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Pulaski
08-16-2005, 10:56 AM
Last night was a complete embarrassment. What happened to playing smart baseball? There were some many mental breakdowns. The team has been playing awful the last three weeks. We were lucky in NYC.

Last nights breakdown.
1. Kornerko pops up to 1B with a hit and run on. All he does is strikeout, hit a home run or pop up in the infield.
2. Crede's throw to 1b
3. Crede almost blocking Uribe's throwing angle to 1b.
4. Dye's throw to home plate
5. Crede not covering 3B when a runner was stealing
6. Kornerko swing a high fastball (even Sosa would not have swung)
7. Crede's terrible slide in to home plate. WHY NOT RUN OVER THE CATCHER?
8. Kornerko not running out of the box once he hit the ball to left field
9. Kornerko stops running on his way to 2b and then gets called out

Is anyone else concerned with the way we have been playing? Ihope we get out of this funk. The players need to refocus and get after the Central.

LuvSox
08-16-2005, 10:59 AM
What was wrong with Dye's throw to home?

cheeses_h_rice
08-16-2005, 11:05 AM
I try not to make broad generalizations based on 1/162th of the season, but that's just me.

dcb33
08-16-2005, 11:06 AM
Last night was a complete embarrassment. What happened to playing smart baseball? There were some many mental breakdowns. The team has been playing awful the last three weeks. We were lucky in NYC.

Last nights breakdown.
1. Kornerko pops up to 1B with a hit and run on. All he does is strikeout, hit a home run or pop up in the infield.
2. Crede's throw to 1b
3. Crede almost blocking Uribe's throwing angle to 1b.
4. Dye's throw to home plate
5. Crede not covering 3B when a runner was stealing
6. Kornerko swing a high fastball (even Sosa would not have swung)
7. Crede's terrible slide in to home plate. WHY NOT RUN OVER THE CATCHER?
8. Kornerko not running out of the box once he hit the ball to left field
9. Kornerko stops running on his way to 2b and then gets called out

Is anyone else concerned with the way we have been playing? Ihope we get out of this funk. The players need to refocus and get after the Central.

The Sox are 10-9 in the last three weeks. What's so awful about that?

I don't know about you, but I for one am really clamoring for the days when a Sox slump meant losing something along the lines of 10 out of 12 instead of playing .500 ball. Get a grip, man.

RMSoxFan
08-16-2005, 11:18 AM
He's got a point. The Sox haven't been playing very well since the break. If this is just a slump, fine. But even though .500 ball for the rest of the season will probably still get the division, it means that they've lost something that they'll need in the playoffs. Sure, this is no slump compared to years past, but who wants to compare this team to years past?

kittle42
08-16-2005, 11:25 AM
Ask shoota what's wrong with Crede.

SoxFan76
08-16-2005, 11:29 AM
The Sox are 10-9 in the last three weeks. What's so awful about that?

I don't know about you, but I for one am really clamoring for the days when a Sox slump meant losing something along the lines of 10 out of 12 instead of playing just .500 ball. Get a grip, man.

Thanks for putting it in perspective. I've been so pissed the last few weeks, but I didn't realize they are actually 1 game over.

TomBradley72
08-16-2005, 11:29 AM
Last night was a complete embarrassment. What happened to playing smart baseball? There were some many mental breakdowns. The team has been playing awful the last three weeks. We were lucky in NYC.

Last nights breakdown.
1. Kornerko pops up to 1B with a hit and run on. All he does is strikeout, hit a home run or pop up in the infield.
2. Crede's throw to 1b
3. Crede almost blocking Uribe's throwing angle to 1b.
4. Dye's throw to home plate
5. Crede not covering 3B when a runner was stealing
6. Kornerko swing a high fastball (even Sosa would not have swung)
7. Crede's terrible slide in to home plate. WHY NOT RUN OVER THE CATCHER?
8. Kornerko not running out of the box once he hit the ball to left field
9. Kornerko stops running on his way to 2b and then gets called out

Is anyone else concerned with the way we have been playing? Ihope we get out of this funk. The players need to refocus and get after the Central.

I think these are very valid points...every team has there slumps/down times...and while the win/loss record over the past few weeks isn't horrible...I think that's where the team is right now.

Ozzie seems to have abandoned "small ball"....early in the season...whenever we got the lead off runner on base...we were either bunting or stealing to advance him. Now Ozzie seems to almost never do that....I think he needs to get back to small ball.

Pulaski
08-16-2005, 11:47 AM
I think these are very valid points...every team has there slumps/down times...and while the win/loss record over the past few weeks isn't horrible...I think that's where the team is right now.

Ozzie seems to have abandoned "small ball"....early in the season...whenever we got the lead off runner on base...we were either bunting or stealing to advance him. Now Ozzie seems to almost never do that....I think he needs to get back to small ball.

It appears we have lost some focus. It began when Oakland came to town before the All-Star. If it wasn't for the way we played in Cleveland our after the break record would not be good.

There is something definitely missing from the team. There is no drive and momentum. I just hope the ship gets corrected in the next few weeks.

LVSoxFan
08-16-2005, 11:54 AM
I agree that we've been abandoning small ball and that's not good.

I also TOTALLY agree when he asks: why did Crede not run over the catcher? I was waiting for that. Instead, he meekly tried to run around him. Had he bowled him over, he probably would've scored. Hey, Torii Hunter didn't hesitate...

kittle42
08-16-2005, 12:03 PM
Thanks for putting it in perspective. I've been so pissed the last few weeks, but I didn't realize they are actually 1 game over.

Good point. Doesn't it just *seem* like they're something like 10 under over the last month at times? I think we got spoiled by the first 3-4 months.

RedHeadPaleHoser
08-16-2005, 12:14 PM
He's got a point. The Sox haven't been playing very well since the break. If this is just a slump, fine. But even though .500 ball for the rest of the season will probably still get the division, it means that they've lost something that they'll need in the playoffs. Sure, this is no slump compared to years past, but who wants to compare this team to years past?

Breathe people....breathe....

RallyBowl
08-16-2005, 12:17 PM
Last night was a complete embarrassment. What happened to playing smart baseball? There were some many mental breakdowns. The team has been playing awful the last three weeks. We were lucky in NYC.

Last nights breakdown.
1. Kornerko pops up to 1B with a hit and run on. All he does is strikeout, hit a home run or pop up in the infield.
2. Crede's throw to 1b
3. Crede almost blocking Uribe's throwing angle to 1b.
4. Dye's throw to home plate
5. Crede not covering 3B when a runner was stealing
6. Kornerko swing a high fastball (even Sosa would not have swung)
7. Crede's terrible slide in to home plate. WHY NOT RUN OVER THE CATCHER?
8. Kornerko not running out of the box once he hit the ball to left field
9. Kornerko stops running on his way to 2b and then gets called out

Is anyone else concerned with the way we have been playing? Ihope we get out of this funk. The players need to refocus and get after the Central.
:threadblows:
Sir, I believe ESPN is hiring.

Lip Man 1
08-16-2005, 12:27 PM
I think the injury to Frank Thomas was the biggest reason for the difference. Even with a bad leg Frank was getting on base and driving in runs... he also provided protection for the hitters around him. The offense simply hasn't been the same without him and that's not meant as a slap to guys like Konerko and Everett.

The other reason is that it's hard to play Ozzie's style when no one gets on base. That's where Posednik's injury factors in. It was affecting his hitting, when he tried to run he didn't have the same burst and was getting thrown out stealing. Ozzie may have gone into a shell because honestly what are his options?

You can't force someone into the role who doesn't know how to handle it or doesn't have the talent to handle it.

The other factor has been the nagging injuries that have suddenly hit the club. In addition to Frank's serious one and Posednik's you have the backs of Crede and Hermanson (which may be why Joe didn't try to knock over the catcher, it's not worth the risk right now in my opinion. October however is a different story.) and Everett's groin they all factor in.

Lip

mweflen
08-16-2005, 12:30 PM
:timo:

oeo
08-16-2005, 12:38 PM
Ozzie may have gone into a shell because honestly what are his options?

Well I remember at least one time when Uribe was on first that Ozzie could have had him running...Carl was on first twice. It puts pressure on the pitcher and it just seems to me like they don't try to do as much when Ozzie is having them run. When was the last time we saw this? Maybe I'm asking for too much, but that Indians series after the break was remarkable, the way we played. Ozzie had EVERYONE moving...I love that, put the pressure on.

Dan H
08-16-2005, 12:41 PM
I agree with Lip. Injuries are playing a big role with the club right now. And if players can't get healthy by playoff time, this won't be the same team that got off to such a great start this season.

Some optimists are lashing out because they think everything is just fine and others are overracting. Maybe there is some typical Chicago baseball fan nernous Nellie stuff happening. But if your third baseman and closer have bad backs, your lead off man is on the DL, and your DH can barely make it to first base, there is plenty of reason for concern. Just watching Perez and Ozuna try to be leadoff men should have anyone concerned.

TornLabrum
08-16-2005, 12:44 PM
I agree that we've been abandoning small ball and that's not good.

I also TOTALLY agree when he asks: why did Crede not run over the catcher? I was waiting for that. Instead, he meekly tried to run around him. Had he bowled him over, he probably would've scored. Hey, Torii Hunter didn't hesitate...

Yeah, a guy with two herniated discs should always run over the catcher. It might jolt those discs back where they belong!

:darkcloud:

RMSoxFan
08-16-2005, 12:49 PM
Breathe people....breathe....

It's fine to relax and be happy if all you want is a team that is better than the last few years' teams. But if you're interested in a World Championship, even a little bit of mediocrity can be a problem. Now, I'm not saying the Sox are screwed, or even that they must win every day. I do, however, think that it is very important to carry momentum into the postseason. If the Sox play .500 ball for the next four weeks, then .800 for the final two, I would be quite happy. We all know what happened in 2000 when the Sox played awesome in May and June, then limped into October.

Hangar18
08-16-2005, 01:20 PM
This is very disheartening to see us playing this way and becoming more inconsistent on offense. The only thing good about us, is our starting pitching has been SUPERB, and our offense So-So. Its allowed us to win
a great number of games. Ive been worried about our anemic hitting, top
of the lineup has been superb, but Konerko has been the worse Make-Conact hitter we have, while Jermaine Dye basically took April, May and June off.
This kind of team, has to have hitters who MAKE CONTACT (not strikeout), PUT THE BALL IN PLAY (not ground out to pitcher, pop bunt up), and play SMART BALL (not get doubled off). We sacrificed alot of OFFENSE in the name of payroll/pitching, we crossed our fingers and hoped nothing happened to our Pitchers AND Scott Podsednik and Iguchi (Pods is our MVP by the way).

We went from a One-Dimensional ALL-HITTING team to a One-Dimensional ALL-PITCHING team. Ive always said a BALANCED HITTING and PITCHING team wins games. Now, our pitchers are having a little slump, and the hitters are showing they cant come thru and carry us for a while. We need our Pitchers to be in Top Form ........... soooooon.

maurice
08-16-2005, 01:33 PM
There's no question that Crede should have taken a shot at Mauer, not only because of the Toriiii-Burke fiasco, but also because the timing of the play dictated it. He had a really, really bad day. Hopefully, he can shake it off and pick it up today.

On a somewhat related note, the Twins' SS has to be the worst defensive SS I've ever seen in a professional game -- even worse than Upton. It's no wonder that they're struggling this year. Thank God we have a defensive star like Uribe.

Ol' No. 2
08-16-2005, 01:42 PM
I think these are very valid points...every team has there slumps/down times...and while the win/loss record over the past few weeks isn't horrible...I think that's where the team is right now.

Ozzie seems to have abandoned "small ball"....early in the season...whenever we got the lead off runner on base...we were either bunting or stealing to advance him. Now Ozzie seems to almost never do that....I think he needs to get back to small ball.It's rather hard to play small ball when you've replaced Podsednik and Iguchi with Perez and Blum.:(:

TomBradley72
08-16-2005, 02:01 PM
It's rather hard to play small ball when you've replaced Podsednik and Iguchi with Perez and Blum.:(:

Not looking to overstate it....but the one thing you can control regardless of injuries, etc...is still moving lead off runners over via the bunt. We got the lead off runner on last night when it was still 0-0...and Ozzie has Crede swinging away (he struck out) vs. dropping a bunt. Early in the year we scratched like hell to get the first run....we've really moved away from that approach.

maurice
08-16-2005, 02:06 PM
Crede can't bunt. Blame Crede for that, not Ozzie.

CYGarland20
08-16-2005, 02:12 PM
It appears we have lost some focus. It began when Oakland came to town before the All-Star. If it wasn't for the way we played in Cleveland our after the break record would not be good.

There is something definitely missing from the team. There is no drive and momentum. I just hope the ship gets corrected in the next few weeks. I agree this has not been the same team since before the break. They look very complacent, are swinging for the fences nearly every ab, and have abandoned the fundamentals....... I guess this is what happens when you have such a big lead in the division. Now i'm not too worried about them making the playoffs, but i'm very concerned as to how they will do when they get there, if they keep playing like this.

ma-gaga
08-16-2005, 02:14 PM
They are "coasting". I know there are still 40+ games to go, but I expect the W.Sox to mail it in a bit to try and get healthy.

Expect this to continue up until about 2-3 weeks to go in the season, then the intensity should slowly ramp up so you hit the playoffs at full speed.

At least, that's what I would try to do. :cool:

Georgey3085
08-16-2005, 02:17 PM
Hey, I'd rather see the Sox go on their slump now and be a .500 team for a bit then go into the playoffs with this slump, I think this is a perfect time for a slump and some of these minor injuries we are having with Pods and Hermie. Look at 2000, we went into the playoffs pretty high, but we went in with major injuries too, I just hope nothing major happens till we get into the playoffs. And right now, hey, its ok to lose a couple, just don't do it in October when it really counts. :smile:

Paulwny
08-16-2005, 02:18 PM
Crede can't bunt. Blame Crede for that, not Ozzie.

I never understood this change, at one time every minor league player was taught how to lay down a sac bunt. It appears they only teach the "art" to singles hitters, or don't some of these guys care how to learn how to bunt.

maurice
08-16-2005, 02:22 PM
I'm sure Crede was taught to bunt in the minors and made to practice it in the spring, but coming up in the minors he probably wasn't called on to bunt in games. For whatever reason, he still can't do it. That's inexcusable for a #8 hitter who bats .240 and plays on a "smart ball" team.

BeviBall!
08-16-2005, 02:22 PM
Crede can't bunt. Blame Crede for that, not Ozzie.

You'd think a 9th place hitter should know how to bunt. We might as well put Crede on the DL as well and let Blum play for 2 weeks. We'll need the A team for a good month and a half come Sept.

Pulaski
08-16-2005, 02:38 PM
You'd think a 9th place hitter should know how to bunt. We might as well put Crede on the DL as well and let Blum play for 2 weeks. We'll need the A team for a good month and a half come Sept.

How about have Garland bunt for Crede? Garland was our best bunter last year.

Obviously I am kidding and making fun of Crede's ability to lay down a bunt.

Didn't the Twinkies catcher lay down a bunt and beat out the throw?

Argalarga
08-16-2005, 02:41 PM
I'm not worried now. But if we get another few weeks of listless, .500 ball...then I'll worry.

There has to be a way to give guys days off and let the minor injuries heal while still playing tough, aggressive ball.

russ99
08-16-2005, 02:44 PM
I agree that we've been abandoning small ball and that's not good.

I also TOTALLY agree when he asks: why did Crede not run over the catcher? I was waiting for that. Instead, he meekly tried to run around him. Had he bowled him over, he probably would've scored. Hey, Torii Hunter didn't hesitate...

Yeah, run over the 6-4 220lb Mauer, then Crede's back will go out and we lose our starting 3B for the season over an almost meaningless game.

Ol' No. 2
08-16-2005, 02:45 PM
I'm not worried now. But if we get another few weeks of listless, .500 ball...then I'll worry.

There has to be a way to give guys days off and let the minor injuries heal while still playing tough, aggressive ball.I think we're seeing just how much the offense depends on Podsednik and Iguchi at the top of the order to light the fuse. Make sure they're good and rested for the playoffs. I'd rather see this now than in October.

ChicagoHoosier
08-16-2005, 02:49 PM
I think we're seeing just how much the offense depends on Podsednik and Iguchi at the top of the order to light the fuse. Make sure they're good and rested for the playoffs. I'd rather see this now than in October.
I said the exact same thing to my wife as we were leaving the ballpark last night. They start the wheel in motion, then others join in the momentum. I hope that what we've seen the last month or so is just grinding thru the dog days and we regain our focus and health later in September. I don't think the sky is falling, but I think everyone has to agree we're not nearly as good of a team right now as we were earlier this year. Question is: will we regain that focus and quit makign some of the mistakes we didn't make in the first half of the season?

Ol' No. 2
08-16-2005, 02:52 PM
I said the exact same thing to my wife as we were leaving the ballpark last night. They start the wheel in motion, then others join in the momentum. I hope that what we've seen the last month or so is just grinding thru the dog days and we regain our focus and health later in September. I don't think the sky is falling, but I think everyone has to agree we're not nearly as good of a team right now as we were earlier this year. Question is: will we regain that focus and quit makign some of the mistakes we didn't make in the first half of the season?I believe Ozzie has his finger on the pulse of the team. And he's the unquestioned leader. I'd guess he's going to try to rest his key guys as much as possible through the beginning of September, then start to build momentum as the playoffs approach. As he ratchets up the intensity, the team will follow.

LVSoxFan
08-16-2005, 03:14 PM
Yeah, run over the 6-4 220lb Mauer, then Crede's back will go out and we lose our starting 3B for the season over an almost meaningless game.

Ahh, bowling him over would've thrown his back out. I see.

Okay. Memo to league: Crede is a lamb at home plate because of his back if the game's not "meaningful." Start those throws comin' home, boys! We got an easy out comin'!

maurice
08-16-2005, 03:19 PM
Mauer is made of glass and wasn't even wearing his mask.

Rowand should be taking his cues from Crede. He should let more doubles fall in near the wall so he doesn't hurt himself.

TaylorStSox
08-16-2005, 03:21 PM
Mauer is made of glass and wasn't even wearing his mask.

Yes, let's lose our 3rd baseman over 1 run to a third place team.

Are you the same guys that criticized Frank for not barrelling over the catcher too?

maurice
08-16-2005, 03:23 PM
It's idiotic to assume that Crede surely would have been lost for the season if he had the balls to make the proper play. What's the evidence that blindsiding a maskless catcher is dangeous to the runner? It's extremely dangerous to the catcher, but the runner essentially gets a free shot and very rarely gets hurt. In fact, off the top of my head, I can't think of a single instance of a runner getting hurt in this situation. OTOH, catchers very famously miss games or even the rest of their careers following homeplate collisions.

TaylorStSox
08-16-2005, 03:26 PM
It's idiotic to assume that Crede surely would have been lost for the season if he had the balls to make the proper play. What's the evidence that blindsiding a maskless catcher is dangeous to the runner? It's extremely dangerous to the catcher, but the runner essentially gets a free shot and very rarely gets hurt.

Was the run important enough to even risk it? You can say alot of things about Crede but, he never dogs it.

PK, on the other hand, made a hustle mistake. That's unacceptable.

maurice
08-16-2005, 03:31 PM
Was the run important enough to even risk it? You can say alot of things about Crede but, he never dogs it.

Risk what? There's no evidence that it's a risky play for the runner. The cather is the one in danger. Hell, Uribe was in greater danger when he got hit on the hand with a pitch. Does that mean that we should bench him until the playoffs? Just go out and play the game the way you're supposed to every play.

I'm not accusing Crede of dogging it. He just made a mistake, one of many on the day.

nitetrain8601
08-16-2005, 03:37 PM
I agree that we've been abandoning small ball and that's not good.

I also TOTALLY agree when he asks: why did Crede not run over the catcher? I was waiting for that. Instead, he meekly tried to run around him. Had he bowled him over, he probably would've scored. Hey, Torii Hunter didn't hesitate...

2 herniated discs will stop even you from doing that. I would say we definately need to get back to small ball. I guess no matter who the manager, Official Corpseball Season is back in effect starting August 1st of every year.

LVSoxFan
08-16-2005, 03:44 PM
Whatever! Everybody's getting sidelined on whether Crede is well enough to plow over a catcher, which isn't the point.

The point was: the first half, we seemed to want to win games--stealing bases, bunting, scrapping, etc. Of late (maybe it's just that time of year, who knows?) we seem to just lie down.

Like somebody else here said: when I see a 3-0 score or 4-0 score, either here or like in Boston, I start cleaning or doing something else because I know we're not going to pull it out. Not a lot of fire there right now. Everybody's just sort of ho-hum.

It's time for an Ozzie tantrum!

nitetrain8601
08-16-2005, 03:45 PM
Whatever! Everybody's getting sidelined on whether Crede is well enough to plow over a catcher, which isn't the point.

The point was: the first half, we seemed to want to win games--stealing bases, bunting, scrapping, etc. Of late (maybe it's just that time of year, who knows?) we seem to just lie down.

Like somebody else here said: when I see a 3-0 score or 4-0 score, either here or like in Boston, I start cleaning or doing something else because I know we're not going to pull it out. Not a lot of fire there right now. Everybody's just sort of ho-hum.

It's time for an Ozzie tantrum!

I agree strongly. Before when we were down in games, you would feel we're going to comeback and at least make it close. Nowadays, no smallball, bad execution and pitching doing way worse than it was before, plus the injuries - if we're not winning early, we're going to lose pretty much.

BeviBall!
08-16-2005, 03:53 PM
I agree strongly. Before when we were down in games, you would feel we're going to comeback and at least make it close. Nowadays, no smallball, bad execution and pitching doing way worse than it was before, plus the injuries - if we're not winning early, we're going to lose pretty much.

I somewhat agree with this too. I think last night's 8th inning proves this point moreso than anything else. Unless we get back to smartball... it's 2004 until further notice.

mweflen
08-16-2005, 03:55 PM
ON2 and myself have touched on the main point - one cannot play smallball with a leadoff hitter who owns a .270 OBP.

Ozzie lost that game for us before it began, by batting Timo first. He killed or contributed to killing every rally the Sox had going. I had flashbacks of Royce. At least Manuel never went cream-of-wheat enough to bat Royce first.

Corpseball baserunning by Konerko and Crede just sealed the deal.

Lip Man 1
08-16-2005, 04:22 PM
Georgy:

I think you are confused about how the Sox got into the playoffs in 2000. They didn't go in 'on a high' note. They struggled badly the entire second half because the piching staff was dropping like flies starting with Eldred getting hurt against the Cards right after the All Star break. Baldwin missed a month, Sirotka hurt his arm in his final start and the bullpen was taxed out by trying to take up the slack.

It showed the final week. The Sox went 2-6.

Lip

LVSoxFan
08-16-2005, 04:25 PM
God I hope we don't go limping in like that again!

2000... never again! I couldn't take it!

:?:

Mr. White Sox
08-16-2005, 04:26 PM
Last nights breakdown.
1. Kornerko pops up to 1B with a hit and run on. All he does is strikeout, hit a home run or pop up in the infield.
6. Kornerko swing a high fastball (even Sosa would not have swung)
8. Kornerko not running out of the box once he hit the ball to left field
9. Kornerko stops running on his way to 2b and then gets called out


Pulaski's breakdown.
1. Spelling Konerko "Kornerko"
2. Making long enough lists to dissuade me from reading them, and that's hard to do.

mr_genius
08-16-2005, 04:26 PM
Corpseball baserunning by Konerko and Crede just sealed the deal.

Don't forget about Crede's excellent defense the past month.

he can't hit or field

mr_genius
08-16-2005, 04:30 PM
PK, on the other hand, made a hustle mistake. That's unacceptable.

totally unacceptable, if someone else on the team had done that we would have heard

:walnuts:

"that guy just does stupid things a lot"

JohnBasedowYoda
08-16-2005, 04:30 PM
this is where it went
http://www.goodexperience.com/broken/i/04/04/square_toilet-s.jpg

the past month or so they've been having trouble doing what's made them a hit all year.

mweflen
08-16-2005, 04:48 PM
Now THAT's a toilet! is that one of them there talking japanese models?

Hangar18
08-16-2005, 05:34 PM
Last nite, the TWINS ran all over us, getting on base, just like weve been doing to other teams in April and May .........
I really really really hope we dont end like we did in 2000 ......

It's Time
08-16-2005, 05:35 PM
This Crede bashing is laughable. I tend to think that you should value defense at the hot corner, something Crede brings to the table 90% of the time he's out there. For those of you who value offense so much, Aramis Ramirez can hit with anyone but his defense is just average or below it.

Funny thing is I'd bet most of you would take someone like Ramirez because he can hit, totally over looking the fact his defense might hurt you. Crede is a vacum cleaner, the bashing he takes here is way to over the top.

BeviBall!
08-16-2005, 05:39 PM
Funny thing is I'd bet most of you would take someone like Ramirez because he can hit, totally over looking the fact his defense might hurt you. Crede is a vacum cleaner, the bashing he takes here is way to over the top.

Spoken like a man that has only 4 posts. I believe there's only one, true Crede basher... most have accepted what Joe is and what he'll ever be.

LVSoxFan
08-16-2005, 05:56 PM
I don't bash Crede too much because he is so great at third; although his bat is starting to drive me nuts.

I assign blame to the whole team; and trust me: there's plenty of it to go around. What's so maddening is that Konerko, Uribe and Crede are great defensively but at the plate it's feast or famine with them.

Please, Paulie: how about an opposite field single, for once? Crede: how about the same, instead of a pop out? Uribe: guess what, you don't have to swing at that face-high pitch!

:o:

BeviBall!
08-16-2005, 05:58 PM
If they play like this in a playoff game... this place will go insane... myself most definitely included.

We've been spoiled all year and when you're not getting what you normally receive, you get feisty.

It's Time
08-16-2005, 06:04 PM
IMO, A.J. is the biggest concern come playoff time. The fact that that he and the staff are getting run into the ground is a huge concern. When you are talking about games that will end up 5-4 and 4-3, you have to hold runners on.

A.J. has a weak arm to begin with, add to the fact the starters (Save Buehrle) don't hold runners well and you have a bad mix. If the Sox lose, I'd be willing to bet that they will lose because they will be run out of the ball park.

It's Time
08-16-2005, 06:09 PM
So far this year, A.J. has thrown out 18 of 81 (22%) attempting to steal. That's scary.

maurice
08-16-2005, 06:16 PM
For those of you who value offense so much, Aramis Ramirez can hit with anyone but his defense is just average or below it. Funny thing is I'd bet most of you would take someone like Ramirez because he can hit, totally over looking the fact his defense might hurt you. Crede is a vacum cleaner, the bashing he takes here is way to over the top.

If you're correct that Ramirez (.302 AVE / .359 OBP / .567 SLG) is about an average defender, you'd have to be an idiot to prefer Crede (.243 / .296 / .431). The upgrade from average defense to above-average defense does not remotely make up for the 200 point difference in OPS. They're 3B -- not C or SS.

Besides, the so-called "bashing" in this thread largely is limited to Crede's performance in yesterday's game. I'm sure Crede himself would admit that he had a crappy game. It's been known to happen from time to time.

Man Soo Lee
08-16-2005, 06:41 PM
So far this year, A.J. has thrown out 18 of 81 (22%) attempting to steal. That's scary.

24 of the 63 steals allowed have come with Contreras on the mound, so A.J. had virtually no chance. If you remove Contreras, as they should during the playoffs, A.J.'s percentage and total number of steals allowed are pretty solid.

RallyBowl
08-16-2005, 07:09 PM
:threadblows:
Still. And it's getting worse by the page.

JohnBasedowYoda
08-16-2005, 07:13 PM
:threadblows:
Still. And it's getting worse by the page.

if you're not worried about our current production then you must be high

Argalarga
08-16-2005, 07:13 PM
24 of the 63 steals allowed have come with Contreras on the mound, so A.J. had virtually no chance. If you remove Contreras, as they should during the playoffs, A.J.'s percentage and total number of steals allowed are pretty solid.

Wow. I knew it wasn't just my imagination that teams run wild on us when JC is on the mound.

RallyBowl
08-16-2005, 07:15 PM
:threadsucks
Oh yeah, that's right, I brought him out of retirement.
How about this list- I'll keep it short and sweet-


Some people on this site
1.) Complain way too much
b.) Think they know more about baseball (or anything)
than they actually do

RallyBowl
08-16-2005, 07:19 PM
if you're not worried about our current production then you must be high
I do not mean any disrespect, but I'm sorry John, I'm not worried. Surely I am not the only one who thinks "every little thing is gonna be alright". And I'm not high. Yet. Maybe thats what all the darkclouds need to do is relax, and listen to a little Marley.

JohnBasedowYoda
08-16-2005, 07:35 PM
I do not mean any disrespect, but I'm sorry John, I'm not worried. Surely I am not the only one who thinks "every little thing is gonna be alright". And I'm not high. Yet. Maybe thats what all the darkclouds need to do is relax, and listen to a little Marley.

no disrespect taken man. but i'm very nervous about our ability to score runs. but i do like you're outlook and calm demeanor

Gigantor
08-16-2005, 11:57 PM
Well guys, ive been watching this season progress from the start of the first half (no ****) until now, and I hate to say it, but right now, we are beginning to look like the 2000 squad backing into the playoffs cold as can be, as well as this teams willingness to abondan sound baseball that was played in the first 82 games. No, Im not a dark cloud *******, but, at this point, the writing is on the wall. An example is this, Im really tired of hearing Hawk proclaim in all his wisdom "oh, he had a cookie and couldnt do anything with it/popped it up/just under it etc etc, most coming from Konerko and most coming with runners on base with ZERO to 2 outs. I love this team and maybe Im venting right now, but, for every dark cloud proclaimer, there seems to be those who are blinded by the White Sox first half, well, the first half play is DEAD right now and shows no signs of coming back. Im not pessimistic, just looking at trends and current play.

P.S.-- the second half of the season has been on for a good long while, so .500 ball is the norm right now. Blind unbridled optimism carries as much weight as dark clouds.

Roso.

deck27
08-17-2005, 01:07 AM
"What Happened to Fundamentally Sound Baseball? "

It Gone.

mdep524
08-17-2005, 01:14 AM
Well guys, ive been watching this season progress from the start of the first half (no ****) until now, and I hate to say it, but right now, we are beginning to look like the 2000 squad backing into the playoffs cold as can be, as well as this teams willingness to abondan sound baseball that was played in the first 82 games. No, Im not a dark cloud *******, but, at this point, the writing is on the wall. An example is this, Im really tired of hearing Hawk proclaim in all his wisdom "oh, he had a cookie and couldnt do anything with it/popped it up/just under it etc etc, most coming from Konerko and most coming with runners on base with ZERO to 2 outs. I love this team and maybe Im venting right now, but, for every dark cloud proclaimer, there seems to be those who are blinded by the White Sox first half, well, the first half play is DEAD right now and shows no signs of coming back. Im not pessimistic, just looking at trends and current play.

P.S.-- the second half of the season has been on for a good long while, so .500 ball is the norm right now. Blind unbridled optimism carries as much weight as dark clouds.

Roso. This team is an entirely different team than the 2000 squad in countless different ways- personnel, expectations, confidence, attitude, manager, style. Comparing the two is like apples and oranges, and their playoff approaches will be much different as well. The 2000 Sox were complacent and unconfident. This team, led by Ozzie, will be the exact opposite.

ChiSoxPatF
08-17-2005, 03:36 AM
While I'm not afraid the sky is falling and that the Sox are going to utterly collapse and all the other crap you hear on SportsBlab, the current trends are a little alarming..... we're not playing our own game of ball!

I can take losing or struggling if we're doing it the way we were winning but we're not anymore. It seems like in the last 2-3 weeks the vast majority of our run production has been because of the longball and not because of hitting behind the runnners, bunting, etc. I wish i could pull up some stat but its been pretty evident to anyone watching the games lately. We need to get back to what won games for us earlier.

Maybe its just the lack of a healthy Pods but I can't buy it that he is the only one of the team that makes smallball work or functional, he's just a big part of it.

We need to get back to what we were winning with earlier.