PDA

View Full Version : Where's Damaso?


DumpJerry
09-13-2005, 05:43 PM
ESPN 1000 just reported that Marte was not on the team plane to KC today. Anyone hear more than that?

sageofthesox
09-13-2005, 05:51 PM
I read that he is in the doghouse for arriving late to the ballpark late after hitting two batters in that relief appearance last week. Sounds like he and Ozzie aren't seeing eye-to-eye.

MsSoxVixen22
09-13-2005, 05:53 PM
I'm sorry, this may sound mean and all but who cares?! I will surely NOT miss Marte. He was good last year but he doesn't have the same stuff this year. We got Jenks, Cliff and the Herminator! :D:

JeffIsTHEMAN
09-13-2005, 05:56 PM
I'm sorry, this may sound mean and all but who cares?! I will surely NOT miss Marte. He was good last year but he doesn't have the same stuff this year. We got Jenks, Cliff and the Herminator! :D:

Yeah but a 3-man bullpen isnt exactly ideal for clinching, much less the playoffs...

Rocky Soprano
09-13-2005, 06:00 PM
Yeah but a 3-man bullpen isnt exactly ideal for clinching, much less the playoffs...

Don't forget we also have Cotts, and McCarthy (as of right now) coming out of the bullpen.

Joosh
09-13-2005, 06:01 PM
Hey, everyone forgot to mention Vizcaino!

Hes performed a lot better during the second half of the year.

kittle42
09-13-2005, 06:03 PM
Just announced on the Score: Marte will be placed on DL and done for the year and postseason.

El Duque will start Saturday with McCarthy coming out of the pen.

Ol' No. 2
09-13-2005, 06:05 PM
Don't forget we also have Cotts, and McCarthy (as of right now) coming out of the bullpen.Every team needs a good lefty specialist. From everything I've read, Marte's problem, aside from some stiffness in his neck, is confidence. He always appeared to me like someone with a pretty fragile psyche. They need to work on him and get him right. With the number of lefties in the Cleveland lineup, I want him effective and ready to go next week and for the playoffs.

ShoelessJoeS
09-13-2005, 06:13 PM
El Duque will start Saturday.
Is anyone else bothered by this?

beckett21
09-13-2005, 06:13 PM
Just announced on the Score: Marte will be placed on DL and done for the year and postseason.


Same thing just reported on ESPN 1000. He will either be suspended or put on the DL for the remainder of the season.

Ol' No. 2
09-13-2005, 06:15 PM
Is anyone else bothered by this?Actually, I want Hernandez to start Saturday and McCarthy to start on Sunday. That lines up Contreras, Garcia and Buehrle to face the Indians next week with an extra day's rest.

Saracen
09-13-2005, 06:15 PM
Good riddance. He's been brutal for 2 years now. Yes, he has the talent. No, I don't ever want to see him on the mound because I know he's going to walk or hit whoever he's facing.

whitesoxfan
09-13-2005, 06:15 PM
Same thing just reported on ESPN 1000. He will either be suspended or put on the DL for the remainder of the season.

you guys are fast :D:

kudos to Kenny/Ozzie to putting their foot down on Damaso and showing that he is not above the team.

zmz723
09-13-2005, 06:17 PM
i say keep him, then trade him in the offseason. He will have some trade value in him. He has decent numbers in a position very thin

Ol' No. 2
09-13-2005, 06:17 PM
you guys are fast :D:

kudos to Kenny/Ozzie to putting their foot down on Damaso and showing that he is not above the team.There's gotta be more to it. They wouldn't suspend him for the season for showing up late once.

beckett21
09-13-2005, 06:17 PM
Good riddance. He's been brutal for 2 years now. Yes, he has the talent. No, I don't ever want to see him on the mound because I know he's going to walk or hit whoever he's facing.

Whatever trade value he had just went in the toilet.

Too bad KW couldn't have shipped him to the Marlins when he had the chance. (Assuming they would have taken him). :whiner:

ja1022
09-13-2005, 06:17 PM
Just announced on the Score: Marte will be placed on DL.

Bruised ego?

whitesoxfan
09-13-2005, 06:19 PM
There's gotta be more to it. They wouldn't suspend him for the season for showing up late once.

i don't think this is the first time. I believe Damaso is a multiple offender on showing up late to the ballpark.

soxwon
09-13-2005, 06:19 PM
Marte has been seen hanging with Ronnie Woo Woo at wrigleyville bars!!!!!

beckett21
09-13-2005, 06:21 PM
There's gotta be more to it. They wouldn't suspend him for the season for showing up late once.

The fact that he couldn't get anyone out anymore is a good enough excuse; throw in a bad attitude and adios muchacho.

I have no idea what went on behind closed doors, but I'll take KW and Ozzie's judgment on this one.

HotelWhiteSox
09-13-2005, 06:22 PM
He gone!

Finally, he can't pitch to left handers, so the LH specialist idea is stupid, and if he can't handle the 'heat' of a situation vs KC than he has no business on a playoff roster. Boy hasn't been right since opening day in KC last year.

