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oldcomiskey
08-21-2005, 09:37 AM
is Crede like Ventura when he started--I mean looking back on Robin when he first got here he was awful at the plate and his defense is what kept him in----now you look at this club for what it is. our leadoff guy is on the DL and our power hitter is hurting---like to see what the red sox would do without Damon and Ramirez for awhile---or the Yankees without Jeter and Sheffield. I think Nelly said it best--this team has been incredible for 110 games and sucked in 10--meanwhile Marriotti is still pushing for Griffey and others who have cleared waivers and the way I see it we are weak ofensively at 3rd and short but crede and uribe have had a great defensive season. yes Sweeney or even Griffey would be nice---but someone tell these morons its not a question of will they disrupt the chemistry--its who would we have to give up and where would they play.
Im not worried. all teams go thru stretched like this. Oaklaad and Houston have had to have, it seems, devine intervention to get back in the race. the only team that hasnt slumped so far this year is St. Louis and they will wait til October to have theirs. I hope we dont join them then-in the post season slump that is

Rooney4Prez56
08-21-2005, 09:42 AM
I'm with you on everything excpet for Griffey being nice for the team. He's having a career year, it won't last, and he's a terrible clubhouse player.

soxnfargo
08-21-2005, 12:17 PM
Did you play with him in the majors?

I hate it when people make statements like that without being involved with the person. Realisticly, you don't know that about the person, so why say that?
Where did you get that info from?

If you wanna go by what former team members have said, i've heard different. I've heard he's a great guy to play with. But, I don't know for sure how he is in the clubhouse so i can't say for sure..

Tragg
08-21-2005, 12:22 PM
is Crede like Ventura when he started--I mean looking back on Robin when he first got here he was awful at the plate and his defense is what kept him in----now you look at this club for what it is.... yes Sweeney or even Griffey would be nice-
I have supported crede and like his D, but it's getting close to put up time; I recall Ventura starting his career like 0/21; just looking at Crede with my amateur eye I think he would have benefitted from the Wriniak style that helped frank and ventura (the poster boy for wriniak).

Griffey - sure
Sweeney - we have 4-5 Sweeneys on this team. No thanks.

dickallen15
08-21-2005, 12:23 PM
I'm with you on everything excpet for Griffey being nice for the team. He's having a career year, it won't last, and he's a terrible clubhouse player.
Griffey's having a career year? You need a Baseball Encyclopedia.

JRIG
08-21-2005, 01:34 PM
is Crede like Ventura when he started--I mean looking back on Robin when he first got here he was awful at the plate and his defense is what kept him in---

Joe needs a big :thumbsup: from the board. After yesterday's game, he is now on pace to DECLINE in BA, OBP, AND SLG for the third consecutive year since 2002!!

BA: .285, .261, .239, .237
OBP: .311, .308, .299, .290
SLG: .515, .433, .418, .416

Congratulations, Joe!

santo=dorf
08-21-2005, 01:37 PM
I'm with you on everything excpet for Griffey being nice for the team. He's having a career year, it won't last, and he's a terrible clubhouse player.

:?:

:tealpolice: ?

WizardofOZ
08-21-2005, 01:43 PM
:threadsucks

Where's todays lineup?

UofCSoxFan
08-21-2005, 01:59 PM
I'm with you on everything excpet for Griffey being nice for the team. He's having a career year, it won't last, and he's a terrible clubhouse player.

I've never hear any player say Junior was a bad clubhouse guy. Plus, didn't people say the same thing about AJ?

samram
08-21-2005, 02:26 PM
I'm with you on everything excpet for Griffey being nice for the team. He's having a career year, it won't last, and he's a terrible clubhouse player.

Career year? No. This guy was one of the great all-around players ever, IMO. If you look at his numbers from 1992-1999, you'll see this year is really nothing special for him.

FarWestChicago
08-21-2005, 02:32 PM
Griffey's having a career year? You need a Baseball Encyclopedia.Yes, he does. I suspect he was a bit young when Griffey was putting up his first 500 homers. :redneck

maurice
08-22-2005, 01:53 PM
Crede is not at the start of his career. This is his 6th season and 3rd full season as a starter. He should be entering his prime.

At Crede's age, Ventura posted .295 AVE, .384 OBP, .498 SLG, 93 RBI.

VenturaSoxFan23
08-22-2005, 01:58 PM
I've never hear any player say Junior was a bad clubhouse guy. Plus, didn't people say the same thing about AJ?

Only in San Francisco. The Twins loved him to death. Still do, in fact.

I'm pulling for Joe. I have a soft spot in my heart for 3rd basemen. All Joe needs to do is change his number like Robin did and he'll be fine.

LauraJ14
08-22-2005, 02:03 PM
Crede is not at the start of his career. This is his 6th season and 3rd full season as a starter. He should be entering his prime.

At Crede's age, Ventura posted .295 AVE, .384 OBP, .498 SLG, 93 RBI.

In 2000 he played in 7 games, 2001 he played 17 games
2002 he came up in July and played in 53 games.
He became the full time starter in 2003, so entering this year, he had 2 full seasons as a starter. Maybe his prime is going to start a little later.

I know that Robin was a good player for the Sox but I remember several seasons when he barely got his average to .250 by the end of the year. I think some of his better hitting years were with the Mets at the end of his career.

VenturaSoxFan23
08-22-2005, 02:11 PM
Robin was more of a clubhouse leader. He put up his 20-25 HR and was the heart of those teams.
I thought he was a helluva player myself, but then again I'm biased. :cool:

Brian26
08-22-2005, 02:14 PM
I know that Robin was a good player for the Sox but I remember several seasons when he barely got his average to .250 by the end of the year. I think some of his better hitting years were with the Mets at the end of his career.

Not counting his first full year (1990), Robin consistently batted between .280 and .290. I think he had a year or two at .262 or .265, but never below that. Actually, his first year below .250 was after he joined the Mets.

Hangar18
08-22-2005, 02:14 PM
I think some of his better hitting years were with the Mets at the end of his career.


Thats because he went to the National League, a much easier, more Bogus league

maurice
08-22-2005, 02:26 PM
Let's look at Robin's 1st 3 full seasons:
- Age 22: .249, .324, .318, 54 RBI
- Age 23: .284, .367, .442, 100 RBI
- Age 24: .282, .375, .431, 93 RBI

So, by his 3rd full season, Ventura established himself as a .280-something hitter with a very good OBP, some power, and lots of RBI. That's much, much more than Crede has done by age 27. In addition, while Ventura quickly improved to a high level of play, Crede has done the opposite over 483 career games and 1,653 ABs. See JRIG's post for the specifics.

slavko
08-22-2005, 02:30 PM
I have supported crede and like his D, but it's getting close to put up time; I recall Ventura starting his career like 0/21; just looking at Crede with my amateur eye I think he would have benefitted from the Wriniak style that helped frank and ventura (the poster boy for wriniak).

IMO, Ventura was one of the greatest hitters ever to come out of college ball. He started his career more like 0 for 44 because he was trying to adjust to the Hriniak style. Some, including myself, believe he never realized his potential because of Walt Hriniak IIRC Big Frank had a similar rocky start for the same reason.

maurice
08-22-2005, 02:34 PM
IIRC Big Frank had a similar rocky start for the same reason.

No, Frank hit .330, .454, .529 in 60 games as a 22-year-old rookie and never looked back.