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jdm2662
08-14-2005, 10:20 PM
Dave Winfield...

.283, 465, 1833

162 Game Average:

.283, 25, 100

Career High:

.340, 37, 118

Frank Thomas:

.307, 448, 1465

162 Game Average (prior to this year):

.308, 37, 121

Career High:

.353, 43, 143

Also note that Winfield played in 1,000 more games than Frank. I'm not the biggest baseball expert out there so I wanted to hear other's opinions. Is this a fair comparison, and do you guys think Winfield deserves to be there? It seems to be that if Winfield is there, Frank should be too. What do you guys think?

buehrle4cy05
08-14-2005, 11:15 PM
Dave Winfield...

.283, 465, 1833

162 Game Average:

.283, 25, 100

Career High:

.340, 37, 118

Frank Thomas:

.307, 448, 1465

162 Game Average (prior to this year):

.308, 37, 121

Career High:

.353, 43, 143

Also note that Winfield played in 1,000 more games than Frank. I'm not the biggest baseball expert out there so I wanted to hear other's opinions. Is this a fair comparison, and do you guys think Winfield deserves to be there? It seems to be that if Winfield is there, Frank should be too. What do you guys think?

That's a great comparison. Winfield not only is in the Hall, but he made it on the first ballot. However, he made it in 2001, when the last member of the 500 home run club to make it was Mike Schmidt in 1995 (Eddie Murray was the last to make it in 2003). Let's say Frank retires this year (I hope not). He's going to have to contend with people like Sammy Sosa and Barry Bonds going into the hall ahead of him (assuming they don't get busted for roids). Frank will end up more than 100 HRs behind Shammy and probably 250 behind Bonds. The one consolation is that Frank never used steroids. I think that will have to be the case for Frank making the Hall. I don't think the BBWAA will look back at Winfield and say, "if he made it, then Frank has to make it." Frank's rocky relationship with the media (Skip Clueless will probably have something to do it with it) early in his career probably won't help either...look at Jim Rice.

I know that I and everybody else here would vote Frank into the Hall. 75% is a big number to get to, and unfortunately I'm not sure Frank will have that.

popilius
08-14-2005, 11:21 PM
This is a good comparison. I believe Thomas is a Hall-of-Famer. However, most of the critics that I've talked to don't deny that his offensive numbers and reputation are not Hall-Worthy. Their argument is that he was a DH most of the time. To them, not playing the field (and lets be honest, Frank is not a good fielder) means he shouldn't be in the Hall.

However, Paul Molitor was a DH in his last 8 seasons, and he made it in.

:gulp:

FredManrique
08-14-2005, 11:44 PM
Dave Winfield...

.283, 465, 1833

162 Game Average:

.283, 25, 100

Career High:

.340, 37, 118

Frank Thomas:

.307, 448, 1465

162 Game Average (prior to this year):

.308, 37, 121

Career High:

.353, 43, 143

Also note that Winfield played in 1,000 more games than Frank. I'm not the biggest baseball expert out there so I wanted to hear other's opinions. Is this a fair comparison, and do you guys think Winfield deserves to be there? It seems to be that if Winfield is there, Frank should be too. What do you guys think?

Also, if you look at Frank's peak stretch, from '91-'97, it compares favourably with anyone who has ever played the game. I think he's the only guy who's ever hit .300, with 20+ hr, 100+ rbi, 100+ runs, and 100+ walks in seven straight years.

Frank may not have had the longevity that we all wanted to see, but there's no doubt that he was the scariest hitter of the early 90's.

1st ballot all the way. Anything less is a joke.

jdm2662
08-15-2005, 07:56 AM
The case for Bonds is that he was a hall of fame player before he juiced. He was the most complete player in my life time. I can't stand the guy with a passion, but you can't deny his skills. On the other hand, we all know about Sosa. The whole steriod circus has made Ken Griffey Jr and Frank look much more worthy. Out of all these power hitters per say, the only two guys I don't think ever juiced are Arod and Vlad.

As for the DH thing, let's not forget that Winfield DHed his last few seasons too. If these so called experts don't think it's a legit position, then get rid of it. Until then, it's there, like it or not.

downstairs
08-15-2005, 08:18 AM
As for the DH thing, let's not forget that Winfield DHed his last few seasons too. If these so called experts don't think it's a legit position, then get rid of it. Until then, it's there, like it or not.

Thank you! Same goes with relief pitchers.

You're voting on the best of the *game*. The game has rules. If you don't like baseball's rules, go vote for another sport's hall of fame candidates.

downstairs
08-15-2005, 08:21 AM
One more thing...

I actually have to believe (I am hoping) that since writers vote players in, and writers don't have to go by any specific "legal" standards... that they will take into account steroids and who they think clearly did them, and clearly did not.

Remember, these are writers... not MLB officals or a court of law. They know, even though it may never be proven, certain players who clearly cheated.

I have to believe that gives Frank a bit more of a shot. But who knows. Writers are also dopes much of the time...