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TornLabrum
08-28-2005, 01:40 PM
Today I was in the car flipping back and forth between "Hit and Run" and "Talking Baseball."

I happened to flip to "Hit and Run" while George Ofman and Jesse Rogers were interviewing Andy MacPhail of the Cubs when I heard him make the following statement:

“Last year three pieces of concrete fell from Wrigley Field, and it became a big story. What people don’t know is that eighteen pieces of concrete fell at U.S. Cellular Field. It was reported, but nobody ever followed up on it, and it just disappeared. That’s the thing about working at Wrigley Field. Everything that happens here gets blown up.”

I've already emailed Scott Reifert in hopes of getting the actual facts about this for a column next week. As I recall that entire story was a bunch of BS. The hilarious part was about how stories get buried about The Cell and get all kinds of publicity when they are about The Shrine.

If the statement about the 18 chunks of concrete is as false as I remember it being, the Tribune Co. has found another way to slander the "enemy." It's called The Big Lie and is used by dictatorships. The theory is that if you tell a lie often enough, people start to believe it.

MacPhail's statement belongs on Who You Crappin'.

Clembasbal
08-28-2005, 01:44 PM
Today I was in the car flipping back and forth between "Hit and Run" and "Talking Baseball."

I happened to flip to "Hit and Run" while George Ofman and Jesse Rogers were interviewing Andy MacPhail of the Cubs when I heard him make the following statement:

“Last year three pieces of concrete fell from Wrigley Field, and it became a big story. What people don’t know is that eighteen pieces of concrete fell at U.S. Cellular Field. It was reported, but nobody ever followed up on it, and it just disappeared. That’s the thing about working at Wrigley Field. Everything that happens here gets blown up.”

I've already emailed Scott Reifert in hopes of getting the actual facts about this for a column next week. As I recall that entire story was a bunch of BS. The hilarious part was about how stories get buried about The Cell and get all kinds of publicity when they are about The Shrine.

If the statement about the 18 chunks of concrete is as false as I remember it being, the Tribune Co. has found another way to slander the "enemy." It's called The Big Lie and is used by dictatorships. The theory is that if you tell a lie often enough, people start to believe it.

MacPhail's statement belongs on Who You Crappin'.

Not that I know much about the legal system, but if this has been recorded and it is found out that it is false by all means. Can somebody sue him for slander?

cheeses_h_rice
08-28-2005, 01:50 PM
I thought I read or heard somewhere that the Sox did have some concrete problems, but those were isolated to some of the exterior ramps. My recollection is that it had something to do with the concrete on the ramps starting to crack due to the elements. Nowhere did those reports say anything about concrete in the seating area of the park crumbling and falling.

Sounds like b.s. to me.

voodoochile
08-28-2005, 01:53 PM
I thought I read or heard somewhere that the Sox did have some concrete problems, but those were isolated to some of the exterior ramps. My recollection is that it had something to do with the concrete on the ramps starting to crack due to the elements. Nowhere did those reports say anything about concrete in the seating area of the park crumbling and falling.

Sounds like b.s. to me.

That's the way I remember it too. The concrete that fell was external to the ball park - it's not like baseball sized chunks were falling in the seating area during games.

Also, the Sox had the problem repaired - they didn't just wrap it in nets and start spinning the truth...

NSSoxFan
08-28-2005, 01:54 PM
:lynch&mcfail
"18 pieces right? Man, that Brooks Boyer really has an easy job over on the South side of town. Meanwhile, 3 measley pieces fall from our sacred ground and George Knue can't keep us out of the spotlight! Geez! No wonder why Santo isn't in the Hall of Fame."

TheOldRoman
08-28-2005, 02:04 PM
That's the way I remember it too. The concrete that fell was external to the ball park - it's not like baseball sized chunks were falling in the seating area during games.

Also, the Sox had the problem repaired - they didn't just wrap it in nets and start spinning the truth...
As I remember, there were exterior panels of the prefab concrete that were removed from the Cell during the offseason because they either were cracked or needed to be replaced for some reason. While strolling by, the Tribune realized that panels were missing, so they thought up a story that the concrete fell and it was this big disaster. The Sox said that the removal and replacement of the exterior concrete was routine maintainence, and nothing was crumbling.

The ISFA examined the structure again, as they do every year, and ruled that everything was 100% safe, but they said that the ramps would need to be replaced within 10 because they would fold eventually.

DumpJerry
08-28-2005, 02:17 PM
OldRoman is right. Some of the concrete slabs on the exterior were removed by workers for inspection last Spring. A Fox (I think) reporter drove by, saw missing cement, and ran with a story that the cement had fallen off without getting any information beside what she saw.

Putting on my lawyer hat, I don't believe the Sox can sue over the current incident reported in this thread. The reasons why are more involved than I want to go into right here. Let's just enjoy our World Series run and stop worrying about The Freaks.

Letmehearya
08-28-2005, 02:20 PM
Not that I know much about the legal system, but if this has been recorded and it is found out that it is false by all means. Can somebody sue him for slander?

If the Sox want to make hay about it, I wouldn't recommend the lawsuit route. I'd recommend a Press Release at a minimum or even a Press Conference and take the opportunity to: 1) rip the cubs for lying about the Sox and the Cell; and 2) put the issue of the urinal falling apart [concrete falling on people] back into the media spotlight. That way it comes off more as "why are they lying about our stadium when there's is falling apart?" It makes for a good opportunity to kick 'em in the teeth.

santo=dorf
08-28-2005, 02:26 PM
As I remember, there were exterior panels of the prefab concrete that were removed from the Cell during the offseason because they either were cracked or needed to be replaced for some reason.

That's what I remember too. The Sox pried the concrete loose to examine the structure, whereas spectators/tourists nearly got hit from falling concrete during the game.

Sheesh, what a tool.

PaleHoseGeorge
08-28-2005, 02:29 PM
If the Sox want to make hay about it, I wouldn't recommend the lawsuit route. I'd recommend a Press Release at a minimum or even a Press Conference and take the opportunity to: 1) rip the cubs for lying about the Sox and the Cell; and 2) put the issue of the urinal falling apart [concrete falling on people] back into the media spotlight. That way it comes off more as "why are they lying about our stadium when there's is falling apart?" It makes for a good opportunity to kick 'em in the teeth.

A press release debunking the story is the proper manner to handle this. Furthermore it gives the Sox complete control over the "spin" of the story, forcing the media to report EXACTLY what the Sox write in their press release. That's how you play the game.

The Sox can get their free shot at the Cubs with a clever quote from Brooks or some other front office shill, "confused but thankful" the Cubs have made the Sox -- yet again -- part of their public relations strategy. Of course in reality this would just be payback for the Flubs whining when the Sox ran the "us vs. them" TV commercials.
:thumbsup:

It's these sorts of P.R. opportunities that that dope Scott Reifert ALWAYS misses. 10 to 1 odds says the Sox miss this one, too. Idiot...
:mad:

DumpJerry
08-28-2005, 02:30 PM
If the Sox want to make hay about it, I wouldn't recommend the lawsuit route. I'd recommend a Press Release at a minimum or even a Press Conference and take the opportunity to: 1) rip the cubs for lying about the Sox and the Cell; and 2) put the issue of the urinal falling apart [concrete falling on people] back into the media spotlight. That way it comes off more as "why are they lying about our stadium when there's is falling apart?" It makes for a good opportunity to kick 'em in the teeth.
I agree. Also, I read somewhere that the pigeons have cut holes in the netting that catches the falling chunks........

NSSoxFan
08-28-2005, 02:33 PM
It's these sorts of P.R. opportunities that that dope Scott Reifert ALWAYS misses. 10 to 1 odds says the Sox miss this one, too. Idiot...
:mad:

Isn't it sad/infuriating?

BRDSR
08-28-2005, 02:43 PM
Not that I know much about the legal system, but if this has been recorded and it is found out that it is false by all means. Can somebody sue him for slander?

Slander is generally a lawsuit brought by an individual on another individual or in rare cases, an organization. Rarely if ever does an organization sue another organization for slander. Even if this were a legitimate lawsuit, which I believe it is not, I sincerely hope that the White Sox would have enough class to just be a better baseball team than the Cubs without resorting to cluttering an already overworked legal system to prove it.

PaleHoseGeorge
08-28-2005, 02:51 PM
Isn't it sad/infuriating?

It's sad and infuriating because it is so utterly predictable. The Sox don't have any legal recourse in this matter, so they should make P.R. hay out of it instead. Hell, anything that turns up the noise level about the decrepit condition of the Urinal -- and the Flubs' misinformation about the Cell -- is worthy of the attention of a COMPETENT media relations director.

Of course the Sox don't have one.
:mad:

iamkoza
08-28-2005, 03:16 PM
As I remember, there were exterior panels of the prefab concrete that were removed from the Cell during the offseason because they either were cracked or needed to be replaced for some reason. While strolling by, the Tribune realized that panels were missing, so they thought up a story that the concrete fell and it was this big disaster. The Sox said that the removal and replacement of the exterior concrete was routine maintainence, and nothing was crumbling.

The ISFA examined the structure again, as they do every year, and ruled that everything was 100% safe, but they said that the ramps would need to be replaced within 10 because they would fold eventually.

Who designed those things? 25 year life for the ramps? Pretty bad lifetime for a concrete structure

TheOldRoman
08-28-2005, 03:17 PM
Who designed those things? 25 year life for the ramps? Pretty bad lifetime for a concrete structure
I agree. I hope the new ramp structures they build are nicer looking than those ones. Mercy!

skobabe8
08-28-2005, 03:45 PM
As I remember, there were exterior panels of the prefab concrete that were removed from the Cell during the offseason because they either were cracked or needed to be replaced for some reason. While strolling by, the Tribune realized that panels were missing, so they thought up a story that the concrete fell and it was this big disaster. The Sox said that the removal and replacement of the exterior concrete was routine maintainence, and nothing was crumbling.

The ISFA examined the structure again, as they do every year, and ruled that everything was 100% safe, but they said that the ramps would need to be replaced within 10 because they would fold eventually.

I had never heard that about the ramps, but its pretty interesting. 25 years is not a long time for the lifespan of a concrete structure. I wonder what they plan to do...

Brian26
08-28-2005, 04:05 PM
“Last year three pieces of concrete fell from Wrigley Field, and it became a big story. What people don’t know is that eighteen pieces of concrete fell at U.S. Cellular Field. It was reported, but nobody ever followed up on it, and it just disappeared. That’s the thing about working at Wrigley Field. Everything that happens here gets blown up.”



Does MacPahil himself believe that the structural integrity of The Cell is as suspect or more suspect than the Shrine? If so, he's the biggest idiot walking this planet. New Comiskey was constructed 15 years ago, while the Shrine is 90 years old. Is there any doubt that the engineering design, building materials, and construction standards used in building New Comiskey were LIGHT YEARS ahead of what was used back when Wrigley was built (you know- during the same time period the Model T was being used on dirt roads and televisions were still 30 years away? Give me a ****ing break. Yeah, The Cell might fall down any day now. Any day!

Brian26
08-28-2005, 04:12 PM
Hell, anything that turns up the noise level about the decrepit condition of the Urinal -- and the Flubs' misinformation about the Cell -- is worthy of the attention of a COMPETENT media relations director.

Of course the Sox don't have one.
:mad:

He's too busy updating his blog (the concept, of course, that HE invented).

NSSoxFan
08-28-2005, 04:18 PM
He's too bust updating his blog (the concept, of course, that HE invented).

Anyone who is going to 'Core of the Core', do me a favor. Whoever the White Sox 'officials' are that will be around that night, be sure to ask them one question. Why is WSI good enough to come to and ask for groups of their patrons to come to a game and buy tickets plus patio passes BUT we're not good enough to be given media credentials.

Tell me, Mr. Reifert.

SouthSide_HitMen
08-28-2005, 04:23 PM
Yeah, The Cell might fall down any day now. Any day!

Don't give JR any ideas.

C-Dawg
08-28-2005, 05:22 PM
Who designed those things? 25 year life for the ramps? Pretty bad lifetime for a concrete structure

Its probably not the concrete which may fail in 25 years, its the welds where the imbedded metal plates in the precast sections are welded to the concrete columns that will eventually rust and need to be replaced. Although it may not be as bad as it COULD be - since the park is closed in the winter they probably aren't salting the ramps which adds to the corrosion.

Anyway, we do know the ramps are strong - the ironworkers who were working on the fundamentals deck were driving their big trucks up the ramps at that corner of the park everyday (with their welding generators and stuff). Kind of made me wish I could drive up there!

Oh, and the reason I posted - at my firm we have a way of evaluating cured concrete that involves shooting probes into the surface of the concrete and measuring the penetration. Trouble is, it often causes chipping or "spalling" of the surface and can be unsightly if done in a conspicuous place. When I read the report of the chunks removed at the Cell during inspection, this procedure was the first thing that popped into my head. Its completely harmless.

BTW we were the engineering firm who did the testing and inspection of the soils, foundations, concrete, welds, etc, when the park was built. We had a couple guys there pretty much full time until the park was done (sadly not me, although I did get to go twice when they built the ramps across 35th street, which had to wait until the old park was demolished - those were my only "on the job" visits to the New Comiskey LOL).

RedHeadPaleHoser
08-28-2005, 05:30 PM
Anyone who is going to 'Core of the Core', do me a favor. Whoever the White Sox 'officials' are that will be around that night, be sure to ask them one question. Why is WSI good enough to come to and ask for groups of their patrons to come to a game and buy tickets plus patio passes BUT we're not good enough to be given media credentials.

Tell me, Mr. Reifert.

Should we not refer that to Hal/Torn Labrum for discussion?

TornLabrum
08-28-2005, 07:51 PM
Should we not refer that to Hal/Torn Labrum for discussion?

The only person I know who writes for WSI with journalism credentials is Mark Liptak, and he isn't going to be visiting the press box from his home in Idaho very often.

I took English 104A, "Composition and Literature," at NIU in the spring semester of 1969. That is the limit of my formal training as a writer. I certainly have no legitimate reason to request a press pass. I'll leave that argument to PHG and others here.

In other words, I'm not getting into that discussion. I'm too busy being happy that Scott Reifert thought of WSI when coming up with the "Core of the Core" party.

PaleHoseGeorge
08-28-2005, 08:34 PM
In other words, I'm not getting into that discussion. I'm too busy being happy that Scott Reifert thought of WSI when coming up with the "Core of the Core" party.

Obtaining press credentials per se is not the issue. The White Sox have STONEWALLED this website for over six years on any and all requests for assistance, including the simplest courtesies such as providing contact information for ex-Sox ballplayers we wish to interview.

The person at the front line of the stonewalling: Scott Reifert.

He'll bend over backwards to let the mediots marginalize and otherwise tear away the last bit of historical significance from the Chicago White Sox franchise and ANYBODY who was on the internet back in 1998-99 knows what I'm talking about. This website was the ONLY positive voice for Sox Fandom available ANYWHERE and Scott Reifert treated us like lepers. Not just me, but other people too, including those who have given their time and talent to WRITING BOOKS about the Chicago White Sox. To hear Reifert tell it, we weren't legitimate!
:o:

The actions of Scott Reifert are waaaaaaay beyond defending and his stupid blog serves as the perfect testament to how assinine and backwards his thinking about the internet and WSI has always been.

If WSI can take any credit for the ouster of the incompetent Rob Gallas and schooling his successor Brook Boyer on the proper approach to dealing with Sox Fans, then I'll take even more satisfaction if this website serves the same purpose for ousting Scott Reifert because he deserves it every bit as much as Gallas ever did.

At least Gallas never stood in our way, Torn. That's more than I can say for Reifert.

skobabe8
08-28-2005, 08:41 PM
Obtaining press credentials per se is not the issue. The White Sox have STONEWALLED this website for over six years on any and all requests for assistance, including the simplest courtesies such as providing contact information for ex-Sox ballplayers we wish to interview.

The person at the front line of the stonewalling: Scott Reifert.

He'll bend over backwards to let the mediots marginalize and otherwise tear away the last bit of historical significance from the Chicago White Sox franchise and ANYBODY who was on the internet back in 1998-99 knows what I'm talking about. This website was the ONLY positive voice for Sox Fandom available ANYWHERE and Scott Reifert treated us like lepers. Not just me, but other people too, including those who have given their time and talent to WRITING BOOKS about the Chicago White Sox. To hear Reifert tell it, we weren't legitimate!
:o:

The actions of Scott Reifert are waaaaaaay beyond defending and his stupid blog serves as the perfect testament to how assinine and backwards his thinking about the internet and WSI has always been.

If WSI can take any credit for the ouster of the incompetent Rob Gallas and schooling his successor Brook Boyer on the proper approach to dealing with Sox Fans, then I'll take even more satisfaction if this website serves the same purpose for ousting Scott Reifert because he deserves it every bit as much as Gallas ever did.

At least Gallas never stood in our way, Torn. That's more than I can say for Reifert.

For those of us who arent sure what hapened in 1998-1999, can you sum it up? How can we find out?

mr_genius
08-28-2005, 08:44 PM
The only person I know who writes for WSI with journalism credentials is Mark Liptak, and he isn't going to be visiting the press box from his home in Idaho very often.

I took English 104A, "Composition and Literature," at NIU in the spring semester of 1969. That is the limit of my formal training as a writer. I certainly have no legitimate reason to request a press pass.
.

Peter Jennings was a high school dropout and someone gave him not only a press pass put an anchor position at a major network.

go figure

PaleHoseGeorge
08-28-2005, 08:50 PM
For those of us who arent sure what hapened in 1998-1999, can you sum it up? How can we find out?

There were exactly ZERO websites devoted to Sox Fans. Not one. I would never have started this place if I hadn't been embarrassed about the situation. And no, I don't count official websites as devoted to the fans. By definition, official sites are devoted to the team, not the fans, and anyone who surfs the official sites can tell the difference.

The success of this website was accomplished with ZERO help from the Chicago White Sox. I dare say the internet is the only place this franchise has anything remotely approaching "popular" status comparing favorably to the biggest franchises in sports and Scott Reifert did his level best to do NOTHING to make it possible.

And after calling the internet "illegitimate" he starts his own blog? Oh, the brass balls...

You know why the White Sox have been a joke for most of their 100+ existence? Assinine thinking just like Scott Reifert's. Gallas was more competent at his job than this guy.

Lip Man 1
08-28-2005, 08:54 PM
The only comment that I can add to PHG's is that it would be very helpful to get some contact information from the Sox regarding former players. It would make things a lot easier from the interview sense.

On the flip side I think all will agree that despite the difficulties WSI has been able to get many players who are still fondly remembered by Sox fans. maybe that makes getting them sweeter since we are doing it without help, having to search the internet, track down leads and follow sometimes some dead ends.

After PHG gets through with adding pictures, baseball cards and audio the interviews look tremendous and are a feather in the cap of the web site. I always look forward to doing them and seeing them up on the site. I think WSI patrons enjoy this as well.

Lip

TornLabrum
08-28-2005, 09:16 PM
There were exactly ZERO websites devoted to Sox Fans. Not one. I would never have started this place if I hadn't been embarrassed about the situation. And no, I don't count official websites as devoted to the fans. By definition, official sites are devoted to the team, not the fans, and anyone who surfs the official sites can tell the difference.

The success of this website was accomplished with ZERO help from the Chicago White Sox. I dare say the internet is the only place this franchise has anything remotely approaching "popular" status comparing favorably to the biggest franchises in sports and Scott Reifert did his level best to do NOTHING to make it possible.

And after calling the internet "illegitimate" he starts his own blog? Oh, the brass balls...

You know why the White Sox have been a joke for most of their 100+ existence? Assinine thinking just like Scott Reifert's. Gallas was more competent at his job than this guy.

One thing that really does need to be added on the credit side of the ledger for the White Sox is that unlike the Astros, Mets, and maybe some other franchises, the Sox at least did not go out of their way to put WSI out of business--unless there is something you haven't told us about--whereas at least a few fan sites were put out of business.

I give Reifert credit for seeing that this web site is highly successful and thinking that we have enough of a base to put some butts in the seats for a weeknight September game against the Royals. We didn't do as well at selling tickets as I would have hoped, but from the looks of things WSI and Sox Talk did manage to sell around 150 tickets for that game. That's a pretty decent sized group for a game on a school/work night.

Granted, a patio party does put butts in the seats, so the Sox do benefit financially from it, but still I do sense a decrease in the hostility towards WSI and other sites of its ilk.

PaleHoseGeorge
08-28-2005, 10:23 PM
....

I give Reifert credit for seeing that this web site is highly successful and thinking that we have enough of a base to put some butts in the seats for a weeknight September game against the Royals.

How did you draw this conclusion?
:?:

Reifert did NOTHING to see this website was successful. And since when does the Sox director of public relations get involved in renting out the Patio Area, least of all to a group that Reifert has flatly stated is illegitimate? Stadium operations isn't his area, nor is community relations or marketing. His job is to deal with the "legitimate" MEDIA and we aren't part of it. Just ask him.
:o:

Maybe Reifert can take credit for figuring out a way to rake money off the Sox Fans assembled at WSI and other websites his own department did absolutely NOTHING to help cultivate. Is this what you're talking about?

TornLabrum
08-28-2005, 10:28 PM
How did you draw this conclusion?
:?:

Reifert did NOTHING to see this website was successful. And since when does the Sox director of public relations get involved in renting out the Patio Area, least of all to a group that Reifert has flatly stated is illegitimate? Stadium operations isn't his area, nor is community relations or marketing. His job is to deal with the "legitimate" MEDIA and we aren't part of it. Just ask him.
:o:

Maybe Reifert can take credit for figuring out a way to rake money off the Sox Fans assembled at WSI and other websites his own department did absolutely NOTHING to help cultivate. Is this what you're talking about?

Seeing = observing. Plus, I'm trying to get the Sox side of the concrete story from him, so I'm reserving any judgment until I hear from him, or not. Christ, Bova, let's not alienate a possible source of fodder against the Cubbies for next week's column, huh?

I'm a teacher. I'm used to giving second (and third and fourth...and fiftieth) chances to people.

Vernam
08-28-2005, 10:29 PM
This is easy for me to say, as someone without nearly so much invested in WSI as you all do, but I think you should be flattered that the unsupportive ones who work(ed) for the Sox recognized early how a very well-done fan site posed a threat to their official site. Now, that was a foolish and self-defeating approach, but most companies would do the same. I can think of a prime example several miles to the north. :wink: Which doesn't excuse it, obviously; for the Sox to behave like Them probably makes it doubly disappointing.

The running gag about people emailing Boyer is a reflection of how times have changed since Gallas left. Boyer seems young and smart enough to have learned a few lessons from WSI, though I'd be surprised if he'll acknowledge it explicitly. It's seldom in the big guys' interest to praise the little guys' tenacity (see above re: north vs. south side). But on the positive side, their whole ad campaign indicates they have a better grasp of what makes Sox fans unique, and there should be no mystery about where they went to figure that out. Think of the money you've saved them from spending on focus groups. Heck, in some years, the sheer existence of WSI has been the best evidence that Sox fans even exist. I'm talking in terms of media coverage, not the A word.

No company will trust any medium it can't flat-out control. I'm sure you'd rather have some recognition from the team, but you'll have to settle for how proud the die-hard fans are to have such a literate forum. For the people intent on claiming Sox fans are slack-jawed cretins, there's not much better proof to the contrary than WSI. :gulp:

VC

PaleHoseGeorge
08-28-2005, 10:31 PM
Seeing = observing. Plus, I'm trying to get the Sox side of the concrete story from him, so I'm reserving any judgment until I hear from him, or not. Christ, Bova, let's not alienate a possible source of fodder against the Cubbies for next week's column, huh?

I'm a teacher. I'm used to giving second (and third and fourth...and fiftieth) chances to people.

Keep me up to date on what response you get. This ought to be interesting... he generally has no reply at all, except to dismiss the request for help out of hand.

If Scott does otherwise it will be a first.

mr_genius
08-28-2005, 10:35 PM
His job is to deal with the "legitimate" MEDIA



:moron

"like me"

TornLabrum
08-28-2005, 10:39 PM
Keep me up to date on what response you get. This ought to be interesting... he generally has no reply at all, except to dismiss the request for help out of hand.

If Scott does otherwise it will be a first.

I'll definitely keep you posted. I see the possibility for a little non-corporate synergy here. I suggest to Scott Reifert that he should check it out and perhaps respond in his blog. It he does acknowledge MacPhails gaffe about the concrete, I can plug the blog.

Hell, even the Soviets figured out that d'etante was more in their interest than continued hostility. I considered Core of the Core to be a kind of olive branch on the part of the Sox. I'm extending one of my own for something that might be mutually beneficial, i.e. ripping the Cubs and MacPhail a new one.

mr_genius
08-28-2005, 10:46 PM
I considered Core of the Core to be a kind of olive branch on the part of the Sox

:?:

aren't they charging "the core of the core" the same they charge any other group?

voodoochile
08-28-2005, 10:51 PM
:?:

aren't they charging "the core of the core" the same they charge any other group?

Yes, but why wouldn't they?

I think Hal's point is that the Sox are finally acknowledging we exist and are actually a good thing to have around even if they have no control and aren't seeing dime one from the site itself.

Where it leads only time will tell and history suggests it's an abberation and won't see much follow through from Reifert, but if it turns into something more down the road, this is the first step toward better relations...

TommyJohn
08-28-2005, 11:04 PM
Today I was in the car flipping back and forth between "Hit and Run" and "Talking Baseball."

I happened to flip to "Hit and Run" while George Ofman and Jesse Rogers were interviewing Andy MacPhail of the Cubs when I heard him make the following statement:

“Last year three pieces of concrete fell from Wrigley Field, and it became a big story. What people don’t know is that eighteen pieces of concrete fell at U.S. Cellular Field. It was reported, but nobody ever followed up on it, and it just disappeared. That’s the thing about working at Wrigley Field. Everything that happens here gets blown up.”

I've already emailed Scott Reifert in hopes of getting the actual facts about this for a column next week. As I recall that entire story was a bunch of BS. The hilarious part was about how stories get buried about The Cell and get all kinds of publicity when they are about The Shrine.

If the statement about the 18 chunks of concrete is as false as I remember it being, the Tribune Co. has found another way to slander the "enemy." It's called The Big Lie and is used by dictatorships. The theory is that if you tell a lie often enough, people start to believe it.

MacPhail's statement belongs on Who You Crappin'.

And this statement comes at a time when the White Sox are jamming the park
with people, are in first place and appear headed to the postseason and are
getting grudging acknowledgement that they have done well renovating the
park. Talk about timing. Of course, McFail knows that some members of the
media will jump all over it and report his version in bold, loud stories while the
Sox scramble to correct the story. "A lie can travel halfway around the world
while the truth is still putting on its shoes."

It must be pointed out that the Cubs thrive on myths. Look at the "Curse"
nonsense. Does anyone recall ever hearing of that crap before 1984? And
there is the 1984 NLCS myth. That one has gotten so out of hand that
members of that Cub team now believe it themselves, proving once and
for all that there is a such thing as "false memory." Brings to mind the
movie "Blade Runner" where a corporation builds artificial humans and
implants them with false memories, for their own purposes, of course.

Stroker Ace
08-28-2005, 11:29 PM
Maybe McFail had the time to count particles of concrete dust.

ewokpelts
08-29-2005, 12:25 AM
PHG,
If I were you, I'd let the reifert grudge go. At the end of the day, Reifert works for Uncle Jerry. Did you honestly expect anything different. I'd take solace in that Boyer has openly used this site/boards as market research, and ACTUALLY given credit to WSI for inspiration. They read these boards. Do you honestly think I ran out of teacher's night vouchers? I was getting 4000 at a time before "the guy that everyone emails with ideas" read my post about the teachers night vouchers. Apparently, he was PISSED. I lost all voucher privileges for 2005( i was working towards red cross night vouchers), and maybe beyond. point is......boyer and reifert are all vassels of reinsdorf, and they'll follow his wishes, even if it hurts the team.
Gene

skobabe8
08-29-2005, 12:28 AM
PHG,
I suggest you get over it. Reifert works for Uncle Jerry. Did you honestly expect anything different. I'd take solace in that Boyer has openly used this site/boards as market research, and ACTUALLY given credit to WSI for inspiration. They read these boards. Do you honestly think I ran out of teacher's night vouchers? I was getting 4000 at a time before "the guy that everyone emails with ideas" read my post about the teachers night vouchers. Apparently, he was PISSED. I lost all voucher privileges for 2005( i was working towards red cross night vouchers), and maybe beyond. point is......boyer and reifert are all vassels of reinsdorf, and they'll follow his wishes, even if it hurts the team.
Gene

WOW :o:

SouthSide_HitMen
08-29-2005, 12:28 AM
We didn't do as well at selling tickets as I would have hoped, but from the looks of things WSI and Sox Talk did manage to sell around 150 tickets for that game. That's a pretty decent sized group for a game on a school/work night.

A couple thoughs - from the perspective of being on the board for only 1 year.

1. I think many on this board are season ticket holders so I think the tickets sold were a pretty good total considering.

2. Large corporations are averse to anything new / changes they cannot control. From Hollywood fighting Beta / VHS from inception to music companies fighting internet downloads (both of which they could profit immensely from but they don't realize it for several years down the road) they cannot handle change - especially when they can't control it. I was unaware of the problems this site has had with access and other issues from the organization but it is par for the course when it comes to large organizations. I hope that the access does improve - it appears from the posts Boyer is better (which I agree with) and hopefully positive changes will continue.

3. I went to Reifert's blog - it is a joke.

4. I just wanted to thank those responsible for this site as it is an excellent site - from the boards to the articles and other features. Thanks for all that you do.

DrCrawdad
08-29-2005, 12:45 AM
:lynch&mcfail
"...It's not just the boulders falling on fans over at their park. Did you know that their park is in the middle of a dangerous negro-ghetto? Yeah, and quite a few people have been shot in their upper deck from the high-rise projects that surround their park. Oh, and no one ever goes to their games anyhow, except for the three times we play there each year."

mr_genius
08-29-2005, 12:50 AM
:lynch&mcfail
"...It's not just the boulders falling on fans over at their park. Did you know that their park is in the middle of a dangerous negro-ghetto? Yeah, and quite a few people have been shot in their upper deck from the high-rise projects that surround their park. Oh, and no one ever goes to their games anyhow, except for the three times we play there each year."

:rolling:

SouthSide_HitMen
08-29-2005, 01:01 AM
Today I was in the car flipping back and forth between "Hit and Run" and "Talking Baseball."

I happened to flip to "Hit and Run" while George Ofman and Jesse Rogers were interviewing Andy MacPhail of the Cubs when I heard him make the following statement:

“Last year three pieces of concrete fell from Wrigley Field, and it became a big story. What people don’t know is that eighteen pieces of concrete fell at U.S. Cellular Field. It was reported, but nobody ever followed up on it, and it just disappeared. That’s the thing about working at Wrigley Field. Everything that happens here gets blown up.”



I am surprised McFail would make such statements - I though he was being groomed to take over for Bud when his reign comes to an end. I am not surprised, however, that the cubune would make such accusations. Maybe McFail is being passed over for a promotion to Commissioner (following his father who was League President when they had separate offices pre Bud) or possibly Reinsdorf and his faction have the votes and they are not going MacFail's way.

I hope he stays for decades - I love the cubs record since he arrived to "bring a championship to Wrigley".

IowaSox1971
08-29-2005, 04:22 AM
Concrete did fall during the final seasons at old Comiskey Park. I was in the right field lower deck for the 1987 home opener and a large chunk fell one section over from me about 15 minutes before the game started. Amazingly, nobody got hurt. I heard that this also happened on other occasions during the park's final years. I have not heard of this happening at the new Sox park, though.

StockdaleForVeep
08-29-2005, 04:45 AM
Today I was in the car flipping back and forth between "Hit and Run" and "Talking Baseball."

I happened to flip to "Hit and Run" while George Ofman and Jesse Rogers were interviewing Andy MacPhail of the Cubs when I heard him make the following statement:

“Last year three pieces of concrete fell from Wrigley Field, and it became a big story. What people don’t know is that eighteen pieces of concrete fell at U.S. Cellular Field. It was reported, but nobody ever followed up on it, and it just disappeared. That’s the thing about working at Wrigley Field. Everything that happens here gets blown up.”

I've already emailed Scott Reifert in hopes of getting the actual facts about this for a column next week. As I recall that entire story was a bunch of BS. The hilarious part was about how stories get buried about The Cell and get all kinds of publicity when they are about The Shrine.

If the statement about the 18 chunks of concrete is as false as I remember it being, the Tribune Co. has found another way to slander the "enemy." It's called The Big Lie and is used by dictatorships. The theory is that if you tell a lie often enough, people start to believe it.

MacPhail's statement belongs on Who You Crappin'.

Everyone sues, cant reinsy sue tribune co over this?

:reinsy:
"ITS ON!"

PaleHoseGeorge
08-29-2005, 09:04 AM
PHG,
If I were you, I'd let the reifert grudge go....

Right, like I give a moment's thought to Scott Reifert?
:cool:

This website has been here for almost seven years. Everything we've put together -- including 100 percent of the behind the scenes work to line up interviews -- was done WITHOUT Scott Reifert's help. We do just fine without his "help."

I reserve the right to become indignant when it's suggested that the White Sox somehow cultivated the large and impressive community of Sox Fans on the internet because it is pure bull****. They NEVER helped.

MisterB
08-29-2005, 11:03 AM
BTW, here's the thread (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=46950) from the first time this BS was debunked.

To wit:
The ISFA wishes to correct the inaccuracies and mischaracterizations contained in the Daily Southtown article (March 19) regarding U.S. Cellular Field.

Concrete is not falling at U.S. Cellular Field. To imply otherwise is irresponsible and a disservice to the people who visit the ballpark.

Every year, we inspect and maintain the park to make sure it is safe. Any loose concrete is removed to ensure it poses no hazard. Every four years, we perform a critical facade examination of exterior walls for cracks and loose concrete, and a report is submitted to the Chicago Department of Buildings. Skilled tradespeople are trained to identify and report any potential problems before every home game.

The ISFA takes very seriously the issue of public safety. We are pleased that the Department of Buildings responded quickly to the Southtown's inaccurate claims and reconfirmed that THERE ARE NO STRUCTURAL FAILURES, DANGERS OR HAZARDS at U.S. Cellular Field.

Perri L. Irmer
Chief Executive Officer
Illinois Sports Facilities Authority

Editors Note: A headline on Saturday's story incorrectly stated chunks of concrete have "fallen" from the stadium. As the story correctly reported, crumbling pieces of pre-set concrete have been pried away by engineers working for the Sports Facilities Authority.

Flight #24
08-29-2005, 11:15 AM
BTW, here's the thread (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=46950) from the first time this BS was debunked.

To wit:
:lynch&mcfail
Well, there you go....what do you think happened to the concrete when the engineers pried it away? It FELL!!!

itsnotrequired
08-29-2005, 11:27 AM
Nice find, MisterB!

Over By There
08-29-2005, 01:46 PM
That’s the thing about working at Wrigley Field. Everything that happens here gets blown up.

That has to be one of the most ludicrous things I've heard in a long time. And Scrub fans think a "curse" is why they haven't won a World Series in nearly a century. :rolleyes:

BainesHOF
08-29-2005, 03:50 PM
I don't see any reason why a respected writer of this site can't receive a media credential. There's usually lots of empty spaces in the press box.

Norberto7
08-29-2005, 04:46 PM
Does MacPahil himself believe that the structural integrity of The Cell is as suspect or more suspect than the Shrine? If so, he's the biggest idiot walking this planet. New Comiskey was constructed 15 years ago, while the Shrine is 90 years old. Is there any doubt that the engineering design, building materials, and construction standards used in building New Comiskey were LIGHT YEARS ahead of what was used back when Wrigley was built (you know- during the same time period the Model T was being used on dirt roads and televisions were still 30 years away? Give me a ****ing break. Yeah, The Cell might fall down any day now. Any day!

I'm not saying that Wrigley is more structurally sound than the Cell, but age isn't necessarily a good barometer. As you correctly say, engineering design is light years ahead of where it was 90 years ago. However, since the engineers of 90 years ago didn't know what engineers know today, they generally tended to err on the side of safety. Today, since the properties of materials are more precisely known, a structure can be built to a more refined degree of the loading it will reasonably forsee. The ideal structure is the one that just barely maintains an acceptable level of service throughout its entire life.

To see the strength of some older structures, look what happens when they try to demolish some of them. Or, just look at the number of old warehouses being turned into condos....

Lip Man 1
08-29-2005, 06:01 PM
Baines:

I'm guessing part of the reason they don't is because there are no rules or regulations about what comprises a 'legit' internet site. WSI would qualify under any guidelines but I'm thinking the Sox don't want every Tom, Dick or Harry applying for credentials because the have a 'blog.' Sooner or later some nut job who is refused a credential will wind up sueing the Sox over it. Therefore they refuse everyone equally.

Given how internet sites are becomming more and more credible I'm thinking rules and guidelines have to be established soon.

Lip

TornLabrum
08-29-2005, 07:39 PM
For the record:

Scott Reifert replied to my email and will be sending me a copy of the story from the Southtown that reported the actual purpose of the concrete being removed. Assuming it gets here by Sunday morning, this false story that went unchallenged by both Ofman and Rogers will be the subject of my next column here.