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RedHeadPaleHoser
08-27-2005, 09:33 AM
I was running out this morning to get milk - the radio was still on AM 1000 from last night's game...Kurchian was being interviewed via phone, and the subject of Frank Robinson's comment about throwing out Palmeiro's record came up.

Kurchian stated that he will still vote for Palmeiro for the HoF, that the records hold up despite his suspension. He then said that baseball has NEVER thrown out the careers of a baseball player because of accusations of cheating. I pulled over, grabbed my cell phone and called the station - then stopped because I figured it was tape delay. I was screaming at the radio - what about the 1919 White Sox? THEN, Kurchian said that steroid use was like corking a bat - not that serious.

***???:?:

RallyBowl
08-27-2005, 09:45 AM
Amazing how someone with supposed "baseball knowledge" can get paid so much and be a well known figure while actually knowing absolutely nothing.

FielderJones
08-27-2005, 10:37 AM
I was screaming at the radio - what about the 1917 White Sox?

Umm, I think you mean the 1919 team.

Soxzilla
08-27-2005, 11:53 AM
Or that one fellow...you know, that played for the Reds.

He wasn't very good though.

SouthSide_HitMen
08-27-2005, 12:34 PM
Gaylord Perry is in the Hall Of Fame - he threw a spitball for 314 victories. Several other spitball pitchers are in the hall. So are players who used corked bats, greenies, cocaine, and other banned and illegal substances.

It is asinine to say "all records must be thrown out." There was no testing until recently. Even with testing all it proves is the player has the steroids in his system now - you cannot test for use years ago.

The best baseball can do is act honestly for a change with the problem, get better testing and impose tougher penalties to get the players off of this in the future and save some lives.

Over By There
08-27-2005, 12:41 PM
Did Kurchian say anything about Jose Valentine or Mark Burly?

RedHeadPaleHoser
08-27-2005, 12:45 PM
Corrected - 1919 WS. My typo.

I agree that records just don't get thrown out - baseball has, collectively, looked the other way for spitballs, scuffballs, bat juicing, etc. In the past 15 years or so has there been a crackdown on that. However, steroids are illegal substances - not just in baseball. It's a different discussion.

Tragg
08-27-2005, 01:10 PM
I'm not convinced that Palmero is a hall of fame player, steroids or not. He's just not a "great" player. This is an era of inflated stats as well.

itsnotrequired
08-27-2005, 01:47 PM
I'm not convinced that Palmero is a hall of fame player, steroids or not. He's just not a "great" player. This is an era of inflated stats as well.

But there's been eras of inflated stats throughout baseball history. Look to the juiced ball era of the early 20s to the widened strike zone in the 70s. Baseball has always fiddled with the game to find that optimum mix of offense and pitching.

Ruth hit 29 homers in 1919, a record that at the time was seen as a record that would never be broken. The next year he hit 54 thanks to a juiced up ball. His records shouldn't count.

Ol' No. 2
08-27-2005, 02:49 PM
I'm not convinced that Palmero is a hall of fame player, steroids or not. He's just not a "great" player. This is an era of inflated stats as well.Depends on how you define great. Palmeiro never had great seasons. His claim to fame is his longevity and the fact that he's been able to maintain a high level of productivity for many years, amassing tremendous career numbers. That, taken at face value, is sufficient HOF qualification.

However, it's painfully obvious that this longevity was due to steroids and not his own ability. Without the steroids, he never would have been able to maintain that productivity this late in his career, and he wouldn't be close to the career numbers he has. That, IMO, is reason enough to discount those career stats. Without those, he's not a HOF player.

RedHeadPaleHoser
08-27-2005, 06:59 PM
Depends on how you define great. Palmeiro never had great seasons. His claim to fame is his longevity and the fact that he's been able to maintain a high level of productivity for many years, amassing tremendous career numbers. That, taken at face value, is sufficient HOF qualification.

However, it's painfully obvious that this longevity was due to steroids and not his own ability. Without the steroids, he never would have been able to maintain that productivity this late in his career, and he wouldn't be close to the career numbers he has. That, IMO, is reason enough to discount those career stats. Without those, he's not a HOF player.

Well said.

fquaye149
08-27-2005, 08:52 PM
Depends on how you define great. Palmeiro never had great seasons. His claim to fame is his longevity and the fact that he's been able to maintain a high level of productivity for many years, amassing tremendous career numbers. That, taken at face value, is sufficient HOF qualification.

However, it's painfully obvious that this longevity was due to steroids and not his own ability. Without the steroids, he never would have been able to maintain that productivity this late in his career, and he wouldn't be close to the career numbers he has. That, IMO, is reason enough to discount those career stats. Without those, he's not a HOF player.

the point is that he stakes his HOF claim on his numbers and the uniqueness of his accomplishments. Due to increasing offense, his numbers are not so unique. In his era, his accomplishments aren't that impressive, even from a longevity standpoint.

chaerulez
08-27-2005, 11:32 PM
Morons like Kurchian don't realize that these steroids are illegal to own or use outside of baseball. It's like using a recreational drug- you wouldn't get in as much trouble- but its still illegal. You can't go to jail for walking around with some piece of cork.

Nellie_Fox
08-28-2005, 12:21 AM
Who is Kurchian???

RedHeadPaleHoser
08-28-2005, 04:13 PM
Who is Kurchian???

What better way to close this thread??