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Hangar18
08-17-2005, 12:32 PM
Not sure if this belongs in this forum, but did anyone who was at the game last nite, Notice the Jerk Usher, in the immediate section BEHIND the SOX dugout,
continue to check tickets and toss people out of their seats right until the 16th?

Now I know there are many who dont appreciate people who jump to other seats during the game, and I can appreciate that. But in the 8th inning?
I think its a moot point at that stage of the game. This guy was a machine,
he wouldnt let up. He was throwing people out of their seats in the 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th, 15th, and 16th innings. There was probably
all of 5,000 people left in the park........ and his section was EMPTY of fans,
and the neigboring sections on either side were full of fans. Pretty funny
to see, and pretty pathetic. Did anyone else see that?

LVSoxFan
08-17-2005, 12:42 PM
That is pathetic. Obviously the usher was power-tripping.

When I go to Comerica to see the Sox/Tigers, I always sneak down a few rows to right behind our dugout. I've been caught every time, by the same usher. He never tells me to move, because those seats are empty. He just wants to make sure I'm not sneaking down from the UD, he told me.

Unlike this tool at the Cell, obviously.

TomBradley72
08-17-2005, 12:44 PM
Similar incident happened to me at Old Comiskey...last game of the entire season in 1987...7th inning....almost no one in the park...usher checked tickets...when we didn't have our tickets...he asked us "Might I ask you to leave?"...we said "You might"...and didn't budge.

Over By There
08-17-2005, 12:47 PM
I wish they'd remove the goofs who spend the whole game on their cell phones waving at the TV cameras. There was another doofus doing this the entire game last night on the 1B side.

Jerko
08-17-2005, 12:47 PM
The usher checking the tickets probably bothered the people who "belong" in that section more than the squatters did. I can see it early on, but by the 8th inning I think it's safe to say nobody new is entering the park.

Jerko
08-17-2005, 12:48 PM
I wish they'd remove the goofs who spend the whole game on their cell phones waving at the TV cameras. There was another doofus doing this the entire game last night on the 1B side.

I bring my cell phone with with the sound OFF, and if I get separated from my friends (or can't find them when we first get there) I make a quick call. That is it. Usually, we have a meeting place so it doesn't even come to that. You should have to pass an IQ test to be able to sit in "TV" seats.

LVSoxFan
08-17-2005, 12:50 PM
AMEN, AMEN!

If I have to watch one more ******** MORON doing this all game, I'm going to drive out there and throw him off the UD! Wave ONCE, you IDIOT, to your buddy! But these guys sit there ALL GAME and WAVE LIKE MONKEYS. So was that Twins guy on the 1B side. These people should be ridiculed mercilessly. I can't think of anything more wholeheartedly IMBECILIC than the people who do this.

When I was in KC I was right behind 3B and in every shot of a RH batter. My family saw me on TV. I never waved. And I never brought my cell phone. I figured if they could see me, they'd let me know. I wasn't about to call them and start waving at them like some brain-damaged retard orangutan...

Paxson93
08-17-2005, 12:51 PM
I wish they'd remove the goofs who spend the whole game on their cell phones waving at the TV cameras. There was another doofus doing this the entire game last night on the 1B side.



That clown in the pink button down? God I thought he would get tired eventually but was waving like a tool every single time a lefty was up to bat right up through the 16th inning.... Total doofus.

Worst I ever had was I believe in 2001, getting booted out from seats we grabbed near the Sox dugout in the 9th inning of a blowout game that went through a 2 hour rain delay. There were probably only 12K in the park to begin with-- and maybe 500 at the time we got thrown out.

LVSoxFan
08-17-2005, 12:54 PM
Some ushers there are pretty open-minded, others have shooed me away from standing on the concourse behind the chain anywhere near home plate.

Depends on the person I guess.

Hangar18
08-17-2005, 12:55 PM
and since im venting about last nites experience, I again ran into the Way-too-long-waiting-for-Food experience. I waited about 25 minutes in a line before
I said to heck with it, Im missing too much of the game. I asked them
why they didnt have more people working, and you know what the women said? She was apologetic, and said they didnt know there would be big crowds monday and tuesday. unreal.

zach23
08-17-2005, 12:58 PM
Well, it does seem stupid to kick people out of seats at that point, but think of it this way too. What if some goof had pulled a Dybas/Ligue from that section and later it was found that they shouldn't have been sitting there. I am sure that usher would get in trouble for failing to check the tickets.

Jerko
08-17-2005, 01:01 PM
and since im venting about last nites experience, I again ran into the Way-too-long-waiting-for-Food experience. I waited about 25 minutes in a line before
I said to heck with it, Im missing too much of the game. I asked them
why they didnt have more people working, and you know what the women said? She was apologetic, and said they didnt know there would be big crowds monday and tuesday. unreal.

They're STILL using that excuse? Brutal.

Jerko
08-17-2005, 01:02 PM
Well, it does seem stupid to kick people out of seats at that point, but think of it this way too. What if some goof had pulled a Dybas/Ligue from that section and later it was found that they shouldn't have been sitting there. I am sure that usher would get in trouble for failing to check the tickets.

Very true. We don't need that again.

steff
08-17-2005, 01:04 PM
Well, it does seem stupid to kick people out of seats at that point, but think of it this way too. What if some goof had pulled a Dybas/Ligue from that section and later it was found that they shouldn't have been sitting there. I am sure that usher would get in trouble for failing to check the tickets.



Thank you...

Henry.... Sorry he didn't let you sit there.. :tongue: , but you should really just sit in the seat you paid for.

Over By There
08-17-2005, 01:05 PM
That clown in the pink button down?

I was actually thinking of the bald guy in the red/black/white baseball jersey. He was only a few seats away from the Twinkie fan wearing the road grey Minnesota jersey, who I saw do the "jersey pop" a few times. That really steamed me too.

VeeckAsInWreck
08-17-2005, 01:12 PM
Hangar,

For as much as you hate the usher, he was doing his job. I understand, I used to be one of them during the '94 season. Back then I worked in sec. 506 (last section of the UD in RF) and in those days that section was empty, but all too often I would get drunken fratboys without T-shirts who would want to go up there and act like total idiots to get on TV. My job was to kick them out, I'm sure most of them felt like you towards me only because I was doing my job. So lay off the kid and enjoy the game from your seat.

cheeses_h_rice
08-17-2005, 01:12 PM
Well, it does seem stupid to kick people out of seats at that point, but think of it this way too. What if some goof had pulled a Dybas/Ligue from that section and later it was found that they shouldn't have been sitting there. I am sure that usher would get in trouble for failing to check the tickets.

But they still have the security guys in white golf shirts standing on the field, so if they're doing their jobs, it shouldn't matter if some goof wants to move to seats closer to the field.

If fans stick around for a 5-hour game, I think they should at least be able to take seats vacated earlier.

Paxson93
08-17-2005, 01:14 PM
I was actually thinking of the bald guy in the red/black/white baseball jersey. He was only a few seats away from the Twinkie fan wearing the road grey Minnesota jersey, who I saw do the "jersey pop" a few times. That really steamed me too.



Yeah he was sitting next to Pink Shirt. I think they were buddies. Or at least they left the game buddies since they had similar IQs.

Frankly Missing
08-17-2005, 01:16 PM
If you have ever been to the Tropicana to see the Sox, you cant miss the security jag who stands on the field by the Sox dug out. He thinks hes somethin special. Right up to the end of the game he is Johnny on the Spot, and he makes a point of embarrassing people, makes them feel like they just stole an old ladies purse.

This guy is cocky personified.

The saddest part is, Ive seen Dads try to bring their kid down for the last inning or two, and he makes a big deal out of it and tosses them too.


I have already decided that next year Im going to get up and give my tickets to a Dad/kid combo so they can enjoy the great seats I am lucky enough to spoil myself with.

Most stadiums have gotten stricter about the age old practice of fans "upgrading" their seats, but I cant see the harm in allowing fans to move to empty seats late in the game.

Camden Yards is still liberal in letting fans do this, its fun to see the look on a kids face when he see the field from up close. And they think their Dad is some kind of hero!

nug0hs
08-17-2005, 01:17 PM
The ushers out in the area of section 113 were pretty cool. We were in row 7 to begin with but ended up moving down into the double letter rows closer towards the plate and the ushers did not even make eye contact with us (they were sitting down and watching the game too at that point).

Also, I went to a Nationals game vs. the Braves back in early May and the ushers there are completely laid back and relax. We had 500 level tickets and sat right behind the plate in the LD without getting our tickets checked at all.

Garland_IS_God
08-17-2005, 01:18 PM
I wish they'd remove the goofs who spend the whole game on their cell phones waving at the TV cameras. There was another doofus doing this the entire game last night on the 1B side.

Yeah I seen that guy doing that too. That gets on my nerves especially when Im at the game and the goof is a few rows in front acting like a fool.

Sad
08-17-2005, 01:18 PM
Yeah he was sitting next to Pink Shirt. I think they were buddies. Or at least they left the game buddies since they had similar IQs.

these yak on the phone & wave at the camera boobs have always been one of my biggest pet peeves...
:angry:
I see it every day, in any game, in any city...

cell phones have a useful purpose, unfortunately they are abused repeatedly...

LVSoxFan
08-17-2005, 01:22 PM
I think the cell-phone wavers should be publicly shamed, like johns caught in prostitution stings.

There should be a website featuring video loops of them played over and over, waving like monkeys on their cell phones, under the caption: "DO YOU KNOW THIS IDIOT?"

Amazing.

downstairs
08-17-2005, 01:23 PM
This is the one thing that I really hate about the Sox and the Cell.

Look... now that you have security on the field flanking every 10 feet... no one is going to cause problems!

You don't have to have these silly rules like not letting people down from the upper deck, and checking every ticket...

Just let it ride. If someone causes a problem, is drinking too much.... go find him/her and remove them from the park.

Sad
08-17-2005, 01:28 PM
I think the cell-phone wavers should be publicly shamed, like johns caught in prostitution stings.

There should be a website featuring video loops of them played over and over, waving like monkeys on their cell phones, under the caption: "DO YOU KNOW THIS IDIOT?"

Amazing.

yeah... I hear ya...
I mean who are they talking & waving to?
somebody they just seen within the last couple hours???

miker
08-17-2005, 01:39 PM
I think the cell-phone wavers should be publicly shamed, like johns caught in prostitution stings.

There should be a website featuring video loops of them played over and over, waving like monkeys on their cell phones, under the caption: "DO YOU KNOW THIS IDIOT?"

Amazing.
That would also be awfully entertaining on the scoreboard between innings.

miker
08-17-2005, 01:40 PM
Look... now that you have security on the field flanking every 10 feet... no one is going to cause problems!
What about streaking on the playing field? :smile:

mr_genius
08-17-2005, 01:40 PM
I think the cell-phone wavers should be publicly shamed, like johns caught in prostitution stings.

There should be a website featuring video loops of them played over and over, waving like monkeys on their cell phones, under the caption: "DO YOU KNOW THIS IDIOT?"



yes!

LVSoxFan
08-17-2005, 01:41 PM
LOL! Sort of like an anti-Fan Cam.

A FOOL cam! Accompanied by Bozo Bucket loser music (Waaa... waaa... waaa...)

Sad
08-17-2005, 01:43 PM
What about streaking on the playing field? :smile:

guy I work with & am going to tonite's game with was at that game Monday night in Detroit... I guess one guy ran directly into the stands... the other one they let run around for awhile in the outfield until he got tired...

gotta wonder what's mis-firing in the ole brain that leads to this...

itsnotrequired
08-17-2005, 01:51 PM
and since im venting about last nites experience, I again ran into the Way-too-long-waiting-for-Food experience. I waited about 25 minutes in a line before
I said to heck with it, Im missing too much of the game. I asked them
why they didnt have more people working, and you know what the women said? She was apologetic, and said they didnt know there would be big crowds monday and tuesday. unreal.

That excuse is so obnoxious. Sox have been drawing over 30k a game since July 8 (okay, one Toronto game had a litle over 28k). Do they think it is just some fluke? They KNOW the Yankee series is sold out so any ball-dropping by the concessions staff this weekend is completely unacceptable.

mr_genius
08-17-2005, 01:52 PM
A FOOL cam! Accompanied by Bozo Bucket loser music (Waaa... waaa... waaa...)

HAHA! you have to email that idea to someone who can make this happen.

VenturaSoxFan23
08-17-2005, 02:13 PM
I've had power hungry ushers constantly checking my ticket. But there are some sympathetic ones out there too.

Back in 1995, the Sox-Indians games were the hottest ticket in town. They had those 4 sections in the upper deck closed off to make it appear there were more people. I sat on the very edge of the closed-off section because I was scoring the game. The usher told me I couldn't sit there. I reasoned with him I sit 5 seats down in the next section over and can't score the game squeezed in with all these people. He said it was okay for me to sit there unless too many people try to do the same, then I'd have to go back. I said that's fine and thank you.

Two innings later, a whole mess of people sat along the edges of that section. The usher came along and told everyone to go back to their original seats. I told him I understand you're just doing your job. Thank you.

Never did get the guy's name. He was a really nice person. If you're polite and respectful, 99 times out of 100 he'll let you pass.

JimH
08-17-2005, 02:13 PM
Wait, let me get this straight ...

So in the 8th inning it's ok to go and sit in seats you didn't pay for. Check.

Hey, why not the 7th inning?

What about the 6th inning, heck, that's past the halfway point of the game.

The usher is doing his job. How does one know, 100% certain, that those people have left and aren't coming back?

All you people who think you're entitled to sit wherever you want just because there's an open seat and then trot out the dad and kid sad story ... get a grip, it's a different world.

When that usher gets canned for not doing his job because something happens, I'm sure you guys will be the first ones to take up a collection for him.

Here's an idea ... sit in the seat you paid for.

SouthSide_HitMen
08-17-2005, 02:22 PM
Hangar,

For as much as you hate the usher, he was doing his job. I understand, I used to be one of them during the '94 season. Back then I worked in sec. 506 (last section of the UD in RF) and in those days that section was empty, but all too often I would get drunken fratboys without T-shirts who would want to go up there and act like total idiots to get on TV. My job was to kick them out, I'm sure most of them felt like you towards me only because I was doing my job. So lay off the kid and enjoy the game from your seat.

Great post and tag name - Veeck was the finest man in Baseball. As a former Andy Frain usher (back in the day when they had Andy Frains) I can tell you that they are paid just over the minimum wage and really have a thankless job. In light of the two idiot fans (both drunk from a day at Wrigley) who ran the field a few years ago they can't afford any on the field incidents and the dugout is an area which always needs protection with the entire team all in one spot. Unfortunately the idiot few ruined it for 20,000 per night as fans in the upper deck can no longer go downstairs to go into the White Sox stores / Hall of Fame or buy or do anything else downstairs though with the current crowds they would probably have to limit access to keep it manageable.

SouthSide_HitMen
08-17-2005, 02:24 PM
these yak on the phone & wave at the camera boobs have always been one of my biggest pet peeves...
:angry:
I see it every day, in any game, in any city...

cell phones have a useful purpose, unfortunately they are abused repeatedly...

Write your representative to make Cell Phone Jammers legal!!!

VeeckAsInWreck
08-17-2005, 02:26 PM
When that usher gets canned for not doing his job because something happens, I'm sure you guys will be the first ones to take up a collection for him.

Here's an idea ... sit in the seat you paid for.

My thoughts exactly.

FielderJones
08-17-2005, 02:30 PM
During the 1977 season, we would usually get UD outfield seats and by the 7th or 8th inning we would be right behind home plate UD. We were rarely hassled, because we were (almost) always well-behaved.

VeeckAsInWreck
08-17-2005, 02:39 PM
Great post and tag name - Veeck was the finest man in Baseball. As a former Andy Frain usher (back in the day when they had Andy Frains) I can tell you that they are paid just over the minimum wage and really have a thankless job.

Thanks, '94 was the last year for Andy Frain at Comiskey, so I'm kinda like last of the Mohicans. But yeah, as you know it was a thankless job. You get paid very little and then have to put up with abusive drunken idiots who think they can do whatever they want because they paid for a ticket.

Back in 1995, the Sox-Indians games were the hottest ticket in town. They had those 4 sections in the upper deck closed off to make it appear there were more people. I sat on the very edge of the closed-off section because I was scoring the game. The usher told me I couldn't sit there. I reasoned with him I sit 5 seats down in the next section over and can't score the game squeezed in with all these people. He said it was okay for me to sit there unless too many people try to do the same, then I'd have to go back. I said that's fine and thank you.


I think that might have been me. Usually if fans were cool about it, I would allow them to sit in the lower rows if they had seats at the top and were afraid of heights. I did my job, but was usually pretty sympathetic to fan's needs.

chitownhawkfan
08-17-2005, 02:40 PM
I dont mind the ushers booting people who arent in their seats. After all the hard work Boyer and the marketing department has done to make the cell family friendly, it could be all washed away by two more idiots who decide to storm the field. If I buy upper deck tickets I sit there, I dont mind the view.

By the way, didnt anybody think that guy behind home plate last night looked like Rob Reiner?

GiveMeSox
08-17-2005, 02:45 PM
Not sure if this belongs in this forum, but did anyone who was at the game last nite, Notice the Jerk Usher, in the immediate section BEHIND the SOX dugout,
continue to check tickets and toss people out of their seats right until the 16th?

Now I know there are many who dont appreciate people who jump to other seats during the game, and I can appreciate that. But in the 8th inning?
I think its a moot point at that stage of the game. This guy was a machine,
he wouldnt let up. He was throwing people out of their seats in the 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th, 15th, and 16th innings. There was probably
all of 5,000 people left in the park........ and his section was EMPTY of fans,
and the neigboring sections on either side were full of fans. Pretty funny
to see, and pretty pathetic. Did anyone else see that?

Yes i definatly noticed this. I was sitting in 136 right next to the section and saw the usher doing this. Me and my friend were like what an A-hole!!!

SouthSide_HitMen
08-17-2005, 02:48 PM
Thanks, '94 was the last year for Andy Frain at Comiskey, so I'm kinda like last of the Mohicans. But yeah, as you know it was a thankless job. You get paid very little and then have to put up with abusive drunken idiots who think they can do whatever they want because they paid for a ticket.

I worked as a teenager in the old park. The first day I worked some guy fell out of the Upper Deck and died. I thought about that when that idiot jumped at Yankee Stadium last week. We had to wear those suits and police type hats which were sooo stylish. I worked the final year at Wrigley Field (think it was 86). I remember an incident at the Crosstown classic. Ozzie Guillen approached the visitor's dugout and a mother and her daughter asked for his autograph. He looked at them, took the chewing tobacco from his mouth and threw it at them and it went all over their blouses / jackets. I was stationed at the dugout and it was the only time in my life I was embarrassed to be a White Sox fan. There is little to suggest he has matured since then and I wouldn't be surprised if a similar incident leads to his departure.

mweflen
08-17-2005, 02:58 PM
I can see the argument for being so harsh about "sitting in the seat you paid for" in the 6th. The 7th. The 8th.

But the 14th? 15th? 16th? Come on, Steff and all you other seat-hawks, give it a rest. There's 3,000 people in the park to watch the Sox blow it at 12:30 at night. As long as a person isn't blazing drunk, swearing up a storm, or blocking a 4 year old's view, let him sit in the damn scout seats for all I care.

I'm all for shooing away people who are a nuisance because of drunkenness and poor behavior. I'm all for not sitting in someone else's seat if they are actually at the game. But there comes a point when you just have to let go and be reasonable. Examples:

-April game at 35 degrees with 5,000 people.
-Torrential downpour, inducing people to go under various overhangs.
-15th inning with 5,000 people left in the park.
-105 degree game with sun beating down, inducing people to seek shady sections.

TornLabrum
08-17-2005, 03:00 PM
I can see the argument for being so harsh about "sitting in the seat you paid for" in the 6th. The 7th. The 8th.

But the 14th? 15th? 16th? Come on, Steff and all you other seat-hawks, give it a rest. There's 3,000 people in the park to watch the Sox blow it at 12:30 at night. As long as a person isn't blazing drunk, swearing up a storm, or blocking a 4 year old's view, let him sit in the damn scout seats for all I care.

Just a thought here:

You want a better seat? Pay for it.

mweflen
08-17-2005, 03:02 PM
Just a thought here:

You want a better seat? Pay for it.

See my edited remarks.

I always sit in the seat I paid for, unless one of the above is in effect.

BarbG
08-17-2005, 03:03 PM
Notice the Jerk Usher, in the immediate section BEHIND the SOX dugout, continue to check tickets and toss people out of their seats right until the 16th?
Nope.

Because he obviously wasn't tossing people out of "their" seats, period. They had tickets to "their" seats, which they could have produced if they were "theirs." They were tossed out of somebody else's seats. Big difference.

But in the 8th inning? I think its a moot point at that stage of the game.
That game was 1/2 over in the 8th inning. Regardless, the game isn't over until it's OVER. What's the difference? People don't go to the bathroom in the 8th inning?

This guy was a machine, he wouldnt let up.
Good for him. A guy with integrity, actually doing the job he's paid to do. There's far too little of that in the world today.

If someone is leaving early and wants you to take advantage of their better seat they will give you their ticket. I'm not sure of the legality of that (nothing printed on the ticket about prohibiting transfer) but I've seen it done plenty of times.

mr_genius
08-17-2005, 03:14 PM
Just a thought here:

You want a better seat? Pay for it.

I remember growin up in bridgeport and going to sox games as a kid and we used to "upgrade"our seats. So what, we never caused problems and if someone came to get their seats (which rarely happened cause we would wait until about the 4th to get some seats which we noticed were open all game) we would gladly move. No one ever got really mad or anything. I guess things have changed, oh well. Now I can afford better seats and I don't mind if someone is sittin in my seat if I show up to the game late, I just say "haha, think you're in my seats". Sometimes people need to relax and enjoy the game of baseball and not worry if someone is "getting something for free" because they paid top dollar for their seats. Overly sensitive people should probably watch the game on TV (not saying that is you, just in a rule in general).

all of this, obviously, is just my opinion

LVSoxFan
08-17-2005, 03:14 PM
What a bunch of seat nazis here!

Like he said above:

-I've been to the 40 degree April games with 5,000 people
-Likewise the rainy day games
-Or the scalding hot games (my God! Boston! Oakland!) where it's 100 degrees on the field

So, I bought a ticket but since the close seats are completely empty, you have a problem with me trying to sit there when nobody else is going to. Those seats would have been empty anyway. Whatever, you freakin' bean-counters!

There's something called discretion which the park should be able to employ. On a slow day, why not let the fans roam a little bit if they're not taking anybody's seats; keep it strict when it's crowded.

What a bunch of narcs...

TornLabrum
08-17-2005, 03:26 PM
I remember growin up in bridgeport and going to sox games as a kid and we used to "upgrade"our seats. So what, we never caused problems and if someone came to get their seats (which rarely happened cause we would wait until about the 4th to get some seats which we noticed were open all game) we would gladly move. No one ever got really mad or anything. I guess things have changed, oh well. Now I can afford better seats and I don't mind if someone is sittin in my seat if I show up to the game late, I just say "haha, think you're in my seats". Sometimes people need to relax and enjoy the game of baseball and not worry if someone is "getting something for free" because they paid top dollar for their seats. Overly sensitive people should probably watch the game on TV (not saying that is you, just in a rule in general).

all of this, obviously, is just my opinion

When you were growing up in Bridgeport and upgrading your seats, Ligue and Dybas hadn't made their appearances. It's a different world now. When I was in my 20s and driving to the ballpark from Gary, there weren't people in making me pop my trunk or checking my jacket pockets before I got into the place either.

I think we all have to just realize that there are plenty of morons in the world. It's kind of like when we were kids and the teacher would punish the whole class for the actions of one idiot who wouldn't take responsibility for his (and it was always a guy) actions.

When you're dealing with tens of thousands of people, you can't wait for the moron to strike each time. You have to take pre-emptive action. They didn't search people very thoroughly (if at all) in airports before 9/11 either. Now everybody is inconvenienced.

mr_genius
08-17-2005, 03:32 PM
Good for him. A guy with integrity, actually doing the job he's paid to do. There's far too little of that in the world today.


ok, i hope thats what you say if you get a speeding ticket for going 1 mph over the speed limit.

If someone is leaving early and wants you to take advantage of their better seat they will give you their ticket. I'm not sure of the legality of that (nothing printed on the ticket about prohibiting transfer) but I've seen it done plenty of times.

WOW, just...WOW

Sometimes these boards seem like the twilight zone (I don't know any sox fans that are like this).

woodenleg
08-17-2005, 03:40 PM
That excuse is so obnoxious. Sox have been drawing over 30k a game since July 8 (okay, one Toronto game had a litle over 28k). Do they think it is just some fluke? They KNOW the Yankee series is sold out so any ball-dropping by the concessions staff this weekend is completely unacceptable.

Guys, this reminds me - and maybe there should be another thread for this:

I have attended a number of 'high-profile' games at the Cell this year, and I am wondering: just how ready is Chicago for the playoffs? For example, the CTA around the park is definitely not operating as efficiently as it should (it runs just fine up north, though!) : after one Red Sox game, people were waiting as long as an hour and a half to board the trains. Wow, that's some great PR for the city. I boarded the very last train, and we had to turn back in the middle of the subway because the one in front of us had 'stopped' (I found out later that there was supposedly a body thrown in front of the train - I KID YOU NOT). I ended up getting a cab because of this b.s., and the cab driver told me that many of the fans from the trains were dumped off at Clark and Division because the L shut down. Nice going.

Even last night, with most of the attendees gone, we had some problems getting on a train and moving as quickly as possible. Chicago is going to have to get serious about this and step things up. Being from the south side, I know that transportation down there generally gets the short shrift, but that is no excuse for a lack of preparation.

By the way, I was at the game last night, and I saw people moving all over the place with little impunity. I moved two times myself. I mean, there must have been about fifty people there toward the end of the thing...

maurice
08-17-2005, 03:45 PM
Trains do stop for bodies on the tracks. Unfortunately, it's not that unusual. The body in the latest example wasn't even on the South Side, IIRC.

Red Line trains on the South Side obviously run as frequently as they do on the North Side, since it's the exact same train. The only difference is that they run much faster on the South Side, because the train doesn't stop nearly as often. The Green Line is virtually an express train, compared to the northern Red Line and the Brown Line.

mr_genius
08-17-2005, 03:45 PM
When you were growing up in Bridgeport and upgrading your seats, Ligue and Dybas hadn't made their appearances. It's a different world now. When I was in my 20s and driving to the ballpark from Gary, there weren't people in making me pop my trunk or checking my jacket pockets before I got into the place either.

I think we all have to just realize that there are plenty of morons in the world. It's kind of like when we were kids and the teacher would punish the whole class for the actions of one idiot who wouldn't take responsibility for his (and it was always a guy) actions.

When you're dealing with tens of thousands of people, you can't wait for the moron to strike each time. You have to take pre-emptive action. They didn't search people very thoroughly (if at all) in airports before 9/11 either. Now everybody is inconvenienced.

I do understand the security reasons for checking tickets... however, checking tickets still won't stop some drunk from a wrigley day game (who purchased fairly good seats for the Sox night game) from charging onto the field. Those guys in the white shirts standing along side need to apprehend such perpetrators. I'm would guess that security isn't the only or even main reason for a relentless ticket check.

woodenleg
08-17-2005, 03:49 PM
Trains do stop for bodies on the tracks. Unfortunately, it's not that unusual. The body in the latest example wasn't even on the South Side, IIRC.

Red Line trains on the South Side obviously run as frequently as they do on the North Side, since it's the exact same train. The only difference is that they run much faster on the South Side, because the train doesn't stop nearly as often.

The point is - since I've lived on the north side for most of my adult life - the L appears to make extra runs when there are Cub games. I have never encountered such shortages before, during, or after a Cub game. I guess it's because money (or in this case, the perception of it) talks.

The 'frequency' has little bearing on the actual number of trains. The CTA has got to have more trains ready when the games are sold out - you can't have people lined up down the block for an hour or more. Also, the waits going to the ballpark are getting ridiculous. I'm sure they make accomodations for other major events. Also, I've been on more than one "suicide" train, and there are at least some buses or detour routes provided and directions given to CTA passengers. That night was a transportation disaster like I'd never seen.

Furthermore, there are two L lines that go near Wrigley Field, and a number of buses. The Cell also has the Green Line nearby, but it doesn't go all the way up north, which is where most of these riders appeared to be going.

TornLabrum
08-17-2005, 03:54 PM
I do understand the security reasons for checking tickets... however, checking tickets still won't stop some drunk from a wrigley day game (who purchased fairly good seats for the Sox night game) from charging onto the field. Those guys in the white shirts standing along side need to apprehend such perpetrators. I'm would guess that security isn't the only or even main reason for a relentless ticket check.

Mr. Dybas had 500-level seats. He came downstairs and claimed some empty 100-level seats near the field. He did it before they had all of the security people along the sidelines. Between the ushers and security people, the Sox now have two lines of defense against the idiots. Isn't that just a little bit better than relying on one?

Of course not, if it inconveniences me by my not being able to claim a seat I didn't pay for!

mweflen
08-17-2005, 04:00 PM
There's something called discretion which the park should be able to employ. On a slow day, why not let the fans roam a little bit if they're not taking anybody's seats; keep it strict when it's crowded.

What a bunch of narcs...

Your use of the word "discretion" reminds me of Plato's Republic. When Socrates speaks about morality, he disputes the overly rigid conception of some of his peers. The example given is "returning a man's borrowed goods to him."

Now, to someone with overly rigid conceptions of right and wring, the right thing to do in every case is to always return something borrowed - Socrates' example is a knife. But let's say the man has since gone insane - in this case, the moral thing to do is to retain possession of the knife - something which is "wrong" in the rigid sense but right when viewed in the situation.

So, at a baseball game:

Is it wrong to take another present patron's seat? Yes.

Is it wrong to sit in an unoccupied seat as long as you cause no disruption for those around you? Probably not.

Is it wrong to "camp" in an unoccupied seat in the shade on a 100 degree day? No.

Comparing sitting in various seats at a baseball game to airport security post 9/11 is so outrageously spurious that it is hard to quantify. Are people here arguing for a fan's right to import weapons into the park or to rush the field? No. They're arguing for a little discretion on the parts of people who don't need to be such hard-asses.

mweflen
08-17-2005, 04:02 PM
Mr. Dybas had 500-level seats. He came downstairs and claimed some empty 100-level seats near the field.

Do you have a source for this? I cannot recall ever having heard it.

BarbG
08-17-2005, 04:02 PM
ok, i hope thats what you say if you get a speeding ticket for going 1 mph over the speed limit.
IF (BIG "if" since I don't speed) I ever get a speeding ticket I'll let you know. But chances are VERY high that I would.

WOW, just...WOW

Sometimes these boards seem like the twilight zone (I don't know any sox fans that are like this).
Like what? Sox fans that personally attack other Sox fans because they believe in common courtesy and rules? I agree completely, I don't personally know any Sox fans like that.

If the Sox want a General Admission ballpark they will institute that. That's up to THEM. Attacking ME for treating others with respect won't change a thing.

TornLabrum
08-17-2005, 04:03 PM
Comparing sitting in various seats at a baseball game to airport security post 9/11 is so outrageously spurious that it is hard to quantify. Are people here arguing for a fan's right to import weapons into the park or to rush the field? No. They're arguing for a little discretion on the parts of people who don't need to be such hard-asses.

Tell that to Tom Gamboa.

TornLabrum
08-17-2005, 04:04 PM
Do you have a source for this? I cannot recall ever having heard it.

Newspaper and/or radio stories telling same the day after the incident.

mweflen
08-17-2005, 04:06 PM
Tell that to Tom Gamboa.

I seriously doubt whether Tom Gamboa or Laz Diaz give a rat's patootie whether someone sits in an unticketed shade seat on a 100 degree day, or "steals" a seat under the overhang when it is raining.

People here seriously need to unclench (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0595094724/ref=ord_cart_shr/103-2826859-4778259?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance).

itsnotrequired
08-17-2005, 04:06 PM
The point is - since I've lived on the north side for most of my adult life - the L appears to make extra runs when there are Cub games. I have never encountered such shortages before, during, or after a Cub game. I guess it's because money (or in this case, the perception of it) talks.

The 'frequency' has little bearing on the actual number of trains. The CTA has got to have more trains ready when the games are sold out - you can't have people lined up down the block for an hour or more. Also, the waits going to the ballpark are getting ridiculous. I'm sure they make accomodations for other major events. Also, I've been on more than one "suicide" train, and there are at least some buses or detour routes provided and directions given to CTA passengers. That night was a transportation disaster like I'd never seen.

Furthermore, there are two L lines that go near Wrigley Field, and a number of buses. The Cell also has the Green Line nearby, but it doesn't go all the way up north, which is where most of these riders appeared to be going.

There are indded extra services around Wrigley on game days. The CTA knows the people will be there so have no problem running extra trains. The excuse is that you never know if a Sox game will sell out so why should we run more trains? Weak sauce. The Sox organization should communicate with the CTA and let them know when there will be big crowds (35k+).

I will go to the Green Line on crowded dates since the Red is such a disaster. Problem is, they don't run more traisn there either. So after a night game, there are only 6 car trains running every 15 minutes.

maurice
08-17-2005, 04:07 PM
The 'frequency' has little bearing on the actual number of trains.

Actually, frequency has everything to do with the actual number of trains. I'd welcome additional service, but the current service is relatively good. I don't blame the CTA for stopping for a body on the tracks, no matter how annoying it seems. **** happens.

Unfortunately, I have first-hand knowledge that taking the Red Line anywhere near the start or end of a cub game is an absolute nightmare.

I've been on more than one "suicide" train, and there are at least some buses or detour routes provided

You mean like the Green Line, the State St. bus, the Michigan Ave. bus, the Wentworth bus, the 35th St. bus, and the Pershing bus -- all of which are within 2 blocks of the Red Line station? I agree that CTA communication sucks and that the boobs in the booths are pretty much useless, but that's not limited to the South Side either.

Furthermore, there are two L lines that go near Wrigley Field, and a number of buses.

As noted, the number of rail and bus routes within short walking distance from the Cell is ridiculously high. Any of them will take you downtown or to another el that goes downtown. If you can't get to the North Side from downtown, you have a complaint about north side CTA service.

Complaining that the Green Line doesn't go to the north side is like complaining that the Brown Line doesn't go to the south side. Who cares?

DumpJerry
08-17-2005, 04:08 PM
I have not read the whole thread, so I don't know if this was mentioned yet. When I am in court (I'm a lawyer), I have to make sure my cell is on silent. If a cell rings in court, the judge will confiscate it. We should have a similar policy.

I loved the "do you know this idiot?" idea. Last night, I came up with a punishment for cell phone abusers. Make the offender(s) take a 10 hour road trip in a small car with Terrell Owens, a/k/a "Sammy Sosa of the NFL."

mr_genius
08-17-2005, 04:09 PM
Mr. Dybas had 500-level seats. He came downstairs and claimed some empty 100-level seats near the field. He did it before they had all of the security people along the sidelines. Between the ushers and security people, the Sox now have two lines of defense against the idiots. Isn't that just a little bit better than relying on one?

Of course not, if it inconveniences me by my not being able to claim a seat I didn't pay for!

I don't know... I guess. I still think the guys on the field are the main upgrade in security. Idiots are idiots and some of them can afford good seats (just because Bybas was a broke doofus doesn't mean the next "field crasher" won't be some trust fund frat boy who could afford to get good seats). I just don't like seeing my fellow Sox fans being harrassed for something as innocent as getting closer to get a better view of the game. Not everyone can afford good seats (especially a working class family) and I think it should be ok for people to move up if there is an obvious lack of attendance in a certain area. I just hate to see some guy trying to move up after a rain delay with a couple of his kids (all wearing sox jerseys and what not) and get belittled by some jerk. It probably would have been a really "cool" experience for the kids to see a game up close.

BTW, I always sit in the seats I bought.

LVSoxFan
08-17-2005, 04:11 PM
Um, I think you're agreeing with me? Thank you.

Now as far as the idea of transportation and playoffs--you have to write off the body-on-tracks delay as an act of God. Well, okay, an act of man.

Those of you who take the el, as I only do, there are some tricks. I realize some are obvious, but I thought I'd pass 'em along.

-I never leave with the crowd at the end of the game. If it's a blowout, I leave early. If it's close, I get up, head to the exit leading to the el, and watch the last out on the concourse and then bolt out the door. You'll beat the majority of the crowd to 35th & the Ryan.

-Barring that, another approach is to stay after everybody files out. Trust me, an hour later 35th & Ryan is empty. Go to the Bullpen, go to Jimbo's, kill some time. The crowd will thin out.

-The great hidden secret that's not so secret is the Green Line. Just a few blocks further East, you have a virtually empty train that will take you North and South. Even if you leave on time, you just keep walking East on 35th and get on the Green Line. Depending on where you're going, you can bypass the entire herd at 35th on the Red and transfer at Roosevelt to the Red Line, or stay up top and get off to transfer to the Brown Line.

russ99
08-17-2005, 04:12 PM
When you were growing up in Bridgeport and upgrading your seats, Ligue and Dybas hadn't made their appearances. It's a different world now. When I was in my 20s and driving to the ballpark from Gary, there weren't people in making me pop my trunk or checking my jacket pockets before I got into the place either.

Oh, please. Considering the level of security present in the areas that Ligue and Dybas got on the field, as well as around the outfield that isn't an issue anymore, and don't give me any drunkard or "homeland security" excuses either.

It's pretty obvious where all this comes from. As a kid I was free to roam the entire park at Old Comiskey, as long as I wasn't misbehaving and was polite about leaving where I shouldn't be.

The overall reason is the total operating procedure for new Comiskey, it's seperating the various classes of fans.

This is why the Upper Deck is closed off from the lower level, this is why Jerry had to build the park with 3 levels of skyboxes and make climbing the upper deck like climbing a ladder, this is why select sections between the dugouts are closed off to 'regular' fans even if it's the 15th inning and this is why they got rid of the regular box seats behind the plate and put in barriers to be sure only the rich people get to sit in what they call the "Scout Seats".

I can keep going, but another example is the relegation of all the Half-price Tuesday tickets to the upper deck.

itsnotrequired
08-17-2005, 04:17 PM
-The great hidden secret that's not so secret is the Green Line. Just a few blocks further East, you have a virtually empty train that will take you North and South. Even if you leave on time, you just keep walking East on 35th and get on the Green Line. Depending on where you're going, you can bypass the entire herd at 35th on the Red and transfer at Roosevelt to the Red Line, or stay up top and get off to transfer to the Brown Line.

The secret is out on that one. Sure, a lot fewer people will trek over there but with 6 car trains only arriving every 15 minutes, that thing fills up pretty quick. Sometimes they are only 4 car trains, half the size of the Red and double the wait time.

The real stink with the Red is that they stop letting people in the station because it is too crowded. Also, there is a good crew of goofballs trying to put money on their cards. The lines are perpendicular to the turnstile lines and when they are long, block the turnstiles anyway! Put money on your cards BEFORE the game! A good way to avoid all that crap is to walk through the north parking lot to the 33rd St. entrance. No line, no fare machines and you walk down to the front of the platform (way less crowded). Problem is, that entrance is under construction through October so you'll have to wait until next year.

Hangar18
08-17-2005, 04:23 PM
Your use of the word "discretion" reminds me of Plato's Republic. When Socrates speaks about morality, he disputes the overly rigid conception of some of his peers. The example given is "returning a man's borrowed goods to him."

Now, to someone with overly rigid conceptions of right and wring, the right thing to do in every case is to always return something borrowed - Socrates' example is a knife. But let's say the man has since gone insane - in this case, the moral thing to do is to retain possession of the knife - something which is "wrong" in the rigid sense but right when viewed in the situation.

So, at a baseball game:

Is it wrong to take another present patron's seat? Yes.

Is it wrong to sit in an unoccupied seat as long as you cause no disruption for those around you? Probably not.

Is it wrong to "camp" in an unoccupied seat in the shade on a 100 degree day? No.

Comparing sitting in various seats at a baseball game to airport security post 9/11 is so outrageously spurious that it is hard to quantify. Are people here arguing for a fan's right to import weapons into the park or to rush the field? No. They're arguing for a little discretion on the parts of people who don't need to be such hard-asses.

This weirdo usher, who was continueing to TOSS people from their seats, resulting in his entire section being EMPTY (compared to the sections on either side, which were comparatively FULL) was in far contrast to the number of people that were still in the stadium. This guy made sure nobody was in that section ........... while the rest of the ushers were not checking tickets, but making sure people were comfortable and maintaining a presence (as such)

I wasnt affected by this zealous usher, but sitting on the 1B side, and seeing him rousing groups of people to check for tickets, stirring an expected commotion, sure was interrupting those above, below, around, and in sight of the game. This person definitely didnt use his discretion. There
was no need to check tickets in a section of 500 seats .....if there were only
25 people in the section

mweflen
08-17-2005, 04:23 PM
-The great hidden secret that's not so secret is the Green Line. Just a few blocks further East, you have a virtually empty train that will take you North and South. Even if you leave on time, you just keep walking East on 35th and get on the Green Line. Depending on where you're going, you can bypass the entire herd at 35th on the Red and transfer at Roosevelt to the Red Line, or stay up top and get off to transfer to the Brown Line.

No secret here. I do it every time there's a crowd.

mr_genius
08-17-2005, 04:23 PM
IF (BIG "if" since I don't speed) I ever get a speeding ticket I'll let you know. But chances are VERY high that I would.

I guarantee you go atleast 1mph over the limit sometimes (that is of course if you do drive).


Like what? Sox fans that personally attack other Sox fans because they believe in common courtesy and rules? I agree completely, I don't personally know any Sox fans like that.

If the Sox want a General Admission ballpark they will institute that. That's up to THEM. Attacking ME for treating others with respect won't change a thing.

First off, you were never personally attacked by me. I said I don't know any Sox fans that express the same opinions as you, relax. Secondly, I never said anything about general admission... just common sense.

mweflen
08-17-2005, 04:25 PM
I wasnt affected by this zealous usher, but sitting on the 1B side, and seeing him rousing groups of people to check for tickets, stirring an expected commotion, sure was interrupting those above, below, around, and in sight of the game. This person definitely didnt use his discretion. There
was no need to check tickets in a section of 500 seats .....if there were only
25 people in the section

This is a great point. In an otherwise empty or near empty section, checking tickets actually causes MORE disruption than just letting people sit down.

LVSoxFan
08-17-2005, 04:31 PM
You are so right about the people clogging the lanes trying to put money on their cards at the last minute. I have a monthly card so it's not an issue; but does nobody plan ahead? Apparently non-regular CTA riders don't realize there's no more cash fares.

When I get on at Grand (coming from work) heading to the park, the station is jammed with people doing just that.

TornLabrum
08-17-2005, 04:35 PM
I seriously doubt whether Tom Gamboa or Laz Diaz give a rat's patootie whether someone sits in an unticketed shade seat on a 100 degree day, or "steals" a seat under the overhang when it is raining.

People here seriously need to unclench (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0595094724/ref=ord_cart_shr/103-2826859-4778259?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance).

I'm sure they would have appreciated those particular ticket holders staying in the seats they had tickets for, though.

itsnotrequired
08-17-2005, 04:36 PM
You are so right about the people clogging the lanes trying to put money on their cards at the last minute. I have a monthly card so it's not an issue; but does nobody plan ahead? Apparently non-regular CTA riders don't realize there's no more cash fares.

When I get on at Grand (coming from work) heading to the park, the station is jammed with people doing just that.

There hasn't been cash fares on the El in what, eight years? Have these people never ridden the train before?

TornLabrum
08-17-2005, 04:40 PM
I don't know... I guess. I still think the guys on the field are the main upgrade in security. Idiots are idiots and some of them can afford good seats (just because Bybas was a broke doofus doesn't mean the next "field crasher" won't be some trust fund frat boy who could afford to get good seats). I just don't like seeing my fellow Sox fans being harrassed for something as innocent as getting closer to get a better view of the game. Not everyone can afford good seats (especially a working class family) and I think it should be ok for people to move up if there is an obvious lack of attendance in a certain area. I just hate to see some guy trying to move up after a rain delay with a couple of his kids (all wearing sox jerseys and what not) and get belittled by some jerk. It probably would have been a really "cool" experience for the kids to see a game up close.

BTW, I always sit in the seats I bought.

The actual upgrades to security following the Ligue and Dybas incidents:

1) Extra security personnel were placed down the foul lines between innings and stationed nearby during the games.

2) Persons holding 500-level tickets were no longer allowed on the 100-level concourses.

Ushers had always checked tickets, sometimes at predetermined times given by a PA announcement, during games with large crowds. I can remember them doing this in 1991-93 during sell-outs. I think they were most likely told to no longer allow the "Comiskey Upgrade" after these incidents.

steff
08-17-2005, 04:41 PM
I can see the argument for being so harsh about "sitting in the seat you paid for" in the 6th. The 7th. The 8th.

But the 14th? 15th? 16th? Come on, Steff and all you other seat-hawks,


LMAO.. "seat hawk".. that's a new one.

How's this one... "seat THIEF" :wink:

mweflen
08-17-2005, 04:43 PM
LMAO.. "seat hawk".. that's a new one.

How's this one... "seat THIEF" :wink:

You're right. I'm a thief. The White Sox don't need charlatans, scalawags and mountebanks like myself to attend games. They have more than enough people attending every game as it is. And every time I camp in a seat, I feel an irresistable urge to rush the field, too... Who can fathom the depths of the criminal mind?

BarbG
08-17-2005, 04:45 PM
Have any of you who are so offended by an usher doing his job and so furious that people cannot sit wherever they please complained to the Sox front office about it instead of blaming/flaming people here?

TornLabrum
08-17-2005, 04:45 PM
Oh, please. Considering the level of security present in the areas that Ligue and Dybas got on the field, as well as around the outfield that isn't an issue anymore, and don't give me any drunkard or "homeland security" excuses either.

It's pretty obvious where all this comes from. As a kid I was free to roam the entire park at Old Comiskey, as long as I wasn't misbehaving and was polite about leaving where I shouldn't be.

The overall reason is the total operating procedure for new Comiskey, it's seperating the various classes of fans.

This is why the Upper Deck is closed off from the lower level, this is why Jerry had to build the park with 3 levels of skyboxes and make climbing the upper deck like climbing a ladder, this is why select sections between the dugouts are closed off to 'regular' fans even if it's the 15th inning and this is why they got rid of the regular box seats behind the plate and put in barriers to be sure only the rich people get to sit in what they call the "Scout Seats".

I can keep going, but another example is the relegation of all the Half-price Tuesday tickets to the upper deck.

Nice conspiracy theory, and you're wrong. The restriction of upper deck ticket holders to the upper deck was a direct result, suggested by the people form MLB security, to prevent future such incidents. Before these, the lower concourse was accessible to anyone.

The relegation of half-price Tuesday had to do with marketing. As PHG mentioned here on numerous occasions before this occurred, devaluing your product tends to cause the public to perceive it as perhaps being subpar. Half-price Tuesdays became known as fight night because of the riff-raff who showed up in the bleachers getting tanked and causing major problems for people who actually wanted to watch a ball game.

Does anybody hear ever read a newspaper, or watch or listen to news broadcasts?

Chisox003
08-17-2005, 04:45 PM
FWIW, I've talked with the usher in question a few times (I also work at the Cell.....Vending.....), and he's a really nice kid...

The fact is, he's just doing his job! It's not like he was doing that on his own; someone ordered him to do so. Plus, just because he was the only one actually seen doing it, doesnt mean he was in fact the only Usher escorting people out of those seats....

Please :rolleyes: .... Find something else to complain about

mweflen
08-17-2005, 04:46 PM
Have any of you who are so offended by an usher doing his job and so furious that people cannot sit wherever they please complained to the Sox front office about it instead of blaming/flaming people here?

Don't let's get started on "complaining to management" stories here. Trust me, you wouldn't want to read some of the stuff that would come up! :D:

steff
08-17-2005, 04:48 PM
Have any of you who are so offended by an usher doing his job and so furious that people cannot sit wherever they please complained to the Sox front office about it instead of blaming/flaming people here?


Oh Lord I hope not. Brooks has enough bull**** to deal with.. :rolleyes:

mweflen
08-17-2005, 04:48 PM
Nice conspiracy theory, and you're wrong. The restriction of upper deck ticket holders to the upper deck was a direct result, suggested by the people form MLB security, to prevent future such incidents. Before these, the lower concourse was accessible to anyone.


Because naturally, all the lower-income slobs who would sit in the UD are much more apt to jump the field and attack an umpire than the polite, urbane denizens of the LD.

Lovee, would you be a pet and pass me my shoulder sweater? It gets chilly in the Hamptons at times, doesn't it!

NardiWasHere
08-17-2005, 04:48 PM
I moved down to the green seats next to the scout seats in the 11th or so and i didnt see anyone get booted

mr_genius
08-17-2005, 04:48 PM
The actual upgrades to security following the Ligue and Dybas incidents:

1) Extra security personnel were placed down the foul lines between innings and stationed nearby during the games.

2) Persons holding 500-level tickets were no longer allowed on the 100-level concourses.

Ushers had always checked tickets, sometimes at predetermined times given by a PA announcement, during games with large crowds. I can remember them doing this in 1991-93 during sell-outs. I think they were most likely told to no longer allow the "Comiskey Upgrade" after these incidents.

Step '1)' is the only one that helps, IMO. '2)' assumes only people sitting in the 500 level will want to attack coaches, umps, ect. Not a very accurate assumption. The 500 level rule is based more on profits rather than security (if ya ask me). If you have upper deck tickets, you should sit in the upper deck. When I say upgrade, I mean upgrade from lower level seat B to lower level seat A when common sense allows.

steff
08-17-2005, 04:51 PM
I moved down to the green seats next to the scout seats in the 11th or so and i didnt see anyone get booted


Yea.. Jim and I don't remember anything like this either, but we are in 127. I do remember making several comments that I was surprised so many folks stayed till the end. There was definitely more than 25 people behind the Sox dugout though. About 7K left at the end of the nite.

TornLabrum
08-17-2005, 04:52 PM
Because naturally, all the lower-income slobs who would sit in the UD are much more apt to jump the field and attack an umpire than the polite, urbane denizens of the LD.

Lovee, can you pass me my shoulder sweater? It gets chilly in the Hamptons at times, doesn't it!

Nice Dan McNeil impersonation!

As it turned out, that WAS the case with Dybas. I'm not sure where Ligue's seats were, but he was not in them before he and his son went after Gamboa. He had "upgraded" them.

mr_genius
08-17-2005, 04:53 PM
I feel an irresistable urge to rush the field, too...



must.... charge....Gamboa....

mweflen
08-17-2005, 04:54 PM
Nice Dan McNeil impersonation!

As it turned out, that WAS the case with Dybas. I'm not sure where Ligue's seats were, but he was not in them before he and his son went after Gamboa. He had "upgraded" them.

Who is this Dan McNeil you speak of? We UD slobs don't have radios or televisions in our mud-floor shacks.

VeeckAsInWreck
08-17-2005, 04:54 PM
FWIW, I've talked with the usher in question a few times (I also work at the Cell.....Vending.....), and he's a really nice kid...

The fact is, he's just doing his job! It's not like he was doing that on his own; someone ordered him to do so. Plus, just because he was the only one actually seen doing it, doesnt mean he was in fact the only Usher escorting people out of those seats....

Please :rolleyes: .... Find something else to complain about

Thank You! That is exactly what I was trying to say earlier. Good for him for doing his job.

TornLabrum
08-17-2005, 04:57 PM
Back in the day (the first few years after the new park opened) when I was making less than half of what I am now, I used to sit in the upper deck. I'd stay there the entire game. Those were the seats I had paid for.

Take it for what it's worth.

SoxFan78
08-17-2005, 04:57 PM
Who is this Dan McNeil you speak of? We UD slobs don't have radios or televisions in our mud-floor shacks.

Im a upper decker my self. What are these radio's and television's everybody is talking about??

Hangar18
08-17-2005, 04:58 PM
To put all of this in a nutshell, let me tell this story, it was previously mentioned by me, but worth noting again. I was at a game last year,
nice summer nite, but there was a torrential downpour middle of the game,
resulting in the game being delayed and people scrambling for cover on the
concourses and under the overhang. I went to this game with Kittle42,
and our seats were 2nd row off the home dugout, pretty good ones too.

Well, as we sat in a row of empty seats under the overhang, this usher
walks up to Kittle42, and asks to see his ticket, despite the fact that
the ENTIRE SECTION was empty of fans, it was pouring rain. I was
behind him getting a beer at one of those concourse stands when I noticed
the "commotion". Kittle immediately said he wasnt in his seat, but because
it was raiining. She saw his ticket wasnt there, and immediately told him
he had to leave. I started TO LAUGH HYSTERICALLY and I said "Alrite ushers! kick that guy back DOWN to his seats" it was funny.

Chisox003
08-17-2005, 04:58 PM
One more thing...

Can you imagine *IF* (And dont say it can't happen again, its happened TWICE), another maniac ran onto the field?

The Sox, upper management, U.S. Cellular, the fans, EVERYONE associated with the White Sox would be ripped to shreds

And thats when you'd see a thread here: "WHY THE **** ARENT THE USHERS DOING THEIR JOBS?!?"

Again, find something better to complain about

TornLabrum
08-17-2005, 05:00 PM
One more thing...

Can you imagine *IF* (And dont say it can't happen again, its happened TWICE), another maniac ran onto the field?

The Sox, upper management, U.S. Cellular, the fans, EVERYONE associated with the White Sox would be ripped to shreds

And thats when you'd see a thread here: "WHY THE **** ARENT THE USHERS DOING THEIR JOBS?!?"

Again, find something better to complain about

Post of the Millennium!

mweflen
08-17-2005, 05:01 PM
Back in the day (the first few years after the new park opened) when I was making less than half of what I am now, I used to sit in the upper deck. I'd stay there the entire game. Those were the seats I had paid for.

Take it for what it's worth.

FWIW, more than half of my game tix this year are Sec. 520, mondays and tuesdays. Most are in rows 1-4, since I bought them in February.

FWIW, if most of the UD has cleared out due to weather, blowout, and the like, I have absolutely no compunction whatsoever about moving in towards home plate (533) in the UD.

I guess it's a slippery slope between that and assaulting umpires. I resign my part in this argument. You win.

Also, penguins don't fly on tuesdays. Since we're indulging in non sequiturs.

mr_genius
08-17-2005, 05:04 PM
One more thing...

Can you imagine *IF* (And dont say it can't happen again, its happened TWICE), another maniac ran onto the field?

The Sox, upper management, U.S. Cellular, the fans, EVERYONE associated with the White Sox would be ripped to shreds

And thats when you'd see a thread here: "WHY THE **** ARENT THE USHERS DOING THEIR JOBS?!?"

Again, find something better to complain about

Once again, flawed logic. Security needs to stop people immediatly once they get on the field. People who paid for lower deck seats may also rush the field. Example 1.) Rich drunk cub fan charges field (he has first row seats) 2.) Poor drunk fan has lower deck seats, bolts past security and gets on field. 3.)mr_genius parachutes onto field from UD seat. 4.) Usher is busy checking tickets while Ligue sneaks past and makes another on-field run for glory.

"seat stealing" is not the cause.

mweflen
08-17-2005, 05:06 PM
Once again, flawed logic. Security needs to stop people immediatly once they get on the field. People who paid for lower deck seats may also rush the field. Example 1.) Rich drunk cub fan charges field (he has first row seats) 2.) Poor drunk fan has lower deck seats, bolts past security and gets on field. 3.)mr_genius parachutes onto field from UD seat.

"seat stealing" is not the cause.

You, sir, are insane! Seat stealing has been definitively linked with all disciplinary incidents at New Comiskey Park.

You should have your head phrenologically examined.

Chisox003
08-17-2005, 05:06 PM
Once again, flawed logic. Security needs to stop people immediatly once they get on the field. People who paid for lower deck seats may also rush the field. Example 1.) Rich drunk cub fan charges field (he has first row seats) 2.) Poor drunk fan has lower deck seats, bolts past security and gets on field. 3.)mr_genius parachutes onto field from UD seat.

"seat stealing" is not the cause.

Ok, but is it not along the same line?

U.S. Cellular field and upper management are doing anything and everything to keep people off the field...Unforunately, this is one of the necassary precautions

Can you honestly blame them?

mweflen
08-17-2005, 05:08 PM
Ok, but is it not along the same line?

U.S. Cellular field and upper management are doing anything and everything to keep people off the field...Unforunately, this is one of the necassary precautions

Can you honestly blame them?

Hear hear, well said old bean.

Hangar18
08-17-2005, 05:08 PM
Once again, flawed logic. Security needs to stop people immediatly once they get on the field. People who paid for lower deck seats may also rush the field. Example 1.) Rich drunk cub fan charges field (he has first row seats) 2.) Poor drunk fan has lower deck seats, bolts past security and gets on field. 3.)mr_genius parachutes onto field from UD seat. 4.) Usher is busy checking tickets while Ligue sneaks past and makes another on-field run for glory.

"seat stealing" is not the cause.

(laughing my butt off hysterically at this moment in my office) :D:

mr_genius
08-17-2005, 05:10 PM
Ok, but is it not along the same line?

U.S. Cellular field and upper management are doing anything and everything to keep people off the field...Unforunately, this is one of the necassary precautions

Can you honestly blame them?

No, I don't blame them. I just think it is a misguided policy.

kittle42
08-17-2005, 05:10 PM
To put all of this in a nutshell, let me tell this story, it was previously mentioned by me, but worth noting again. I was at a game last year,
nice summer nite, but there was a torrential downpour middle of the game,
resulting in the game being delayed and people scrambling for cover on the
concourses and under the overhang. I went to this game with Kittle42,
and our seats were 2nd row off the home dugout, pretty good ones too.

Well, as we sat in a row of empty seats under the overhang, this usher
walks up to Kittle42, and asks to see his ticket, despite the fact that
the ENTIRE SECTION was empty of fans, it was pouring rain. I was
behind him getting a beer at one of those concourse stands when I noticed
the "commotion". Kittle immediately said he wasnt in his seat, but because
it was raiining. She saw his ticket wasnt there, and immediately told him
he had to leave. I started TO LAUGH HYSTERICALLY and I said "Alrite ushers! kick that guy back DOWN to his seats" it was funny.

Yeah - this was a pretty amusing incident. I chose to move back to row 27 or whatever it was under the overhang so as not to get poured on and was told to move back to my better seats where I could get drenched.

I understand everyone's argument about rushing the field and stuff, but I think moving further away would have made one less of a candidate to do so.

mweflen
08-17-2005, 05:11 PM
I understand everyone's argument about rushing the field and stuff, but I think moving further away would have made one less of a candidate to do so.

That, my friend, is where you are wrong! People who sit in unticketed seats are known by all decent folk to be violent, unrepentant career criminals.

Oh, btw...

:tomatoaward

chisoxfanatic
08-17-2005, 05:14 PM
I can see maybe relocating ONCE during a game...But, there were these people who moved FIVE times during the Sox/Tigers game on that Tuesday night roughly a month ago. I just wish people would sit down and stay there instead of creating commotion.

TornLabrum
08-17-2005, 05:15 PM
Ok, but is it not along the same line?

U.S. Cellular field and upper management are doing anything and everything to keep people off the field...Unforunately, this is one of the necassary precautions

Can you honestly blame them?

Of course!

itsnotrequired
08-17-2005, 05:16 PM
Yeah - this was a pretty amusing incident. I chose to move back to row 27 or whatever it was under the overhang so as not to get poured on and was told to move back to my better seats where I could get drenched.

I understand everyone's argument about rushing the field and stuff, but I think moving further away would have made one less of a candidate to do so.

I remember that game! My wife and I did walk-up and got tickets in row 28 or something like that. We were a little bummbed that they were so far back but once the rain started, we were loving it. I remember getting up and going to the bathroom and coming back to see people in our seats. We showed them our tickets, the ushers gave them the boot and we stayed nice and dry.

BarbG
08-17-2005, 05:16 PM
That, my friend, is where you are wrong! People who sit in unticketed seats are known by all decent folk to be violent, unrepentant career criminals.

What the heck is an "unticketed seat?"

Hangar18
08-17-2005, 05:18 PM
You, sir, are insane! Seat stealing has been definitively linked with all disciplinary incidents at New Comiskey Park.

You should have your head phrenologically examined.


Not so fast . Ligue aside (he indeed had UD tickets, and apparently wanted to see what it was like lower level, him not being a regular Cell customer), the 4 Cub fans that ran the field (after getting liquored up at
the Cub game earlier that afternoon) ALL HAD BLEACHER SEATS. So they
had access to the lower level already, when they decided to pretend they
were at Wrigley again, and pulled their nonsense. Dybas, the other cub
fan who tried to jump the umpire at 1st, also had lower level seats, when
he took exception to the umpires clothing or something like that.

I think what were missing here is the one REAL fact. It was Drunk Cub fans
who were loaded from hanging out at The Urinal earlier in the day, who were
guilty of charging the field and causing untold nonsense, not seat-stealing Sox fans. Thats the difference, and of course, the Media wont
do their homework regarding that incident. I just think its way too excessive to be checking tickets in the 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th, 15th and 16th innings of a game. If someone wants to charge the field,
theyre going to do it. Fortuneately, we have the security guys on the field, and thats the end of that.

BarbG
08-17-2005, 05:18 PM
Back in the day (the first few years after the new park opened) when I was making less than half of what I am now, I used to sit in the upper deck. I'd stay there the entire game. Those were the seats I had paid for.

Take it for what it's worth.

Me too.

And I've never been insulted and bashed for it until today.

mr_genius
08-17-2005, 05:20 PM
Hear hear, well said old bean.

hahaha

kittle42
08-17-2005, 05:20 PM
I remember that game! My wife and I did walk-up and got tickets in row 28 or something like that. We were a little bummbed that they were so far back but once the rain started, we were loving it. I remember getting up and going to the bathroom and coming back to see people in our seats. We showed them our tickets, the ushers gave them the boot and we stayed nice and dry.

If that was actually the situation I faced, which would not be far-fetched if it were a packed house, I would have been perfectly fine with it, but this was back in the days of the 17K mid-week crowd, so those row 27 and 28 seats were pretty empty.

mweflen
08-17-2005, 05:20 PM
What the heck is an "unticketed seat?"

A seat that one does not possess the ticket for.

Blob
08-17-2005, 05:21 PM
Well, it does seem stupid to kick people out of seats at that point, but think of it this way too. What if some goof had pulled a Dybas/Ligue from that section and later it was found that they shouldn't have been sitting there. I am sure that usher would get in trouble for failing to check the tickets.

Exactly! When morons come out to the park and run on the field like idiots these are the kind of things we need to tolerate.

kittle42
08-17-2005, 05:21 PM
I think what were missing here is the one REAL fact. It was Drunk Cub fans
who were loaded from hanging out at The Urinal earlier in the day, who were
guilty of charging the field and causing untold nonsense, not seat-stealing Sox fans. Thats the difference, and of course, the Media wont
do their homework regarding that incident.

Way to hijack your own thread! :cool:

mweflen
08-17-2005, 05:26 PM
In all seriousness, the root of the "fan rushing" problem is drunkeness. If sox management really wanted to attack that problem, they'd restrict beer sales much earlier than they currently do, and also limit number of beers per purchase.

Instead, they do something which may or may not have fine PR value (i.e. looking like they are addressing the security issue) but actually has little or no effect on it. They care about the bottom line, pure and simple. The UD policy and increased usher zealousness serve mainly to protect the Sox pricing structure. I have seen no reduction whatsoever in fan rowdiness, swearing, and other inappropriate behavior.

Hangar18
08-17-2005, 05:27 PM
What the heck is an "unticketed seat?"

A seat that doesnt have a ticket.

kittle42
08-17-2005, 05:37 PM
In all seriousness, the root of the "fan rushing" problem is drunkeness. If sox management really wanted to attack that problem, they'd restrict beer sales much earlier than they currently do, and also limit number of beers per purchase.

Instead, they do something which may or may not have fine PR value (i.e. looking like they are addressing the security issue) but actually has little or no effect on it. They care about the bottom line, pure and simple. The UD policy and increased usher zealousness serve mainly to protect the Sox pricing structure. I have seen no reduction whatsoever in fan rowdiness, swearing, and other inappropriate behavior.

I am not a proponent of limiting beer sales, as I enjoy indulging at games. However, you are right. I would pretty much bet that 95%+ of the people who rush the field for any reason are drunk, and they likely got drunk (or more drunk) at the game.

russ99
08-17-2005, 05:41 PM
The restriction of upper deck ticket holders to the upper deck was a direct result, suggested by the people form MLB security, to prevent future such incidents. Before these, the lower concourse was accessible to anyone.

I guess that's the company line. :smile: Which other MLB parks have similar regulations?

Since security is now so tight, why not let the upper deck fans come downstairs and check out the Hall of Fame, the good gift shop and hat store and all the newer areas inaccessible to them after beer sales are cut off or after the top half of the 8th. Security could exclude any drunk idiots from entering the lower level.

I had seats in the upper deck Monday and lower level yesterday and curiously, it seemed most of the concessions close upstairs much earlier too.

I see your point on the half-price Tuesday's affecting the bottom line, and why give away half of the gate to aggressive alky fringe fans who come to cause trouble anyway.

steff
08-17-2005, 05:48 PM
I guess that's the company line. :smile: Which other MLB parks have similar regulations?



Cleveland, Baltimore, Seattle, Arlington, Yankee Stadium.. off the top of my head, and Boston would not let us even near the stairs to the seats to the monster without a ticket nor would they let us walk up to see the field from the outfield.

The concessions close at the same time, and there is a gift shop up there. Anyone with a ticket has access to the BPSB.


Anything else..?

iamkoza
08-17-2005, 05:56 PM
I love the 35th st train station... especially when tere are 500 people trying to get through when its humid. It's a free sauna

More trains would def. be appreciated. That way I wouldn't have to run like hell to the station after the final out

bobj4400
08-17-2005, 06:23 PM
and since im venting about last nites experience, I again ran into the Way-too-long-waiting-for-Food experience. I waited about 25 minutes in a line before
I said to heck with it, Im missing too much of the game. I asked them
why they didnt have more people working, and you know what the women said? She was apologetic, and said they didnt know there would be big crowds monday and tuesday. unreal.

just wondering where you waited 25 minutes for food? i was there last night and went to the different concessions stands multiple times for dogs, nachos, and beers and never had to wait more than a few minutes...

steff
08-17-2005, 06:28 PM
just wondering where you waited 25 minutes for food? i was there last night and went to the different concessions stands multiple times for dogs, nachos, and beers and never had to wait more than a few minutes...


He counts the time he stands there to decide what he wants as "time in line"

:D:

TornLabrum
08-17-2005, 06:31 PM
He counts the time he stands there to decide what he wants as "time in line"

:D:

That's the Hangar I know and love! :D:

mweflen
08-17-2005, 06:32 PM
Cleveland, Baltimore, Seattle, Arlington, Yankee Stadium.. off the top of my head, and Boston would not let us even near the stairs to the seats to the monster without a ticket nor would they let us walk up to see the field from the outfield.

The concessions close at the same time, and there is a gift shop up there. Anyone with a ticket has access to the BPSB.


Anything else..?

I have been to CLE and DET this year, and UD fans had access to all levels.

Shockingly, none of these UD patrons rushed the field.

VeeckAsInWreck
08-17-2005, 06:38 PM
I have been to CLE and DET this year, and UD fans had access to all levels.

Shockingly, none of these UD patrons rushed the field.

No, but all fans in Detroit love to streak! I'm willing to bet it was one of those upper deck dwellers!

ZachAL
08-17-2005, 07:49 PM
Your use of the word "discretion" reminds me of Plato's Republic. When Socrates speaks about morality, he disputes the overly rigid conception of some of his peers. The example given is "returning a man's borrowed goods to him."

Now, to someone with overly rigid conceptions of right and wring, the right thing to do in every case is to always return something borrowed - Socrates' example is a knife. But let's say the man has since gone insane - in this case, the moral thing to do is to retain possession of the knife - something which is "wrong" in the rigid sense but right when viewed in the situation.

So, at a baseball game:

Is it wrong to take another present patron's seat? Yes.

Is it wrong to sit in an unoccupied seat as long as you cause no disruption for those around you? Probably not.

Is it wrong to "camp" in an unoccupied seat in the shade on a 100 degree day? No.

Comparing sitting in various seats at a baseball game to airport security post 9/11 is so outrageously spurious that it is hard to quantify. Are people here arguing for a fan's right to import weapons into the park or to rush the field? No. They're arguing for a little discretion on the parts of people who don't need to be such hard-asses.

as "outrageously spurious" as reinforcing your point by bringing in Plato's republic???
Sit in the seat you paid for. If I were to pay for an expensive seat down low and you were to freeload off of me, that is your moral choice. But how can you possibly justify your right to sit there? If someone were to bother me in the slightest way and ruin that experience which I paid and they did not, then I would feel more than right to ask them to leave. This being said if they were being totally harmless and not bothering myself I would not bother them, and let them sit there. Although they are responsible for their actions in those seats, and they should understand the usher is probably somewhat responsible for their actions in those seats as well to a certain extent

JimH
08-17-2005, 07:57 PM
See my edited remarks.

I always sit in the seat I paid for, unless one of the above is in effect.

So ... basically, when in your personal judgement it's ok to do so.

Those ushers are instructed to be consistent, as well they should. I completely realize some aren't, that's human nature. But believe me, a problem can happen when there's 2k in the ballpark in a 16 inning marathon the same way as a sold out game.

I don't understand why certain situations dictate when you have free reign to sit wherever you want. It doesn't make sense.

JimH
08-17-2005, 08:13 PM
I have been to CLE and DET this year, and UD fans had access to all levels.

Shockingly, none of these UD patrons rushed the field.

Just try to sneak down to a seat behind the dugout in Detroit.
Good luck. They'll direct you back to the seat you paid for.

This whole argument smacks of "I want something for nothing" syndrome.

bunnybrief
08-17-2005, 08:46 PM
If those people liked their seats so much, then why didn't they stay in them? Hell, I wouldn't care if someone took my seat if I left early.

Close to the field, I could understand, but jeez...no need to be so dogmatic about it.

PaleHoseGeorge
08-17-2005, 11:16 PM
Not so fast . Ligue aside (he indeed had UD tickets, and apparently wanted to see what it was like lower level, him not being a regular Cell customer), the 4 Cub fans that ran the field (after getting liquored up at
the Cub game earlier that afternoon) ALL HAD BLEACHER SEATS. So they
had access to the lower level already, when they decided to pretend they
were at Wrigley again, and pulled their nonsense. Dybas, the other cub
fan who tried to jump the umpire at 1st, also had lower level seats, when
he took exception to the umpires clothing or something like that.

I think what were missing here is the one REAL fact. It was Drunk Cub fans
who were loaded from hanging out at The Urinal earlier in the day, who were
guilty of charging the field and causing untold nonsense, not seat-stealing Sox fans. Thats the difference, and of course, the Media wont
do their homework regarding that incident. I just think its way too excessive to be checking tickets in the 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th, 15th and 16th innings of a game. If someone wants to charge the field,
theyre going to do it. Fortuneately, we have the security guys on the field, and thats the end of that.

This is the biggest pile of bull**** you have ever written... no small feat, Hangar. I will never again call Jerry Reinsdorf cheap after reading the complete nonsense you and others have written in this thread.

Now let's hear another of your whine-a-thons about Reinsdorf dumping salary and not re-signing Magglio. Is a little consistency too much to ask for, Hangar? Apparently it is.

Cheapskates sit in cheap seats. Stay there and stop depriving the Sox of the revenue your own cheapness steals from the club.

chisoxmike
08-17-2005, 11:24 PM
Not sure if this belongs in this forum, but did anyone who was at the game last nite, Notice the Jerk Usher, in the immediate section BEHIND the SOX dugout,
continue to check tickets and toss people out of their seats right until the 16th?

Now I know there are many who dont appreciate people who jump to other seats during the game, and I can appreciate that. But in the 8th inning?
I think its a moot point at that stage of the game. This guy was a machine,
he wouldnt let up. He was throwing people out of their seats in the 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th, 15th, and 16th innings. There was probably
all of 5,000 people left in the park........ and his section was EMPTY of fans,
and the neigboring sections on either side were full of fans. Pretty funny
to see, and pretty pathetic. Did anyone else see that?

I know EXACTLY who you are talking about, on the July 4th game he shagged by brother and I out of seats behind the dugout IN THE 8TH inning. Remember, there was a two hour rain delay and most of the crowd had left the game. We just went to the section over and he never came by.

I see this ass on TV now all the time and he pisses me off just by looking at him. It seems he was given a bit of power and he is totally taking advantage of it.

steff
08-17-2005, 11:31 PM
I have been to CLE and DET this year, and UD fans had access to all levels.

Shockingly, none of these UD patrons rushed the field.



I didn't say anything about Detroit..

And post what you like, but in Cleveland you can not roam the park with an UD ticket. We had friends and family tickets and still couldn't get downstairs.

mr_genius
08-17-2005, 11:42 PM
i would just arrest anyone that sat in the wrong seat (and throw away the key)

:tongue:

CLR01
08-18-2005, 12:58 AM
You friends of the Comiskey upgrade are pathetic. Everytime this subject comes up you invent new reasons for why it should be allowed. Soon enough the reason will be you have a respiratory disease and the thin air in the upper deck makes it hard to breath. :rolleyes:


That usher should get a raise.

CLR01
08-18-2005, 01:00 AM
Since security is now so tight, why not let the upper deck fans come downstairs and check out the Hall of Fame, the good gift shop and hat store and all the newer areas inaccessible to them after beer sales are cut off or after the top half of the 8th. Security could exclude any drunk idiots from entering the lower level.



Yeah, good idea. Since they added more security lets increase the number of people they have to watch.

Jerko
08-18-2005, 01:05 AM
For once and for all, upper deck people, stay in the upper deck. It doesn't get any easier than that. If you want to see the Hall of fame, or fan deck, or whatever, pick a day you can afford it and buy lower level seats.

bunnybrief
08-18-2005, 01:24 AM
By the way, I know who the rat is here. She doesn't like my mother and can't stop spying and gossiping about my mother and her 'spoiled brat' kids, even though we're all successful adults now. Perhaps that's the problem - she's made a career out of her jealousy. She was sitting behind me in row 118 but I think she left when the game got too long. I mean, no wonder I moved my seat - she would not shut up during the entire game, trying to prove to anyone within earshot what a 'knowledgeable' Sox fan she is (like, did you know that AJ used to be a Twin?!? Gosh, I'm impressed, lady!). It was quite distracting, I think she did it on purpose, she was very theatrical about it. Now I know what sort of character my mother is always making fun of. She used to tell me about these people, but only occasionally did I witness one of them 'in the act'. They treat the whole south suburbs like it's their church.

Yes, there are grown-ups who really act this way. They're not real Sox fans, which is why they go to great lengths to 'prove' they are, and just end up being incredibly annoying. They're just professional gossips and meddlers who run to the phone and their 'powerful' friends any time they catch one of their targets doing something remotely 'immoral'. This has been going on for years. Time to expose it for what it is.

Cut the crap. The game was sixteen innings long, it was nearly midnight, and at that point, no one really gave a damn where anyone was sitting. This is just some sad sour grapes housewife blowing things all out of proportion.

SouthSide_HitMen
08-18-2005, 01:41 AM
I am not a proponent of limiting beer sales, as I enjoy indulging at games. However, you are right. I would pretty much bet that 95%+ of the people who rush the field for any reason are drunk, and they likely got drunk (or more drunk) at the game.

I think stupidity has as big a role as alcohol. Most people after even several beers won't go onto the field - it takes an element of stupidity most fans (thankfully) lack. Also most stupid fans won't go onto the field without either getting boozed up or having their stupidity multiplied by the stupid people around the idiot egging them on. Case in point the stupid sober 18 year old who jumped on the net at Yankee Stadium to see if it could hold his weight.

Unlike the other incidents (the most serious of which was Gamboa) this incident could have caused fatalities above and beyond the moron who jumped (after he lands on and kills/ seriously hurts those below). No alcohol was involved. Vast quantities of stupidity, however, were on hand. I am waiting for the lawsuit against the Yankees for not doing more to "prevent this tragedy" from the idiot who jumped and or his parents.

Stupid is as stupid does. Alcohol may impear judgment but when it comes to the seriously stupid among us said judgment is already gone.

BainesHOF
08-18-2005, 03:42 AM
Let's be honest about Sox security. It's pretty much non-existent. If someone wants to run on the field, it takes virtually no effort. If I see a fight break out in the stands, I could call 911 and have the Naperville cops arrive at the scene faster than Sox security. The bleachers have often been a free-for-all on half-price nights this season and security is nowhere to be found.

Viva Medias B's
08-18-2005, 08:05 AM
I have not read the whole thread, so I don't know if this was mentioned yet. When I am in court (I'm a lawyer), I have to make sure my cell is on silent. If a cell rings in court, the judge will confiscate it. We should have a similar policy.

I loved the "do you know this idiot?" idea. Last night, I came up with a punishment for cell phone abusers. Make the offender(s) take a 10 hour road trip in a small car with Terrell Owens, a/k/a "Sammy Sosa of the NFL."

Several Catholic Churches now tell people to turn off their cell phones and pagers before Mass begins.

russ99
08-18-2005, 09:30 AM
Let's be honest about Sox security. It's pretty much non-existent. If someone wants to run on the field, it takes virtually no effort. If I see a fight break out in the stands, I could call 911 and have the Naperville cops arrive at the scene faster than Sox security. The bleachers have often been a free-for-all on half-price nights this season and security is nowhere to be found.

I disagree, there was a minor disturbance in the left field bleachers in the 9th inning on Tuesday, and from the concourse, I could see 8-10 security people keeping an eye on it, in case it got out of hand. The do seem slow to respond, but do you want security charging into the stands for every little thing?

kittle42
08-18-2005, 10:25 AM
I think stupidity has as big a role as alcohol. Most people after even several beers won't go onto the field - it takes an element of stupidity most fans (thankfully) lack. Also most stupid fans won't go onto the field without either getting boozed up or having their stupidity multiplied by the stupid people around the idiot egging them on. Case in point the stupid sober 18 year old who jumped on the net at Yankee Stadium to see if it could hold his weight.

Unlike the other incidents (the most serious of which was Gamboa) this incident could have caused fatalities above and beyond the moron who jumped (after he lands on and kills/ seriously hurts those below). No alcohol was involved. Vast quantities of stupidity, however, were on hand. I am waiting for the lawsuit against the Yankees for not doing more to "prevent this tragedy" from the idiot who jumped and or his parents.

Stupid is as stupid does. Alcohol may impear judgment but when it comes to the seriously stupid among us said judgment is already gone.

You are, of course, correct, but given that the populace isn't getting smarter anytime soon, the rest of us have to suffer. Everything boils down to the lowest common denominator.

mweflen
08-18-2005, 11:08 AM
You want to know where security is nearly non-existent? In the Upper Deck. There are precious few ushers there, too.

But far from being the lawless, Lord Of The Flies experience that some here seem to be saying of upper deck patrons, it's actually much more civilized than the LD. Much less swearing, rowdyism, and the like.

It's one of the reasons I like it up there. No jerks with the money or the desire to gorge themselves on half a dozen $5.75 beers, just families and hard core baseball fans who want to watch the game. No concessionaires endlessly blocking my view.

I am not advocating buying an UD ticket and "stealing" a LD seat. I just think all these people who are harping about "upgrading" your seat into an otherwise empty section are a bunch of freakin' loons. Get over yourselves! Have some common sense.

Is it wrong if I move into an otherwise unoccupied seat under the UD roof to avoid the rain? To get away from a big crowd? To sit in the shade on a hot day? Is it wrong to move down close to the exit into empty seats which have already been vacated by their purchasers in the 8th inning?

Is it wrong to do what I've done several times - move from 150 in the LD to sit on the shady side of the UD? Are we allowed to "downgrade" our seats, or is that also strictly verboten by the WSI Ticket Gestapo?

Despite being an uncouth, lower-class UD slob, I have attended several symphonies in Chicago. You know what they do? When they see obviously unoccupied seats, the Ushers approach patrons in cheaper seats and ask them if they'd like to move up. It happened to me at my last concert. You know how it made me feel? It made me want to go back.

You know what that is? Customer service. Common sense. Something which is in precious short supply both at Comiskey and here on this site.

itsnotrequired
08-18-2005, 11:31 AM
You want to know where security is nearly non-existent? In the Upper Deck. There are precious few ushers there, too.

But far from being the lawless, Lord Of The Flies experience that some here seem to be saying of upper deck patrons, it's actually much more civilized than the LD. Much less swearing, rowdyism, and the like.

It's one of the reasons I like it up there. No jerks with the money or the desire to gorge themselves on half a dozen $5.75 beers, just families and hard core baseball fans who want to watch the game. No concessionaires endlessly blocking my view.

I am not advocating buying an UD ticket and "stealing" a LD seat. I just think all these people who are harping about "upgrading" your seat into an otherwise empty section are a bunch of freakin' loons. Get over yourselves! Have some common sense.

Is it wrong if I move into an otherwise unoccupied seat under the UD roof to avoid the rain? To get away from a big crowd? To sit in the shade on a hot day? Is it wrong to move down close to the exit into empty seats which have already been vacated by their purchasers in the 8th inning?

Is it wrong to do what I've done several times - move from 150 in the LD to sit on the shady side of the UD? Are we allowed to "downgrade" our seats, or is that also strictly verboten by the WSI Ticket Gestapo?

Despite being an uncouth, lower-class UD slob, I have attended several symphonies in Chicago. You know what they do? When they see obviously unoccupied seats, the Ushers approach patrons in cheaper seats and ask them if they'd like to move up. It happened to me at my last concert. You know how it made me feel? It made me want to go back.

You know what that is? Customer service. Common sense. Something which is in precious short supply both at Comiskey and here on this site.

Excellent post. Simply excellent.:cool:

mweflen
08-18-2005, 11:34 AM
as "outrageously spurious" as reinforcing your point by bringing in Plato's republic???
Sit in the seat you paid for. If I were to pay for an expensive seat down low and you were to freeload off of me, that is your moral choice. But how can you possibly justify your right to sit there? If someone were to bother me in the slightest way and ruin that experience which I paid and they did not, then I would feel more than right to ask them to leave. This being said if they were being totally harmless and not bothering myself I would not bother them, and let them sit there. Although they are responsible for their actions in those seats, and they should understand the usher is probably somewhat responsible for their actions in those seats as well to a certain extent

The argument for situational morality in Plato's Republic is directly applicable to the "seat upgrade" conundrum, while post-9/11 security concerns are not.

Your next paragraph, in which you state "if they were being totally harmless and not bothering myself I would not bother them, and let them sit there," might as well have been written by me. I mean, if you want to prove my points, go ahead. It just might be confusing to some if you profess to disagree with me while you do.

I am not saying the "upgrader" has a "right" to sit in his unticketed seat. I am saying that common sense dictates that, if the seat is unoccupied, and the person does not disrupt the experience of anyone else in the section, there is no harm in letting the person sit there.

Jerko
08-18-2005, 11:38 AM
Moving around within levels is one thing. I don't get it, but whatever. Buying an UD ticket and sneaking down into the LD is another matter. I remember all the Saturday games in my weekend package before the UD policy was in place; the LD concourse was a freakin zoo with people pissing all over the place inside (and outside) of bathrooms and it was really unpleasant. It would be 1000 times worse now. The Cell seats what, 35 something thousand comfortably? Let's keep it that way.

mweflen
08-18-2005, 11:40 AM
The Cell seats what, 35 something thousand comfortably? Let's keep it that way.

Capacity is 40,600. Attendance totals are always announced at 35-37,000 because of comp tickets which are not counted. "Comfortably" is subject to debate.

JimH
08-18-2005, 11:50 AM
But far from being the lawless, Lord Of The Flies experience that some here seem to be saying of upper deck patrons, it's actually much more civilized than the LD. Much less swearing, rowdyism, and the like.

It's one of the reasons I like it up there. No jerks with the money or the desire to gorge themselves on half a dozen $5.75 beers, just families and hard core baseball fans who want to watch the game. No concessionaires endlessly blocking my view.

I am not advocating buying an UD ticket and "stealing" a LD seat. I just think all these people who are harping about "upgrading" your seat into an otherwise empty section are a bunch of freakin' loons. Get over yourselves! Have some common sense.

Is it wrong if I move into an otherwise unoccupied seat under the UD roof to avoid the rain? To get away from a big crowd? To sit in the shade on a hot day? Is it wrong to move down close to the exit into empty seats which have already been vacated by their purchasers in the 8th inning?

Is it wrong to do what I've done several times - move from 150 in the LD to sit on the shady side of the UD? Are we allowed to "downgrade" our seats, or is that also strictly verboten by the WSI Ticket Gestapo?

Despite being an uncouth, lower-class UD slob, I have attended several symphonies in Chicago. You know what they do? When they see obviously unoccupied seats, the Ushers approach patrons in cheaper seats and ask them if they'd like to move up. It happened to me at my last concert. You know how it made me feel? It made me want to go back.

You know what that is? Customer service. Common sense. Something which is in precious short supply both at Comiskey and here on this site.

A couple of things here.

The usher in question here patrolled a section right behind the Sox dugout, and was being diligent about seat squatters. To me, that is common sense on the part of security. If people are drunk let's say, the potential for a serious PR problem is if something happens to a player, or coach. Which it already did, see Tom Gamboa.

Security appears to be applying common sense by being more vigilant in protecting areas near the players vs. someone down the RF line sliding over a few seats to sit near an aisle. They're more diligent about patrolling certain areas with closer access to players/coaches than other areas. That's common sense. What's the problem with that? To me, none.

Second, I didn't see anyone here broad brush painting upper deck patrons as 2nd class citizens, but you sure seem to be taking your share of potshots at people who either like, or can afford lower deck seats. I don't see the point or the rationale for doing that.

mweflen
08-18-2005, 11:57 AM
Second, I didn't see anyone here broad brush painting upper deck patrons as 2nd class citizens, but you sure seem to be taking your share of potshots at people who either like, or can afford lower deck seats. I don't see the point or the rationale for doing that.

You're right, I'm getting my dander up a bit. I am a bit of an abrasive potshot taker when the argument gets heated :redface:

I am just being a bit "overzealous" in making my point that there is actually worse behavior evident in the LD than the UD (which I witness over and over firsthand, since my games are split nearly evenly between the two), while people are arguing for limiting UD ticketholder access for "security" reasons.