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AZChiSoxFan
09-08-2005, 03:39 PM
I attended the Sox DH in Texas last week and a play in the second game got me wondering. Widger got an error for dropping a popup right behind the plate in the 2nd game of the DH. Hypothetically, a pitcher could throw a perfect game, but the catcher, 1st baseman, or 3rd baseman (or others for that matter) could still have an error. Does anyone know if this has ever happened?

Ol' No. 2
09-08-2005, 03:53 PM
I attended the Sox DH in Texas last week and a play in the second game got me wondering. Widger got an error for dropping a popup right behind the plate in the 2nd game of the DH. Hypothetically, a pitcher could throw a perfect game, but the catcher, 1st baseman, or 3rd baseman (or others for that matter) could still have an error. Does anyone know if this has ever happened?If the batter never reaches base I don't believe it's charged as an error. If he does it's not a perfect game.

Brian26
09-08-2005, 04:02 PM
I'm pretty sure a dropped foul ball can be charged as error if it should have been caught.

However, since the batter doesn't reach first on the play, the pitcher can still continue to throw a perfect game. To me, the definition of perfect game = no batters reach base.

SOX ADDICT '73
09-08-2005, 04:11 PM
I'm pretty sure a dropped foul ball can be charged as error if it should have been caught.
Crede was charged with an error for his infamous dropped foul against Manny Ramirez in July.

ilsox7
09-08-2005, 04:27 PM
I'm pretty sure a dropped foul ball can be charged as error if it should have been caught.

However, since the batter doesn't reach first on the play, the pitcher can still continue to throw a perfect game. To me, the definition of perfect game = no batters reach base.

This is correct as far as I know.

Fredsox
09-08-2005, 05:52 PM
My understanding is that the definition of a Perfect Game is the pitcher faces and retires 27 consecutive batters. This leave very little room for various circumstances.

On a somewhat related note, this link tells the story of Ernie Shore, who relieved Babe Ruth in a game after 1 batter (Ruth walked him and got tossed for arguing) and retired the next 27 batters. Apparently he was credited with a perfect game.
http://www.baseballlibrary.com/baseballlibrary/features/flashbacks/06_23_1917.stm

Even if he didn't it's a great story.

AZChiSoxFan
09-08-2005, 07:09 PM
I'm pretty sure a dropped foul ball can be charged as error if it should have been caught.

However, since the batter doesn't reach first on the play, the pitcher can still continue to throw a perfect game. To me, the definition of perfect game = no batters reach base.

Your first statement is correct. In the case where Widger dropped the routine popup behind the plate, the batter was retired a pitch or two later in the same AB. However, Widger was still charged with an error. As far as your second statement, I agree that a perfect game = 27 batters coming to the plate and 27 batters retired. So it seems to me that you could have a perfect game and still have a fielder charged with an error.

doublem23
09-08-2005, 07:51 PM
Crede was charged with an error for his infamous dropped foul against Manny Ramirez in July.

Right, but was he charged with the error before or after Manny went yard? Case in point, had that been a grounder that Joe misplayed, but booted straight to Juan Uribe, there'd be no error if Juan was able to throw Manny out at first, even though Joe made what would have been an error at third.

Milw
09-08-2005, 08:05 PM
Right, but was he charged with the error before or after Manny went yard? Case in point, had that been a grounder that Joe misplayed, but booted straight to Juan Uribe, there'd be no error if Juan was able to throw Manny out at first, even though Joe made what would have been an error at third.
I believe it would have been an error either way. About 97% sure on that one ...

voodoochile
09-08-2005, 09:34 PM
Right, but was he charged with the error before or after Manny went yard? Case in point, had that been a grounder that Joe misplayed, but booted straight to Juan Uribe, there'd be no error if Juan was able to throw Manny out at first, even though Joe made what would have been an error at third.

Yes, they score the play regardless of what happens thereafter.

AZChiSoxFan
09-09-2005, 10:41 AM
Yes, they score the play regardless of what happens thereafter.

Exactly, because in the game vs. Texas, Widger was charged with an error for dropping a popup behind the plate, even though the batter was retired during the same AB.

BTW, I went to baseball-almanac.com and checked the box scores from all the perfect games in the history of MLB. No team has ever had an error (like the kind discussed in this thread, obviously not referring to a "typical" error in which the batter reaches base) in a game in which that team's pitcher threw a perfect game. Maybe someday we'll see that.

TDog
09-09-2005, 12:55 PM
If a pitcher retires all 27 hitters he faces while winning a nine-inning game (which rarely happens), he is credited with a perfect game. If the catcher, an infielder or outfielder drops a foul pop (which frequently happens), the fielder is charged with an error if the official scorer rules it should have been caught, given a normal effort. A perfect game for the pitcher, but not so for the fielder.

If the pitcher drops a foul ball, for some reason, while retiring all 27 batters, he could be charged with an error. He would pitch a perfect game, but it wouldn't really be a perfect day (or night).

A pitcher can "earn" a perfect game (for all the people who worship ERA) without getting credit anywhere in the record books for pitching one. In 1974, Dick Bosman threw a no-hitter for the Tribe. He faced 28 men (defending and soon to be repeating world champion A's, they were), retiring 27. Sal Bando reached on an error -- committed by Dick Bosman.

SoxEd
09-11-2005, 06:27 PM
To be credited with a 'Perfect Game', does the pitcher have to Win it?

I mean, could a pitcher retire all 27 batters thru 9 innings, and come off credited with a PG, even though the other team also gave up no runs and the game went into Extra Innings?

If so, then the team could still lose if the guy pitching the 10th gives up a run while the opposition keeps you shut out.

Does anyone know?

Ol' No. 2
09-11-2005, 06:43 PM
To be credited with a 'Perfect Game', does the pitcher have to Win it?

I mean, could a pitcher retire all 27 batters thru 9 innings, and come off credited with a PG, even though the other team also gave up no runs and the game went into Extra Innings?

If so, then the team could still lose if the guy pitching the 10th gives up a run while the opposition keeps you shut out.

Does anyone know?To be credited with either a no-hitter or perfect game the pitcher has to finish it, even if it goes into extra innings.

SoxEd
09-11-2005, 07:40 PM
To be credited with either a no-hitter or perfect game the pitcher has to finish it, even if it goes into extra innings.

Muchas gracias for the info.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Milw
09-11-2005, 08:09 PM
To be credited with a 'Perfect Game', does the pitcher have to Win it?

I mean, could a pitcher retire all 27 batters thru 9 innings, and come off credited with a PG, even though the other team also gave up no runs and the game went into Extra Innings?

If so, then the team could still lose if the guy pitching the 10th gives up a run while the opposition keeps you shut out.

Does anyone know?
Pedro Martinez pitched a perfect 9 innings for the Expos some years back, but the game went to the 10th and he gave up a hit. Was not a perfect game, even though it was. A stupid technicality, IMO, but the rule nonetheless.

fquaye149
09-12-2005, 01:56 AM
Pedro Martinez pitched a perfect 9 innings for the Expos some years back, but the game went to the 10th and he gave up a hit. Was not a perfect game, even though it was. A stupid technicality, IMO, but the rule nonetheless.

I wonder if Harvey Haddix has anything to say about this subject :)