around to see the doctor, how is Ozzie supposed to know what's going on? Marte knows how the rules are, you're hurt, see Hermie. Period.

Lip Man 1
09-14-2005, 05:30 PM
According to the story in the Southtown (I think) today, Marte called out Ozzie Sunday after Guillen called him on the carpet for being late. Marte supposed started yelling at Ozzie stating among other things, 'no one likes you...'

Lip

Risk
09-14-2005, 05:40 PM
There's more going on that will be kept behind clubhouse doors.

I agree that this has more to do than Marte showing up late. But I think whatever the deal is, it is being handled properly behind the closed doors of the clubhouse rather than being played out in the media where the Chicago sports media whores can cherry-pick quotes and spin bogus stories to stir up more controversies.

Risk

Ol' No. 2
09-14-2005, 05:53 PM
I agree that this has more to do than Marte showing up late. But I think whatever the deal is, it is being handled properly behind the closed doors of the clubhouse rather than being played out in the media where the Chicago sports media whores can cherry-pick quotes and spin bogus stories to stir up more controversies.

RiskNot to mention any names...*cough* Joe Cowley *cough*

Risk
09-14-2005, 06:03 PM
Not to mention any names...*cough* Joe Cowley *cough*

Exactamundo. Also, paging

Moronatti, J.
Couch, G.
Sullivan, P.
Chicago Tribune Sports section

Risk

Vernam
09-14-2005, 08:16 PM
I'd trust Cotts more than Marte in a late-inning, pressure situation right now. Implying that Marte is proven in these situations - "getting big guys out in a big game" - doesn't make much sense when he's done nothing lately but come in to get 1 or 2 guys out, and they're standing on 1st four pitches later.You obviously have a bias against lefty relievers who walk or hit at least one batter per outing.

Speaking of which, I was jazzed last night when Jenks walked Sweeney to lead off the 8th -- not a bad guy to walk in that situation, btw -- and then mowed down the next three guys. There is no substitute for throwing strikes, and Marte is no substitute for a guy (like Cotts or Jenks) who has control.

VC

Sargeant79
09-14-2005, 08:42 PM
I don't know whether he is a negative presence in the clubhouse or not, but I for one am not upset at all to see Marte left off the post-season roster. This way, Ozzie isn't tempted to bring him in in a tight game and give him the chance to blow it. It got to the point the last month or so that my blood pressure would rise every time I saw him warming up. I'll take my chances in the playoffs with almost anyone else in the bullpen before I'd feel comfortable with Marte pitching in a close game.

SOXSINCE'70
09-16-2005, 07:03 PM
[QUOTE=Jjav829] The Angels suspended Jose Guillen in September for the rest of the season and the playoffs due to his attitude problems.[QUOTE]

And Guillen was having a great year for them.Looks like trouble can
strike twice.Just read in the Cub-Une today that Guillen's temper
got the better of him with the "Nasty 'Nats" and they are also
thinking about suspending him and leaving him off the playoff
roster (if the 'Nats get there,that is).

SOXSINCE'70
09-16-2005, 07:05 PM
Exactamundo. Also, paging

Moronatti, J.
Couch, G.
Sullivan, P.
Chicago Tribune Sports section

Risk

Don't forget Telander,R. or Sleaze-hack,C.

buehrle4cy05
09-16-2005, 10:03 PM
[QUOTE=Jjav829] The Angels suspended Jose Guillen in September for the rest of the season and the playoffs due to his attitude problems.[QUOTE]

And Guillen was having a great year for them.Looks like trouble can
strike twice.Just read in the Cub-Une today that Guillen's temper
got the better of him with the "Nasty 'Nats" and they are also
thinking about suspending him and leaving him off the playoff
roster (if the 'Nats get there,that is).

IIRC, Guillen and Mike "It's ok to have pine tar on your glove" Scoscia got into a shouting match after Guillen was removed from a game.