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Madvora
08-29-2005, 10:57 AM
I wonder if this is an off-season option for the White Sox.

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/MLB_SC-RUMOR
Veteran infielder Bill Mueller has done an outstanding job for the Red Sox and is one of the most popular players among fans and his teammates, but chances are that budgetary issues may prevent him from being back with the team next season, says the Boston Globe.

Crede is in the last year of his contract, right?
Also, Boras is Joe's agent, but I think he might also be Mueller's too. Is that correct?

SoxFan76
08-29-2005, 11:10 AM
I like Crede, but this seems like a no-brainer. At least make an effort to pick him up during the off-season.

TaylorStSox
08-29-2005, 11:15 AM
I wonder if this is an off-season option for the White Sox.

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/MLB_SC-RUMOR


Crede is in the last year of his contract, right?
Also, Boras is Joe's agent, but I think he might also be Mueller's too. Is that correct?


Crede's arbitration eligible.

Jerome
08-29-2005, 02:37 PM
I would love either Mueller or Todd Walker. Maybe put hi OBP Mueller in at 2 and see if Iguchi is capable of some power like he was in Japan in the 5 or 6 spot?

SABRSox
08-29-2005, 03:29 PM
I would love either Mueller or Todd Walker. Maybe put hi OBP Mueller in at 2 and see if Iguchi is capable of some power like he was in Japan in the 5 or 6 spot?

I wouldn't move Iguchi out of the 2 hole. He's proved he's very capable there, and has the speed that slot also requires. Mueller lacks that aspect of his game. He'd be a fantastic 6 or 7 hitter though, as a catalyst for the guys at the bottom of the lineup.

Madvora
08-29-2005, 03:55 PM
I wouldn't move Iguchi out of the 2 hole. He's proved he's very capable there, and has the speed that slot also requires. Mueller lacks that aspect of his game. He'd be a fantastic 6 or 7 hitter though, as a catalyst for the guys at the bottom of the lineup.
Right you are.
I don't know if the Sox would have the money to pick him up though, if the Red Sox already don't think they can afford him. It would probably mean a loss of a guy like Konerko to get Mueller.

GAsoxfan
08-30-2005, 12:56 PM
I think he'd be a great pick-up for the Sox. He'd be a terrific #8 hitter.

Sign him to a 2-3 year deal and let him hold down the spot until Fields is ready (hopefully).

Randar68
08-30-2005, 12:59 PM
Right you are.
I don't know if the Sox would have the money to pick him up though, if the Red Sox already don't think they can afford him. It would probably mean a loss of a guy like Konerko to get Mueller.

Well, he ain't going to make 10 million. We lose Frank, Shingo, Carl and Konerko's contracts.

I will contend that they will have enough money to spend on a Furcal and Mueller upgrade. at those 2 positions if they don't resign Pauly.

Randar68
08-30-2005, 01:00 PM
I wouldn't move Iguchi out of the 2 hole. He's proved he's very capable there, and has the speed that slot also requires. Mueller lacks that aspect of his game. He'd be a fantastic 6 or 7 hitter though, as a catalyst for the guys at the bottom of the lineup.

If Iguchi wasn't asked to do all these little things, he'd be hitting 30-40 points higher, IMO and have ~20 HR's. If we can find someone else to do the dirty-work of the #2 hitter, I am all in favor of it.

GAsoxfan
08-30-2005, 01:02 PM
I don't know if the Sox would have the money to sign Furcal and still be able to fill some other spots (1B, DH, maybe RP)

Randar68
08-30-2005, 01:06 PM
I don't know if the Sox would have the money to sign Furcal and still be able to fill some other spots (1B, DH, maybe RP)

Not sure what Furcal is expecting on the open market, but it ain't gonna be ARod money. 8 million/year? I guess I have no idea.

SoxinAZ
08-30-2005, 01:14 PM
Well, he ain't going to make 10 million. We lose Frank, Shingo, Carl and Konerko's contracts.

I will contend that they will have enough money to spend on a Furcal and Mueller upgrade. at those 2 positions if they don't resign Pauly.

Don't forget about Kevin Walker at $500,000 and Ben davis at $1,000,000

Randar68
08-30-2005, 01:19 PM
Don't forget about Kevin Walker at $500,000 and Ben davis at $1,000,000

I don't have time to do the complete analysis, so I pretty much ignored the small-time guys.

JB98
08-30-2005, 01:27 PM
If Iguchi wasn't asked to do all these little things, he'd be hitting 30-40 points higher, IMO and have ~20 HR's. If we can find someone else to do the dirty-work of the #2 hitter, I am all in favor of it.

Iguchi is a lifetime .270 hitter. Certainly, hitting behind runners has taken a few points off his batting average, but it's hard for me to see him hitting .320 or .330. I agree, though, that he has sacrificed some power for the good of the team.

I'm opposed to Bill Mueller. Too old, too injury-prone. I'd either stick with Crede or find a younger player to fill the spot.

Randar68
08-30-2005, 02:22 PM
I'd either stick with Crede or find a younger player to fill the spot.

U got any ideas other than to shoot it down? Who is available that you want?

GAsoxfan
08-30-2005, 04:13 PM
I'm opposed to Bill Mueller. Too old, too injury-prone. I'd either stick with Crede or find a younger player to fill the spot.

If it's Old and Good vs. Young and Bad I'll take Old and Good everytime.

Injury prone? I'm not sure about that one. He has had a couple knee surgeries, but he hasn't missed a lot of time. In 2003 he played 146 games, 110 in 2004 (one of the knee surgeries), and 118 (out of 129) so far in 2005.

Let's say he does miss time b/c of injuries. I'd still rather have a starting 3B who hits .290 for 125 games and then a .240 hitting backup for the other 37 than a starting 3B who will play 160 games but only hit .240.

GAsoxfan
08-30-2005, 04:14 PM
Not sure what Furcal is expecting on the open market, but it ain't gonna be ARod money. 8 million/year? I guess I have no idea.

Yeah, $8-10 million/year is what people are thinking down here. The fact that he's a lead-off hitter adds value. I expect the Cubs to make a hard run at him.

Randar68
08-30-2005, 04:39 PM
Yeah, $8-10 million/year is what people are thinking down here. The fact that he's a lead-off hitter adds value. I expect the Cubs to make a hard run at him.

Well, a 1-2 punch of Pods/Furcal is one scary-ass top of the order for the opposition. Somewhat like Pierre/Castillo used to be. They could potentiall combine for 120-140 SB's if both were healthy for a whole year...

Sure makes moving Iguchi down (heck, do you then put Gooch in the 3-hole?) a nice option...

Would like to see them make a run at him and dump Uribe.

How much would a Mueller/Furcal combo cost to sign? 15 million total per year?

TheOldRoman
08-30-2005, 04:40 PM
Not sure what Furcal is expecting on the open market, but it ain't gonna be ARod money. 8 million/year? I guess I have no idea.
Well, rumor has it that Furcal will be looking for 4 yr/$40 mil. I dont think he will get that much, though.
I am, however, a little cautious about putting him in the 2 spot. He has been a lead off hitter his entire career. He only has 16 career ABs outside of the 1 spot. 1 and 2 hitters have completely different roles, and Im not sure Furcal could do as good as Iguchi does in the 2 whole. Im sure he could adjust, but it isnt a sure thing.

Randar68
08-30-2005, 04:44 PM
Well, rumor has it that Furcal will be looking for 4 yr/$40 mil. I dont think he will get that much, though.
I am, however, a little cautious about putting him in the 2 spot. He has been a lead off hitter his entire career. He only has 16 career ABs outside of the 1 spot. 1 and 2 hitters have completely different roles, and Im not sure Furcal could do as good as Iguchi does in the 2 whole. Im sure he could adjust, but it isnt a sure thing.

Fine, then put him in the #9 hole to turn the order over!

These are the problems we wish we had...

Randar68
08-30-2005, 04:47 PM
Here are Mueller's stats for the record. Those #'s the last 3 years sure are enticing...

TheOldRoman
08-30-2005, 05:03 PM
Here are Mueller's stats for the record. Those #'s the last 3 years sure are enticing...
Ok, I'll take Mueller, but how is his defense? I havent seen him enough to know.

Randar68
08-30-2005, 05:12 PM
Ok, I'll take Mueller, but how is his defense? I havent seen him enough to know.

Not Crede, but he's a lot closer to Crede than Valentin...

Not a terrible downgrade defensively.

GAsoxfan
08-30-2005, 05:13 PM
How much would a Mueller/Furcal combo cost to sign? 15 million total per year?

Probably not that much. Maybe $11-13M/year.

GAsoxfan
08-30-2005, 05:14 PM
Not Crede, but he's a lot closer to Crede than Valentin...

Not a terrible downgrade defensively.

I think the offensive upgrade outweighs the defensive downgrade.

Randar68
08-30-2005, 05:34 PM
I think the offensive upgrade outweighs the defensive downgrade.

Ditto. Especially if you put Furcal next to him. Furcal has better range than Uribe IMO.

I dunno, if you're going to improve the offense, you have to either acquire a legit STUD bat in the 3 and/or 4 hole or you have to address the weaknesses of the order, which are pretty glaringly the left side of the infield.

Career comparisons:

Crede: .251 avg, .728 OPS (some power but weak OBP)
Uribe: .261 avg, .727 OPS (some power but no OBP)

Furcal: .282 avg, .754 OPS (with 181 SB's in 789 games (37 steals /162 games)
Mueller: .293 avg, .801 OPS (tons of OBP, not much power)

Making this swap does cost the overall team a bit of power. And if you are also losing Konerko by doing this, you're starting to handicap the team in the power department. However, it is important to note that they are both switch hitters as well.

Again, maybe you can address this via trade. Maybe not. Don't know.

Randar68
08-30-2005, 11:44 PM
I agree, Iguchi is doing fine. Maybe for next year.

That's pretty much all anyone is talking about here...

Optipessimism
08-31-2005, 02:18 AM
Iguchi is a lifetime .270 hitter. Certainly, hitting behind runners has taken a few points off his batting average, but it's hard for me to see him hitting .320 or .330. I agree, though, that he has sacrificed some power for the good of the team.

I'm opposed to Bill Mueller. Too old, too injury-prone. I'd either stick with Crede or find a younger player to fill the spot.

I agree with Randar. In fact, I'd say Iguchi, Dye, and PK are the best hitters on this team. Iguchi though has been consistent pretty much all year, unlike PK and Dye who go hot and cold quickly.

I doubt Tadahito's spot in the order takes just a few points of his BA. He doesn't try to go opposite field every once in a while, it's EVERY at bat that he tries to do this. The last homerun he hit, the one that won us the 'Brian Anderson is here' game, was out to left. He pulled on the ball and absolutely killed it. IMO, if he drops down in the order even one spot he will be able to pull on the ball more and drive in runs. I don't think he's too small to hit 20-25 HR's and I can see him hitting above .300.

I think the best scenario for this next offseason would be to do our best to not screw up the direction that this team is going and try to land a couple guys that would compliment this offense, and I think Mueller would do that very well. That said, I'd like to see Furcal come here as a No. 2 hitter and pick up Mueller to hit lower in the order. A top 3 of Pods-Furcal-Iguchi IMO scores a heck of a lot of runs, especially if KW can figure out a way to pick up a legitimate cleanup hitter to move Paulie down to the fifth spot in the order.

Frater Perdurabo
08-31-2005, 09:17 AM
A top 3 of Pods-Furcal-Iguchi IMO scores a heck of a lot of runs, especially if KW can figure out a way to pick up a legitimate cleanup hitter to move Paulie down to the fifth spot in the order.

Frank shall return healthy in 2006. He's the cleanup hitter. Everett's the backup DH and OF. (Konerko, who will earn a fat contract from the Yankees or Mets, would be expendable.) Mueller could bat fifth and get a ton of RBI. Dye could move to first base and bat sixth. He too would knock in many runs. AJ, Rowand and Anderson complete the lineup. Uribe becomes the utility IF and Crede is trade bait.

Randar68
08-31-2005, 12:26 PM
Frank shall return healthy in 2006. He's the cleanup hitter. Everett's the backup DH and OF. (Konerko, who will earn a fat contract from the Yankees or Mets, would be expendable.) Mueller could bat fifth and get a ton of RBI. Dye could move to first base and bat sixth. He too would knock in many runs. AJ, Rowand and Anderson complete the lineup. Uribe becomes the utility IF and Crede is trade bait.

I think that should all be in deeppink. I guess this is about the best we could expect. The bottom 3 of AJ-Rowand-Anderson could combine for 200 RBI and 40 HR's... that's a hell of a bottom of the order... especially when you start looking at all the speed and OBP at the top...

I'm not convinced Frank will ever play baseball again, and if he does, how much we can trust that he'll hold up for even half a season...