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View Full Version : Is anyone else tired of this?


kittle42
08-19-2005, 01:50 PM
*Every damn time* I get into a discussion of Sox fans v. well, anybody else's fans, the other party in the conversation will *always* rip Sox fans for the stupid Dybas/Ligue incidents. I am so sick of it.

Soxzilla
08-19-2005, 02:07 PM
I don't even bother getting into arguments about the subject, because I know in my heart we are better than them.

TaylorStSox
08-19-2005, 02:14 PM
Arguing baseball with fans of other teams is right up there with religion and politics. A. It doesn't matter. B. You're not going to change anybody's mind.

PaulDrake
08-19-2005, 02:16 PM
What about cub fans attacking some Dodger players and stealing a hat? Or the yahoo who charged Randy Meyers? There are incidents in ball parks everywhere. I'm told that good old Dodger stadium is getting to be an adventure. As far as the incidents at our park, I doubt the Ligues are baseball fans, and Dybas the jerk who tried pathetically to attack the ump was a drunken cub fan according to news reports.

cheeses_h_rice
08-19-2005, 02:24 PM
The Ligue attack will forever be associated with the stereotype of white trash Sox fans forever, so we might as well live with it, unfortunately. In the public's eyes, it doesn't compare to an anonymous Mets fan throwing a battery at a player or a drunk accountant leaping out of the bleachers at Wrigley to try and beat up a Flubs pitcher or a Red Sox fan taking a swipe at Gary Sheffield, or any of the myriad incidents involving poor fan behavior seen at MLB parks over the past 20 years.

It was the ugliest, unprovoked attack on a baseball field in recent memory. To make matters worse, the person attacked was a relatively old man who had done nothing to incite the attackers. To make matters much worse, the attackers were 2 shirtless hooligans, one of whom had a knife in his pocket and sported a stereotypical white trashy assortment of bad tattoos and a quasi-mullet haircut.

It doesn't matter to the general public that William Ligue Jr. "wasn't much of a baseball fan," so I've stopped trying to convince the know-nothings otherwise.

Unfortunately, we'll just have to live with the stain of that attack and hope that nothing else occurs down the line that makes the White Sox fanbase look like garbage.

PatK
08-19-2005, 02:24 PM
The funny thing about those incidents was that Ligue and Dybass were not Sox fans, just people who went to a game.

The Dude
08-19-2005, 02:38 PM
The funny thing about those incidents was that Ligue and Dybass were not Sox fans, just people who went to a game.

Yeah but you cant tell the people that because they already have their minds made up. I argued with a few people last week about how the Cell isnt in a horrible neighborhood as they claim. They also claimed to be Sox fans, but havent been in the city in years...but they basically were telling me that I'm wrong even though I have dual residence in the southside of Chicago and in Dekalb AND go to around 30 games a season. As someone said earlier, people are so hardheaded when it comes to these stereotypes...Wrigleyville is a fun crime free paradise....the Cell is a war zone with no bars.

And also, as someone stated, it does compare with arguing people's stances on religion, politics, etc. because as much as you tell them that it's safe to walk around Bridgeport at night....they will refuse to believe you.

Ligue, I hate you for forever staining the fanbase of the Chicago White Sox!:angry::angry::angry:

kittle42
08-19-2005, 02:42 PM
Maybe you should point these people to last Sunday's Sun-Times article showing the 550% increase in home values in Bridgeport over the last decade.

The Dude
08-19-2005, 03:01 PM
Maybe you should point these people to last Sunday's Sun-Times article showing the 550% increase in home values in Bridgeport over the last decade.

That's just too logical for some of these people. I pulled the crime rate fact out and they just didnt believe me.
As one of my roommate always says to me with regard to these types of neverending arguments..."Forever I walk among the ignorant."

itsnotrequired
08-19-2005, 03:04 PM
Maybe you should point these people to last Sunday's Sun-Times article showing the 550% increase in home values in Bridgeport over the last decade.

A 550% increase isn't shocking when you consider those burned-out shacks were only worth about $10 in the mid-90s.:redneck

Cowhead418
08-19-2005, 03:05 PM
Even if Ligue and Dybas WERE Sox fans (which they weren't), this whole situation is still really really stupid. Why judge an entire fanbase on the actions of TWO F***ING PEOPLE!:angry: Morons, all of them. We all must like to attack other people if two people did it at our ballpark.

kittle42
08-19-2005, 03:14 PM
Even if Ligue and Dybas WERE Sox fans (which they weren't), this whole situation is still really really stupid. Why judge an entire fanbase on the actions of TWO F***ING PEOPLE!:angry: Morons, all of them. We all must like to attack other people if two people did it at our ballpark.

Stereotypes and soundbytes make the world go round. Hell, they sure beat rational thought!

MarySwiss
08-19-2005, 03:20 PM
Oddly enough, I've never had anyone mention those incidents to me. But I am very, very tired of two other things:

1) Whenever someone learns I'm originally from Chicago, they assume I'm a Flubs fan, and

2) When I tell them (loudly and in no uncertain terms) that I'm a Sox fan, they bring up the Black Sox or talk about what a great movie "Eight Men Out" was.

I'm sure that the year after we win the Series, all we'll hear is "Isn't that the first series they've won since they threw one?"

cheeses_h_rice
08-19-2005, 03:36 PM
Maybe you should point these people to last Sunday's Sun-Times article showing the 550% increase in home values in Bridgeport over the last decade.

Doesn't matter to a lot of ignorant North Siders and suburbanites.

US Cellular gets stained by the surrounding low-rise public housing complex to the south of the park bordered by Wentworth, the high rises to the east of the Ryan, and the Chinatown blight to the north. Think about it: most North Siders and suburbanites, when they do come to the park, travel via the Red Line or the Dan Ryan, and all they see besides the ballpark is these remnants of the South Side's ghetto past. They don't travel west along 35th through the neighborhood. They don't stroll down the streets of Bridgeport and notice the new construction or plainspoken quiet charm.

Let's face it: yes, the South Side is improving and becoming more and more livable, but it's still going to take years and some major city-funded projects for the area to have the first-glance appearance of being safe and desirable. Right now the best hope is for the south Loop improvements to stretch further south of 22nd Street and westward, and I don't see that happening for another 4-5 years at least.

TommyJohn
08-19-2005, 03:57 PM
*Every damn time* I get into a discussion of Sox fans v. well, anybody else's fans, the other party in the conversation will *always* rip Sox fans for the stupid Dybas/Ligue incidents. I am so sick of it.

JOIN THE CLUB! You could whip out arguments until you are blue in the face,
nothing will change their minds. The fact that you personally are a lawyer
living on the north side means nothing to them. You could also point out the
other incidents of rotten fan behavior over the years (eg. Cubs-Dodgers, or
Cub fans who trash Wrigley, Yankee fans that trashed Yankee Stadium during
Game 6 of the ALCS, Bartman fans, etc) and it will do absolutely no good.
Those incidents have faded from people's memories. But then again, I am a
hard core cynic who believes that a lot of people are basically rotten.

I agree with the poster who said that it is like arguing religion and politics.
It does no good, you will go around forever. That's why I do not discuss
baseball AT ALL with anyone who is not a good friend. Anybody tries and
I politely but firmly change the subject.

I hate the Black Sox bull as well. It happened long ago, all the principals
are dead, get over it. The White Sox may not have been the Yankees
over the years, but who has been, besides the Yankees? Really, all teams
have had their up and down years. It's not as if they were the
St. Louis Browns, either. They've had good and bad teams, same as
everyone else. What drives me nuts are people who pontificate that
the White Sox and their fans don't "deserve" to see the Sox win because of
1919. One in particular is that arrogant piece of **** Boobus Costas
Sportscasterus. What I wouldn't give for a back-and-forth debate with
that slimewad.

I agree that it truly is a product of the soundbyte society we live in, where
generations reared on the boob tube want quick, snappy answers for every
thing. Cubs haven't won since 1908? Why, it's the goat! Sox haven't won
since 1917? It's the Black Sox cursing you, you peasants! Ligue and Dybas
ran out on the field and committed assault? All Sox fans are trash and
garbage, of course! It is sickening.

thepaulbowski
08-19-2005, 03:57 PM
Let's face it: yes, the South Side is improving and becoming more and more livable, but it's still going to take years and some major city-funded projects for the area to have the first-glance appearance of being safe and desirable. Right now the best hope is for the south Loop improvements to stretch further south of 22nd Street and westward, and I don't see that happening for another 4-5 years at least.

Much has been done recently in Bridgeport. They just finished resurfacing Halsted between 31st & 36th or 37th. While doing this the put new lightposts up and widened the sidewalks. The city did do a job with this. The city has announced plans to turn the old quarry on Halsted & 29th into a park with wetlands, wildlife, etc. New homes are going up all around the park, especially south of it. As soon as they start the townhomes & condos on the east side of the Ryan, people will really start to notice the difference.

cheeses_h_rice
08-19-2005, 04:02 PM
Much has been done recently in Bridgeport. They just finished resurfacing Halsted between 31st & 36th or 37th. While doing this the put new lightposts up and widened the sidewalks. The city did do a job with this. The city has announced plans to turn the old quarry on Halsted & 29th into a park with wetlands, wildlife, etc. New homes are going up all around the park, especially south of it. As soon as they start the townhomes & condos on the east side of the Ryan, people will really start to notice the difference.

Good to hear the developments along Halsted -- I now park east of the Ryan so I haven't seen that area in a year. Which sort of reinforces my point about the 'visuals' that most people going to the park are greeted with; unless the area immediately surrounding the park improves, the park will continue to be seen as being in a "bad neighborhood." Those townhomes that are planned across from IIT on 35th will do much to improve the superficial appearance of the area, just like the condos that sprung up on Division just east of Halsted across from Cabrini-Green.

mr_genius
08-19-2005, 04:10 PM
i've always thought Bridgeport was a nice neighborhood

i guess i got lower standards than most

lol

chitownhawkfan
08-19-2005, 04:13 PM
Doesn't matter to a lot of ignorant North Siders and suburbanites.

US Cellular gets stained by the surrounding low-rise public housing complex to the south of the park bordered by Wentworth, the high rises to the east of the Ryan, and the Chinatown blight to the north. Think about it: most North Siders and suburbanites, when they do come to the park, travel via the Red Line or the Dan Ryan, and all they see besides the ballpark is these remnants of the South Side's ghetto past. They don't travel west along 35th through the neighborhood. They don't stroll down the streets of Bridgeport and notice the new construction or plainspoken quiet charm.

.

I live out in Downers Grove but I moved here from Clearing. I still have family in Clearing and I love the Southside. When I tell people that I am a 23 year old salary man and thinking about moving to Bridgeport rather than say Wicker Park or Lakeview people look at me like I'm crazy. "Dont you know its dangerous!?"

PaulDrake
08-19-2005, 04:15 PM
I expect this trend to continue SW into the McKinley Park neighborhood and maybe Brighton Park eventually.

MarySwiss
08-19-2005, 04:19 PM
JOIN THE CLUB! You could whip out arguments until you are blue in the face,
nothing will change their minds. The fact that you personally are a lawyer
living on the north side means nothing to them. You could also point out the
other incidents of rotten fan behavior over the years (eg. Cubs-Dodgers, or
Cub fans who trash Wrigley, Yankee fans that trashed Yankee Stadium during
Game 6 of the ALCS, Bartman fans, etc) and it will do absolutely no good.
Those incidents have faded from people's memories. But then again, I am a
hard core cynic who believes that a lot of people are basically rotten.

I agree with the poster who said that it is like arguing religion and politics.
It does no good, you will go around forever. That's why I do not discuss
baseball AT ALL with anyone who is not a good friend. Anybody tries and
I politely but firmly change the subject.

I hate the Black Sox bull as well. It happened long ago, all the principals
are dead, get over it. The White Sox may not have been the Yankees
over the years, but who has been, besides the Yankees? Really, all teams
have had their up and down years. It's not as if they were the
St. Louis Browns, either. They've had good and bad teams, same as
everyone else. What drives me nuts are people who pontificate that
the White Sox and their fans don't "deserve" to see the Sox win because of
1919. One in particular is that arrogant piece of **** Boobus Costas
Sportscasterus. What I wouldn't give for a back-and-forth debate with
that slimewad.

I agree that it truly is a product of the soundbyte society we live in, where
generations reared on the boob tube want quick, snappy answers for every
thing. Cubs haven't won since 1908? Why, it's the goat! Sox haven't won
since 1917? It's the Black Sox cursing you, you peasants! Ligue and Dybas
ran out on the field and committed assault? All Sox fans are trash and
garbage, of course! It is sickening.

Tommy, congratulations on what has to be one of the best rants I've ever seen! What makes it special, IMO, is there is so much incontrovertible TRUTH to it.

DumpJerry
08-19-2005, 04:47 PM
Nobody brings up the jerks who ran on the field with me, nor do they bring up the Black Sox or any other negatives. Flub fans, since mid-May, have only told me that the Sox are exciting to watch and thye think we will go all the way.

This week, they have been asking how I am doing with this mini-slide and tell me to hang in there.

Maybe it's my good looks that turns them into kittycats with me.

MarySwiss
08-19-2005, 04:57 PM
Nobody brings up the jerks who ran on the field with me, nor do they bring up the Black Sox or any other negatives. Flub fans, since mid-May, have only told me that the Sox are exciting to watch and thye think we will go all the way.

This week, they have been asking how I am doing with this mini-slide and tell me to hang in there.

Maybe it's my good looks that turns them into kittycats with me.


Or else you're just doing something that scares the hell out of them. If so, what is it? I have a Toons fan friend I'd like to use it on; he's getting much too snotty lately!:rolleyes:

Cowhead418
08-19-2005, 04:58 PM
Nobody brings up the jerks who ran on the field with me, nor do they bring up the Black Sox or any other negatives. Flub fans, since mid-May, have only told me that the Sox are exciting to watch and thye think we will go all the way.

This week, they have been asking how I am doing with this mini-slide and tell me to hang in there.

Maybe it's my good looks that turns them into kittycats with me.

I've noticed that Flub fans are going one way or the other. Some have told me that this recent slide means we are going to be a first-round exit to the playoffs while others have told me that this is just a slump and they will be OK.

DumpJerry
08-19-2005, 05:00 PM
I've noticed that Flub fans are going one way or the other. Some have told me that this recent slide means we are going to be a first-round exit to the playoffs while others have told me that this is just a slump and they will be OK.
I just remembered that there is another groups of Flub fans I run into. They ask me what place the Sox are in and are genuinely surprised when I tell them first. Real baseball fans they are. Really.

maurice
08-19-2005, 05:44 PM
I expect this trend to continue SW into the McKinley Park neighborhood and maybe Brighton Park eventually.

Agreed.

Right now the best hope is for the south Loop improvements to stretch further south of 22nd Street and westward

The current developments in Bridgeport, Bronzeville, Chinatown, and McKinley Park are independent of the South Loop stuff. The South Loop's ability to spread has lots of practical limitations, including I-55, McCormick Place, and the stretch of public housing that starts with the Hilliard Homes and extends southward. There's still plenty of work to do between Cullerton and McCormick Place, but the South Loop probably will hit a virtual wall at that point.

To the West of the Hilliard Homes, Chinatown is doing quite well with the addition of Ping Tom Park on the riverfront and the residential and commercial developments that cover the rest of the old Santa Fe freight yard. The area South of McCormick Place and near Mercy Hospital actually is a nice, quiet residential area with lots of docs and nurses. South of that, Bronzeville already is doing very well. The demolition of Stateway Gardens and the Robert Taylor Homes accellerated the gentrification process. In fact, it's hard to imagine that property values in Bronzeville and Bridgeport could rise any faster than the current rate.

itsnotrequired
08-19-2005, 07:51 PM
South of McCormick Place and near Mercy Hospital actually is a nice, quiet residential area with lots of docs and nurses.

The Mercy Hospital area got another boost just today.

http://www.globest.com/news/352_352/chicago/137463-1.html

santo=dorf
08-19-2005, 10:26 PM
Maybe you should point these people to last Sunday's Sun-Times article showing the 550% increase in home values in Bridgeport over the last decade.
Weirdsidebigot is not happy about this. These people are going to be forced to live with their parents forever.


:rolleyes: