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White Sox Randy
09-12-2005, 08:55 AM
There are 3 main problems with the SOX lineup:

1. They are still too right handed. They need atleast a coulple of BIG left handed bats i.e. not Willie Harris or Geoff Blum. Ideally, they would have 5 or more leftys or switch hitters in the lineup.

2. There are too many slow players. They want to play Ozzie ball ? The only "fast" guy is Pods. Crede, A.J., Konerko, Thomas, Everett are all slow guys that clog the bases and hit into too many double plays. Small ball is a great idea but can't work consistently with a bunch of guys like this.

3. We have too many low OBP guys! There OBP is about as low as any team in baseball - that makes it very tough to score runs.

So, while KW has done a great job with the pitching staff and defense, there is still much work to be done on the lineup. That's what makes the GM job so hard.

TaylorStSox
09-12-2005, 09:14 AM
This is true. But, who do you change? We only have 2 power pitchers. Our pitchers rely on their defense. I'd like to see Crede and Rowand hit more, but their defense is more important. Uribe's fine. His defense is among the league's best and we don't rely on his offense.

There just aren't that many 5 tool players to go around.

Where would you upgrade? I'd like to get a LH 1st baseman. I'd like to see a CF who brings more to the table. Rowand leads the team in hits, but he K's far too much. His numbers w/RISP are good but they're tailing dramatically. He can't turn on the ball. He makes Crede and Uribe look patient.

I'm glad I'm not the GM. It's just not that simple.

White Sox Randy
09-12-2005, 10:19 AM
I'm glad I'm not the GM. It's just not that simple.[/QUOTE]

I wish more fans would understand this. They seem to think that putting together a championship team is just a matter of getting a shopping list together and then going to Walmart to fill it. Oh yeah, and all the other GM's are stupid and will give you whatever you ask for.

I do think that 1B and DH are the best places to get big LH bats. If the Sox want to spend big for Furcal, they could get a leadoff hitter (eliminates Pods so we could put a big bat in LF - Matsui ?) and still have good defense.

How about we outbid everyone for Hideki Matsui and Furcal ? Trade Pods and Uribe or Crede.

JRIG
09-12-2005, 10:21 AM
3. We have too many low OBP guys! There OBP is about as low as any team in baseball - that makes it very tough to score runs.



This should be number 1, high above all others. The White Sox, by far, have had the fewest at bats in the AL this year with runners in scoring position.

And they have the second-fewest walks in the league as well.

kittle42
09-12-2005, 10:25 AM
This should be number 1, high above all others. The White Sox, by far, have had the fewest at bats in the AL this year with runners in scoring position.

And they have the second-fewest walks in the league as well.

Smallball

hold2dibber
09-12-2005, 10:33 AM
There are 3 main problems with the SOX lineup:

1. They are still too right handed. They need atleast a coulple of BIG left handed bats i.e. not Willie Harris or Geoff Blum. Ideally, they would have 5 or more leftys or switch hitters in the lineup.

They need one middle of the order left-handed bat. Griffey would work. Not sure who else might be out there (Helton scares me - he looks done).

2. There are too many slow players. They want to play Ozzie ball ? The only "fast" guy is Pods. Crede, A.J., Konerko, Thomas, Everett are all slow guys that clog the bases and hit into too many double plays. Small ball is a great idea but can't work consistently with a bunch of guys like this.

Rowand, Iguchi, Uribe and Dye are all relatively fast. But Pods is the only burner (other than Harris). You're typically not going to have a lot of speed at 1B, DH, C or 3B, so I'm not sure that there's much you can do at those spots. I think they have enough speed.


3. We have too many low OBP guys! There OBP is about as low as any team in baseball - that makes it very tough to score runs.

BINGO! In the off season, the Sox need to try to upgrade significantly in this area. Konerko, Pods and Iguchi are the only three regulars who have acceptable OBP (Dye is marginal). They need to upgrade at 3B, CF and DH (and possibly SS) in this area.

KyWhiSoxFan
09-12-2005, 10:46 AM
The White Sox have to make some moves in the off season to get some guys who can get on base more regularly and pick up some more speed.

I would trade Rowand, Everett, Dye, Marte, and El Duque, and if you throw in a couple of our minor leaguers, I think we can pick up some players for that group. You move Pods to center and try to get more consistency from the corner outfields. Dye and Rowand are too up and down for my taste. Dye will be one year older and one year worse next year, and we can still get someone pretty decent for Rowand, particularly if we package him with a pitcher.

Lem_Siddons
09-12-2005, 10:54 AM
^^^^^^^^^^

I'd keep Rowand in center for another season. Other than that, every GM in the league knows what KW needs, and what he has to offer. It's pretty obvious. KW is going to have a tough offseason upgrading.

I's like to have a corner outfielder with similar stats to the guy in Detroit. >.300, maybe some pop.

miker
09-12-2005, 11:39 AM
Since everyone seems to be working on next season, are we assuming this one is over?

Also, Griffey's bat is only useful when Griffey is in lineup. For those needing proof, I recommend the box scores of the Cincinatti Reds 2000-present...

:smile:

SoxinAZ
09-12-2005, 11:59 AM
The very low average with RISP is killing this team. Look how many baserunners are getting on and then are stranded there.:angry:

Rikirk
09-12-2005, 12:02 PM
Does anyone else think that a McCarthy/Jenks combo would be a nice 1-2 punch?

Have McCarthy start...and Jenks finish it.

Yes..yes I may seem like Captain Obvious here but Im just siting here thinking of ways to start winning and this is what I came up with. Just thinking out loud.

And just for giggles...my idea of a line up.

Borchard
Podsednik
Iguchi
Konerko
Rowand
Dye
Harris
Ozuna
Widger

*Im basing my line up on OBP*:rolleyes:

Lip Man 1
09-12-2005, 12:15 PM
Gang:

With respect I suggest tabling this discussion for the off season. The Sox are now in a race, a race no one thought would happen. To me that's far more important then discussing, OBP, XYZ and all the other garbage from stat heads. Plus it's not like the Sox can actually do anything about it now can they? (with 20 games remaining...)

Also keep in mind the Sox have a number of free agents and arbitration eligible players this off season, that and exactly how much payroll Ken Williams is going to be allowed to have will determine everything else. Until that is figured out it's useless speculating on who to trade, who to re-sign and so forth.

Lip

TaylorStSox
09-12-2005, 02:42 PM
Gang:

With respect I suggest tabling this discussion for the off season. The Sox are now in a race, a race no one thought would happen. To me that's far more important then discussing, OBP, XYZ and all the other garbage from stat heads. Plus it's not like the Sox can actually do anything about it now can they? (with 20 games remaining...)

Also keep in mind the Sox have a number of free agents and arbitration eligible players this off season, that and exactly how much payroll Ken Williams is going to be allowed to have will determine everything else. Until that is figured out it's useless speculating on who to trade, who to re-sign and so forth.

Lip


lol. I thought forums were for discussions. It's not like discussing next year is going to effect the way the team performs. Also, we're not on the team. We don't control whether they play well or not. There's no sense in worrying about things that are out of your control.

Frater Perdurabo
09-12-2005, 03:25 PM
With all due respect to those who have posted above in this thread, the biggest lineup problem the Sox have faced this year is not having a healthy Frank Thomas. The offense was an unstoppable juggernaut when Frank was healthy and playing (even though his own batting average wasn't great).

Lip is right; there's nothing the Sox can do for the rest of 2005 apart from shuffling the lineup and hoping a few guys get hot.

For 2006, assuming he's healthy, bringing Frank back (at a re-negotiated, incentive-laden deal) to bat cleanup next year is about the best thing the Sox can do to jump-start the lineup. The next-best thing for 2006, IMHO, would be to sign Brian Giles. He's leading the NL in walks and is third in OBP. He's left-handed and can play both left and right field. Of course this means Konerko would walk, but I expect Boston and both NY teams to drive his price above $11 million/year.

FWIW, here's how the lineup would shake out in this admittedly deeppink scenario (Giles supposedly has no interest in the Sox):

LF Pods, 2B Iguchi, RF Giles, DH Frank, C AJ, 1B Dye, CF Rowand, 3B Crede, SS Uribe.

Anderson would be the fourth OF, giving Ozzie opportunities to rest Pods, Giles and Rowand. A healthy Gload would be the backup 1B and fifth/corner OF. Ozuna and Harris are backup IFs and pinch runners. That leaves room for a 12 pitchers (Buehrle, Garland, Garcia, Contreras, McCarthy, Cotts, Politte, Hermanson, Jenks, Marte and two others.

Ol' No. 2
09-12-2005, 05:01 PM
With all due respect to those who have posted above in this thread, the biggest lineup problem the Sox have faced this year is not having a healthy Frank Thomas. The offense was an unstoppable juggernaut when Frank was healthy and playing (even though his own batting average wasn't great).

Lip is right; there's nothing the Sox can do for the rest of 2005 apart from shuffling the lineup and hoping a few guys get hot.

For 2006, assuming he's healthy, bringing Frank back (at a re-negotiated, incentive-laden deal) to bat cleanup next year is about the best thing the Sox can do to jump-start the lineup. The next-best thing for 2006, IMHO, would be to sign Brian Giles. He's leading the NL in walks and is third in OBP. He's left-handed and can play both left and right field. Of course this means Konerko would walk, but I expect Boston and both NY teams to drive his price above $11 million/year.

FWIW, here's how the lineup would shake out in this admittedly deeppink scenario (Giles supposedly has no interest in the Sox):

LF Pods, 2B Iguchi, RF Giles, DH Frank, C AJ, 1B Dye, CF Rowand, 3B Crede, SS Uribe.

Anderson would be the fourth OF, giving Ozzie opportunities to rest Pods, Giles and Rowand. A healthy Gload would be the backup 1B and fifth/corner OF. Ozuna and Harris are backup IFs and pinch runners. That leaves room for a 12 pitchers (Buehrle, Garland, Garcia, Contreras, McCarthy, Cotts, Politte, Hermanson, Jenks, Marte and two others.I don't understand the seemingly prevalent assumption that Jermaine Dye can switch to 1B just like that. It's not as if a 1B's job is to just stand there and catch the ball when they throw it to him. Picking balls out of the dirt is a skill that has to be learned. Also, quick reflexes are much more important than speed. Does he have the required reflexes? Playing ground balls is completely different from playing fly balls and is another skill set that has to be learned. There's also proper positioning for cutoffs and relays to be learned. It's just not that easy. It's possible that he can do it, but I wouldn't just assume so.

Frater Perdurabo
09-12-2005, 05:40 PM
I don't understand the seemingly prevalent assumption that Jermaine Dye can switch to 1B just like that. ... (edited for brevity)... It's possible that he can do it, but I wouldn't just assume so.

Deepink fantasizing allows me to sidestep these kinds of questions and hopefully would allow us to avoid having this thread devolve into another steaming pile of you-know-what about Paul Konerko!
:redneck:redface::tongue::wink::cool:

TomBradley72
09-12-2005, 06:00 PM
#1 problem with the WSox lineup is the production from 3B....overall...position by position...they get pretty good production...but if you're not going to get power out of your LF...you HAVE to get it from 3B. Playing in a homer friendly ballpark like the Cell...this is the #1 area to shore up. My second priority would be upgrading at DH....there's a reason Everett has bounced around from team to team and is not making the big dollars...he's mid range quality at DH.

I wouldn't go any further with the small ball/speed design of the team....it's too inconsistent with the park they play in.

np1000
09-12-2005, 06:22 PM
Assuming we can re-sign PK.....
Lefty Lineup Righty
1b-PK Gload
2b-Harris Igucci
SS-Ozuna Uribe
3b-Blum Crede
Lf-Anderson Pods
Cf-Rowand Rowand
Rf-Borchard Borchard
C-Widger Pierzynski
DH-Thomas Thomas

This only leaves 10 pitchers....so one of the above will have to go.....most likely case is PK signing elswhere......i like our kids we need to give em a chance

maurice
09-12-2005, 07:14 PM
I don't understand the seemingly prevalent assumption that Jermaine Dye can switch to 1B just like that.

I don't understand the presumption that it would be difficult for him to do so. It's the easiest defensive position in the game. Most MLB 1B are converts from other positions. Very many of them converted at the major-league level. Most are far less athletic than Dye.

Does he have the required reflexes?

Yes, along with 99% of the league. If you have quick enough reflexes to hit a 95 MPH fastball, you have quick enough reflexes to play 1B. The rest easily can be learned during the offseason + spring training.

Chisox0003
09-12-2005, 07:18 PM
Assuming we can re-sign PK.....
Lefty Lineup Righty
1b-PK Gload
2b-Harris Igucci
SS-Ozuna Uribe
3b-Blum Crede
Lf-Anderson Pods
Cf-Rowand Rowand
Rf-Borchard Borchard
C-Widger Pierzynski
DH-Thomas Thomas

That's terrible

The Sox would win 11 games with you setting the lineup

Gload, Harris, Ozuna, Blum, Borchard, and Widger all in the same lineup? Not to mention removing half of the decent hitters we already have?

Woof

np1000
09-14-2005, 07:17 PM
Read the rest of the thread somewhere it says KW is gonna have trouble making any decent aquisitions this off season so give it shot assuming we lose DYE to old age and Everett to well older age........oh dont forget PK is a free agent and they wouldn't pay to keep the best RF in the league why would they pay to keep a 1B that in my opnion is not a top ten 1B

That's terrible

The Sox would win 11 games with you setting the lineup

Gload, Harris, Ozuna, Blum, Borchard, and Widger all in the same lineup? Not to mention removing half of the decent hitters we already have?

Woof

voodoochile
09-14-2005, 07:26 PM
Read the rest of the thread somewhere it says KW is gonna have trouble making any decent aquisitions this off season so give it shot assuming we lose DYE to old age and Everett to well older age........oh dont forget PK is a free agent and they wouldn't pay to keep the best RF in the league why would they pay to keep a 1B that in my opnion is not a top ten 1B

Because the payroll is higher and they have to pay someone?

Because they will have a playoff caliber pitching staff if they do nothning but sit on their asses and talk on the phone?

Because Harris sucks?

Because Everett is younger than Dye?

Because Dye is still a very viable option in RF or even at 1b?

You need to take a deeper look at things and not take everything you read on ANY Intnernet message board so seriously...:rolleyes: