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Irishsox1
08-19-2005, 10:10 PM
Oh man, is this painfull to watch. Does anyone know the exact date Podsednick gets back? This is way too painful to watch.

ChiSoxRowand
08-19-2005, 10:11 PM
Offense sucked again.

FielderJones
08-19-2005, 10:12 PM
It didn't help that our hottest hitter since the break, and HR leader, hurt his back. Maybe Herm needs to hire a team chiropractor.

DickAllen72
08-19-2005, 10:13 PM
All is well, we still have the best record in base...er..in the American league. Anyway, we still have a double dig...er...single digit lead.At least we're drawing big crowds!

FloridaSox
08-19-2005, 10:14 PM
Lead is back in single digits. At least Kansas City is not gaining on us.

dpbyron
08-19-2005, 10:15 PM
Oh man, is this painfull to watch. Does anyone know the exact date Podsednick gets back? This is way too painful to watch.

Listless, lethargic, languid…. :angry: :angry: :angry:

Gigantor
08-19-2005, 10:15 PM
"Had it, got it, just underneath it"

mr_genius
08-19-2005, 10:15 PM
six game losing streak and

GROWING

:unsure:

cheeses_h_rice
08-19-2005, 10:16 PM
Full house? Yep.

Team craps the bed? Yep.


I would really like something to be done about the Sox's pathetic performances in front of large HOME crowds. This is getting rigoddamndiculous.

SoxSpeed22
08-19-2005, 10:16 PM
THIS SUCKS!

SOXSINCE'70
08-19-2005, 10:17 PM
Garland pitches his ass off,despite getting many noncalls,
and all we have is an RBI single by Pierzynski????

PAGING KEN WILLIAMS!!!THE TWINS AND INDIANS ARE WINNING!!!
THE LEAD IS 9!!!!!THE RACE ISN'T OVER YET!!!!!

DANGER, KEN WILLIAMS!!!DANGER!!!!!!!!!
MASSIVE AMBER ALERT ORDERED!!!!!

twinsuck1
08-19-2005, 10:18 PM
Griffey? We don't need him! Where we going to put him????????

What do you have to say now hawk????????????????

Trav
08-19-2005, 10:18 PM
You guys in the gamethread made me feel much better. Yeah, it sucks to slump and this is NOT how they win but every team slumps. Good thing we built up that commanding lead and have the room to slump. Can't say that about anyone else in baseball except the Cardinals. Just think, every other team would love to slump like this and still be in 1st.

mr_genius
08-19-2005, 10:19 PM
c'mon guys, stop bein dark clouds

fincher
08-19-2005, 10:19 PM
I'm bummin'. Absolutely pathetic batting. Very tough to watch.

Argalarga
08-19-2005, 10:19 PM
Sing it with me:

"And we're free...free fallin'..."

I feel bad for JG. He pitched a great game, but had to be perfect to get the win. It's an unbearable burden for our pitchers to have to literally shut out the other team to have a chance of getting a win.

Gigantor
08-19-2005, 10:20 PM
Good pitchings by Garland with a, for him at least, tight strike zone.
Did nothing with runners on base, 1 RBI, 6 hits, this was bad.

But we dont need Griffey......no way, where are we going to play him? I mean, come on.

DrummerGeorgefan
08-19-2005, 10:20 PM
One thing I dont like is that I dont see the guys on the team having fun. I understand its hard to have fun when you are in a slump, but it seems that earlier in the season, guys had a smile on their faces a bit more. And that translated to a looser team and a team that moved guys around station to station.

Ozzie needs to take theses guys out for a night of fun or at least find a way to get everyone's mind off of the big HR.

cheeses_h_rice
08-19-2005, 10:21 PM
Griffey? We don't need him! Where we going to put him????????

What do you have to say now hawk????????????????
If Hawk still feels that way, I feel bad for him. Denying this team any sort of offensive spark, regardless of who it may put out of position, is a crime.

twinsuck1
08-19-2005, 10:22 PM
Sometimes Hawk can be such a MORON!

samram
08-19-2005, 10:22 PM
Look, with the lineup the Sox ran out there tonight, they were lucky to score. If that's the lineup that goes out there the rest of the season, the Sox may lose the division. However, that won't be the lineup, so I'm still not worried.

pczarapa
08-19-2005, 10:23 PM
If Hawk still feels that way, I feel bad for him. Denying this team any sort of offensive spark, regardless of who it may put out of position, is a crime.

*** does Hawk know? If we made the trade tomorrow he'd be praising it, tv down - radio up.

FarWestChicago
08-19-2005, 10:23 PM
But we dont need Griffey......no way, where are we going to play him? I mean, come on.:tealpolice:

:tealtutor:

twinsuck1
08-19-2005, 10:25 PM
We are giving the other teams In our division confidence now. Not a good thing when we are still going to play them quite a bit down the stretch. ***!!!!:angry:

GO GET GRIFFEY!!!!!!

KW, you always said that if we come out to the park you will pay the big market players! *** Is your excuse now big boy???????????????

Jerko
08-19-2005, 10:25 PM
At least the game was on Channel 9 since I always laugh when I hear the name Juan Carlos Fongool.


At least it's a quick turnaround with tomorrow's 12:15 start.

Lip Man 1
08-19-2005, 10:26 PM
It's hard to win when you can't score runs especially against good pitchers which I think the Sox will see at least through next weekend.

This is starting to get serious folks.

A lot of time left for this to go one way or another.

They can really use some help right now if that's possible to acquire.

Lip

twinsuck1
08-19-2005, 10:26 PM
*** does Hawk know? If we made the trade tomorrow he'd be praising it, tv down - radio up.

Your absolutely right! The only problem is when they are on Comcast the delay Is so bad you have no choice but to listen to the TV broadcast...

pczarapa
08-19-2005, 10:26 PM
Look, with the lineup the Sox ran out there tonight, they were lucky to score. If that's the lineup that goes out there the rest of the season, the Sox may lose the division. However, that won't be the lineup, so I'm still not worried.


I wouldn't be worried if it was just a slump, but where are the Sox going to turn? It's not like our pitching is bad, lord help us if the pitching staff hits a bump in the road. It's sad when a team gets a couple runs and puts the game out of reach. I just pray Konerko isn't seriously hurt and just needed the night off.

samram
08-19-2005, 10:27 PM
We are giving the other teams In our division confidence now. Not a good thing when we are still going to play them quite a bit down the stretch. ***!!!!:angry:

GO GET GRIFFEY!!!!!!

KW, you always said that if we come out to the park you will pay the big market players! *** Is your excuse now big boy???????????????

His excuse is the other team doesn't necessarily want to trade him. Tough to make trades when there isn't a trading partner.

DickAllen72
08-19-2005, 10:27 PM
DJ was right on tonight. When Uribe was up with a man on first, DJ pointed out that ARod was playing way back on the grass, and that if Uribe would just square around and bunt we would have a rally going, instead of trying to tie the game with a home run and popping up. The next pitch, Uribe swings for the fences and pops up!

Omar Vizquel, where are you???

Gigantor
08-19-2005, 10:27 PM
To hell with you and your facist teal police. I have my rights and I will use any variation of the aqua color scheme I want too.

pczarapa
08-19-2005, 10:28 PM
Your absolutely right! The only problem is when they are on Comcast the delay Is so bad you have no choice but to listen to the TV broadcast...

Oddly enough I can get Am1000 down here in Lexington after dark, but it's full of static and sounds like crap, but it's better than the tv crew.

FarWestChicago
08-19-2005, 10:28 PM
To hell with you and your facist teal police. I have my rights and I will use any variation of the aqua color scheme I want too.Actually, you are quite wrong about that.

Lip Man 1
08-19-2005, 10:28 PM
Uh oh Gigantor...

Lip

twinsuck1
08-19-2005, 10:28 PM
His excuse is the other team doesn't necessarily want to trade him. Tough to make trades when there isn't a trading partner.

SO WHAT!!! You have all these freakin' sellouts at the park now, go out and pay him straight up! No trades needed, you don't know If we will be in this position again. DO NOT PISS THIS AWAY KW!!!

FarWestChicago
08-19-2005, 10:30 PM
Uh oh Gigantor...

LipCertainly a rather silly fellow. At least he offered a comedic break in these trying times. :smile:

Argalarga
08-19-2005, 10:30 PM
This slump is like being executed by having your toenails pulled out. Excruciating and seemingly endless.

I know we still have a 9.5 game lead and are 29 over .500. But if this spiral keeps going, even if we win a game here and there, we'll be in serious trouble, especially since we see the Indians 6 times right at the end of the year. If our lead shrinks to 5 or 6 with three weeks left, things could go really bad. And if it happens...let's just say KW will have to update his resume.

TheOldRoman
08-19-2005, 10:30 PM
If Hawk still feels that way, I feel bad for him. Denying this team any sort of offensive spark, regardless of who it may put out of position, is a crime.
(Sigh) Hawk never felt that way. Hawk's job is to sell the team to the viewers. It wouldn't look very good if he said:
:hawk
"We really need Ken Griffey Jr. I was talking with my good friend Homefish about this, and we agree that this team just isn't built for the playoffs. Our offense to this point has been a mirage, and we desperately need another hitter. Griffey would immediately become the best hitter in our lineup. Because we need him so badly, he could almost pick his spot in the lineup. He wants to play some gold glove CF tonight? Sure. He wants to DH tomorrow? No prob. LF on Sunday, 1B on Monday? Whatever you want Junior. Where COULDN'T we play him?"

Hawk knows our problems, and so do the viewers. He isn't fooling anybody. But on the other hand, he can't come out and insult the players who have worked for us all year by saying that we NEED someone.

samram
08-19-2005, 10:31 PM
SO WHAT!!! You have all these freakin' sellouts at the park now, go out and pay him straight up! No trades needed, you don't know If we will be in this position again. DO NOT PISS THIS AWAY KW!!!

He's under contract with another team, who happens to pay him. Therefore, the Sox can't just go and offer to pay him more. If you mean the Sox should offer to assume the entire contract, that's fine and would be a good move, but the Reds still have to agree to trade him. KW can hold his breath and stomp his feet, but if the Reds still say no, well, there's not a whole hell of a lot KW can do.

pczarapa
08-19-2005, 10:33 PM
This slump is like being executed by having your toenails pulled out. Excruciating and seemingly endless.

I know we still have a 9.5 game lead and are 29 over .500. But if this spiral keeps going, even if we win a game here and there, we'll be in serious trouble, especially since we see the Indians 6 times right at the end of the year. If our lead shrinks to 5 or 6 with three weeks left, things could go really bad. And if it happens...let's just say KW will have to update his resume.

KW won't have to update his resume, he's in tighter with Jerry than any other previous GM the Sox have had. KW's done a nice job, and I'm sure he knows that we're in a little trouble here. I don't know if getting swept by the Yankees would prompt anything rash, but I have to think he'll make a move to plug the leak in this ship. If Cleveland sweeps the O's and we lose this series to the Yanks the lead is at 7.5 and then things get really scary with all the divisional games in September.

BeviBall!
08-19-2005, 10:34 PM
3 stinking hits in the final 8 innings. The team has zero energy which makes the stadium a mortuary.

I also leanred something troubling about this team tonight... we have no leader. If PK is down for any length of time... we might only be up 6 by 9/1. Is it conceivable at this point to expect us to win any of the 3 games in Minny right now? Let alone the final two in this series.

Williams has to do something and fast. All this team needs is a spark and you ain't gonna get that from Geoff Blum or Timo. Pick up Griffey's contract.

pczarapa
08-19-2005, 10:35 PM
3 stinking hits in the final 8 innings. The team has zero energy which makes the stadium a mortuary.

I also leanred something troubling about this team tonight... we have no leader. If PK is down for any length of time... we might only be up 6 by 9/1. Is it conceivable at this point to expect us to win any of the 3 games in Minny right now? Let alone the final two in this series.

Agreed, can't do anything about the injuries, but I'm sincerely worried right now.

itsnotrequired
08-19-2005, 10:35 PM
Ugh. Seems like the offense is still on vacation. Anytime they would like to come back is fine with me.:(:

cubhater
08-19-2005, 10:35 PM
Full house? Yep.

Team craps the bed? Yep.


I would really like something to be done about the Sox's pathetic performances in front of large HOME crowds. This is getting rigoddamndiculous.

Maybe fans should just stay away so the Trib can bring up sorry attendance articles again.

Mussina pitched a hell of a game combined with our sorry offense.

I got sick of Hawk's whining tonight.

twinsuck1
08-19-2005, 10:36 PM
He's under contract with another team, who happens to pay him. Therefore, the Sox can't just go and offer to pay him more. If you mean the Sox should offer to assume the entire contract, that's fine and would be a good move, but the Reds still have to agree to trade him. KW can hold his breath and stomp his feet, but if the Reds still say no, well, there's not a whole hell of a lot KW can do.

I guarantee that If KW offered to pick up Griffeys whole contract the REDS would let him go no problem! I don't care what you hear on the radio and In the papers about worrying about the new owner not having Griffey as a selling point. I does not take a genius to know that the Reds are hoping someone will take on that huge contract....:angry:

batmanZoSo
08-19-2005, 10:36 PM
He's under contract with another team, who happens to pay him. Therefore, the Sox can't just go and offer to pay him more. If you mean the Sox should offer to assume the entire contract, that's fine and would be a good move, but the Reds still have to agree to trade him. KW can hold his breath and stomp his feet, but if the Reds still say no, well, there's not a whole hell of a lot KW can do.

Well, if it comes down to it, KW will just have to use force. Either that or I'm prepared to kidnap any offensive weapon we need.

TheOldRoman
08-19-2005, 10:38 PM
His excuse is the other team doesn't necessarily want to trade him. Tough to make trades when there isn't a trading partner.

Nonsense. Kenny needs to get Griffey right now. I want him on a flight to O'Hare within the hour. There is no excuse. Any GM will trade any player for anything at any time at the request of another GM. Oh, and another thing, we better not give up any prospects. Willie and Borchard should get the job done.

twinsuck1=:kukoo:

Kenny is doing his best. I believe we will have Griffey before the end of the month, but it's frustrating as hell watching our hitters go out there lifeless and put up a single run against a has-been pitcher. We need him, but it would be irresponsible for KW to give the Reds anything they wanted.

twinsuck1
08-19-2005, 10:40 PM
TheOldRoman=:whiner:

BeviBall!
08-19-2005, 10:40 PM
There are other options. Pay the moon for Sweeney... get Ibanez and Guardado. Any of these players can be had, it just depends on how stubborn everyone is over one Brandon McCarthy.

The magic number is 33 and I seriously doubt our lead will shrink past 6 the rest of the way especially since Minny and Cleveland play each other 6 more times. I really panic if we keep playing this way when Pods gets back. I'm worried about October. Boston/Anaheim would absolutely destroy us like this.

cubhater
08-19-2005, 10:41 PM
To hell with you and your facist teal police. I have my rights and I will use any variation of the aqua color scheme I want too.

:DJ

Uh oh!

Viva Medias B's
08-19-2005, 10:44 PM
Tonight was extreme worst case scenario with us losing and Cleveland & Minnesota winning. Call me a dark cloud all you want, but I am beginning to get nervous about this.

TheOldRoman
08-19-2005, 10:44 PM
TheOldRoman=:whiner:
Yes, me and my damn logic. Rest assured that Kenny probably hasn't slept 8 hours in the last week. He is exhausting EVERY option, including Griffey. He wants Junior on our team badly, and he is trying his best. You can't always get what you want, and you can't get any player you want for a reasonable price. Demand dictates cost.

Frankfan4life
08-19-2005, 10:45 PM
I remember when I thought a 3-game losing streak was the end of the world. I now look back on those times as the "good old days." :(:

DickAllen72
08-19-2005, 10:47 PM
There are other options. Pay the moon for Sweeney... get Ibanez and Guardado. Any of these players can be had, it just depends on how stubborn everyone is over one Brandon McCarthy.

I wouldn't believe what Cowley reported. Reports are that Guardado was pulled off waivers after being claimed by a team.

TheOldRoman
08-19-2005, 10:47 PM
There are other options. Pay the moon for Sweeney... get Ibanez and Guardado. Any of these players can be had, it just depends on how stubborn everyone is over one Brandon McCarthy.

The magic number is 33 and I seriously doubt our lead will shrink past 6 the rest of the way especially since Minny and Cleveland play each other 6 more times. I really panic if we keep playing this way when Pods gets back. I'm worried about October. Boston/Anaheim would absolutely destroy us like this.
Actually, the Guardado thing was false. He didn't clear waivers. B Mac couldn't be part of a trade now because he would need to clear waivers.

Actually, I don't think Boston and Anaheim would "destroy" us like this. We would likely get swept playing the way we are now, but all the games would be excruciatingly painful and low scoring, where a two run first inning for the opposition lets us know that we will lose.

CaptainBallz
08-19-2005, 10:48 PM
Offensive offense...

Watched the "game" from the clubhouse after a round of mediocre golf while discussing the space/time continuum and why modern rock radio blows....

All I learned is that "This too shall pass...."

itsnotrequired
08-19-2005, 10:48 PM
Full house? Yep.

Team craps the bed? Yep.


I would really like something to be done about the Sox's pathetic performances in front of large HOME crowds. This is getting rigoddamndiculous.

This makes these losses even tougher to handle. Crowds are beating the doors down to come watch the Sox play and they are putting on a poor show. 6-11 record at home sine the All Star break (6-14 if you want to throw in the Oakland sweep). I mean, they've averaged over 35k+ a game since the All Star break. Too bad for the fans.:(:

I've been to four games since the All Star break. 1-3 record.

BeviBall!
08-19-2005, 10:49 PM
I wouldn't believe what Cowley reports. Reports are that Guardado was pulled off waivers after being claimed by a team.

True... forgot that minor detail. Well, scratch that and let me add: Bring up Baj. Hell, Dmitri Young would look like Killabrew right now.

twinsuck1
08-19-2005, 10:51 PM
TheOldRoman=Hawk

Such a company man!

1917!!!!!!!!!
Need I say more!

:angry:

BeviBall!
08-19-2005, 10:52 PM
I see Big Unit is starting on Sunday instead of Jaret Wright. Boy the good news keeps flooding in.

Flight #24
08-19-2005, 10:54 PM
There are other options. Pay the moon for Sweeney... get Ibanez and Guardado. Any of these players can be had, it just depends on how stubborn everyone is over one Brandon McCarthy.

The magic number is 33 and I seriously doubt our lead will shrink past 6 the rest of the way especially since Minny and Cleveland play each other 6 more times. I really panic if we keep playing this way when Pods gets back. I'm worried about October. Boston/Anaheim would absolutely destroy us like this.

Well, if things keep up, I'm fairly certain that KW will empty the farm to get some help. However, I highly doubt that either McCarthy or Anderson will clear waivers, so that should mean that any desperation trades will not involve those guys.

Hopefully the primary issue with the Reds is the amount of $$$ we take on, and hopefully KW has the ability to add Griffey's whole deal if necessary. I'd think that should be possible, even if it costs you Konerko in the offseason. I've come around on Paulie, but I'd take that as a longer-term loss to gain an impact bat right now.

Mr. White Sox
08-19-2005, 10:55 PM
I see Big Unit is starting on Sunday instead of Jaret Wright. Boy the good news keeps flooding in.


Better than facing Aaron Small. [50% teal]

TheOldRoman
08-19-2005, 10:58 PM
TheOldRoman=Hawk

Such a company man!
1917!!!!!!!!!
Need I say more!

:angry:

I am far more rational than Hawk.:cool:
My point is, it takes two to tango. Kenny can offer the moon for Griffey, but if the Reds are convinced that they shouldn't trade him (which they are bluffing right now) it wont make a difference. We suffered from clearly the worst trade deadline ever in the MLB, but it wasn't because KW wasn't trying. Who knows what the Reds are asking for. The Mariners asked McCarthy for Ron frickin' Villone! The Phillies asked for Buehrle and Garland for Wagner. Both of those are players that would have helped the Sox, but not players we needed. Griffey is a player we need. The Reds might be asking for our top 8 prospects with us picking up the entire contract. I will give KW the benefit of the doubt until the details come out. If I was a betting man (which I am not, seeing as a guaranteed a win today:redface:) I would put money on Griffey wearing silver and black come Sept 1.

TheOldRoman
08-19-2005, 11:00 PM
Better than facing Aaron Small. [50% teal]
Yeah, we have killed all lefties aside from Barry Zito this year. Journeyman righties, AA callup righties, and righties well past their prime are the ones that give us real problems. We should do better against Johnson than Mussina.

BeviBall!
08-19-2005, 11:00 PM
Think Ozzie will exercise his injury policy on PK tomorrow even if he says he can go? If so, should we expect another 1 run, 6 hit performance on national TV?

I don't think so... I think it ends tomorrow with a decent effort from the offense.

JB98
08-19-2005, 11:01 PM
This makes these losses even tougher to handle. Crowds are beating the doors down to come watch the Sox play and they are putting on a poor show. 6-11 record at home sine the All Star break (6-14 if you want to throw in the Oakland sweep). I mean, they've averaged over 35k+ a game since the All Star break. Too bad for the fans.:(:

I've been to four games since the All Star break. 1-3 record.

I've been to four games since the All-Star break too:

SOX 7, Detroit 5
SOX 6, Boston 4
SOX 4, Seattle 2
SOX 3, Seattle 1

Looks like I'm 4-0, and I have tickets for tomorrow and Sunday.

ENOUGH OF THIS BS!!!!! LET'S GO!!!!!!
:angry: :angry:

NSSoxFan
08-19-2005, 11:02 PM
I would put money on Griffey wearing silver and black come Sept 1.

Don't put any money on that. Especially since the prospective new owner of the Reds is a big Griffey fan. You can talk all you want about rumors and such but if this deal was going to be done, it would have been done the day after Griffey cleared waivers.

We're either going to win or lose with the team we have, like it or not.

ChiSoxGirl
08-19-2005, 11:02 PM
This slump is like being executed by having your toenails pulled out. Excruciating and seemingly endless.

This is exactly right and I couldn't have said it better myself!

After watching the game tonight, I threw my remote down on the couch in disgust when the 27th out was made and came up here to my computer to visit with my lovely therapists, a.k.a. fellow WSIers!

This is beyond disgusting. Do you know what's worse? They actually had me fooled into thinking they were going to right the ship tonight in that 1st inning. There was some good 'ol Grinder Ball being played for those 15 minutes or so, and then it disappeared and went into witness protection or something because it was never found again.

I don't care who KW gets- Griffey or Ibanez- but something needs to be done like 5 minutes ago! 17-15 since the Break does not a successful appearance in the post-season make.

Domeshot17
08-19-2005, 11:04 PM
Twinsuck1, I agree with you on the need to to bring in someone big, and I am very frusterated at the lack of success KW has had, but you have to be faithful. ThisoldRoman is right, All Reports say it isnt that KW is not trying, it is that he is being hung up by reds ownership. The More Griffey hits, and the more We Fall, the More Lindberg and the Reds get to say, " Not Enough".

And just to say something a little off topic, just because Griffey cleared Waivers doesnt mean the reds want him gone, The Cubs put Prior on Waivers, most teams put like everyone on waivers, its just part of the process of being a GM, creates more flexibility.

With that said, I do agree with the consensus, BRING IN SOMEONE, ANYONE THAT CAN GET US FIRED UP. SIGN RICKEY HENDERSON TO a 2 MONTH DEAL. ANYONE THAT CAN SPARK THIS TEAM. LET TADA LEAD OFF, LET ANDERSON PLAY, LET TIMO ROT, AND TELL KARL ( Im spelling his name with a K until he learns to not be KOREY) TO STEP IT UP ( I really hope he is no longer with this team next year).

Viva Medias B's
08-19-2005, 11:08 PM
Ozzie and KW cannot be taking this losing streak calmly, especially since we've lost one third of our divisional lead. Do we know if either one of them has done a Bob Knight in the clubhouse?

cheeses_h_rice
08-19-2005, 11:08 PM
This makes these losses even tougher to handle. Crowds are beating the doors down to come watch the Sox play and they are putting on a poor show. 6-11 record at home sine the All Star break (6-14 if you want to throw in the Oakland sweep). I mean, they've averaged over 35k+ a game since the All Star break. Too bad for the fans.:(:

I've been to four games since the All Star break. 1-3 record.

For the first time this season, I'm beginning to see echoes of the Sox's collapses of September 2003 and July/August 2004. The failure to take advantage of home field and the large crowds that those months brought doomed us those years.

Not good.

TheOldRoman
08-19-2005, 11:10 PM
Don't put any money on that. Especially since the prospective new owner of the Reds is a big Griffey fan. You can talk all you want about rumors and such but if this deal was going to be done, it would have been done the day after Griffey cleared waivers.

We're either going to win or lose with the team we have, like it or not.
Well, there is a reason I am not a betting man. I think we will land Griffey because it makes far too much sense for both teams for this to not happen. No matter what they say, the Reds want to move Griffey. They are very talented at the ML level in the outfield, and Griffey's contract keeps them cellar dwellers with no pitching. Griffey is useless to them because they wont be a good team for at least another year. As for the "new owner" you spoke of, he would be very dumb bussiness wise to want Griffey there. Not only would it give him more money to work with, but he wouldn't be the one taking a possible public thrashing being the one who traded Griffey.
As for the reason is didn't happen the day after he cleared waivers - the Reds are playing poker. They want to get the best possible deal, so they will bide their time and pretend like they want to keep Junior. If they are thinking rationally, they will realize that A) he is worthless to them; B)the money saved on him could be used on much needed pitching; C)they can get some damn good prospects for him; and D) his value is the highest now that it will ever be for the remainder of his career. If the Reds don't dump him when they have the chance, they would look pretty dumb if Griffey lands on the DL again next year.

CarlosMay'sThumb
08-19-2005, 11:10 PM
Yes, me and my damn logic. Rest assured that Kenny probably hasn't slept 8 hours in the last week. He is exhausting EVERY option, including Griffey. He wants Junior on our team badly, and he is trying his best. You can't always get what you want, and you can't get any player you want for a reasonable price. Demand dictates cost.

Just wondering...how do you know this stuff?

Kenny made a big mistake doing nothing before the trading deadline. Crede needed to be replaced back then. Hermanson's shaky back was also a concern that went unadressed.

I just don't know how you know how hard Kenny's working and what his thought process is.

Vernam
08-19-2005, 11:21 PM
Half-full: If someone had told me in April that we'd have a 9.5-game lead in late August, I'd have been damn happy. If they'd told me we could lose six straight and still have a 9.5-game lead, I'd have said they were certifiable.

Half-empty: This is making me nostalgic for the 2004 brand of corpseball. The way they're swinging, this could just be the beginning of their skid, and I think that's what freaking people out. Iguchi appears to be the only guy with any sense of the strike zone. The rest of 'em are swinging at any slop they see. DJ was talking about how AJ swings at 1 of every 2 pitches. The immortal Flash Gordon cannot be touched, so just forget about Rivera. Does Greg Walker tell Pierzynski that righties will bust him inside with breaking balls? Does he tell Rowand they're going to throw him fastballs high and tight because everyone knows he can't lay off? Hriniak seems to have convinced Uribe to take some pitches, but the whole team (except maybe Crede) needs the same lesson.

OK, maybe that's 3/4 empty and 1/4 full. Gotta jump on the Yanks tomorrow, early and often.

VC

pczarapa
08-19-2005, 11:25 PM
Just wondering...how do you know this stuff?

Kenny made a big mistake doing nothing before the trading deadline. Crede needed to be replaced back then. Hermanson's shaky back was also a concern that went unadressed.

I just don't know how you know how hard Kenny's working and what his thought process is.

Not sure about ditching Crede, he's a hell of a defensive player, yet his batting is strictly offensive.

TheOldRoman
08-19-2005, 11:27 PM
Just wondering...how do you know this stuff?

Kenny made a big mistake doing nothing before the trading deadline. Crede needed to be replaced back then. Hermanson's shaky back was also a concern that went unadressed.

I just don't know how you know how hard Kenny's working and what his thought process is.
It is well known that KW is among the hardest working and most diligent GMs in baseball. He takes his job personally, and he wants to win as bad as any of us do. He regularly mentions "1917" as an excuse for why he works as hard as he does or why we need to go all out. Gammons said last June "if anybody can pry Garcia away from the Mariners, Williams can." He is aggressive almost to a fault, and he doesn't give up. He has been widely accused, more than once, of overpaying for talent. When he wants a player, he goes to any length to get him. KW has talked in interviews before about 20 hour days and how he got practically zero sleep the week before the trade deadline. When interviewed after the deadline, he said "No time to sleep now, I have to start looking over other team's rosters to find which players we may be able to get off the waiver wire. I am not saying KW is the best GM, but he is the hardest working. He wants to win, and he hasn't given up yet on Junior.

It may look like a mistake getting nobody at the deadline, but who could he possibly get to replace Crede? There were no decent everyday 3B available, so he picked up Blum to back him up. KW tried to get Wagner, but the Phils insanely asked for Buehrle and Garland. There comes a point where it isn't wise to make a trade no matter how good the player is. We suffered through the worst trade deadline ever. Because so many teams were still realistically in the race, there were very few sellers. The sellers overestimated their power, and asked WAY too much for their talent, which is why very few deals got done.

CarlosMay'sThumb
08-19-2005, 11:27 PM
Not sure about ditching Crede, he's a hell of a defensive player, yet his batting is strictly offensive.

Here's how sick I am of watching Crede...

Get Josh Fields up here tomorrow.:mad:

CarlosMay'sThumb
08-19-2005, 11:30 PM
It is well known that KW is among the hardest working and most diligent GMs in baseball. He takes his job personally, and he wants to win as bad as any of us do. He regularly mentions "1917" as an excuse for why he works as hard as he does or why we need to go all out. Gammons said last June "if anybody can pry Garcia away from the Mariners, Williams can." He is aggressive almost to a fault, and he doesn't give up. He has been widely accused, more than once, of overpaying for talent. When he wants a player, he goes to any length to get him. KW has talked in interviews before about 20 hour days and how he got practically zero sleep the week before the trade deadline. When interviewed after the deadline, he said "No time to sleep now, I have to start looking over other team's rosters to find which players we may be able to get off the waiver wire. I am not saying KW is the best GM, but he is the hardest working. He wants to win, and he hasn't given up yet on Junior.

Do you really believe that stuff? Zero sleep?! 20 hour workdays?! All to end up with Geoff Blum?

Please.:rolleyes:

JUribe1989
08-19-2005, 11:33 PM
When do the Blackhawks start? I think they will score more.

santo=dorf
08-19-2005, 11:34 PM
Do you really believe that stuff? Zero sleep?! 20 hour workdays?! All to end up with Geoff Blum?

Please.:rolleyes:

Can't help but notice how little you have been posting during the season. How's your "Jim Duquette For GM" campaign going? :kneeslap:

TheOldRoman
08-19-2005, 11:35 PM
Do you really believe that stuff? Zero sleep?! 20 hour workdays?! All to end up with Geoff Blum?

Please.:rolleyes:
Do you remember that something like 22 out of 30 teams were within 7 games of the wildcard at the deadline? Did you hear what other teams were asking for some of their talent? The best available pitcher was Burnett, and the Marlins decided to keep him since they couldn't get enough for him. No big trades were made, and very few trades at all went down. Blum isn't a superstar, but he was a solid pickup and he filled a hole. The asking prices were so high that all the other deals were unreasonable. The Rays asked for David Wright or Jose Reyes for the mediocre Danys Baez. What do you think the Rays wanted for Baez and Huff?

TheOldRoman
08-19-2005, 11:36 PM
Can't help but notice how little you have been posting during the season. How's your "Jim Duquette For GM" campaign going? :kneeslap:
Ok, I guess that explains his criticism of KW.

Letmehearya
08-19-2005, 11:40 PM
As pissed as I am right now, Kenny is not the problem. The problem begins and ends with the owner. How much additional revenue is being generated this year? Is any of it going into winning this thing? Gimme a break. Start focusing on the problem with this franchise - JR. AJ Burnett? Ken Griffey, Jr? Never. That costs a lot of money. That's why I noted [and many here did too] that Brandon McCarthy wouldn't be traded - he's INEXPENSIVE. So is Joe Crede. Until you have an ownership group that treats this club as a big market club, KW has to use smoke and mirrors to accomplish the unthinkable - a White Sox World Series Championship in my lifetime. I don't know what would happen to this franchise if they stand pat and blow a 15 game lead. I will forever despise Bowie Kuhn and Steinbrenner for nixing the DeBartolo purchase of the Sox. :angry:

CarlosMay'sThumb
08-19-2005, 11:41 PM
Do you remember that something like 22 out of 30 teams were within 7 games of the wildcard at the deadline? Did you hear what other teams were asking for some of their talent? The best available pitcher was Burnett, and the Marlins decided to keep him since they couldn't get enough for him. No big trades were made, and very few trades at all went down. Blum isn't a superstar, but he was a solid pickup and he filled a hole. The asking prices were so high that all the other deals were unreasonable. The Rays asked for David Wright or Jose Reyes for the mediocre Danys Baez. What do you think the Rays wanted for Baez and Huff?

Most of the stuff reported in the paper turns out to be wrong. Even Kenny says that a great majority of the trade rumors and asking prices discussed in the media are wrong. You have absolutely no way to know if the excuses for doing nothing are true. All that counts is what actually gets done. I don't believe for a minute that KW worked 20 hour days and came up with Geoff Blum. His actions suggest that he decided not to tinker with the team chemistry and hoped for the best.

Looks like a big mistake so far.

billyvsox
08-19-2005, 11:42 PM
Who thinks last Sunday's rainout wasn't an important thing now!!!!

I believe that game plus the homer by Cuddyer has taken the life out of us, like the Torii Hunter collision last year, and the continuing losses to Minnesota every time the calender hits August.

We need to dump Adkins and call up our fastest leadoff hitter in the system to show the club that we are committed to doing the little things. (Owens, C Thomas, Willie?).

Iguchi seems lost without Pods on base...everyone else just tries to homer every time up. Our 2 'duck snort' hits tonight in the 1st inning were results of big swings that turned out into lucky bloops.

Walker an Ozzie need to get on the guys now (start benching people) to go the opposite field, take pitches (walks??? praetel), attempt bunts. Even when these things dont work thaey at least put other thoughts into the pitchers.

I'm 39 years old an way overweight, but I believe I could have pitched a 4 hit shutout against us tonight.

Letmehearya
08-19-2005, 11:43 PM
Go get Sweeney. Bring up Greg Norton. He can't be any worse than Crede. What did Ross Gload ever do to deserve the doghouse treatment? Play with fire and lose - I can live with that. Play like you're playing out the string, you're gone in my book. This may sound wrong, but this team needs a good bench clearing brawl.

southsideirish71
08-19-2005, 11:45 PM
Go get Sweeney. Bring up Greg Norton. He can't be any worse than Crede. What did Ross Gload ever do to deserve the doghouse treatment? Play with fire and lose - I can live with that. Play like you're playing out the string, you're gone in my book. This may sound wrong, but this team needs a good bench clearing brawl.

Gload was 3-5 and had 5RBIS and a dong tonight. Yet we have Timo Perez doing his best impersonation of a baseball player.

JUribe1989
08-19-2005, 11:47 PM
Go get Sweeney. Bring up Greg Norton. He can't be any worse than Crede. What did Ross Gload ever do to deserve the doghouse treatment? Play with fire and lose - I can live with that. Play like you're playing out the string, you're gone in my book. This may sound wrong, but this team needs a good bench clearing brawl.

Norton is hitting .291 with 13 homers at AAA Charlotte. I do miss old Greg, and I absolutely despise Crede (5 for his last 45) at this point. If Konerko's back will be a problem we could get Sweeney if we offered to pay 60-70 percent of the salary. That's all the Royals would want I think, we could also give them Ryan Sweeney and Rogo.

schmitty9800
08-19-2005, 11:48 PM
Man that fireworks show was awesome!

At least JG didn't give up a homer!

samram
08-19-2005, 11:48 PM
Well, if it comes down to it, KW will just have to use force. Either that or I'm prepared to kidnap any offensive weapon we need.

Yeah, I offered to do that during the chat. Maybe we can get a posse together.

Lip Man 1
08-19-2005, 11:50 PM
This and that:

Just for point of discussion about Kenny. The Old Roman said that no third basemen were available at the deadline. That's wrong. Joe Randa was available yet San Diego somehow wound up with him. (Levine reported Williams thought he had deals done and locked for both Randa and Graffinino yet they were torpedoed at the last minute both times. If true the question that must be asked is 'why were they not completed?')

Look it's not Everett, Uribe, Crede or Konerko killing the Sox right now. Those guys are all .240 hitters. That's expected going in. What's murdering the Sox right now is that with Pods out, Iguchi, A.J., Dye and Rowand have tanked major time. For the Sox to win those guys need to keep hitting around .280 or so and drive in runs with smart-ball. They are not, and they aren't doing it collectively.

Next year I think Kenny will concentrate on eliminating as many of those .240 hitters that I named as possible and try to replace them with better all around hitters and athletes. That's the next phase of the make over of the White Sox.

However this season turns out, it's absolutely mind blowing that the Sox were able to re-invent themselves into a pitching and defensive orientated club and have as much success as they have had overnight, all inside of a single season. That needs to be remembered by everyone. This is not the finished product however far they go in the post season.

Lip

schmitty9800
08-19-2005, 11:51 PM
Also, Iguchi pretty much kept us in the game with his D. There were 2 balls that I was sure were hits but managed to throw em out.

Letmehearya
08-19-2005, 11:51 PM
Whatever happened to sending stiffs like Crede down to the minors and bringing up a replacement like Norton. Doesn't that provide an incentive for AAA guys that if they bust their %$# they could get a call-up? If we can't make a blockbuster, then shake the team up.

JUribe1989
08-19-2005, 11:53 PM
Anyone think there's a realistic chance of Gload being brought up? I think it's unfair that he was basically sent down because of 1 error. He will start hitting again if he gets up. He has something to prove and Ross is a good athlete. We need a left handed consistent hitting bat. Hell, we just need any bat. If Ross got sent down for one mistake, then why hasn't Adkins been sent down. We could send Adkins down and bring up Gload.

BigEdWalsh
08-19-2005, 11:55 PM
Whatever happened to sending stiffs like Crede down to the minors and bringing up a replacement like Norton. Doesn't that provide an incentive for AAA guys that if they bust their %$# they could get a call-up? If we can't make a blockbuster, then shake the team up.

Norton probably would hit a little better than Crede but he's pretty much a butcher in the field.:(:

ChiSoxRowand
08-19-2005, 11:55 PM
Whatever happened to sending stiffs like Crede down to the minors and bringing up a replacement like Norton. Doesn't that provide an incentive for AAA guys that if they bust their %$# they could get a call-up? If we can't make a blockbuster, then shake the team up.

Crede is a lot better than Norton defensively, plus Norton is not on the 40 man roster.

samram
08-19-2005, 11:55 PM
Here's how sick I am of watching Crede...

Get Josh Fields up here tomorrow.:mad:

Yep, a rookie who has never played above AA will "rescue" the Sox.

CarlosMay'sThumb
08-19-2005, 11:57 PM
This and that:

Just for point of discussion about Kenny. The Old Roman said that no third basemen were available at the deadline. That's wrong. Joe Randa was available yet San Diego somehow wound up with him. (Levine reported Williams thought he had deals done and locked for both Randa and Graffinino yet they were torpedoed at the last minute both times. If true the question that must be asked is 'why were they not completed?')

Look it's not Everett, Uribe, Crede or Konerko killing the Sox right now. Those guys are all .240 hitters. That's expected going in. What's murdering the Sox right now is that with Pods out, Iguchi, A.J., Dye and Rowand have tanked major time. For the Sox to win those guys need to keep hitting around .280 or so and drive in runs with smart-ball. They are not, and they aren't doing it collectively.

Next year I think Kenny will concentrate on eliminating as many of those .240 hitters that I named as possible and try to replace them with better all around hitters and athletes. That's the next phase of the make over of the White Sox.

However this season turns out, it's absolutely mind blowing that the Sox were able to re-invent themselves into a pitching and defensive orientated club and have as much success as they have had overnight, all inside of a single season. That needs to be remembered by everyone. This is not the finished product however far they go in the post season.

Lip

What about the early talk of Chavez before the A's started playing well?

As for all those .240 hitters, Everett and Konerko have histories of being much better than that and Uribe is a shortstop. Your third baseman better be able to hit the ball. Crede has sucked for years now at the plate. Kenny has to be faulted for doing nothing about him.

billyvsox
08-19-2005, 11:59 PM
This is no time to be sitting around saying things like "all teams have their slumps and were just having our now" or "were just a couple of big hits away from winning these games", etc...etc...etc

Shake things up NOW.


Middle of August is when the great teams start to seperate, look at Boston last year, Minnesota the last 3 years, the Angels, A's etc....

I dont care if we had a 20 game lead. playing big now against the big teams matters.

samram
08-20-2005, 12:00 AM
Most of the stuff reported in the paper turns out to be wrong. Even Kenny says that a great majority of the trade rumors and asking prices discussed in the media are wrong. You have absolutely no way to know if the excuses for doing nothing are true. All that counts is what actually gets done. I don't believe for a minute that KW worked 20 hour days and came up with Geoff Blum. His actions suggest that he decided not to tinker with the team chemistry and hoped for the best.

Looks like a big mistake so far.

Yeah, the rumors in the papers were wrong in that they were underestimating what the asking prices were for players. If the rumors were overestimating what was being asked, more deals would have been made. If KW made a mistake in not adding anyone, how big a mistake was it for Boston, NY, etc. to not add anyone significant? The fact is the impact players weren't really out there to be had for reasonable prices.

ChiSoxRowand
08-20-2005, 12:01 AM
Yep, a rookie who has never played above AA will "rescue" the Sox.

Not to mention that he is hitting .255.

southsideirish71
08-20-2005, 12:03 AM
What about the early talk of Chavez before the A's started playing well?

As for all those .240 hitters, Everett and Konerko have histories of being much better than that and Uribe is a shortstop. Your third baseman better be able to hit the ball. Crede has sucked for years now at the plate. Kenny has to be faulted for doing nothing about him.

I remember at the family values segment at Soxfest that they had talked about how Crede had the new batting cage built at his house and that he was working on his swing. For all the talk of his great defense, if this is the best we can expect his offense to be then he and Borchard can be punch lines to why we dont trade prospects.

Next year maybe he should kick the velocity up on it from 60mph.

kitekrazy
08-20-2005, 12:21 AM
I believe the Griffey trade was and still is nothing but a rumor. Ever since he was a Red, every year his name is mentioned in trade rumors. I don't see that changing.
The Sox needs were much different during the trade deadline. In fact there was very little activity among all teams since every team but the Royals felt they still had a chance.
At least were still seeing decent pitching and good defense. I don't know how many games you can lose in a row with those positives. I guess we'll find out.

Nellie_Fox
08-20-2005, 12:22 AM
If Hawk still feels that way, I feel bad for him. Denying this team any sort of offensive spark, regardless of who it may put out of position, is a crime.I'm sure that it's the fact that Hawk doesn't see a need for Griffey that's blocking the deal. Does anyone here have any idea what the Reds are asking for him? I didn't think so. You willing to give them Garland?

kitekrazy
08-20-2005, 12:25 AM
I'm sure that it's the fact that Hawk doesn't see a need for Griffey that's blocking the deal. Does anyone here have any idea what the Reds are asking for him? I didn't think so. You willing to give them Garland?

Well, the Red's organization has been denying that this trade talk existed. KW has been mum. Yet Sox fans still look for the straw man.

captain54
08-20-2005, 12:34 AM
This and that:

Next year I think Kenny will concentrate on eliminating as many of those .240 hitters that I named as possible and try to replace them with better all around hitters and athletes. That's the next phase of the make over of the White Sox.

However this season turns out, it's absolutely mind blowing that the Sox were able to re-invent themselves into a pitching and defensive orientated club and have as much success as they have had overnight, all inside of a single season. That needs to be remembered by everyone. This is not the finished product however far they go in the post season.

Lip

thank you for the most intelligent and insightful post I have read all year, my friend.

worst case scenario as it stands right now is that they Sox could possibly blow this lead and not make the playoffs....

JR and the powers that be would have no choice but to revamp this team offensively, if they have any desire at all to have people come back after such a monumental collapse....

pudge
08-20-2005, 12:42 AM
This and that:

However this season turns out, it's absolutely mind blowing that the Sox were able to re-invent themselves into a pitching and defensive orientated club and have as much success as they have had overnight, all inside of a single season. That needs to be remembered by everyone. This is not the finished product however far they go in the post season.

Lip

This absolutely is a finished product, this is not some kind of "rebuilding" team, even though they totally changed philosophy. Is the offense really going to be that much better next season if we're going to continue to put the focus on pitching? Do we really have the deep pockets to support a team with great pitching *and* a great offense? Hell no.

Next season, the Indians will be better, and so may the Tigers. There is no way the Sox will be a better team next year. I just don't see it. We'll be lucky to be as good as we've been this year.

chisoxmike
08-20-2005, 12:47 AM
Another painful game to be at. It made it worse that a Yankees couple was sitting behind me and was being...well...Yankee fans all night.

Another lifeless game by our Sox. Every ****ing guy on the team is trying to hit a home run, it needs to stop NOW! Geoff Blum goes up hacking... YOU ARE NOT GOING TO HIT A HOMER, STOP IT NOW! And if Carl goes down in three straight pitches again I'm going to scream!

These guys need to get their heads out of their asses right now.

PS- I love seeing the park jam packed, too bad we can't win when its like that.:whiner: :angry:

FarWestChicago
08-20-2005, 12:56 AM
I don't believe for a minute that KW worked 20 hour days and came up with Geoff Blum. His actions suggest that he decided not to tinker with the team chemistry and hoped for the best.Who the hell cares what you believe? :?:

Domeshot17
08-20-2005, 01:18 AM
Look it's not Everett, Uribe, Crede or Konerko killing the Sox right now. Those guys are all .240 hitters.


Well, 3/4 of that statement is true, except PK. Hes hittin about .270 and well over 300 since the break. He has been the lone sorce of Offense for the Sox thus far, with semi decent hitting coming from Tada and AJ. I agree on Karl Jaun and Crede, But Karl is the completely Blunder. He does not hustle, he is nothing more then a DH and 4th OF, atleast Crede and Uribe flash the leather. But to mention Konerko in that breath is untrue.

I disagree that Everett is not the problem, atleast a big piece. ( and I know its Carl, but until he stops Swining for the fences, I am associating the Same K Patterson was dubbed with). The 17th, he had a chance to move into 3rd on a blooper, but he jogged into second. The fans, who were in uproar of santanas no hitter ending, became comletely frusterated again and even Boo'd Everett's inability to move into 3rd. A Big play like that, the hustle, is what we have been lacking for a good 2 weeks. When the Yankees or Boston or Cardinals hit the wall, who carries the team, the Heart of the Order and the Starting Pitching. PK and AJ have done what they can, but Everett has been an automatic out since his 480 footer, Dyes average, which was coming back to respectable, has flat out Died. Aaron has not come through in the clutch offensively, and the back end has not stepped it up.

If the Red Sox were to lose 6 straight, would they be blaming Bellhorn/Graffanino or John Orlerud, or would the pressure go on the shoulders of Manny and Ortiz. I hate the Red Sox, but they have a good team, and that is the reason why. This team needs a big outburst, and 8-2 8-3 victory, not a 2-1 squeaker to get by, because right now, a 2-1 victory is like needing a prom date, and taking your cousin at the last second.

TFLEM33
08-20-2005, 01:24 AM
All year I have been nervous about this particular series of events occurring. It has just seemed too good to be true that my Chicago White Sox have the best record in baseball. When you look at our roster, you wonder, "how are we winning?" The answer is simply that we were playing as a TEAM. Everyone worked together to score runs. They were not swinging for the fences. They were not trying to get two hits in one at-bat. They moved runners along and played small ball. My heart goes out to Jon Garland. The way he pitched tonight, he was more than deserving of win number 17. The offense has flat out sucked. After the Cleveland series (just after the All-Star break) our guys act like they are just going through the motions. Granted, Podsednik has been playing through a slight injury and is now on the DL, but that should not matter. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if our offense relies that heavily on one player, then you can forget about the World Series. 1917 will have to suffice for now. We looked like we did not even deserve to be on the field with the Red Sox, we cannot beat the Athletics, and the Angels are surging. I am not even mentioning Minnesota and Cleveland who cannot seem to lose of late. Championship teams all have one thing in common, balance. Right now, we have none. We have pitchers who are OUTSTANDING, but if we don't score runs, it doesn't matter how many scoreless innings Garland, Buerhle, Garcia, or El Duque throws. Bottom line is this, Sox fans (of the white color) are long suffering. We all hold our breath throughout the year, waiting for us to choke. Well, my friends, that time has arrived. This is not the year. We may make the playoffs, but the World Series trophy will not belong to the White Sox this season. We have become complacent. We have become unmotivated, and we will not win the World Series. I have finally realized that I am doomed to continually root for a losing team, but as a baseball fan, I WILL stick by them. I will endure every loss. I will always hope, but in the back of my mind, I know we are doomed for failure.

TheOldRoman
08-20-2005, 01:24 AM
Just for point of discussion about Kenny. The Old Roman said that no third basemen were available at the deadline. That's wrong. Joe Randa was available yet San Diego somehow wound up with him. (Levine reported Williams thought he had deals done and locked for both Randa and Graffinino yet they were torpedoed at the last minute both times. If true the question that must be asked is 'why were they not completed?')

Levineline reported that we had deals for Graffanino and Randa, but they didn't materialize. Whether or not that is true, you can be the judge. We all know what a great track record he has had in the past. My point is, neither of those two would be an upgrade. Crede is a gold glove 3B, and we need his defense in our team. He doesn't hurt us much at the plate because he is an 8 or 9 hitter. We need great defense at third. While we could use an offensive improvement, 3B is not the place for it this year. A hitter can got 5 for 5 and do nothing to help the team win provided he doesn't bat any in and doesn't score himself. A player doesn't hurt the team going 0 for 5, but a player does hurt the team making an error or having a small defensive range. We needed insurance for Crede, and the insurance needed to be able to play good defense. Blum can play good defense, and is very versatile. There is not room for 2 3Bs on a 25 man roster, but there is room for an everyday 3B and a utilityman who can play a very good 3B. Defensive downgrade aside, Graffanino or Randa would be a nice replacement for Crede provided he couldn't play due to his back. However, they would hurt us on the roster due to a lack of versatility if Crede stayed healthy. BTW, Graf's career fielding % at 3B is .937 compared to Blum's solid .963. At 2B, Graf is at .980 while Blum is at .994. They are about the same at SS. Graffanino is a career .267 hitter, so there was no way to guarantee his .300 average with the Royals this year wasn't a fluke. For a backup 3B, Blum is the better choice.

mjmcend
08-20-2005, 01:35 AM
Hey at least the ballpark looked great from the blimp.

ChiSoxGirl
08-20-2005, 01:44 AM
Hey at least the ballpark looked great from the blimp.

I don't know if this got on anyone else's nerves, but didn't they show the aerial view like 50 times? I think I saw it 8 times in the first inning or two! Granted, the ballpark did look awesome on such a beautiful night, but a few too many aerial shots for my liking.

And another thing. What was with all of the shots of the Lake, Navy Pier, people on the outfield concourse, etc. while the game was going on? I was interested in seeing what was happening on the mound and at home plate, but was given shots of sailboats on Lake Michigan and the ferris wheel at Navy Pier instead. Was this a Cubs broadcast and no one informed me??

shoota
08-20-2005, 02:17 AM
I don't know if this got on anyone else's nerves, but didn't they show the aerial view like 50 times? I think I saw it 8 times in the first inning or two! Granted, the ballpark did look awesome on such a beautiful night, but a few too many aerial shots for my liking.

And another thing. What was with all of the shots of the Lake, Navy Pier, people on the outfield concourse, etc. while the game was going on? I was interested in seeing what was happening on the mound and at home plate, but was given shots of sailboats on Lake Michigan and the ferris wheel at Navy Pier instead. Was this a Cubs broadcast and no one informed me??

That disturbed me as well. WGN whored out the blimp shots.

What's with the outfield grass? There are many discolorations in Roger Bossard's outfield. Very ugly. This is the worst I remember seeing Comiskey park's grass.

shoota
08-20-2005, 02:22 AM
Levineline reported that we had deals for Graffanino and Randa, but they didn't materialize. Whether or not that is true, you can be the judge. We all know what a great track record he has had in the past. My point is, neither of those two would be an upgrade. Crede is a gold glove 3B, and we need his defense in our team. He doesn't hurt us much at the plate because he is an 8 or 9 hitter. We need great defense at third. While we could use an offensive improvement, 3B is not the place for it this year. A hitter can got 5 for 5 and do nothing to help the team win provided he doesn't bat any in and doesn't score himself. A player doesn't hurt the team going 0 for 5, but a player does hurt the team making an error or having a small defensive range. We needed insurance for Crede, and the insurance needed to be able to play good defense. Blum can play good defense, and is very versatile. There is not room for 2 3Bs on a 25 man roster, but there is room for an everyday 3B and a utilityman who can play a very good 3B. Defensive downgrade aside, Graffanino or Randa would be a nice replacement for Crede provided he couldn't play due to his back. However, they would hurt us on the roster due to a lack of versatility if Crede stayed healthy. BTW, Graf's career fielding % at 3B is .937 compared to Blum's solid .963. At 2B, Graf is at .980 while Blum is at .994. They are about the same at SS. Graffanino is a career .267 hitter, so there was no way to guarantee his .300 average with the Royals this year wasn't a fluke. For a backup 3B, Blum is the better choice.


Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

kitekrazy
08-20-2005, 02:22 AM
This absolutely is a finished product, this is not some kind of "rebuilding" team, even though they totally changed philosophy. Is the offense really going to be that much better next season if we're going to continue to put the focus on pitching? Do we really have the deep pockets to support a team with great pitching *and* a great offense? Hell no.

Next season, the Indians will be better, and so may the Tigers. There is no way the Sox will be a better team next year. I just don't see it. We'll be lucky to be as good as we've been this year.

Oh ye of little faith. I think I said the same thing before this season ever started because we didn't sign Maggs.
Did you think our 5th starter would have the most wins on the staff.
Did you think Scott P. would be an all star?
Did you think the Everette trade would actually benefit the team this year?

One season the Sox got away from station to station baseball. Looks pretty good to me.

pudge
08-20-2005, 02:32 AM
Oh ye of little faith. I think I said the same thing before this season ever started because we didn't sign Maggs.
Did you think our 5th starter would have the most wins on the staff.
Did you think Scott P. would be an all star?
Did you think the Everette trade would actually benefit the team this year?

One season the Sox got away from station to station baseball. Looks pretty good to me.

I think you miss my point entirely... I was all for the philosophical shift, and certainly didn't think we'd be any worse than we had been, and would probably be better.

But the idea that this is a building year to even bigger and better things is total nonsense. This is the best this team can do with the budget it has, folks.

Bisco Stu
08-20-2005, 02:33 AM
Streak ends Saturday. Sox win 6-3

CYGarland20
08-20-2005, 02:39 AM
There is no doubt in my mind that this team needs a MAJOR shot in the arm. We need a player like Griffey BAD!! There has to be some way we can get him. Eat the contract Jerry! I'm starting to get VERY worried about this team right now, and quite frankly since the beginning of this month. Everyone is swinging for the fences! Stop it! Please!! KW do SOMETHING before it's too late!!!........................................... ....Alright i feel better now :cool: But seriously, this offense is BRUTAL. If were going to rely on the long ball, then we need someone who can help supply it. i.e. Griffey

shoota
08-20-2005, 02:56 AM
My point is, neither of those two would be an upgrade.

Randa and Graffanino are better options than Joe Crede. No contest.

Crede is a gold glove 3B, and we need his defense in our team. He doesn't hurt us much at the plate because he is an 8 or 9 hitter.

Crede's an above average defensive player, but don't forget how many games his defense has cost the Sox victory. Multiple dropped popups. Multiple? ***? Unofficial errors where he bobbled the ball and could only get one out when it was a potential double play. His 8 official errors. His failure to pay attention and cover third when a baserunner is attempting to steal third.

Your statement that Crede doesn't hurt the Sox at the plate because he's a #8 hitter is moronic. A #8 hitter better be able to bunt, move runners over, and play small ball. He doesn't/can't.

While we could use an offensive improvement, 3B is not the place for it this year.

Third base is the worst hitting position on the team, thus the Sox have the most to gain by replacing him with an offensive improvement.

Even our no-hit, all-glove SS has a higher batting average than Crede. That's nothing new either, Uribe hit much better than Crede last year too.

A hitter can got 5 for 5 and do nothing to help the team win provided he doesn't bat any in and doesn't score himself. A player doesn't hurt the team going 0 for 5, but a player does hurt the team making an error or having a small defensive range.

I guess there is a specific scenario where your statement is correct, but statistics show that Randa isn't far from Crede defensively, while being much more productive offensively.

Graffanino is a career .267 hitter, so there was no way to guarantee his .300 average with the Royals this year wasn't a fluke. For a backup 3B, Blum is the better choice.

Forget the numbers for a moment and think about the type of hitter each man is. Crede is an all-or-nothing hitter who mostly comes up with nothing, cannot play smartball, and has horrible OBP (293!). Tony G is a contact hitter which is the type of hitter more conducive for the bottom of the order, and really, winning baseball. Tony can advance runners, play team ball, and give the quality at bats that Crede is incapable of.

Bottom line statistics:

Graffy: .315, .379 OBP, .415 SLG
Crede: .240, .293 OBP, .421 SLG
Randa: .278, .341 OBP, .463 SLG




Ideally, Randa should have replaced Crede as starting third baseman, and Graffy would fill the position of Blum.

shoota
08-20-2005, 03:07 AM
But seriously, this offense is BRUTAL. If were going to rely on the long ball, then we need someone who can help supply it. i.e. Griffey

No ****. If you're going to swing for the fences, you better hit home runs at a great ratio to plate appearances. If you can't, you better be playing small ball. And even if you are a home run hitter, stop swinging for the fences when the Sox are down more than one with nobody on base. These guys are trying to hit 3-run bombs with the bases empty. :kukoo:

The opposite of smart ball is SELFISH ball.

TheOldRoman
08-20-2005, 03:23 AM
Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Well, that is humorous coming from you seeing as you are INSANE and a borderline troll. Did you ever go to What's the Score? Did you check out Homefish's personal Dark Cloud thread? You see how we all laugh at Homefish? Well, that is you. I can assure you that 95% of this board rolls their eyes everytime they see you go off on Crede and talk about unofficial errors. Do you have any idea how absurd that is? "Official" and "unofficial" errors are one thing, but then you take away hits because they didn't come when it mattered to you? You are the Mariotti to Crede's Reinsdorf, and Hawk said this week that Moronotti has a Glen Close like obsession with Reinsy. I guess things have come full circle. I imagine you sitting alone in your basement with Crede's face on your dart board, watching the game and stabbing away at a Crede voodoo doll.

As for Crede, nobody here is saying that he is the best 3B in baseball, but he is 1000x better than you think he is. You ridiculously underrate his defense, and you seemingly underrate defense at 3B. No, Randa or Graff are not even close to as good defensively, and both of them would hurt the team with their gloves. No matter what you say, Crede hasn't lost games with his glove for us this year. His most crucial error was the dropped foul out from Ramirez, but if I remember correctly, he didn't throw the meatball to Manny on the next pitch, Viz did. How many times this year have you watched a bouncer hit down the first base line past the diving Konerko that most other first basemen would have gotten to? It is frustrating, and it costs us runs. Crede takes away hits like that down the thirdbase line. Randa is every bit the matador Konerko is on balls hit down the line, and he would cost us a lot of runs. I understand you are obsessive and delusional, but please try to keep it to yourself. Get a grip. Our number 3 and 4 hitters hitting .240-250 is a huge problem. Our number 8 hitter hitting that is not.

Wsoxmike59
08-20-2005, 07:03 AM
Here's how sick I am of watching Crede...

Get Josh Fields up here tomorrow.:mad:

Here's how sick of Joe Crede I am......GET GREG NORTON UP HERE TOMORROW!!!!

downstairs
08-20-2005, 07:09 AM
Who wants to play a game of "Guess what happens when you don't address weaknesses before the trading deadline?"

Well, all you people who bashed people like me for being "dark clouds"... well, here's that division race you were looking for. Enjoy!

I guess it IS more fun to be 9.5 up rather than 14, 15, 16, 20 up. I'm loving this.

downstairs
08-20-2005, 07:11 AM
You ridiculously underrate his defense, and you seemingly underrate defense at 3B.

Not to speak for shoota.... but I believe he was talking mostly of his offense.

One thing I do know about defense is that it is absolutely meaningless when 2 runs in is an insurmountable lead... which right now it is for us.

harwar
08-20-2005, 07:17 AM
I see two things happening here.
It seems as if every player is coming to the plate and swinging wildly at every pitch,no matter where it is.
Mussina knew this and threw the first one for a strike and then was nowhere near the plate while the White Sox players flailed away.
What happened to the White Sox who were patiently working the count(sans uribe) and waiting on the ball to drive it the other way and bunting when the opportunity presented itself?
Also,luck was on our side more often than not in the first half.
Now its gone,with every close call going the other way and the oppositions players making one tremendous play after another,to take the momentum from us.

soxjim
08-20-2005, 07:18 AM
I was tricked into believing that smart ball was back after the first inning. The way the Sox offense is playing 2 runs down is to much to overcome. Hard to believe they can't bunch 3 or 4 singles together.

TornLabrum
08-20-2005, 07:22 AM
From what I'm reading here, I'm glad I missed last night's game. Oh, well...Off to Nomadsfest! (I wonder how tailgating in the rain is....)

PaleHoseGeorge
08-20-2005, 08:16 AM
From what I'm reading here, I'm glad I missed last night's game. Oh, well...Off to Nomadsfest! (I wonder how tailgating in the rain is....)

Given the nature of this losing streak, I'm only surprised by one thing about this postgame thread:

Why isn't Balke telling us it all went south for the Sox when they optioned Willie Harris to Charlotte?

:cool:

SpammySosa
08-20-2005, 08:40 AM
Randa and Graffanino are better options than Joe Crede. No contest.



Crede's an above average defensive player, but don't forget how many games his defense has cost the Sox victory. Multiple dropped popups. Multiple? ***? Unofficial errors where he bobbled the ball and could only get one out when it was a potential double play. His 8 official errors. His failure to pay attention and cover third when a baserunner is attempting to steal third.

Your statement that Crede doesn't hurt the Sox at the plate because he's a #8 hitter is moronic. A #8 hitter better be able to bunt, move runners over, and play small ball. He doesn't/can't.



Third base is the worst hitting position on the team, thus the Sox have the most to gain by replacing him with an offensive improvement.

Even our no-hit, all-glove SS has a higher batting average than Crede. That's nothing new either, Uribe hit much better than Crede last year too.



I guess there is a specific scenario where your statement is correct, but statistics show that Randa isn't far from Crede defensively, while being much more productive offensively.



Forget the numbers for a moment and think about the type of hitter each man is. Crede is an all-or-nothing hitter who mostly comes up with nothing, cannot play smartball, and has horrible OBP (293!). Tony G is a contact hitter which is the type of hitter more conducive for the bottom of the order, and really, winning baseball. Tony can advance runners, play team ball, and give the quality at bats that Crede is incapable of.

Bottom line statistics:

Graffy: .315, .379 OBP, .415 SLG
Crede: .240, .293 OBP, .421 SLG
Randa: .278, .341 OBP, .463 SLG




Ideally, Randa should have replaced Crede as starting third baseman, and Graffy would fill the position of Blum.

Obsess much,Glenn?:rolleyes:

Dan H
08-20-2005, 09:51 AM
Griffey? We don't need him! Where we going to put him????????

What do you have to say now hawk????????????????

Hawk doesn't have anything to say. He is too busy kissing JR's behind.

If not Griffey, someone else. If Sox management is truly serious about winning this year, it will do something. Either that, or risk another Chicago baseball collapse.:angry:

starboy0
08-20-2005, 10:02 AM
Tonight was extreme worst case scenario with us losing and Cleveland & Minnesota winning. Call me a dark cloud all you want, but I am beginning to get nervous about this.

You should be. I sure am. Over the years I have seen plenty of collapses with teams surrendering big leads.

No Frank, Pods, Konerko + everyone else in slump = painful games to watch.

I thought for awhile it would not be good to get Griffey or Sweeney but now I've changed my mind. Need a spark to rekindle the excitement and swagger.

It's now at least *conceivable* the division won't be decided until after our last home game when the team finishes in Det and Cle. I didn't say probable nor likely; but now it could be possible.

An acquisition might be the corrective. I don't know if it's guaranteed that our boys will feel dissed. It might give them renewed faith that everyone's behind them.

ndu3t4
08-20-2005, 10:15 AM
No Frank, Pods, Konerko + everyone else in slump = painful games to watch.


It's not like Pauly and Scotty are out for the year. Konerko might even be in the lineup today and Scotty is supposed to come back August 29th. I said before the start of this series that we would take 2/3 and I'm sticking to that. I hope Ozzie puts Aaron in the leadoff spot today. He said he was gonna do that when Scott went down and I haven't seen it yet.

santo=dorf
08-20-2005, 12:26 PM
Ideally, Randa should have replaced Crede as starting third baseman, and Graffy would fill the position of Blum.

KW has already said he is surprised that Boston got Graffy and San Diego got Randa because he felt the Sox had a better offer than what those teams gave them.

That's too bad. Joe Crede really sucks. :(:

Hangar18
08-20-2005, 12:32 PM
Randa and Graffanino are better options than Joe Crede. No contest.



Crede's an above average defensive player, but don't forget how many games his defense has cost the Sox victory. Multiple dropped popups. Multiple? ***? Unofficial errors where he bobbled the ball and could only get one out when it was a potential double play. His 8 official errors. His failure to pay attention and cover third when a baserunner is attempting to steal third.

Your statement that Crede doesn't hurt the Sox at the plate because he's a #8 hitter is moronic. A #8 hitter better be able to bunt, move runners over, and play small ball. He doesn't/can't.



Third base is the worst hitting position on the team, thus the Sox have the most to gain by replacing him with an offensive improvement.

Even our no-hit, all-glove SS has a higher batting average than Crede. That's nothing new either, Uribe hit much better than Crede last year too.



I guess there is a specific scenario where your statement is correct, but statistics show that Randa isn't far from Crede defensively, while being much more productive offensively.



Forget the numbers for a moment and think about the type of hitter each man is. Crede is an all-or-nothing hitter who mostly comes up with nothing, cannot play smartball, and has horrible OBP (293!). Tony G is a contact hitter which is the type of hitter more conducive for the bottom of the order, and really, winning baseball. Tony can advance runners, play team ball, and give the quality at bats that Crede is incapable of.

Bottom line statistics:

Graffy: .315, .379 OBP, .415 SLG
Crede: .240, .293 OBP, .421 SLG
Randa: .278, .341 OBP, .463 SLG




Ideally, Randa should have replaced Crede as starting third baseman, and Graffy would fill the position of Blum.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm. I basically agree with everything youve said here.
Any improvement in Crede Offensively helps the team immensely. Ive also noticed the multiple drops, a couple of mishandled plays that cost us DP's,
but without anyone else to replace him offensively, he helps us much more defensively. One of the dumbest things we did was let Graffanino go (arguable why/how he left) Im the GM, im blocking the door and hiding Graffs car keys, he plays the infield positions, has a bat, and more importantly ......for the "smart ball" "grinder" offense we want, HE MAKES CONTACT!

Im sick of the wasted at-bats, which now in Credes case, I think is affecting him mentally. Bad play is like a disease, and it starts to spread to other parts of the White Sox, take this glaring example from last nites game.

Timo holding up at 3rd on the dropped pick up by Yankee lf Matsui (I saw the play, he shouldve rounded the base, a few steps towards home, checking the outfielders, he wouldve scored easily but 1. HESITATED 2. WAS ON THE BAG as opposed to a few steps off. DUMB) Theres no excuse for that Bozo to be holding up .......hes got Very Good SPEED!!!!!!!!! If he does what he shouldve done .......then the runner at 1st, (who ALSO should be rounding the base, checking for the Error, dropped ball, throw home)
automatically will take 2nd base on the throw home. So instead of having a run scoring and a man at 2nd, we have 1st and 3rd. Guess what happened on the next play? Another single .........which would ve scored the guy at 2nd most likely. The point of this rant, is were also playing some stupid baseball and shouldve scored 2 runs that inning ......
Its the Little things that were getting away from, that become very APPARENT when your "Offense" slumps ...........

FarWestChicago
08-20-2005, 12:43 PM
Well, that is humorous coming from you seeing as you are INSANE and a borderline troll. Did you ever go to What's the Score? Did you check out Homefish's personal Dark Cloud thread? You see how we all laugh at Homefish? Well, that is you. I can assure you that 95% of this board rolls their eyes everytime they see you go off on Crede and talk about unofficial errors. Do you have any idea how absurd that is? "Official" and "unofficial" errors are one thing, but then you take away hits because they didn't come when it mattered to you? You are the Mariotti to Crede's Reinsdorf, and Hawk said this week that Moronotti has a Glen Close like obsession with Reinsy. I guess things have come full circle. I imagine you sitting alone in your basement with Crede's face on your dart board, watching the game and stabbing away at a Crede voodoo doll.:rolling:

This is great writing. Well done. :thumbsup:

:roflmao:

FarWestChicago
08-20-2005, 12:44 PM
Hmmmmmmmmmmm. I basically agree with everything youve said here.Hmmmm, why is it not surprising to see you agreeing with a complete lunatic? :?:

TheOldRoman
08-20-2005, 12:54 PM
That disturbed me as well. WGN whored out the blimp shots.

What's with the outfield grass? There are many discolorations in Roger Bossard's outfield. Very ugly. This is the worst I remember seeing Comiskey park's grass.
Well, the drought really took it's toll on the grass. I don't know if the Sox were allowed to water like regularly, but even if they could, the heat and lack of rain would still hurt the grass.

The biggest reason the grass looks bad is because of the design. Most other teams use a checkerboard pattern or smaller stripes. Those patterns hide imperfections. That is probably the reason the Urinal has a checkerboard pattern, otherwise we would see that hald of the grass is yellow. Bossard's style has always been thick, plain stripes. Those stripes hide nothing.

TheOldRoman
08-20-2005, 12:55 PM
:rolling:

This is great writing. Well done. :thumbsup:

:roflmao:

:redface: Praise from Caesar.