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View Full Version : Should Dustin Remain Closer?


DickAllen72
08-16-2005, 11:37 PM
I'm not sure it's wise to rely on a closer whose bad back doesn't allow him to pitch often enough to remain sharp. Of course, it's not Dustin's fault but that's the way it is.

Dustin originally was brought in as a set up or swing man. The way Jenks has been pitching, maybe he should be the Sox closer from now on. If not Jenks, then someone else whom Ozzie can rely upon to pitch the entire ninth inning every night in save situations.

Chisox003
08-16-2005, 11:42 PM
If you're talking about removing Dustin from the role permanently, I think you're nuts....

But to rest his back and get ready for October.....Eh, looks like that's what needs to be done, and Jenks is the obvious choice, with Cotts a close 2nd, to fill in....

But barring any further injury, Hermanson is the closer....Plain and simple

SouthSide_HitMen
08-16-2005, 11:45 PM
back surgery to clear up his back problems - that is if he makes it to the offseason with his back.

The only way you "demote" Hermanson is if he is unable to go physically and then he would go to the DL - not pitch in a different role.

I am glad we have two or three good options (Politte, Jenks, Marte) if need be.

MUsoxfan
08-16-2005, 11:47 PM
Two blown saves in 32 chances and you're ready to play switch-a-roo with a rookie? No, thanks Maybe Torre is thinking of making Sturtze the closer in NY because Rivera blew a save

DickAllen72
08-16-2005, 11:56 PM
The only way you "demote" Hermanson is if he is unable to go physically and then he would go to the DL - not pitch in a different role.


The present situation is some days he is physically unable to go, other days he's able. I'm questioning whether or not it's wise to rely on a closer in that condition.

If he's off for a number of days because of his back, it's hard to expect him to be sharp when he finally does take the mound. Also, it seems Ozzie often tries to avoid using him but then is forced to bring him in for an out or two.

I'm suggesting maybe it's better to have a closer Ozzie can rely on to pitch the entire ninth inning day in and day out in save situations instead of always having to consider the status of his back. It certainly would stabilize the bullpen and define the other pitcher's roles which helps them also.

DickAllen72
08-16-2005, 11:57 PM
Two blown saves in 32 chances and you're ready to play switch-a-roo with a rookie? No, thanks Maybe Torre is thinking of making Sturtze the closer in NY because Rivera blew a save

I didn't hear Rivera hurt his back. When did that happen?

It must be tough on a manager coming to the park every day having to wonder if his closer is going to be able to pitch that day or not because of a chronic back problem.

Optipessimism
08-17-2005, 01:12 AM
Two blown saves in 32 chances and you're ready to play switch-a-roo with a rookie? No, thanks Maybe Torre is thinking of making Sturtze the closer in NY because Rivera blew a save

It's not switcharoo. It's a combination of filling a spot currently taken by an injured veteran by a younger player with a much higher ceiling and also an adjustment period for Jenks. It also allows the orgainzation to further evalute the closer situation heading into the playoffs.

If Jenks fills Hermie's role, Jenks is not going to be pushed out until he shows he can't handle it anymore. That said, who would you rather see facing Ortiz-Ramirez-Nixon in the bottom of the ninth while your team clutches to a one run lead? Aching Hermanson who pitches on guts and gets a lot of groundballs and popups, or a healthy and filthy Bobby Jenks who gets lots of K's?

Chips
08-17-2005, 01:24 AM
No reason to take the closers role away from him. But resting his aching back would be a great idea. The way Jenks picthed tonight, I think he can handle closing game while Hermanson gets healthy

ZachAL
08-17-2005, 01:28 AM
I'd have to agree here, his back condition we've been told is nothing which can be healed by rest. We've also been told that he pitches through extreme pain. He has been great, no doubt, but can we count on him to be there? I mean as you saw in NY Ozzie was even hesitant to let our "closer" go in for the whole 9th inning, which should show us something. He's been great, but maybe for his own good and the good of the team, we should try with jenks.

SouthSide_HitMen
08-17-2005, 01:41 AM
I'd have to agree here, his back condition we've been told is nothing which can be healed by rest.

Is that true - Is Ozzie holding him out of games on days when his back is acting up or does he hold them out to give him a few days to lesson the inflammation? I thought by resting him for a few days his back feels better and he is more effective and that he is being held out (if possible) on days his back acts up as well as on days we can use someone else to rest his back so he can make it through the season without the surgery which is needed to fix his back issues.

TheOldRoman
08-17-2005, 02:00 AM
Is that true - Is Ozzie holding him out of games on days when his back is acting up or does he hold them out to give him a few days to lesson the inflammation? I thought by resting him for a few days his back feels better and he is more effective and that he is being held out (if possible) on days his back acts up as well as on days we can use someone else to rest his back so he can make it through the season without the surgery which is needed to fix his back issues.
:hawk
"Your what hurts?"

JRIG
08-17-2005, 05:42 AM
With a bad back, I would imagine closer is the perfect role for him. He knows exactly when he has to enter a game. He knows he will never have to pitch more than an inning. And he's been very successful so far this year.

DickAllen72
08-24-2005, 09:56 PM
The Sox need a healthy closer whom they can rely upon to pitch the entire ninth inning, day in and day out. It's what's best for the team, not the individual player that matters.

Cotts or Jenks should be the closer from now on.

Tragg
08-24-2005, 09:58 PM
He's a damn good closer and the best we have. He needs a lot of rest which is a problem (Rivera can pitch 3 days in a row, no problem) - so we have to use other guys and get them ready as well. But as a closer, I haven't seen anyone better on this team.

kevingrt
08-24-2005, 10:05 PM
Until Hermanson physically goes on the DL and says he cannot play until next season he is our closer. I do not trust Marte or a rookie in Jenks at all. And Polittle is a very good set-up man, and Cotts I just don't think fits a closer role. And oh Jon Adkins, lol thats all

DickAllen72
08-24-2005, 10:10 PM
He's a damn good closer and the best we have. He needs a lot of rest which is a problem (Rivera can pitch 3 days in a row, no problem) - so we have to use other guys and get them ready as well. But as a closer, I haven't seen anyone better on this team.

He's a damn good closer when his back allows him to pitch enough to remain sharp.

He's not that good when he can't pitch, or when he comes in rusty because it's the first day he feels well enough to pitch in a while.

A closer is supposed to be able to pitch three days in a row, or at least three to four times a week on a regular basis. Dustin's back is preventing him from doing that.

Ol' No. 2
08-24-2005, 10:17 PM
Ozzie hasn't been holding him out because of his back. He's a CLOSER. They lost 8 out of 9. He looked rusty tonight, but that's all.

infohawk
08-24-2005, 10:38 PM
Ozzie hasn't been holding him out because of his back. He's a CLOSER. They lost 8 out of 9. He looked rusty tonight, but that's all.

I agree. Neither Dustin nor Cliff have gotten much work lately because of the losing streak. Cliff was up in the zone. Dustin did alright. He gave up that double but retired two out of the three batters he faced. I thought it was psychological redemption to get Cuddyer for the final out.

I really think Ozzie went with Cliff to get his some work, not because he didn't want to go to Dustin. I thought Hawk said that both Marte and Hermy were throwing the entire (brief) time Cliff was in. I'll bet that Ozzie was hoping Cliff would get the first two batters out, at which time he would have brought in Marte to face Mauer. Ozzie probably feels he needs to get certain guys in his bullpen some work. As rusty as they looked, maybe it was a good thing he got them a little work (since in retrospect we won despite their struggles).

I sometimes think that the reason Ozzie plays so many match-ups is because our starters typically go deep into the game and he wants to keep the 'pen sharp on limited innings. If so, I understand where he's coming from, but would prefer set guys in certain situations.

For what it's worth, managers always get second-guessed if a player doesn't perform. Twins fans are all over Gardenhire for not pulling Mays before he gave up six runs. They think Gardenhire blew the game considering the Twins scored three in the ninth but were in too much of a hole to pull it out. Whose to say that if the Sox were say, only up a run in the ninth, Hermy doesn't start the inning instead of Politte and retire three straight batters?

When Ozzie sends Cliff out, he expects him to get outs. Ozzie has every reason to expect Marte to get the lefty out. Hindsight is 20/20. I wonder what Twins fans would say if Gardenhire pulled Mays earlier, used the bullpen for several innings only to lose the game anyway as well as the next game because the bullpen was tired?

I_Liked_Manuel
08-24-2005, 10:52 PM
closing is more mental than it is physical. there's no way i would put a rookie in over d herm

Tragg
08-24-2005, 10:52 PM
He's a damn good closer when his back allows him to pitch enough to remain sharp.

He's not that good when he can't pitch, or when he comes in rusty because it's the first day he feels well enough to pitch in a while.

A closer is supposed to be able to pitch three days in a row, or at least three to four times a week on a regular basis. Dustin's back is preventing him from doing that.

Who do you suggest close?
Some Middle relievers typically have more appearances than closers anyway.

chisoxfanatic
08-25-2005, 12:04 AM
Because Hermanson's been solid for the team this year, I'd keep him as our closer unless his back gives up on him. At that moment, he would go to middle relief, while Jenks could close. But, no, I would not do a "closer by committee" thing here with our bullpen. Keep Hermie in there until he can't do it anymore.

Optipessimism
08-25-2005, 12:10 AM
closing is more mental than it is physical

I wouldn't agree with that at all. You need to have both, especially to close or pitch in any tight situations in the Majors. As much as I like Dustin, right now he doesn't have it. He's hurt and he's missing with his pitches up and over the plate. Politte, Marte, and Cotts IMO are best off staying where they are at, so I think Jenks is the answer here. Not only is he throwing very well but he has shown so far that he has the mental capabilities to handle the role.

I think a lot of the people here don't want to see Jenks moved into the role so soon because they have that feeling that he is being rushed. In fact, the Sox organization as a whole often gets bashed for rushing players, especially pitchers. The fact is, some kids are ready to play and when they consistently perform above your expectations there is no reason to hold them back. Last year people said the Sox 'rushed' Felix Diaz and Arnie Munoz for example, but as it has turned out, neither are good enough to be in the starting rotation of any contending ballclub for at least a while, if at all. It's not that they were misused. They just can't handle Major League hitting. Some guys are just ready, and until Bobby shows that he isn't ready, I say throw him out there.

Jenks has a bright future as a closer. He has shown so far that he can get it done when it counts. Our closer is not at his best right now, so why hold him back? I don't get it.