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santo=dorf
09-13-2005, 10:49 PM
:boston on BBTN said that due to the Marlins losing so much money ($20-30 million,) Carlos Delgado will be traded in the offseason. I don't remember the exact contract breakdown, but I'm pretty sure he's only making $4 million this season. I remember this because right after the Marlins signed him, Jayson Stark said the Marlins would trade him after paying him cheaply in 2005.

KW tried to get him back in 2004, how about 2006?

TheOldRoman
09-13-2005, 11:27 PM
I thought he was having an off year, but looking at his stats, he is not:

.301, 30, 105
It would be a gross understatment to say that we could use that production in our lineup.

Huisj
09-13-2005, 11:31 PM
It's sad that the marlins can't even afford to keep the good players that they just have signed. If that organization had any money, they'd be really dangerous with the way they can develop young players.

Banix12
09-13-2005, 11:45 PM
How goes the progress on trying to get a stadium deal in Miami? I have to think the Marlins are moving sometime soon if they keep using this "we can't keep our players" excuse

Jjav829
09-13-2005, 11:56 PM
How goes the progress on trying to get a stadium deal in Miami? I have to think the Marlins are moving sometime soon if they keep using this "we can't keep our players" excuse

It's not so much that they can't keep their own players. Delgado's contract made him very cheap this year. He is only making $4 million. Next year that jumps up to $13.5 million. Both Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis are nearing very big paydays. The Marlins probably won't be able to move Mike Lowell's contract in the offseason. It makes perfect sense that they would trade Delgado. Cabrera will go to 3rd, Lowell can shift to 1st and the Marlins can hope that he comes back to his pre-2005 form. Hermida will start full-time for them in the outfield next year. Alex Gonzalez is a free agent, meaning the Marlins will have to do something at the shortstop position. Given all that, it makes sense to attempt to move Delgado, especially considering that they will probably get 1 or 2 major leaguers in return.

TheOldRoman
09-14-2005, 12:09 AM
Given all that, it makes sense to attempt to move Delgado, especially considering that they will probably get 1 or 2 major leaguers in return.
You knew it was only a matter of time until someone posted it:

Do you think they would take Willie and Borchard?

no, wait, it should be:

Do you think they would take Willie and Borchard?

ChiWhiteSox1337
09-14-2005, 12:18 AM
You knew it was only a matter of time until someone posted it:

Do you think they would take Willie and Borchard?

no, wait, it should be:

Do you think they would take Willie and Borchard?
Or maybe Marte, weren't they interested in him earlier in the year? :D:

Mr. White Sox
09-14-2005, 12:36 AM
Marte, Anderson, and Willie for Delgado.

StillMissOzzie
09-14-2005, 01:05 AM
It's sad that the marlins can't even afford to keep the good players that they just have signed. If that organization had any money, they'd be really dangerous with the way they can develop young players.

Yeah, especially with their two WS titles already. The Sox should be that dangerous.

SMO
:gulp:

MUsoxfan
09-14-2005, 01:06 AM
It's not so much that they can't keep their own players. Delgado's contract made him very cheap this year. He is only making $4 million. Next year that jumps up to $13.5 million.

That really really really amazes me. A $10m jump in one year is astounding

Jerome
09-14-2005, 01:08 AM
Well we can dream can't we. That guy is a big name that actually lives up to the hype. Well, maybe not ALL the insane hype due to his monster year 2 years ago, but the guy is a stud. Would it be too much of a dream to keep him and Konerko? That's as good as a 1-2 punch in baseball, maybe besides the Red Sox.

I don't care who we'd have to give up to get him. Our team is solid all around, and by that i mean there is no one person we are sooo dependant on that he is untouchable. Delgado would certainly be a consolation prize if lord forbid this year is not our year after all. A starting pitcher and an OF prospect. Both teams win. We have the depth to trade one of each, which IMO is a good credit to KW .

Frater Perdurabo
09-14-2005, 08:32 AM
I too would like to see Delgado in a Sox uniform. The question is whether or not the Sox are willing to add salary and if they want a left-handed bopper to replace Paul Konerko, who's likely to get fat contract offers from the Mets, Yankees or Red Sox.

Not to bag on Konerko (because PK truly has carried the Sox offense since mid-July), but Delgado clearly is a superior offensive player (.952 to .837 career OPS) and has the added advantage of being a left-handed hitter. He does have fewer homers this year, but remember that he plays his home games in a very large park. Looking at their splits this year, Delgado has hit 15 homers at home and 15 on the road. Konerko has hit 22 at home and 15 on the road. One would have to think Delgado would replicate Paulie's HR totals at the Cell.

One would think that the large outfield in Florida would inflate Delgado's home double totals. Not so. He's hit 16 at home and 20 on the road. By comparison, Paulie has hit 8 doubles at home and 13 away, but we should expect that at the Cell, where the outfield gaps are not very large.

