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DickAllen72
09-01-2005, 10:27 PM
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050901&content_id=1193047&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

"I didn't want to play this year in Charlotte. It just kind of happened," said Gload, speaking in the White Sox clubhouse before Thursday's series opener against Detroit. "I mean, I don't know what they think of me at this point.

"I've done everything I could do this year to get healthy and get back here again. I just kind of start over and go from there. I imagine I'll really just be insurance. A backup to the backups."

Gload battled problems with his left shoulder since Spring Training and even aggravated the issue during his first rehab assignment. But the slick-fielding first baseman said he has been completely healthy since his second rehab assignment, which eventually led to his reassignment to the Knights on Aug. 1.

It was a somewhat bitter pill to swallow for Gload, who apparently had fought his way up from a stellar Minor League career, finishing strong for the White Sox in 2004. Gload hit .321 with seven home runs and 44 RBIs and was named the American League Rookie of the Month for September.

Manager Ozzie Guillen originally expressed the thought that Gload would not lose a roster spot to injury. But as Guillen looked for greater versatility from every player, and Geoff Blum was added at the non-waiver trade deadline, Gload became expendable.

"Blum is playing all over the infield pretty well, and Gload is only a one-position player," Guillen said. "Two with DH. That's why the decision is being made. If we don't have Blum in the lineup, we're going to have a lot of trouble having [Joe] Crede out."

"I don't know what's more important," Gload added. "What I did last year over [234] at-bats or what I did -- I lost my job over an injury and 13 at-bats. It's been a tough year in that aspect. I started 2-for-13 and I lost my job. It took me five months to prove myself in Charlotte, to get one month up here, which is tough" The .369 average, 15 home runs and 45 RBIs point out that Gload still can hit the ball, and he clearly didn't pout while thinking about his change of venue.

Banix12
09-01-2005, 10:39 PM
I feel bad for him but I think the team made the right decision.

Realistically Gload couldn't play OF this year with his shoulder problems and he wasn't going to get much playing time at 1st and DH with Konerko and Everett taking those positions. The sox don't have a lot of room on the bench and it didn't make sense to fill a roster spot with a player who was only going to play once every two or three weeks.

I don't think this had anything to do with Guillen having a grudge against him as some have suggested. Guillen clearly liked the guy enough to give him a spot last season when he had almost no major league experience, it just didn't work out this year.

JB98
09-01-2005, 10:41 PM
I feel bad for him but I think the team made the right decision.

Realistically Gload couldn't play OF this year with his shoulder problems and he wasn't going to get much playing time at 1st and DH with Konerko and Everett taking those positions. The sox don't have a lot of room on the bench and it didn't make sense to fill a roster spot with a player who was only going to play once every two or three weeks.

I don't think this had anything to do with Guillen having a grudge against him as some have suggested. Guillen clearly liked the guy enough to give him a spot last season when he had almost no major league experience, it just didn't work out this year.

I agree. The inability to play OF due to the injury cost him a spot. A lot of people wanted Perez gone and Gload to stay. That didn't happen because Timo is capable of playing all three OF positions. There just weren't any at-bats for Ross at 1B or DH.

Optipessimism
09-01-2005, 10:43 PM
If the Sox resign Paulie and retain Blum, which I think they will unless they get a 3B in the offseason and still retain Crede (unlikely), I hope they trade him off somewhere. He is very good defensively and is capable of besting Sean Casey type numbers somewhere else. Even if he started out as a backup somewhere else, I still think he'd have a good chance of becoming a starter on a lesser team.

SOX ADDICT '73
09-01-2005, 10:44 PM
Gload is a clubhouse cancer!

While I have yet to forgive him for tip-toeing around the Twins' catcher last September (after Burke got plowed by Hunter the month before), I still wish Gload could have picked up where he left off production-wise.

Domeshot17
09-01-2005, 10:47 PM
I would venture to say Gload > Timo in post season value.

Edit: That was in my opinion, not Ozzies, as he apparently wants to have Timos Children.

DickAllen72
09-01-2005, 10:55 PM
A lot of people wanted Perez gone and Gload to stay. That didn't happen because Timo is capable of playing all three OF positions. There just weren't any at-bats for Ross at 1B or DH.

Before Blum was acquired, the Sox had no backup first baseman on the team. Ozzie played Timo and Dye there for a game each.

Willie Harris was still on the roster. Willie could play CF, Ozuna could play LF, and Everett could play RF or LF. There was no need for yet another backup outfielder on the roster but there was a glaring need for a backup 1B. Yet Ozzie chose to keep Timo around instead of Gload who was healthy and playing well in AAA.

Today before the game, Ozzie spoke of the new callups. He explained how they can use Sanders, another LH in the bullpen, how Casanova will enable him to pinch run for Widger and AJ, but all he said about Gload was "I don't know how we're going to be able to use him."

With Carl struggling from the left side this year, Gload is probably the best left handed hitter on the team. I hope Ross and Willie make the playoff roster ahead of Timo and a twelfth pitcher.

Banix12
09-01-2005, 11:00 PM
I would venture to say Gload > Timo in post season value.

Edit: That was in my opinion, not Ozzies, as he apparently wants to have Timos Children.

If this were Gload last season, then yes. This year no. I wouldn't want a guy who currently only has 13 Major League at bats and has no position to play trying to find his swing in the playoffs. He was a good pinch hitter last season, but he was also getting semi-regular play.

Timo on the other hand is the sox only real reserve OF and is one of the best OF arms on the team. He also has some signifigant postseason experience from when he was on the 2000 mets.

Optipessimism
09-01-2005, 11:06 PM
I hope Ross and Willie make the playoff roster ahead of Timo and a twelfth pitcher.

I think Willie makes the playoff roster as a pinch runner, but I really don't think Gload gets in.

IMO, Gload's bat and ability to play a good 1B makes him more valuable than Timo during the regular season, but I think Timo fits better on a playoff roster. Neither Gload or Timo will be starting in the postseason, so each has value as a clutch LH bat off the bench with some power. The advantage Timo has over Gload IMO is that he is quicker and can come through with a bunt when we need him to. I do kind of feel bad for Gload though, he has played very well for us since coming over and I think should have at least spent more time on the roster during the regular season.

HotelWhiteSox
09-01-2005, 11:06 PM
Hmmm, our first basemens sure do have a lot in common...

Banix12
09-01-2005, 11:07 PM
Before Blum was acquired, the Sox had no backup first baseman on the team. Ozzie played Timo and Dye there for a game each.

Willie Harris was still on the roster. Willie could play CF, Ozuna could play LF, and Everett could play RF or LF. There was no need for yet another backup outfielder on the roster but there was a glaring need for a backup 1B. Yet Ozzie chose to keep Timo around instead of Gload who was healthy and playing well in AAA.

Today before the game, Ozzie spoke of the new callups. He explained how they can use Sanders, another LH in the bullpen, how Casanova will enable him to pinch run for Widger and AJ, but all he said about Gload was "I don't know how we're going to be able to use him."

With Carl struggling from the left side this year, Gload is probably the best left handed hitter on the team. I hope Ross and Willie make the playoff roster ahead of Timo and a twelfth pitcher.


How many days this year have the sox realistically needed a backup first baseman? Five, maybe six games?

Ozuna had never played OF before, Willie isn't that great in the OF and has a weak OF arm, and Everett has defintely lost a step with his bad knees and would not be considered a strong defensive OF. Timo has a cannon for an arm and is better defensively than those three options.

Willie was around because Tadahito was new to the league and had never played this amount of games before. He was just here to give him a day off from time to time. Ozuna was here because Willie wasn't a true utility infielder.

Gload got regular playing time last season because he could be counted on to play some OF. This year he started the season with shoulder problems and then reinjured it throwing from first to home. If you can't throw from first to home you can't throw from OF to the cutoff man.

I like Gload a lot but the sox made the right call

JB98
09-01-2005, 11:09 PM
Before Blum was acquired, the Sox had no backup first baseman on the team. Ozzie played Timo and Dye there for a game each.

Willie Harris was still on the roster. Willie could play CF, Ozuna could play LF, and Everett could play RF or LF. There was no need for yet another backup outfielder on the roster but there was a glaring need for a backup 1B. Yet Ozzie chose to keep Timo around instead of Gload who was healthy and playing well in AAA.

Today before the game, Ozzie spoke of the new callups. He explained how they can use Sanders, another LH in the bullpen, how Casanova will enable him to pinch run for Widger and AJ, but all he said about Gload was "I don't know how we're going to be able to use him."

With Carl struggling from the left side this year, Gload is probably the best left handed hitter on the team. I hope Ross and Willie make the playoff roster ahead of Timo and a twelfth pitcher.

Well, we don't need 12 pitchers. On that, I agree. But if you think Timo is going to be left off the roster in favor of Gload or Harris, you can forget it. Harris and Ozuna are huge liabilities in the outfield. I would never put either of them out there except in case of emergency, and I sure as hell wouldn't take a chance on them playing out there in a playoff game. Frankly, I would not put Everett in the outfield during the playoffs either. This team needs Timo to be on the roster in case Pods, A-Row or JD get hurt. God forbid.

The bottom line is, Timo serves as a backup to all three starting outfielders, and Ross backs up no one except Konerko. Unless Paulie gets injured, there just aren't many at-bats there. After we clinch, I'm sure Ross will get some PT at 1B. Personally, it is my opinion that there is never a "glaring need" for a backup 1B.

Domeshot17
09-01-2005, 11:32 PM
If this were Gload last season, then yes. This year no. I wouldn't want a guy who currently only has 13 Major League at bats and has no position to play trying to find his swing in the playoffs. He was a good pinch hitter last season, but he was also getting semi-regular play.

Timo on the other hand is the sox only real reserve OF and is one of the best OF arms on the team. He also has some signifigant postseason experience from when he was on the 2000 mets.

Sorry, bit I would hardly say a guy who was hitting .370 15 45 in triple A is trying to find his swing. I buy the defensive replacement stuff, but not that gload was trying to find his swing.

Korey Patterson in the Flubs triple A hitting just over 200 was TRYING TO FIND HIS SWING. Gload, at .370, Was trying to find out why he wasn't on the 25 man roster.

DaleJRFan
09-01-2005, 11:38 PM
I'm still not over him completely costing us the game vs the Flubs last year

Why?? Because the manager put a 1B in rightfield? *****. I guess his 3 RBIs in that game weren't enough to make up for it.

It is ridiculous that he has been stuck in AAA all season. He is a better hitter than roughly 75% of the Sox active roster and is a mega contact hitter, meaning SITUATIONAL hitting would be a breeze in "ozzie ball". As much as I love the Sox, and being a big time Gload fan, I hope KW trades him to a team that appreciates him. Somewhere he will start and get a chance to be a star. He's 29 and won't get many more chances to prove himself.

Banix12
09-01-2005, 11:46 PM
Sorry, bit I would hardly say a guy who was hitting .370 15 45 in triple A is trying to find his swing. I buy the defensive replacement stuff, but not that gload was trying to find his swing.

Korey Patterson in the Flubs triple A hitting just over 200 was TRYING TO FIND HIS SWING. Gload, at .370, Was trying to find out why he wasn't on the 25 man roster.

Ok, Trying to find his swing against major league pitching, there is a big difference between AAA pitching and major league pitching or don't you remember all of the White Sox fifth starter callups last season.

He was getting everyday playing time at AAA and in the Majors he'll be getting the month of september to play the field maybe once a week at best and pinch hit. Who knows if his groove will continue up here. It's been months since he's had an at-bat up here and he's barely faced major league pitching since last september. I don't see that as a recipie for success right now.

I like Gload a lot, and I'm sure he understands why he was down in the minors
1) Injures himself
2) Thomas took his roster spot for the month of June
3) Reinjured himself (right before he was about to be called up and Timo replaced if I recall, right around the Athletics series before the all star break)
4) Crede gets a balky back making an extra 3b more necessary than an extra 1b
5) couldn't play OF all season.
6) Paul Konerko and Carl Everett are better than him at the only positions he could play

Gload knows why he was down there, he doesn't like it but he knows.

Flight #24
09-01-2005, 11:49 PM
Why?? Because the manager put a 1B in rightfield? *****. I guess his 3 RBIs in that game weren't enough to make up for it.

It is ridiculous that he has been stuck in AAA all season. He is a better hitter than roughly 75% of the Sox active roster and is a mega contact hitter, meaning SITUATIONAL hitting would be a breeze in "ozzie ball". As much as I love the Sox, and being a big time Gload fan, I hope KW trades him to a team that appreciates him. Somewhere he will start and get a chance to be a star. He's 29 and won't get many more chances to prove himself.

The question is where do you play him? And that's serious, not Hawkism. The only answer is at DH, which is a position that Everett's not exactly been sucking at. And during the season, you'd basically be losing the roster spot you need to backup Crede effectively.

You need a backup SS (Ozuna)
You need a backup 2B/3B (Not Ozuna since when Crede was hurting, you needed someone else or you'd run the risk of not having a backup MI. See the Oakland game with Dye at SS. Plus Ozuna can't really play 3B or 2B all that well)
You need a backup OF (Timo, not Gload even though Ross is a better hitter)
You need a backup C (ummmm.....not Gload)

That'syour 4 backups, and Ross can't sub for any of them. Therefore the only way he finds a roster spot is if he replaces a starter, and the only guy even possible is Everett. Which isn't practical since you can't send Carl to the minors, IIRC and anyway I don't think you want to do that.

Even before Blum came on board, Willie filled a role that Ozuna couldnt - 2B.

The lack of a true UT IF that can fill all 3 positions cost Gload his job. It's nothing against Ross. Hopefully that won't be an issue next year because we'll have found someone ala Uribe last year. If Gload hits in his limited time in Sep, I wouldn't be surprised if they keep him on the playoff roster instead of Willie and give Ozuna the role of pinch runner (eliminating the 12th pitcher).

DaleJRFan
09-01-2005, 11:51 PM
Ok, Trying to find his swing against major league pitching, there is a big difference between AAA pitching and major league pitching or don't you remember all of the White Sox fifth starter callups last season.

He was getting everyday playing time at AAA and in the Majors he'll be getting the month of september to play the field maybe once a week at best and pinch hit. Who knows if his groove will continue up here. It's been months since he's had an at-bat up here and he's barely faced major league pitching since last september. I don't see that as a recipie for success right now.

I like Gload a lot, and I'm sure he understands why he was down in the minors
1) Injures himself
2) Thomas took his roster spot for the month of June
3) Reinjured himself (right before he was about to be called up and Timo replaced if I recall, right around the Athletics series before the all star break)
4) Crede gets a balky back making an extra 3b more necessary than an extra 1b
5) couldn't play OF all season.
6) Paul Konerko and Carl Everett are better than him at the only positions he could play

Gload knows why he was down there, he doesn't like it but he knows.

Yea, it makes complete sense. But it really sucks for him. As a big fan of his, I'm kinda miffed I didn't get to watch him play.

I mean, what the hell is he supposed to do, walk on water?? Hopefully he has a September like he did last season (Gload + Raul for Oswalt - Houston needs a 1B....:cool: )

DaleJRFan
09-01-2005, 11:53 PM
The question is where do you play him? And that's serious, not Hawkism. The only answer is at DH, which is a position that Everett's not exactly been sucking at. And during the season, you'd basically be losing the roster spot you need to backup Crede effectively.

You need a backup SS (Ozuna)
You need a backup 2B/3B (Not Ozuna since when Crede was hurting, you needed someone else or you'd run the risk of not having a backup MI. See the Oakland game with Dye at SS. Plus Ozuna can't really play 3B or 2B all that well)
You need a backup OF (Timo, not Gload even though Ross is a better hitter)
You need a backup C (ummmm.....not Gload)

That'syour 4 backups, and Ross can't sub for any of them. Therefore the only way he finds a roster spot is if he replaces a starter, and the only guy even possible is Everett. Which isn't practical since you can't send Carl to the minors, IIRC and anyway I don't think you want to do that.

Even before Blum came on board, Willie filled a role that Ozuna couldnt - 2B.

The lack of a true UT IF that can fill all 3 positions cost Gload his job. It's nothing against Ross. Hopefully that won't be an issue next year because we'll have found someone ala Uribe last year. If Gload hits in his limited time in Sep, I wouldn't be surprised if they keep him on the playoff roster instead of Willie and give Ozuna the role of pinch runner (eliminating the 12th pitcher).

I know... I know.... I'm just a whiny Gload fan.... its outa my system now, so I'll keep my stupid comments to myself from now on... :D:

southsideirish71
09-01-2005, 11:58 PM
Ok, Trying to find his swing against major league pitching, there is a big difference between AAA pitching and major league pitching or don't you remember all of the White Sox fifth starter callups last season.

He was getting everyday playing time at AAA and in the Majors he'll be getting the month of september to play the field maybe once a week at best and pinch hit. Who knows if his groove will continue up here. It's been months since he's had an at-bat up here and he's barely faced major league pitching since last september. I don't see that as a recipie for success right now.

I like Gload a lot, and I'm sure he understands why he was down in the minors
1) Injures himself
2) Thomas took his roster spot for the month of June
3) Reinjured himself (right before he was about to be called up and Timo replaced if I recall, right around the Athletics series before the all star break)
4) Crede gets a balky back making an extra 3b more necessary than an extra 1b
5) couldn't play OF all season.
6) Paul Konerko and Carl Everett are better than him at the only positions he could play

Gload knows why he was down there, he doesn't like it but he knows.

At that time we had Arow, Everett, Dye, Pods, Ozuna, Willie and Timo who could all play the OF. But we couldnt bring up Gload because he didnt play OF? At that time we needed a 1st baseman backup, and we also needed a lefty who can hit. The OF part was just an excuse so we could keep Timo on the roster. Think about how many times in August we could of used Gloads bat in the lineup when we were getting 3 hit almost every night. Timo played 1st base(which he cant play), he DH'd(which is funny considering the second part of that position is hitter) and he leadoff. Obviously Timo is good for the pinch hit role, I have a funny thought that Ross could pinch hit late in the games probably just as good. For whatever reason Ross got on Ozzie's bad side and was put to the curb. On a team that was begging for offense to have a guy raking the ball and keep him down because he cant play the OF, which you have plenty of those guys is sad and a poor excuse. I wish him luck next year for whatever team he plays on. Because he will only be a pinch runner for Kong for the rest of the year.

Banix12
09-02-2005, 12:10 AM
At that time we had Arow, Everett, Dye, Pods, Ozuna, Willie and Timo who could all play the OF. But we couldnt bring up Gload because he didnt play OF? At that time we needed a 1st baseman backup, and we also needed a lefty who can hit. The OF part was just an excuse so we could keep Timo on the roster. Think about how many times in August we could of used Gloads bat in the lineup when we were getting 3 hit almost every night. Timo played 1st base(which he cant play), he DH'd(which is funny considering the second part of that position is hitter) and he leadoff. Obviously Timo is good for the pinch hit role, I have a funny thought that Ross could pinch hit late in the games probably just as good. For whatever reason Ross got on Ozzie's bad side and was put to the curb. On a team that was begging for offense to have a guy raking the ball and keep him down because he cant play the OF, which you have plenty of those guys is sad and a poor excuse. I wish him luck next year for whatever team he plays on. Because he will only be a pinch runner for Kong for the rest of the year.


Read all the posts before commenting because I covered this before but for you I'll repeat myself

Ozuna - Never played OF before this season, not a realistic consistant defensive option.
Willie - Weak OF arm and not overly reliable defensivley out there, especailly in the corner OF positions
Everett - Bad Knees, reduced range, not a good defensive backup.

Timo on the other hand has a cannon for an arm and can play all three OF positions well.

Also the fact that Gload couldn't play OF isn't about him being a capable everyday player out there. It's about finding a spot for him to find consistant playing time and at bats at the major league level. Konerko and Everett are everyday players at the positions Gload can realistically play best so he needs to play OF to get anywhere near the 250 AB's he got last season.

Also i disagree that Timo is a good pinch hitter. He's 3 for 21 this year and is like a career .160 pinch hitter. One of the advantages to Gload is his pinch hitting because last year he was a very good pinch hitter. It's tough to say though how good a PH he would be this season or postseason since he only has 13 MLB at-bats and can't get playing time because he has no position.

If Ozzie didn't want him on the team he wouldn't be here right now as a callup, realistically there was just no place to play him this season.

EDIT: I would also point out that last season Gload probably got as many AB's as he did was because Magglio and Frank both got hurt and Everett was out of shape when he joined the team. This opened up regular playing time for Gload, particularly in the second half and late in the season when the sox had fallen out of contention. This year the team has largely been healthy and Gload hasn't been.

BainesHOF
09-02-2005, 02:33 AM
Who cares what Gload thinks, especially this year? I care about the Sox being in the rare position of possibly winning the World Series this season. I couldn't care less what a journeyman first baseman with limited power thinks.

IowaSox1971
09-02-2005, 04:06 AM
Send Gload back down to the minors -- now. The last thing we need is a crybaby journeyman whining about why he wasn't on the big-league roster for most of the season. Face it, Ross: You've been injured, you've been horrible at the plate while on the big-league roster this season and you blew a game in Kansas City by failing to field an easy double-play grounder.

Madvora
09-02-2005, 07:18 AM
Looking WAY ahead here, but if we do happen to make it to the World Series, we're going to need some people to hit for the pitchers. Gload would be used there definitely.

Realist
09-02-2005, 07:21 AM
In summary:

Gload rocks and would probably swing a pretty good bat with us as an incredibly solid back up 1st baseman. Things being what they are, we really don't need a good hitting back up 1st baseman as much as we need coverage at other postions.

We are all big fans of Gload but he's screwed by the numbers.

Lots of very thoughtful comments on this thread. :thumbsup:

Madvora
09-02-2005, 07:42 AM
In summary:

Gload rocks and would probably swing a pretty good bat with us as an incredibly solid back up 1st baseman. Things being what they are, we really don't need a good hitting back up 1st baseman as much as we need coverage at other postions.

We are all big fans of Gload but he's screwed by the numbers.

Lots of very thoughtful comments on this thread. :thumbsup:
The problem was throwing out his arm after the first rehab. He was ready to come up and we thought we needed him bad then. Paulie needed a little rest and at that time we thought he'd be fine in the outfield. That would have been the end of Timo for sure. Since he threw out his arm, he's no longer going to be allowed in the outfield, which kept Timo around. So his value went down by that happening.

JimH
09-02-2005, 08:19 AM
At that time we had Arow, Everett, Dye, Pods, Ozuna, Willie and Timo who could all play the OF. But we couldnt bring up Gload because he didnt play OF? At that time we needed a 1st baseman backup, and we also needed a lefty who can hit. The OF part was just an excuse so we could keep Timo on the roster. Think about how many times in August we could of used Gloads bat in the lineup when we were getting 3 hit almost every night. Timo played 1st base(which he cant play), he DH'd(which is funny considering the second part of that position is hitter) and he leadoff. Obviously Timo is good for the pinch hit role, I have a funny thought that Ross could pinch hit late in the games probably just as good. For whatever reason Ross got on Ozzie's bad side and was put to the curb. On a team that was begging for offense to have a guy raking the ball and keep him down because he cant play the OF, which you have plenty of those guys is sad and a poor excuse. I wish him luck next year for whatever team he plays on. Because he will only be a pinch runner for Kong for the rest of the year.

You keep insisting this was a political decision ... it wasn't. See the numerous posts above for the real reasons.

Mohoney
09-02-2005, 09:30 AM
I don't know for sure, but I highly doubt that we carry 12 pitchers on a playoff roster, and if Frank can't come back in October, there will be one more roster spot available, which I think should be filled by Gload and not Willie. Since both guys only play one position, versatility isn't really an issue, and I think a lefthanded bat to pinch hit is more valuable than a pinch runner. Plus, both Blum and Ozuna can backup at 2B.