What a weird situation/unfolding of events

monkeypants
09-13-2005, 06:22 PM
Even as a lefty specialist he hasn't been doing the job. Left-handed batters have been batting .272 against Marte while right-handed hitters are hitting .225. Until Marte gets his head/neck straightened out our only left-handed option is Cotts. I'm hoping things work out for Marte but these reports don't look promising.

Ol' No. 2
09-13-2005, 06:25 PM
Even as a lefty specialist he hasn't been doing the job. Left-handed batters have been batting .272 against Marte while right-handed hitters are hitting .225. Until Marte gets his head/neck straightened out our only left-handed option is Cotts. I'm hoping things work out for Marte but these reports don't look promising.You're forgetting David Sanders.

ShoelessJoeS
09-13-2005, 06:28 PM
Actually, I want Hernandez to start Saturday and McCarthy to start on Sunday. That lines up Contreras, Garcia and Buehrle to face the Indians next week with an extra day's rest.
Not a bad idea, I think I would go for that. Even though Ozzie and our staff perfer pitching every 5 days, it seems as though everyone excluding JC has looked a little burnt out as of late. I'd love to see BMac make a start and have JC, Freddy and MB go against the Tribe. Plus, that would give our other guys a seemingly much needed day off through this long September stretch.

Madvora
09-13-2005, 06:30 PM
Holy crap, keep this up to date if you guys here anything. This is pretty big news. Is it true that he's on the DL for the rest of the season?
What about the playoffs?

Ol' No. 2
09-13-2005, 06:53 PM
Nothing about DL or suspension in Reifort's blog today. He only mentions the circumstances of his showing up late on Sunday and being sent home. If it's out in the media, there's no reason for him to hide it. I'm still waiting to hear more about this.

Jjav829
09-13-2005, 06:55 PM
Well, that's great. We really needed him to pitch well for us in the playoffs. Now he won't even be on the playoff roster. This hurts our pen. I think it's pretty safe to say that Marte has pitched his last game as a member of the White Sox. Like beckett said, too bad we didn't ship him out when he still had value. Maybe Kenny knew something that back then.

So that makes El Duque and Marte as the Sox players that are very likely to be traded in the offseason. We'll see if that list expands.

starboy0
09-13-2005, 07:03 PM
He was really good in 2002 and 2003. And then I'll never forget opening day in KC last year.

When he has come out of the pen this year it was like, "gulp."

Wonder what happened to him? He used to be so good.

DannyCaterFan
09-13-2005, 07:06 PM
He Gone! Not a moment too soon, and hopefully for good. :bandance:

hose
09-13-2005, 07:07 PM
From what they were saying on Chicago Tribune Live is that Marte is going to be shelved on the DL for the rest of the year and moved in a trade over the winter.

HotelWhiteSox
09-13-2005, 07:08 PM
According to Levine, a DL trip will be announced tomorow, most likely some neck injury, but obviously a mental thing/message. He said he won't be released though, probably traded in the offseason

Crede_Fan
09-13-2005, 07:31 PM
Do you think they are putting him on the DL so that it opens up a playoff roster spot? Because if they suspended him they couldn't use his spot for someone else, or could they?

MRKARNO
09-13-2005, 07:39 PM
It's too bad that it got to this, but Marte's (apparent) attitude was not going to be tolerated by Ozzie or by Kenny. Apparently, Marte didnt learn from the Jon Rauch incident that improper behavior won't be "forgotten." He had been great for us before, but he has some issues to work out before taking the mound again. There is nothing special about a lefty "specialist" who allows a .400 OBP to lefties. The guy was allowing 5 baserunners every three IP, on average. That aint gonna cut it.

DumpJerry
09-13-2005, 08:01 PM
According to Levine, a DL trip will be announced tomorow, most likely some neck injury, but obviously a mental thing/message. He said he won't be released though, probably traded in the offseason

:lynch&mcfail
"So, he has an attitude?' Baker has experience with guys like this. Remember that Scosa guy or whatever his name was? I think our first baseman, whatshisname.........Don Lee? Anyway, this Lee kid is quiet, no attitude. Maybe we can do a straight up trade for Marte with Lee? Williams is sly, he might try to give us a washed up pitcher like that McCartney kid who could not complete a game against us. Don't take McCartney. Good music, lousy pitcher. Williams tried to dump him on the Reds"

"Andy, I like your way of thinking, I'll see if Williams will takes the bait......"

cheeses_h_rice
09-13-2005, 08:06 PM
Too bad, I was hoping he'd still be on the team for the playoffs.

He's been inconsistent, but not awful, and his stuff was still amazing when it was on.

Frater Perdurabo
09-13-2005, 09:38 PM
It is too bad the Sox couldn't trade him when his value was higher, although various iterations of the rumoured deal with the Marlins for A.J. Burnett at times included McCarthy and/or Contreras, who have been rock solid anchors in the rotation of late.

Too bad KW could get the Marlins to take Marte, whom they were rumored to covet, and minor leaguers in exchange for Burnett and Lowell, with the Sox picking up the remainder of Lowell's contract.
:rolleyes:

PaleHoseGeorge
09-13-2005, 09:47 PM
Well, that's great. We really needed him to pitch well for us in the playoffs. Now he won't even be on the playoff roster. This hurts our pen. I think it's pretty safe to say that Marte has pitched his last game as a member of the White Sox. Like beckett said, too bad we didn't ship him out when he still had value. Maybe Kenny knew something that back then.

Let's not forget last July the Oracle of Reinsdorphi was calling out Marte on TV. The trade never happened but there is no doubt in my mind the Sox were trying to move him. Now it's clear they never had much use for him the past several months either.

The Sox must REALLY not like Marte to kill his trade value like this.
:cool:

:hawk
"Dad gummit. Another walk by Marte. I have never..."

:reinsy
"Ruth, can you turn the TV down, I'm having a hard time thinking over Hawk's voice."

CallMeNuts
09-13-2005, 09:51 PM
Yeah but a 3-man bullpen isnt exactly ideal for clinching, much less the playoffs...

Who woulda thunk it at the beginning of the season: Takatsu & Marte are both off the roster by 9/13. But not to worry: We've got Hermanson, Jenks, Polite, Cotts, McCarthy, Viz (& Hernandez?) in the pen for the post-season.

Big-time Kudos to Kenny for assembling this pitching staff. Both the starters and the relievers.

Frater Perdurabo
09-13-2005, 09:53 PM
Who woulda thunk it at the beginning of the season: Takatsu & Marte are both off the roster by 9/13. But not to worry: We've got Hermanson, Jenks, Polite, Cotts, McCarthy, Viz (& Hernandez?) in the pen for the post-season.

Big-time Kudos to Kenny for assembling this pitching staff. Both the starters and the relievers.

This may be an instance of addition by subtraction, because it opens a playoff roster spot for McCarthy, who clearly is a better pitcher than Marte.

I_Liked_Manuel
09-13-2005, 10:57 PM
it's too bad he could never get it turned around on a consistant basis. the guy was absolutely lights out in 2003. he was so good it was scary.

Ol' No. 2
09-14-2005, 12:45 AM
it's too bad he could never get it turned around on a consistant basis. the guy was absolutely lights out in 2003. he was so good it was scary.Even this year when he was on he was almost unhittable. He just never could do it consistently, and was death in a pressure situation.

mdep524
09-14-2005, 01:05 AM
Wow, this is a surprise. I was hoping Damaso would "just get by" for the rest of the season and playoffs and then get traded with relatively high return this offseason. But unless he has a legit short term injury, (or if the Sox can sell another team on that story :wink:) his trade value has just been shot. I am, however, relieved to some degree that Ozzie can't use him anymore- McCarthy and Cotts will be much better.

Optipessimism
09-14-2005, 01:31 AM
It is too bad the Sox couldn't trade him when his value was higher, although various iterations of the rumoured deal with the Marlins for A.J. Burnett at times included McCarthy and/or Contreras, who have been rock solid anchors in the rotation of late.

Too bad KW could get the Marlins to take Marte, whom they were rumored to covet, and minor leaguers in exchange for Burnett and Lowell, with the Sox picking up the remainder of Lowell's contract.
:rolleyes:

I'll take Contreras and his 6mil contract over Burnett right now and in the playoffs, but it would have been nice to have gotten another reliever for him.

Optipessimism
09-14-2005, 01:33 AM
Wow, this is a surprise. I was hoping Damaso would "just get by" for the rest of the season and playoffs and then get traded with relatively high return this offseason. But unless he has a legit short term injury, (or if the Sox can sell another team on that story :wink:) his trade value has just been shot. I am, however, relieved to some degree that Ozzie can't use him anymore- McCarthy and Cotts will be much better.

I don't think his trade value has been shot at all. He's had a great career so far as a LH specialist/set up man and posted some nice numbers. Even in his down years, his numbers are still acceptable given his contract and his ability. Someone will take him and I think we'll get a nice return on it.

BeviBall!
09-14-2005, 01:36 AM
I think he'll be back and on the playoff roster. We need two lefties... and, he came back blazing off the DL last time.

Lip Man 1
09-14-2005, 02:05 AM
Obviously there is more to this story then just a 'neck' injury. An injury doesn't explain arriving late without an excuse and crapping in your pants every time you've been on the mound lately.

It's a shame this garbage has to happen now with three weeks left. Another nagging distraction the Sox have to expend energy overcoming.

As was stated when he's on, he's great, but that hasn't been the case since 2003. I don't know but something happened to him. This puts a lot of pressure of Cotts now as the only left hander.

They better not be even considering bringing up that idiot Kevin Walker!

Lip

StockdaleForVeep
09-14-2005, 02:10 AM
ESPN 1000 just reported that Marte was not on the team plane to KC today. Anyone hear more than that?

:hawk
"he gone"

getonbckthr
09-14-2005, 02:16 AM
i don't think this is the first time. I believe Damaso is a multiple offender on showing up late to the ballpark.

CAN I BREAK HIS SALSA PLAYING BOOMBOX!!

