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WhiteSox12482
09-11-2005, 07:14 AM
Hey,
Who do you think has the better schedule down the stretch? The White Sox or Indians? I think we are going to find out how serious of threat the Indians are this week. They face Oakland with Haren, Sarlooss, and Zito going to the bump. This is probably the series of the year in AL. There are plenty of teams in AL actually rooting for Oakland including us for this week. I personally wouldn't care if Oakland got into playoffs. If they go on to take 2 out of 3 from Cle. They are all good in my book.

The White Sox have:
1 Vs. LAA, 3 @ KC, 3 @Minn, 3 CLE, 4 Minn, 4 @ Det, 3 @ Cle.
Pretty tough with one against LAA, 6 with Cle and 7 against Minn.

The Indians have:
1 vs. Minn, 3 Vs. Oakland, 3 Vs. KC, 3 @ Chi, 4 @ KC, 3 Vs. TB, and 3 Vs. Chi
Pretty tough against Oakland with pitching match-up I mentioned, not mention us. Look out for the D-Rays too. They can knock a couple people down.

My main thing is if the White Sox can get ship righted in the right direction they can make it. If they don't our first place dreams will all be a memory. The more W's they get now the better. So start today guys and beat the crap out of the angels.

Go White Sox

munchman33
09-11-2005, 07:32 AM
Since when is a matchup of two second place teams the series of the year? :kukoo:

CarlosMay'sThumb
09-11-2005, 08:28 AM
Hey,
Who do you think has the better schedule down the stretch? The White Sox or Indians? I think we are going to find out how serious of threat the Indians are this week. They face Oakland with Haren, Sarlooss, and Zito going to the bump. This is probably the series of the year in AL. There are plenty of teams in AL actually rooting for Oakland including us for this week. I personally wouldn't care if Oakland got into playoffs. If they go on to take 2 out of 3 from Cle. They are all good in my book.

The White Sox have:
1 Vs. LAA, 3 @ KC, 3 @Minn, 3 CLE, 4 Minn, 4 @ Det, 3 @ Cle.
Pretty tough with one against LAA, 6 with Cle and 7 against Minn.

The Indians have:
1 vs. Minn, 3 Vs. Oakland, 3 Vs. KC, 3 @ Chi, 4 @ KC, 3 Vs. TB, and 3 Vs. Chi
Pretty tough against Oakland with pitching match-up I mentioned, not mention us. Look out for the D-Rays too. They can knock a couple people down.

My main thing is if the White Sox can get ship righted in the right direction they can make it. If they don't our first place dreams will all be a memory. The more W's they get now the better. So start today guys and beat the crap out of the angels.

Go White Sox
Overwhelmingly an easier schedule for the Indians. 7 vs KC and 3 vs TB? The way the Indians have been playing, they take 9 of 10.

WhiteSox12482
09-11-2005, 08:31 AM
I'm not saying it's the series of the year, but it could go long way for our White Sox if Oakland takes 2 out of 3. It would help us if they did. That's all, plus a lot of teams vested interest, I'm pretty sure the Yankees will be pulling hard for Oakland.

WhiteSox12482
09-11-2005, 08:35 AM
Overwhelmingly an easier schedule for the Indians. 7 vs KC and 3 vs TB? The way the Indians have been playing, they take 9 of 10.

But the way Tampa Bay plays the good teams "New York" you can never can count out that team. Especially one manged by Pinella, who doesn't care what your record is or where you stand, you will always get 100% effort from them, Wish I can say the same about Tigers and the Twins, but they cashed it in a while ago.:angry:

BeviBall!
09-11-2005, 09:01 AM
Saarloos pitches for Oakland today. It'll probably be Haren, Blanton and Zito.

EDIT: Kennedy pitches today... it is Saarloos. Better for us.

soxjim
09-11-2005, 09:13 AM
Lets start by winning today. Then win our remaining series. If we get some help along the way fine. When we take care of our own business all will fall into place. GO SOX

munchman33
09-11-2005, 09:34 AM
I'm not saying it's the series of the year


Really?


This is probably the series of the year in AL.

Ol' No. 2
09-11-2005, 09:39 AM
Overwhelmingly an easier schedule for the Indians. 7 vs KC and 3 vs TB? The way the Indians have been playing, they take 9 of 10.How is it an easier schedule for the Indians? They have 3 against OAK and 6 against the best team in the AL. That's almost half their remaining games.

Besides, "easy schedules" have a way of coming back to bite you. Remember last year when the Cubs were a shoo-in for a WC because of their "easy" September schedule?

SOXSINCE'70
09-11-2005, 09:46 AM
How is it an easier schedule for the Indians? They have 3 against OAK and 6 against the best team in the AL. That's almost half their remaining games.

Besides, "easy schedules" have a way of coming back to bite you. Remember last year when the Cubs were a shoo-in for a WC because of their "easy" September schedule?

You are correct.No game is easy for a contender trying to win a
division or a WC birth.The only exception might be the Cardinals.
They've had the N.L. Central sewn up since July or August.

Hang on,Sox fans.The roller coaster ride to the playoffs
will pick up its speed shortly.In the meantime,let's hope
Orlando Hernandez can beat a tough opponent in John
Lackey.Thank God it's not Paul Byrd!! The Sox always seem
to lose games he starts.

whitesoxwin
09-11-2005, 10:05 AM
Lets start by winning today. Then win our remaining series. If we get some help along the way fine. When we take care of our own business all will fall into place. GO SOX

Agree....
Let's take care of our own business and quit worrying about the other teams.
I like it the way we have been all season: Driving forward and just keeping an eye in the rear view mirror.

CarlosMay'sThumb
09-11-2005, 10:23 AM
How is it an easier schedule for the Indians? They have 3 against OAK and 6 against the best team in the AL. That's almost half their remaining games.

Besides, "easy schedules" have a way of coming back to bite you. Remember last year when the Cubs were a shoo-in for a WC because of their "easy" September schedule?
I'm so sick and tired of hearing this "best team in the AL" thing. I know they have the best record, but the Sox haven't played like the best team in the AL in weeks, if not months. Do you really believe they are the best team in the AL today? They have a totally lopsided losing record against potential playoff teams.

Also, the Indians have 10 games against the WORST two teams in the AL (KC and TB) - and they truly are the two worst teams in the AL.

At this point, I think it's an absolute toss up who wins the division because of the much more favorable Indians schedule, the way the Sox have played since the ASB and the 6 head-to-head games left. Also, I think the Twins are licking their chops to bring down the Sox during their 7 games left. The only thing working in the Sox favor is their 6 1/2 game lead.

Jurr
09-11-2005, 10:35 AM
How is it an easier schedule for the Indians? They have 3 against OAK and 6 against the best team in the AL. That's almost half their remaining games.

Besides, "easy schedules" have a way of coming back to bite you. Remember last year when the Cubs were a shoo-in for a WC because of their "easy" September schedule?
Dude, I have always loved the way you think. Exactly. They have to play their papas 6 more times. In case anyone hasn't seen the head-to-head records vs. Cleveland, you might want to do some research. We're not the Twins. We're not the Tigers. We're not the Royals. We're the ******* White Sox. Cleveland's in for a rude awakening if they don't remember their place in the food chain.

starboy0
09-11-2005, 11:07 AM
It all boils down to one thing: the 6 games we have with Cleveland.

That is our ace in the hole. Cleveland has been winning wicked and shows no sign of coming back to earth. We can't depend at all on other teams beating them.

We must beat them ourselves. This will decide the central division.

Come on, Sox! You can do it, lads!

MarySwiss
09-11-2005, 11:08 AM
I'm so sick and tired of hearing this "best team in the AL" thing. I know they have the best record, but the Sox haven't played like the best team in the AL in weeks, if not months. Do you really believe they are the best team in the AL today? They have a totally lopsided losing record against potential playoff teams.

Also, the Indians have 10 games against the WORST two teams in the AL (KC and TB) - and they truly are the two worst teams in the AL.

At this point, I think it's an absolute toss up who wins the division because of the much more favorable Indians schedule, the way the Sox have played since the ASB and the 6 head-to-head games left. Also, I think the Twins are licking their chops to bring down the Sox during their 7 games left. The only thing working in the Sox favor is their 6 1/2 game lead.

Let's see, TB and KC have the worst records in the AL, so they're the worst teams; the Sox have the best record in the AL, but they're not the best team.

Got it. :rolleyes:

Ol' No. 2
09-11-2005, 11:15 AM
Let's see, TB and KC have the worst records in the AL, so they're the worst teams; the Sox have the best record in the AL, but they're not the best team.

Got it. :rolleyes:Not to mention that the Sox also have 3 against KC and 4 against DET. Last time they played 7 against these two teams they won 6.

WhiteSox12482
09-11-2005, 11:26 AM
Also, I think the Twins are licking their chops to bring down the Sox during their 7 games left. The only thing working in the Sox favor is their 6 1/2 game lead.

From Indians Manager after yesterday's win: "We might be seven or so up on them, but we're still seven or eight in back of the White Sox, so we've still got work to do."

fusillirob1983
09-11-2005, 11:29 AM
They have a totally lopsided losing record against potential playoff teams.

That's not true at all.

Let's use the Phil Rogers method.

The Sox are 22-22 combined against the Oakland, LAA, Yankees, Red Sox, and Indians. You can argue that almost half those wins are against the Indians (10). Go ahead and take that out. Then it's 12-19. Then take out their record against the A's (who have the toughest schedule and are currently a couple games out of the wildcard). That puts them at 10-12.

That's almost .500, which I know isn't good, but the playoffs have proven to be random the past 3 years anyway. This method, just like Phil Rogers', doesn't have much behind it.

However, 22-22 against all the contenders is .500, still proving to be random.

Ol' No. 2
09-11-2005, 11:32 AM
That's not true at all.

Let's use the Phil Rogers method.

The Sox are 22-22 combined against the Oakland, LAA, Yankees, Red Sox, and Indians. You can argue that almost half those wins are against the Indians (10). Go ahead and take that out. Then it's 12-19. Then take out their record against the A's (who have the toughest schedule and are currently a couple games out of the wildcard). That puts them at 10-12.

That's almost .500, which I know isn't good, but the playoffs have proven to be random the past 3 years anyway. This method, just like Phil Rogers', doesn't have much behind it.

However, 22-22 against all the contenders is .500, still proving to be random.Stop confusing the issue with facts.

CarlosMay'sThumb
09-11-2005, 03:30 PM
That's not true at all.

Let's use the Phil Rogers method.

The Sox are 22-22 combined against the Oakland, LAA, Yankees, Red Sox, and Indians. You can argue that almost half those wins are against the Indians (10). Go ahead and take that out. Then it's 12-19. Then take out their record against the A's (who have the toughest schedule and are currently a couple games out of the wildcard). That puts them at 10-12.

That's almost .500, which I know isn't good, but the playoffs have proven to be random the past 3 years anyway. This method, just like Phil Rogers', doesn't have much behind it.

However, 22-22 against all the contenders is .500, still proving to be random.
I have to admit I didn't include the Indians in my calculations - but you can't take the A's out of the equation. 12-19 is a totally lopsided record. 22-22 still doesn't make them anywhere near the "best team in the AL" which was my original point.

DSpivack
09-11-2005, 03:54 PM
From Indians Manager after yesterday's win: "We might be seven or so up on them, but we're still seven or eight in back of the White Sox, so we've still got work to do."

Going for the division or the wild card, there is no difference. Either way the goal is to win.

MarySwiss
09-11-2005, 03:55 PM
I have to admit I didn't include the Indians in my calculations - but you can't take the A's out of the equation. 12-19 is a totally lopsided record. 22-22 still doesn't make them anywhere near the "best team in the AL" which was my original point.

Okay, fine. So let's not take anything out of the equation--including the A's, the Indians and the one-run games. Okay, 12-19 is lopsided and 22-22 is middle of the pack. Meanwhile, the Yankees are something like 8-14 against Tampa Bay and KC, your two worst teams. (That could also be considered somewhat lopsided.) Does that mean the Yankees are among the worst teams in baseball? Of course not. Because you don't win games, or divisions, or championships on paper.

Plus, as we all know, once the postseason starts, all these equations and records mean precisely nothing. That's why we can't just assume we'd ride roughshod over Cleveland in the playoffs. Or that LA or Oakland would ride roughshod over us.

We'll just have to see how it plays out. And the bottom line is: as long as we have the best record in the AL, we're the best team in the AL.

fusillirob1983
09-11-2005, 04:07 PM
I have to admit I didn't include the Indians in my calculations - but you can't take the A's out of the equation. 12-19 is a totally lopsided record. 22-22 still doesn't make them anywhere near the "best team in the AL" which was my original point.

You still haven't proven who is the "best team in the AL" though. As Mary Swiss just pointed out, these numbers don't mean anything in the postseason.

I agree 12-19 is lopsided. The Sox have been terrible against the A's for 5 years and we all know that.

22-15 looks pretty good though (all those teams minus the A's and plus the Indians). That record means about as much as including the A's but not including the Indians.

CarlosMay'sThumb
09-11-2005, 04:25 PM
Let's see, TB and KC have the worst records in the AL, so they're the worst teams; the Sox have the best record in the AL, but they're not the best team.

Got it. :rolleyes:
TB and KC are the worst teams in the AL because they play like the worst teams in the AL not just because they have the worst records.

I don't think anybody, except the most deluded Sox fan, thinks the White Sox are the best team in the AL.

CarlosMay'sThumb
09-11-2005, 04:29 PM
You still haven't proven who is the "best team in the AL" though. As Mary Swiss just pointed out, these numbers don't mean anything in the postseason.

I agree 12-19 is lopsided. The Sox have been terrible against the A's for 5 years and we all know that.

22-15 looks pretty good though (all those teams minus the A's and plus the Indians). That record means about as much as including the A's but not including the Indians.
I don't think there is any way to "prove" who is the best team in the AL. I just think that the Sox played like the best team in the AL for the first half of the season and since then have played like a team that would be the underdog against any opponent in the first round.

CHISOXFAN13
09-11-2005, 04:33 PM
TB and KC are the worst teams in the AL because they play like the worst teams in the AL not just because they have the worst records.

I don't think anybody, except the most deluded Sox fan, thinks the White Sox are the best team in the AL.

You obviously have failed to realize how well Tampa has played in the second half.

santo=dorf
09-11-2005, 04:37 PM
TB and KC are the worst teams in the AL because they play like the worst teams in the AL not just because they have the worst records.

I don't think anybody, except the most deluded Sox fan, thinks the White Sox are the best team in the AL.
Tampa Bay hasn't played that badly since the All-Star break.

The Orioles have been one of the worst teams in the AL lately, but they don't favor your trollish argument, so you ignore them.

MarySwiss
09-11-2005, 05:03 PM
Carlos May's Thumb wrote:

TB and KC are the worst teams in the AL because they play like the worst teams in the AL not just because they have the worst records. I don't think anybody, except the most deluded Sox fan, thinks the White Sox are the best team in the AL.

And then he--or she, let's not assume!--wrote:
I don't think there is any way to "prove" who is the best team in the AL. I just think that the Sox played like the best team in the AL for the first half of the season and since then have played like a team that would be the underdog against any opponent in the first round.


Wow, I guess you sure told us deluded Sox fans off! I feel kind of like a bully arguing with a thumb, but what the hell! Except I cannot figure out which statement to argue with first, #1 or #2.

First though, let's consider your "most deluded Sox fan" remark. Wow, an insult! Last bastion of defense for someone whose position is indefensible. And may I remind you that this Web site is for Sox fans who are "totally biased and completely unobjective?" If you think that's the same as deluded, fine. That is your opinion.

Meanwhile (Statement #1) you continue to assert that TB and KC are the worst "because they play like the worst." That may sound objective, but in real life, it's--once again--just your opinion. Reread my post about how the Yankees are 8-14 against them.

In Statement #2, you at least come right out and admit that the opinions you present are just that--opinions. That I respect.

However, my point is that you cannot willy-nilly just pull numbers out of--er, thin air, call the whole thing an equation, and pretend that it is in any way a reliable predictor of future events. (Unless you write for the Tribune, that is.)

Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. Even deluded Sox fans. But please don't try to pass them off as facts. Because they're not.

infohawk
09-11-2005, 05:10 PM
I'm not saying it's the series of the year, but it could go long way for our White Sox if Oakland takes 2 out of 3. It would help us if they did. That's all, plus a lot of teams vested interest, I'm pretty sure the Yankees will be pulling hard for Oakland.

It's sort of a win-win for us. Clearly it helps the Sox the most if Oakland wins the series with respect to winning the central division. Even if the Indians were to sweep the A's, the Sox would benefit in the event the Tribe were to eventually overcome us and relegate us to the wildcard. I want and expect to win the division, but if we don't then our chief competitors would be the Yankees and A's. I take comfort in having a decent division lead and lead over every wildcard team.

All that said, I'll be rooting hard for Oakland to sweep!!!

CarlosMay'sThumb
09-11-2005, 05:29 PM
Carlos May's Thumb wrote:

TB and KC are the worst teams in the AL because they play like the worst teams in the AL not just because they have the worst records. I don't think anybody, except the most deluded Sox fan, thinks the White Sox are the best team in the AL.

And then he--or she, let's not assume!--wrote:
I don't think there is any way to "prove" who is the best team in the AL. I just think that the Sox played like the best team in the AL for the first half of the season and since then have played like a team that would be the underdog against any opponent in the first round.


Wow, I guess you sure told us deluded Sox fans off! I feel kind of like a bully arguing with a thumb, but what the hell! Except I cannot figure out which statement to argue with first, #1 or #2.

First though, let's consider your "most deluded Sox fan" remark. Wow, an insult! Last bastion of defense for someone whose position is indefensible. And may I remind you that this Web site is for Sox fans who are "totally biased and completely unobjective?" If you think that's the same as deluded, fine. That is your opinion.

Meanwhile (Statement #1) you continue to assert that TB and KC are the worst "because they play like the worst." That may sound objective, but in real life, it's--once again--just your opinion. Reread my post about how the Yankees are 8-14 against them.

In Statement #2, you at least come right out and admit that the opinions you present are just that--opinions. That I respect.

However, my point is that you cannot willy-nilly just pull numbers out of--er, thin air, call the whole thing an equation, and pretend that it is in any way a reliable predictor of future events. (Unless you write for the Tribune, that is.)

Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. Even deluded Sox fans. But please don't try to pass them off as facts. Because they're not.

Do you think that if the season ended today, the Sox would be favored to win a series against any of the likely playoff contenders. Maybe the Indians, maybe the Yankees - but if I had to guess, (again no way to "prove")I would say neither. They would be the underdog against the Red Sox, Angels and A's. Therefore, they are not the "best team in the AL".

The fact that the Devil Rays have some sort of cosmic control over the Yankees and virtually nobody else, does not make them a good team - not even close.

And yes, I believe you would have to be deluded, biased and totally unobjective to think the Sox are the "best team in the AL" on 9/11/05.

Ol' No. 2
09-11-2005, 06:42 PM
Do you think that if the season ended today, the Sox would be favored to win a series against any of the likely playoff contenders. Maybe the Indians, maybe the Yankees - but if I had to guess, (again no way to "prove")I would say neither. They would be the underdog against the Red Sox, Angels and A's. Therefore, they are not the "best team in the AL".

The fact that the Devil Rays have some sort of cosmic control over the Yankees and virtually nobody else, does not make them a good team - not even close.

And yes, I believe you would have to be deluded, biased and totally unobjective to think the Sox are the "best team in the AL" on 9/11/05.The Sox would not have been favored at any point in the season. Who gives a rat's ass who would be favored? The favored team almost always loses.

kaufsox
09-11-2005, 07:05 PM
The only way to determine who is the best team in the AL is to have some kind of tournament, a post-season if you will. Come about October 25, we'll all know who the best team is, and I'll be $250 richer... :cool:

chisoxfanatic
09-11-2005, 07:21 PM
In light of the discussion of the Tribe's "much easier schedule," and that some might think they can catch us in the standings, chew on the following to help settle yourself down...

The Sox currently have six more games left with Cleveland. Their current magic number to eliminate Cleveland and win the AL Central is 15. Each Sox victory over Cleveland knocks two off that magic number. If our Sox go 3-3 against Cleveland in those 6 games (I don't see any worse), you can subtract 6 from the magic number. That means that we're talking about a single-digit adjusted magic number. We would only need a combination of NINE Sox wins and Cleveland losses to win the division. If Cleveland can lose only four more of their remaining games outside of the six we play them, and our Sox can win five more, I am highly confident the division will be won.

Just one more thought: As long as our divisional lead remains higher than the number of games left against Cleveland, the Tribe cannot even *think* of winning the division without "outside" help.

Our Sox control their own destiny. And they WON'T choke it away!!!

PAPChiSox729
09-11-2005, 07:27 PM
In light of the discussion of the Tribe's "much easier schedule," and that some might think they can catch us in the standings, chew on the following to help settle yourself down...

The Sox currently have six more games left with Cleveland. Their current magic number to eliminate Cleveland and win the AL Central is 15. Each Sox victory over Cleveland knocks two off that magic number. If our Sox go 3-3 against Cleveland in those 6 games (I don't see any worse), you can subtract 6 from the magic number. That means that we're talking about a single-digit magic number. We would only need a combination of NINE Sox wins and Cleveland losses to win the division. If Cleveland can lose only four more of their remaining games outside of the six we play them, and our Sox can win five more, the division will be won.

Just one more thought: As long as our divisional lead remains higher than the number of games left against Cleveland, the Tribe cannot even *think* of winning the division without "outside" help.

Our Sox control their own destiny. And they WON'T choke it away!!!

Great post. I was just thinking the same thing. For Cleveland to pass us up, they would have to dominate us in those 6 games against us. Even going 3-3 would hurt there chances for the division considerably. We'll be fine. Go Sox!
:bandance:

Chips
09-11-2005, 07:35 PM
Great post. I was just thinking the same thing. For Cleveland to pass us up, they would have to dominate us in those 6 games against us. Even going 3-3 would hurt there chances for the division considerably. We'll be fine. Go Sox!
:bandance:

I agree with that 100%, we are winning this damn division. It make take a little longer than expected, but we are going to be the 2005 AL Central Division Champs, and hopefully 2005 World Series Champs as well.

WhiteSox12482
09-11-2005, 08:43 PM
Hey Infohawk, Thanks for the reply about the Oakland Series, In way our enemies might be our best friends, because they too are now in a position to win. Cleveland is up 11-2 now, it doesn't look good. Has any of your thought, that these teams are purposely throwing the games to the Indians? You can say a lot has to do with it, but I know Silva and Mays are two decent starters and each pitched one inning and one gave up 4 runs and the other 6 runs and then Santana leaves the game with a broken fingernail? I mean this is all very questionable, I know a lot of you say if the Sox won this and if Cora didn't send him home? But look at the AL Central, they have just died with Indians reaping all the Benefits. I mean it's just werid, if Minnesota puts out the B Squad for the triba and A squad for the White Sox I will be:angry:. The White Sox will now have to contend with only 5.5 game lead. The series with Oakland and Cleveland is now even more important. To think if the A's sweep and White Sox sweep we are back to an 8.5 game lead and no worries, if it goes the other way the White Sox get swept and the Tribe sweeps the A's our lead is down to 2.5. So they better buckle up and get ready, this week is very important the maintain the lead right where it is at.

Go White Sox,

CarlosMay'sThumb
09-11-2005, 08:44 PM
In light of the discussion of the Tribe's "much easier schedule," and that some might think they can catch us in the standings, chew on the following to help settle yourself down...

The Sox currently have six more games left with Cleveland. Their current magic number to eliminate Cleveland and win the AL Central is 15. Each Sox victory over Cleveland knocks two off that magic number. If our Sox go 3-3 against Cleveland in those 6 games (I don't see any worse), you can subtract 6 from the magic number. That means that we're talking about a single-digit adjusted magic number. We would only need a combination of NINE Sox wins and Cleveland losses to win the division. If Cleveland can lose only four more of their remaining games outside of the six we play them, and our Sox can win five more, I am highly confident the division will be won.

Just one more thought: As long as our divisional lead remains higher than the number of games left against Cleveland, the Tribe cannot even *think* of winning the division without "outside" help.

Our Sox control their own destiny. And they WON'T choke it away!!!
Geez - after reading that I now feel worse. The lead is now less than the "number of games left against Cleveland".

Again, no objective person could look at the six games left with Cleveland and think the Sox will do "no worse" than win 3. How do you figure that with the way each of these teams have been playing recently? It may happen, but I would be thrilled and very surprised if the Sox win 3.

MarySwiss
09-11-2005, 08:45 PM
Do you think that if the season ended today, the Sox would be favored to win a series against any of the likely playoff contenders. Maybe the Indians, maybe the Yankees - but if I had to guess, (again no way to "prove")I would say neither. They would be the underdog against the Red Sox, Angels and A's. Therefore, they are not the "best team in the AL".
The fact that the Devil Rays have some sort of cosmic control over the Yankees and virtually nobody else, does not make them a good team - not even close.
And yes, I believe you would have to be deluded, biased and totally unobjective to think the Sox are the "best team in the AL" on 9/11/05.

The Sox would not have been favored at any point in the season. Who gives a rat's ass who would be favored? The favored team almost always loses.

No fair, Ol' No.2! You stole my answer! :D:

And as for you, Thumb, I'm gonna try this one more time. But it's the LAST TIME! (Geez, now I'm quoting "Rookie of the Year." Yikes!)

As usual, everything you said in your latest post is your opinion. None of it is grounded in fact. I have never said that your opinion is "deluded"; you said mine was. So please explain why, in that case, you are the one who is so defensive.

In my opinion--and if you check out the threads I am obviously not alone in this--the Sox ARE "the best team in the AL." What supports my opinion? The standings. What supports your opinion? Some more of your opinions. Sorry, doesn't cut it.

We can both opinionate until the cows come home, but here's the thing. This season will play out, and neither of us will have anything to do with the outcome.

So you can keep coming up with "equations" that "prove" you're right until you're blue in the face. But that won't change a thing. And when the smoke clears--in my opinion--the Sox will be the last team standing. If you're right, I'll admit I was wrong. But for some reason I doubt the opposite will be true.

Ol' No. 2
09-11-2005, 08:47 PM
Hey Infohawk, Thanks for the reply about the Oakland Series, In way our enemies might be our best friends, because they too are now in a position to win. Cleveland is up 11-2 now, it doesn't look good. Has any of your thought, that these teams are purposely throwing the games to the Indians? You can say a lot has to do with it, but I know Silva and Mays are two decent starters and each pitched one inning and one gave up 4 runs and the other 6 runs and then Santana leaves the game with a broken fingernail? I mean this is all very questionable, I know a lot of you say if the Sox won this and if Cora didn't send him home? But look at the AL Central, they have just died with Indians reaping all the Benefits. I mean it's just werid, if Minnesota puts out the B Squad for the triba and A squad for the White Sox I will be:angry:. The White Sox will now have to contend with only 5.5 game lead. The series with Oakland and Cleveland is now even more important. To think if the A's sweep and White Sox sweep we are back to an 8.5 game lead and no worries, if it goes the other way the White Sox get swept and the Tribe sweeps the A's our lead is down to 2.5. So they better buckle up and get ready, this week is very important the maintain the lead right where it is at.

Go White Sox,Nah. The lack of run support has finally gotten into the Twins' pitchers' heads. Radke is suicidal and Lohse is bashing in doors. It was bound to happen. They have a look of a team that is playing out the string. We know that look all too well. And they still took 2 of 3 from the Toons last weekend.

santo=dorf
09-11-2005, 08:53 PM
Geez - after reading that I now feel worse. The lead is now less than the "number of games left against Cleveland".

Again, no objective person could look at the six games left with Cleveland and think the Sox will do "no worse" than win 3. How do you figure that with the way each of these teams have been playing recently? It may happen, but I would be thrilled and very surprised if the Sox win 3.

Do you work for ESPN?
The Sox are 10-3 against the Indians this season. Look at the success Buehrle, Garcia, and Contreras have had against the Indians throughout their career. Go ahead *******, look at their numbers.

The Sox have 6 games remaining against Cleveland (who are 3-10 against us this year, because had the Sox have 6 games remaining with the A's, we all know your :dtroll: ass wouldn't stop talking about their record against us,) but Cleveland is 6 games behind in the lost column.

Why is it you only post when the Sox are playing badly? I thought the Sox were done for after the 1 hit loss. :rolleyes:

WhiteSox12482
09-11-2005, 08:54 PM
In light of the discussion of the Tribe's "much easier schedule," and that some might think they can catch us in the standings, chew on the following to help settle yourself down...

The Sox currently have six more games left with Cleveland. Their current magic number to eliminate Cleveland and win the AL Central is 15. Each Sox victory over Cleveland knocks two off that magic number. If our Sox go 3-3 against Cleveland in those 6 games (I don't see any worse), you can subtract 6 from the magic number. That means that we're talking about a single-digit adjusted magic number. We would only need a combination of NINE Sox wins and Cleveland losses to win the division. If Cleveland can lose only four more of their remaining games outside of the six we play them, and our Sox can win five more, I am highly confident the division will be won.

Just one more thought: As long as our divisional lead remains higher than the number of games left against Cleveland, the Tribe cannot even *think* of winning the division without "outside" help.

Our Sox control their own destiny. And they WON'T choke it away!!!

The White Sox are slowly losing control have thier destiny, they need come out tuesday and send a message, they need to send the message like they did in the 1st half to the central, we don't care who you are, we are better, faster, stronger, and smarter than you now get out of the way so we can win this thing. Lately they have been getting leads, the starters just don't hold them. They need another winning streak, then they can go and talk about taking three from Cleveland. White Sox just have to take it one series at a time. More important that they don't overlook the Twins this weekend. They will be looking forward to the Indians and it's easy to overlook them. I'm confident too that we will win the Central. It's going to come down to last week. I remember the Indians did this Minnesota last year. They got to within one game, the the twins took 2 out of 3 and the Indians fell. Who knows what is going to happen this year? I will watch them on Tuesday against KC and root my heart out.

chisoxfanatic
09-11-2005, 08:56 PM
Geez - after reading that I now feel worse. The lead is now less than the "number of games left against Cleveland".

Again, no objective person could look at the six games left with Cleveland and think the Sox will do "no worse" than win 3. How do you figure that with the way each of these teams have been playing recently? It may happen, but I would be thrilled and very surprised if the Sox win 3.

Oh, brother... :rolleyes:

:darkclouds:

WhiteSox12482
09-11-2005, 09:00 PM
Hey Guys,
The last time the Indians were swept along with last time they had a losing streak was August 12-14 the good news, it was the D-Rays that swept them. I think they are due. We'll find out tommrow when they play Oakland. It's actually a team playing for something

CarlosMay'sThumb
09-11-2005, 09:00 PM
If you're right, I'll admit I was wrong. But for some reason I doubt the opposite will be true.
If you're right I'll be very happy I was wrong and I'll admit it.

Believe me, it's not that I don't understand what you're saying about counting games from April and May and June. I'm just looking at the way the team has played recently. I've already said that they were the best team in baseball at one time this year. I just can't believe that you can objectively look at the playoff contenders right now and say the Sox are the best team out there.

Sorry.

WhiteSox12482
09-11-2005, 09:02 PM
:wink: Oh, brother... :rolleyes:

:darkclouds:
Dark clouds will give a way to sunshine in my forecast. this might be like this summer, where the dark clouds might stay away for about two to three weeks!:D:

MarySwiss
09-11-2005, 09:06 PM
I just can't believe that you can objectively look at the playoff contenders right now and say the Sox are the best team out there.

They are until they're not. Their record in the AL says so. And I'm tired of saying so.

Good night.

infohawk
09-11-2005, 09:10 PM
The "magic number" in my head is 10. If the Sox get to 97 wins, and they should, they will be in really good shape to make the playoffs.

Jurr
09-11-2005, 09:13 PM
And yes, I believe you would have to be deluded, biased and totally unobjective to think the Sox are the "best team in the AL" on 9/11/05.

You need to read the WSI mission statement. Period.

I also have a great idea.

Tune out the Sox for about three weeks. Get lost in a new hobby, such as needlepoint or possibly a street corner magic act. Let us watch our "not best team in the AL" wrap up the division in a couple of weeks.

Those of us that have been here a long time have coped with Sox blunders together for at least a few years. We know that this team is a little different than the gutless clubs that we've had in years past. When it's time to play and it really matters, this team seems to come out and get the job done. Until that is proven to be different, that's what we'll believe.

Ozzie's going to have his A lineup going down the stretch. The pitching will get it together, and all will be fine. Now, I don't know what's going to happen in the playoffs, but we'll deal with that when it gets here.

The best thing that could have happened to this team is to be smacked in the mouth and thrown into a pennant race. Would you rather see the team sleepwalk through September with a division crown and blow it in the playoffs like 2000??? I sure as hell wouldn't. This is going to force the Sox to play focused ball the rest of the way and get into playoff mode before October gets here. You can't write it up any better.

The ultimate goal for us fans is to see the Sox get to and win the World Series. Period. Anything else is going to be called disappointing. Post game threads after losses around here won't be happy. Nobody's going to say, "Damn, I'm just glad they got to the series and got swept."
So, with that thinking, the Sox have to show their stuff now. If they aren't good enough now and choke away a division and playoff berth, then they weren't going to be good enough in the playoffs anyway. They wouldn't have won a world series, which is what we ultimately want. However, if they get in big game mode now and win, it's going to help them in October.

In summary, sit back and let things play out. Don't knock our ball club. We're just happy we don't have to see Terry Bevington, Jerry Manuel, Billy Koch, Rick White, or any of those other schmucks screw up this team. We're happy that we have an exciting September and possibly October to think about. And, until someone has a better record than we do in the AL, we ARE the best team.

Tell me how the needlepoint goes. You have until October 2 to practice.

MarySwiss
09-11-2005, 09:17 PM
You need to read the WSI mission statement. Period.

I also have a great idea.

Tune out the Sox for about three weeks. Get lost in a new hobby, such as needlepoint or possibly a street corner magic act. Let us watch our "not best team in the AL" wrap up the division in a couple of weeks.

Those of us that have been here a long time have coped with Sox blunders together for at least a few years. We know that this team is a little different than the gutless clubs that we've had in years past. When it's time to play and it really matters, this team seems to come out and get the job done. Until that is proven to be different, that's what we'll believe.

Ozzie's going to have his A lineup going down the stretch. The pitching will get it together, and all will be fine. Now, I don't know what's going to happen in the playoffs, but we'll deal with that when it gets here.

The best thing that could have happened to this team is to be smacked in the mouth and thrown into a pennant race. Would you rather see the team sleepwalk through September with a division crown and blow it in the playoffs like 2000??? I sure as hell wouldn't. This is going to force the Sox to play focused ball the rest of the way and get into playoff mode before October gets here. You can't write it up any better.

The ultimate goal for us fans is to see the Sox get to and win the World Series. Period. Anything else is going to be called disappointing. Post game threads after losses around here won't be happy. Nobody's going to say, "Damn, I'm just glad they got to the series and got swept."
So, with that thinking, the Sox have to show their stuff now. If they aren't good enough now and choke away a division and playoff berth, then they weren't going to be good enough in the playoffs anyway. They wouldn't have won a world series, which is what we ultimately want. However, if they get in big game mode now and win, it's going to help them in October.

In summary, sit back and let things play out. Don't knock our ball club. We're just happy we don't have to see Terry Bevington, Jerry Manuel, Billy Koch, Rick White, or any of those other schmucks screw up this team. We're happy that we have an exciting September and possibly October to think about. And, until someone has a better record than we do in the AL, we ARE the best team.

Tell me how the needlepoint goes. You have until October 2 to practice.

Jurr, you did it again! Great post!

CarlosMay'sThumb
09-11-2005, 09:17 PM
They are until they're not. Their record in the AL says so. And I'm tired of saying so.

Good night.
I'll try some objective facts - I know it won't work, but I'll try.

I divided the season up to this point into 2 halves. On June 21, the Sox were 47/22 and the Indians were 37/31. Currently they are 87/55 and 81/61. That means the Sox played 25 games over .500 for the first half and the Indians played 6 over. For the second half the Sox have played 7 over .500 and the Indians have played 15 games over .500.

Which team is the better team today? The team that dominated the first half or the team that has dominated the second half? It can't possibly be that simply because the Sox dominated the first half more than the Indians dominated the second half that the Sox will always be the best team.

It's not to say that the Sox are a bad team - it's just to say that simply looking at the overall record without considering their current play is a mistake.

Ol' No. 2
09-11-2005, 09:21 PM
You need to read the WSI mission statement. Period.

I also have a great idea.

Tune out the Sox for about three weeks. Get lost in a new hobby, such as needlepoint or possibly a street corner magic act. Let us watch our "not best team in the AL" wrap up the division in a couple of weeks.

Those of us that have been here a long time have coped with Sox blunders together for at least a few years. We know that this team is a little different than the gutless clubs that we've had in years past. When it's time to play and it really matters, this team seems to come out and get the job done. Until that is proven to be different, that's what we'll believe.

Ozzie's going to have his A lineup going down the stretch. The pitching will get it together, and all will be fine. Now, I don't know what's going to happen in the playoffs, but we'll deal with that when it gets here.

The best thing that could have happened to this team is to be smacked in the mouth and thrown into a pennant race. Would you rather see the team sleepwalk through September with a division crown and blow it in the playoffs like 2000??? I sure as hell wouldn't. This is going to force the Sox to play focused ball the rest of the way and get into playoff mode before October gets here. You can't write it up any better.

The ultimate goal for us fans is to see the Sox get to and win the World Series. Period. Anything else is going to be called disappointing. Post game threads after losses around here won't be happy. Nobody's going to say, "Damn, I'm just glad they got to the series and got swept."
So, with that thinking, the Sox have to show their stuff now. If they aren't good enough now and choke away a division and playoff berth, then they weren't going to be good enough in the playoffs anyway. They wouldn't have won a world series, which is what we ultimately want. However, if they get in big game mode now and win, it's going to help them in October.

In summary, sit back and let things play out. Don't knock our ball club. We're just happy we don't have to see Terry Bevington, Jerry Manuel, Billy Koch, Rick White, or any of those other schmucks screw up this team. We're happy that we have an exciting September and possibly October to think about. And, until someone has a better record than we do in the AL, we ARE the best team.

Tell me how the needlepoint goes. You have until October 2 to practice.Remember a month or so ago when all the dark clouds had their sphincters out of control worrying that the Sox would cruise into the playoffs with a 15 game lead and get swept because they didn't have their edge? :roflmao:

If they're crapping their pants now, how are they going to get through the playoffs?

Jurr
09-11-2005, 09:27 PM
I'll try some objective facts - I know it won't work, but I'll try.

I divided the season up to this point into 2 halves. On June 21, the Sox were 47/22 and the Indians were 37/31. Currently they are 87/55 and 81/61. That means the Sox played 25 games over .500 for the first half and the Indians played 6 over. For the second half the Sox have played 7 over .500 and the Indians have played 15 games over .500.

Which team is the better team today? The team that dominated the first half or the team that has dominated the second half? It can't possibly be that simply because the Sox dominated the first half more than the Indians dominated the second half that the Sox will always be the best team.

It's not to say that the Sox are a bad team - it's just to say that simply looking at the overall record without considering their current play is a mistake.
When you have an absolutely ridiculous lead, it's human nature to coast. They've been coasting. The focus hasn't been there. It's not rocket science, pal. When the Sox have really needed to turn the jets back on, they have. (See the 7 game winning streak...what was it...5 days ago? Shouldn't be too hard to recall.)
The Sox have lapsed, yes, but they win when they've gotta. They don't need to win every day to keep you off the ledge. They need to win enough games to get into the playoffs. During the regular season, they have been the best team in the AL. That won't be questioned until A.)someone overtakes their record or B.) Someone else wins the AL pennant. I can't see it any more objectively than that.

Jurr
09-11-2005, 09:31 PM
Remember a month or so ago when all the dark clouds had their sphincters out of control worrying that the Sox would cruise into the playoffs with a 15 game lead and get swept because they didn't have their edge? :roflmao:

If they're crapping their pants now, how are they going to get through the playoffs?
Exactly. Keep the sharp objects away, right? There's some of us that hear the name Juan Guzman and still get very pissed off. I'm afraid that some of the people on this site may go absolutely unhinged if something gets tight in the playoffs.

CarlosMay'sThumb
09-11-2005, 09:33 PM
When you have an absolutely ridiculous lead, it's human nature to coast. They've been coasting. The focus hasn't been there.
It seems to me that Ol No 2 was laughing pretty hard at this same argument one post above yours.

Ol' No. 2
09-11-2005, 09:38 PM
It seems to me that Ol No 2 was laughing pretty hard at this same argument one post above yours.Actually, I was laughing at people who have no perspective and think that the whole season is determined by one small stretch of games. It's a 162 game season. No other sport comes anywhere close to that. Over that time teams have hot streaks and cold streaks. But over the long season, the cream rises to the top. To think that a team is good or bad based only on their most recent streak is...:kukoo:

CarlosMay'sThumb
09-11-2005, 09:44 PM
Actually, I was laughing at people who have no perspective and think that the whole season is determined by one small stretch of games.
One small stretch of games? How about 1/2 the currently played games? 70 games are not enough to at least question whether the Sox are the best team in the AL?

PaleHoseGeorge
09-11-2005, 09:50 PM
CarlosMaysThumb will be banned on the day the Sox clinch.

No guts, no glory, dumbass.

I can hardly wait.

:cool:

Jurr
09-11-2005, 09:53 PM
CarlosMaysThumb will be banned on the day the Sox clinch.

No guts, no glory, dumbass.

I can hardly wait.

:cool:
:supernana:
:hawk "I love it when you conceptualize!"

Ol' No. 2
09-11-2005, 09:55 PM
One small stretch of games? How about 1/2 the currently played games? 70 games are not enough to at least question whether the Sox are the best team in the AL?You can play fun with numbers all you want, but here are the facts. The Sox' biggest lead was August 1 at 15 games. They were 69-35 (.663 winpct). The Sox are 7-4 in September (.636 winpct). How, exactly are they so much worse now than they were for the first four months of the season?:?: The Indians are a grand total of 2 games better in September, so it escapes me how one can say they're SO MUCH better right now, especially when you consider the difference in teams they're playing.

Essentially all of the Cleveland gains came in August when the Sox had their slump. On Sept 1 it stood at 7.5 games. So the Toons have gained TWO GAMES in a little less than 2 weeks. There are three weeks left. Do the math.

CarlosMay'sThumb
09-11-2005, 09:56 PM
:troll
"See you in the funny papers!"

WhiteSox12482
09-12-2005, 10:39 AM
You can play fun with numbers all you want, but here are the facts. The Sox' biggest lead was August 1 at 15 games. They were 69-35 (.663 winpct). The Sox are 7-4 in September (.636 winpct). How, exactly are they so much worse now than they were for the first four months of the season?:?: The Indians are a grand total of 2 games better in September, so it escapes me how one can say they're SO MUCH better right now, especially when you consider the difference in teams they're playing.

Essentially all of the Cleveland gains came in August when the Sox had their slump. On Sept 1 it stood at 7.5 games. So the Toons have gained TWO GAMES in a little less than 2 weeks. There are three weeks left. Do the math.

I think many people are concerned with the remainder of thier schedule vs. ours. They have Oakland, KC, White Sox, Tampa
We have KC, Min, Cle, Detroit

They have to get ball rolling tommrow, my thing is if White Sox win there can no ground gained and a chance to lose another half-game if Cleveland loses. The Key is Winning. Plain and simple. It's reminding me of the movie "Major League". They came back from like 14 or 15 back. Especially since Vlad did the "Willie Mays Hays" move on Friday night. Just get back to winning games and all will be nice. Mainly the day off today is probably doing them wonders. They had the look of very tired team including the Pitching Staff. This day off will give the energy to win Central.

tstrike2000
09-12-2005, 11:01 AM
Dude, I have always loved the way you think. Exactly. They have to play their papas 6 more times. In case anyone hasn't seen the head-to-head records vs. Cleveland, you might want to do some research. We're not the Twins. We're not the Tigers. We're not the Royals. We're the ******* White Sox. Cleveland's in for a rude awakening if they don't remember their place in the food chain.

I agree with you, but the way we've hit in the last month with the exception of a few games during the Detroilet series, we've been playing like KC or the current Tigers team. None of the fire and picking up of other guys like the first half of the season. We just need that team to show up. But the question on everyone's mind is will they?

Jurr
09-12-2005, 07:13 PM
I agree with you, but the way we've hit in the last month with the exception of a few games during the Detroilet series, we've been playing like KC or the current Tigers team. None of the fire and picking up of other guys like the first half of the season. We just need that team to show up. But the question on everyone's mind is will they?
This is a team that has won all year when they've really had to. I expect no different.

Ol' No. 2
09-12-2005, 07:53 PM
I think many people are concerned with the remainder of thier schedule vs. ours. They have Oakland, KC, White Sox, Tampa
We have KC, Min, Cle, Detroit

They have to get ball rolling tommrow, my thing is if White Sox win there can no ground gained and a chance to lose another half-game if Cleveland loses. The Key is Winning. Plain and simple. It's reminding me of the movie "Major League". They came back from like 14 or 15 back. Especially since Vlad did the "Willie Mays Hays" move on Friday night. Just get back to winning games and all will be nice. Mainly the day off today is probably doing them wonders. They had the look of very tired team including the Pitching Staff. This day off will give the energy to win Central.Which would you rather have on your schedule, Oakland, KC and TB or KC, MIN and DET?

tstrike2000
09-12-2005, 07:58 PM
This is a team that has won all year when they've really had to. I expect no different.

Deep down I agree with you. You live as a team and die as a team. We will truly know come the first playoff series.

BeviBall!
09-12-2005, 09:24 PM
It got a hair easier...

:indianslose:

14!