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Fake Chet Lemon
09-09-2005, 11:42 AM
I was surprised to read in the CubBune today (9/9) that Ozzie was kicking McCarthy out of the rotation. El Duque seems to be running out of gas, I would have dropped him to the pen even with his playoff reputation. Or gone with a 6-man rotation to see how it played out. Ozzie is concerned about getting Buehrle or Garland the Cy-Young. Who cares about that? I want playoff success!

zmz723
09-09-2005, 11:57 AM
im sure ozzie has his reasons

Banix12
09-09-2005, 12:10 PM
I would be more suprised if he left him in the rotation.

Likely if Contreras keeps up his good play of late he has pitched he way into the playoff rotation since he would be the hot hand. McCarthy anyway had pretty much no shot at cracking a playoff rotation and his only shot at making the roster is as a reliever. So I have no problem with him getting a shot out of the pen to get used to it. Hopefully his scoreless inning streak will continue.

Randar68
09-09-2005, 12:12 PM
I was surprised to read in the CubBune today (9/9) that Ozzie was kicking McCarthy out of the rotation. El Duque seems to be running out of gas, I would have dropped him to the pen even with his playoff reputation. Or gone with a 6-man rotation to see how it played out. Ozzie is concerned about getting Buehrle or Garland the Cy-Young. Who cares about that? I want playoff success!

I agree. At this point, Contreras has to be the #4 pitcher in the playoffs and McCarthy just held the 2 best-hitting clubs in the AL to 0 runs over 14 2/3rd innings. Get El Duque rested and acclimated to coming out of the bullpen.

Unless Contreras really falters down the stretch, I'd go with Contreras without blinking.

Fake Chet Lemon
09-09-2005, 12:19 PM
I agree. At this point, Contreras has to be the #4 pitcher in the playoffs and McCarthy just held the 2 best-hitting clubs in the AL to 0 runs over 14 2/3rd innings. Get El Duque rested and acclimated to coming out of the bullpen.

Unless Contreras really falters down the stretch, I'd go with Contreras without blinking.


Yes, I think mentally El Duque has the makeup to possibly come out of the pen and be fearsome for a couple of innings. If he is wearing down at all, that would be better than asking him to go 7 innings. Will McCarthy scare anyone coming out of the pen? Asking a rookie to do something he has never done, in the playoffs doesn't seem wise.

Jenks4Pres
09-09-2005, 12:36 PM
I have no idea why Ozzie would do this. It makes absolutely no sense!

Fredsox
09-09-2005, 12:41 PM
The driving force here is clinching the division and getting ready for the playoffs. We have 10 games remaining at home and 13 on the road and these games are predominantly against the Angels, the Twins,and the Indians.

To paraphrase Hawk "who we gonna bench?" Do we sit Hernandez? Probably not too wise given his big-game experience and the preparation he might need for the playoffs. Any of the other 4? Not likely.

This just doesn't make sense based on 2 good starts out of the kid. He'll get his turn next year, but I think we need to dance with who we brought with us.

Mr. White Sox
09-09-2005, 12:45 PM
Anaheim didn't dance with what brought them there when they called up Francisco Rodriguez...

Believe you me, I think El Duque will be solid in the postseason; he's a rock. McCarthy, however, shut out two of the best hitting teams in baseball at their own ballparks. Continue to start him (just one or two more starts), and get El Duque ready for a probable bullpen stint in the playoffs (Contreras is the #4 at this point). Maybe you move McCarthy to the bullpen in the final week/week and a half to see how he'd do in that situation, as that's all he'd be used for. Resting El Duque seems like the top priority to me at this point, however. This, frankly, is a pretty dumb move by Ozzie.

Then again, I'm no manager, and we'll just have to see how this works out. If he's right, good for him. If he's wrong, the fans/media get to pounce on him. Ah, the beauty of being a manager.

crazyozzie02
09-09-2005, 12:50 PM
Three Simple Words: THIS IS CRAP!!!!

TomBradley72
09-09-2005, 01:00 PM
No big deal to me....for the post season I rank the starters as: Buehrle, Garland, Contreras and Garcia. El Duque and Brandon are part of the pen (along with Jenks, Hermie, Marte, Cotts, Politte and Vizcaino). Maybe a spot start for either El Duque or McCarthy based on a very specific match up or scenario. On a side note...I think all of the "getting used to coming out of the pen" stuff is overrated...they are pros they've been pitching almost their whole lives...they can make the adjustment for a few weeks.

Two great starts bodes well for BMac's career....not sure I want him on the hill ahead of the four I listed.

Dolanski
09-09-2005, 01:16 PM
Ozzie said he didn't want to go to a six man rotation because he didn't want to hurt Buerhle's or Garland's chances at a Cy Young. I like McCarthy, I think he is important for the playoffs, but I agree with the Oz, he's had two good outings and now everyone is calling him Cy Young.

