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View Full Version : Pure Speculation on Griffey Part Deux


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Daver
08-17-2005, 06:38 PM
Continued.......

HotelWhiteSox
08-17-2005, 06:52 PM
Reports out of Cincy now say that Griffey wears boxers

VeeckAsInWreck
08-17-2005, 06:55 PM
Reports out of Cincy now say that Griffey wears boxers

Any word on whether he likes to wear White Sox?

balke
08-17-2005, 07:09 PM
If only we would've saved Jimmy Reed to make this deal instead. How could the Reds have said no to a HOFer, for HOFer deal?

fquaye149
08-17-2005, 07:11 PM
Any word on whether he likes to wear White Sox?

Bruce Levine reported that Griffey told him if someone were to give him a pair of White Socks for his birthday he would be outwardly gracious yet inwardly disappointed because he had been hoping for the Ninja Turtles Sewer Cruiser Pizza Shooter action figure.

sthbndsox
08-17-2005, 07:32 PM
Bruce Levine reported that Griffey told him if someone were to give him a pair of White Socks for his birthday he would be outwardly gracious yet inwardly disappointed because he had been hoping for the Ninja Turtles Sewer Cruiser Pizza Shooter action figure.

:roflmao: hahahahahaha

Argalarga
08-17-2005, 07:44 PM
Wouldn't it be awesome if the Sox made the announcement that we got Griffey tonight in front of a sell-out crowd before a game we need to win? Imagine how juiced the team and the crowd would be.

...of course it won't happen. But a Sox fan can dream, right?

RallyBowl
08-17-2005, 07:55 PM
Wouldn't it be awesome if the Sox made the announcement that we got Griffey tonight in front of a sell-out crowd before a game we need to win? Imagine how juiced the team and the crowd would be.

...of course it won't happen. But a Sox fan can dream, right?
We need to win tonight? Or else what, exactly?

soxjim
08-17-2005, 08:05 PM
Sure its a dream. Announce the that Griffey Jr. is a member of the SOX before the SOX vs Yankee game. Hopefully old George will be in attendance.

SomebodyToldMe
08-17-2005, 09:07 PM
We need to win tonight? Or else what, exactly?

I don't know about you, but I don't like seeing the team get swept.

brewcrew/chisox
08-17-2005, 09:45 PM
We need to win tonight? Or else what, exactly?

We always need to win

dividedsk717
08-17-2005, 10:20 PM
We need to win tonight? Or else what, exactly?

Oh, that's right. Games in August at home against division rivals trying to chase you down don't matter.

JackParkman
08-17-2005, 10:53 PM
If only we would've saved Jimmy Reed to make this deal instead. How could the Reds have said no to a HOFer, for HOFer deal?

It's Jason Reed, not Jimmy. Get your facts straight.

DrGiggles
08-18-2005, 12:00 AM
Someone should print some shirts in dedication of Hawk, that say "VOTE GRIFFEY" on the front with a picture of Griffey and on the back "BUT WHERE WOULD WE PLAY HIM?" with a picture of Hawk, and wear them to get Griffey on the Sox!!!! Hawk is a moron.

whitesox_1
08-18-2005, 12:02 AM
i thought it was jeremy reed

HebrewHammer
08-18-2005, 12:10 AM
i thought it was jeremy reed

Welcome to WSI!

LuvSox
08-18-2005, 12:13 AM
Someone should print some shirts in dedication of Hawk, that say "VOTE GRIFFEY" on the front with a picture of Griffey and on the back "BUT WHERE WOULD WE PLAY HIM?" with a picture of Hawk, and where them to get Griffey on the Sox!!!! Hawk is a moron.

Yikes

The Dude
08-18-2005, 12:19 AM
Someone should print some shirts in dedication of Hawk, that say "VOTE GRIFFEY" on the front with a picture of Griffey and on the back "BUT WHERE WOULD WE PLAY HIM?" with a picture of Hawk, and wear them to get Griffey on the Sox!!!! Hawk is a moron.

ahhhhhhh.....no!

As much as I disagree with Hawk on this, i think the Hawk bashers are reaching on this one.

SomebodyToldMe
08-18-2005, 12:22 AM
I wouldn't wear a shirt with Hawk on it. A nice "Yes on #30!" or "Yes on Junior!" politcal-type shirt would be cool.

And I do NOT want to hear that where's he gonna play stuff anymore.

DrGiggles
08-18-2005, 12:22 AM
It's reaching to think that Griffey is better than all of our current outfielders? Are you serious, man? By the way, is Hawk so clueless that he doesn't even realize that Griffey could DH in place of Everett and be the #3 hitter that we desperately need?

SomebodyToldMe
08-18-2005, 12:25 AM
i thought it was jeremy reed

Who?

santo=dorf
08-18-2005, 12:25 AM
:hawk
"Jeter and A-Rod??? Give me Juan and Joe."

:kneeslap:

SomebodyToldMe
08-18-2005, 12:27 AM
:hawk
"Jeter and A-Rod??? Give me Juan and Joe."

:kneeslap:

Did he actually say that?!

Man, Hawk. There IS such a thing as kissing TOO much ass.

DrGiggles
08-18-2005, 12:31 AM
And with Pods out, we could have this lineup...

CF Rowand
2B Iguchi
DH Griffey
1B Konerko
LF Everett
RF Dye
C Pierzynski
3B Crede
SS Uribe

That is 10 times better than the lineups we are throwing out there lately.

santo=dorf
08-18-2005, 12:31 AM
Did he actually say that?!

Man, Hawk. There IS such a thing as kissing TOO much ass.

Somewhere along the lines of it on New York radio.
Hawk likes them for their defensive skills.

Soxzilla
08-18-2005, 12:39 AM
Somewhere along the lines of it on New York radio.
Hawk likes them for their defensive skills.

Because Jeter and ARod are absolutely brutal on defense.

:rolleyes:

DrGiggles, give it a rest.

DrGiggles
08-18-2005, 12:41 AM
You give it a rest man, I'm sick of hearing him saying that and DJ sitting there say "Um, um, yeah you're right hawk." When we all know we need more right now.

DrGiggles
08-18-2005, 12:46 AM
How could anyone defend a guy that is actually saying that we have no room for Griffey in our lineup? Hawk is basically saying that our 3 outfield positions and DH position are held by players that are all better than Griffey.

kittle42
08-18-2005, 12:48 AM
How could anyone defend a guy that is actually saying that we have no room for Griffey in our lineup? Hawk is basically saying that our 3 outfield positions and DH position are held by players that are all better than Griffey.

It's the equivalent of saying we had no place for Frank when he came back. Acquiring Griffey would present the exact same scenario.

My guess? Trying to get the fans to agree with him.

LuvSox
08-18-2005, 12:49 AM
How could anyone defend a guy that is actually saying that we have no room for Griffey in our lineup? Hawk is basically saying that our 3 outfield positions and DH position are held by players that are all better than Griffey.

That's a **** load of money to pay for a guy who is absolutely positively going to get hurt.

**** this argument, I'll believe it when I see it.

Lip Man 1
08-18-2005, 12:52 AM
There's always two sides to a coin and right now perhaps the Reds are thinking this...'Every night the Sox struggle to generate any offense increases our leverage with Griffey. As long as they look bad against anyone who throws a baseball for a living, our price goes up. By next week, we may be able to ask for four prospects.'

Right now it's like 'how bad do you want him, how bad do you need him?' The price of poker is going up.

Lip

SomebodyToldMe
08-18-2005, 12:53 AM
That's a **** load of money to pay for a guy who is absolutely positively going to get hurt.

You're telling me you can't say the same thing about Thomas? C'mon. :rolleyes:

LuvSox
08-18-2005, 12:55 AM
OOOOOh, good one. More from me when I can think straight.....:gulp:

DrGiggles
08-18-2005, 12:56 AM
Who cares about money right now, lets just win. We'll get the extra money when we go all the way. Do we want to worry about paying extra right now or winning the World Series, huh? He'll be healthy, and he'll get us the extra money by filling up the stadium and getting us deeper in the playoffs.

SomebodyToldMe
08-18-2005, 12:56 AM
OOOOOh, good one. More from me when I can think straight.....:gulp:

hahah, Man, the way things have been going, I'll take one of those.
:gulp:

balke
08-18-2005, 12:57 AM
There's always two sides to a coin and right now perhaps the Reds are thinking this...'Every night the Sox struggle to generate any offense increases our leverage with Griffey. As long as they look bad against anyone who throws a baseball for a living, our price goes up. By next week, we may be able to ask for four prospects.'

Right now it's like 'how bad do you want him, how bad do you need him?' The price of poker is going up.

Lip

If the Reds really are looking into new ownership, I think they do want Griffey around. I also think they would be dumb enough to ask for Garcia/Buehrle/or Garland in return. Griffey's contract isn't crippling the Reds either. I think they should sell him so they can free up money to buy pitching in the offseason, but you can't make them do anything. It really sucks, cause I actually can think of a few positions Griffey could play for the Sox.

LuvSox
08-18-2005, 01:06 AM
Who cares about money right now, lets just win. We'll get the extra money when we go all the way. Do we want to worry about paying extra right now or winning the World Series, huh? He'll be healthy, and he'll get us the extra money by filling up the stadium and getting us deeper in the playoffs.

I agree with you, but that is way too easy for us to say. We don't own the team, we don't see the day-to-day operations, we don't have JR's mindset. This is the guy that handed the Flubs Harry Caray. Who knows what is going to happen.

TheOldRoman
08-18-2005, 01:19 AM
Because Jeter and ARod are absolutely brutal on defense.


There, I fixed it for you. You seem to have bought into the NY hype that created the Faux-Glove Jeter won last year. He is not good defensively.

Dan H
08-18-2005, 04:44 AM
I don't even want to speculate on Griffey anymore. He's not here now, and from all indications, won't be joining the Sox. I just don't even want to think about him.

How about this instead? How about anybody leading off except for Timo Perez and Pablo Ozuna? That's something our great field manager can control.

harwar
08-18-2005, 08:38 AM
As far as the Griffey thing goes,i'm wondering what would happen if the White Sox claimed him on waivers.
Maybe this whole "we are keeping Griffey at all costs' is just posturing.
I mean the reds are not known for throwing their money around.
I have a feeling that if that happened the reds would just let him go and the White Sox would be responsible for his entire contract.

Madvora
08-18-2005, 10:02 AM
You're telling me you can't say the same thing about Thomas? C'mon. :rolleyes:
Exactly, you can also use your response to Hawk's "where are we gonna play him?" too.

Adding Griffey is 10x more flexible in a lineup than adding Frank.

Ol' No. 2
08-18-2005, 10:14 AM
There's always two sides to a coin and right now perhaps the Reds are thinking this...'Every night the Sox struggle to generate any offense increases our leverage with Griffey. As long as they look bad against anyone who throws a baseball for a living, our price goes up. By next week, we may be able to ask for four prospects.'

Right now it's like 'how bad do you want him, how bad do you need him?' The price of poker is going up.

LipThat's exactly what it is, except the price is the Reds eating less of Griffey's contract. What Kenny needs more than anything is a credible alternative trade that will flush the Allen and O'Brien out. But there's a hard deadline to this: Aug 31. I'm betting that when the Sox take the field on Sept 1, Ken Griffey Jr. will be among them.

tweek57
08-18-2005, 10:14 AM
How could anyone defend a guy that is actually saying that we have no room for Griffey in our lineup? Hawk is basically saying that our 3 outfield positions and DH position are held by players that are all better than Griffey.
What exactly do you expect Hawk to say during a White Sox broadcast? That Everett sucks and isn't as good as Griffey? That Junior would be a defensive upgrade over Pods? That the addition of a bat like KGJs is getting more and more necessary? No, he's not going to say anything stupid like that, he's the teams announcer and is very close to the players he's not going to go saying stuff like that about the players currently on the team when most likely we're not even going to get Griffey. Once Aug. 31st rolls around and we don't have Griffey, Hawk is going to look a lot better in the players eyes that he backed them. I don't expect him to say that some guy that the team most likely isn't even going to get is better than players already on the team, that would be a bad move on Hawk's part.

samram
08-18-2005, 10:29 AM
That's exactly what it is, except the price is the Reds eating less of Griffey's contract. What Kenny needs more than anything is a credible alternative trade that will flush the Allen and O'Brien out. But there's a hard deadline to this: Aug 31. I'm betting that when the Sox take the field on Sept 1, Ken Griffey Jr. will be among them.

Credible alternative or comparable alternative trade? If Kenny tells the Reds he can get Raul Ibanez, well, I'm not sure how much that will sway Cincy ownership. If he says he can get Mike Sweeney or Todd Helton (I don't remember if he was among those who cleared waivers), I think that would make the Reds rethink their stance.

fquaye149
08-18-2005, 10:30 AM
Because Jeter and ARod are absolutely brutal on defense.

:rolleyes:

DrGiggles, give it a rest.


jeter IS, imo. Spectacular jeteresque catches aside

Flight #24
08-18-2005, 10:36 AM
FWIW, Redszone had this from a guy apparently trying to stir up something with NY

Trade for Junior;
Time for Yanks to go for it
By: Jim Dreher

If the reports I'm hearing are correct, the key to the Yankees winning the AL pennant and possibly more is just waiting to be picked up at the courtesy counter in Cincinnati.

...

It is now clear that Griffey, plagued by injuries since coming home to the Reds in 2000, is back to the player who was on the fastest track possible to Cooperstown - via Seattle.

It is also clear that the Yanks - a now team which by all rights should be dead and buried - have a better-than-decent shot at overtaking the pitching-woeful Red Sox and winning the AL East.

...

If it's all about unseating the Sox (and to a degree, it is), Boss Steinbrenner needs to do whatever it takes to bring Junior to the Bronx.

As for general manager Brian Cashman, the evidence seems to mount by the day that he won't be back, win or lose, so why should he care about the future?

Now is the time.

I'm beginning to lean towards the "take on the whole contract" camp. IMO it's not really all that onerous. But I don't know that I'd do that AND give up Chris Young. What they need is pitching, so I'd do something like Griffey for Diaz, Liotta, Honel.

samram
08-18-2005, 10:44 AM
FWIW, Redszone had this from a guy apparently trying to stir up something with NY



I'm beginning to lean towards the "take on the whole contract" camp. IMO it's not really all that onerous. But I don't know that I'd do that AND give up Chris Young. What they need is pitching, so I'd do something like Griffey for Diaz, Liotta, Honel.

Well, I don't think the contract is that burdensome either, but I would hope KW doesn't jump to the point of swallowing all of it based on some columnist's opinion (I don't think you're saying that either). There's really no evidence the Yankees are interested, is there? It's pretty apparent to me they're watching their finances pretty closely this year.

Flight #24
08-18-2005, 10:54 AM
Well, I don't think the contract is that burdensome either, but I would hope KW doesn't jump to the point of swallowing all of it based on some columnist's opinion (I don't think you're saying that either). There's really no evidence the Yankees are interested, is there? It's pretty apparent to me they're watching their finances pretty closely this year.

No, my thought is that it just makes too much sense for both sides, and that the $4mil/yr (supposedly the amount the Reds had agreed to send over in the first deal) shouldn't be a dealbreaker, especially if swallowing that lets us keep Young. I also don't think the Yanks are really interested (esp not in taking the whole contract), but I do think that they're the one team that can change their mind in a heartbeat if they're close to the postseason.

The real fear is that the Reds are saying "I know we had a deal initially, but now we need Young, another top guy, AND you take the whole contract". Normally I'd say that's just posturing, but this Reds FO seems to possibly be dumb enough to actually mean it.

Goose
08-18-2005, 10:55 AM
FWIW, Redszone had this from a guy apparently trying to stir up something with NY



I'm beginning to lean towards the "take on the whole contract" camp. IMO it's not really all that onerous. But I don't know that I'd do that AND give up Chris Young. What they need is pitching, so I'd do something like Griffey for Diaz, Liotta, Honel.

I am not opposed to taking on his entire contract, but in no way should KW ALSO include 3 prospects. Taking on the whole financial responsibility (and therefore all the risk associated with it, i.e., losing KG to injury) would command only 1 mid-level prospect, IMO.

Unregistered
08-18-2005, 11:11 AM
FWIW, Redszone had this from a guy apparently trying to stir up something with NY

Trade for Junior;
Time for Yanks to go for it
By: Jim Dreher

If the reports I'm hearing are correct, the key to the Yankees winning the AL pennant and possibly more is just waiting to be picked up at the courtesy counter in Cincinnati.

...

It is now clear that Griffey, plagued by injuries since coming home to the Reds in 2000, is back to the player who was on the fastest track possible to Cooperstown - via Seattle.

It is also clear that the Yanks - a now team which by all rights should be dead and buried - have a better-than-decent shot at overtaking the pitching-woeful Red Sox and winning the AL East.

...

If it's all about unseating the Sox (and to a degree, it is), Boss Steinbrenner needs to do whatever it takes to bring Junior to the Bronx.

As for general manager Brian Cashman, the evidence seems to mount by the day that he won't be back, win or lose, so why should he care about the future?

Now is the time.
Anyone who has been paying attention to the Yankees knows that their problem IS NOT offense. They need pitching. And then they need more pitching.

Nice try, Jim.
:rolleyes:

Paulwny
08-18-2005, 11:36 AM
Anyone who has been paying attention to the Yankees knows that their problem IS NOT offense. They need pitching. And then they need more pitching.

Nice try, Jim.
:rolleyes:

Agree, the yanks need pitching however, they also need someone who can patrol cf. With Williams not being offered a contract Griffey's salary is quite doable for King George for this year and years to come.

tweek57
08-18-2005, 11:39 AM
Agree, the yanks need pitching however, they also need someone who can patrol cf. With Williams not being offered a contract Griffey's salary is quite doable for King George for this year and years to come.
Not with salary inflation for the rest of that team. Arod, Jeter, Giambi among others will all be getting large raises next year on their back loaded contracts. Jaque Jones signing in the offseason is much more realistic than Griffey.

TheOldRoman
08-18-2005, 11:42 AM
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8990437/
I found this article from MSNBC. It is a really good article, except for one part

Just imagine: Ken Griffey Jr., energized by playing in meaningful games for the first time in half a decade, powers the White Sox to the World Series, where they break the Black Sox curse and win their first championship since 1917.
:angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:

Anyway, it is interesting that Junior has a career .305 hitter in the playoffs. I have heard over and over again how he isn't clutch and sucked in the playoffs.

Jjav829
08-18-2005, 11:47 AM
No, my thought is that it just makes too much sense for both sides, and that the $4mil/yr (supposedly the amount the Reds had agreed to send over in the first deal) shouldn't be a dealbreaker, especially if swallowing that lets us keep Young. I also don't think the Yanks are really interested (esp not in taking the whole contract), but I do think that they're the one team that can change their mind in a heartbeat if they're close to the postseason.

The real fear is that the Reds are saying "I know we had a deal initially, but now we need Young, another top guy, AND you take the whole contract". Normally I'd say that's just posturing, but this Reds FO seems to possibly be dumb enough to actually mean it.

I don't think it's that dumb for the Reds to say that. Look at it from their viewpoint. They don't need to trade Griffey. He's finally having a year like they had hoped for when they made the trade with Seattle. The fans are probably fully behind him now and it would cause some hard feelings to see Griffey go right when he puts up the year they hoped for. Does it make sense for the Reds to trade Griffey? Of course. They could free up some money to spend on pitching and acquire a good prospect or two. The Sox offer before the non-waiver deadline seemed to be a good one. But Lindner rejected it, even though it was fair.

It's clear right now that the Reds, not the Sox, are driving these talks. They have full control of what happens. It's not like Griffey has asked out and they don't necessarily have to trade him now. The Reds can keep Griffey around and perhaps explore trades again in the offseason. By then it will be too late for Griffey to make an impact on the Sox for the 05 season. So if the Sox want him now, they're gonna have to go all in. They need to make more than a "fair" offer. The Sox are going to have to make the Reds and Carl Lindner an offer they can't refuse. That may very well mean taking on all of Griffey's remaining contract. If the Reds can clear all of that money, it makes a deal look much better than just clearing a majority of it. The Sox are also going to have to kick in a top prospect or two to get a deal done.

I know everyone here - as well as KW and the Sox FO - wants the perfect deal. We all want the Reds to pay some of Griffey's remaining salary and in return give them lesser prospects. But it's clear that isn't going to happen. To get this deal done, we're going to have to overpay. The perfect deal seems impossible at this point.

Flight #24
08-18-2005, 11:54 AM
I don't think it's that dumb for the Reds to say that. Look at it from their viewpoint. They don't need to trade Griffey. He's finally having a year like they had hoped for when they made the trade with Seattle. The fans are probably fully behind him now and it would cause some hard feelings to see Griffey go right when he puts up the year they hoped for. Does it make sense for the Reds to trade Griffey? Of course. They could free up some money to spend on pitching and acquire a good prospect or two. The Sox offer before the non-waiver deadline seemed to be a good one. But Lindner rejected it, even though it was fair.

It's clear right now that the Reds, not the Sox, are driving these talks. They have full control of what happens. It's not like Griffey has asked out and they don't necessarily have to trade him now. The Reds can keep Griffey around and perhaps explore trades again in the offseason. By then it will be too late for Griffey to make an impact on the Sox for the 05 season. So if the Sox want him now, they're gonna have to go all in. They need to make more than a "fair" offer. The Sox are going to have to make the Reds and Carl Lindner an offer they can't refuse. That may very well mean taking on all of Griffey's remaining contract. If the Reds can clear all of that money, it makes a deal look much better than just clearing a majority of it. The Sox are also going to have to kick in a top prospect or two to get a deal done.

I know everyone here - as well as KW and the Sox FO - wants the perfect deal. We all want the Reds to pay some of Griffey's remaining salary and in return give them lesser prospects. But it's clear that isn't going to happen. To get this deal done, we're going to have to overpay. The perfect deal seems impossible at this point.

Here's where I disagree with you: Yes, Griffey's finally performing as promised, but looking at his last 5 years, this is the first time he's gone aover 350ABs. That says that while he's got great value for this year, it's highly likely that he'll be a $6mil paperweight in the next year or 2 (plus $6m deferred). If they keep him, his value declines to near zero the instant that happens. Based on that, I'm not so sure that his trade value increases in the offseason. Right now the Sox can say "He just has to stay healthy for 2 months, and we can DH him some or all of the time to help that". A team taking him on in the offseason will likely want him to play the field a reasonable portion of the time for a full season, significantly increasing the chance of injury.

I'd think based on their roster makeup that they'd be more interested in pitching prospects. I might go as far as to say "OK, Gio+lesser prospects and we eat the whole contract", but I think I'd be concerned at something like Gio+Young based on Griffey's injury risk.

Of course, anything is worth it if you win.

Paulwny
08-18-2005, 11:55 AM
Not with salary inflation for the rest of that team. Arod, Jeter, Giambi among others will all be getting large raises next year on their back loaded contracts. Jaque Jones signing in the offseason is much more realistic than Griffey.

Other than George and his bean counters no one knows how much money is available for salaries. With a payroll ~ $200mil the yanks and George would be the laughing stock of baseball if they don't make the play-offs. George's ego is too big .
Of course let's start another speculation, 3 way trade, with the sox sending a starter to NY and Griffey coming to the sox and the reds getting some $$$ relief and a few minor leagures from both teams. Cashman's job is on the line the yanks won't sit still.

Frater Perdurabo
08-18-2005, 12:02 PM
I know my opinion counts for squat, but put me down as being open to the Sox picking up the full remainder of Griffey's contract (except for the deferred money he's still owed from the years he played in Cincinnati, of course).

The more I see the Sox offense struggle, the more it's painfully obvious they need a stud LHB to hit third. Defensively, until Pods returns, he can start in left. When Pods gets back, Junior can back up all the other OFs (subbing for each once weekly), and start the rest of the games as DH.

mdep524
08-18-2005, 12:03 PM
The real fear is that the Reds are saying "I know we had a deal initially, but now we need Young, another top guy, AND you take the whole contract". Normally I'd say that's just posturing, but this Reds FO seems to possibly be dumb enough to actually mean it. Doesn't it seem completely backwards that the Sox should reward the Reds for their stupidity? It's like "If you were totally rational and intelligent, we'd know you were posturing and we wouldn't give in to your demands. But since you're so dumb, we have no choice but to raise our offer because you're too short-sighted and stubborn to see things differently/correctly."

Flight #24
08-18-2005, 12:05 PM
Doesn't it seem completely backwards that the Sox should reward the Reds for their stupidity? It's like "If you were totally rational and intelligent, we'd know you were posturing and we wouldn't give in to your demands. But since you're so dumb, we have no choice but to raise our offer because you're too short-sighted and stubborn to see things differently/correctly."

Sometimes even stupidity is rewarded.

Jjav829
08-18-2005, 12:11 PM
Doesn't it seem completely backwards that the Sox should reward the Reds for their stupidity? It's like "If you were totally rational and intelligent, we'd know you were posturing and we wouldn't give in to your demands. But since you're so dumb, we have no choice but to raise our offer because you're too short-sighted and stubborn to see things differently/correctly."

But it's not necessarily stupidity. We're Sox fans looking at this saying the Reds should trade Griffey. But guess what the Reds fans are saying on their board. They're saying that if the Reds trade Griffey, they need get a top pitching prospect like McCarthy and/or have the team acquiring Griffey take on his whole salary. It's all about perspective. From Sox fans perspective of wanting Griffey, we think the Reds should trade him. But of course we think the Reds should trade him. That's because we want him. The Reds aren't looking to do any favors for the Sox. Unless the deal is one that the Reds can't pass up, they could just hold on to Griffey. It's up to the Sox to convince the Reds that they should make a deal.

samram
08-18-2005, 12:17 PM
But it's not necessarily stupidity. We're Sox fans looking at this saying the Reds should trade Griffey. But guess what the Reds fans are saying on their board. They're saying that if the Reds trade Griffey, they need get a top pitching prospect like McCarthy and/or have the team acquiring Griffey take on his whole salary. It's all about perspective. From Sox fans perspective of wanting Griffey, we think the Reds should trade him. But of course we think the Reds should trade him. That's because we want him. The Reds aren't looking to do any favors for the Sox. Unless the deal is one that the Reds can't pass up, they could just hold on to Griffey. It's up to the Sox to convince the Reds that they should make a deal.

This is correct. The Reds have the Sox in a position in which the Sox are negotiating against themselves. The Sox can call up everyday and make a better offer, and the Reds can just say no until the Sox stop calling, then call back and say they'll take the offer from two days ago, and be indifferent as to whether the Sox are still open to that deal.

Furthermore, Griffey's future value is irrelevant since the Reds know the Sox want him for this season. Therefore, Griffey's trade value is measured by the increase in chances for a Sox World Series win with JR on the roster by 8/31, not by what he can do from now until 2008 or whenever his contract is up.

My question is "Where is he gonna play?"

Paulwny
08-18-2005, 12:18 PM
But it's not necessarily stupidity. We're Sox fans looking at this saying the Reds should trade Griffey. But guess what the Reds fans are saying on their board. They're saying that if the Reds trade Griffey, they need get a top pitching prospect like McCarthy and/or have the team acquiring Griffey take on his whole salary. It's all about perspective. From Sox fans perspective of wanting Griffey, we think the Reds should trade him. But of course we think the Reds should trade him. That's because we want him. The Reds aren't looking to do any favors for the Sox. Unless the deal is one that the Reds can't pass up, they could just hold on to Griffey. It's up to the Sox to convince the Reds that they should make a deal.

Exactly, we need him, but the reds can still live with him. It's up to the sox to make an offer they can't refuse.

balke
08-18-2005, 12:22 PM
I don't see what the big deal is in picking up his entire contract. If we do that, and don't lose any prospects.... that's a great deal. Sox could still deal re-deal him in later seasons to a contender or something.

This isn't going to be like the Larry Walker deal, where the Reds are going to pick up the majority of his contract just to get him out of town with a chance to win. Let's just buy Griff and get a championship already.

Flight #24
08-18-2005, 12:28 PM
But it's not necessarily stupidity. We're Sox fans looking at this saying the Reds should trade Griffey. But guess what the Reds fans are saying on their board. They're saying that if the Reds trade Griffey, they need get a top pitching prospect like McCarthy and/or have the team acquiring Griffey take on his whole salary. It's all about perspective. From Sox fans perspective of wanting Griffey, we think the Reds should trade him. But of course we think the Reds should trade him. That's because we want him. The Reds aren't looking to do any favors for the Sox. Unless the deal is one that the Reds can't pass up, they could just hold on to Griffey. It's up to the Sox to convince the Reds that they should make a deal.

Reds fans may be saying that now, but I can guarantee you that this time last year they would have taken Jon Adkins for him and sent some cash along with. I can also guarantee that if next May he goes down with another injury, they'll be cursing not trading him for something.

That's the reason why the Reds should be trying to trade him: he's an enormous lottery ticket. If he stays healthy, sure, he's probably their best player. If he goes down he's worthless. And he's been down 4 of the last 5 years including this one.

Now for the Sox, the risk is a lot less because as long as he lasts through the playoffs, they got most of the value they were hoping for.

That's why I think the "right" deal is either a top prospect for Griffey+cash (basically the rumored deal killed by Lindner), or mid-tier prospects and we eat the whole deal. To me it would be overpaying, but probably worth it to do either Gio or Sweeney (who appears to be behind Young at this point)and eat the whole contract.

mdep524
08-18-2005, 12:43 PM
But it's not necessarily stupidity. We're Sox fans looking at this saying the Reds should trade Griffey. But guess what the Reds fans are saying on their board. They're saying that if the Reds trade Griffey, they need get a top pitching prospect like McCarthy and/or have the team acquiring Griffey take on his whole salary. It's all about perspective. From Sox fans perspective of wanting Griffey, we think the Reds should trade him. But of course we think the Reds should trade him. That's because we want him. The Reds aren't looking to do any favors for the Sox. Unless the deal is one that the Reds can't pass up, they could just hold on to Griffey. It's up to the Sox to convince the Reds that they should make a deal. Oh, you're definitely right about that from Reds' fans perspective. But its the incompetency of Reds' ownership that is so frustrating.

I obviously can't speak for all Reds fans, but I do know a handful and I've read the Redszone board recently. The fans I know personally range from feeling indifferent about Griffey to actively disliking his presence on the Reds. They are, like us, more concerned with winning and intelligent payroll allocation. The posts from Redszone seem to back this up. Most of the fans seemed to be happy about the proposed deadline deal, and upset that it was nixed.

Reds ownership, on the other hand, has their head firmly up their behind and has no sense of reality.

Flight #24
08-18-2005, 01:02 PM
OK, Griffey just homered again, which I'm sure is not helping matters at all.

Just get it done.

Ol' No. 2
08-18-2005, 01:10 PM
Reds fans may be saying that now, but I can guarantee you that this time last year they would have taken Jon Adkins for him and sent some cash along with. I can also guarantee that if next May he goes down with another injury, they'll be cursing not trading him for something.

That's the reason why the Reds should be trying to trade him: he's an enormous lottery ticket. If he stays healthy, sure, he's probably their best player. If he goes down he's worthless. And he's been down 4 of the last 5 years including this one.

Now for the Sox, the risk is a lot less because as long as he lasts through the playoffs, they got most of the value they were hoping for.

That's why I think the "right" deal is either a top prospect for Griffey+cash (basically the rumored deal killed by Lindner), or mid-tier prospects and we eat the whole deal. To me it would be overpaying, but probably worth it to do either Gio or Sweeney (who appears to be behind Young at this point)and eat the whole contract.But even if he stays healthy, he's still the best player on a bad team. Realistically, the Reds next year might aspire to finish above .500 and have an outside shot at a WC IF they can do something about their pitching. That's it. Maybe by 2007 they might be a serious contender, but by then, Griffey will be 37. How much help is he going to provide then? They still have enough holes that they'd be better off trading Griffey for a couple of prospects and using the money saved on improving the NL's second worst pitching staff.

IMO, this is strictly about minimizing the amount of cash the Reds have to send along. With the club for sale, sending large amounts of cash reduces the franchise value. I'm sure if KW offered them a couple of prospects and ate all of Griffey's contract the deal would be done in an instant. But at the same time, every dollar tied up getting Griffey is a dollar less that he has to improve the team in the future, so Kenny doesn't want to overpay any more than necessary. I have a feeling that as the Aug 31 deadline nears the Reds are going to become more reasonable as the prospect of getting stuck with Griffey becomes more immediate.

balke
08-18-2005, 01:28 PM
Griff just hit a 2-run bomb for #29, and he is quickly approaching the .300 mark.

CHIsoxNation
08-18-2005, 01:43 PM
Griff just hit a 2-run bomb for #29, and he is quickly approaching the .300 mark.

Oh man, the Reds are going to have a field day with us. They are just laughing knowing how well Griffey is doing and how much we need him in our lineup. This sucks.

mdep524
08-18-2005, 02:14 PM
I've been thinking about this for a few days, let's see what you guys think: Has KW's maverick reputation hurt him during trade negotiations this summer? I don't know what other GMs think of KW, but I would imagine they might see him as impetuous, emotional, aggressive and a little obsessive. They hear him constantly say "1917" and "excuse me if I don't care about losing a few prospects" and "If the question is 'Would I do something stupid?' the answer is... maybe." The saw him trade 3 good prospects for Todd Ritchie, the team's 1st round pick (and others) for Roby Alomar, and the organization's top ranked prospect and starting catcher for Freddie.

Now with the Sox looking at their clearest chance for a magical championship in decades, do other GMs think they can just hold out and eventually rob KW blind? Because if so they have to get a clue. We here at WSI obviously all know what a great GM KW has become. I admit I wasn't thoroughly convinced he was the man up until this past offseason. But he has clearly come into his own as an outstanding GM.

But then you hear ludicrious trade proposals from other GMs: Brandon McCarthy for Ron Villone?? Mark Buehrle and Jon Garland for Billy Wagner?? Out entire farm system for Danys Baez?? And now of course all this Griffey talk.

Do you guys think KW's old reputation factors into any of this?

TaylorStSox
08-18-2005, 02:33 PM
Jesus. Reading this thread is like living in fantasy land. Everyone is convincing themselves of all these storylines that probably don't exist. This is a strange thread.

DickAllen72
08-18-2005, 07:08 PM
The Reds have the Sox in a position in which the Sox are negotiating against themselves. The Sox can call up everyday and make a better offer, and the Reds can just say no until the Sox stop calling, then call back and say they'll take the offer from two days ago, and be indifferent as to whether the Sox are still open to that deal.


If that's the case, the Sox can easily force the Red's hand by simply claiming Griffey off waivers. Then the Reds would have three days to accept the Sox trade offer, or pull him off waivers and be "stuck" with him for the rest of the season. Now if the Reds really don't have any desire to move Griffey as they keep stating, thy'll just pull him off waivers and nothing is lost. At least the Sox would know for sure that they never had a chance at him and at least no one else can get him either.

If the Reds really do want to unload Griffey, they'll have to accept what the Sox have offered.

The only "risk" to the Sox is the Reds can let the Sox take Griffey and his entire contract. But as others in this thread have already suggested, that may not necessarily be such a bad thing for the Sox. They'd lose no prospects and add Griffey. If JR is serious about pulling out all stops to win this year, he would OK taking on the money.

ilsox7
08-18-2005, 07:12 PM
If that's the case, the Sox can easily force the Red's hand by simply claiming Griffey off waivers. Then the Reds would have three days to accept the Sox trade offer, or pull him off waivers and be "stuck" with him for the rest of the season. Now if the Reds really don't have any desire to move Griffey as they keep stating, thy'll just pull him off waivers and nothing is lost. At least the Sox would know for sure that they never had a chance at him and at least no one else can get him either.

If the Reds really do want to unload Griffey, they'll have to accept what the Sox have offered.

The only "risk" to the Sox is the Reds can let the Sox take Griffey and his entire contract. But as others in this thread have already suggested, that may not necessarily be such a bad thing for the Sox. They'd lose no prospects and add Griffey. If JR is serious about pulling out all stops to win this year, he would OK taking on the money.

Griffey has already cleared waivers. No one can claim him now.

HotelWhiteSox
08-18-2005, 07:18 PM
Let's just get Lowell, he'd be cheaper

DickAllen72
08-18-2005, 07:32 PM
Griffey has already cleared waivers. No one can claim him now.

I read on another board that even though he has cleared waivers, any team can still put a claim in for him until August 31st. Supposedly he is now free to be traded because he has cleared waivers, but if someone wants to claim him before he is traded they still can do so. I didn't think that was the case and I don't know if it's true or not, but that's what someone wrote.

Anyway, if it's not true and it's too late to claim him, then the Sox blew their opportunity to do what I suggested. That tells me that no way was JR willing to take on that contract, so most likely Griffey isn't coming here. That's probably why Hawk's been repeating his "Where's he gonna play?" mantra.

Ol' No. 2
08-18-2005, 08:45 PM
I read on another board that even though he has cleared waivers, any team can still put a claim in for him until August 31st. Supposedly he is now free to be traded because he has cleared waivers, but if someone wants to claim him before he is traded they still can do so. I didn't think that was the case and I don't know if it's true or not, but that's what someone wrote.

Anyway, if it's not true and it's too late to claim him, then the Sox blew their opportunity to do what I suggested. That tells me that no way was JR willing to take on that contract, so most likely Griffey isn't coming here. That's probably why Hawk's been repeating his "Where's he gonna play?" mantra.You can't put in a claim after the waiver period is over. But you're right in that it would have been a way to force the Reds' hand. OTOH, forcing their hand might not be what you want to do. If they pull him back, you CAN'T make a deal later. KW may be biding his time, expecting the Reds to become more reasonable as Aug 31 approaches.

Domeshot17
08-18-2005, 11:40 PM
I just have the sinking feeling that this is July all over again. Sox Fans who crave the playoffs and a championship and are non homerish enough to know we have holes wait for KW to make the deal to save the season, and by save the season I mean get us into the ALCS with a chance to win the American League.

I mean, we just got torn up by the freakin Twins at our own game. They ran the bases they made the defensive gems and they constantly put the pressure on us. It was sickening last night to watch. The seats are buzzed with Hype over a trade, and even if we get Eddie, It's hard to use a closer when you can't find ways to get the lead.

I mean, even if its not Griffey, and its someone like Ibanez or Cattalanotto or some other Lefty that can Mash Righties, or even a Righty that hits Righties hard ( Sweeney ), We need a jump start, because our Fire Starter is on the DL, And we seem to have no one else able to step up.

Norberto7
08-19-2005, 12:26 AM
Obviously, we need a left handed bat. So, would we want someone with these types of numbers? .359 avg, .906 OBS, and only 8 strikeouts all year? I would say so. So, why not trade for....


Jason Marquis!


Not only can he DH, he can come in and throw some long relief and make a few spot starts! How often do you get a 4.22 ERA out of your DH? Make the move, Kenny!

Paulwny
08-20-2005, 11:02 AM
The longer the sox offense sputters the greater the cost for Griffey.

Letmehearya
08-20-2005, 11:23 AM
One thing I haven't bought is the argument the soon-to-be new Reds ownership group wants Griffey. The folks in Cincy won't care if Griffey's traded as long as they think it'll improve the Reds' chances to contend soon. Frankly, getting rid of Griffey's contract makes the Reds more attractive to purchase and cheaper. It's the current ownership of the Reds [I believe] who may be using Junior's contract to bolster the net worth of the club. Just my opinion.

ChiSoxlukes
08-20-2005, 12:39 PM
The Reds are so dumb if they don't make a deal. Griffey is having a comeback year and they need to get rid of him now before he gets injured or his production goes down. I think they will get the most for him right now. The Sox need to be that ballclub to take him off their hands and win a world series. :smile:

Flight #24
08-20-2005, 01:00 PM
One thing I haven't bought is the argument the soon-to-be new Reds ownership group wants Griffey. The folks in Cincy won't care if Griffey's traded as long as they think it'll improve the Reds' chances to contend soon. Frankly, getting rid of Griffey's contract makes the Reds more attractive to purchase and cheaper. It's the current ownership of the Reds [I believe] who may be using Junior's contract to bolster the net worth of the club. Just my opinion.

FWIW, Dave Baum on the Snore this AM (at least I think that's who it was) said that the Reds won't trade Griffey because new ownership wants a resurgent Griffey as the centerpiece to their franchise next year. I'm not sure that's a smart decision on their part, but I can buy that they think that's the best thing to do.

mdep524
08-20-2005, 01:02 PM
The Reds are so dumb if they don't make a deal. Griffey is having a comeback year and they need to get rid of him now before he gets injured or his production goes down.
The Sox need to be that ballclub to take him off their handsLOL. I think the Sox should trade for Griffey too, but it's funny how we are trying to make ourselves look like suckers to encourage the Reds to deal.

Griffey's gonna get hurt!! He's old!! He's expensive!! He's gonna suck again!!!
...By the way, we'll take him off your hands for you. :smile:

Flight #24
08-20-2005, 01:22 PM
LOL. I think the Sox should trade for Griffey too, but it's funny how we are trying to make ourselves look like suckers to encourage the Reds to deal.

Griffey's gonna get hurt!! He's old!! He's expensive!! He's gonna suck again!!!
...By the way, we'll take him off your hands for you. :smile:

The argument needs to be: "He's a good bet to last out this year, which is what we need. But he's also a good bet to get hurt in the future and be worthless. Plus, you've got 3 other OFs and a need at SP, so doing this deal gets you the financial flexibility to make a spalsh with FA pitching. Plus it gives you a very good, up and coming star OF who'll be ready in 1-2 years in the event one of your other 3 OFs flops.

(this assumes the deal is something like Young+lesser prospects for Griffey+ no cash).

NSSoxFan
08-20-2005, 02:41 PM
Attn WSI'ers:

Ken Griffey Jr. is not coming to the White Sox. Because of this, there is zero reason for this thread to still be alive. Do it for your own sanity.

Jjav829
08-21-2005, 12:55 PM
The Chicago White Sox have cooled their pursuit of Griffey, mainly because the Reds have stopped taking their calls. The next time chatty Sox general manager Ken Williams phones regarding Junior, he should say he's Brian Cashman.

Link (http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050819/COL03/508190451/1082/SPT)

Damnit. :whiner: :angry:

mdep524
08-21-2005, 01:10 PM
Link (http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050819/COL03/508190451/1082/SPT)

Damnit. :whiner: :angry: Good article. It makes so much sense, but I guess the Reds aren't budging. Reds fans are getting pretty greedy as well, check out this thread from Redszone: http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39431

Some of them think the Sox slump entitles them to Anderson and McCarthy, with the Sox picking up Griffey's entire contract! :o:

soltrain21
08-21-2005, 01:55 PM
The Reds fans are just as stupid as the management. No wonder they are going turning into such a crap organization...they are all insane.

soxwon
08-21-2005, 02:06 PM
Better make some deal then.

Does anyone expect the Sox to start KICKIN ass again?

If you do your foolish, one or two wins possible , but kick butt
no chance, unless a major player ARRIVES.

greenpeach
08-21-2005, 02:07 PM
The Reds fans are just as stupid as the management. No wonder they are going turning into such a crap organization...they are all insane.

Where have you gone Sparky Anderson ?

Chisox003
08-21-2005, 02:11 PM
Better make some deal then.

Does anyone expect the Sox to start KICKIN ass again?

If you do your foolish, one or two wins possible , but kick butt
no chance, unless a major player ARRIVES.

Why do you keep posting **** like this? Take your dark cloud ass and go troll another message board, nobody wants to read that here

whitesoxfan
08-21-2005, 02:13 PM
Good article. It makes so much sense, but I guess the Reds aren't budging. Reds fans are getting pretty greedy as well, check out this thread from Redszone: http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39431

Some of them think the Sox slump entitles them to Anderson and McCarthy, with the Sox picking up Griffey's entire contract! :o:

for the entire contract? Hell no. But I would trade McCarthy and Anderson for Griffey with the Reds taking on at least half the contract.

TheOldRoman
08-21-2005, 02:47 PM
Solution to all our problems...

KW needs to get on the phone with Big Frank and ask him for some help. Frank and Junior have always been really good friends. Frank has to talk to Griffey and convince him that a)This is the best city in the world; b)Griffey will OWN this city like Jordan did if he brings us a title; c)We have a great shot at a championship, and this is Griffey's last chance to win a title; and d)GRIFFEY MUST DEMAND A TRADE. Reports came out last week that Linder said he would trade Griffey to make him happy if he really wanted to leave to win a championship. Griffey, being the class act he is, wants to come here to win, but he doesn't want to throw a big stink about it. Griffey has publicly remarked several times that he wasn't pleased with the direction the Reds are going. If he went to the owner and told him he wanted out badly, I think it would get done.

soxwon
08-21-2005, 03:45 PM
Why do you keep posting **** like this? Take your dark cloud ass and go troll another message board, nobody wants to read that here


yes sir mister 906, ill stop it now.

santo=dorf
08-21-2005, 03:58 PM
yes sir mister 906, ill stop it now.

"You are not your post total."-----Daver

FarWestChicago
08-21-2005, 04:02 PM
"You are not your post total."-----DaverAnd if there was ever a case of quantity not equaling quality, this is it! :redneck

Domeshot17
08-21-2005, 08:49 PM
Was just lookin around the Reds board, and We really get no respect whatsoever. EVERYONE believes this team is not a serious contender. They really Expect B-Mac Anderson and Young for Griffey AND the entire salary ontop of things. Atleast some of them (1) acknowledge the pitching and defense is very good and (2) Reds Ownership should move the salary while it can. The post that made me laugh the most was one saying Griffey would only accept a trade to a contender, and the White Sox were not contenders, however, that have a nice long thread on why the Indians are a serious threat haha.

I always figured it was like Chicago, WHITE SOX OR CUBS, REDS OR INDIANS, but apparently in Ohio, its all about the bandwagon.

whitesoxfan
08-21-2005, 09:58 PM
Was just lookin around the Reds board, and We really get no respect whatsoever. EVERYONE believes this team is not a serious contender. They really Expect B-Mac Anderson and Young for Griffey AND the entire salary ontop of things. Atleast some of them (1) acknowledge the pitching and defense is very good and (2) Reds Ownership should move the salary while it can. The post that made me laugh the most was one saying Griffey would only accept a trade to a contender, and the White Sox were not contenders, however, that have a nice long thread on why the Indians are a serious threat haha.

I always figured it was like Chicago, WHITE SOX OR CUBS, REDS OR INDIANS, but apparently in Ohio, its all about the bandwagon.

screw them if they think were not contenders. Were only 29 games above .500, it must be luck.

DaleJRFan
08-21-2005, 09:58 PM
...post that made me laugh the most was one saying Griffey would only accept a trade to a contender, and the White Sox were not contenders, however, that have a nice long thread on why the Indians are a serious threat haha.

Under the Radar, Under the Radar...

Flight #24
08-21-2005, 10:42 PM
FWIW, the latest from a guy on the Reds board (the one who said the Reds owner would be willing to deal Griffey "if he said he wanted out". I asked him a)what the Reds wanted and b)if the new owners might actually want to keep Griffey.

Sorry it's taken me a couple days to get back with you. I could buy what you said about new Reds ownership wanting to keep Griffey as a centerpiece. It's being reported that there will be a considerable more amount of money going into the Reds' payroll when new ownership takes place, and I think everyone is excited about Griffey's comeback player of the year status. This also could be talk to drive up his price even more!

Truth be told, I personally think the Reds are better off dealing him, and that's not as a Reds fan just wanting to get rid of him. I think he'd be of considerable help to the White Sox offense, as struggling as it is right now. If there's truth to the new ownership pumping more money into the team, I guess saving his payroll won't be such a big deal, but nothing is confirmed about new owners yet anyway. I would err on the side of caution, and any help this team can get with payroll, it should. Unless they could somehow pawn off Eric Milton on a team like the Giants (as bad as they are, still -technically- in the NL West race if not by much, and they have a nice pitchers park, and the love for veteran players), I would think Griffey is their best bet to move, because he's in way more demand than a Milton or Casey at this point.

The way Griffey is playing now, I wouldn't be shocked if the Reds were asking for top notch prospects in addition to completely being alleviated of the contract. A lot of this has to do with the ownership situation. If the Reds are very insistent on getting rid of the money and getting top-of-the-line prospects back, you could look at it as a complete, fresh start over for new ownership and front office of the team, with the youthful nucleus on the team fully in place. But on the other hand, I could also see how insisting on getting rid of the whole contract could make it look like nothing much is going to change payroll- or ownership-wise in Cincinnati.

I realize I am probably not helping much, but it's a really confusing situation here right now. To answer your question, I honestly do think the Reds could be "holding the White Sox hostage" by now on a Griffey deal; the ball is completely in their court. I'd say they do want a lot of salary relief, if not complete relief, plus probably two top-notch guys. If the Sox are willing to do that, the Reds will go and jump on it. If not, the Reds will be content going into the offseason with the new owners and letting THEM make the decision on him... where if Griff finishes the year on the torrid streak he's on now, he could fetch even more. It would be a risk they're probably willing to take.

One more piece of info: It's looking more likely than it was that John Allen could be out of the picture with new ownership and GM in the winter. Nothing definite, I've just heard it a few times in the last couple of days. Allen is the guy who most has wanted to deal Junior in the past, and wasn't really keen on dealing for him in the first place when the Reds got him from SEA.

Hope this helps some.

Greg

This to me raises 3 related questions:
1) Is there any chance that McCarthy/Anderson clear waivers?
2) If so, do you trade them both and pick up the contract?
3) If not, do you offer something like Young+Gio+??? and take on the whole deal?

Personally, if I'm keeping Anderson & McCarthy, I think I'd be willing to pony up Young+Gio, even though it would hurt. I might try and swap Sweeney for Young, but I'd do the deal even if I couldn't.

Griffey+Anderson+Rowand+Pods+Dye gives me a solid 3OF+DH+sub rotation for the next 2 years at the same cash salary as keeping Everett & Timo. And you'd still have McCarthy to plug in to the rotation in case of Duque/Contreras going down. So IMO you'd still have an extremely strong team for at least 2 more years after this one, plus a greatly enhanced chance at a WS in 05.

Soxzilla
08-21-2005, 10:50 PM
1) Is there any chance that McCarthy/Anderson clear waivers?


No.

Especially with them having to pass by Beane first.

DickAllen72
08-21-2005, 10:51 PM
Personally, if I'm keeping Anderson & McCarthy, I think I'd be willing to pony up Young+Gio, even though it would hurt. I might try and swap Sweeney for Young, but I'd do the deal even if I couldn't.

Griffey+Anderson+Rowand+Pods+Dye gives me a solid 3OF+DH+sub rotation for the next 2 years at the same cash salary as keeping Everett & Timo. And you'd still have McCarthy to plug in to the rotation in case of Duque/Contreras going down. So IMO you'd still have an extremely strong team for at least 2 more years after this one, plus a greatly enhanced chance at a WS in 05.

Yeah but where would....aww, skip it!

Frater Perdurabo
08-22-2005, 08:16 AM
Reds' ownership deserves one of these:

:tomatoaward:

SoxinAZ
08-24-2005, 03:01 PM
He wants it too!

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/john_donovan/08/24/griffey.trade/index.html

SoxSpeed22
08-24-2005, 03:04 PM
Add to the once-gargantuan thread.
EDIT: We've been over this, Cincy's too stupid to do it.

skobabe8
08-24-2005, 03:09 PM
He wants it too!

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/john_donovan/08/24/griffey.trade/index.html

That article says it all to me.

1917
08-24-2005, 04:35 PM
He is a die hard Reds Fan....here's the converstaion

Him- We are not getting rid of Griffey, we are playing great and we are 2 staring pitchers away from being a playoff team next year.

Me- Dude, please, you can't afford 2 good starting pitchers when you are paying all that Money to Jr....dump his contract though and you might...

Him- This is true

MORON

mdep524
08-24-2005, 04:59 PM
He wants it too!

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/john_donovan/08/24/griffey.trade/index.html EVERYONE seems to understand this except the Reds! Someone should e-mail this article to Carl Lindner.

LVSoxFan
08-24-2005, 05:17 PM
That article says it all to me.

Totally agreed. This is it in a nutshell.

EMel9281
08-24-2005, 07:31 PM
What else needs to be said?

Except for how much money does Cincy eat and who are we sending over there?

soxfan1983
08-24-2005, 09:39 PM
ANYONE ELSE FEEL THAT THIS TEAM NEEDS TO GET GRIFFEY? OR EVEN SWEENEY? I KNOW THIS SLUMP IS BECAUSE POD IS OUT, BUT I STILL THINK THEY NEED AN INTIMIDATING BATTER. I LOVED HAVING THOMAS IN THE LINEUP.... JUST HIS PRESCENCE HELPED THE TEAM... AS WOULD GRIFFEY'S. COME ON REDS... JUST GIVE HIM TO US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:dtroll:

infohawk
08-24-2005, 10:02 PM
For what it's worth, did any of you who might be reading this thread catch what Hawk said about the acquisition of Griffey? Hawk said that if KW were to get Griffey it would be the right move because Hawk has complete faith in KW. Could this be Hawk recognizing that KW could still possibly swing the deal? Hawk seemed to refrain from his earlier "where would he play" statement. I think we all know a trade is possible, but remote. I just found Hawk's statement interesting.

DickAllen72
08-24-2005, 10:31 PM
For what it's worth, did any of you who might be reading this thread catch what Hawk said about the acquisition of Griffey? Hawk said that if KW were to get Griffey it would be the right move because Hawk has complete faith in KW. Could this be Hawk recognizing that KW could still possibly swing the deal? Hawk seemed to refrain from his earlier "where would he play" statement. I think we all know a trade is possible, but remote. I just found Hawk's statement interesting.
Probably wishful thinking, but I was thinking the exact same thing when I heard Hawk talking about it tonight.

Ol' No. 2
08-24-2005, 11:36 PM
For what it's worth, did any of you who might be reading this thread catch what Hawk said about the acquisition of Griffey? Hawk said that if KW were to get Griffey it would be the right move because Hawk has complete faith in KW. Could this be Hawk recognizing that KW could still possibly swing the deal? Hawk seemed to refrain from his earlier "where would he play" statement. I think we all know a trade is possible, but remote. I just found Hawk's statement interesting.More likely someone told him he sounded like a complete moron.

Letmehearya
08-24-2005, 11:39 PM
Yes we need Griffey. We don't need Sweeney. Right now, I'd settle for Ross Gload.

infohawk
08-24-2005, 11:53 PM
More likely someone told him he sounded like a complete moron.

That crossed my mind, too!:D:

harwar
08-25-2005, 08:32 AM
I read where Griffey is getting sick & tired of trade questions.
We all expect KW to get someone in the next few days,i guess we'll see.
It will be interesting to see if KW makes the trip to Seattle with the team.

harwar
08-25-2005, 08:40 AM
For what it's worth, did any of you who might be reading this thread catch what Hawk said about the acquisition of Griffey?
I just found Hawk's statement interesting.

You're lucky.
Because of some massive solar flares i couldn't get espn1000 last night. I got the twins feed through xtra-innings last night and after the first or second inning all they talked about was tuesday nights game.
They just kept reliving it on the air over and over...
After a while i just turned the sound down on the tv and watched the game while listening to the static on the radio.

Frater Perdurabo
08-25-2005, 09:54 AM
If the Sox got Griffey, they probably would need to give Rowand a few days off just to clear his head. Rowand consistently has hit well with runners on base and two outs. But lately he's been mired in a deep slump and struggled even in those "clutch" situations where he's previously excelled.

After a weekend off, Rowand should be mentally refreshed and ready to start every day in CF for the stretch drive, while Griffey could move into the DH/OF rotation.

1917
08-25-2005, 09:56 AM
If the Sox got Griffey, they probably would need to give Rowand a few days off just to clear his head. Rowand consistently has hit well with runners on base and two outs. But lately he's been mired in a deep slump and struggled even in those "clutch" situations where he's previously excelled.

After a weekend off, Rowand should be mentally refreshed and ready to start every day in CF for the stretch drive, while Griffey could move into the DH/OF rotation.

Good point, but I'd be mentally out of it too if I crashed my head into the wall/ground as much as he did!!

LVSoxFan
08-25-2005, 10:28 AM
Hawk said getting Griffey would be good, but seemed to hedge on it a bit, like: we can still do this without him.

I forgot what DJ said, but I'm always laughing at how DJ will say something and Hawk will contradict him right there on the spot.

Chipol
08-25-2005, 11:24 AM
I saw that we outrighted Matt Smith. That frees up a roster spot, doesn't it? Possible prelude to acquiring a roster player in exchange for non-roster players?

Tekijawa
08-25-2005, 11:29 AM
I saw that we outrighted Matt Smith. That frees up a roster spot, doesn't it? Possible prelude to acquiring a roster player in exchange for non-roster players?

I think it's just Cheap *** Uncle Jerry trying to save a few 100K by knocking the Roster down to 39! Man What a scrooge!

MsSoxVixen22
08-25-2005, 05:38 PM
My Dad just told me he was talking to a friend of his. His friend said that he saw in USA today that the Sox will have JR. Have any of you guys seen that?

JermaineDye05
08-25-2005, 06:07 PM
My Dad just told me he was talking to a friend of his. His friend said that he saw in USA today that the Sox will have JR. Have any of you guys seen that?

no but it prolly has about as much truth as the ESPN Insider rumors, I'd love to be wrong though

1917
08-26-2005, 10:33 AM
I read that USA Today artical...it was nothing that we all haven't heard...Jr. knows nothing, there has been talk, but for right now he is a Red...and they mentioned even if a trade is pulled, he has the right to waive it

hawkjt
08-27-2005, 01:39 PM
On am1000 Tom Shaer just said there might be breaking Griffey news with Bruce Levine coming up with a report.

Maybe Brian Anderson's excellant adventure made him too attractive for the Reds to pass on.

Mixed feelings on losing guys like Brian but we just have to go for it this year.

Maybe I am way off-base and it is just another rumor. Griff hit two dingers last nite also to get him to 32 for the year. He is hotter than hell right now and would be quite a boost.

IlliniSox
08-27-2005, 01:41 PM
Anderson can't be traded, he's on the major league roster and would have to clear waivers.

Fredsox
08-27-2005, 01:43 PM
Screw'em. We'll finish this war with the guys we've got. I'm tired of having my figurative chain yanked by the Reds owner, he can kiss my ugly booty on State and Madison.

Jerry_Manuel
08-27-2005, 01:44 PM
On am1000 Tom Shaer just said there might be breaking Griffey news with Bruce Levine coming up with a report.


Oh geez.

I wonder if he'll report Griffey has cleared waivers again and pass this off as news.

SoxSpeed22
08-27-2005, 01:49 PM
:fobbgod:"Don't you know that you can't make a trade for the sake of making a trade, otherwise you're gonna screw it up. The day you HAVE to do something, you're screwed."

hawkjt
08-27-2005, 01:49 PM
Levine said the deal is heating up and the sox are now willing to eat more money. Says that Griff has to come out and say publically that he wants out so that pressure on the owner is off. Says will happen by Monday if Griff is ok with it.

Take with a pinch of salt. But after our recent offensive woes I say we must do it. He would be a good dh for the next couple of years.

I was wrong about Anderson as you indicated. Probably will be Young and/or Owens and others.

HebrewHammer
08-27-2005, 02:12 PM
Levine said the deal is heating up and the sox are now willing to eat more money. Says that Griff has to come out and say publically that he wants out so that pressure on the owner is off. Says will happen by Monday if Griff is ok with it.

Take with a pinch of salt. But after our recent offensive woes I say we must do it. He would be a good dh for the next couple of years.

I was wrong about Anderson as you indicated. Probably will be Young and/or Owens and others.

Based on his recent track record, I'd rather have LeVineLine saying that it won't happen.

How is this guy not held accountable for the BS he claims as fact?

Soxzilla
08-27-2005, 02:16 PM
I was wrong about Anderson as you indicated. Probably will be Young and/or Owens and others.

Problem is. Cincinnati doesn't need outfielders.

HotelWhiteSox
08-27-2005, 02:53 PM
I heard this as well, saying that it's getting very heated in the update. I had given up on Griffey, especially with the money aspect and future ramifications, but I can't lie, hearing it made me smile

soltrain21
08-27-2005, 03:00 PM
I would love this more than anything.


Get it done, KW!

Letmehearya
08-27-2005, 03:01 PM
Problem is. Cincinnati doesn't need outfielders.

From what I've read, Young is future superstar. With Junior, we're going for the crown. [which I totally support] One day, we'll note Young was once a rising star in the Sox organization. If Junior shows up now, it'll be the shot in the arm that could propel us all the way. Do it JR!

mdep524
08-27-2005, 03:08 PM
Oh dear God... I wish I hadn't read this right now! Now I'm going to be on edge all weekend wondering if it is true or not. Like a lot of fans, I had given up on the Griffey possibility... hold on to your hats everybody!

Soxzilla
08-27-2005, 03:12 PM
From what I've read, Young is future superstar. With Junior, we're going for the crown. [which I totally support] One day, we'll note Young was once a rising star in the Sox organization. If Junior shows up now, it'll be the shot in the arm that could propel us all the way. Do it JR!

Who cares if he is a future superstar.

The Reds have their own wealth of could-be outfield superstars. They need pitching.

If the Reds get pitching for this next season, they could be a very dangerous team with that amazing offense they have.

samram
08-27-2005, 03:20 PM
Who cares if he is a future superstar.

The Reds have their own wealth of could-be outfield superstars. They need pitching.

If the Reds get pitching for this next season, they could be a very dangerous team with that amazing offense they have.

I agree with you that they need pitching very desperately, but no one they get from the Sox is going to help next year. Neither McCarthy nor Anderson would make it through waivers. Therefore, they have to think about who could help in a couple of years. I'm not sure what the new ownership will be like, but for the most part, Cincy owners haven't been shelling out a lot of big contracts. That means they won't be paying Dunn, Kearns, and Pena big money at the same time and they'll need guys from the minors to come in and replace them.

SABRSox
08-27-2005, 03:21 PM
Who cares if he is a future superstar.

The Reds have their own wealth of could-be outfield superstars. They need pitching.

If the Reds get pitching for this next season, they could be a very dangerous team with that amazing offense they have.

I think the Reds will want to get the best players they can, regardless of their depth at other positions. Guys like Dunn and Kearns and Mo Pena won't be cheap for long, and plugging in Young to save some money would be a huge asset.

They could also take Young and flip him to another team for the pitcher(s) they need for next year.

As much as I'd love to see Young playing in a White Sox uni, I want to win the WS. If Griffey is the guy (and he very well could be) we've got to do it. Get 'er done!

Ol' No. 2
08-27-2005, 03:36 PM
I think the Reds will want to get the best players they can, regardless of their depth at other positions. Guys like Dunn and Kearns and Mo Pena won't be cheap for long, and plugging in Young to save some money would be a huge asset.

They could also take Young and flip him to another team for the pitcher(s) they need for next year.

As much as I'd love to see Young playing in a White Sox uni, I want to win the WS. If Griffey is the guy (and he very well could be) we've got to do it. Get 'er done!I've said before and I'll say it again. When the Sox take the field on Sept 1, there's an excellent chance Griffey will be with them. The deal makes too much sense NOT to get done. As has been pointed out, Dunn, Kearns and Pena are going to command more money soon, and when (not if) it comes down to keeping Griffey or those guys, it's a no-brainer.

This is a done deal. They're just haggling about the price. But the haggling has to end by Aug 31.

Domeshot17
08-27-2005, 04:04 PM
Well, The Real Shiety White Sox Fan Forum is buzzing that a Griffey trade will be announced by the start of tonights game, according to the score they say. I havent heard anything on The Score or ESPN Radio since I turned it on 15 minutes ago, but who knows. Feels like July 27 all over again.

MushMouth
08-27-2005, 04:13 PM
Well, The Real Shiety White Sox Fan Forum is buzzing that a Griffey trade will be announced by the start of tonights game, according to the score they say. I havent heard anything on The Score or ESPN Radio since I turned it on 15 minutes ago, but who knows. Feels like July 27 all over again.

Anyone listening to the Score care to confirm?

I was listening to ESPN1000 for awhile this afternoon running errands and didn't hear any rumors.

Mr. White Sox
08-27-2005, 04:15 PM
Anyone listening to the Score care to confirm?

I was listening to ESPN1000 for awhile this afternoon running errands and didn't hear any rumors.

UPDATE: Nothing at all in the Score update. Supposedly Bruth Levine reported a deal is close, but Bruth will be Bruth and that is unconfirmed of course and not said in the update.

Randar68
08-27-2005, 04:24 PM
Levine said the deal is heating up and the sox are now willing to eat more money. Says that Griff has to come out and say publically that he wants out so that pressure on the owner is off. Says will happen by Monday if Griff is ok with it.

Well, if more money is coming OFF the table from the Reds, I sure as Hell hope Young does as well.... Anyone else is fair game, IMO...

MushMouth
08-27-2005, 04:25 PM
UPDATE: Nothing at all in the Score update. Supposedly Bruth Levine reported a deal is close, but Bruth will be Bruth and that is unconfirmed of course and not said in the update.

Yeah, read through that White Sox Forum thread and it sounds like someone just made it up... guess we shouldn't expect much from those folks anyway.

But the Levine report sounds promising.

MushMouth
08-27-2005, 04:26 PM
Well, if more money is coming OFF the table from the Reds, I sure as Hell hope Young does as well.... Anyone else is fair game, IMO...

On a side note, who do you think has more promise, Young or Anderson?

Mr. White Sox
08-27-2005, 04:28 PM
On a side note, who do you think has more promise, Young or Anderson?

I am no minor league expert, but from what I've heard, Chris Young has the highest ceiling of any hitting prospect in the Sox org. Brian Anderson is more of a 'sure thing', and Ryan Sweeney has a high ceiling as well, provided he starts hitting for power which should come soon.

MushMouth
08-27-2005, 04:32 PM
I am no minor league expert, but from what I've heard, Chris Young has the highest ceiling of any hitting prospect in the Sox org. Brian Anderson is more of a 'sure thing', and Ryan Sweeney has a high ceiling as well, provided he starts hitting for power which should come soon.

Anderson seems like a custom made Major League outfielder so far... Comfortable in the field (last night's lost pop-up notwithstanding) and has a nice stroke. Plus I love humming the Great American Hero song everytime he comes to bat (Constanza lyrics optional).

It's nice to have these prospects. I do want Griffey tho. Badly. One more consistent power bat to hit 3rd, with Paulie getting his back.

Jjav829
08-27-2005, 05:37 PM
Memo to Kenny Williams, since I know he reads these boards.


My birthday is Monday. You couldn't possibly give me a better birthday gift than Ken Griffey Jr. on the White Sox. Well, unless you want to buy me a new Corvette. Your choice...

Sincerely,

Jjav829

:wink: :D:

HebrewHammer
08-27-2005, 05:37 PM
Feels like July 27 all over again.

Yes it does.

Letmehearya
08-27-2005, 06:59 PM
Who cares if he is a future superstar.

The Reds have their own wealth of could-be outfield superstars. They need pitching.

If the Reds get pitching for this next season, they could be a very dangerous team with that amazing offense they have.

Who cares if he's a future superstar? The Cincinnatti Reds perhaps?

Domeshot17
08-27-2005, 07:46 PM
Not to be the guy that pops the balloon of hope, but I was checking out Redszone.com to see what they had to say about trade talks supposedly heating up, and nothing, not one topic remotely involving griffey being dealt anywhere.

HotelWhiteSox
08-27-2005, 07:48 PM
Stupid ESPN doing national stuff, haven't heard one local update, although I did hear the Shaer and Levine update earlier, exact words were 'heating up', and I believe they said they want to get it done soon.

Have heard nothing of it anywhere else, nothing on the Score, though I do periodically check ESPNEWS to see if that breaking news box will pleasantly surprise me...

ElDuque26
08-27-2005, 07:52 PM
Giving up Chris Young isnt that big of a deal...we have three solid outfielders with scott healthy, griffey would make four and aside from him they are all relatively young. Then you have anderson who is solid and in the minors you have Sweeney who is only 20 and Jerry Owens who has scotty speed on the bases and is hitting .340...with those two and anderson still our three prospects its hard to be latching on to Young over Griffey

Thommary
08-27-2005, 08:09 PM
I agree, giving up Young is not that big of a deal given that Anderson looks good (I know, it's soon to judge) and I've been reading good things about Owens. Make the deal!

SouthSide_HitMen
08-27-2005, 08:10 PM
Stupid ESPN doing national stuff, haven't heard one local update, although I did hear the Shaer and Levine update earlier, exact words were 'heating up', and I believe they said they want to get it done soon.

Have heard nothing of it anywhere else, nothing on the Score, though I do periodically check ESPNEWS to see if that breaking news box will pleasantly surprise me...

Maybe the Cubs / Cubune pays Levine $100 everytime he mentions the word Griffey on air. Or perhaps ESPN for the Sox pulling the plug on them after this season.

Either way I'll believe it when I read it on the MLB.com site under transactions. Until then it is noise (and possibly anti Sox propaganda harping on how we are not good enough with the team we have now). I would like Griffey, don't get me wrong, though I am not obsessed with it as some people at ESPN / Cubune are.

Fredsox
08-27-2005, 08:13 PM
FYI Griffey is in the Reds' lineup tonight according to Gameday. I assume that it is official as the game should have started already (delayed due to rain).

If anything is happening I doubt that it is going to occur tonight. I think we all need to realize that these deals are not simple at all, in fact they are very complex involving people's lives and millions of dollars. The fact that no other sources are hearing the same things Levine is reporting tells me that nothing is imminent.

HotelWhiteSox
08-27-2005, 08:20 PM
FYI Griffey is in the Reds' lineup tonight according to Gameday. I assume that it is official as the game should have started already (delayed due to rain).

If anything is happening I doubt that it is going to occur tonight. I think we all need to realize that these deals are not simple at all, in fact they are very complex involving people's lives and millions of dollars. The fact that no other sources are hearing the same things Levine is reporting tells me that nothing is imminent.

Well, to be fair, and to have White Sox fans continue to refresh WSI regularly, it can happen midgame, see: Olivo when the Garcia trade went down, it just might not be done yet

Chisox003
08-27-2005, 08:24 PM
FWIW, Jr. just singled in the first inning...

And I havent really gone over this thread to see where this new rumor is coming from, but if it has ANYTHING to do with jackass levine I give it absolutely zero credibility...

Ol' No. 2
08-27-2005, 08:25 PM
Memo to Kenny Williams, since I know he reads these boards.


My birthday is Monday. You couldn't possibly give me a better birthday gift than Ken Griffey Jr. on the White Sox. Well, unless you want to buy me a new Corvette. Your choice...

Sincerely,

Jjav829

:wink: :D::KW Well, the Corvette is A LOT cheaper....

Fredsox
08-27-2005, 09:02 PM
FWIW, Jr. just singled in the first inning...

And I havent really gone over this thread to see where this new rumor is coming from, but if it has ANYTHING to do with jackass levine I give it absolutely zero credibility...

Basically Levine reported this morning that the Griffey talks had "heated up again" and that the White Sox had agreed to taking on a larger portion of Griffey's contract. It was also insinuated that the players to be traded were agreed on, and all that was left was Griffey's ok and the paperwork. People who listened to the report got the impression that a trade was imminent.

Subsequently NO ONE ELSE in the Chicago media, or the national, or even the Reds discussion lists have reported any renewed activity. Either Levine has a very exclusive pipeline to the White Sox management or something is fishy.

The Dude
08-27-2005, 09:02 PM
Man, do i hate Levineline!! He's built up my hopes so many ****ing times. But if this does go down, I obviously will give him props for the time being.:gulp:

Then I will return to my Levineline hating.:D:

DickAllen72
08-27-2005, 10:06 PM
Levine reported on the pre-game show that Griffey said that he was flattered by the Sox interest, but he doesn't want to go anywhere.

So, according to Levine, unless Griffey has a change of heart in the next four days, the trade is dead.

ChiWhiteSox1337
08-27-2005, 10:09 PM
Levine reported on the pre-game show that Griffey said that he was flattered by the Sox interest, but he doesn't want to go anywhere.

So, according to Levine, unless Griffey has a change of heart in the next four days, the trade is dead.
Can you honestly blame Griffey? He gets to face the Cubs 19 times a season playing in the NL central!

ilsox7
08-27-2005, 10:11 PM
Levine reported on the pre-game show that Griffey said that he was flattered by the Sox interest, but he doesn't want to go anywhere.

So, according to Levine, unless Griffey has a change of heart in the next four days, the trade is dead.

And there you have Levineline covering his ass. I imagine his day went something like this:

Bruce gets a call from a "source" saying KW called the Reds once more to see if a deal could be made. Bruce goes on radio and says a deal is imminent. It becomes obvious that Reds ownership still won't green light the deal so Bruce just says Griffey said no.

oeo
08-27-2005, 10:12 PM
Levine reported on the pre-game show that Griffey said that he was flattered by the Sox interest, but he doesn't want to go anywhere.

So, according to Levine, unless Griffey has a change of heart in the next four days, the trade is dead.

In other words, his rumor was total BS, and now he's taking the easy way out. GJ Bruce!

ThinWhiteDuque
08-27-2005, 10:17 PM
Levine reported on the pre-game show that Griffey said that he was flattered by the Sox interest, but he doesn't want to go anywhere.

So, according to Levine, unless Griffey has a change of heart in the next four days, the trade is dead.


Great. :angry:

Can we lock this GD thread now?

Jjav829
08-27-2005, 10:32 PM
Levine reported on the pre-game show that Griffey said that he was flattered by the Sox interest, but he doesn't want to go anywhere.

So, according to Levine, unless Griffey has a change of heart in the next four days, the trade is dead.

I'm way too obsessed with this. I'm watching Griffey bat in his 4th plate appearance and he flies out to center. I actually started watching his body language after the play ended and as he looked out to the outfield I'm thinking, "He's looking to see what the Sox are doing so far." This needs to happen before I drive myself crazy. :smile:

Soxzilla
08-27-2005, 10:33 PM
I'm way too obsessed with this. I'm watching Griffey bat in his 4th plate appearance and he flies out to center. I actually started watching his body language and as he looked out to right field I'm thinking, "He's looking to see what the Sox are doing so far." This needs to happen before I drive myself crazy. :smile:

No Griffey and No WS make Jjav something something...

I'm with you man. Griff is my hero...I'm dreaming of a konerko double down the line in the ninth that plates a sliding griffey to win the WS.

Just like in '95!

HotelWhiteSox
08-27-2005, 10:53 PM
Jeez, Cowley is more reliable than Levine, how many times has he been wrong, just this season??? He was wrong a lot last year as well, as I remember him throwing out names like Ventura or other LF bats coming before the deadline, this guy now has 0 credibility, they have the nerve to call him an 'insider'. His breaking news has to do with Flubs contract signings, after they've already happened.

Banix12
08-28-2005, 12:33 AM
Levine reported on the pre-game show that Griffey said that he was flattered by the Sox interest, but he doesn't want to go anywhere.

So, according to Levine, unless Griffey has a change of heart in the next four days, the trade is dead.

But since levine is always wrong... That means Griffey is on his way! YAY!!!

Domeshot17
08-28-2005, 01:14 AM
WhiteSox.com message boards have several posts reporting Sportsnite on Comcast said the Sox upped the offer to the Reds, but Griffey said he would not go to Chicago.

ilsox7
08-28-2005, 01:16 AM
WhiteSox.com message boards have several posts reporting Sportsnite on Comcast said the Sox upped the offer to the Reds, but Griffey said he would not go to Chicago.

True. Comcast just said this about 5 minutes ago. Apparently the Sox offered to take on more of Griffey's K, but Griffey told a source he isn't going to Chicago.

Ol' No. 2
08-28-2005, 01:18 AM
True. Comcast just said this about 5 minutes ago. Apparently the Sox offered to take on more of Griffey's K, but Griffey told a source he isn't going to Chicago.Rot in hell, Griffey. Or Cincinnati. Same thing.

FarWestChicago
08-28-2005, 01:18 AM
Rot in hell, Griffey. Or Cincinnati. Same thing.He ain't getting any younger. What a dumbass. :rolleyes:

samram
08-28-2005, 01:18 AM
True. Comcast just said this about 5 minutes ago. Apparently the Sox offered to take on more of Griffey's K, but Griffey told a source he isn't going to Chicago.

That could mean that he isn't going because the Reds aren't interested. Or it could mean that no one knows anything. I'll go with the latter.

Ol' No. 2
08-28-2005, 01:24 AM
Wow. I just read the "Mailbag (http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050822&content_id=1179733&vkey=news_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin)" page on the Reds website. Some of these Reds fans make Cubs fans look smart.

Caution: Don't read this while drinking anything you don't want coming out of your nose.

Does the rumored Ken Griffey Jr. trade to the White Sox hold water? I heard they were putting Griffey on waivers to acquire Mark Buehrle. Is this true or just a rumor?
-- Chris T., Xenia, Ohio
IS GRIFFEY GOING TO BE TRADED TO THE CUBS? I'M A HUGE FAN AND WOULD LIKE TO KNOW HIS STATUS. THANK YOU.
-- Michael H., Mechanicsburg, Ohio

TheOldRoman
08-28-2005, 01:26 AM
True. Comcast just said this about 5 minutes ago. Apparently the Sox offered to take on more of Griffey's K, but Griffey told a source he isn't going to Chicago.
Well, I am still not closing the door on this deal. What "sources" did he tell? I remember Levineline having "sources" that said Griffey would never come to Chicago, and then I remember Griffey saying in an interview that he would come here. If the Sox and Reds reached a deal, and Griffey said no, Im sure it wouldn't have happened in such a short period of time. If Griffey was asked about the deal today, and said no, Im sure the Sox would say "take a couple days to think it over, talk to the wife, etc." When Griffey sleeps on it, he might wake up with the desire to not spend the rest of his career on a horrible team.
If what Levineline is saying is true (doubt it), the Reds/Sox asked Griffey to publically call for the trade and he refused. I think Griffey would approve a trade here, but he doesnt want to be the bad guy and demand a trade. The Cincy owner is as clueless as he is spineless.

But if it comes down to Griffey deciding he would rather play in obscurity and never again sniff the playoffs than play for a championship this year... to hell with him.

SoxSpeed22
08-28-2005, 01:27 AM
That's why the Reds are a worthless organization and we're at the top.
EDIT: This is probably more Griffey's fault than theirs. And Levineline can also rot for raising our hopes and crushing them very quickly.

Soxzilla
08-28-2005, 01:37 AM
In an interview with a reporter a few weeks ago, when asked if he wanted to leave Cincinnati, he replied "I'd rather win."

Take that FWIW.

TheOldRoman
08-28-2005, 01:44 AM
I just heard the report on Comcast. Guess where they got the "source" tha Griffey allegedly told he wouldn't play here. You guessed, Comcast Baseball Insider Bruce Levine. Levine is a stooge. Put no value on this "Griffey wont come here" report. If the deal gets past Linder, Griffey will approve it.

Another thing they mentioned: Griffey said today "Im not going to Chicago." While that is true, it is out of context. He got to his locker, and saw loads and loads of reporters there again, so he started out the conversation by saying "Im not going to Chicago" before they could even hound him about it. It has to get tiresome for him to answer the same questions 50 times a day for the past month.

Ol' No. 2
08-28-2005, 01:49 AM
That's why the Reds are a worthless organization and we're at the top.
EDIT: This is probably more Griffey's fault than theirs. And Levineline can also rot for raising our hopes and crushing them very quickly.Sorry, but if Levineline is driving you nuts, it's your own fault for paying him the slightest attention. You might just as well be throwing chicken bones on the floor to find out what's going to happen.

In fact, Levine is worse than useless on this story. The idea that Griffey would come to the Sox is so unpalatable to him that he'll seize on any shred to report that it won't happen, even if he has to make up the shred himself.

SoxSpeed22
08-28-2005, 01:51 AM
Sorry, but if Levineline is driving you nuts, it's your own fault for paying him the slightest attention. You might just as well be throwing chicken bones on the floor to find out what's going to happen.

In fact, Levine is worse than useless on this story. The idea that Griffey would come to the Sox is so unpalatable to him that he'll seize on any shred to report that it won't happen, even if he has to make up the shred himself.Yeah, you're right. Once upon a time the Cubs...

DickAllen72
08-28-2005, 02:00 AM
Here's the story as reported in "The Journal News" out of Dayton Ohio: http://www.journal-news.com/sports/content/sports/stories/2005/08/28/HJN0828redsnotes_tc.html

One radio station said the trade was done, and all it needed was the center fielder's approval, as is necessary.

What else is there to talk about on a rainy day when your team is in the tank, losing six of its last 10 and watching its American League Central lead shrivel from 14 games to eight?

When Reds manager Jerry Narron heard the report that the temperature is up in Chicago, he smiled and said, "I'll bet it is."

Of course, he meant the heat is on White Sox management to put a tourniquet on the wounds because of the losing and because Griffey is unstitching baseballs every day.

It is true that the White Sox are turning up the heat. They called the Reds again this week, begging for a mercy trade to save them. Again they were rebuffed, even though they offered to take on more of Griffey's salary.

Griffey saw the media approach him Saturday afternoon, held up his hands and said without being asked, "I'm not going to Chicago. I'm in Pittsburgh with the Cincinnati Reds, and that's where I'm staying."

Asked how he knew the question, he said, "The only time you guys make a bee-line to me these days is to ask about a trade or if I'm Star of the Game."

As usual, Griffey treated it with humor.

"I'm not talking about this without the presence of my attorney," he said with a laugh. "The ball club has not made a formal offer to me, so there is nothing to say. Will I accept a trade? I haven't talked to anybody on the club about it."

ChiWhiteSox1337
08-28-2005, 02:06 AM
:roflmao:
What a crappy article. It's good to know that Chicago isn't the only town in America with garbage sport writers.

TheOldRoman
08-28-2005, 02:06 AM
Here's the story as reported in "The Journal News" out of Dayton Ohio: http://www.journal-news.com/sports/content/sports/stories/2005/08/28/HJN0828redsnotes_tc.html

Sigh. Another cop out BS article from lazy media. Yeah, the Sox are SOOOO horrible and desperate. At the time this crap was written, the Sox had taken 4 out of their last 5. This article does little more than pile on the Sox and try to make the Reds look good, with such garbage as "mercy trade".

The important thing is, Griffey said that nobody made a formal offer to him. Looks like Levine was lying again about the Sox talking to Griffey and him turning them down. The Reds are morons, and it appears as though they get the kind of love from their local media normally reserved for the Cubs.

SOX ADDICT '73
08-28-2005, 02:17 AM
Sorry, but if Levineline is driving you nuts, it's your own fault for paying him the slightest attention. You might just as well be throwing chicken bones on the floor to find out what's going to happen.
We were watching the WGN news waiting for the game to start, and happened to catch the weather forecast. My friend says, "Wouldn't it be nice to have a job where you can be wrong most of the time, and not get fired?" I told him I could think of at least one guy who fits that description:

http://images.radcity.net/5176/584831.jpg
"Sources tell me that a deal is heating up for the Sox to acquire Nomar Garciaparra from the Cubs to fill the void at third base."

In all seriousness, though, somebody has got to take LeVineLine to task for all the BS he's been spreading around lately. Doesn't anyone hold this jackass accountable? Or is he free just to make up whatever crap enters his mind?

He's like the boy who cried "Wolf!" Eventually, he might be right about something that would (under normal circumstances) make me happy, but there's no way I would believe him at this point.

Banix12
08-28-2005, 03:41 AM
http://images.radcity.net/5176/584831.jpg
"CRISWELL PREDICTS... In 2007, in an effort to excite intrest in baseball amongst fans, Bud Selig will arrange an unheard of 30 team trade. In a related trade, the San Diego Chicken will be traded to Milwaukee for the Italian Sausage! In 2010 the body of Ty Cobb shall be reanimated and Zombie Cobb shall lead the Devil Rays to the World series!"

Sorry, just in an Ed Wood mood for some reason.

Mickster
08-28-2005, 08:24 AM
Griffey saw the media approach him Saturday afternoon, held up his hands and said without being asked, "I'm not going to Chicago. I'm in Pittsburgh with the Cincinnati Reds, and that's where I'm staying."

Asked how he knew the question, he said, "The only time you guys make a bee-line to me these days is to ask about a trade or if I'm Star of the Game."

As usual, Griffey treated it with humor.

"I'm not talking about this without the presence of my attorney," he said with a laugh. "The ball club has not made a formal offer to me, so there is nothing to say. Will I accept a trade? I haven't talked to anybody on the club about it." Sounds like his "I'm not going to Chicago" comments were a bit of a joke....

broker3d
08-28-2005, 09:44 AM
Bruce Levine was discussing these same words yesterday but here is a separate article on it.

Chicago radio and television stations reported Saturday that the Chicago White Sox have turned the heat up on the Cincinnati Reds to trade them Ken Griffey Jr. (http://www.daytondailynews.com/sports/content/sports/reds/daily/0828redsnotes.html), as if they held blow torches under General Manager Dan O'Brien's feet so he would say, "Yes, yes. Oh, yes, please take Griffey off our hands." One radio station said the trade was done and all it needed was Griffey's OK, as is necessary.

TornLabrum
08-28-2005, 09:48 AM
Bruce Levine was discussing these same words yesterday but here is a separate article on it.

Chicago radio and television stations reported Saturday that the Chicago White Sox have turned the heat up on the Cincinnati Reds to trade them Ken Griffey Jr. (http://www.daytondailynews.com/sports/content/sports/reds/daily/0828redsnotes.html), as if they held blow torches under General Manager Dan O'Brien's feet so he would say, "Yes, yes. Oh, yes, please take Griffey off our hands." One radio station said the trade was done and all it needed was Griffey's OK, as is necessary.

All Griffey rumors go to the Griffey rumor thread in "What's the Score?" Please use the search function and spare the rest of us from thread proliferation.

CarlosMay'sThumb
08-28-2005, 10:12 AM
I think it's pretty funny that the only reports I've heard of this discussion is the initial line by Griffey:

"I'm not going to Chicago. I'm in Pittsburgh with the Cincinnati Reds, and that's where I'm staying."

But somehow they have all managed to leave out the rest of the quote:

"The ballclub has not made a formal offer to me, so there is nothing to say. Will I accept a trade? I haven't talked to anybody on the club about it."

After hearing the first quote I thought Griffey would refuse a trade - after reading the second it sounds like it's still a possibility.

SOXSINCE'70
08-28-2005, 10:23 AM
Been there,done that.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

NEXT!!!!

oeo
08-28-2005, 10:31 AM
What else is there to talk about on a rainy day when your team is in the tank, losing six of its last 10 and watching its American League Central lead shrivel from 14 games to eight?

Or how about winning their last four and watching their lead go from 7 games to NINE games. This makes no sense whatsoever...ripping on the best team in the American League....It is almost like these guys think the Reds are contenders or something.

CLR01
08-28-2005, 10:36 AM
All Griffey rumors go to the Griffey rumor thread in "What's the Score?" Please use the search function and spare the rest of us from thread proliferation.


This guy is obviously special and deserves his own thread.

Jjav829
08-28-2005, 10:41 AM
I think it's pretty funny that the only reports I've heard of this discussion is the initial line by Griffey:

"I'm not going to Chicago. I'm in Pittsburgh with the Cincinnati Reds, and that's where I'm staying."

But somehow they have all managed to leave out the rest of the quote:

"The ballclub has not made a formal offer to me, so there is nothing to say. Will I accept a trade? I haven't talked to anybody on the club about it."

After hearing the first quote I thought Griffey would refuse a trade - after reading the second it sounds like it's still a possibility.

This isn't much different from the MSNBC article where Griffey supposedly demanded a trade to the Sox. It's just a matter of taking his words out of context, or not understanding what he means. Griffey didn't say he wouldn't come here if a trade was made and he was asked to accept it. What he said was that as of the moment he was talking, he was still a Red preparing to play Pittsburgh and was not on his way to Chicago. Levine specifically mentioned that the source who told him that Griffey declined to come here was Hal McCoy. So McCoy got took this quote out of context and then relayed it to Levine who reported what McCoy wrote.

SoxSpeed22
08-28-2005, 12:32 PM
ESPN uses the same BS source. I know he wants it. He's just building up drama.

Dice
08-28-2005, 01:10 PM
Out of his own mouth. SO PLEASE. STOP the rumors and speculation. Thanks.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2145074

DumpJerry
08-28-2005, 01:13 PM
There's a thread in What The Score for this topic already.

Ol' No. 2
08-28-2005, 01:13 PM
Out of his own mouth. SO PLEASE. STOP the rumors and speculation. Thanks.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2145074You must be the first one to notice this story. You'd think with all the interest there would already be a thread about this somewhere.

The Dude
08-28-2005, 01:13 PM
Out of his own mouth. SO PLEASE. STOP the rumors and speculation. Thanks.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2145074

How is that official??? He said no one has contacted him.

pmck003
08-28-2005, 01:19 PM
Does irk me a little to see that espn put the title of the story; "Griffey "I'm not going to Chicago" as to seem and mean he wouldn't. I'm starting to believe in the media bias.

soltrain21
08-28-2005, 01:21 PM
Out of his own mouth. SO PLEASE. STOP the rumors and speculation. Thanks.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2145074


Jeez, a little angry, aren't we?

RedHeadPaleHoser
08-28-2005, 01:22 PM
:tomatoaward :tomatoaward

downstairs
08-28-2005, 01:35 PM
Out of his own mouth. SO PLEASE. STOP the rumors and speculation. Thanks.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2145074

Tell me one player (Ok, one player that is not Manny Ramirez) who actually says he wants to be traded to a specific team at a specific time?

He's smarter than that. Its all politics. he MAY feel that way, but if a player or team executive says a trade is not going to be made, its a worthless quote. THEY ALL SAY THAT!

Letmehearya
08-28-2005, 02:35 PM
Chill out everyone. In context, Junior simply said "I haven't been asked so I'm not going to Chicago." Would he want to leave a town [his hometown] that expected him to bring them to at least 2 World Series by now, a team that is on a youth movement push, a team with no chance for the playoffs in the foreseeable future and join a team that's in the playoffs and has a great shot at the World Series, and a team that plays in a league where he can rest his legs and extend his career by playing DH?

C'mon. He'd say yes. But he and his advisors smartly aren't going to come out demanding a trade to the Sox. This will play out soon enough. Where there's smoke there's fire. The Sox and Reds are still talking.

Clarkdog
08-28-2005, 05:04 PM
Chill out everyone. In context, Junior simply said "I haven't been asked so I'm not going to Chicago." Would he want to leave a town [his hometown] that expected him to bring them to at least 2 World Series by now, a team that is on a youth movement push, a team with no chance for the playoffs in the foreseeable future and join a team that's in the playoffs and has a great shot at the World Series, and a team that plays in a league where he can rest his legs and extend his career by playing DH?

C'mon. He'd say yes. But he and his advisors smartly aren't going to come out demanding a trade to the Sox. This will play out soon enough. Where there's smoke there's fire. The Sox and Reds are still talking.

This is dead on. This whole thing has come down to structuring a deal so that everyone saves face.

These rumors have been going on for some time - the Sox and Reds are talking.

Now yesterday, I heard LevineLine say yesterday that the talks between the Sox and Reds have heated up again with the Sox stepping up and taking on more money on Griffey's contract from the Reds. And in his opinion (for what it's worth), that Griffey needed to come forward and express his desire to play for a contender and try to get a ring before he retires.

Also, he mentioned that at some point Griffey needs to get himself to the AL in order to transition into a DH role and cut down on his playing time in the field. I totally agree with that. At 36, he cannot be laying out for fly balls every day for a 162 game season for another 3 seasons- not with his history of injuries.

This deal makes absolute sense, that is the reason for the persistent speculation.

But the LevineLine point that Griffey needs to express his desire to play for a contender was the most telling statement. It gives the Reds an out. They can face their fans and any prospective buyer of the club with the knowledge that they wanted to keep Griffey, but he wanted to go - so the Reds wanted to make sure they got the best deal possible in terms of talent and salary relief for the future of the team and the new ownership. Without Griffey expressing desire, Reds management look like the bad guys and do more to sour their relationship with the fan base.

There is no way that the Reds will get as good a deal in the off season. They may get some better players (closer to MLB or MLB ready) - but they will eat the lion share of that contract. The Sox won't make the Reds whole, but from a $$$ standpoint I'll bet the Sox will take a bigger % than anyone else will in the off season.

I still think this thing is going to happen. Probably should be in teal, but it just makes too much sense.

Vernam
08-28-2005, 06:35 PM
This is dead on. This whole thing has come down to structuring a deal so that everyone saves face . . . SNIP . . I still think this thing is going to happen. Probably should be in teal, but it just makes too much sense.That's all good analysis, though I'm afraid people still looking for the trade (including me) are mostly caught up in wishful thinking. The hold-up seems to be about avoiding a situation where either the Reds ownership or Griffey is perceived as the bad guy. Reds fans endured season after season where he spent full time on the DL, and it would be hard for them to let go just when he's returned to his old form. Some of their diehard followers might recognize the wisdom, but the average fan would just see a Hall of Famer walking out the door. If we were out of contention and Frank were healthy, I don't think many Sox fans would be thrilled to see him dealt for prospects.

Not that I care how disappointed Reds fans might be, obviously! But their owners have no choice but to consider it.

VC

Jurr
08-28-2005, 06:46 PM
I don't see the big deal in getting Griffey. He's hitting unbelievably, but what is he going to be like facing AL pitching? That's one hell of an adjustment, especially with 4 weeks left.

Brian Anderson should be given a chance. Nobody has the book on him yet, and he could be lightning in a bottle in September and October. If Griffey comes to Chicago, he'll be pounded with tons of expectations, and you never know how he'll perform in that environment. Anderson's just out there having fun, playing loose, and that means a lot.

The bats are beginning to heat up again, and that's going to make getting Griff much less of a priority. Rowand's had a good game today, Dye was brilliant last night, and we're getting Pods back. Offensively, I see us being pretty viable very soon. It's cool.

Does Griffey make us championship material? Maybe on paper, but there are a LOT of factors to consider, and it may not be worth the risk. The team has won all year with the guys they have, and it would be great to see the guys that started the year finish the year. I'm pumped. Let Griff rot in Cincy.

SOXintheBURGH
08-28-2005, 06:56 PM
Just got back from PNC Park and saw Griffey put on a hitting clinic.. That man's going to look good in black pinstripes. Sorry, no cell phone pics.

Domeshot17
08-28-2005, 10:42 PM
3 days 2 hours and 20 minutes. I would assume If a deal is struck, it will be tommrow, because Griffey will have to be given his 48 hour window to decide if he wants to go or not. My guess is we forge onto the playoffs with what we got. And after this second half the season, god hope we go into next year with a new left side of the infield, because Uribe is just as bad as Crede.

SOX ADDICT '73
08-29-2005, 12:05 AM
I don't see the big deal in getting Griffey. He's hitting unbelievably, but what is he going to be like facing AL pitching?
Yeah, because Lord knows how much he sucked against AL pitching the first time around!

I know, I know, a lot of different pitchers in the league since 1999; just couldn't resist the chance to be a smart-ass. :wink:

Randar68
08-29-2005, 12:49 AM
The bats are beginning to heat up again, and that's going to make getting Griff much less of a priority.

Yeah, 11 runs in 3 games is just LIGHTING IT UP!

Did Griffey drive in 11 runs himself this weekend? Sure seemed like it...

Jjav829
08-29-2005, 01:02 AM
Yeah, 11 runs in 3 games is just LIGHTING IT UP!

Did Griffey drive in 11 runs himself this weekend? Sure seemed like it...

But hey, we have Brian Anderson, so who needs Griffey?

Seriously, Anderson might turn out to be a good player. Hell, I hope he's a great player for this team for years to come. But trying to reason that we'd be better off with Anderson for the rest of the year instead of Griffey is absurd.

mcp5185
08-29-2005, 12:21 PM
I don't see the big deal in getting Griffey. He's hitting unbelievably, but what is he going to be like facing AL pitching? That's one hell of an adjustment, especially with 4 weeks left.

Brian Anderson should be given a chance. Nobody has the book on him yet, and he could be lightning in a bottle in September and October. If Griffey comes to Chicago, he'll be pounded with tons of expectations, and you never know how he'll perform in that environment. Anderson's just out there having fun, playing loose, and that means a lot.

The biggest reason I want Griffey is for his presence in the lineup. Ever since Frank went down there is really no one in this lineup the other teams have to fear.

siugrad25
08-29-2005, 12:30 PM
Not like I really put much stock into what Levineline says, but I left my car just before he was supposed to be on with Silvy and Carmen on 1000. I just wondered if he had anything new to report. Thankfully Wednesday's deadline is only a couple days away and I won't have to worry about checking out stuff to see if anything happened.

Flight #24
08-29-2005, 12:46 PM
Not like I really put much stock into what Levineline says, but I left my car just before he was supposed to be on with Silvy and Carmen on 1000. I just wondered if he had anything new to report. Thankfully Wednesday's deadline is only a couple days away and I won't have to worry about checking out stuff to see if anything happened.

He backtracked on the "Griffey won't come" comments, and admitted that while Jr did say that, he also said "no one's come to me, I'll consider it if it comes".

He also said that it's all dependent on Griffey coming out and saying "I want to go to the AL so that I can play for 4 or so more years and DH part time to save my legs". Reds management doesn't want to take the hit for trading him, they want him to come out and say it first. He reiterated that the Sox upped the $$$ they're willing to take on. No mention of whether or not the Reds think the deal currently on the table is worth taking if Griffey does indeed come out for a trade.

IMO If he's right, it's not getting done. I don't see Griffey coming out publicly wiht a statement like that. I think he'd do it privately, but he doesn't seem to me like a guy that would make a public statement like that. Just my opinion of his character from what I've seen/read. Hopefully KW can work some magic to change his mind. I would hope that they're using Frank and the relationship he has with Griffey to move him on this issue.

oeo
08-29-2005, 12:54 PM
IMO If he's right, it's not getting done. I don't see Griffey coming out publicly wiht a statement like that. I think he'd do it privately, but he doesn't seem to me like a guy that would make a public statement like that. Just my opinion of his character from what I've seen/read. Hopefully KW can work some magic to change his mind. I would hope that they're using Frank and the relationship he has with Griffey to move him on this issue.

Why wouldn't he come out publicly? He said no one has to come to him about a trade when reporters are all over him, asking him if he's going to be traded. He's asked the question, he's saying what he knows and he does not know if he's going to be traded.

Flight #24
08-29-2005, 01:07 PM
Why wouldn't he come out publicly? He said no one has to come to him about a trade when reporters are all over him, asking him if he's going to be traded. He's asked the question, he's saying what he knows and he does not know if he's going to be traded.

I mean if the Reds management won't trade him unless Griffey says "I want to be traded" publicly.....IMO that ain't happening. I do think that he might go to them and privately say "I'd like to go somewhere to win", but I don't see him saying that publicly.

Clarkdog
08-29-2005, 01:28 PM
Why wouldn't he come out publicly? He said no one has to come to him about a trade when reporters are all over him, asking him if he's going to be traded. He's asked the question, he's saying what he knows and he does not know if he's going to be traded.

The way this is being handled is like a monkey humping a football. It just doesn't make sense. And it is either Reds Management or the Chicago Media, my guess is the latter.

If the Sox indeed made this rumored bigger offer I simply cannot believe that the Reds turned it aside. KW is one of the great overpayers in the history of the MLB - and he already knew he was going to overpay here. The Sox have a need now. Griffey is hot now. Why would the Reds ever turn down the deal? They will never get as much in terms of salary relief or talent during the offseason from anyone else. At the winter meetings, the cloud of doubt about whether Griffey can stay healthy will reenter the equation, and no team with have a need of this immediacy.

So why hasn't Griffey been informed of anything so he can choose whether to accept the trade or not? If there is no deal, Bruce Levine's credibility as a reporter is severely damaged. But why put yourself out there on a story like this unless you have a source you completely trust? There is the fact that there is still an open spot on the 40 man roster. Why leave it open unless you planning on filling it from the outside?

Or the Reds have passed on the offer again. Which as an airchair GM, I simply can not figure outside of the major PR hit you would take and need to address. This deal will never get sweeter for them.

Either way someone will end up looking stupid come September 1.

Letmehearya
08-29-2005, 01:40 PM
The biggest reason I want Griffey is for his presence in the lineup. Ever since Frank went down there is really no one in this lineup the other teams have to fear.

Bingo!!! I've been harping for a while that we haven't replaced Frank. There's no true #3 hitter here. Rowand? No. Carl? No. Dye/Uribe/Crede/AJ? No. The deal makes sense for both clubs but I too am growing tired of it. Go Get Ibanez if he's available. He's not Junior, but he's better than what we've got.

Flight #24
08-29-2005, 01:44 PM
The way this is being handled is like a monkey humping a football. It just doesn't make sense. And it is either Reds Management or the Chicago Media, my guess is the latter.



IMO there's too much crap flying around from too many sources for there not to be SOMETHING here. That leads me to believe it's Reds management with their heads up their collective rear ends. Management wants the deal, ownership did not. Then as ownership starts to come around, Griffey goes off at the plate, making the PR hit from any trade that much greater. So the word goes out "we'll trade him if he asks for a trade", putting the onus on Ken.

Hopefully, he recognizes an opportunity to get a ring and extend his career in the AL.

SoxSpeed22
08-29-2005, 01:52 PM
Until this is over:
:whoflungpoo:bong:

pdimas
08-29-2005, 02:01 PM
Don't know if anyone else heard this but this morning on ESPN1000 (around 730) they mentioned that Kenny Williams was trying to get a deal done today that would bring Griffey to the Sox.

HotelWhiteSox
08-29-2005, 02:05 PM
Last night there was actually a White Sox reference on Sportscenter *shock*, but it was a graphic that said "Ken Griffey Jr. denies reports that he will be traded to the White Sox" :whiner:

Then again, it's ESPN, I think we're going to hear all the back and forth stuff til the deadline

Paulwny
08-29-2005, 02:10 PM
The biggest reason I want Griffey is for his presence in the lineup. Ever since Frank went down there is really no one in this lineup the other teams have to fear.

Agree, also, the sox players must realize that a big bat is needed. Scoring runs against #1 and #2 starters in the play-offs won't be easy. Obtaining Griffey would give the players a mental lift, the feeling that management is going all out to win a ws.

Randar68
08-29-2005, 02:14 PM
Bingo!!! I've been harping for a while that we haven't replaced Frank. There's no true #3 hitter here. Rowand? No. Carl? No. Dye/Uribe/Crede/AJ? No. The deal makes sense for both clubs but I too am growing tired of it. Go Get Ibanez if he's available. He's not Junior, but he's better than what we've got.

When has there been? I've been saying this since I was all over trading for Helton in late May, all the way through the various Helton and Griffey rumors, even dating back to wanting to trade Maggs for Andruw Jones or Nick Johnson last year.

But hey, why would we do any of those things? We're set, right?

1917
08-29-2005, 02:28 PM
Unless a miracle happens, then this won't....Steve Stone was saying on the Score that every paper in Ohio has the Reds Management quoating that there is no way they are going to trade Griffey.....Stone seems set in stone (no pun intended) that this is not going to happen.....But I believe in Miracles

Flight #24
08-29-2005, 02:31 PM
Unless a miracle happens, then this won't....Steve Stone was saying on the Score that every paper in Ohio has the Reds Management quoating that there is no way they are going to trade Griffey.....Stone seems set in stone (no pun intended) that this is not going to happen.....But I believe in Miracles

FWIW, I heard that same bit, and it was apparent that Stone doesn't know crap. He was reciting the same old tired quote from Griffey "I'm not going to Chicago", and apparently was completely unaware that he followed that up with "No one's approached me about a trade, if they do, I'll consider it".

Not saying a deal will happen, but Stone doesn't know crap. He's excellent at game analysis, but IMO he's not got significantly better sources for "scoops" than various WSIers.

Domeshot17
08-29-2005, 05:27 PM
1 day 7 hours and 45 minutes.......

Which is more like a good 20 hours because pulling a deal off at 1150 pm august 31 would not leave enough time to get griffeys approval and get him on the 25 man roster. The more I have read though, the More I wonder WHY we did not make a run at Helton. While all would agree he would take a drop outside of Coors, would any of of us not take his splits outside of coors which would translate to about 298 30 homers 40 doubles 110 RBI and GOLD GLOVE D at first. He would shift Paulie to DH and Carl becomes what he is bes suited for, 4th OF and a DH versus Left Handers while PK would play first. Helton could then play first if Paulie walked, and I am sure CO would love to get out from under his contract. The man is hitting over 350 since the all star break and the main reason his power numbers are down is he struggled playing hurt, but his hitting over over 330 since coming off the DL. Lefty Hitter, Big Time average and power, He would have been IDEAL.

mdep524
08-29-2005, 05:34 PM
1 day 7 hours and 45 minutes.......

Which is more like a good 20 hours because pulling a deal off at 1150 pm august 31 would not leave enough time to get griffeys approval and get him on the 25 man roster. The more I have read though, the More I wonder WHY we did not make a run at Helton. While all would agree he would take a drop outside of Coors, would any of of us not take his splits outside of coors which would translate to about 298 30 homers 40 doubles 110 RBI and GOLD GLOVE D at first. He would shift Paulie to DH and Carl becomes what he is bes suited for, 4th OF and a DH versus Left Handers while PK would play first. Helton could then play first if Paulie walked, and I am sure CO would love to get out from under his contract. The man is hitting over 350 since the all star break and the main reason his power numbers are down is he struggled playing hurt, but his hitting over over 330 since coming off the DL. Lefty Hitter, Big Time average and power, He would have been IDEAL. :cheers: Good point, Domeshot. Some of us were big proponents of looking into a Helton deal a few months ago- who knows if KW ever explored it. His contract is insane- even more so than Griffey- but logical arguments were made as to how it would be very reasonable for the Sox if Colorado ate a significant chunk of the deal.

Ol' No. 2
08-29-2005, 05:36 PM
:cheers: Good point, Domeshot. Some of us were big proponents of looking into a Helton deal a few months ago- who knows if KW ever explored it. His contract is insane- even more so than Griffey- but logical arguments were made as to how it would be very reasonable for the Sox if Colorado ate a significant chunk of the deal.That's a big if. I'd be surprised if Kenny didn't at least call to ask. I suspect the answer wasn't very satisfactory.

Flight #24
08-29-2005, 06:24 PM
That's a big if. I'd be surprised if Kenny didn't at least call to ask. I suspect the answer wasn't very satisfactory.

Yeah. As a Helton proponent, I can say with some certainty, that the deal is big enough that even with Colorado eating a lot of $$$, it's still pretty big & long. At least Griffey's deferrals and 3-year length make that commitment manageable.

As for the Griffey approval impacting deal timing, I've seen a number of things that make it seem as if the only thing that will make this happen is if Griffey comes out publicly for a trade, taking the onus off of Reds management from a PR perspective. In that case, he'd pretty much OK the deal immediately without needing the full 48hrs.

But if that is the case, I'm not sure it gets done. Which would be a shame - management not making a deal they think makes baseball sense because they're afraid of the PR hit from pulling the trigger.

Letmehearya
08-29-2005, 06:26 PM
Agree, also, the sox players must realize that a big bat is needed. Scoring runs against #1 and #2 starters in the play-offs won't be easy. Obtaining Griffey would give the players a mental lift, the feeling that management is going all out to win a ws.

The observation about management going all out is right on target. I remember many years ago at the All-Star break a certain shortstop named Ozzie Guillen ripped management for not making trades to help the team. The quote referred to the Sox bringing back Minnie Minoso whereas other teams went out and plugged in holes.

Ol' No. 2
08-29-2005, 06:30 PM
The observation about management going all out is right on target. I remember many years ago at the All-Star break a certain shortstop named Ozzie Guillen ripped management for not making trades to help the team. The quote referred to the Sox bringing back Minnie Minoso whereas other teams went out and plugged in holes.Getting Griffey would be an immense psychological lift for the team. But I don't agree that NOT getting him is a negative. None of the other teams have done anything this year, either. This has to have been the slowest trading deadline in years.

Domeshot17
08-29-2005, 07:24 PM
Just as the true Cubs fan he is, Bruce Levine as flopped again. On Comcast just about 5 minutes ago Levine said its dead, Citing that Linder won't make a move to prevent the new ownership from coming in. He said he doesnt expect KW to get an average bat ( I am assuming that meant Burnitz-Ibanez etc ) because he is content with Dye and Everett, that if he makes a deal in next few days, it will be for a super star only. The pannel kicked around The Sox picking up Nomar, who the cubs seem ready to let walk. While I in no way would ever put him at 3rd, might not be a horrible idea with Crede going on the DL, and Shifting Uribe to 3b.

The Dude
08-29-2005, 07:28 PM
Just as the true Cubs fan he is, Bruce Levine as flopped again. On Comcast just about 5 minutes ago Levine said its dead, Citing that Linder won't make a move to prevent the new ownership from coming in. He said he doesnt expect KW to get an average bat ( I am assuming that meant Burnitz-Ibanez etc ) because he is content with Dye and Everett, that if he makes a deal in next few days, it will be for a super star only. The pannel kicked around The Sox picking up Nomar, who the cubs seem ready to let walk. While I in no way would ever put him at 3rd, might not be a horrible idea with Crede going on the DL, and Shifting Uribe to 3b.

I caught the end of that report by levineline. I thought I heard the end of a comment that a top front office guy with the Sox doesn't think our team is world series caliber yet. Anyone else hear this??

nedlug
08-29-2005, 07:31 PM
Just as the true Cubs fan he is, Bruce Levine as flopped again. On Comcast just about 5 minutes ago Levine said its dead, Citing that Linder won't make a move to prevent the new ownership from coming in. He said he doesnt expect KW to get an average bat ( I am assuming that meant Burnitz-Ibanez etc ) because he is content with Dye and Everett, that if he makes a deal in next few days, it will be for a super star only. The pannel kicked around The Sox picking up Nomar, who the cubs seem ready to let walk. While I in no way would ever put him at 3rd, might not be a horrible idea with Crede going on the DL, and Shifting Uribe to 3b.

Who's got the "ARGH! My eyes!" graphic????

Unregistered
08-29-2005, 07:39 PM
The pannel kicked around The Sox picking up Nomar, who the cubs seem ready to let walk. While I in no way would ever put him at 3rd, might not be a horrible idea with Crede going on the DL, and Shifting Uribe to 3b.
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lths06
08-29-2005, 07:48 PM
http://www.geocities.com/officespacemovie/Pictures/thegang.jpg
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Agreed. We don't need any more "banged up guys", espically from the North Side of town.

TheOldRoman
08-29-2005, 07:55 PM
His contract is insane- even more so than Griffey
Griffey's contract is not insane. It is very reasonable. Sure, he is a health risk, but he is making $12mil a year, half of which is deferred. We paid Magglio $12mil a year under his last contract, and when Griffey is healthy, he is twice the player Ordonez is (was).

TaylorStSox
08-29-2005, 07:58 PM
Griffey's contract is not insane. It is very reasonable. Sure, he is a health risk, but he is making $12mil a year, half of which is deferred. We paid Magglio $12mil a year under his last contract, and when Griffey is healthy, he is twice the player Ordonez is (was).

A guy who's played 1 full season in 5 years is more than a just a "health risk."

A. Cavatica
08-29-2005, 08:15 PM
The observation about management going all out is right on target. I remember many years ago at the All-Star break a certain shortstop named Ozzie Guillen ripped management for not making trades to help the team. The quote referred to the Sox bringing back Minnie Minoso whereas other teams went out and plugged in holes.

Is Minoso available? I would rather have him than Timo.

TheOldRoman
08-29-2005, 08:39 PM
A guy who's played 1 full season in 5 years is more than a just a "health risk."
And a player who spent the first half of the season on the DL due to a "hernia" who's knee is being held together with duct tape is more of a health risk, IMO. Griffey has been very unlucky with his injuries, they were all freak injuries, all unrelated. Ordonez has an injury that will hurt him the rest of his career (2 years? 3 years?). My point was, Griffey is making what we paid Magglio last year, and he is a much much better player than Ordonez is or ever was.

SOX ADDICT '73
08-29-2005, 08:49 PM
Bruce Levine's credibility as a reporter is severely damaged.
This is news!

Chicago83
08-29-2005, 10:01 PM
:(:Griffey's contract is not insane. It is very reasonable. Sure, he is a health risk, but he is making $12mil a year, half of which is deferred. We paid Magglio $12mil a year under his last contract, and when Griffey is healthy, he is twice the player Ordonez is (was).

Are you drinking? No way Griffey is twice the player as Maggs, not even the griffey of the late 90's was that good. Maggs is a 30 HR .300 AVG guy. Griffey is good for about 35 HR if he is healthy. Also at this point I would say Mags is as good of a fielder.

Black Sox
08-29-2005, 10:22 PM
:(:

Are you drinking? No way Griffey is twice the player as Maggs, not even the griffey of the late 90's was that good. Maggs is a 30 HR .300 AVG guy. Griffey is good for about 35 HR if he is healthy. Also at this point I would say Mags is as good of a fielder.

Well, if we're talking in the 90's then I'd say that could be an accurate assesment. Griff was a fifty to sixty homerun threat back then. That's about two times the thirty homeruns Maggs would generate. Making him half the player. Plus Maggs has never owned a gold glove. But was he ever twice the player? No. Maggs was an all-star in his own right. Its hard to be twice of that. But Griffey was no doubt the 1 or 1A(Bonds) player of the 90's.

Black Sox
08-29-2005, 10:26 PM
Is Minoso available? I would rather have him than Timo.

Agreed. Ozzie keeps trotting him out there. I'd rather have Brian Anderson on the playoff roster than Timo. The way the ball explodes off of Anderson's bat reminds me of Miguel Cabrera's bat during the playoffs in 2003. Just a wishful thought.