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Roof Shot
08-31-2005, 10:11 PM
Where is the outcry? If the Sox don't pick up a bat somewhere within the next hour will anyone else be upset? Sox management has always said they will improve the club if the fans come out. Attendance has been great. One more hour to go Kenny. Please get us some help!

BeviBall!
08-31-2005, 10:22 PM
Angry, no. Upset, absolutely.

Optipessimism
08-31-2005, 10:24 PM
No, because it seems that anyone available we could use isn't worth the moon, and I have a feeling that's what teams have been asking for all along.

I really would have liked Huff, Griffey, or some other big LH bat to stick in the middle of that lineup, but apparently the Rays were asking for way too much for Aubrey and the Reds for some reason don't want to rebuild with talent. Just about every single player on this team could be upgraded one way or another, but since a LH power bat was our main need, and IMO our only pressing need, I won't be upset that nothing was done.

Outside of a nice crop of relievers, the FA market is going to be very weak next offseason. I think there will be a lot of trades that go down and at least KW saved his bargaining chips for a time when he could actually get from them what they're worth.

greenpeach
08-31-2005, 10:24 PM
Where is the outcry? If the Sox don't pick up a bat somewhere within the next hour will anyone else be angry? Sox management has always said they will improve the club if the fans come out. Attendance has been great. One more hour to go Kenny. Please get us some help!

I'd be furious. But hardly surprised.

"The future is now." --George Allen

Banix12
08-31-2005, 10:33 PM
Angry is probably too strong a word, slightly dissapointed would be closer to my feeling.

I agree with Optipessimism, the market was just crazy this season. Everybody a bit to rediculous in their demands. In the market this year I am not in the least bit suprised that nothing seems to be happening.

Soxzilla
08-31-2005, 10:36 PM
Definitely upset. The good thing, though, is that no one else seems to be making moves. It isn't like we are stuck in a ditch and all the other contenders are racing around the highway dealin'.

I think that just goes to show how poor the market is right now. Which sucks, because I don't ever remember the deadlines being this slow.

It only happens when the Sox are in their best position to win the WS in 10 years.:(:

EDIT - I still like our guys that we will be going to war with. Soon, everything will start clicking like it did early in the season, and then watch out. We will be whoopin' teams around.

Jjav829
08-31-2005, 10:38 PM
I'm just upset at the whole thing. It figures that the one year where we finally make some noise and appear to have the pitching to lead us in the playoffs, no one is selling off and we aren't able to make any upgrades at all. :(:

Flight #24
08-31-2005, 10:42 PM
I'm just upset at the whole thing. It figures that the one year where we finally make some noise and appear to have the pitching to lead us in the playoffs, no one is selling off and we aren't able to make any upgrades at all. :(:

Look at it this way: We'll have the same pitching next year, and our prospects will be worth that much more because they'll be that much closer to the bigs.

Unlike 2000, the window here is a lot larger, IMO......Plus, I haven't lost faith in this team's ability to go on a streak in the postseason. Let's remember that much of the "down streak" coincided with injuries to Podsednik, Konerko, Crede and the dog days that have the overall play (D, pitching) down. All those are factors that should go away over the next week or 2.

We won't be a great offense, but we should start getting back to the ability to scratch out runs ala earlier in the year, and I have to believe the pitching & D will be back.

Jjav829
08-31-2005, 10:51 PM
Look at it this way: We'll have the same pitching next year, and our prospects will be worth that much more because they'll be that much closer to the bigs.

Unlike 2000, the window here is a lot larger, IMO......Plus, I haven't lost faith in this team's ability to go on a streak in the postseason. Let's remember that much of the "down streak" coincided with injuries to Podsednik, Konerko, Crede and the dog days that have the overall play (D, pitching) down. All those are factors that should go away over the next week or 2.

We won't be a great offense, but we should start getting back to the ability to scratch out runs ala earlier in the year, and I have to believe the pitching & D will be back.

Ahh screw next year. We have no clue what next year will bring. Even if the same pitchers are back, there's no guarantee we'll have the same quality pitching. Garland could revert back to his pre-2005 form. Ditto for Contreras. El Duque could get hurt again. Freddy or Buehrle could suffer some freak injury that puts them out for a while. Obviously not all of these things will happen, but they're just examples of the types of things that can change the outlook of a team from year-to-year.

The Sox opportunity is this year. We have no idea how good this team will be next year. And the division will get even better next year. Detroit will supposedly start to move their payroll over $100 million. They'll be major players for the big free agents. Cleveland's young talent will be even more experienced. And you know Terry Ryan will find some way to get the Twins back into the race. So the division is going to be even tougher next year.

There are just too many variables to try to say how good this team will be next year. We could jump out to a similar start and ride it to a division win. Or we could start out next year like we played in August this year and struggle just to stay in the race. This team's best chance to win is right now.

SoxSpeed22
08-31-2005, 10:53 PM
Ahh screw next year.THANK YOU! THERE IS NO NEXT YEAR! I WANT IT NOW!
EDIT: the caps represent mood.

beckett21
08-31-2005, 10:55 PM
I'm just upset at the whole thing. It figures that the one year where we finally make some noise and appear to have the pitching to lead us in the playoffs, no one is selling off and we aren't able to make any upgrades at all. :(:

Yep.

I have no doubt that KW has been working the phones trying to get a deal done. No one seems to be dealing this year.

Unregistered
08-31-2005, 10:56 PM
4 minutes and counting...

santo=dorf
08-31-2005, 10:57 PM
For those of you :whiner: for a trade, will you not bitch if KW gives up Rogo, Chris Young, and Gio Gonzalez for another bat?

It takes two to make a trade, it's not like there's some magical seasonal store that opens up from August 1st-August 31st.

We should all be thankful that KW is at least trying and working on getting another bat for this team.

Letmehearya
08-31-2005, 10:59 PM
I will be upset. I admit that for about 2 weeks I actually believed JR might actually be willing to open the pocketbook, take on a contract that he otherwise wouldn't in order to win a World Series. But ...... unfortunately we are owned by JR and profits come before winning. Such is the lamentable fate of being a Sox fan for life.

Domeshot17
08-31-2005, 11:01 PM
DING

Nobody

This is more disheartning than the Rangers series.

Unregistered
08-31-2005, 11:02 PM
I will be upset. I admit that for about 2 weeks I actually believed JR might actually be willing to open the pocketbook, take on a contract that he otherwise wouldn't in order to win a World Series. But ...... unfortunately we are owned by JR and profits come before winning. Such is the lamentable fate of being a Sox fan for life. :rolleyes: Give it a rest. You've been waving the "Reinsdorf is Cheap" flag since you registered here. If you really think this is an issue of JR not wanting to spend money, then you haven't been paying attention.

As someone already said, it takes two to make a trade - you can't just buy players at this point if no one is interested.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=3215

SoxSpeed22
08-31-2005, 11:03 PM
For those of you :whiner: for a trade, will you not bitch if KW gives up Rogo, Chris Young, and Gio Gonzalez for another bat?

It takes two to make a trade, it's not like there's some magical seasonal store that opens up from August 1st-August 31st.

We should all be thankful that KW is at least trying and working on getting another bat for this team.Thanks for the slap in the face to bring me back to reality. If everyone thought that prospects outweigh an established bat, in other words, if the GMs thought of future concsequences only, then no trades would be made. Rogo, Young and GG better help us though.

soxfan43
08-31-2005, 11:05 PM
well after all the whining and moaning about no deals, maybe people can just focus and rally on what we got and stop worrying about the other crap. it's time for ozzie to rally the troops get out of this funk

propaneman
08-31-2005, 11:05 PM
:ralomar: I wish KW would have called me!

SOX ADDICT '73
08-31-2005, 11:09 PM
I will be upset. I admit that for about 2 weeks I actually believed JR might actually be willing to open the pocketbook, take on a contract that he otherwise wouldn't in order to win a World Series. But ...... unfortunately we are owned by JR and profits come before winning. Such is the lamentable fate of being a Sox fan for life.
Not once did I ever hear that the Reds would be willing to deal Griffey if the Sox would take on the entire contract. If such an offer was ever put on the table, I have a feeling that JR would have given KW the green light.

Lindner & Co. seemed to get off on teasing the Sox, before both the non-waiver deadline and today. Chalk it up to a league-wide disdain for the White Sox in general or Reinsdorf in particular. If the Cubs had been seeking Griffey, I'm sure the Reds would have been willing to pay his whole contract and take Corey Patterson in exchange.

Madvora
08-31-2005, 11:11 PM
Well? Time's been up for 11 minutes now!
I'm dying!

Deuce
08-31-2005, 11:14 PM
I can think of four things worse than not picking anyone up...

:bkoch::ritchie:shammy:hitless

ChiWhiteSox1337
08-31-2005, 11:15 PM
I guess I'm somewhat disappointed in MYSELF because I really bought into the hype of the possibility of getting Griffey Jr, but I'm not going to be angry at KW. The lack of trades throughout the MLB this season just shows how hard it is to make a deal.

kittle42
08-31-2005, 11:16 PM
I guess I'm somewhat disappointed in MYSELF because I really bought into the hype of the possibility of getting Griffey Jr, but I'm not going to be angry at KW. The lack of trades throughout the MLB this season just shows how hard it is to make a deal.

Right on the button. No one did anything in July. No one did anything now. Strange year - and of course the unwillingness to deal has to happen the year we could have bulked up for the playoffs.

Nellie_Fox
08-31-2005, 11:18 PM
I will be upset. I admit that for about 2 weeks I actually believed JR might actually be willing to open the pocketbook, take on a contract that he otherwise wouldn't in order to win a World Series. But ...... unfortunately we are owned by JR and profits come before winning. Such is the lamentable fate of being a Sox fan for life.Please, enlighten me. You obviously have inside information of some deal that could have been made had JR only been willing to open the pocketbook. Please let the rest of us in on this deal, what the terms were, who the principals in the trade would have been, so we can join you in your outrage. Because what I have seen is a market in which there are still so many teams in contention that no one is selling, everyone is buying. You can't make a trade when the other team isn't willing (apparently the case in the Griffey deal) or is asking for something insane in return.

Yes, folks, there is a limit to just how far Kenny should be expected to bend over to bring in another bat, with no guarantee that it would result in a world championship.

SOecks
08-31-2005, 11:20 PM
Is it safe to assume that nothing happened for sure at this point, or could it have not come across the news wires yet?

SouthSide_HitMen
08-31-2005, 11:35 PM
I will be upset. I admit that for about 2 weeks I actually believed JR might actually be willing to open the pocketbook, take on a contract that he otherwise wouldn't in order to win a World Series. But ...... unfortunately we are owned by JR and profits come before winning. Such is the lamentable fate of being a Sox fan for life.

:dunno: - How can JR be cheap if he signed off on the Griffey deal in July where we took on 60% of his salary?

It takes two to trade. The few teams out of it at the deadline asked for the Moon for a Moon Pie. That is why these teams are always on the bottom of the standings (Tampa, Cincinnati, Kansas City).

TaylorStSox
08-31-2005, 11:50 PM
Why does everyone think they have the pulse of this organization? Everyone seems to know that a deal was imminent or that there were no deals pending. It's all BS. Nobody knows what was going on. It's all speculation.

It's pretty stupid to get worked up over things that are out of your control IMO.

I'd rather hold on to our prospects and make a run with what we have. Once you get to the playoff's, it's a new season.

We're set to make a run next year too. Our pen is locked up. We have 6 capable to excellent starters. The only significant position player we'll probably lose is the most overated IMO. The bullpen FA market looks pretty damn good. We have more money to spend. We have prospects to move in the off season.


















LTP is leading AAA in home runs. Life is good. :redneck

SouthSide_HitMen
08-31-2005, 11:54 PM
I can think of four things worse than not picking anyone up...

:bkoch::ritchie:shammy:hitless


You forgot us:

http://www.100megspopup.com/msdannyfan/images/bretboone111214.jpghttp://images.allposters.com/images/PHO/862113_a.jpghttp://i.a.cnn.net/si/images/baseball/mlb/players/5301.jpghttp://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/5420.jpghttp://images.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/_photos/2001-06-29-roost-lowell.jpghttp://images.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/_photos/2004-10-09-lima-ins.jpg

Banix12
09-01-2005, 12:24 AM
All I know is Kenny's history is of being a very aggressive trader. If there is a trade out there that he can make that he beleives will help the team he usually will make it. The fact that nothing signifigant got done just tells me that there were no deals that he could reasonably make.

I'm dissapointed nothing got done but I don't think that either Kenny or JR have any real blame in this. It was just a weird trading season.

JB98
09-01-2005, 12:31 AM
All I know is Kenny's history is of being a very aggressive trader. If there is a trade out there that he can make that he beleives will help the team he usually will make it. The fact that nothing signifigant got done just tells me that there were no deals that he could reasonably make.

I'm dissapointed nothing got done but I don't think that either Kenny or JR have any real blame in this. It was just a weird trading season.

Supposedly, Hendry wanted a "top prospect" for Walker. Yeah, like someone is going to give that up to rent a player for 30 games plus playoffs. Can you imagine trading B-Mac for Walker? I'd hurl.

Domeshot17
09-01-2005, 12:37 AM
well, for anyone holding out a deal could come through late on the wire, its 1230 at night Cetral time, hour and half post deadline. If a deal came through THIS LATE, odds are the player acquired wont make it onto the 40 man roster in time.

Ozzie got his wish. He said in july I dont want anyone, I want these guys. They better show us something in September, Or Ozzie Kenny and the rest of chicago will look like this :redface: .

I think this is a good team. I think the pitching needs to step back up. And the offense and D needs to do the Jobs.

August in general, Kenny and the Team, was just frusterating.

Turn it around in September Boys, lets get into October, and get there Strong.

Fuller_Schettman
09-01-2005, 12:55 AM
There are two kinds of people:

Those who have perspective

Those who need perspective

Unfortunately, lately we have seen too much of the latter.

It is September now. We have all of our bullets (and apparently mullets).
In the words of the late great Harry Mandelbaum "It's GO time!"

Then again, I just might be...

CYGarland20
09-01-2005, 01:07 AM
Ozzie got his wish. He said in july I dont want anyone, I want these guys. They better show us something in September, Or Ozzie Kenny and the rest of chicago will look like this. :redface:

August in general, Kenny and the Team, was just frustrating.

I am very disappointed KW couldn't get anything done, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. It would have been AWESOME if we got Griffey. Ditto that for Guardado. Even if we could have got Walker it would have been a nice boost. But looks like were going to have to go to war w/ what we got. This year I thought could have been VERY special if we could have just added a few more pieces. I guess it just wasn't meant to be :(: ........Personally, I think we'll be lucky to make it past the 1st round, but i guess you never know.........

Soxfest
09-01-2005, 02:35 AM
I am very suprised Sox got no one but Blum. so much for the old we can get someone in June or July comment every year KW has been GM.sometimes you have to overpay.

iamkoza
09-01-2005, 03:09 AM
http://tbs.com/TBS/Images/Dynamic/i10/seinfeld_jerry_240x260_052820041524.jpg "What's the deal with the White Sox and second half mediocrity?"

BeviBall!
09-01-2005, 07:21 AM
If it was the Yankees, Boston or the flubbies that wanted Griffey... they might have gotten him. It's painfully obvious that other teams won't bend over backwards to help us out like they do for certain other teams.

Ibanez was there to be had. This sucks.

harwar
09-01-2005, 07:39 AM
I think the whole Griffey thing was just the cub media sitting back and watching us twitch everytime they said something about jr.
Most of those rumors were started by local papers.
Bruce levine,along with espn,is one of the worst instigators and they just seem to love yanking our collective White Sox chain.
I hope levine is not the official enemy de camp next year.
Why do we need a stinking cub fan on the White Sox post game show anyway.
I'm glad all that **** is behind us.
Its now time to get to work!

duke of dorwood
09-01-2005, 07:50 AM
Cheap will always be the M.O. while this

:reinsy

Is in Control

wdelaney72
09-01-2005, 08:50 AM
Since there was basically no movement ANYWHERE, I'll have to be disappointed instead of angry. I'm sure Kenny tried to make something happen.

BeviBall!
09-01-2005, 08:53 AM
Since there was basically no movement ANYWHERE, I'll have to be disappointed instead of angry. I'm sure Kenny tried to make something happen.

People keep saying this but the Yankees added Bellhorn, Chacon and Lawton. The Red Sox got Graffy, the Braves got Farnsworth, Padres got Randa and the A's got Witasik and Payton.

We got Blum.

mjmcend
09-01-2005, 09:15 AM
People keep saying this but the Yankees added Bellhorn, Chacon and Lawton. The Red Sox got Graffy, the Braves got Farnsworth, Padres got Randa and the A's got Witasik and Payton.

We got Blum.


Yeah but Blum is better than Bellhorn, and Randa and Graf are not huge improvemnts over Blum and would not have displaced any starters, plus Randa (as far as I know) can only play 3rd and is not a super utility guy like we need. We have no need for any more outfielders, although Payton and Lawton would be better than Timo, but who the hell knew that Payton would be this good in Oakland no less. Chacon we have absolutly no need for, and even if Hermanson cannot pitch another inning this year I would rather Politte, Cotts, Marte, or Jenks close before Farnsworth.

Basically all that got traded was medocirity, in which Blum falls smack dab in the middle. Why the hell should we shuffle around backup players just for the sake of doing it (giving up prospects to boot)? No one even remotely close to an impact player got traded this year, thems the breaks. Kenny is not to blame. Nor is J.R. however cheap and stupid he may be.

ChiSoxBobette
09-01-2005, 09:18 AM
Where is the outcry? If the Sox don't pick up a bat somewhere within the next hour will anyone else be upset? Sox management has always said they will improve the club if the fans come out. Attendance has been great. One more hour to go Kenny. Please get us some help!
Just another JR ploy this team needed a bat and got nothing if they even make the playoffs(which I've already payed for by the way)one and done is all I see them doing.

fquaye149
09-01-2005, 09:24 AM
Good grief - what is with all the people trying to make this about JR.

If you want to blame KW for not vastly overpaying for mild improvements (i.e. Todd Walker) that's your opinion.

However, to call this a JR ploy, to blame JR for being cheap, or to say, and I quote, "Cheap will always be the M.O. while [JR] is in control..."

WHAT? What in the world does that have to do with anything?

White Sox fans, I always thought you were smarter than the other baseball fans...now I realize you would be only if your bitterness and cynicism didn't cloud your judgment past the point of rational thought.

fquaye149
09-01-2005, 09:26 AM
People keep saying this but the Yankees added Bellhorn, Chacon and Lawton. The Red Sox got Graffy, the Braves got Farnsworth, Padres got Randa and the A's got Witasik and Payton.

We got Blum.

a.) the yankees added a bunch of scrubs is what you're saying?

b.) we tried to get Graffy. Inevitably the Royals must have either liked the Red Sox deal better or didn't want to deal within the division. As much as Hangar is going to try to bring this back to two of the three good deals Hendry has made in his tenure, most teams don't want to trade in their division and KC wasn't exactly struggling under an albatross with Graff's contract.

c.) ditto with Farnsworth and the Tigers. Remember how the Tigers thought they could compete with us for a while? Yeah...plus...did we really want to give up big time for a guy who wouldn't even be our closer?

d.) well...maybe if you're shoota this is a good move...at least Blum plays defense.

e.) eh

SoxRule72
09-01-2005, 09:34 AM
The way they've been playing I feel like the wheels are completely off and nothing was done to about it.

I'm trying to stay positive but it's difficult when your 2 best pitchers get lit up while a rookie totally dominates the same lineup.

Pods sits on the DL comes back for 2 days and needs a day off already? I know they played a doubleheader but it sure seems like Ozzie will do anything to get Timo in the lineup.

Flight #24
09-01-2005, 09:43 AM
The way they've been playing I feel like the wheels are completely off and nothing was done to about it.

I'm trying to stay positive but it's difficult when your 2 best pitchers get lit up while a rookie totally dominates the same lineup.

Pods sits on the DL comes back for 2 days and needs a day off already? I know they played a doubleheader but it sure seems like Ozzie will do anything to get Timo in the lineup.

Ummm...did you miss the part where Pods said he wasn't yet 100%? Or the part where there's still a lot of ball left to be played including a number of games in a row? There is 1 off day in all of September, and you want to start playing your catalyst, just coming off of injury and not yet 100% 4 games in 48hrs?

:kukoo:

The execution needs to tighten up, and there's every reason to think it will because that's what they did all year except the past couple of weeks. That's what happens in the dog days. This team will be fine, and a lot of what they're doing is making sure the team is ready & healthy for the postseason.

SoxRule72
09-01-2005, 09:53 AM
Ummm...did you miss the part where Pods said he wasn't yet 100%? Or the part where there's still a lot of ball left to be played including a number of games in a row? There is 1 off day in all of September, and you want to start playing your catalyst, just coming off of injury and not yet 100% 4 games in 48hrs?

:kukoo:

The execution needs to tighten up, and there's every reason to think it will because that's what they did all year except the past couple of weeks. That's what happens in the dog days. This team will be fine, and a lot of what they're doing is making sure the team is ready & healthy for the postseason.

Ok maybe I did miss Pods say he's not 100%, but then what sense does it make to have him play both games of a doubleheader?

U can go with the one day off the rest of the year with other players but Pods is well rested isn't he? He had more than 2 weeks off how much more rest does he need? But really, it's a moot point anyway if he's not 100%.

That's what happens in the dog days? So you're trying to tell me that all teams with 15 game leads always go 12-16 in a month and see their lead shrink to 7 and it's ok that the team is playing like crap because it's the "dog days?" Come on man, real good teams don't lose 7 in a row, real good teams don't get shutdown by mediorce pitching. And you're calling ME crazy???

kittle42
09-01-2005, 10:10 AM
That's what happens in the dog days? So you're trying to tell me that all teams with 15 game leads always go 12-16 in a month and see their lead shrink to 7 and it's ok that the team is playing like crap because it's the "dog days?" Come on man, real good teams don't lose 7 in a row, real good teams don't get shutdown by mediorce pitching. And you're calling ME crazy???

Just when I was about to jump down your throat, and several others here, for not having perspective and not having facts straight, you crank out this little gem - you are absolutely right on some of that. "Dog days" and "If we play .500 the rest of the way" etc. is a load. Where are the other top teams (NL West does not count) having these types of troubles night now? Were the Yankees' Dog Days in April and May? Are we happy limping into the playoffs, crossing our fingers that once the Sox get there, they'll return to first-half form?

Real good teams do, occasionally, lose 7 in a row, however, and do get shut down - on occasion- by mediocre pitching, so I debate you on those points.

SoxRule72
09-01-2005, 10:22 AM
Just when I was about to jump down your throat, and several others here, for not having perspective and not having facts straight, you crank out this little gem - you are absolutely right on some of that. "Dog days" and "If we play .500 the rest of the way" etc. is a load. Where are the other top teams (NL West does not count) having these types of troubles night now? Were the Yankees' Dog Days in April and May? Are we happy limping into the playoffs, crossing our fingers that once the Sox get there, they'll return to first-half form?

Real good teams do, occasionally, lose 7 in a row, however, and do get shut down - on occasion- by mediocre pitching, so I debate you on those points.

Ok, perhaps "on occassion" but on a regular basis? To answer your question about limping into the playoffs. I think most would agree if the Sox get in by the skin of their teeth, playing horribly etc etc they'd almost be a lock to lose in the first round. What I'm also concerned about is home field advantage, it seemed home field for the entire playoffs was theirs but if the boys can't turn it around soon they might end up having to play Oakland/Angels in their parks. I got my fingers crossed though.

Unregistered
09-01-2005, 10:23 AM
Ok, perhaps "on occassion" but on a regular basis? To answer your question about limping into the playoffs. I think most would agree if the Sox get in by the skin of their teeth, playing horribly etc etc they'd almost be a lock to lose in the first round. What I'm also concerned about is home field advantage, it seemed home field for the entire playoffs was theirs but if the boys can't turn it around soon they might end up having to play Oakland/Angels in their parks. I got my fingers crossed though.If their recent record at home is to be believed, that might be a blessing in disguise.

wdelaney72
09-01-2005, 10:33 AM
People keep saying this but the Yankees added Bellhorn, Chacon and Lawton. The Red Sox got Graffy, the Braves got Farnsworth, Padres got Randa and the A's got Witasik and Payton.

We got Blum.

None of these guys addresses issues affectnig the White sox. The Yankees can have Bellhorn and all the strike outs that go with him.

You might make an argument for Lawton, but still, he's not that much of an offensive upgrade.

BNLSox
09-01-2005, 10:35 AM
The ESPN Radio morning guy out here (Cow Herd, something or other) called our team a fraud. If we fail to make the playoffs (gasp) or get knocked out in the first round, he would appear right. But WSI peeps, we all saw the magic with our own eyes. A team batting well below average playing what the media has deemed, "Ozzie-ball."

This team can return to form and if it does so we didn't need that extra player. What we need is faith and focus for the homestretch. With Cleveland drawing closer than we would like and homefield advantage becoming a very rocky ground, the boys finally have something to play for and have a whole month of divisional baseball to get comfortable and get some momentum rolling.

Have faith and also remember that if this team does end up sinking like a rock, it gave us some of the most amazing moments of our tenure as sox fans.

That being said, if they fail to hold the AL Central or get swept out of the first round, I may need a year off.

BeviBall!
09-01-2005, 10:40 AM
a.) the yankees added a bunch of scrubs is what you're saying?

Chacon and Lawton are hardly scrubs...

My point is, there were players out there and teams made trades. Not condemming KW for this, but teams did make moves... so making the statement "no one did anything" is completely false.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-01-2005, 10:40 AM
No names were traded either at the July 31 deadline or the August 31 deadline, and certainly no names as big as Ken Griffey, Jr. either. The Reds don't dispute that it was their own owner who spiked the deal with the White Sox and the excuse wasn't over money or compensation. It was the owner's expressed concern that his new partners wouldn't invest in the team unless Griffey was kept on the Reds roster.

Sorry. We're just going to have to give Kenny Williams the benefit of the doubt on this one. NOBODY made a move anywhere near as big as the Griffey deal, and everyone agrees it was the Reds who spiked it over non-compensatory issues.

But please... let's whine about it anyway. Isn't that what whiny Sox Fans do best? Or more precisely, isn't that what whiny Sox Fans ALWAYS do?

:(:

mdep524
09-01-2005, 10:51 AM
If it was the Yankees, Boston or the flubbies that wanted Griffey... they might have gotten him. It's painfully obvious that other teams won't bend over backwards to help us out like they do for certain other teams.

Ibanez was there to be had. This sucks. I wonder how much of this is true and how much is just our WSI conspiracy imagination.

I do feel like if it was the Yankees going after Griffey there would be a lot more national media attention and pressure on the deal to get done, (constant SC updates, analysis, interviews, etc.) because it would be a bigger story- "best for Griffey," "best for baseball," etc. When the DBacks considered trading Randy Johnson, both at last year's deadline and in the offseason, the coverage was enormous, and the Yankees were benefited by it. The Cubs also get ever single benefit of the doubt in those situations.

The Sox almost seemed to be held hostage by their success, as other teams raised the price for their players. I know KW has a history of overpaying a little, but other GMs were trying to rob him blind. Ridiculous.

Of course, no trades were made at all, so it was just bad luck that the 2005 deadline(s) were a bust....in the year the Sox were in competition.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-01-2005, 10:57 AM
Of course, no trades were made at all, so it was just bad luck that the 2005 deadline(s) were a bust....in the year the Sox were in competition.

In fairness, nobody else improved themselves either. The Sox will just have to make do with the ballclub that managed the best record in the league the last five months... assuming we can catch Cleveland, of course.

:cool:

Ol' No. 2
09-01-2005, 11:01 AM
Ok maybe I did miss Pods say he's not 100%, but then what sense does it make to have him play both games of a doubleheader?

U can go with the one day off the rest of the year with other players but Pods is well rested isn't he? He had more than 2 weeks off how much more rest does he need? But really, it's a moot point anyway if he's not 100%.

That's what happens in the dog days? So you're trying to tell me that all teams with 15 game leads always go 12-16 in a month and see their lead shrink to 7 and it's ok that the team is playing like crap because it's the "dog days?" Come on man, real good teams don't lose 7 in a row, real good teams don't get shutdown by mediorce pitching. And you're calling ME crazy???Ozzie has bungled his lineup choices all year. Resting guys who obviously don't need rest, leaving starters in too long, taking starters out too soon, etc. etc. With a decent manager, they could be 7 games up with the best record in the league right now. Oh, wait...:rolleyes:

mdep524
09-01-2005, 11:01 AM
In fairness, nobody else improved themselves either. The Sox will just have to make do with the ballclub that managed the best record in the league the last five months... assuming we can catch Cleveland, of course.

:cool:
Exactly, that was what I was trying to point out. It's a bummer the Sox couldn't make any moves (not their own fault mostly), but the sting is lessened by the fact nobody else was able to deal either. No other team improved themselves, and they were all more in need than the Sox were.

Ol' No. 2
09-01-2005, 11:07 AM
Exactly, that was what I was trying to point out. It's a bummer the Sox couldn't make any moves (not their own fault mostly), but the sting is lessened by the fact nobody else was able to deal either. No other team improved themselves, and they were all more in need than the Sox were.Thank you for succinctly expressing the key point. The Sox don't need to make a desperate move to catch anybody. This is the lineup that has been in first place all season and has the best record in the league. But for 3 games against the Angels, they have all divisional games from here on out. And they have KILLED the other teams in the division.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-01-2005, 11:10 AM
Exactly, that was what I was trying to point out. It's a bummer the Sox couldn't make any moves (not their own fault mostly), but the sting is lessened by the fact nobody else was able to deal either. No other team improved themselves, and they were all more in need than the Sox were.

Yep. There is really only one way to stop the bellyaching around here and that is for the Sox to start winning. Not just play .500 ball against contenders and non-contenders, but winning and winning in go-away fashion.

We normally identify this sort of behavior with FRONTRUNNERS but I'm sure too many here doth protest they're with the Sox through thick and thin... all evidence to the contrary contained in their posts after every Sox loss and less than flawless victory.

:cool:

shaunburnette
09-01-2005, 11:33 AM
I've been holding back a reply to this thread because of a few reasons. Sure, I am disappointed we did not make any move at deadline #2. Mostly because I've kept reading threads and looking for updates every day for the past 2 months and I just wanted some kind of move to pay me back for my time :smile: .


Moving forward; its time to move on. I usually have a bit of dark cloud syndrome in me but we ARE still 7 games up. We have been able to rest a lot of guys lately and keep the bench bats ready while keeping a 7 game lead.
We need to start thinking forward. Get excited because the end of the road is near. I really do not think we are going to lose this division lead to Cleveland in the last month.

Every post in this thread is like a repeat of another before it. Its over, its done, Go SOX. If the division race gets even closer than be excited and happy because its good baseball to watch.

One thing I've been saying all season is that I wanted the Sox to get cold and slump around this time of the year. Suck it up, make mistakes, look bad. Looking at past years, the Marlins, Angels, and Diamondbacks all were the HOT team in the last couple weeks of the season. The team that is hottest at the end IMO will be the one that will take it all.

If we were to not of had the last 2 weeks we've had, were we going to run the table like we were all the way through the playoff's? Who really knows but one thing is for sure. I will take the last 2 weeks of horrid baseball anytime over putting those last 2 weeks at the end of September after we've clinched.

OK, I feel better for venting. Maybe it is time to close this thread so we can focus on what we have left. A fresh September and a club that has already learned how to win on a consistant basis. I am confident, I am not worried and I cant WAIT till October.

santo=dorf
09-01-2005, 11:39 AM
Chacon and Lawton are hardly scrubs...

My point is, there were players out there and teams made trades. Not condemming KW for this, but teams did make moves... so making the statement "no one did anything" is completely false.

....and those teams made those trades because they weren't winning their division, and don't have the luxury of owning a 7 game lead.

Would you rather be trailing in your division and see your team trade for Matt Lawton, or would you rather be in the lead by 7 games and not add any more players? :?:

The Yankees, Red Sox, and A's are trying to win games that the Sox already won back in April and May. THEY ARE BEHIND US!!!

Why is this so hard to understand?

Flight #24
09-01-2005, 11:48 AM
Ok maybe I did miss Pods say he's not 100%, but then what sense does it make to have him play both games of a doubleheader?

U can go with the one day off the rest of the year with other players but Pods is well rested isn't he? He had more than 2 weeks off how much more rest does he need? But really, it's a moot point anyway if he's not 100%.

That's what happens in the dog days? So you're trying to tell me that all teams with 15 game leads always go 12-16 in a month and see their lead shrink to 7 and it's ok that the team is playing like crap because it's the "dog days?" Come on man, real good teams don't lose 7 in a row, real good teams don't get shutdown by mediorce pitching. And you're calling ME crazy???

The point is that if you play Podsednik every day the rest of the way, he won't be "rested" for the playoffs - he'll likely be hurt again. So you just commit to resting him regularly. As for the DH, it's probably more restful for him to have a full day off rather than playing every day, but only 1 game on the DH day.

As for the dog days, remember - this team is built on execution. So when execution slips, they're going to have more trouble than teams not built on execution. Also, the "dog days" coincided with injuries, making the Sox worse off than your typical "dog day" team.

When the Red Sox don't execute....that's nothing new, so it doesn't change their record. They win if and when they mash. When the Sox don't execute, it's 100% different because they win because of execution. It's not much more complicated than that.

If you think they won't execute in September, that's your prerogative, and if it happens, yes - they'll struggle. But you'll be choosing to believe in the last 3 weeks over the first 18 or so.

RallyBowl
09-01-2005, 11:51 AM
....and those teams made those trades because they weren't winning their division, and don't have the luxury of owning a 7 game lead.

Would you rather be trailing in your division and see your team trade for Matt Lawton, or would you rather be in the lead by 7 games and not add any more players? :?:

The Yankees, Red Sox, and A's are trying to win games that the Sox already won back in April and May. THEY ARE BEHIND US!!!

Why is this so hard to understand?

Great post. I for one would rather have the latter, which we all in fact do have. A Hall of Famer would have been nice, but the reality is that it never was a reality. We have a solid team, and the last time I checked, a solid team is better and more suited for the post season than a team loaded with high priced talent. The Yankees have that, and they needed Lawton to help them? Give me a break. We collectively enjoy, or should be enjoying, what only fans of one other team (Cards) can. A large lead heading into the homestretch. No Griffey? No problem. We have been winning all year with this team. We can win it all with them. The guys that were traded- I wouldn't want any of them on our team. You all should concentrate your "our team sucks we got no one" energy into "Our team is great we need no one!" energy. It's more fun that way.

fquaye149
09-01-2005, 12:45 PM
Chacon and Lawton are hardly scrubs...

My point is, there were players out there and teams made trades. Not condemming KW for this, but teams did make moves... so making the statement "no one did anything" is completely false.

They're scrubs on this team.

Chacon would be our 7th best starting pitcher.

Lawton would be our 5th best outfielder.

So um, yeah.

Ol' No. 2
09-01-2005, 01:04 PM
They're scrubs on this team.

Chacon would be our 7th best starting pitcher.

Lawton would be our 5th best outfielder.

So um, yeah.I guess when you're the Yankees, it's a lot easier to find players that represent a real improvement. That's quite a statement when you think about it.

IowaSox1971
09-01-2005, 01:20 PM
We did need to somehow acquire another bat, such as Walker or Ibanez or whoever. This lineup needs somebody who can step in and hit whenever someone has a nagging injury or needs a rest.

Ozzie's curious lineups in recent games have not helped. Wasn't Dye out of the lineup on Sunday against Moyer? Why would this be done when Dye had just gone 4-for-4 for the previous night and we were facing a lefty? When guys are hot, play them. When they're not, rest them. If you don't play the guys who are swinging the bat well, it's going to be that much tougher to score runs.

1917
09-01-2005, 01:28 PM
We did need to somehow acquire another bat, such as Walker or Ibanez or whoever. This lineup needs somebody who can step in and hit whenever someone has a nagging injury or needs a rest.

Ozzie's curious lineups in recent games have not helped. Wasn't Dye out of the lineup on Sunday against Moyer? Why would this be done when Dye had just gone 4-for-4 for the previous night and we were facing a lefty? When guys are hot, play them. When they're not, rest them. If you don't play the guys who are swinging the bat well, it's going to be that much tougher to score runs.

He did it yesterday with resting Pods, Iguchi, and Carl and playing the 4 Horsemen (Timo, Blum, Ozuna, and Willie), right when I saw that lineup I knew we were done...and the night before Pods and Iguchi really sparked the offense, stealing hitting getting guys over, and the next day they were grabbing bench, I just don't understand 1 bit.

Ol' No. 2
09-01-2005, 01:44 PM
He did it yesterday with resting Pods, Iguchi, and Carl and playing the 4 Horsemen (Timo, Blum, Ozuna, and Willie), right when I saw that lineup I knew we were done...and the night before Pods and Iguchi really sparked the offense, stealing hitting getting guys over, and the next day they were grabbing bench, I just don't understand 1 bit.So your plan is to rest somebody different each day. That way you NEVER put your best lineup out there. Makes sense to me.

1917
09-01-2005, 02:02 PM
So your plan is to rest somebody different each day. That way you NEVER put your best lineup out there. Makes sense to me.

I just think with being on the verge of losing 3 of 4 it wasn't the best idea to play all 4 of them....and when your on a awful losing streak and trying to wrap up a Division, then the best players play...period. That what they get paid MILLIONS to do.

Ol' No. 2
09-01-2005, 02:06 PM
I just think with being on the verge of losing 3 of 4 it wasn't the best idea to play all 4 of them....and when your on a awful losing streak and trying to wrap up a Division, then the best players play...period. That what they get paid MILLIONS to do.I didn't know that fatigue and injury was related to the size of your bank account.

And how, exactly, does this square with the fact that it was the guys that you DON'T want in the lineup that did pretty much all the hitting yesterday?

Lip Man 1
09-01-2005, 03:11 PM
No.2:

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and again. I guess I don't understand this constant lineup changing myself. I can see it occasionally based on a particular pitcher but this has been an on-going thing.

Athletes today are better conditioned, stronger, faster, in many cases healthier then thirty or forty years ago. Those guys had no trouble playing 150 games a year, why can't the players today?

Lip

Ol' No. 2
09-01-2005, 03:29 PM
No.2:

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and again. I guess I don't understand this constant lineup changing myself. I can see it occasionally based on a particular pitcher but this has been an on-going thing.

Athletes today are better conditioned, stronger, faster, in many cases healthier then thirty or forty years ago. Those guys had no trouble playing 150 games a year, why can't the players today?

LipThey also had 4 man rotations, travelled by train, etc. etc. The question isn't CAN THEY, but will they be at a disadvantage relative to other teams (or conversely, will they be at an advantage if they can get more rest). Ozzie seems to believe they will and I agree with him. Late in the season, all those dings and bruises and mild sprains start to accumulate, and that's not to mention the muscle pulls that never really heal until the off-season. They are a long way from being as fresh as they were in April, and anything that gets them closer to 100% healthy has to be viewed as a good thing. If anyone thinks Ozzie is the only manager who shuffles lineups around, just look around. They all do it.

People keep complaining about "getaway day" lineups, but when you look at their records, these lineups don't do significantly worse than the regulars. It seems more than a little ridiculous to be carping about the subs in yesterday's lineups when it's the subs who accounted for most of what little offense there was.:?:

shaunburnette
09-01-2005, 03:34 PM
If anyone thinks Ozzie is the only manager who shuffles lineups around, just look around. They all do it.


A great example would be the Atlanta Braves. Check out Bobby Cox's lineup shuffle throughout this year and the past 10. I guess that is a bad example, they never really do too great.

SoxRule72
09-01-2005, 04:02 PM
I think most have gotten away from the question of the original post.....I believe the Sox can still win the division, I believe they can hang on to homefield advantage. That doesn't change the fact I would've loved to see an offensive upgrade.

It didn't happen, we can't dwell on it and I'm sure we're all going to root our collective backsides for them... but just 'cuz some express concern about not acquiring a hitter doesn't make us doomsday thinkers.

We would just like the best White Sox team possible in order to give them the best shot at winning it all. Because other teams didn't make moves that makes it ok for the Sox to not make a move that would help them down the stretch and in the playoffs? It doesn't hurt as much, but wouldn't we all want a hitter who scares opposing pitchers/teams???

Ol' No. 2
09-01-2005, 04:05 PM
I think most have gotten away from the question of the original post.....I believe the Sox can still win the division, I believe they can hang on to homefield advantage. That doesn't change the fact I would've loved to see an offensive upgrade.

It didn't happen, we can't dwell on it and I'm sure we're all going to root our collective backsides for them... but just 'cuz some express concern about not acquiring a hitter doesn't make us doomsday thinkers.

We would just like the best White Sox team possible in order to give them the best shot at winning it all. Because other teams didn't make moves that makes it ok for the Sox to not make a move that would help them down the stretch and in the playoffs? It doesn't hurt as much, but wouldn't we all want a hitter who scares opposing pitchers/teams???And I'd like Roger Clemens and Vlad Guerrero, too. They didn't get anybody. Isn't it time to get over it already?

SoxRule72
09-01-2005, 04:07 PM
Get over it already? Who isn't over it? The deadline was just last night, u make it seem like it was 3 weeks ago or something and people are still harping about it.

How 'bout this thread just get deleted so people don't respond to the question...would that satisfy you?

SoxSpeed22
09-01-2005, 04:30 PM
The important part is that no one else helped themselves during this time, except the Braves with Hollandsworth and possibly the Yankees with Lawton. Every team still has a weakness.
Us- consistent hitters
LA- starting pitching
Oak- consistent scoring
Bos- pitching
NYY- defense and starting pitching
Cle- consistent offense, clutch

Flight #24
09-01-2005, 04:57 PM
No.2:

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and again. I guess I don't understand this constant lineup changing myself. I can see it occasionally based on a particular pitcher but this has been an on-going thing.

Athletes today are better conditioned, stronger, faster, in many cases healthier then thirty or forty years ago. Those guys had no trouble playing 150 games a year, why can't the players today?

Lip

IMO Ozzie's philosophy is focused on keeping guys fresh. That means resting them regularly during the season, something made easier by the fact that the Sox have enjoyed a sizeable lead for most of the year. This is particularly important prior to a stretch & postseason run, which, combined with injuries, is IMO why we saw so much shuffling in August.

We as fans focus a lot on the individual games, weeks, or months. Ozzie focuses on the season. He's not worried that we lost 3 of 4 to Texas, he's worried that in September & October his guys are ready to play. How that philosophy works, we shall see.

Domeshot17
09-01-2005, 05:06 PM
The important part is that no one else helped themselves during this time, except the Braves with Hollandsworth and possibly the Yankees with Lawton. Every team still has a weakness.
Us- consistent hitters
LA- starting pitching
Oak- consistent scoring
Bos- pitching
NYY- defense and starting pitching
Cle- consistent offense, clutch

I agree with most of this. However, Statistically, LAA has the best pitching of all playoff contenders minus Oakland. Colon and Lackey have been on fire since the ASB. It, somehow, is the offense letting them down. Finley Cabrera and CO. have all proven to be not worth the major money they recieved this off season, And Erstad Mcpherson and a few others not named Vlad have not produced to what they have been expected too.

That being said, I also agree there is no clear cut favorite to win the AL. You can look to the NL and say FL and STL are the most complete teams, but in the AL, the experts love Boston because, well, they are Boston. And New York as of late has looked like the most Dangerous, and when it comes to the post season, if you get a good Moose and Unit, and Chacon pitches how he has, they most likely are the most dangerous.

My playoff predicition CWS win the central, Yankees the east as Foulke blows 3 big saves against the Yanks, Cleveland the Wild Card and LAA the West. We end up with the Yanks round one.

IowaSox1971
09-01-2005, 05:09 PM
I'm all for resting guys when they're not playing well. If Dye gets in a 1-for-16 slump and we're facing a tough righty, then I have no problem with Timo playing for him. But I do not understand why we would rest Dye when he is in a roll, especially when we're facing a lefty, as we did Sunday in Seattle.