Tekijawa
09-09-2005, 01:45 PM
I didn't know that McCarthy was "in the rotation" to begin with? Isn't this the equivalent of Saying that Timo won't be starting in the outfield anymore? (No, I guess that would be much better news)

munchman33
09-09-2005, 01:45 PM
For the rest of the season and playoffs, this is not really an issue. With days off, I don't see the sox using more than four starters in any of the rounds. El Duque can finish the season as a starter, which isn't terrible and prevents a veteran tantrum. McCarthy has a chance still to earn a spot in the bullpen for the playoffs.

The debate to start McCarthy over El Duque shouldn't start until next spring.

Fake Chet Lemon
09-09-2005, 01:48 PM
Ozzie said he didn't want to go to a six man rotation because he didn't want to hurt Buerhle's or Garland's chances at a Cy Young. I like McCarthy, I think he is important for the playoffs, but I agree with the Oz, he's had two good outings and now everyone is calling him Cy Young.

Not sure who called him Cy Young??? But who cares if Buehrle or Garland win a Cy Young? If we are 20 games out, yes then go for it. Loiaza almost won it recently, did that change your life? Winning a World Series- There is a life changer. That should be the goal, not individual awards. The individual awards will come naturally with TEAM success anyway.

Infallible
09-09-2005, 01:50 PM
El Duque and Contreras are old men. They may have had moderate sucess in the past but we need to look at the present. McCarthy gets the nod.

TaylorStSox
09-09-2005, 01:52 PM
The people that are angry about this probably thought BMac wasn't even much of a prospect 2 weeks ago.

SoxWatch
09-09-2005, 02:10 PM
I was surprised to read in the CubBune today (9/9) that Ozzie was kicking McCarthy out of the rotation. El Duque seems to be running out of gas, I would have dropped him to the pen even with his playoff reputation. Or gone with a 6-man rotation to see how it played out. Ozzie is concerned about getting Buehrle or Garland the Cy-Young. Who cares about that? I want playoff success!

The reason is you have to stick with what got you there. Ozzie knows this and hes right. While McCarthy has been great recently you have to let the guys who worked so hard to make it have their shot. McCarthy will be there probably backing up whichever pitcher needs help of stumles eariler. He made the right decision and respecfully so.

fquaye149
09-09-2005, 02:22 PM
Not sure who called him Cy Young??? But who cares if Buehrle or Garland win a Cy Young? If we are 20 games out, yes then go for it. Loiaza almost won it recently, did that change your life? Winning a World Series- There is a life changer. That should be the goal, not individual awards. The individual awards will come naturally with TEAM success anyway.

Are you serious about this post?

a.) We're not really in any sort of playoff jeopardy

b.) Even if you think we are, a six-man rotation won't HELP us. BMAC had 2 good outings. He also had two AWFUL outing earlier in the season. He's a rookie. Why in the world would we want to insert him in the rotation in September?

c.) Anything gained for next year by getting BMAC experience would be lost in the playoffs by letting Duque get cold.

d.) You honestly think there's any way barring very very extenuating circumstances that would see McCarthy starting a playoff game?


And as far as you not caring about the Cy Young...that's fine. I do sort of care about it, but not as much as I care about the team. However I know two people who probably care a great deal about the Cy Young - Buehrle and Garland. Ozzie is trying to reward them for having great seasons by giving them the chance to compete for pitching's highest honor. Did you miss that part?

Whitesox05
09-09-2005, 02:48 PM
As of right now, in the big games, I would pitch Garcia and contreras. They would be my tops. I would be worried about Buehrle too. He has been getting hit against the good hitting teams. In the playoffs, there is nothing but good hitting teams. Guillen better have Contreras pitch in the playoffs....if not it will be a big mistake.

If el duque continues to struggle, then we always have McCarthy to fall on. He can really help us out in the playoffs, either starting or in the pen. He throws strikes and that is the key.

rdwj
09-09-2005, 02:50 PM
The people that are angry about this probably thought BMac wasn't even much of a prospect 2 weeks ago.

Perfectly stated :)

ATXBMX
09-09-2005, 03:20 PM
b.) Even if you think we are, a six-man rotation won't HELP us. BMAC had 2 good outings. He also had two AWFUL outing earlier in the season. He's a rookie. Why in the world would we want to insert him in the rotation in September?


Because a few of our guys already have thrown around 200+ innings. They need to be able to go about another 30 in the postseason to avoid a Prior like collapse. Buehrle is a workhorse, but he'd be pushing 300 innings by November.

I say either go with a 6 man rotation to rest everybody, or give McCarthy some of El Duque's starts. El Duque has a history of the "tired arm". He's already been on the DL twice this year because of it, and last year he finished the season with a tired arm.

I'm not saying McCarthy should make the playoff roster, but give our guys that got us here a little break so they can finish what they started.

ChiSoxRowand
09-09-2005, 03:23 PM
I agree. At this point, Contreras has to be the #4 pitcher in the playoffs and McCarthy just held the 2 best-hitting clubs in the AL to 0 runs over 14 2/3rd innings. Get El Duque rested and acclimated to coming out of the bullpen.

Unless Contreras really falters down the stretch, I'd go with Contreras without blinking.

Agreed. The way Jose has been pitching, he has to be the #4 starter. Maybe wait a week or so then send El Duque to the pen.

Dolanski
09-09-2005, 03:37 PM
Not sure who called him Cy Young??? But who cares if Buehrle or Garland win a Cy Young? If we are 20 games out, yes then go for it. Loiaza almost won it recently, did that change your life? Winning a World Series- There is a life changer. That should be the goal, not individual awards. The individual awards will come naturally with TEAM success anyway.

Ozzie made that comment about Cy Young in his post game press conference after El Duque's start this week.

fquaye149
09-09-2005, 07:03 PM
Because a few of our guys already have thrown around 200+ innings. They need to be able to go about another 30 in the postseason to avoid a Prior like collapse. Buehrle is a workhorse, but he'd be pushing 300 innings by November.

I say either go with a 6 man rotation to rest everybody, or give McCarthy some of El Duque's starts. El Duque has a history of the "tired arm". He's already been on the DL twice this year because of it, and last year he finished the season with a tired arm.

I'm not saying McCarthy should make the playoff roster, but give our guys that got us here a little break so they can finish what they started.

I'm not against a six man rotation. However I'm not so FOR it that I'm going to assume I know more about the status of the pitching staff than Ozzie and Cooper. Ozzie did not decide out of the blue to drop McCarthy. If Cooper says (by way of this decision) that the arms are good to go, I for one trust him.

Let's not forget El Duque hasn't exactly pitched a plethora of innings. I seem to recall him sitting out a few weeks in May.

Mohoney
09-09-2005, 07:24 PM
Because a few of our guys already have thrown around 200+ innings.

But that's the entire point. The guys that have thrown 200+ innings are consistently 200+ inning guys year in and year out. I honestly think that they thrive on the extra work. They learn more about what pitches they can throw in certain situations, and they see these AL hitters a few extra times when compared to other team's starters.

Besides, there might be another rainout at some point, and McCarthy can get a start there. Even if he doesn't get another start this season, he can say that he ended his season with a 14 2/3 inning scoreless streak against two of the top hitting teams in the AL, grabbing his first 2 big league wins in the process, while walking 2 and striking out 9.

The icing on the cake? This was done while in the midst of a playoff drive, which is a lot different than doing it in Kansas City or Tampa Bay.

I think that McCarthy can call it a season, save for a little work out of the bullpen, and be really pleased with the results. I know I am.

Dice
09-11-2005, 11:07 AM
Buerhle nor Garland is winning the Cy Young. AND PLUS, this is about more than winning awards. We need to win the pennant. That's what I thought the White Sox was all about this season? Winning games instead of individual accomplishments.

Jurr
09-11-2005, 11:42 AM
Buerhle nor Garland is winning the Cy Young. AND PLUS, this is about more than winning awards. We need to win the pennant. That's what I thought the White Sox was all about this season? Winning games instead of individual accomplishments.
Ozzie says that he trusts his guys to tell him if they're tired. They swear up and down that they're not. So, in Ozzie's mind, if they're not tired, then they need to pitch their way out of these little funks that they're dealing with. That's why you're not going to see the six man rotation. Now, maybe during the last week of the season, you'll see BMac get a start.

BTW...does BMac post on here anymore? I know that he used to.

downstairs
09-11-2005, 11:45 AM
BTW...does BMac post on here anymore? I know that he used to.

Yes, he posts as Dice.


/joke

Ol' No. 2
09-11-2005, 12:22 PM
Ozzie says that he trusts his guys to tell him if they're tired. They swear up and down that they're not. So, in Ozzie's mind, if they're not tired, then they need to pitch their way out of these little funks that they're dealing with. That's why you're not going to see the six man rotation. Now, maybe during the last week of the season, you'll see BMac get a start.

BTW...does BMac post on here anymore? I know that he used to.I've said before that you can't go entirely by how a pitcher says he feels. The results will begin to suffer well before the pitcher starts to feel tired. The results speak for themselves. Off day on Monday, so they'll come back this week with the extra day's rest. But with 20 games in 20 days, they'll need some extra rest. Even if they get through it, I don't want them running on fumes in October. Plus, putting McCarthy in next Sunday moves Contreras back to pitch against the Toons. He's the hottest pitcher right now.

Fake Chet Lemon
09-11-2005, 06:26 PM
The reason is you have to stick with what got you there. Ozzie knows this and hes right. While McCarthy has been great recently you have to let the guys who worked so hard to make it have their shot. McCarthy will be there probably backing up whichever pitcher needs help of stumles eariler. He made the right decision and respecfully so.

You can stick with El Duque and I'll have to 100% disagree with you. I'd rather go with a young, fresh arm than a tired one.

Fake Chet Lemon
09-11-2005, 06:30 PM
Are you serious about this post?

a.) We're not really in any sort of playoff jeopardy




Really?!!! If Cleveland wins Sunday night they are 5.5 games back and we have seven with them. The Kool-Aid is thick on this site. Yes, there is some jeopardy. It isn't sewn up by any means.

antitwins13
09-11-2005, 06:50 PM
Bring Bac B-MAC!