In terms of OPS, Konerko's totals are helped by playing in the Cell: .956 at home vs. .865 away (for a total 2005 OPS of .905). Delgado's home OPS of .975 actually has slightly dragged down his overall numbers because his road OPS is .986, making his 2005 OPS .981. So, many signs point to Delgado ramping up his production - especially home runs - if he played 81 games per year in the Cell.

Delgado does have an escalating salary over the next three seasons. But if the Sox were willing to invest that kind of money on a left-handed, power-hitting first baseman, there's really none better than Delgado (Mark Teixeira is not available). If the Marlins really want to get out from under his contract, they might take a below-market package of players in return. Perhaps a package could be constructed around Marte, whom the Marlins were rumoured to covet.

Imagine a deeppink lineup of: Pods, Iguchi, Delgado, Frank, Dye, AJ, Rowand, Uribe and Crede!

Flight #24
09-14-2005, 09:20 AM
Delgado does have an escalating salary over the next three seasons. But if the Sox were willing to invest that kind of money on a left-handed, power-hitting first baseman, there's really none better than Delgado (Mark Teixeira is not available). If the Marlins really want to get out from under his contract, they might take a below-market package of players in return. Perhaps a package could be constructed around Marte, whom the Marlins were rumoured to covet.



If Konerko gets offers in the 10mil range, then forget it. If he's getting offers in the 12-14mil range, then it makes a ton more sense to get Delgado (depending of course on what the Marlins are looking for in return).

Marte would probably be a big part of any deal, as would the Sox willingness to take on the entire contract. I'd have to think that you could do a deal without giving up Young/Sweeney/Gio/McCarthy/Anderson. Maybe a young pitcher or 2 of Haigwood/Liotta/Broadway's ilk and Damaso.

As for payroll impact, with minimal roster tinkering, you can fit him into an $85mil budget. Basically, the 17mil you were paying Thomas & Konerko this year becomes 18mil to pay Delgado (13.5) and Thomas (4.5 including the 3.5 buyout) next year. Garland & AJ get raises from $3.5 & $2.5 to $6 & $5 respectively, which is offset by replacing the combined $5mil from Timo/Shingo/Marte with Anderson/McCarthy/Jenks. The roughly $10mil bump in total payroll goes to pay raises to others on the roster.

But we're getting WAY ahead of ourselves, there's this little thing called the playoffs coming up that we should be focusing on rather than restructuring the roster for next year.

daveeym
09-14-2005, 09:22 AM
That really really really amazes me. A $10m jump in one year is astounding Jjav sorta hit on it. It's brilliant on the part of the Marlins, keep signing studs with the contract backloaded so they don't have to pay em that much. Then trade em for QUALITY young, cheap talent and keep stocking your system.

A bad year or injury is the risk, then they're stuck with the contract and floundering, but as with Rodriguez there's always an organization like the Tiggers willing to take the albatross as long as he's got a big name.

DSpivack
09-14-2005, 11:23 AM
Delgado also may not be on the block. Aren't the Marlins still paying for Pudge and Hampton? I believe those come off the books this year.

DaleJRFan
09-14-2005, 11:34 AM
Delgado also may not be on the block. Aren't the Marlins still paying for Pudge and Hampton? I believe those come off the books this year.

:pudge

"I never played for the Marlins."

longshot7
09-14-2005, 12:06 PM
Imagine a deeppink lineup of: Pods, Iguchi, Delgado, Frank, Dye, AJ, Rowand, Uribe and Crede!

Yes, but while we're in deepink mode: Can't we keep Konerko and trade for Delgado?

Pods, Iguchi, Delgado, Konerko, Dye, AJ, Rowand, Crede, Uribe?

depy48
09-14-2005, 12:19 PM
Yes, but while we're in deepink mode: Can't we keep Konerko and trade for Delgado?

Pods, Iguchi, Delgado, Konerko, Dye, AJ, Rowand, Crede, Uribe?

who's going to play first?
didnt delgado sign with the marlins, and turn down the rangers so he could play first?
and i would have to believe that konerko wants to stay as a first baseman too

maurice
09-14-2005, 12:55 PM
Can't we keep Konerko and trade for Delgado?

As I understand it, the previous post was based on the assumption that Delgado / Thomas would be something like $8 mil. cheaper than Delgado / Konerko. I know we're talking in deeppink, but there's no way in hell KW pays 2 1B $12+ mil. each. I'm still not convinced that he'll pay 1 1B $12 mil. / year.

That being said, Delgado at the Cell would be amazing for the reasons already stated. Pairing him with a 100% healthy Frank would form a 3-4 for the ages and jack Sox run production through the roof.

It pains me to say it, but the chances of both of these things happening has be very very small.