Your bench for the playoffs would be:

Widger
Timo
Blum
Ozuna
Gload

harwar
09-02-2005, 09:43 AM
The local media can be pretty nasty and they try and trick you into saying things that look good in print.
I think we should cut the guy some slack.
Anyway,i don't think that Gload is available for the playoffs since he was'n't called up untill sept.1st.

Chez
09-02-2005, 10:25 AM
I think everyone feels bad for Gload given his production last year and the fact that but for his injury, he probably would have been with the club all season. But injuries are part of the game and, truth be told, Gload owes his opportunity last season to Magglio's injury.

maurice
09-02-2005, 10:25 AM
Timo on the other hand has a cannon for an arm and can play all three OF positions well.

Well, you're half right. Perez has an outstanding arm, but that's his only tool. (It's also the least valuable tool.) He can't hit for AVE, can't hit for power, and can't run fast. He's not better at fielding in the OF than Ozuna, Harris, and a hobbled Everett. As you mentioned, he hasn't even been a good PH this season. Gload certainly would have been a much better fit in the lineup when Podsednik was out. He also makes less money.

Gload has lots of limitations also, but he's > Perez and more valuable to this team, especially before Blum was acquired.

I don't think Ozzie hates Gload, but he certainly has an irrational infatuation with Perez.

BainesHOF
09-02-2005, 11:57 AM
The local media can be pretty nasty and they try and trick you into saying things that look good in print. I think we should cut the guy some slack.

Gload is a big boy, as are the rest. Only they are responsible for what comes out of their mouths.

Mohoney
09-02-2005, 12:03 PM
The local media can be pretty nasty and they try and trick you into saying things that look good in print.
I think we should cut the guy some slack.
Anyway,i don't think that Gload is available for the playoffs since he was'n't called up untill sept.1st.

I think that if Frank doesn't come back, his spot can be taken by anybody that was with the organization on August 31. Remember K Rod in 2002? He didn't join the Angels until the middle of September.

JB98
09-02-2005, 12:09 PM
I don't know for sure, but I highly doubt that we carry 12 pitchers on a playoff roster, and if Frank can't come back in October, there will be one more roster spot available, which I think should be filled by Gload and not Willie. Since both guys only play one position, versatility isn't really an issue, and I think a lefthanded bat to pinch hit is more valuable than a pinch runner. Plus, both Blum and Ozuna can backup at 2B.

Your bench for the playoffs would be:

Widger
Timo
Blum
Ozuna
Gload

I agree with this. In the playoffs, you have a three-man or four-man starting rotation. If you carry 12 pitchers, then you have a minimum of eight men sitting in your bullpen. That's unnecessary. We should carry 14 position players.

You have to think it comes down to Gload or Harris for that last spot. Willie would be valuable as a pinch-runner, but Ozuna can fill that role just as easily. And Ross would be needed to pinch-hit in the NL park if we are fortunate enough to advance to the World Series. IMO, the value of Gload's bat > the value of Willie's legs.

Of course, all this assumes Crede is ready to play. If Joe is done, we have to take Willie for infield depth, and Gload will be out in the cold again.

Flight #24
09-02-2005, 12:44 PM
The local media can be pretty nasty and they try and trick you into saying things that look good in print.
I think we should cut the guy some slack.
Anyway,i don't think that Gload is available for the playoffs since he was'n't called up untill sept.1st.

Not true. because they kept Frank on the 15-day DL until 9/1, they can replace him with anyone in the org as of 8/31. So Ross (or Willie) can be Frank's replacement.

FWIW, I'd agree with the sentiment that Ross is more valuable than Willie assuming everyone's healthy. Ozuna can be the pinch runner since I'd assume we won't be starting any bench players in the postseason barring injury.

Ol' No. 2
09-02-2005, 01:05 PM
I agree with this. In the playoffs, you have a three-man or four-man starting rotation. If you carry 12 pitchers, then you have a minimum of eight men sitting in your bullpen. That's unnecessary. We should carry 14 position players.

You have to think it comes down to Gload or Harris for that last spot. Willie would be valuable as a pinch-runner, but Ozuna can fill that role just as easily. And Ross would be needed to pinch-hit in the NL park if we are fortunate enough to advance to the World Series. IMO, the value of Gload's bat > the value of Willie's legs.

Of course, all this assumes Crede is ready to play. If Joe is done, we have to take Willie for infield depth, and Gload will be out in the cold again.I, for one, would rather have Willie than Ozuna. Ozuna's only role in post-season is going to be as a pinch runner. Willie is faster. I don't see Ozuna getting much PH duty, and unless Crede is out, he's not going to start anywhere.

Gavin
09-02-2005, 01:17 PM
Gload sucked when he was called up earlier this year.

Put up or shutup.

socko82
09-02-2005, 01:43 PM
Adkins served no purpose at all on this team. With those anemic lineups Ozzie put out there when PK and Pods were both out I'm pretty sure Gload would have helped more than Adkins.

IowaSox1971
09-02-2005, 01:45 PM
Gload had a very good September last year, when there was no pressure because we were out of contention. This year, in the games he has played in the majors, he hasn't done anything positive for us. In fact, he lost the game in Kansas City, so he's minus-1 for the season for us.

At least Timo has had some big hits for us. He won that Memorial Day game against the Angels with that two-out, two-run hit, he drove in the winning run in the 10th inning up in Minnesota last week and he had the game-tying hit against Oakland with two out in the ninth inning. Those hits against the Angels and Twins prevented what would have been absolutely devastating losses. They might have been the most important hits of the season. Against the Angels, we had blown a ninth-inning lead on a ridiculous error by Iguchi and Everett had just struck out with the tying run on third. Then Timo resued us. Against the Twins, Minnesota had tied the game on that horrible ninth-inning play that should have been ruled a foul ball, but Timo gave us the momentum right back with his RBI single in the top of the 10th. I doubt that Gload would have come through for us in either situation. The one time that Gload could have made a contribution to this year's team, he booted a key double-play grounder in Kansas City, and that miscue led to a horrible, 13-inning loss.

And Gload backers should stop with the whining about how he hasn't had much of a chance to play. Even Brian Anderson, who also has had a limited role this season, led us to a victory this season with last week's two-homer game in Seattle. Even Anderson is plus-1 for the season.

maurice
09-02-2005, 01:55 PM
Comparing Gload's 2005 (23 ABs) to Perez's 2005 (160 ABs) is assinine, especially when it ignores the disaster that was Perez at 1B and his vomit-inducing 2005 stats (.225 AVE, .273 OBP, .306 SLG). Giving 160 ABs to a player with a .273 OBP and no power certainly costs runs and wins, especially when he's batting #1 and #5 in the lineup. It's not a coincidence that the growth in Timo's role correlated with a severe drop in the Sox W%.

Stick to bigger (and thus actually relevant) sample sizes . . .
- Gload MLB career: .288 / .344 / .436
- Perez MLB career: .265 / .303 / .376

HotelWhiteSox
09-02-2005, 02:00 PM
Gload = Jeff Liefer. I was one of the happiest White Sox fans on earth when they finally got rid of Jeff Liefer.


Losing a job to injury? What? Why does he get a guaranteed job? He needs to shut the hell up

Domeshot17
09-02-2005, 02:14 PM
Well first, Gload was on the roster before september 1, so he is playoff eligiable. Unless I am completely mistaken, I dont think it matters when a player was on the major league roster, as long as he was before sept 1. So Gload Adkins Anderson hell Kevin Walker are all post season options.

As for Ozuna<Willie not a chance. Willie is hitting a good 60 points below Ozuna ( who has the highest BA on our team). Ozuna can play second third and short, not incredibly well, but better then willie. Ozuna is fast, maybe not willie fast, but he is a smarter base runner. Ozuna would be used in a jam in the playoffs, and I would feel safer with him and not willie

Banix12
09-02-2005, 02:22 PM
Well, you're half right. Perez has an outstanding arm, but that's his only tool. (It's also the least valuable tool.) He can't hit for AVE, can't hit for power, and can't run fast. He's not better at fielding in the OF than Ozuna, Harris, and a hobbled Everett. As you mentioned, he hasn't even been a good PH this season. Gload certainly would have been a much better fit in the lineup when Podsednik was out. He also makes less money.

Gload has lots of limitations also, but he's > Perez and more valuable to this team, especially before Blum was acquired.

I don't think Ozzie hates Gload, but he certainly has an irrational infatuation with Perez.

I would have loved to see gload get some starts in the OF when Podsednik went down but realistically with his shoulder problems this year it wasn't even an option and Brian Anderson was called up.

Yes Timo can't hit for avg, he can't hit for consistant power (he does have some), and he isn't a speedy player. I contend all these are his limitations and I am not the biggest Timo fan in the world, I'm not really defending him as an overall player. I believe there are far better reserve OF that can be acquired than Timo. However you do need a proven reserve OF and that really isn't Gload or any of the middle infield options.

However, Give me some proof that he's a less reliable fielder than two middle infielders and a hobbled DH and I might believe you. I haven't seen any proof that Timo is a worse fielder than them. I trust Timo in the OF more than those three in a pinch since Ozuna has played maybe half a dozen games in his career out there, Willie is an avg CF at best and hasn't shown any ability to play the corners, and Everett is slower than Timo.

I also don't know exactly how valuable Gload is to the team to begin with since the sox have the best record in the american league and he has only been on the team for about three weeks total this season and was primarily a pinch hitter in that period.

I like Gload, I root for Gload, he was a solid role player last season. i wouldn't mind him as a 25th man on the playoff roster if he shows he can hit like last season this september. However as has been said by many there was just no place for him to play this season. There was just no use for a backup that can only play 1 position (that position held by your team's biggest power threat who can't take many days off), especially when you only have four reserve position spots.

maurice
09-02-2005, 03:05 PM
I would have loved to see gload get some starts in the OF when Podsednik went down

Actually, that's not what I meant. To be more clear, for the X number of games Perez started when Podsednik was out, Ozzie could have put Everett in LF and let Gload DH. He also could have started Anderson more and used Gload to PH if they were trailing late. His unreasonable infatuation with Perez prevented him from taking these reasonable steps, while Perez posted a .214 AVE, .267 OBP, and .286 SLG in August and regularly batted 1st and 5th.

you do need a proven reserve OF and that really isn't Gload or any of the middle infield options.

Like I already said, your 4th OF is Everett. No, he can't start in LF every day and should receive a defensive replacement late in games when the Sox have the lead. That's what Anderson was for. Ozuna and Harris certainly are adequate as emergency backup LFers.

Give me some proof that he's a less reliable fielder than two middle infielders and a hobbled DH and I might believe you. I haven't seen any proof that Timo is a worse fielder than them.

I didn't say he's worse. I said he's not better at fielding than they are. His big arm probably makes him comparable defensively. However, he's absolutely the worst offensive option, and our offense was really struggling at the time. That's not a coincidence. Comparable defense + worse offense = cut his ass.

I also don't know exactly how valuable Gload is to the team to begin with since the sox have the best record in the american league

Neither Perez nor Gload are very valuable, since they're extremely limited bench players who ordinarily should be relegated to PH. My point is that Gload almost certainly would have provided more offensive production in the #5 hole when Podsednik was out. Heck, any number of AAA players could done better than Timo. He's simply not a MLB-caliber player.

However as has been said by many there was just no place for him to play this season. There was just no use for a backup that can only play 1 position

Repetition of this point by Ozzie and others doesn't make it true. Before Blum was acquired, the Sox had no backup 1B but had plenty of backup OFers. Gload raked in Charlotte, while the Sox paid $1 mil. to a redundant, unproductive player. Thankfully, rosters have now expanded. Arguing about the composition of the playoff roster should be a real adventure.
:rolleyes:

DickAllen72
09-02-2005, 04:55 PM
Ross Gload, Willie Harris and Timo Perez are all basically the 24th or 25th man type players on this team.

I think were both the fans' and Ross Gload's resentment arises is in the fact that while Harris and Gload are treated as 25th players, Timo is treated as an untouchable. It seems as if the roster will be manipulated any way possible to assure that Timo remains.

Some people keep claiming how clutch Timo is because he has come up with some big hits over the past two seasons. But the fact remains that he is only batting around .220 with RISP. The reason he seems so clutch, is that he is given every opportunity in clutch situations. If you let Ross Gload bat with runners in scoring position and the game on the line time after time, he would also get a few hits and everyone would remember him as being clutch.

There are clutch hitters like Carl Everett who seem to come through in big situations because they actually have good batting averages in clutch situations when the pressure is on. A .220 average with RISP is not clutch.

I'm not a Timo hater. I do see his value as a bench player and I do give him credit when he does come through with a key hit or a great throw. But again, it seems as if he is given the opportunities to succeed that others are not, and while players like Gload and Willie are treated as the reserves they are, Timo is treated like an All Star.

Bottom line, is Gload's bat will be more useful off the bench than Timo's.

Flight #24
09-02-2005, 04:59 PM
Bottom line, is Gload's bat will be more useful off the bench than Timo's.

(sigh)

I don't recall anyone saying Timo's bat was better than Ross's. The point is that asking Everett to play the field more than once in a long while is begging for him to get hurt. Timo's a solid 4th OF defensively, whereas Gload gives bumblers a bad name out there (whereas at 1B he's excellent).

Yes, we'd all love to have Gload's bat in there. But much like when Frank was healthy, and we all wanted to have him AND Carl in there if possible, when the guy simply can't play the field halfway decently, it just ain't possible. Ross is a 1B or DH. That's it. Carl is a DH who can OCCASIONALLY play the field. That's it. Konerko is a 1B/DH. 3 guys, 2 positions. If you had a true UT IF, you could carry Gload to backup those 2. But when you need 2 UT IFs, a 4th OF, and a 12th pitcher - there's just no spot for Ross unless he can beat out one of the other 2 guys at 1B/DH.

IowaSox1971
09-02-2005, 05:18 PM
Getting a hit with two outs and RISP when the score is 8-1 is not the same as getting a hit with two outs and the game on the line. For whatever reason, Timo tends to come through with the game on the line. Since last season, I can't recall any game-winning hit by Gload. As Hawk often says, "Don't tell me what you hit, tell me when you hit it."

JB98
09-02-2005, 05:26 PM
I, for one, would rather have Willie than Ozuna. Ozuna's only role in post-season is going to be as a pinch runner. Willie is faster. I don't see Ozuna getting much PH duty, and unless Crede is out, he's not going to start anywhere.

Ozuna is hitting .289. He's a better hitter than Willie, and he can play SS. God forbid, but what if Uribe gets injured during a playoff series? You want to play Willie there? I sure don't. Ozuna showed me he could handle position earlier in the year when Uribe had to sit a few days with back problems.

I'm not so sure Ozuna doesn't have the best wheels on the team. I think he's as fast as Podsednik, although Scotty is smarter on the basepaths and a much, much better basestealer.

For the life of me, I can't justify taking Harris ahead of Ozuna.

Jerome
09-02-2005, 05:41 PM
It frusturates me that Geoff Blum/Willie Harris/Timo Perez is on the team and Gload is not. What more does the guy have to do? He can hit better than all three of those garbage scrubs combined. Pablo can play 2B, theres no need for Harris or Blum, keep one of them not both. I have yet to figure out why Timo Perez is on a major league roster, let alone one with playoff aspirations. He is not such a spectacular defender that he's worth keeping over Gload.

Barring injury (I know in this case we have Crede's injury to deal with), Gload is a way better bat to have on this bench than any of the 3 previously mentioned.

(BTW I am not a FORG, like those people who said keep him and trade Konerko. I'm just pointing out that it's foolish for him not to be on the team ahead of the garbage thats up here.)

Pablo>Timo. Gload can play corner OF, 1B, or DH. This gives us plenty of versatility. Konerko can play 1B or DH. Remember too that Crazy Carl can play OF and that in Rowand and Podsednik, we have 2 CFs. When Iguchi's not playing Blum/Harris can fill in, we don't need both! Preferebly Blum so he can play 3B when Pablo isn't. Rowand, Pods and Carl can fight it out for LF and CF on some games if Gload is starting.

Exuse my rant, it's just that I can't find any logic in not having Gload on the team, to be used in some capacity, however minor, especially the way the offense is.

maurice
09-02-2005, 05:42 PM
Hawk is not exactly the best reference on the subject of wise personnel decisions. Keep in mind his disastrous tenure as GM and, more recently, his asinine comments re. the potential Griffey trade.

His love of craptacular players like Timo probably has something to do with Hawk's craptacular career .239 AVE / .739 OPS.

DickAllen72
09-02-2005, 05:45 PM
I don't recall anyone saying Timo's bat was better than Ross's. The point is that asking Everett to play the field more than once in a long while is begging for him to get hurt.

I was referring to the playoff roster when I said, "Bottom line, is Gload's bat will be more useful off the bench than Timo's."

But it's a moot point because nothing short of injury will keep Timo off the playoff roster. That being the case, I will root for Timo everytime he steps to the plate or takes the field for the Sox.

JB98
09-02-2005, 05:53 PM
It frusturates me that Geoff Blum/Willie Harris/Timo Perez is on the team and Gload is not. What more does the guy have to do? He can hit better than all three of those garbage scrubs combined. Pablo can play 2B, theres no need for Harris or Blum, keep one of them not both. I have yet to figure out why Timo Perez is on a major league roster, let alone one with playoff aspirations. He is not such a spectacular defender that he's worth keeping over Gload.

Barring injury (I know in this case we have Crede's injury to deal with), Gload is a way better bat to have on this bench than any of the 3 previously mentioned.

(BTW I am not a FORG, like those people who said keep him and trade Konerko. I'm just pointing out that it's foolish for him not to be on the team ahead of the garbage thats up here.)

Pablo>Timo. Gload can play corner OF, 1B, or DH. This gives us plenty of versatility. Konerko can play 1B or DH. Remember too that Crazy Carl can play OF and that in Rowand and Podsednik, we have 2 CFs. When Iguchi's not playing Blum/Harris can fill in, we don't need both! Preferebly Blum so he can play 3B when Pablo isn't. Rowand, Pods and Carl can fight it out for LF and CF on some games if Gload is starting.

Exuse my rant, it's just that I can't find any logic in not having Gload on the team, to be used in some capacity, however minor, especially the way the offense is.

Blum and Perez bring versatility defensively. That's why they are locks for the playoff roster. I don't want to see Crazy Carl anywhere near a glove during the postseason. Perez is the fourth outfielder.

Like I said, it comes down to Gload and Willie for that 25th spot. What do you value more, Ross's bat or Willie's legs? Both can only play one position, so they aren't of much value defensively. I'll take Ross as the 25th guy, but all these rantings about Gload being more valuable than Blum and Perez are misguided, IMO.

DickAllen72
09-02-2005, 05:59 PM
Doesn't Blum also play the corner OF positions? I could be wrong, but I think I remember when the Sox traded for Blum reports were that he plays the corner OF positions as well as all IF positions. If true, it's just another reason to keep Gload over Timo on the playoff roster.

[half teal]Of course Ozzie probably would never play Blum in the OF so as not to endanger Timo's spot on the roster. [/half teal]

maurice
09-02-2005, 06:11 PM
Perez is the fourth outfielder. . . . [A]ll these rantings about Gload being more valuable than Blum and Perez are misguided, IMO.

That's because you irrationally believe that the Sox have only 4 players capable of playing OF, making Timo the only backup OF in the event of a serious injury. (Serious injury is the only reason anybody other than Podsednik, Rowand, and Dye would play OF in the playoffs, since none of them require a PH or PR.) Actually, the Sox have numerous players capable of playing OF. Timo is the worst hitter among them and not even a particularly good fielder.

For the record, Everett has started 20 games in the OF this year and Ozuna has started 6. Combined, they have zero errors. Timo has 2 in the OF, plus another at 1B. Harris hasn't played OF for the Sox this season, but over his MLB career he has 3 errors in 104 games in the OF. Even Blum has played 56 games in the OF, committing only 1 error.

Please stop acting like Gload would ever be required to play OF in the playoffs.

Banix12
09-02-2005, 06:27 PM
Doesn't Blum also play the corner OF positions? I could be wrong, but I think I remember when the Sox traded for Blum reports were that he plays the corner OF positions as well as all IF positions. If true, it's just another reason to keep Gload over Timo on the playoff roster.

[half teal]Of course Ozzie probably would never play Blum in the OF so as not to endanger Timo's spot on the roster. [/half teal]

yes he has played corner in the past. however right now with Crede's injury he's more valuable at third and he's a better infielder than OF.

People keep assuming it's Gload vs. Timo for a playoff spot. It's not, Timo will be there. More likely it's Willie vs. Gload for 25th man.


Nothing to do with your post Dick, but everybody please stop stop thinking Willie and Gload play OF, they have in the past but it's been more than a year since either has played a game out there. Too late in the season to be getting reaccustomed to positions.

Everett can play OF but he's had a sore groin for about a month now. His days of playing OF this year are pretty much over. The sox are ahead in the standings and they need his bat in the lineup and can't risk him getting hurt in the field.

Ozuna has a total of 8 games of experience in his whole career at OF maurice, sure he didn't make an error in any of them but it's a small sample. Not someone I would trust when it counts.

Timo having two OF errors in something like fourty games isn't bad.

I do hope they can upgrade on Timo in the offseason, because certainly there are plenty of viable 4th OF out there who can get the job done better than he can. Right now though the sox really don't have anybody better at playing the field out there. The others can hit better for sure, but the team is built on Defense.

And I do believe Ozzie misuses Timo, He should not bat first and he's a bad pinch hitter. He's a once a week, give a guy a day off substitute only.

JB98
09-02-2005, 08:11 PM
That's because you irrationally believe that the Sox have only 4 players capable of playing OF, making Timo the only backup OF in the event of a serious injury. (Serious injury is the only reason anybody other than Podsednik, Rowand, and Dye would play OF in the playoffs, since none of them require a PH or PR.) Actually, the Sox have numerous players capable of playing OF. Timo is the worst hitter among them and not even a particularly good fielder.

For the record, Everett has started 20 games in the OF this year and Ozuna has started 6. Combined, they have zero errors. Timo has 2 in the OF, plus another at 1B. Harris hasn't played OF for the Sox this season, but over his MLB career he has 3 errors in 104 games in the OF. Even Blum has played 56 games in the OF, committing only 1 error.

Please stop acting like Gload would ever be required to play OF in the playoffs.

Fine. If one of our three starters gets hurt, let's play Everett in the outfield. He'll misplay a ball and cost us a game, and then everyone on this board will be crying. I know there are more than four guys on the Sox who can play OF. However, there are only four that can play outfield well.

I don't care about how many errors these various players have. It's a misleading statistic. I go only on what I see. The only people who are irrational around here are the FORG, who seem to think this guy is the second coming of Babe Ruth.

maurice
09-02-2005, 08:30 PM
What you're missing is that Timo doesn't play the OF well. He just throws really well. History shows that Timo is just as likely (if not more likely) to misplay a ball than Everett, etc. Even his biggest fan (Ozzie) has pulled him in favor of a defensive replacement this season. This is not negated by the fact that you happened to miss the games when Timo committed his errors but saw Carl get turned around on a fly ball once this season.

If you think that Timo's 2 errors in 41 starts "isn't bad," then 0 errors in 26 combined starts by Everett and Ozuna must be excellent.

Again, the only way somebody other than Podsednik, Rowand, or Dye plays a single inning in the OF during the playoffs is if one of them becomes seriously injured. None of these guys is going to get a day off. The defensive dropoff between Perez and Everett / Ozuna is essentially nonexistent. We're talking about Timo ****ing Perez here, not Willie Mays.

Gload = Ruth is a strawman argument. All the outlandish claims in this thread are coming from the FOTP camp.

Have a nice holiday, boys. I'll catch you on Tuesday.

Banix12
09-02-2005, 09:10 PM
What you're missing is that Timo doesn't play the OF well. He just throws really well. History shows that Timo is just as likely (if not more likely) to misplay a ball than Everett, etc. Even his biggest fan (Ozzie) has pulled him in favor of a defensive replacement this season. This is not negated by the fact that you happened to miss the games when Timo committed his errors but saw Carl get turned around on a fly ball once this season.

If you think that Timo's 2 errors in 41 starts "isn't bad," then 0 errors in 26 combined starts by Everett and Ozuna must be excellent.

Again, the only way somebody other than Podsednik, Rowand, or Dye plays a single inning in the OF during the playoffs is if one of them becomes seriously injured. None of these guys is going to get a day off. The defensive dropoff between Perez and Everett / Ozuna is essentially nonexistent. We're talking about Timo ****ing Perez here, not Willie Mays.

Gload = Ruth is a strawman argument. All the outlandish claims in this thread are coming from the FOTP camp.

Have a nice holiday, boys. I'll catch you on Tuesday.


It's so nice when people declare themselves the winner of an argument and leave for four days.

I'm hardly a FOTP, but since the only evidence I have of Everett and Ozuna being an equal to Perez is your Eyes and some 28 MLB games this season I tend to not trust your position. Everett 0 errors is irrelevant. He has leg problems now and shouldn't go near the outfield. Ozuna may have no errors but he has had a total of 8 chances to make a play in the OF. 8 for 8 is pretty good but hardly evidence of great OF play.

D. TODD
09-04-2005, 03:00 AM
Timo is the only backup outfielder we have! We have people who we can throw out there (Ozuna, Everett, etc.), but none are true outfielders at this point, and I would dread having any of them in left during the playoffs. Gload is not even an option for outfield, his only spot is as a bat of the bench. That is not enough for me to warrent a spot on the roster. The claim that he lost a job that he never had due to a injury is laughable to me. Enjoy your cup of coffee with the team this year Ross, and good luck next year wherever you try to catch on as a major leaguer.

Domeshot17
09-04-2005, 04:23 AM
Timo should never have been on this team. He is a hard worker, and While I have respect for Timo as a person, it changes when talking about what is best for the team. Give me Brian Anderson who has a better bat, a similiar arm, a better glove and better speed in the playoffs. I know he is a rook, but I have more confidence in him with the game on the line than I do Timo.

That being said, if Gload vs Willie is the battle for the 25th spot, I will take Gload. We have our pinch runner on the bench, but if Carl DH's, do we have a solid LHB on the bench? ( and no TIMO doesnt count). Im fine if say, Gload hits for Crede in the 8th and Blum takes over at 3rd, something to that extent, but Gload Anderson,Ozuna, and as much as I dont like saying this but over the last 3 games, Willie > Timo off the bench as a hitter.

I mean, you can say Willie has only had a good few games, but I break it down like this. In Pods down time, Timo hit something to the extent of 230-240. Willie has murdered the ball since coming up, and he is hustling. Willie is making the most of his opportunties, Timo didnt, and to me, that is what earns playoff roster spots, guys who earn it with their play.

Crede_Fan
09-04-2005, 07:41 AM
then 0 errors in 26 combined starts by Everett and Ozuna must be excellent.

Do you remember how Pablo looked if LF in Boston? While I like Pablo, he would not be in my outfield.

Mohoney
09-04-2005, 11:49 AM
Of course, all this assumes Crede is ready to play. If Joe is done, we have to take Willie for infield depth, and Gload will be out in the cold again.

But if Crede's done, then his roster spot could be taken by Gload, while Willie takes the spot of the 12th pitcher.

RallyBowl
09-04-2005, 12:32 PM
I like Ross and think he is a solid player (Timo= better). However, he should keep his mouth shut. On a team of "Nobodys", he is the biggest nobody. Who the frick is he to complain about anything? Why is anyone even interviewing him? Hey, d-bag, your team is in first place and has had the best record most of the season. Be happy and stop sulking because you got a boo-boo and haven't been around for most of it. Not really a team guy IMO if he can't put a positive spin on it and keep his hurt feelings to himself for 2 more months.

Ross Gload=:whiner:

socko82
09-04-2005, 01:04 PM
IMO Gload is a better defensive firstbaseman than Blum and much better offensively. Yet last night when Ozzie wanted to let Paul have the night off and just DH he used the sub .200 hitting Blum at first base. I'm afraid Ross has landed in somebody's doghouse and isn't about to make a postseason roster.

Banix12
09-04-2005, 06:23 PM
The fact that Blum is now getting the brunt of alternative to Konerko starts right now instead of Gload even now that the roster has expanded leads me to believe that he is going to be left off the playoff roster regardless of his performance this month.

Though since Blum likely will be on the playoff roster I really have no problem with him getting at-bats right now to try find his batting stroke.

I forget who said it here but I have to think if Crede is still iffy around playoff time I think they carry Willie as an extra infielder. There might be a shot at Gload making the roster if Crede is OK but I don't think it is a good chance.

I'm not saying this is the ideal. I'm just saying this seems likely.

Whitesox05
09-05-2005, 12:13 PM
I don't blame Gload for feeling bitter. Guillen can be very stubborn and he sure has been with Gload. I just don't understand why he isn't getting any at bats. He is a very serious bat that we need. Guillen needs to get his head out of his arse and give him some at bats. Gload can kill the ball. If Guillen isn't going to use him, giuve the kid a break and trade him. He deserves much better! He can play the outfield too.

Whitesox05
09-05-2005, 12:14 PM
I like Blum at the plate, but Gload can kill the ball. Gload should be backing up Paulie at 1st, not Blum. We need some power!

jehosaphat
09-05-2005, 05:54 PM
I, for one, would rather have Willie than Ozuna. Ozuna's only role in post-season is going to be as a pinch runner. Willie is faster. I don't see Ozuna getting much PH duty, and unless Crede is out, he's not going to start anywhere.

I, for one, would not. When you think about players off the bench during the playoffs, you think about someone coming to bat late in a tie game and needing to bunt to move a runner into scoring position. Harris can't bunt; or at least I can't remember ever seeing him execute a bunt. Perez and Ozuma can bunt, not sure about Gload. Ozuma's a better hitter than Harris. Blum can play 2nd base if we need him to do it, maybe not as good as Harris but good enough.

For all the other reasons that have been mentioned in the thread, I think Harris is the odd man out in regard to the playoff roster. Harris is the least likely to come through with a hit or a productive out of all of those on the bubble. Harris can run, but so can Ozuma.

Harris should have learned how to bunt at some point in his development as a player. It would really improve his potential to make a contribution.

Ol' No. 2
09-05-2005, 06:00 PM
I, for one, would not. When you think about players off the bench during the playoffs, you think about someone coming to bat late in a tie game and needing to bunt to move a runner into scoring position. Harris can't bunt; or at least I can't remember ever seeing him execute a bunt. Perez and Ozuma can bunt, not sure about Gload. Ozuma's a better hitter than Harris. Blum can play 2nd base if we need him to do it, maybe not as good as Harris but good enough.

For all the other reasons that have been mentioned in the thread, I think Harris is the odd man out in regard to the playoff roster. Harris is the least likely to come through with a hit or a productive out of all of those on the bubble. Harris can run, but so can Ozuma.

Harris should have learned how to bunt at some point in his development as a player. It would really improve his potential to make a contribution.You should watch with your eyes. Harris has 4 sac bunts this season, which, when you consider the small number of plate appearances, is pretty high.

Ozuna is NOT likely to be used as a pinch hitter. Who's he going to PH for? Since he's not a better hitter than any of the starting righties, it would have to be a lefty. And he's not likely to PH for Podsednik or Pierzynski. He's strictly a pinch runner. And as a pinch runner, Harris is better hands down.

Mr. White Sox
09-05-2005, 06:03 PM
You should watch with your eyes. Harris has 4 sac bunts this season, which, when you consider the small number of plate appearances, is pretty high.

Ozuna is NOT likely to be used as a pinch hitter. Who's he going to PH for? Since he's not a better hitter than any of the starting righties, it would have to be a lefty. And he's not likely to PH for Podsednik or Pierzynski. He's strictly a pinch runner. And as a pinch runner, Harris is better hands down.

The point is moot anyway. Ozzie will take Ozuna over Willie.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-05-2005, 06:04 PM
You should watch with your eyes. Harris has 4 sac bunts this season, which, when you consider the small number of plate appearances, is pretty high.

God help us if the White Sox are ever in a position where EITHER Wee-Willie or Pablo are counted on to get down a bunt.

:o:

Daver
09-05-2005, 06:06 PM
God help us if the White Sox are ever in a position where EITHER Wee-Willie or Pablo are counted on to get down a bunt.

:o:

Teach them to lean into one instead.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-05-2005, 06:09 PM
Teach them to lean into one instead.

If either of these two dopes makes the playoff roster, I expect the Sox to retailor their shirt real loose and blousy. If it works for Craig Biggio, it can work for us, too.

:wink:

Ol' No. 2
09-05-2005, 06:12 PM
The point is moot anyway. Ozzie will take Ozuna over Willie.Not necessarily. There's room for both if Gload is left out. And given that they've treated him like a leper all year, I would't be a bit surprised.

JB98
09-05-2005, 08:31 PM
IMO Gload is a better defensive firstbaseman than Blum and much better offensively. Yet last night when Ozzie wanted to let Paul have the night off and just DH he used the sub .200 hitting Blum at first base. I'm afraid Ross has landed in somebody's doghouse and isn't about to make a postseason roster.

I think Ozzie gave Blum the start because we were facing a left-handed pitcher. The righty-lefty thing was the reason Gload was left on the bench.

Mohoney
09-05-2005, 09:09 PM
He's strictly a pinch runner. And as a pinch runner, Harris is better hands down.

Ozuna's more than a pinch runner. He's the primary backup SS in the playoffs, too. That's a position that Willie can't play, especially in a playoff game where so much is at stake.

Think about if Uribe rolls an ankle or gets hit by a pitch in a playoff game, and we have Willie instead of Ozuna on the bench. We would then have to either leave Uribe in the game, risking losing him for an extended period of time, or play Blum at one of his weaker positions.

Think about if the same thing happens to Paulie, and we have Willie on the bench instead of Gload. The same scenario plays out.

If the same thing happened to Iguchi, Ozuna and Blum at least give us options, although I admit that Willie would be preferable here.

Keeping Ozuna and Gload ensures two backup options at each of the infield positions, while keeping Harris creates a situation where we have 3 backups at 2B and only one backup at 1B, 3B, and SS.

I would like Blum's role to be the #2 option at 3B, and the #3 option at the rest of the infield positions, which is what happens if we keep Ozuna and Gload. If we keep Willie instead of Gload, Blum would then be the #2 option at 1B, 3B, AND SS, and that doesn't really hedge our bets too well when we also factor in Crede's health concerns at 3B.

Ol' No. 2
09-05-2005, 09:25 PM
Ozuna's more than a pinch runner. He's the primary backup SS in the playoffs, too. That's a position that Willie can't play, especially in a playoff game where so much is at stake.

Think about if Uribe rolls an ankle or gets hit by a pitch in a playoff game, and we have Willie instead of Ozuna on the bench. We would then have to either leave Uribe in the game, risking losing him for an extended period of time, or play Blum at one of his weaker positions.

Think about if the same thing happens to Paulie, and we have Willie on the bench instead of Gload. The same scenario plays out.

If the same thing happened to Iguchi, Ozuna and Blum at least give us options, although I admit that Willie would be preferable here.

Keeping Ozuna and Gload ensures two backup options at each of the infield positions, while keeping Harris creates a situation where we have 3 backups at 2B and only one backup at 1B, 3B, and SS.

I would like Blum's role to be the #2 option at 3B, and the #3 option at the rest of the infield positions, which is what happens if we keep Ozuna and Gload. If we keep Willie instead of Gload, Blum would then be the #2 option at 1B, 3B, AND SS, and that doesn't really hedge our bets too well when we also factor in Crede's health concerns at 3B.Blum would be the primary backup at 3B and SS. His main value is that he can play all four. You'd certainly never want to see him come to the plate if you can avoid it. That gives you the luxury of keeping a guy on the roster just for pinch-running duties. You don't have enough roster space to plan two-deep replacements at each position without compromising the other roles the bench players have to fill.

If you think about the situations you're likely to need a PH, it's almost certainly against a RHP. Against a LHP there's no one on the bench that's significantly better than what's in the lineup. Willie is a better hitter against RHP than either Ozuna or Blum, so he would have more value as a pinch hitter simply because of the matchups. Dumping Ozuna also gives you the option of keeping Gload, another lefty, for pinch-hitting duties.

If it were up to me, Ozuna would be the odd man out.

maurice
09-06-2005, 12:58 PM
It's so nice when people declare themselves the winner of an argument and leave for four days.

Excuse me for not spending my Labor Day weekend glued to a computer and waiting for the next idiotic claim that the Sox only have 4 OFers and that Timo Perez is a valuable defensive player. I have a life outside of the Internet.

I'm hardly a FOTP, but since the only evidence I have of Everett and Ozuna being an equal to Perez is your Eyes and some 28 MLB games this season I tend to not trust your position.

That's fine, but you have no evidence at all . . . just a bunch of nonsensical pro-Timo boosterism and strawman arguments like this one:

8 for 8 is pretty good but hardly evidence of great OF play.

Nobody said that Everett and Ozuna were "great," but they're clearly adequate as emergency replacements in LF. Moreover, Timo isn't great either, and it's not just my opinion. Again, even Timo's biggest fan (Ozzie) has acknowledged his shortcomings by pulling him in favor of a defensive replacement this season.

Given Timo's utter lack of major-league hitting ability and speed, his lack of great defensive ability means that he's not a major-league ballplayer and, thus, doesn't deserve $1 million dollars and lots of PT on the best team in the AL. He certainly doesn't belong on the playoff roster ahead of players with actually useful skills. I agree with folks who say that Ozzie will put him there. I'm just pointing out that Ozzie's presumed decision is unreasonable and (as evidenced by the pro-Timo posts in this thread) completely unsupportable.

Banix12
09-06-2005, 03:01 PM
[/color]

Excuse me for not spending my Labor Day weekend glued to a computer and waiting for the next idiotic claim that the Sox only have 4 OFers and that Timo Perez is a valuable defensive player. I have a life outside of the Internet.



That's fine, but you have no evidence at all . . . just a bunch of nonsensical pro-Timo boosterism and strawman arguments like this one:



Nobody said that Everett and Ozuna were "great," but they're clearly adequate as emergency replacements in LF. Moreover, Timo isn't great either, and it's not just my opinion. Again, even Timo's biggest fan (Ozzie) has acknowledged his shortcomings by pulling him in favor of a defensive replacement this season.

Given Timo's utter lack of major-league hitting ability and speed, his lack of great defensive ability means that he's not a major-league ballplayer and, thus, doesn't deserve $1 million dollars and lots of PT on the best team in the AL. He certainly doesn't belong on the playoff roster ahead of players with actually useful skills. I agree with folks who say that Ozzie will put him there. I'm just pointing out that Ozzie's presumed decision is unreasonable and (as evidenced by the pro-Timo posts in this thread) completely unsupportable.


I was waiting for this. Sorry for the sarcasm, probably should have erased it. As for your other comments, I just don't care anymore. We'll have to agree to disagree on this point.

maurice
09-06-2005, 03:17 PM
Everybody at WSI loves sarcasm.
:D:

DickAllen72
09-06-2005, 03:48 PM
Everybody at WSI loves sarcasm.
:D:
Should that have been in teal? :D: