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TornLabrum
08-17-2005, 03:55 PM
Mary Kay sent letters asking about nine players. None replied.

They have all received information that the purpose of our group is to raise funds for kids with cancer.

I will make no comment one way or the other.

patbooyah
08-17-2005, 04:01 PM
loosely hijacking this thread, but still tying into the common theme-

have you guys noticed that they added a bench on the top level of the dugout?

it has been confirmed by a "source" that this was done to give the players a better view of women in the stands. after three games in the scout seats, i can tell you that there are a number of "players/coaches" who spend 80% of the game looking for women. can anyone tell me if the installation of this bench coincides with the teams downward spiral at home?

to bring it back round to torn's post- i really hope their success hasn't gone to their heads.

cause blowing off requests for the cancer fundraiser much more infuriating than popping out.

DaleJRFan
08-17-2005, 04:02 PM
loosely hijacking this thread, but still tying into the common theme-

have you guys noticed that they added a bench on the top level of the dugout?

it has been confirmed by a "source" that this was done to give the players a better view of women in the stands. after three games in the scout seats, i can tell you that there are a number of "players/coaches" who spend 80% of the game looking for women. can anyone tell me if the installation of this bench coincides with the teams downward spiral at home?

i really hope their success hasn't gone to their heads.

I sooo want to be a ball player.

TornLabrum
08-17-2005, 04:13 PM
loosely hijacking this thread, but still tying into the common theme-

have you guys noticed that they added a bench on the top level of the dugout?

it has been confirmed by a "source" that this was done to give the players a better view of women in the stands. after three games in the scout seats, i can tell you that there are a number of "players/coaches" who spend 80% of the game looking for women. can anyone tell me if the installation of this bench coincides with the teams downward spiral at home?

to bring it back round to torn's post- i really hope their success hasn't gone to their heads.

cause blowing off requests for the cancer fundraiser much more infuriating than popping out.

I heard from a reliable source who was there that several players were at an autograph session at a downtown store last week. According to my source, the players talked among themselves and didn't bother to even look at the people they were signing for, let alone say, "You're welcome." One player was heard saying to another, "Go on ebay Monday and you'll find this stuff for sale."

As far as our event goes, there is talk now that we may disband the club if we can't get the players to do the luncheons. Over the ten years we've been around, we've donated something like $70,000 to Chicago Baseball Cancer Charities. This year we have more members than we've ever had: 226 as of last week. Each luncheon clears around $1000 (or more) for our charity. Each of the past three years we've donated $10,000. So losing this luncheon probably cost us 10% of our donation to CBCC.

All of our money above expenses is earmarked for Children's Memorial Hospital. All of us on the board are volunteers. We all pay for our own admissions to the events we attend...and then we work at them, too. It's diheartening to see something like that blown off by the players.

Rocky Soprano
08-17-2005, 04:18 PM
loosely hijacking this thread, but still tying into the common theme-

have you guys noticed that they added a bench on the top level of the dugout?

it has been confirmed by a "source" that this was done to give the players a better view of women in the stands. after three games in the scout seats, i can tell you that there are a number of "players/coaches" who spend 80% of the game looking for women. can anyone tell me if the installation of this bench coincides with the teams downward spiral at home?


Those benches have been there for a while now.

Per Reifert's blog:

The biggest news pregame was the installation of five benches on the steps of the dugouts. Players were busy trying out their new digs, which will allow them to sit on the benches and lean onto the railing of the dugout.

ewokpelts
08-17-2005, 04:22 PM
Have you guys tried contacting Ozzie Or Jerry about this?

Gene

thepaulbowski
08-17-2005, 04:25 PM
I heard from a reliable source who was there that several players were at an autograph session at a downtown store last week. According to my source, the players talked among themselves and didn't bother to even look at the people they were signing for, let alone say, "You're welcome." One player was heard saying to another, "Go on ebay Monday and you'll find this stuff for sale."

As far as our event goes, there is talk now that we may disband the club if we can't get the players to do the luncheons. Over the ten years we've been around, we've donated something like $70,000 to Chicago Baseball Cancer Charities. This year we have more members than we've ever had: 226 as of last week. Each luncheon clears around $1000 (or more) for our charity. Each of the past three years we've donated $10,000. So losing this luncheon probably cost us 10% of our donation to CBCC.

All of our money above expenses is earmarked for Children's Memorial Hospital. All of us on the board are volunteers. We all pay for our own admissions to the events we attend...and then we work at them, too. It's diheartening to see something like that blown off by the players.

Maybe you should go to Reifert's blog and make these comments. It may get somebody's attention.

TornLabrum
08-17-2005, 04:43 PM
Have you guys tried contacting Ozzie Or Jerry about this?

Gene

Jerry Reinsdorf came to the first luncehon in June. Ozzie did, too. Brooks Boyer came to the July luncheon, as did Brooks Boyer. Unfortunately Sox management apparently can't help us secure players. Brooks tried like hell earlier this week to get someone but was unable to.

Ol' No. 2
08-17-2005, 04:45 PM
Have you guys tried contacting Ozzie Or Jerry about this?

GeneOr (dare I suggest it?) Brooks Boyer?

HITMEN OF 77
08-17-2005, 04:46 PM
One player was heard saying to another, "Go on ebay Monday and you'll find this stuff for sale."

Sadly, this is 99.89% true. I have to agree with the players, they sign all these autographs for people, just so they can go and try to sell it on the internet. I'd be upset too.

TornLabrum
08-17-2005, 04:50 PM
Sadly, this is 99.89% true. I have to agree with the players, they sign all these autographs for people, just so they can go and try to sell it on the internet. I'd be upset too.

The things our people get signed go to our annual raffle to raise funds for our charity.

HITMEN OF 77
08-17-2005, 04:53 PM
The things our people get signed go to our annual raffle to raise funds for our charity.

I know your stuff goes to a good cause. I was thinking of people that go to the signings at sports stores, at the games and Soxfest.

TornLabrum
08-17-2005, 04:56 PM
I know your stuff goes to a good cause. I was thinking of people that go to the signings at sports stores, at the games and Soxfest.

