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Jenks4Pres
09-08-2005, 10:25 AM
I need to start the official playoff rotation thread! Who should be our fourth starter?

1.) Buehrle
2.) Garland
3.) Garcia

4.) ?

Contreras - Has been as good as any White Sox pitcher of late and has earned the fourth spot with his performance on the mound.

McCarthy- A stretch, but Ozzie has said in the past that he will look at the match-up before he decides, and if Boston were to be an opponent, McCarthy has had as much success as any.

El-Duque- Has pitched horribly, always gives up the big inning, however he is seen as the favorite for the fourth spot because of his playoff success.

Right now, I go with Contreras and throw El Duque and McCarthy in the bullpen.

Flight #24
09-08-2005, 10:40 AM
I need to start the official playoff rotation thread! Who should be our fourth starter?

1.) Buehrle
2.) Garland
3.) Garcia

4.) ?

Contreras - Has been as good as any White Sox pitcher of late and has earned the fourth spot with his performance on the mound.

McCarthy- A stretch, but Ozzie has said in the past that he will look at the match-up before he decides, and if Boston were to be an opponent, McCarthy has had as much success as any.

El-Duque- Has pitched horribly, always gives up the big inning, however he is seen as the favorite for the fourth spot because of his playoff success.

Right now, I go with Contreras and throw El Duque and McCarthy in the bullpen.

I don't think you can take 1 outing v a team as evidence of anything. McCarthy was great that day against Boston, but until you get a couple more datapoints, that's not a very effective predictor of future success.

Frater Perdurabo
09-08-2005, 10:42 AM
I'm inclined to go with Daver's "calculated gamble" that would:

1. Shut El Duque down for the rest of the regular season;

2. Start McCarthy in El Duque's spot for the rest of the regular season;

3. Have El Duque start Game 1 of the ALDS.

As Daver said, El Duque has performed exceptionally well in his first start back from both DL trips this year. Best case, the Sox would have a 1-0 lead in the ALDS with their three best pitchers (Buehrle, Garcia, Garland) set to pitch the next three games. Worst case, the Sox would be down 1-0 with their three best pitchers (Buehrle, Garcia, Garland) set to pitch the next three games. Depending on the matchups and results in Games 2, 3 and 4 (Garcia would start Game 3 on the road), Contreras, Garland or Buehrle would start Game 5 at home in the unlikely event the ALDS somehow goes to five games.

Ol' No. 2
09-08-2005, 10:44 AM
I need to start the official playoff rotation thread! Who should be our fourth starter?

1.) Buehrle
2.) Garland
3.) Garcia

4.) ?

Contreras - Has been as good as any White Sox pitcher of late and has earned the fourth spot with his performance on the mound.

McCarthy- A stretch, but Ozzie has said in the past that he will look at the match-up before he decides, and if Boston were to be an opponent, McCarthy has had as much success as any.

El-Duque- Has pitched horribly, always gives up the big inning, however he is seen as the favorite for the fourth spot because of his playoff success.

Right now, I go with Contreras and throw El Duque and McCarthy in the bullpen.It's just too soon. They're going to get another 5 starts each before the end of the season. That's probably going to determine who's in the rotation and who's in the BP.

As Flight said, you're not going to put McCarthy in the rotation on the basis of two starts. It would be like making Willie Harris your starting 2B on the basis of two good games. If I had to predict now, I'd guess McCarthy doesn't even make the playoff roster.

White Sox Randy
09-08-2005, 10:51 AM
The playoff rotation cannot be determined until our opponent is determined.

UofCSoxFan
09-08-2005, 11:04 AM
Based on the bulk of the work in the season...I don't see how its not MB game one, Garland 2, Garcia 3 (first road game), and Contreras 4. Contreras has been our best pitcher of late and throughout the year has been completely nasty when on. You have El Duque ready to go in for Contreras if Contreras doesn't have his A stuff. I don't see McCarthy making the roster at this point...especially in the first 5 game series.

Jenks4Pres
09-08-2005, 11:15 AM
El Duque in Game 1!

That's ridiculous. No sane individual would start their fifth starter in Game 1 of the playoffs. While we're doing that, let's pick up Billy Koch and pencil him in as the closer.

SoxinAZ
09-08-2005, 11:18 AM
The playoff rotation cannot be determined until our opponent is determined.

Agreed :D:

ilsox7
09-08-2005, 11:28 AM
The playoff rotation cannot be determined until our opponent is determined.

While that would be ideal, I don't know if it is realistic. Our opponent will most likely not be determined until the last weekend of the season and maybe even the last day or in a 1 game playoff. Considering most/all pitchers like to go on a certain days rest, I am thinking the rotation will most likely be set during the last week of the season, but we shall see.

LauraJ14
09-08-2005, 12:12 PM
It's just too soon. They're going to get another 5 starts each before the end of the season. That's probably going to determine who's in the rotation and who's in the BP.