Lip Man 1
09-14-2005, 02:25 AM
From the Tribune. Apparently Damaso doesn't trust the Sox medical staff and that apparently is part of the issue.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-050913soxmarte,1,7671491.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

Lip

IowaSox1971
09-14-2005, 03:06 AM
Didn't Marte have an absolutely awesome two-inning stint for a victory at Anaheim in May? In his most recent appearance against Boston, in Boston, didn't he make Ortiz look sick on an eighth-inning strikeout? Marte's been through a rough stretch recently, but he still is a good lefty reliever, at times dominant. It would be foolish to basically boot him off the team for the remainder of the season.

Suspend him for a couple of games, then bring him back and have him pitch in middle relief. If he starts pitching well, then perhaps he can be a factor in the playoffs or the final few games against Cleveland.

We have six games left with Cleveland, and they could be very important games. Facing a team like that with just one proven lefty in the pen could spell disaster.

TomBradley72
09-14-2005, 07:42 AM
Looks like Marte through a tantrum at Ozzie...not the smartest move in the world:

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/141sd1.htm

MsSoxVixen22
09-14-2005, 09:16 AM
Pardon this question if it sounds assinine, but do we even have any other lefties we can bring up from the minors? Just curious.

ChicagoHoosier
09-14-2005, 09:47 AM
Pardon this question if it sounds assinine, but do we even have any other lefties we can bring up from the minors? Just curious.

I don't think it's a dumb question at all. I'm curious what the other posters think about us only have two lefties on the whole post-season staff. If I'm correct, only MB and Cotts are lefties. That really could screw with Ozzie's decision making in the playoffs.

Of course, sometimes I disagreed with Cotts being used for only 1-2 batters, so maybe this will be a blessing in disguise and Ozzie won't use so many relievers in the 7-8 innings.

FielderJones
09-14-2005, 09:58 AM
Pardon this question if it sounds assinine, but do we even have any other lefties we can bring up from the minors? Just curious.

Not a stupid question, but in a word, the answer is no. Kevin Walker has looked horrible at the ML level. At this stage of the season, there's no one who's going to come out of AAA or AA and be able to pitch in a pressure situation.

In the post-season, we're going to have to make do with Cotts, and in an emergency, Buehrle.

Baby Fisk
09-14-2005, 10:04 AM
Looks like Marte through a tantrum at Ozzie...not the smartest move in the world:

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/141sd1.htm
Looks like Ozzie's love affair with Marte is done.

BeviBall!
09-14-2005, 10:09 AM
Two firey guys... hopefully cooler heads will prevail once they slept on it last night. Marte's done too much for this team just to write him off. Last I checked, this isn't Rauch or Lowe.

Ol' No. 2
09-14-2005, 10:10 AM
Looks like Marte through a tantrum at Ozzie...not the smartest move in the world:

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/141sd1.htmWritten by tail-gunner Joe. This guy's made stirring up **** into a career. Take it with a large grain of salt.

FielderJones
09-14-2005, 10:10 AM
Looks like Ozzie's love affair with Marte is done.

Ozzie gave the guy every chance and more to get his head out of his ass, and Marte just couldn't make the adjustment. I think Marte was treated fairly this year given the opportunities he just didn't take advantage of.

That Southtown article states that left handed batters are hitting .098 against Jenks. He's a guy who can give you two or even three innings. Who needs Marte to come in and

:gascan?

Fungo
09-14-2005, 10:37 AM
Not a stupid question, but in a word, the answer is no. Kevin Walker has looked horrible at the ML level. At this stage of the season, there's no one who's going to come out of AAA or AA and be able to pitch in a pressure situation.

In the post-season, we're going to have to make do with Cotts, and in an emergency, Buehrle.Plus, only players who are on the 40 roster as of September 1 are eligible for the post season roster. David Sanders and Kevin Walker are the only 2 I can think of. I'll pass.

RichFitztightly
09-14-2005, 12:40 PM
Written by tail-gunner Joe. This guy's made stirring up **** into a career. Take it with a large grain of salt.

I don't know why everybody get's on Joe Cowley's case all the time. He's not that bad. This is a story that's going to come out eventually regardless of who breaks it. It might as well be Joe.

Judging by comments in the newspaper and on TV it seems to me that KW and Ozzie, along with the players themselves really respect the guy. It could be a lot worse if the story came out from somebody else. I sure as hell wouldn't expect Moronotti to get quotes from Kuysner, or to state that Ozzie is taking the "politically correct" route and saying nothing but good things about Marte.

I'd expect Moronotti to insert himself in the story and take countless cheap shots at Guillen, KW, Hawk, and Reinsdorf... well, basically he'd write an inaccurate story. I've always gotten the feeling that at least Joe Cowley's stories are accurate.

I don't get why people get on Joe's case all the time. He just reports the stories, he doesn't make them happen.

Ol' No. 2
09-14-2005, 01:37 PM
I don't know why everybody get's on Joe Cowley's case all the time. He's not that bad. This is a story that's going to come out eventually regardless of who breaks it. It might as well be Joe.

Judging by comments in the newspaper and on TV it seems to me that KW and Ozzie, along with the players themselves really respect the guy. It could be a lot worse if the story came out from somebody else. I sure as hell wouldn't expect Moronotti to get quotes from Kuysner, or to state that Ozzie is taking the "politically correct" route and saying nothing but good things about Marte.

I'd expect Moronotti to insert himself in the story and take countless cheap shots at Guillen, KW, Hawk, and Reinsdorf... well, basically he'd write an inaccurate story. I've always gotten the feeling that at least Joe Cowley's stories are accurate.

I don't get why people get on Joe's case all the time. He just reports the stories, he doesn't make them happen.Cowley has a long history of taking bits and snippets of quotes and stringing them together to concoct a story. Remember the whole "Ex-teammates dis Carlos Lee" story? Not the first time. I'd take anything he says with a grain of salt.

hawkjt
09-14-2005, 02:01 PM
I think they should put him on the DL and let it cool off. He will probably apoligize to Ozzie after he comes back. Sorry, but when I look at our bullpen right now I see significant erosion.

Politte- Cannot seem to break 90mph lately. He is either tired or hurting. When he had the 95 heater he was unhittable , now- not so much.

Dustin- back problems have made him a huge question mark. His stuff has fallen off understandably with the health issue and how often can he go?

Vizzy- hard to predict with him but he will need to be a bigger role guy with Damaso gone.

Cotts- has not been quite as sizzling hot as he was mid-season.

Jenks- awesome.

McCarthy/Duque - probable long relief combo in playoffs- rookie and aging vet -jury is out.

Bottom line is the the bullpen needs a healthy Damaso back for the playoffs. Even if he just pitches against rightys who he has held to .236.

Paulwny
09-14-2005, 02:13 PM
Now, let's see if some of the players, one in particular, can keep their mouths shut and not voice an opinion to the press on this matter.

Keep it in the club house, let OZ and KW do the talking.

maurice
09-14-2005, 02:17 PM
I'd be very happy if the post-season bullpen had only 1 LHP. It would limit Ozzie's ability to make bad "situational" pitching changes. With any luck, this marks the end of bringing in Cotts to face 1 batter and then pulling him in favor of an inferior pitcher.

The guys we have left in the pen should be plenty. For the Sox to do well in the playoffs, they'll need good outings by the starters. That leaves only a couple of innings per game for the relievers. Hermanson, Jenks, Cotts, Politte, and (if needed) Vizcaino should be fine, especially with the scheduled off days. If we need somebody for a longer stint, the pen apparently will include 2 starters (McCarthy and Hernandez).

The silver lining is huge, IMO.

maurice
09-14-2005, 02:23 PM
Here are some important stats that everybody should be aware of when discussing the Sox pen for the playoffs.

Sox pen since the ASB
Pitcher - ERA - WHIP
Hermanson - 2.16 - 0.84
Jenks - 0.94 - 1.01
Cotts - 0.46 - 0.86
Politte - 3.51 - 1.13
Vizcaino - 2.11 - 1.03
McCarthy - 0.89 - 0.64
Hernandez - 5.34 - 1.20

With the exception of Duke's ERA, those numbers are really really good.

maurice
09-14-2005, 02:30 PM
The Sox still have the best ERA in the AL. They also have the 3rd best starter's ERA (8th overall) and the 2nd best bullpen ERA (2nd overall).

The wonderful teams in the very difficult AL East rank as follows among all MLB teams . . .

Yankees:
Overall - 19th
Starters - 22nd
Bullpen - 16th

Red Cubs:
Overall - 24th
Starters - 17th
Bullpen - 29th

Ol' No. 2
09-14-2005, 02:35 PM
The Sox still have the best ERA in the AL. They also have the best starter's ERA and the 2nd best bullpen ERA.

The wonderful teams in the very difficult AL East ranks as follows . . .

Yankees:
Overall - 19th
Starters - 22nd
Bullpen - 29th

Red Cubs:
Overall - 24th
Starters - 17th
Bullpen - 16thVery few teams make it to the WS without a pitching staff ranking at least in the top 3 or 4 of their league.

maurice
09-14-2005, 02:40 PM
Very few teams make it to the WS without a pitching staff ranking at least in the top 3 or 4 of their league.

Right, which means that the AL representative almost certainly will not come from the overrated AL East. The top 5 pitching staffs in the AL all hail from the Central (3) or the West (2).

Frater Perdurabo
09-14-2005, 02:41 PM
If Marte was right-handed, people wouldn't even be this worried about him being gone from the pen. The point of having a lefty specialist is because they should be good at getting lefties out, right?

A stroll through the 2005 splits reveals Marte has been exceedingly average at his primary job: getting lefties out.

In 81 at bats, lefties are batting .272 with 14 walks against lefty specialist Damaso Marte.

In 89 at-bats, lefties are batting .213 with nine walks against lefty specialist Neal Cotts.

In 65 total at-bats, lefties are batting .154 with eight walks against Cliff Politte.

In 79 at-bats, lefties are batting .177 with six walks against Brandon McCarthy.

In 42 at-bats, lefties are batting .043 with five walks against Bobby Jenks.

Bottom line: in the playoffs, the Sox bullpen will be full of guys who have been outstanding at getting lefties out this year.

Ol' No. 2
09-14-2005, 02:46 PM
If Marte was right-handed, people wouldn't even be this worried about him being gone from the pen. The point of having a lefty specialist is because they should be good at getting lefties out, right?

A stroll through the 2005 splits reveals Marte has been exceedingly average at his primary job: getting lefties out.If Marte was right-handed he would never have gotten out of AA. But then, you can probably say the same for half the LH relievers in MLB. Good LH relievers are the rarest commodity in baseball.

Frater Perdurabo
09-14-2005, 02:51 PM
If Marte was right-handed he would never have gotten out of AA. But then, you can probably say the same for half the LH relievers in MLB. Good LH relievers are the rarest commodity in baseball.

So then you agree that the stats I quoted above make Marte absolutely superfluous to the Sox bullpen, yes?

I'd much rather have McCarthy in the pen than Marte. In addition to having more success against lefties than Marte, McCarthy also has the ability to pitch three, four, five or even six strong innings.

Ol' No. 2
09-14-2005, 02:55 PM
So then you agree that the stats I quoted above make Marte absolutely superfluous to the Sox bullpen, yes?

I'd much rather have McCarthy in the pen than Marte. In addition to having more success against lefties than Marte, McCarthy also has the ability to pitch three, four, five or even six strong innings.Depends on which Marte you're talking about. When he's right he's all but unhittable - for righties or lefties. Unfortunately, that seems to be occurring less and less frequently. I don't think I'd trust him in a playoff situation.

DaleJRFan
09-14-2005, 03:04 PM
I'll take Contreras and his 6mil contract over Burnett right now and in the playoffs, but it would have been nice to have gotten another reliever for him.

AJ Burnett September starts (two starts):
0-2 12.27 ERA 7.1 IP 4 BB 12 K 10 ER

Jason Schmidt September Starts (two starts):
1-0 5.73 ERA 11 IP 6 BB 15 K 7 ER

Contreras September starts (three starts):
3-0 2.66 ERA 20.1 IP 8 BB 15 K 6 ER

I'll take Contreras over Burnett or Schmidt any day of the week, not counting recent performance. Sometimes, the best trades are the ones not made.

Thank goodness (and KW) the Sox still have McCarthy and Contreras... We'll need them come October.

DumpJerry
09-14-2005, 03:10 PM
Very few teams make it to the WS without a pitching staff ranking at least in the top 3 or 4 of their league.
Be still, beating heart................:wink:

Ol' No. 2
09-14-2005, 06:03 PM
From Reifort's blog today:
Damaso Marte saw our team physician today and continues to be bothered by a sore left trapezius. No sense yet on when or if he will be available for the rest of this season.It doesn't sound like the axe is about to fall.

Jjav829
09-14-2005, 08:41 PM
From Reifort's blog today:
It doesn't sound like the axe is about to fall.

Do you mean as far as Marte's future with the Sox is concerned? I think the biggest indication that Marte is done as a Sox is that he was placed on the DL. There is no real need to place anyone on the DL in September. The point of the DL is so that you can free up a spot for another on your 25-man roster. So when rosters expand in September, the DL is pointless. That's why players like Rich Harden, who hasn't pitched since August 19th, have not been placed on the DL. The Sox didn't need to put Marte on the DL. The fact that they did is a pretty big indication that they are trying to distance him from the team.

Daver
09-14-2005, 08:53 PM
Do you mean as far as Marte's future with the Sox is concerned? I think the biggest indication that Marte is done as a Sox is that he was placed on the DL. There is no real need to place anyone on the DL in September. The point of the DL is so that you can free up a spot for another on your 25-man roster. So when rosters expand in September, the DL is pointless. That's why players like Rich Harden, who hasn't pitched since August 19th, have not been placed on the DL. The Sox didn't need to put Marte on the DL. The fact that they did is a pretty big indication that they are trying to distance him from the team.

You put a guy on the DL in Sept. to add another player to the forty man roster that can be placed on the playoff roster.

Jjav829
09-14-2005, 09:09 PM
You put a guy on the DL in Sept. to add another player to the forty man roster that can be placed on the playoff roster.

Well, since the Sox haven't officially placed him on the DL yet, we don't know which DL they're placing him on. If they put him on the 60-day DL, then that's the case. But if he's only placed on the 15-day DL, then it's a pointless move as it doesn't clear up a spot on the 40-man roster.

Ol' No. 2
09-14-2005, 11:37 PM
Well, since the Sox haven't officially placed him on the DL yet, we don't know which DL they're placing him on. If they put him on the 60-day DL, then that's the case. But if he's only placed on the 15-day DL, then it's a pointless move as it doesn't clear up a spot on the 40-man roster.They haven't put him on the DL and I doubt they're going to. That was just Bozo Levineline talking out his ass again. Today I happened to hear him on the pre-game show:

"The league informed Kenny Williams that there was no need to put Damaso on the DL with the expanded rosters."

Right, Bruce. Kenny didn't know how the DL worked. The league had to straighten him out.:rolleyes:

mjmcend
09-15-2005, 12:11 AM
Here is rotoworld's take:

Damaso Marte was found to have a strained muscle on the side of his upper back in an examination today. He could rejoin the White Sox this weekend.
Maybe. Manager Ozzie Guillen didn't sound excited about the idea of getting the left-hander back. ''If Marte's not ready to help this team, he can have a nice trip to the Dominican Republic by himself,'' Guillen said.


No idea if they are just talking out of their ass about coming back this weekend or if they know something I don't. Either way that quote from Ozzie is amusing.

SouthSide_HitMen
09-15-2005, 03:53 PM
This from Will Caroll (one of a few decent writers at BP) today:

The saga of the White Sox and Damaso Marte (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/dt/marteda01.shtml) gets weirder. Multiple sources state that Marte was placed on the DL, an unusual move in September, due to his demands. Marte, never a favorite of Ozzie Guillen, further distanced himself from the organization by requesting that two independent physicians check him out. Marte is under contract for next season, but with this one essentially over for him, he shouldn't expect to be back on the South Side, healthy or not. Expect the bullpen to shorten a bit in the last few weeks.

RichFitztightly
09-15-2005, 09:34 PM
Cowley has a long history of taking bits and snippets of quotes and stringing them together to concoct a story. Remember the whole "Ex-teammates dis Carlos Lee" story? Not the first time. I'd take anything he says with a grain of salt.

I'm probably not going to change your opinion on the matter, but I've read the Southtown nearly everyday for about 5 years. I could count on one hand the times Joe Cowley has written an article that could be considered negative. The only article I could remember about Carlos Lee was the one where he wrote that Marte plunked Lee on purpose in retaliation for Lee "bullying" and making Marte the butt of his jokes.

I don't think the original article is still online, but I found a site that quotes it here (http://www.all-baseball.com/exile/archives/018204.html). I didn't find anything terrible written in the article, actually it seemed to be defending Lee a bit by implying the "bullying" was more likely good natured ribbing that goes on in a clubhouse full of guys.

I do seem to remember Cowley mentioning that when players talked about "the player who slid into second like his wife was turning the double play," Cowley mentioned that the comment is widely regarded to be a Carlos Lee play. It always seemed to me that he was going off of reports in other newspapers when making that statement.

After writing all the previous words, I think I found the article you were referring to right here (http://bears.hosttown.com/index.php?showtopic=34679&b=1&st=&p=&). After reading it again, it didn't sound out of line with reality. At least it passed the sniff test. I think if somebody follows the team everyday of the season, he probably has an idea of what's going on behind the scene.

Again, as I stated before, you have your opinion on the matter and I have mine. I do think though that he's not as bad as some make him out to be. I probably won't change your opinion, but at least I got mine out there.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-15-2005, 09:51 PM
.... At least it passed the sniff test. I think if somebody follows the team everyday of the season, he probably has an idea of what's going on behind the scene.

Before you go off on another nonsensical defense of Tailgunner Joe, why don't you go find all the follow-up stories about what a cancer Carlos Lee was besides the rip job Tailgunner Joe did on him.

After you come up empty on that challenge, next you can go find all the follow-up articles about what an ungrateful jerk Willie Harris is after Tailgunner Joe tarred him the day after the Iguchi signing.

But I'm guessing a skunk passes your "sniff test" too...

:kukoo:

RichFitztightly
09-16-2005, 08:43 PM
Before you go off on another nonsensical defense of Tailgunner Joe, why don't you go find all the follow-up stories about what a cancer Carlos Lee was besides the rip job Tailgunner Joe did on him.

After you come up empty on that challenge, next you can go find all the follow-up articles about what an ungrateful jerk Willie Harris is after Tailgunner Joe tarred him the day after the Iguchi signing.

But I'm guessing a skunk passes your "sniff test" too...

:kukoo:

Whoa man, all I was trying to say is that I don't think Cowley is conveying the idea that Carlos Lee was a cancer. I never got that idea from reading his articles. The only thought I got was that Carlos Lee came across as less than perfect and not the ideal teamate. Nowhere did I get the picture that he was a cancer.

Same thing with the Willie Harris article. There was a big move regarding Willie Harris and Cowley got his take on it. It came across as less than perfect, but I never thought Willie came off bad.

My defense may be nonsensical, but that's due to the lack of sleep. However, the only thing I really wanted to understand was the animosity directed towards Cowley, and after your message I guess by extension...me. I never thought he was as bad as people have said. I don't feel he ever takes cheap shots. I don't feel he ever inserts himself into a story. The players, manager, and general manager seem to respect him and continue to talk to him. If that fact alone doesn't warrant a lowered level of animosity, I don't know what does.

I'm not really sure what your point is. I'm not arguing that Cowley didn't write these articles, in fact I even linked to them in a previous post. What I am arguing is that these articles aren't as bad as everybody is making them out to be.

What do I know though, after all I am ---->:kukoo:

Oh, and a skunk does pass my sniff test too... It smells like a skunk.

Ol' No. 2
09-17-2005, 12:14 AM
Whoa man, all I was trying to say is that I don't think Cowley is conveying the idea that Carlos Lee was a cancer. I never got that idea from reading his articles. The only thought I got was that Carlos Lee came across as less than perfect and not the ideal teamate. Nowhere did I get the picture that he was a cancer.

Same thing with the Willie Harris article. There was a big move regarding Willie Harris and Cowley got his take on it. It came across as less than perfect, but I never thought Willie came off bad.

My defense may be nonsensical, but that's due to the lack of sleep. However, the only thing I really wanted to understand was the animosity directed towards Cowley, and after your message I guess by extension...me. I never thought he was as bad as people have said. I don't feel he ever takes cheap shots. I don't feel he ever inserts himself into a story. The players, manager, and general manager seem to respect him and continue to talk to him. If that fact alone doesn't warrant a lowered level of animosity, I don't know what does.

I'm not really sure what your point is. I'm not arguing that Cowley didn't write these articles, in fact I even linked to them in a previous post. What I am arguing is that these articles aren't as bad as everybody is making them out to be.

What do I know though, after all I am ---->:kukoo:

Oh, and a skunk does pass my sniff test too... It smells like a skunk.Cowley's articles mostly follow a familiar pattern. Get a bunch of quotes, take them out of context and string them together to try to make someone look bad. He did it to Willie Harris. The Lee piece I never could figure out if he was trying to make Lee look bad or his teammates. I guess that was a two-fer. Frank Thomas was another frequent target. And on and on. The pattern doesn't change.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-17-2005, 09:32 AM
Cowley's articles mostly follow a familiar pattern. Get a bunch of quotes, take them out of context and string them together to try to make someone look bad. He did it to Willie Harris. The Lee piece I never could figure out if he was trying to make Lee look bad or his teammates. I guess that was a two-fer. Frank Thomas was another frequent target. And on and on. The pattern doesn't change.

Don't waste your time. This guy admits a skunk passes his sniff test. No wonder he defends Tailgunner Joe.

RichFitztightly
09-17-2005, 04:29 PM
Cowley's articles mostly follow a familiar pattern. Get a bunch of quotes, take them out of context and string them together to try to make someone look bad. He did it to Willie Harris. The Lee piece I never could figure out if he was trying to make Lee look bad or his teammates. I guess that was a two-fer. Frank Thomas was another frequent target. And on and on. The pattern doesn't change.

I'm just trying to say that they don't really follow that pattern. Cowley writes 2-3 articles every other day about the Sox. It comes out to about 300-400 articles a year. Of those 300-400 articles 3-4 are considered negative. (I could give you as many as 8-10 articles without argument) Personally, I think 3-4 negative articles is a high estimate, but I can't account for anybody else's opinion but mine. Anyways, it comes out to about a 1-2% negative article rate, compared to the columnists in this city, 1-2% isn't bad at all. Hell, Moronotti blows by that percentage in 2 paragraphs.

Today's articles are more representative of Cowley's writing style. He just gives a recap of the game, with a description of key moments, and some quotes regarding those key moments. He'll give a quote from Ozzie, and he'll even clean it up most of the time too, which is relevant to the story. His other article was about Marte. He just said that Marte apologized to the team and to Ozzie. Cowley even made sure to mention that Marte didn't have to apologize to Ozzie for what was said in that meeting, but Marte made it a point to apologize anyways because he felt so bad. TailGunner Joe is really straffing the Sox with his negativity.

Sorry No. 2, I didn't mean to add that sarcastic quote in response to your post. I enjoy reading your opinions. It was more in response to this:


Don't waste your time. This guy admits a skunk passes his sniff test. No wonder he defends Tailgunner Joe.

I know with your awesome analogy, it's easy to be dismissive of others. Just because something smells bad, doesn't mean it's not supposed to smell that way. A much better analogy would be to use "spoiled milk" as something that obviously shouldn't pass a sniff test. Thanks for playing, I've really enjoyed your responses.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-17-2005, 04:35 PM
Sorry, but just because YOU don't see a pattern with Tailgunner Joe doesn't mean the rest of us are so naive.

He routinely pieces together quotes on Frank.

He pieces together quotes on Harris.

He pieces together quotes on Lee.

What do they all have in common? Nobody besides Tailgunner Joe covers the same angle. Why do you suppose that is?

Spilt milk, dead skunks, whatever... you're the one defending the smell of it all.

:rolleyes:

RichFitztightly
09-17-2005, 06:57 PM
Sorry, but just because YOU don't see a pattern with Tailgunner Joe doesn't mean the rest of us are so naive.

He routinely pieces together quotes on Frank.

He pieces together quotes on Harris.

He pieces together quotes on Lee.

What do they all have in common? Nobody besides Tailgunner Joe covers the same angle. Why do you suppose that is?

Spilt milk, dead skunks, whatever... you're the one defending the smell of it all.

:rolleyes:

If you want the last word, you can have it after this. I don't think anybody is naive on the subject. I just think there's a differing of opinions here. And if my college roomate can fiercely defend his opinion that Richard Simmons is not gay, then I can hold my opinion that Cowley is not a negative writer. The whole point of my original post defending him was in regards to Marte. He seemed to be on the ball with that.

I'll leave it with that. I actually enjoyed my time on this subject. That's not supposed to be in teal either. You're last post had a less aggressive tone to it, yet still defended your opinion. That's what I like about this message board, it's much more civil than most.

Cheers :cheers:

jabrch
09-17-2005, 07:22 PM
http://www.therealmccoys.com/images/signed/irons2.jpg

Joe Cowley....ahk....pttttttoooooeeeee