Frater Perdurabo
09-14-2005, 01:48 PM
who's going to play first?
didnt delgado sign with the marlins, and turn down the rangers so he could play first?
and i would have to believe that konerko wants to stay as a first baseman too

That is PRECISELY why Delgado didn't sign with the Rangers. Delgado as DH for the Rangers would have made their offense unstoppable (and they already are on pace to break the single season team HR record).

There's no way the Sox could, would or should both re-sign Konerko and trade for Delgado.

Randar68
09-14-2005, 02:22 PM
Alex Gonzalez is a free agent, meaning the Marlins will have to do something at the shortstop position. Given all that, it makes sense to attempt to move Delgado, especially considering that they will probably get 1 or 2 major leaguers in return.

Sign Furcal and send them Uribe and Rowand for Delgado, then sign Bill Mueller and trade Crede for bullpen help or prospects...

Flight #24
09-14-2005, 02:24 PM
Given all that, it makes sense to attempt to move Delgado, especially considering that they will probably get 1 or 2 major leaguers in return.

YOu really think that even though he's great, at $13.5-$16mil over the nextr 3 years that they'll get a couple of young, good major leaguers? I'd think something along the lines of Marte+mid-level prospects would be more like it given that salary. The market for a 1B/DH at a high salary isn't going to be significant, IMO.

DaleJRFan
09-14-2005, 02:29 PM
Sign Furcal and send them Uribe and Rowand for Delgado, then sign Bill Mueller and trade Crede for bullpen help or prospects...

May I suggest....

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0009W7Q3S.01._SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg

Jjav829
09-14-2005, 02:47 PM
YOu really think that even though he's great, at $13.5-$16mil over the nextr 3 years that they'll get a couple of young, good major leaguers? I'd think something along the lines of Marte+mid-level prospects would be more like it given that salary. The market for a 1B/DH at a high salary isn't going to be significant, IMO.

Yes, they can easily get two good major league players (or major league ready prospects) in return. Look at the free agent market this year. It's awful. If the Marlins decided to make Delgado available in a trade, he'd easily be the best player available, unless someone like Dunn is put on the market. In fact, I would go as far as to say that this might just have been Beinfest's original idea all along. In 2003 the Marlins signed Ivan Rodriguez, used him to win the World Series and then let him go. Well, I wouldn't be surprised if Beinfest did the same thing here. Perhaps his idea was to sign Delgado to a backloaded deal, use him for one year to make a run at a championship, and then trade him this offseason knowing that the free agent market is weak and that teams would be looking for trades to acquire top talent. It's just a theory. I might be completely off on this. I know it would be a huge risk given Delgado's age and any chance that he breaks down and loses his trade value, leaving them stuck with a big contract. I'm just saying that I wouldn't put it past Beinfest if he did this on purpose.

Then again, this was based on a Gammons report so who knows what the truth is. The Marlins might not have any plans to trade Delgado. It does make sense, though.

Mr. White Sox
09-14-2005, 02:47 PM
May I suggest....

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0009W7Q3S.01._SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg

You know, if you include Marte along with Rowand and Uribe, they actually might bite.

Optipessimism
09-15-2005, 02:01 AM
You know, if you include Marte along with Rowand and Uribe, they actually might bite.

Can I add to this? Sign Furcal then trade...

Marte (2.25mil) + Rowand (3.25mil) + Podsednik (about 0.5mil?) + El Duque (4.5mil) for Delgado (13.5mil) + Pierre (about 3.5mil?) + about 4 mil cash

We add about 2mil, take the 8-10mil for PK and give it to Furcal, and produce this lineup...

Furcal SS
Iguchi 2B
Delgado 1B
Everett/Thomas DH
Dye RF
Anderson CF
Pierzynski C
Uribe 3B
Pierre LF

Bench: Crede, Ozuna, Gload, Harris, Timo

THEN we bust out the PS2 and change Borchard's attributes so that we can trade him straight up for Aubrey Huff + cash to fill the DH hole when Thomas becomes injured again, sending Carl to the bench as a corner OF/DH sub and PH.

dickallen15
09-15-2005, 04:25 PM
KW traded for Delgado last season, but he rejected the trade. I don't know if his new contract has a no trade clause, but he doesn't want to play here so why bring him here?

TheOldRoman
09-15-2005, 06:38 PM
KW traded for Delgado last season, but he rejected the trade. I don't know if his new contract has a no trade clause, but he doesn't want to play here so why bring him here?
Not completely true. He didnt want to move in the middle of the season unless the team that aquired him could sign him to an extention. No team offered an extention, so he stay in Toronto. He has never said he would or wouldn't come to the Sox.

buehrle4cy05
09-15-2005, 06:53 PM
While we're dreaming, I want a pony, too.

If they got Delgado, it would seriously cripple any efforts to sign any other free agents. They also might end up trading some players up for arbitration to save money.