As Flight said, you're not going to put McCarthy in the rotation on the basis of two starts. It would be like making Willie Harris your starting 2B on the basis of two good games. If I had to predict now, I'd guess McCarthy doesn't even make the playoff roster.

McCarthy was on the 25 man roster on 8/31 so who would replace him?

Ol' No. 2
09-08-2005, 12:30 PM
McCarthy was on the 25 man roster on 8/31 so who would replace him?Nobody. Since Crede and Thomas were on the 15-day DL on 9/1, they have a pool of 27 players who are playoff-eligible: 12 pitchers and 15 position players. They'll carry only 11 pitchers on the playoff roster.

ShoelessJoeS
09-08-2005, 12:49 PM
Gotta love the fact that we have such a great starting rotation that we have to argue about who's going to be the top 4 in our rotation come playing time. The only thing I can say as of right now is that Freddy needs to start game three on the road, where he's shown to be one of the most dominating road pitchers in all of baseball.

ilsox7
09-08-2005, 01:12 PM
Nobody. Since Crede and Thomas were on the 15-day DL on 9/1, they have a pool of 27 players who are playoff-eligible: 12 pitchers and 15 position players. They'll carry only 11 pitchers on the playoff roster.

I'd be VERY tempted to substitute McCarthy for Marte. Sure it is one less lefty, but it is also one more effective pitcher.

Ol' No. 2
09-08-2005, 01:23 PM
I'd be VERY tempted to substitute McCarthy for Marte. Sure it is one less lefty, but it is also one more effective pitcher.Can't argue with the logic. If you think it was scary watching Marte pitching to Matt Stairs in a meaningless game, wait until you see him pitching to David Ortiz in the ALCS. But you KNOW that's not what Ozzie's going to do.

CYGarland20
09-08-2005, 01:26 PM
I need to start the official playoff rotation thread! Who should be our fourth starter?

1.) Buehrle
2.) Garland
3.) Garcia

4.) ?

Contreras - Has been as good as any White Sox pitcher of late and has earned the fourth spot with his performance on the mound.

McCarthy- A stretch, but Ozzie has said in the past that he will look at the match-up before he decides, and if Boston were to be an opponent, McCarthy has had as much success as any.

El-Duque- Has pitched horribly, always gives up the big inning, however he is seen as the favorite for the fourth spot because of his playoff success.

Right now, I go with Contreras and throw El Duque and McCarthy in the bullpen. Garcia is by far my game 1 starter, he has been nails in every big game he's pitched in this year. Plus he has postseason experience. Then I'd go w/ either Garland or Buehrle, depending on who we match up with.......As for the 4th starter that is a tough one. Right now I'd have to go w/ Contreras, and use Hernandez out of the bp. Of course if McCarthy gets a few more starts and is lights out down the stretch, I'd have to seriously consider him. Decisions, Decisions.This will be a tough choice for Ozzie.

doublem23
09-08-2005, 01:28 PM
El Duque in Game 1!

That's ridiculous. No sane individual would start their fifth starter in Game 1 of the playoffs. While we're doing that, let's pick up Billy Koch and pencil him in as the closer.

I pretty much agree. While I'm inclined to include the Duke in the play-off rotation over McCarthy, you have to start Buehrle in Game 1 of the ALDS. You can't afford to go down 1-0 (especiallu with home field) in a short series like that. You have to trust your ace to get that first win and put the opponent on the defensive.

maurice
09-08-2005, 01:37 PM
Contreras for #4 starter. Hernandez for long relief.

I don't think McCarthy makes the playoff roster, but I'd like to see him get a start or two to help clarify next season's rotation.

bigdommer
09-08-2005, 01:41 PM
Obviously, the rotation will depend on the times and locations of the games, and the opponent. For instance, Garcia will probably pitch on the road and during the day if possible. If we play the Yankees or Red Sox, you might see El Duque or Contreras in the rotation. Contreras has dominated both AL East squads, and El Duque has pitched well against them, despite having no run support and a washed out game.

Against the A's/Angels, I think a rotation of MB, JG, FG, and El Duque makes sense. Against the RedSox/Yanks, I think a rotation of MB, FG, JC, and JG makes sense.

SoxSideIrish
09-08-2005, 01:45 PM
El Duque in Game 1!

That's ridiculous. No sane individual would start their fifth starter in Game 1 of the playoffs. While we're doing that, let's pick up Billy Koch and pencil him in as the closer.

I guess there's a couple of things to be said for this:

1. AH! Don't ever mention Koch, ever!

2. I don't think that this idea with Hernandez is totally off base. With the rotation we have here, it's extremely hard to pin a "5th Starter" tag on one person. Granted, El Duque isn't going to go out there and give you 9 shutout innings. But he definitely has the know-how and grit to win big games (post-season or otherwise) that some other staffs wish they had out of their ace, let alone their "5th starter". It's a pretty original idea, and it seems like it would have a good chance of working.

Besides that, it's so nice to have this "problem" of which pitcher from a great staff do you play. But what ever happens, Garcia NEEDS to pitch on the road, no doubt about it. And Marte NEEDS to keep his butt firmly planted on the BP bench, no matter what. I don't trust someone who can give up 2 walks ( or even hit 2 people) to a team thats in the cellar of the division. Imagine what kind of damage he would do in the post-season when the pressure and excitement is multiplied by 100?

enurb
09-08-2005, 01:49 PM
Right now I would go with the following rotation:

1. Buehrle
2. Contreras
3. Garcia
4. Garland

El Duque, McCarthy to the pen.

Contreras posted a 2.14 era in August, and has a 1.84 era in Sept. He is the hot hand right now. He's flat unhittable at times. In contrast, Garland posted a 4.78 era in August.

I'd keep it flexible. Garland may have returned to form with his 4-hitter vs. Detroit. McCarthy could continue to dazzle. And, El Duque is seasoned in the playoffs.

It is a nice "problem" to have.

CYGarland20
09-08-2005, 02:17 PM
Against the RedSox/Yanks, I think a rotation of MB, FG, JC, and JG makes sense.No way would i start MB in games 1 or 2 vs. the Red Sox. They have KILLED him this year!!..........It's hard to say who we will face in the 1st round right now. I would prefer the Angels or the Yanks though.

bigdommer
09-08-2005, 02:57 PM
No way would i start MB in games 1 or 2 vs. the Red Sox. They have KILLED him this year!!..........It's hard to say who we will face in the 1st round right now. I would prefer the Angels or the Yanks though.

That's two starts, very hard to make a judgement off of two starts. MB is 3-1 with a 3.64 ERA against the BoSox over the past three years. The only playoff contender that he is better against is the Angels. Also, one of MB's games against the BoSox he gave up 3ER in 6 innings, and no one would have cared if a)Crede catches a pop up or b)Vizcaino isn't allowed to pitch in close games or c)Iguchi doesn't make 2 errors on a double play ball.

antitwins13
09-09-2005, 12:31 PM
Garland
Buehrle
Garcia
McCarthy

KyWhiSoxFan
09-09-2005, 12:59 PM
Contreras for #4 starter. Hernandez for long relief.

I don't think McCarthy makes the playoff roster, but I'd like to see him get a start or two to help clarify next season's rotation.

I would be astonished if McCarthy is not in the rotation next year. They can't keep him in AAA. The only way he is not a starter is if he's traded, and I surely hope that does not happen. We'll be waiving goodbye to El Duque through trade or he'll be in long relief in the bullpen. At worst, McCarthy is long relief next year, but in any case, he's on the roster.

Mohoney
09-09-2005, 06:01 PM
To be honest, I would rather see who will be starting Game 1 for our opponent before making any decisions. If the AL West and AL Wild Card races go down to the last day or two, teams like the Yankees, A's, or Angels might have to use their top starters, or even top 2 starters, just to try and make the playoffs, and might have to resort to starting their 3rd best pitcher in Game 1.

I want to match up Buehrle against our opponent's #1 starter, since it gives us, in my opinion, the best chance to win that particular game of the series. If our opponent's #1 starter isn't pitching until Game 2 or Game 3, then that's when Buehrle goes.

Let's say that the A's and Yankees end the season with identical records, and that the Angels and Red Sox have both clinched division titles. Let's go further and say that Zito pitched game #162 for the A's, and Johnson pitched for the Yankees, leaving a Harden-Mussina matchup in a one game playoff, which the A's win.

In Game 1, Oakland has to start either Kirk Saarloos or Danny Haren and wait until Game 2 to start Zito and Game 3 to start Harden.

I would answer this, if at all possible, with Garland in Game 1, Buehrle in Game 2, and Garcia in Game 3, because I think that if Garland can start his first ever playoff game against another guy making his first ever playoff start, it can really help take some of the edge off. Garland can go in thinking: "This guy is just as nervous as me, we're in the same boat, and all things being equal, I'm a better pitcher than this guy."

In this scenario, I think Game 1 puts Garland in the best possible position to win 2 games in this series. Games 2 and 3 become coin flips, as Oakland is never in a position to run a true pitching mismatch against us, and Buehrle is on track to pitch a Game 5 if it comes down to that.

If Garland dazzles and gets the win in Game 1, I think you have to give him the ball again in Game 4. I know it sucks for Jose and El Duque, but those guys are real pros, and they know that their shot will come in the ALCS.

We could be in a position to have Garcia, Garland, and Buehrle for Games 3, 4, and 5, and that's all we can really ask for.