Some of our people were at that signing, so they were a bit upset. It's a lot of fun watching our membership get autographs at the luncheons (when I get a chance...I'm often working at the "sign-in" table in the lobby while that's going on). Lifelong Sox fans, their kids, etc.

steff
08-17-2005, 04:58 PM
Hal this sucks and I'm sorry to hear it. I'd go straight to the top if I were Mary Kay. It can't hurt.

ewokpelts
08-17-2005, 05:00 PM
Sadly, this is 99.89% true. I have to agree with the players, they sign all these autographs for people, just so they can go and try to sell it on the internet. I'd be upset too.
Yeah, But at the same time, they are paid appearance fees. The event last week was a fundraiser, but you know they got paid. 99.9% of all player appearances(be they active or retired) are paid appearances. While it sucks that people get these autos just to sell, the players arent doing this for free...infact, they get well paid for it....my stepdad's card store has been trying to secure a player or two to appears at the store, and the avg asking price is 5grand for two hours of work.
Gene

HITMEN OF 77
08-17-2005, 05:01 PM
Some of our people were at that signing, so they were a bit upset. It's a lot of fun watching our membership get autographs at the luncheons (when I get a chance...I'm often working at the "sign-in" table in the lobby while that's going on). Lifelong Sox fans, their kids, etc.

I think often times, the players forget that some of the items that get autographed do go to a good charity event like WCSF luncheon and your banquets, but in there minds most of the stuff ends up on eBay.

TornLabrum
08-17-2005, 05:20 PM
Yeah, But at the same time, they are paid appearance fees. The event last week was a fundraiser, but you know they got paid. 99.9% of all player appearances(be they active or retired) are paid appearances. While it sucks that people get these autos just to sell, the players arent doing this for free...infact, they get well paid for it....my stepdad's card store has been trying to secure a player or two to appears at the store, and the avg asking price is 5grand for two hours of work.
Gene

Unfortunately what you're saying may be part of the problem for us. We can't pay the players. We give them a free meal (and the food from the Polo Cafe is terrific).

TornLabrum
08-17-2005, 05:22 PM
Hal this sucks and I'm sorry to hear it. I'd go straight to the top if I were Mary Kay. It can't hurt.

We'll probably have to discuss what to do at our next board meeting. I'd hate to have to do it since we've always done it as a thank you to our members, but we might be able to make up for the loss of this luncheon by charging a little more at our holiday party. At least we've never had problems getting any of the former players for that!

Brian26
08-17-2005, 05:24 PM
Hal-

Are you referring to the Madison & Friends signing a couple of Saturday's ago?
If so, there was a $35 donation per person to go through the autograph line. So, as Ewok said, the players are getting an appearance fee, and at the same time the fans are paying for the autographs...they aren't exactly free.

HITMEN OF 77
08-17-2005, 05:26 PM
Do the players get paid to attend Soxfest?

TornLabrum
08-17-2005, 05:41 PM
Hal-

Are you referring to the Madison & Friends signing a couple of Saturday's ago?
If so, there was a $35 donation per person to go through the autograph line. So, as Ewok said, the players are getting an appearance fee, and at the same time the fans are paying for the autographs...they aren't exactly free.

I'm getting confused here, or maybe I'm confusing the issue for others, so I'll try to break things down what I'm hearing and saying.

First, I'm not sure what the signing was. I do know it involved several Sox players. Several people I knew were there, including people from the club who were getting jerseys, etc. signed for our raffle. (They'll probably be doing the same thing at Picnic at the Park.) I do know that our people paid to get the autographs and that the players were being paid for signing...or I at least assumed the latter. (BTW, when our people pay, they do so out of pocket, not with club funds.)

When we have players at our luncheon, they appear for free and sign autographs. We're a charity operating on a relatively small budget (as evidenced by our bank account, which generally starts the year at a couple of thousand and ends up with enough to make a donation of about $10,000). So we make the players honorary members (I guess you could say whether they want to be or not), send them a membership packet with a letter of introduction, and feed them if they donate an hour and a half or so of their time.

Our "autograph fee," if you want to call it that, is the difference between our cost per plate and the admission price, which is about $15.00 per plate. We pick up the costs of any meals for the players and their guests, if any. (Scott Podsednik brought a friend of his from CA to the July luncheon, Ozzie has brought one or more of his boys in the past, etc.) That extra per plate becomes part of our donation to CBCC.

I think maybe I wasn't clear and you were confusing what I was talking about with our luncheons with the autograph session the people I know attended.

patbooyah
08-17-2005, 09:25 PM
Those benches have been there for a while now.

Per Reifert's blog:

The biggest news pregame was the installation of five benches on the steps of the dugouts. Players were busy trying out their new digs, which will allow them to sit on the benches and lean onto the railing of the dugout.

those benches have been there since july 19th.

according to my calculations, the white sox were 31-15 pre benches, and are 5-10 post benches.

SpammySosa
08-17-2005, 09:45 PM
At least we've never had problems getting any of the former players for that!

From the time I read the first post,I was curious why WCSF couldn't get a former player for the luncheon,as opposed to a current one.With many ex-Sox living in the area(including ones dedicated to charitable causes such as Kittle,Pierce,etc),I was wondering why it wasn't an option.

BainesHOF
08-17-2005, 09:46 PM
Are you referring to the Madison & Friends signing a couple of Saturday's ago? If so, there was a $35 donation per person to go through the autograph line. So, as Ewok said, the players are getting an appearance fee, and at the same time the fans are paying for the autographs...they aren't exactly free.

Just to shed a little light on this signing...It benefitted the Ronald McDonald House. Six players attended - Pierzynski, Rowand, Konerko, Politte, Dye and Crede. A $35 donation got you all six players. The signing lasted two hours. The line was pretty long and, as anyone familar with autograph lines would expect, the line moved slowly. I know the store stopped selling tickets at one point because it wasn't known how many people would get through the line. If all of the $35 fee went to the Ronald McDonald House, it received a decent donation. But if the six players did receive a fee, I can't imagine there being much money left over for charity. I assumed that the players had to be donating their time in this case, or I don't think the signing would have made much sense from a charity standpoint. To tell you the truth, I was very surprised six players showed. Three probably would have drawn the same crowd. I figured one of the players rounded up the rest for charity.

I was slightly bothered by my experience at the signing. I'm a serious collector of Sox memorabilia and brought five game used bats to be signed. A couple of them questioned where I got them and I was looked at funny. I got the bats from the Sox Garage Sale, and paid pretty good money at that, to a charity event no less. I would hope that the players realize by now that you can acquire equipment through legitimate means directly through the Sox. Heck, even the team's website continues to auction of game-used items for charity throughout the season. I will add that all of the players signed the bats so I don't want to come off like I'm complaining too much. I just thought I'd give you an idea about what the signing was like.

In any case, it's too bad players look at fans suspiciously. Sure, some sell autographs, but most fans just want a brush with greatness and a cool collectable. Even for those who might sell items, it's really not worth it by the time you factor in time spent waiting and the actual cost of attending an event. Unless you're a true superstar, your autograph really isn't worth too much. And when it comes down to it, why would a person making millions of dollars care if some pocket change was being made on the side, especially if the signing is benefitting a charity in the first place.

It's sad to hear that the long-time luncheon had to be cancelled. It's a poor reflection on the players, and I'm afraid a sign of the times.

LuvSox
08-17-2005, 09:48 PM
I'm interested to find out why no players wanted to attend. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, for now.

A lot of us do charity work, some of us don't have nearly the free time of a ballplayer.


(Yes, I understand they spend a lot of time involved with the team outside of the actual game.)

Brian26
08-17-2005, 09:52 PM
I think maybe I wasn't clear and you were confusing what I was talking about with our luncheons with the autograph session the people I know attended.

No, you were clear, and I understood the entire situation perfectly.

I was curious if you were talking about the August 6th Madison & Friends event (Dye, PK, Politte, Crede, AJ and Rowand were scheduled to be there). I was considering going, but something came up and I ended up skipping it. I believe there was a $35 donation to actually get into the store (per person) and go through the autograph line. IF the players were indeed acting that way, I'm glad I didn't go. That's a big IF though.

Brian26
08-17-2005, 09:58 PM
Just to shed a little light on this signing...It benefitted the Ronald McDonald House. Six players attended - Pierzynski, Rowand, Konerko, Politte, Dye and Crede. A $35 donation got you all six players. The signing lasted two hours. The line was pretty long and, as anyone familar with autograph lines would expect, the line moved slowly. I know the store stopped selling tickets at one point because it wasn't known how many people would get through the line. If all of the $35 fee went to the Ronald McDonald House, it received a decent donation. But if the six players did receive a fee, I can't imagine there being much money left over for charity. I assumed that the players had to be donating their time in this case, or I don't think the signing would have made much sense from a charity standpoint. To tell you the truth, I was very surprised six players showed. Three probably would have drawn the same crowd. I figured one of the players rounded up the rest for charity.

I was slightly bothered by my experience at the signing. I'm a serious collector of Sox memorabilia and brought five game used bats to be signed. A couple of them questioned where I got them and I was looked at funny. I got the bats from the Sox Garage Sale, and paid pretty good money at that, to a charity event no less. I would hope that the players realize by now that you can acquire equipment through legitimate means directly through the Sox. Heck, even the team's website continues to auction of game-used items for charity throughout the season. I will add that all of the players signed the bats so I don't want to come off like I'm complaining too much. I just thought I'd give you an idea about what the signing was like.

In any case, it's too bad players look at fans suspiciously. Sure, some sell autographs, but most fans just want a brush with greatness and a cool collectable. Even for those who might sell items, it's really not worth it by the time you factor in time spent waiting and the actual cost of attending an event. Unless you're a true superstar, your autograph really isn't worth too much. And when it comes down to it, why would a person making millions of dollars care if some pocket change was being made on the side, especially if the signing is benefitting a charity in the first place.

It's sad to hear that the long-time luncheon had to be cancelled. It's a poor reflection on the players, and I'm afraid a sign of the times.

Thanks for the excellent recap. I had actually mentioned this event to Wilkes since he lives downtown too. I think we both have all of these guys autographs from Soxfest, so we kicked around the idea of bringing bats to get signed. Wow, I'm glad that didn't happen.

Anyone who watches Ebay knows that signed stuff without a certificate of authenticity really doesn't go for much money. I enjoy getting autographs for the sake of having a collectible and a keepsake. I just can't imagine going through all of the work of getting an autograph in person and then trying to sell it on Ebay for, honestly, very little profit.

Mr. N Paul Todd
08-17-2005, 10:00 PM
Sorry, but all of this is making me very cynical and depressed all-of-the-sudden-like. :(:

TornLabrum
08-17-2005, 10:08 PM
From the time I read the first post,I was curious why WCSF couldn't get a former player for the luncheon,as opposed to a current one.With many ex-Sox living in the area(including ones dedicated to charitable causes such as Kittle,Pierce,etc),I was wondering why it wasn't an option.

Kittle was actually asked, but he had another commitment. At least he bothered to reply! Pierce was at the July luncheon. (I sat next to him for lunch--talk about a thrill for an OF like me!)

Brian26
08-17-2005, 10:18 PM
Interesting little note about Kittle- I believe he is now officially back on the White Sox payroll (in the same roll as Melton, Skowron, Pierce, Minoso)...sort of a PR/goodwill ambassador.

LuvSox
08-17-2005, 10:21 PM
Interesting little note about Kittle- I believe he is now officially back on the White Sox payroll (in the same roll as Melton, Skowron, Pierce, Minoso)...sort of a PR/goodwill ambassador.

That's great. He was such a big hero in Northwest Indiana back-in-the-day, even as coach of the Merrillville Mud Dogs.

TornLabrum
08-17-2005, 10:27 PM
Sorry, but all of this is making me very cynical and depressed all-of-the-sudden-like. :(:

We used to be able to get the likes of Ozzie, Harold, Robin, Alex Fernandez, Roberto Hernandez, Wilson Alvarez, etc. Mike Sirotka did a luncheon. Believe it or not, Jaime Navarro did two luncheons and didn't get booed at either of them.

The WCSF is the most supportive group of fans, you'd ever want to meet. That's why I'm so depressed about this.

TornLabrum
08-17-2005, 10:28 PM
That's great. He was such a big hero in Northwest Indiana back-in-the-day, even as coach of the Merrillville Mud Dogs.

I taught in Gary when Kittle was playing at Wirt. Unfortunately I never got a chance to see him play there.

SpammySosa
08-17-2005, 10:29 PM
Interesting little note about Kittle- I believe he is now officially back on the White Sox payroll (in the same roll as Melton, Skowron, Pierce, Minoso)...sort of a PR/goodwill ambassador.
That's what he was saying at a book signing I went to.He also said he was working with Billy Pierce on the White Sox Alumni Association.He was in the process of telling us about that when he got a call from Greg Walker and couldn't figure out how to use his cell phone.:tongue: I think it's great how many former Sox are back with the team in one capacity or another-now if we can get Pudge,Robin and Blackjack next...

Andy T Clown
08-17-2005, 10:36 PM
Hal,
Thanks for the great work for Childrens Memorial Hospital. my wife is a nurse there, and whenever I think I have a bad day at work, I listen to how her night went and I count my blessings.

I can undestand how a multi-millionaire ballplayer in his 20's may be a bit cocky, but a night with sick children should humble anyone.

LuvSox
08-17-2005, 10:43 PM
I taught in Gary when Kittle was playing at Wirt.w Unfortunately I never got a chance to see him play there.

No kidding? Did you live over here?

(Please excuse me for not knowing, I don't read every thread here. :D:)

TornLabrum
08-17-2005, 10:45 PM
Hal,
Thanks for the great work for Childrens Memorial Hospital. my wife is a nurse there, and whenever I think I have a bad day at work, I listen to how her night went and I count my blessings.

I can undestand how a multi-millionaire ballplayer in his 20's may be a bit cocky, but a night with sick children should humble anyone.

One of the most gratifying things about this being our tenth anniversary year is that I've had a chance to interview a couple of the kids who have received care at Children's. One was a 10-year-old girl the hospital referred us to (BIG Sox fans). She had been receiving treatment for a year or so and was then in remission. The other was an 8-year-old boy who was diagnosed with Hodgkins lymphoma in March. He is the grandson of one of our longtime members. He was told in June that he is cancer free.

They do great work at Children's. The parents of these kids couldn't praise the staff there enough. That's enough for me to want to keep doing something to help them in some small way.

TornLabrum
08-17-2005, 10:46 PM
No kidding? Did you live over here?

(Please excuse me for not knowing, I don't read every thread here. :D:)

I lived there between 1973-76. My first teaching job was at West Side. I lived in Miller for a year or so. The rest of the time I lived in Hessville.

LuvSox
08-17-2005, 10:48 PM
I lived there between 1973-76. My first teaching job was at West Side. I lived in Miller for a year or so. The rest of the time I lived in Hessville.

That blows me away for some reason. Hopefully I'll get to talk to you on Sept. 8th.

TornLabrum
08-17-2005, 10:51 PM
That blows me away for some reason. Hopefully I'll get to talk to you on Sept. 8th.

You can't miss me. I look just like my picture, only moreso.

bunnybrief
08-17-2005, 11:59 PM
Anyone who watches Ebay knows that signed stuff without a certificate of authenticity really doesn't go for much money. I enjoy getting autographs for the sake of having a collectible and a keepsake. I just can't imagine going through all of the work of getting an autograph in person and then trying to sell it on Ebay for, honestly, very little profit.

It may not go for all that much money, but it sure floods the market, making it harder to obtain the real deal. There is something seriously wrong in the so-called "collectibles" market. Ebay and other auction sites are positively flooded with crap. As for autograph hounds, well some of them aren't all that on the level, as I'm sure anyone with experience in any type of "fan culture" can attest.

IowaSox1971
08-18-2005, 01:15 AM
Don't the Sox have their Field of Greens golf outing on Thursday? Isn't that a charity event, too? I imagine that some players are going to that. And now these players also are expected to go to another charity event on Friday?

Look, I'm all for people helping to raise money for charitable causes. But I also want to see the White Sox start winning games again. This is a tired team, and it was a tired team even before the 16-inning loss the other night. So, with these guys committed to a charity event on Thursday (a rare day off during a difficult month), I would prefer that they get some rest Friday before playing the Yankees that night.

I realize the importance of raising money for cancer research, and I donate to the American Cancer Society on a regular basis. But I also realize that the baseball season can be grueling, and the players need days off every now and then. We should not get bent out of shape if a player decides to not attend an event on his day off.

TornLabrum
08-18-2005, 07:19 AM
Don't the Sox have their Field of Greens golf outing on Thursday? Isn't that a charity event, too? I imagine that some players are going to that. And now these players also are expected to go to another charity event on Friday?

Look, I'm all for people helping to raise money for charitable causes. But I also want to see the White Sox start winning games again. This is a tired team, and it was a tired team even before the 16-inning loss the other night. So, with these guys committed to a charity event on Thursday (a rare day off during a difficult month), I would prefer that they get some rest Friday before playing the Yankees that night.

I realize the importance of raising money for cancer research, and I donate to the American Cancer Society on a regular basis. But I also realize that the baseball season can be grueling, and the players need days off every now and then. We should not get bent out of shape if a player decides to not attend an event on his day off.

And that's all well and good. However, the players were given a number to call to respond. Not a single one of them did.

Brian26
08-18-2005, 09:10 AM
And that's all well and good. However, the players were given a number to call to respond. Not a single one of them did.

Hal-

From everything we've heard, this is one of the nicest bunch of guys the Sox have ever had on a team together. Of course, we've heard that before with winning teams, so who knows if it is really true. But, just curious- Is this a trend that started this year? How did the luncheon's go last year and in 2003? It sounds like you guys were getting big names all the time back in the mid 90s. Have the players been responsive recently? I'm grasping at straws here hoping that maybe this is just an isolated incident.

Did something really bad happen at the Pods luncheon last month where he would have went back and told the others guys?

ewokpelts
08-18-2005, 09:36 AM
Do the players get paid to attend Soxfest?
yes....

Gene

p.s. when sosa was on the cubs they actually had to put it in his contract to make apearances at the cubs convention.

HITMEN OF 77
08-18-2005, 10:32 AM
It may not go for all that much money, but it sure floods the market, making it harder to obtain the real deal. There is something seriously wrong in the so-called "collectibles" market. Ebay and other auction sites are positively flooded with crap. As for autograph hounds, well some of them aren't all that on the level, as I'm sure anyone with experience in any type of "fan culture" can attest.

My favorite ebay auctions are the "game used bats, used by an unknown player" and there autogrpahed by Thomas, Konerko etc.

I have no problem buying game used items on eBay. I have been for a years. If the items come with COA from the White Sox and there auto'd, I feel 99.99% confident they got them autographed at Soxfest when they bought the bat or what not. Last Soxfest when I had Konerko auto my 6 or 7 game used items of his, he just smiled at me.

Brian26
08-18-2005, 11:26 AM
Last Soxfest when I had Konerko auto my 6 or 7 game used items of his, he just smiled at me.

Were you in one of the private sessions open to season ticket holders?

HITMEN OF 77
08-18-2005, 11:37 AM
Were you in one of the private sessions open to season ticket holders?

Nope. I was the 1st person in line Sunday morning for the 1:00 Konerko signing.

Brian26
08-18-2005, 11:38 AM
Nope. I was the 1st person in line Sunday morning for the 1:00 Konerko signing.

I always thought you were allowed to only get one item signed.

TornLabrum
08-18-2005, 11:38 AM
Hal-

From everything we've heard, this is one of the nicest bunch of guys the Sox have ever had on a team together. Of course, we've heard that before with winning teams, so who knows if it is really true. But, just curious- Is this a trend that started this year? How did the luncheon's go last year and in 2003? It sounds like you guys were getting big names all the time back in the mid 90s. Have the players been responsive recently? I'm grasping at straws here hoping that maybe this is just an isolated incident.

Did something really bad happen at the Pods luncheon last month where he would have went back and told the others guys?

It has gotten more and more difficult to secure players after the White Flag trade. The worst of the bunch was Mike Caruso, who stiffed us twice, once when we had another player secured and once where Dave Wills had to tap dance through the interview segment because he had no one to interview. (I gained a lot more respect for Dave than I already had that day.)

Kelly Wunsch left us high and dry a couple of years ago purely by accident when he got the date wrong by one day. He signed 50-some pictures to try to make up for it in some way.

This is the first time no player has responded at all.

No, nothing happened at the July luncheon. In fact Podsednik commented on how great it was. Brooks also really enjoyed it, which is why he tried to get someone from the broadcasting teams to fill in.

HITMEN OF 77
08-18-2005, 11:44 AM
I always thought you were allowed to only get one item signed.

I asked permission before hand and they said "no problem" then on Sunday they went down and told the security guys I was having more than a few things signed so they would have a heads up. I thought that was very nice of them to let me do that. It may have been I spend so much at Soxfest garage sale every year or the fact that they know I come 2000 miles every year for Soxfest, I don't know. I'm just very thankful for how nice the organization has always been to me.

Palehose13
08-18-2005, 11:55 AM
Hal-

I'm sorry to hear about this. The fact that no players responded disheartens me the most. One of the things I love about this team is that they all seem like genuinely good guys. Unfortunatley I have doubts now. I'm not saying that they have to do every event proposed to them, but they should at least respond if they can't or won't.

Jerko
08-18-2005, 11:58 AM
Kind of pisses me off, especially after reading that Reds story. They could at least have returned a damn phone call. Maybe they were told not to respond, but that's still ****ty.

Brian26
08-18-2005, 12:42 PM
Kind of pisses me off, especially after reading that Reds story. They could at least have returned a damn phone call. Maybe they were told not to respond, but that's still ****ty.

There are two sides to every story.

Brian26
08-18-2005, 12:43 PM
I'm not saying that they have to do every event proposed to them, but they should at least respond if they can't or won't.

I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt right now.

hose
08-18-2005, 12:52 PM
I was planning on taking my Dad , sorry to hear it's cancelled.

With all the good people in the Sox organization I doubt these luncheons will ever cease to exist.

Do you think it's a case of so many other charitable events instead of to few willing participants?

It seems ex-players like Ron Kittle for example, have golf outings and then
add in the players wives with events and I'm sure most players have a full schedule on the few days off they have.

I'm not trying to make excuses for the ball players but how many of the Spanish speaking players with limited English would feel comfortable in front of an English speaking audience? I would really enjoy hearing El Duke explain how he was able to get out of Cuba, same with Contreras.
Aaron Rowand had a few one liners about Crede after they got back from their hunting trip down in Missouri that were priceless. I could just imagine what Timo or Ozuna would say about Uribe and it would probably be just as hilarious.

tacosalbarojas
08-18-2005, 12:57 PM
Mary Kay sent letters asking about nine players. None replied.

They have all received information that the purpose of our group is to raise funds for kids with cancer.

I will make no comment one way or the other.Bummer. Maybe some of these guys need to get Gloaded to wake up to where they could be. I can't imagine that guys like Bobby Jenks or Jon Adkins feel too 'big' to come to one of these luncheons...wait a second, they're twentysomething ballplayers...sure I can imagine it!

hose
08-18-2005, 12:57 PM
My take on the Sox 3 Stooges:

Moe(ring leader)

:timo:

Curly

:uribe:

Larry

:ozuna:

TornLabrum
08-18-2005, 01:11 PM
I was planning on taking my Dad , sorry to hear it's cancelled.

With all the good people in the Sox organization I doubt these luncheons will ever cease to exist.

Do you think it's a case of so many other charitable events instead of to few willing participants?

It seems ex-players like Ron Kittle for example, have golf outings and then
add in the players wives with events and I'm sure most players have a full schedule on the few days off they have.

I'm not trying to make excuses for the ball players but how many of the Spanish speaking players with limited English would feel comfortable in front of an English speaking audience? I would really enjoy hearing El Duke explain how he was able to get out of Cuba, same with Contreras.
Aaron Rowand had a few one liners about Crede after they got back from their hunting trip down in Missouri that were priceless. I could just imagine what Timo or Ozuna would say about Uribe and it would probably be just as hilarious.

Our take is that there might have been too many things on the platter this week. Still, some kind of response would be nice rather than just being blown off.

Mots09
08-18-2005, 01:11 PM
After reading this thread I thought I would weight in..

Being a former college baseball player. I will echo that the majority of the time spent in the dugout by reserves, starters, pitchers (starters or relievers) on our team (which placed 4th in Country in Division III) was spent by scooping the crowd for hot women may it be moms or college girls. I know that we weren't paid but I seriously doubt that the benches raised are affecting the way the team is playing. Face it its the dog days of August and they over a 10 game lead thus I hate to say it but they are probably dis-counting these games and looking towards the playoffs.

In addition Torn I am so sorry to hear that none of the guys showed up to the luncheon. I know how great of a club you have and its a shame that none of them showed or ever took the courtesy to call (could have had their agent or personal assistant pick up the phone).

In addition I also collect autographs and its amazing how stringent some players are on signing certain things especially retired players that have signed deals w/ autograph companies.

ewokpelts
08-18-2005, 02:09 PM
Any chance of getting a September event?

Gene

dickallen15
08-18-2005, 02:24 PM
Bummer. Maybe some of these guys need to get Gloaded to wake up to where they could be. I can't imagine that guys like Bobby Jenks or Jon Adkins feel too 'big' to come to one of these luncheons...wait a second, they're twentysomething ballplayers...sure I can imagine it!

I couldn't imagine Bobby Jenks turning down a free lunch.

TornLabrum
08-18-2005, 02:39 PM
Any chance of getting a September event?

Gene

We discussed it and looked at two dates, both Saturdays since a few of us teach and can't exactly take vacation days. We'll have to see.

Rocky Soprano
08-18-2005, 02:39 PM
I couldn't imagine Bobby Jenks turning down a free lunch.

:roflmao:

ewokpelts
08-18-2005, 04:26 PM
We discussed it and looked at two dates, both Saturdays since a few of us teach and can't exactly take vacation days. We'll have to see. Well, Sept 10 is out, since it's now a fox game. Keep us abreat of any possible makeup luncheon. I've been meaning to go to one for a while now.
Gene

alohafri
08-18-2005, 04:39 PM
I heard from a reliable source who was there that several players were at an autograph session at a downtown store last week. According to my source, the players talked among themselves and didn't bother to even look at the people they were signing for, let alone say, "You're welcome." One player was heard saying to another, "Go on ebay Monday and you'll find this stuff for sale."

As far as our event goes, there is talk now that we may disband the club if we can't get the players to do the luncheons. Over the ten years we've been around, we've donated something like $70,000 to Chicago Baseball Cancer Charities. This year we have more members than we've ever had: 226 as of last week. Each luncheon clears around $1000 (or more) for our charity. Each of the past three years we've donated $10,000. So losing this luncheon probably cost us 10% of our donation to CBCC.

All of our money above expenses is earmarked for Children's Memorial Hospital. All of us on the board are volunteers. We all pay for our own admissions to the events we attend...and then we work at them, too. It's diheartening to see something like that blown off by the players.

That would be a bummer. Although I haven't been to a luncheon in a few years due to other committments, I still gladly pay my yearly fee because it is such a great cause.

steff
08-18-2005, 04:59 PM
That would be a bummer. Although I haven't been to a luncheon in a few years due to other committments, I still gladly pay my yearly fee because it is such a great cause.


Us too. Everytime there has been one we've been out of town or just too busy at work to get away for the day. But that check gets sent without fail. WCSF do too many good things. I hope this doesn't turn into someting worse than just 1 missed lunch.

bunnybrief
08-18-2005, 06:29 PM
Wow - would you look at this thread!

The White Sox must have really pissed some people off to provoke this smarmy morality play! I feel like I'm watching a cheesy old movie here.

Oh, that's right - got to put on your Sunday best...the Yankees are coming to town.

HITMEN OF 77
08-18-2005, 06:31 PM
This goes well with my earlier rant on ebay game used items....http://cgi.ebay.com/A-J-PIERZYNSKI-signed-GAME-USED-BAT-WHITE-SOX_W0QQitemZ5232295122QQcategoryZ27261QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem

maurice
08-18-2005, 06:48 PM
I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt right now.

Ditto.

Vernam
08-18-2005, 08:25 PM
If I were a player, I'd gladly sign for kids but would hope for (and probably be lucky to find any) politeness in return. I don't think that adults requesting signatures would sit very well with me, whether the items are destined for eBay or not. The novelty would wear off pretty quickly after your rookie season. Whether they should consider it part of the job is open to debate, I suppose, but adults who line up for autographs are wise to steel themselves for at least a little disdain. Paying for the privilege almost makes you a better target.

Unless the money is going to a good cause. Charity events are a whole other thing, and I can empathize with Torn or anyone else who has to depend on athletes who are under no obligation to devote time to a worthy cause. It does sound like you're paying a price for how the players' time and signatures have been commoditized. I just wouldn't conclude they aren't off doing other good deeds that don't involve signing memorabilia.

VC

TornLabrum
08-18-2005, 09:10 PM
If I were a player, I'd gladly sign for kids but would hope for (and probably be lucky to find any) politeness in return. I don't think that adults requesting signatures would sit very well with me, whether the items are destined for eBay or not. The novelty would wear off pretty quickly after your rookie season. Whether they should consider it part of the job is open to debate, I suppose, but adults who line up for autographs are wise to steel themselves for at least a little disdain. Paying for the privilege almost makes you a better target.

Unless the money is going to a good cause. Charity events are a whole other thing, and I can empathize with Torn or anyone else who has to depend on athletes who are under no obligation to devote time to a worthy cause. It does sound like you're paying a price for how the players' time and signatures have been commoditized. I just wouldn't conclude they aren't off doing other good deeds that don't involve signing memorabilia.

VC

I'm giving the players as much of the benefit of the doubt as I can, except, as I noted before, trying to get players to come, and now to even acknowledge their invitations, has gotten more difficult every year.

I don't really blame the players all that much. I blame whatever it is that has depersonalized the relationship between them and their fans. A lot of our members are season ticket holders. Others go to as many games as they can afford. These are the people who go to the ballpark night after night to see them play.

Even before the cancellation was announced, Mary Kay was telling people that we might not have a luncheon in August because we had no guest. The members immediately wanted to know when we would reschedule it. It's hard to tell them we don't know because we can't be sure of getting a guest.

If you saw the absolute agony Mary Kay goes through each luncheon until somebody actually shows up, you'd understand why she's said more than once that we might as well disband.

Well, at least we know Ozzie is good for a luncheon every June....

Ol' No. 2
08-18-2005, 09:18 PM
I'm giving the players as much of the benefit of the doubt as I can, except, as I noted before, trying to get players to come, and now to even acknowledge their invitations, has gotten more difficult every year.

I don't really blame the players all that much. I blame whatever it is that has depersonalized the relationship between them and their fans. A lot of our members are season ticket holders. Others go to as many games as they can afford. These are the people who go to the ballpark night after night to see them play.

Even before the cancellation was announced, Mary Kay was telling people that we might not have a luncheon in August because we had no guest. The members immediately wanted to know when we would reschedule it. It's hard to tell them we don't know because we can't be sure of getting a guest.

If you saw the absolute agony Mary Kay goes through each luncheon until somebody actually shows up, you'd understand why she's said more than once that we might as well disband.

Well, at least we know Ozzie is good for a luncheon every June....While it certainly doesn't excuse their failure to even respond, I wonder if today's golf outing might have played a role. Going to a luncheon doesn't exactly qualify as a hardship, but they get precious little time to spend with their families during the season, and I could understand not wanting to give up back-to-back days.

Speaking to the longer term issue, might it help to set dates for a whole season in advance, then send them the list and ask them to pick one that's most convenient? Perhaps you could get management to help by posting the list in the clubhouse.

TornLabrum
08-18-2005, 09:33 PM
While it certainly doesn't excuse their failure to even respond, I wonder if today's golf outing might have played a role. Going to a luncheon doesn't exactly qualify as a hardship, but they get precious little time to spend with their families during the season, and I could understand not wanting to give up back-to-back days.

Speaking to the longer term issue, might it help to set dates for a whole season in advance, then send them the list and ask them to pick one that's most convenient? Perhaps you could get management to help by posting the list in the clubhouse.

It's hard to schedule events until we see what the Sox home schedule is. That usually comes out in November. So we could possibly do it that far in advance.

The problem comes with players committing. On player verbally committed to our July luncheon at spring training and then said nothing afterwards, even after receiving an invitation for that particular luncheon. Most won't give any kind of commitment until days before the luncheon. That makes publicizing them (I'm the one who sends press releases to the local papers, etc.) pretty difficult.

I can hardly wait to find out what happens when Mary Kay talks to some of these guys at Picnic in the Park.

SpammySosa
08-18-2005, 10:26 PM
If I were a player, I'd gladly sign for kids but would hope for (and probably be lucky to find any) politeness in return. I don't think that adults requesting signatures would sit very well with me, whether the items are destined for eBay or not. The novelty would wear off pretty quickly after your rookie season. Whether they should consider it part of the job is open to debate, I suppose, but adults who line up for autographs are wise to steel themselves for at least a little disdain. Paying for the privilege almost makes you a better target.

Unless the money is going to a good cause. Charity events are a whole other thing, and I can empathize with Torn or anyone else who has to depend on athletes who are under no obligation to devote time to a worthy cause. It does sound like you're paying a price for how the players' time and signatures have been commoditized. I just wouldn't conclude they aren't off doing other good deeds that don't involve signing memorabilia.

VC
Although I respect your opinion,I don't understand why some people think autograph collecting is only suited for kids and not adults.

While it was a thrill meeting a few players as a child,I don't think I had a full appreciation of their contributions and an understanding of baseball the way I do now.

A lot of my collection has been built in the last few years,though many items are of players I watched in my youth.

One of the things I appreciate is the learning process as I research players I never got to see or I get a refresher course on the ones I did.

(I should mention I collect both current and former players through the mail,in addition to attending autograph appearances.)

I could read articles and books and be satisfied with just gaining knowledge.
But to have a memento,not to mention some great conversations and experiences has made it much more personal.

I know that's not everyone's desired experience,but hopefully you can understand where I am coming from.Perhaps some of the other collectors who articulate better than me can add to this hijacked posting.:tongue:
EDIT:I tried to separate my sentences for you,BigEdWalsh to make for easier reading.:wink:

IowaSox1971
08-19-2005, 03:02 AM
The problem here is that the players are getting pulled in too many different directions. When you have the best record in baseball for much of the season, requests for players' time start to pile up. Did anybody else see the big feature on the White Sox and the players acting out the team's promotions in ESPN the magazine? Those photos, I believe, were taken well before a game (or they might have even been taken on an off day.) There was a big story on Podsednik in a recent Sports Illustrated. Ozzie helped host a "This Week in Baseball" segment, which also featured Podsednik. The Sporting News had a feature on Garland and Buehrle. These things take up valuable time for the players and the manager. Then on this homestand there is a golf charity event and a cancer fund-raiser on consecutive days. It's understandable that the players can't make every event -- no matter how good the cause.

TornLabrum
08-19-2005, 05:30 AM
The problem here is that the players are getting pulled in too many different directions. When you have the best record in baseball for much of the season, requests for players' time start to pile up. Did anybody else see the big feature on the White Sox and the players acting out the team's promotions in ESPN the magazine? Those photos, I believe, were taken well before a game (or they might have even been taken on an off day.) There was a big story on Podsednik in a recent Sports Illustrated. Ozzie helped host a "This Week in Baseball" segment, which also featured Podsednik. The Sporting News had a feature on Garland and Buehrle. These things take up valuable time for the players and the manager. Then on this homestand there is a golf charity event and a cancer fund-raiser on consecutive days. It's understandable that the players can't make every event -- no matter how good the cause.

I know a little bit about the Podsednik taping for TWIB. We rearranged our normal schedule to accommodate his leaving a half hour early to tape his segment. And again, A RESPONSE would have been nice, no matter how busy their schedule.

dickallen15
08-19-2005, 06:16 AM
I am reading these posts, and its time for people to stop drinking the kool-aid. They talk about these guys and their precious time. Give me a break. Half of them don't even have families in town. They get invited to a charity event, an event that would take up a whole 2 hours of their day, and they can't even take the time to call and say they are busy, or they won't be able to make it. In exchange for the large sums of money these guys are paid, they have to give up some things. Their lives aren't going to be as private as the average joe. They are going to be asked to make appearances. The problem with this particular appearance is obvious. They don't get paid. If you threw $10k at them, there would be no trouble getting a guest. White Sox players are no different from players on all the other teams. Its all about the benjamins. Its time these players reflect on how good they have it, and how lucky they are.

Realist
08-19-2005, 07:44 AM
This is very sad and unfortunate. Hopefully it's just a case of really, really bad timing. That does happen some times. Stay positive.

bunnybrief
08-19-2005, 08:34 AM
I am reading these posts, and its time for people to stop drinking the kool-aid. They talk about these guys and their precious time. Give me a break. Half of them don't even have families in town. They get invited to a charity event, an event that would take up a whole 2 hours of their day, and they can't even take the time to call and say they are busy, or they won't be able to make it. In exchange for the large sums of money these guys are paid, they have to give up some things. Their lives aren't going to be as private as the average joe. They are going to be asked to make appearances. The problem with this particular appearance is obvious. They don't get paid. If you threw $10k at them, there would be no trouble getting a guest. White Sox players are no different from players on all the other teams. Its all about the benjamins. Its time these players reflect on how good they have it, and how lucky they are.

They have to "give up" some things? What, pray tell, are those things? Somehow, I get the feeling that entails more than a few "appearances".

Why shouldn't they have the same rights as anyone else?

Time to put this myth to rest, don't you think? They're being paid to win ballgames, not oblige someone else's ridiculous moral code, which is never strict enough, apparently.

Haven't we seen enough libel in the local media already? Is that the price they are supposed to pay?

Palehose13
08-19-2005, 08:44 AM
Time to put this myth to rest, don't you think? They're being paid to win ballgames, not oblige someone else's ridiculous moral code, which is never strict enough, apparently.



What "moral code" are you talking about? It's called common courtesy to return a phone call. I guess I missed the class when being courteous is now a moral issue. :rolleyes:

bunnybrief
08-19-2005, 09:15 AM
What "moral code" are you talking about? It's called common courtesy to return a phone call. I guess I missed the class when being courteous is now a moral issue. :rolleyes:

First of all, this is typical Yankee moralistic garbage.

It's called "gaslighting". I see no proof that such a phone call was made. Nor is it reasonable to expect someone to show up at the last minute anyway.

These are yet more New York Yankee media tactics to smear the Sox.

You know damn well the media read these boards - this is an effort to slip some garbage to them. They do it all the time.

I'll tell you what "common courtesy" is: it's reserving judgment when you don't have all the facts in.

Since when are White Sox fans blind to all of this stuff? Since when have they forgotten the history? I guess the White Sox must have offended the Yankees terribly this time. I just wish they'd tell us directly what the offense was.

Over By There
08-19-2005, 09:27 AM
First of all, this is typical Yankee moralistic garbage.

It's called "gaslighting". I see no proof that such a phone call was made. Nor is it reasonable to expect someone to show up at the last minute anyway.

These are yet more New York Yankee media tactics to smear the Sox.

You know damn well the media read these boards - this is an effort to slip some garbage to them. They do it all the time.

I'll tell you what "common courtesy" is: it's reserving judgment when you don't have all the facts in.

Since when are White Sox fans blind to all of this stuff? Since when have they forgotten the history? I guess the White Sox must have offended the Yankees terribly this time. I just wish they'd tell us directly what the offense was.

Remind me again what any of this has to do with the Yankees? Are you smoking the same hallucinogen as ChiSoxBob?

Palehose13
08-19-2005, 09:33 AM
First of all, this is typical Yankee moralistic garbage.

It's called "gaslighting". I see no proof that such a phone call was made. Nor is it reasonable to expect someone to show up at the last minute anyway.

These are yet more New York Yankee media tactics to smear the Sox.

You know damn well the media read these boards - this is an effort to slip some garbage to them. They do it all the time.

I'll tell you what "common courtesy" is: it's reserving judgment when you don't have all the facts in.

Since when are White Sox fans blind to all of this stuff? Since when have they forgotten the history? I guess the White Sox must have offended the Yankees terribly this time. I just wish they'd tell us directly what the offense was.

The proof is that I know Hal and trust that his intention is not to "gaslight" anything. I'm happy to see that you learned a new word or two in your first few years of undergrad, but I don't see a conspiracy here.

SSN721
08-19-2005, 09:40 AM
First of all, this is typical Yankee moralistic garbage.

It's called "gaslighting". I see no proof that such a phone call was made. Nor is it reasonable to expect someone to show up at the last minute anyway.

These are yet more New York Yankee media tactics to smear the Sox.

You know damn well the media read these boards - this is an effort to slip some garbage to them. They do it all the time.

I'll tell you what "common courtesy" is: it's reserving judgment when you don't have all the facts in.

Since when are White Sox fans blind to all of this stuff? Since when have they forgotten the history? I guess the White Sox must have offended the Yankees terribly this time. I just wish they'd tell us directly what the offense was.

What does this have to do with players or their assistants or agents returning a simple phone call? That is asking too much of them? A lot of us work hours longer and harder them yet this is still standard courtesy as far as I know of. I think most of us still find time to return a phone call.

steff
08-19-2005, 12:15 PM
First of all, this is typical Yankee moralistic garbage.

It's called "gaslighting". I see no proof that such a phone call was made. Nor is it reasonable to expect someone to show up at the last minute anyway.

These are yet more New York Yankee media tactics to smear the Sox.

You know damn well the media read these boards - this is an effort to slip some garbage to them. They do it all the time.

I'll tell you what "common courtesy" is: it's reserving judgment when you don't have all the facts in.

Since when are White Sox fans blind to all of this stuff? Since when have they forgotten the history? I guess the White Sox must have offended the Yankees terribly this time. I just wish they'd tell us directly what the offense was.


:?:


Cue Twilight Zone music....

Palehose13
08-19-2005, 12:18 PM
:?:


Cue Twilight Zone music....

Dontcha know Steff, it's a WSI conspricacy. From what I can tell, bunnybrief believes that this website is responsible for some of the negative media articles. We post stuff on here begging the mediots to take it, make a story, and call it their own.

I haven't given anyone a vacation yet, but I'm getting close... :cool:

steff
08-19-2005, 12:21 PM
Dontcha know Steff, it's a WSI conspricacy. From what I can tell, bunnybrief believes that this website is responsible for some of the negative media articles. We post stuff on here begging the mediots to take it, make a story, and call it their own.

I haven't given anyone a vacation yet, but I'm getting close... :cool:

Common friggin sense, and some simple reading comprehension skills, in reading Hal's posts would dispell any thoughts that Hal isn't on the up & up.

Good grief... Hal... not honest... LMAO.. that makes me LOL.

Palehose13
08-19-2005, 12:23 PM
Common friggin sense, and some simple reading comprehension skills, in reading Hal's posts would dispell any thoughts that Hal isn't on the up & up.

Good grief... Hal... not honest... LMAO.. that makes me LOL.

Well he does enjoy watching the "pride crew" a little too much. That must mean that he is a trouble maker. :wink:

steff
08-19-2005, 12:27 PM
Well he does enjoy watching the "pride crew" a little too much. That must mean that he is a trouble maker. :wink:


Uh.. I didn't say he wasn't a troublemaker. :rolleyes:

Palehose13
08-19-2005, 12:28 PM
Uh.. I didn't say he wasn't a troublemaker. :rolleyes:

:duel:

voodoochile
08-19-2005, 12:41 PM
Dontcha know Steff, it's a WSI conspricacy. From what I can tell, bunnybrief believes that this website is responsible for some of the negative media articles. We post stuff on here begging the mediots to take it, make a story, and call it their own.

I haven't given anyone a vacation yet, but I'm getting close... :cool:

I say go for it. BB clearly is an idiot...

TornLabrum
08-19-2005, 01:22 PM
The proof is that I know Hal and trust that his intention is not to "gaslight" anything. I'm happy to see that you learned a new word or two in your first few years of undergrad, but I don't see a conspiracy here.

He also made a misstatement that these were last minute invitations. The invitations were made to the players around the end of July or beginning of August. One player received and verbally accepted an invitation (which he subsequently ignored his acceptance of in March.