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Lip Man 1
09-06-2005, 11:46 AM
Interesting story/column in the Daily Southtown today on John Rooney's situation with WSCR radio.

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/062sd4.htm

Lip

miker
09-06-2005, 11:50 AM
Okay, so other than getting rid of John Rooney and that their signal sucks, the move to the Score is good for the Sox, right? Right?:?:

Nellie_Fox
09-06-2005, 11:53 AM
Okay, so other than getting rid of John Rooney and that their signal sucks, the move to the Score is good for the Sox, right? Right?:?:WSCR's signal is vastly superior to WMVP's.

Frater Perdurabo
09-06-2005, 11:54 AM
As our Phil Arvia reported on Saturday, Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf insisted that Rooney and Farmer keep making at least what they were making when the team switched stations. Viacom/Infinity-owned WSCR is paying the team less than Disney-owned WMVP, which grossly overpaid for the Sox and Bulls a few years ago. In radio, announcers' salaries often rise and fall in conjunction with the rights fees paid. Reinsdorf didn't want that to happen.

So, those who chose to blame the Sox in general and Uncle Jerry in particular seem to be misplacing their anger.

mikehuff
09-06-2005, 11:55 AM
I pretty much agree with what this guy says. I don't like Farmer and I also think the Score makes some really bad decisions. Case in point.

miker
09-06-2005, 11:56 AM
WSCR's signal is vastly superior to WMVP's.
Not out here in the far southwestern burbs. It sounds like SCR's under water, when they have programming worth listening to.

Of course it doesn't help with WLS-AM's giant tin-foil hanger and Com Ed's lines surrounding me.

Over By There
09-06-2005, 12:10 PM
Sorry for the little hijack, but wow - I didn't realize Adrian Karsten had died (nor did I realize he was in so much trouble - see the bottom of the article). Can't say I was a huge fan necessarily, but he seemed like a solid reporter during ESPN's college football broadcasts.

I_Liked_Manuel
09-06-2005, 12:14 PM
i can't believe that station will pay jesse rogers and lawrence holmes, but it won't pay for some actual talent.

Brian26
09-06-2005, 12:18 PM
i can't believe that station will pay jesse rogers and lawrence holmes, but it won't pay for some actual talent.

These are guys that 15 years ago wouldn't have been good enough to get a job working for free at a college radio station around here, but all of a sudden have voices on a 50,000 watt radio station in a major market. It's honestly a joke. Neither of these guys belong anywhere near a microphone. Holmes, especially, is a complete, no-talent hack.

bluestar
09-06-2005, 12:24 PM
This is completely outrageous. I am heartbroken over the news that Rooney will no longer be part of the Sox broadcast team, and now that the reason behind it has been revealed, it makes me sick.

I wish there was something that could be done. It sounds like all sides involved are determined and the outcome has already been decided, but I wonder if a letter-writing campaign would help?

SoxWatch
09-06-2005, 12:33 PM
WSCR's signal is vastly superior to WMVP's.

This is simply due to the FCC. Both stations carry 50,000 watt antennas, as do all AM stations. The FCC mandates which freq get the clear channel rating, meaning 360 directional always 50,000 watts. AM-1000 has to power down below 50,000 at night and become single directional (east i think), while AM-670 can stay at 50,000 watts and stay all directional. Thats why 670 is a better and stronger signal, the FCC's regulations.

tebman
09-06-2005, 12:48 PM
So, those who chose to blame the Sox in general and Uncle Jerry in particular seem to be misplacing their anger.
This just confirms what some of us were thinking last week when it was announced that Rooney wasn't coming back. Since WSCR is paying less for the broadcast rights, the management figured they'd pay less for the talent, too.

The management of broadcast stations is filled with people who came up in sales, not programming. Their first instinct is to close the deal, followed quickly by another instinct to squeeze every nickel out of the deal. Programmers (i.e., broadcasters), as opposed to salesmen, recognize the value of talent and know that because there's an audience out there, there has to be a showbiz element to their decision-making.

The movement away from broadcasters-as-managers has been going on for a number of years. The management at WSCR, or its parent companies, Infinity and Viacom, care nothing about baseball. They only know what the ad-selling potential is of this particular deal, and they're going to squeeze as much as possible out of it.

It saddens me too, but there's really not much we can do about it.

Iwritecode
09-06-2005, 12:51 PM
This is simply due to the FCC. Both stations carry 50,000 watt antennas, as do all AM stations. The FCC mandates which freq get the clear channel rating, meaning 360 directional always 50,000 watts. AM-1000 has to power down below 50,000 at night and become single directional (east i think), while AM-670 can stay at 50,000 watts and stay all directional. Thats why 670 is a better and stronger signal, the FCC's regulations.

It's been discussed many times before. IIRC, it's because of some radio station in Seattle of all places...

tebman
09-06-2005, 12:59 PM
This is simply due to the FCC. Both stations carry 50,000 watt antennas, as do all AM stations. The FCC mandates which freq get the clear channel rating, meaning 360 directional always 50,000 watts. AM-1000 has to power down below 50,000 at night and become single directional (east i think), while AM-670 can stay at 50,000 watts and stay all directional. Thats why 670 is a better and stronger signal, the FCC's regulations.
WMVP actually does have 50,000W day and night, but you're right about the directional signal. After sunset, WMVP electrically changes its antenna pattern to send its signal to the east from its transmitter site in Downers Grove. Since it's still 50kW, it sounds great in Pennsylvania, but lousy anywhere west of Downers Grove.

There's another 50kW station in Seattle, KOMO, also on 1000 kHz. The FCC allocated these stations' positions over 60 years ago. To keep from interfering with each other, KOMO changes its patten at night so it doesn't send as much toward Chicago, and WMVP kicks most of its signal east so that it doesn't interfere with Seattle. The problem is that 60 years ago nobody had any idea that so many people would be living so far west of Chicago. Now WMVP is stuck with it.

duke of dorwood
09-06-2005, 01:18 PM
So they pay a worthless piece of dung with no talent a million, and we lose a great announcer. I dreaded the move to that awful station, now EVERYONE has to bear all that $ made by someone NO ONE listens to

jdm2662
09-06-2005, 01:23 PM
This really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. After all, this is the same station that pays a "talent" over $1.5 million to get crappy ratings in the morning that doesn't even talk about sports. This is also the same station that it's "best" show consists of blunderings of Terry Boars. This is also the same station that fired Les, let go of not great but at least decent-to-good people like Jonathon Hood. and Tommy Williams. Yet, they still employ Jesse Rogers (who by the way, is a buddy of North), and Holmes. Holmes only wishes he was as good as the Sunday morning show on Loyola radio. Mulligan was the only guy I liked on the station. Since his show was bumped, the Score might as well be erased from my AM dial.

JohnBasedowYoda
09-06-2005, 01:52 PM
Not out here in the far southwestern burbs. It sounds like SCR's under water, when they have programming worth listening to.

Of course it doesn't help with WLS-AM's giant tin-foil hanger and Com Ed's lines surrounding me.

i've never had any complaints. it is am radio after all

ElevenUp
09-06-2005, 06:17 PM
This is yet another reason for me to dislike the Score. I remember when it first came out and I couldn't turn it off. I thought it was great stuff. I moved away in '98 and came back 2 years ago. Now that station totally blows. Now I find out they won't bring back Rooney next season? Enough is enough. I only wish there was more that I could do other than to sign the petition and write to the station. What a bunch of tools!:angry:

Fenway
09-06-2005, 06:26 PM
It's been discussed many times before. IIRC, it's because of some radio station in Seattle of all places...

yup KIRO 1000 is a clear channel

WSCR's transmitter is in Bloomingdale

http://www.fybush.com/Site%20images/010801/wscr-towers.jpg

santo=dorf
09-06-2005, 06:59 PM
Why doesn't the Score just tell :dollarbill: to put up more dough to broadcast his minor league hockey team, and give that to Rooney?

TornLabrum
09-06-2005, 07:22 PM
yup KIRO 1000 is a clear channel

If it shares a frequency after sunset with another 50 kW station it is not (by definition) a clear channel.

Fenway
09-06-2005, 07:25 PM
If it shares a frequency after sunset with another 50 kW station it is not (by definition) a clear channel.

not true

Clear1000
WLUP, Chicago, IL: Class A (I-A)
KOMO, Seattle, WA: Class A (I-B)


http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/amclasses.html

WLS is a clear channel on 890 but there is a station in Boston on 890 at night

http://890espnboston.com/graphics/logo.jpg

Chips
09-06-2005, 07:35 PM
WMVP actually does have 50,000W day and night, but you're right about the directional signal. After sunset, WMVP electrically changes its antenna pattern to send its signal to the east from its transmitter site in Downers Grove. Since it's still 50kW, it sounds great in Pennsylvania, but lousy anywhere west of Downers Grove.

There's another 50kW station in Seattle, KOMO, also on 1000 kHz. The FCC allocated these stations' positions over 60 years ago. To keep from interfering with each other, KOMO changes its patten at night so it doesn't send as much toward Chicago, and WMVP kicks most of its signal east so that it doesn't interfere with Seattle. The problem is that 60 years ago nobody had any idea that so many people would be living so far west of Chicago. Now WMVP is stuck with it.

Driving to Michigan over the weekend we were able to catch the Sox broadcast, but out in DeKalb, AM 1000 is virtually non existent.

knocko94
09-06-2005, 07:37 PM
I was able to listen to Sox games in Manchester, NH while visitng family years back.

It was Norton's first game, I believe, and he went deep. Kinda weird that it's stuck with me all those years.

tebman
09-06-2005, 08:14 PM
not true

Clear1000
WLUP, Chicago, IL: Class A (I-A)
KOMO, Seattle, WA: Class A (I-B)


http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/amclasses.html

WLS is a clear channel on 890 but there is a station in Boston on 890 at night
True, there technically are no more "clear channels," because the FCC, bowing to political pressure in the 1970s, began to authorize local lower-nightime-power stations on the former "clear" frequencies. Those stations, like the 890 near Boston that Fenway mentioned, are required to "protect" the old 50kW stations by using severely directional patterns that send no signal toward the big 50kW station after dark.

WSCR is in the same situation -- there's a list here (http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/finder?call=&band=AM&freq=670&freq_exact=Yes&city=&state=&country=&format=&owner_search=starts&owner=&scope=&count=20&is_lic=Y&is_cp=Y&is_unl=Y&is_ful=Y&is_lp=Y&sort=Call&sr=1&sid=) of all the stations on 670, most of which are little heel-nippers that are not supposed to interfere with WSCR except in their immediate area.

Here's an excerpt of a historical description (http://www.oldradio.com/archives/general/clears6.htm) of how the big ol' clear-channel (1A) stations gradually lost their undisturbed frequencies:

"In what would be the coup de grace of a 50-year fight, the FCC issued the 1980 Report and Order that assigned a second high-power station on each of the 12 remaining unduplicated 1-A channels. It also affirmed the protected service contour for the primary station to be the 50/50, 0.5 mV/m sky-wave contour (in the real world, about a 750-mile radius). More than 100 new secondary stations would be authorized on those 12 1-A clear channels. The original power limit of 50 kW for the 1-A primary stations was cast in stone, thus ending super-power hopes and leaving WLW as the only station in the country ever to operate formally with more than 50 kW."

Optipessimism
09-06-2005, 08:40 PM
All this makes me feel sick. North is a verbal yeast infection and Rooney is a radio god, so ***? Poor Ed Farmer, he fit in so well next to John but now is going to get skewered every single game next year and going forward because he is going to be forced to try and fill shoes that are impossible for him to fill.

**** the Score, **** Viacom, **** Infinity, and **** Mike North.

SABRSox
09-06-2005, 10:13 PM
I wish there was something that could be done. It sounds like all sides involved are determined and the outcome has already been decided, but I wonder if a letter-writing campaign would help?

It wouldn't hurt. Remember, there are much more options now in how you can listen to games, with XM and the Internet. Granted, you have to pay for those services, but maybe just threatening to listen to the opposing team's radio coverage over the Sox coverage would be enough for the idiots who run WSCR to at least rethink their position and re-open negotiations with Rooney. Sending them links to the USA Today article would also be a good idea.

Hey, if the Sox fandom got Scott Podsednik into the all-star game, surely we can save our beloved announcer's job...

pavletich
09-06-2005, 10:24 PM
Interesting story/column in the Daily Southtown today on John Rooney's situation with WSCR radio.

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/062sd4.htm

Lip

Okay-

I guess that it's time for Jerry to step up and say what a travesty it is that the best broadcast team in the A.L. is being broken up, and it's "out of his hands".
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2005-07-26-announcers-al_x.htm

Do we really believe that there's nothing he can do? Maybe he can threaten to move the team to St. Petersburg if the score doesn't sign Rooney!!!! ;)

C'mon Mr. Chairman, FIX THIS NOW!!!!

IowaSox1971
09-07-2005, 01:35 AM
If Reinsdorf really wants Rooney back, he could tell WSCR that he would pay the station extra money to increase its offer to Rooney. In other words, if Rooney wants $900,000 per year and only is offered $600,000 by the station, have Reinsdorf pay the difference.

SouthSide_HitMen
09-07-2005, 01:55 AM
If Reinsdorf really wants Rooney back, he could tell WSCR that he would pay the station extra money to increase its offer to Rooney. In other words, if Rooney wants $900,000 per year and only is offered $600,000 by the station, have Reinsdorf pay the difference.

:reinsy

"Son let me explain how this works. You come up with some money and borrow some more and you buy a sports franchise. Then you take in revenue from fans through ticket sales, parking, food & beverage and merchandise. You sign contracts with media outlets and they pay you money as well to broadcast your product.

(Sidebar - Unless you are :dollarbill: who pays like an infomercial does to be broadcast on radio - actually a step below - most informercials are on TV)

You also share in leaguewide television, radio, website, merchandise and other revenue streams. You also bribe, con or threaten your local or state government dictating you will move unless they pay for your biggest capital outlay - the stadium you will call home for a decades until you repeat this process again.

With the revenue you pay your performers, or as you call them ballplayers. You pay the parttime workers in the stadium, your administrative office staff and other expenses you were not able to get government to pay for you.

We are not in the business of paying broadcasters (with the exception, of course, of Bill Wirtz as noted above). We would like the best people available as better broadcasts create better revenue. But just as in the case when players like Magglio Ordonez want more money than either they are worth or more than we are willing to pay (for instance Tom Gordon) we wish them the best (well most of the time) and look for the best replacement within our budget. We are a business like any other business. We look to turn a profit. So I join you in the sadness of seeing a very good announcer leave but as the saying goes - The show must go on."

Frankfan4life
09-07-2005, 03:36 AM
WSCR's signal is vastly superior to WMVP's.Not in the West Loop. I get AM1000 a heck of a lot better than AM670. I believe Brian26 can attest to that. That and losing Rooney are the reasons I'm opposed to the change.

I'm ready to sign a petition, write a letter, do something.

SSN721
09-07-2005, 06:27 AM
I've found the Score to always have a poor signal whenever I flip it on, when I am out of the city traveling I find AM1000 to come in as well or better then the Score. The fact that those clownbags Holmes and Rogers are even getting paid to broadcast on saturday night and they cant come up with some extra money for Rooney is a travesty. And dont even get me started on Mike North. The consipiracy theory that really scares me now, with North doing so poorly in the morning I wonder if this is a way to get his foot in the door and actually be a Sox broadcaster?:o: Thinking about that might keep me up nights terrified.

Fenway
09-07-2005, 08:57 AM
Those stations, like the 890 near Boston that Fenway mentioned, are required to "protect" the old 50kW stations by using severely directional patterns that send no signal toward the big 50kW station after dark.



ESPN Boston as you can see doesn't beam to the west after sundown

even the signal they send into Boston is reduced at night so you can actually hear WLS in the background


Predicted nighttime* (http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WAMG&service=AM&status=L&hours=N#nite) coverage pattern for WAMG 890 AM (http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/info?call=WAMG&service=AM), Dedham, MA

http://www.radio-locator.com/pats/WAMG_AM_LN.gif