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Over By There
08-12-2005, 02:26 PM
Somewhat interesting article here for those (like me) that dislike the "crooked cap" fashion statement that some ballplayers (e.g., CC Sabathia, Brandon Phillips) wear. I'm glad I'm not the only person who's driven crazy by this.

As I've said before, I'd prefer that players respect the uniform and not use it to make a statement. I'm dreading the day (and I'm sure it will come) when we sign a player who wears their cap this way. The article says that a few clubs have policies against the "crooked cap," but doesn't specify any clubs except the Jays. Anyone know if the Sox have a policy?

Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=lukas/050811)

Uni Watch's opposition to Crew Askew has nothing to do with racial, generational or subcultural demographics. And contrary to what you might think, Uni Watch won't be tossing around phrases like "respect for the game" or "bad influence." No, Uni Watch is opposed to the off-center cap for one reason and one reason only: because it looks so totally stupid.

Jaffar
08-12-2005, 03:11 PM
I agree with you completly. My nephew was wearing his hat like that recently and I told him when he is around me he could wear it straight forward or backward or not at all. When it comes to players on the field though it should be an MLB policy not a team policy.

VeeckAsInWreck
08-12-2005, 04:19 PM
I remember that Roberto Hernandez would always have his hat to a slight angle. But I always thought that it could have been because he couldn't see straight.

TornLabrum
08-12-2005, 04:23 PM
For those of you who are not affiliated with gangs, the turned cap represents which group you are in. In the Chicago area, the two groups are "People" and "Folks." They turn their caps in opposite directions so it's easier to identify themselves as targets for drive-by shooters.

MIgrenade
08-12-2005, 04:50 PM
For those of you who are not affiliated with gangs, the turned cap represents which group you are in. In the Chicago area, the two groups are "People" and "Folks." They turn their caps in opposite directions so it's easier to identify themselves as targets for drive-by shooters.

This may be the case, but I doubt white kids from the 'burbs fall into this category...I also doubt Abercrombie models fit that category although their death would be much appreciated.

TornLabrum
08-12-2005, 04:53 PM
This may be the case, but I doubt white kids from the 'burbs fall into this category...I also doubt Abercrombie models fit that category although their death would be much appreciated.

You'd be amazed at how many suburban kids are either in gangs or are wannabes.

SomebodyToldMe
08-12-2005, 05:14 PM
I love the uni watch!

And yes, the cocked hats look extremely stupid in baseball. Wear the uniform right. That stuff's meant for off the field. You can look "gangsta" there, but not on the baseball field.

Soxzilla
08-12-2005, 05:38 PM
If they have the talent to be out on that field, they can wear their hat any way they want for all I care.

D. TODD
08-12-2005, 11:00 PM
If they have the talent to be out on that field, they can wear their hat any way they want for all I care. I agree, much ado about nothing as far as I'm concerned. I'm much more concerned with their performance then their sense of fashion. If the player can get the job done and is not a problem in the clubhouse I would love a crooked hat guy on the Sox!

TornLabrum
08-12-2005, 11:25 PM
I agree, much ado about nothing as far as I'm concerned. I'm much more concerned with their performance then their sense of fashion. If the player can get the job done and is not a problem in the clubhouse I would love a crooked hat guy on the Sox!

I personally don't care for anything that promotes or glamorizes the gang banger look.

Nellie_Fox
08-13-2005, 12:05 AM
The hat worn to one side is absolutely influenced by gangs. In Chicago, the Disciples and their affiliates wear their hats to the right, the Vice Lords and their affiliates wear them to the left. They've been doing it since long before the hip-hop culture adopted it.

Maximo
08-13-2005, 12:11 AM
I personally don't care for anything that promotes or glamorizes the gang banger look.

After spending most of my adult life as an administrator in a public school system, a cap worn sideways, one way or another, always has gang connotations for me.

Those who wear them that way are either promoting gang membership, pursuing gang membership, or are absolutely clueless as to the significance of the symbolism.

TornLabrum
08-13-2005, 12:21 AM
The hat worn to one side is absolutely influenced by gangs. In Chicago, the Disciples and their affiliates wear their hats to the right, the Vice Lords and their affiliates wear them to the left. They've been doing it since long before the hip-hop culture adopted it.

Out in the boonies we were aware of all of this stuff a good 15-20 years ago. The only thing I don't remember now is which of these groups are the "People" and which are the "Folks."

Some other things to look for are IU caps (or anything else resembling a pitchfork, which is a symbol of one of these groups). Five and six-pointed stars also distinguish them (and the six-pointed ones have nothing to do with Judaism). Starter jackets were big with one group because of the 5-pointed stars.

All of the idiotic symbolism would be hilarious if it weren't so deadly.

Nellie_Fox
08-13-2005, 12:32 AM
Out in the boonies we were aware of all of this stuff a good 15-20 years ago. The only thing I don't remember now is which of these groups are the "People" and which are the "Folks."

Some other things to look for are IU caps (or anything else resembling a pitchfork, which is a symbol of one of these groups). Five and six-pointed stars also distinguish them (and the six-pointed ones have nothing to do with Judaism). Starter jackets were big with one group because of the 5-pointed stars.

All of the idiotic symbolism would be hilarious if it weren't so deadly.The pitchfork is a holdover from the days when the Disciples were the Devil's Disciples, and is in most of the "Folk Nation" graffiti. The five-point star is "People" or Vice-Lords affiliated, six is "Folk." You'll often see them combined in the graffiti, with the pitchforks sticking out of the upper corners of the six-point star. Some of the graffiti will still show a devil's tail coming off the main symbol of the gang.

Just a little reminiscing from twenty-five years of police work.

SOX ADDICT '73
08-13-2005, 12:50 AM
It's possible that this crooked cap business bothers some of us so much due to our inherent dislike for the offenders themselves. Fat-bathia has already been mentioned, and he is joined by fellow Indians Coco Crisp and Ronnie Belly-ard, former Indian (and current Cub) Matt Lawton, and everyone's favorite Twin, Torii Hunter. I'd hate those guys anyway; the crooked cap just intensifies it.

D. TODD
08-13-2005, 12:53 AM
I am fully aware of the gang connections to hats to the left or right. There are also numerous color combinations that "represent". That being said I do not think everybody with a cocked hat is "representing". So, I still have no problem with a player wearing his hat how he likes it. But, your points are taken.

Nellie_Fox
08-13-2005, 01:57 AM
I am fully aware of the gang connections to hats to the left or right. There are also numerous color combinations that "represent". That being said I do not think everybody with a cocked hat is "representing". So, I still have no problem with a player wearing his hat how he likes it. But, your points are taken.I don't think that everyone who wears his hat cocked to one side is "representing." I do, however, think that they have been influenced by the corrosive influence of "thug life" in the hip-hop culture. It all came from the gangs, and is glorified in pop culture.

Mercy!
08-13-2005, 02:11 AM
Thanks for link. I think where you come down on this issue is simply age related.

Me? Im old enough to think the backward cap is flat ridiculous unless youre a catcher or are trying to keep your neck from being sunburned. So you know what I think about the crooked cap bill a la C. C. Sabathia.

But whether you work for McDonalds, the U. S. Marines, or the White Sox, an employer has a right to require certain standards of appearance, especially when you wear a uniform (duh).

As long as were on the subject, I wish Freddie Garcia could do a better job of keeping his jersey tucked into his pants.:rolleyes:

FarWestChicago
08-13-2005, 02:22 AM
As long as were on the subject, I wish Freddie Garcia could do a better job of keeping his jersey tucked into his pants.You know what. I'm really tired of your constant anti-Sox posts. We'll see you in a while.

hsnterprize
08-13-2005, 06:08 AM
You'd be amazed at how many suburban kids are either in gangs or are wannabes.I second that motion. You'd be suprised by how many trends in fashion and music in general that white suburanite kids are into that started out in black, inner city neighborhoods.

TornLabrum
08-13-2005, 07:49 AM
It's possible that this crooked cap business bothers some of us so much due to our inherent dislike for the offenders themselves. Fat-bathia has already been mentioned, and he is joined by fellow Indians Coco Crisp and Ronnie Belly-ard, former Indian (and current Cub) Matt Lawton, and everyone's favorite Twin, Torii Hunter. I'd hate those guys anyway; the crooked cap just intensifies it.

No, it has to do with the fact that this is a symbol used by gang bangers to identify themselves. Big difference between that and not liking a player.

TornLabrum
08-13-2005, 07:54 AM
I second that motion. You'd be suprised by how many trends in fashion and music in general that white suburanite kids are into that started out in black, inner city neighborhoods.

In the last year or so, the trend to wear jeans barely up to the hips has made it out to the boonies where I teach. I remember seeing that in St. Anne and Crete-Monee High Schools, schools with high percentages of African-American students, when I was teaching in them 8-9 years ago.

Maximo
08-13-2005, 09:03 AM
I am fully aware of the gang connections to hats to the left or right. There are also numerous color combinations that "represent". That being said I do not think everybody with a cocked hat is "representing". So, I still have no problem with a player wearing his hat how he likes it. But, your points are taken.

The "color combinations" representing something reminds of a story......

Back in the early 90's I was at my post one night supervising a high school dance. This was during a time when the Sox accented their black jersey with a lot more silver. I remember reading and hearing back then that the Sox' jerseys, caps, and jackets were some of the highest selling sportswear in the country....especially on the east and west coasts.

A few of those jerseys made it into the dance that night. A parent who was helping chaperone.....good guy.....came over to me and knowing that I was a Sox fan said something to the effect, "Max....I'll bet you're happy that so many of these kids are Sox fans".

"Yeah....right". I suggested he walk over into the group wearing the jerseys, ask them about the Sox' chances of making it to the post season.....and see how far the conversation gets.

Soxzilla
08-13-2005, 09:49 AM
In the last year or so, the trend to wear jeans barely up to the hips has made it out to the boonies where I teach.

Now THAT, I definitely don't mind.


...As long as it's not MY girlfriend.:wink::tongue:

Juice16
08-13-2005, 10:14 AM
I agree, much ado about nothing as far as I'm concerned. I'm much more concerned with their performance then their sense of fashion. If the player can get the job done and is not a problem in the clubhouse I would love a crooked hat guy on the Sox!

I'm tired of people saying someone can do whatever they want as long as they perform. You make sound like the team or player has a choice to take the player dressed like clown town and his skills or nothing. How about these players perform and dress appropriately.

TornLabrum
08-13-2005, 10:20 AM
I'm tired of people saying someone can do whatever they want as long as they perform. You make sound like the team or player has a choice to take the player dressed like clown town and his skills or nothing. How about these players perform and dress appropriately.

That's so 20th Century!

Maximo
08-13-2005, 10:41 AM
I'm tired of people saying someone can do whatever they want as long as they perform. You make sound like the team or player has a choice to take the player dressed like clown town and his skills or nothing. How about these players perform and dress appropriately.

Actually, sticking to the original purpose of the thread, I probably have as much of a problem with the recent 'trendy' look of pulling the cap down to the ears, bending the bill in horseshoe fashion, and exposing 3 months of accumulated dirt and sweat for the entire world to see. i.e......most college baseball players.

Now, I don't want my favorite baseball players looking like engineers on a locomotive, but c'mon.......

My mother told me a long time ago that I'd begin to think this way one day....and I laughed.

GregoryEtc
08-13-2005, 11:02 AM
What gang was former White Sox manager, Kid Gleason affiliated with?
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/blacksox/Gleason.jpg

TornLabrum
08-13-2005, 11:11 AM
What gang was former White Sox manager, Kid Gleason affiliated with?
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/blacksox/Gleason.jpg

The Shamrocks (see Hill St. Blues - the gang led by David Caruso).

34 Inch Stick
08-13-2005, 11:51 AM
The Gashouse Gang.

I was very young when Hill Street Blues was out and I still found neither Caruso nor the leader of the Mexican gang to be very intimidating. I am shocked that Caruso has always played some kind of tough guy when I would be willing to take a run at him any day of the week. It must be the crazy red head factor.

Stroker Ace
08-13-2005, 02:00 PM
I love the uni watch!Yeah, that's one of, if not the only article on that site I like. I think that The crooked cap makes someone look like an idiot. I hate seeing these 13 year old kids hanging outside a strip mall trying to look like Ashton Kutcher or 50 Cent. Why can't they realize they look like morons.

shoota
08-13-2005, 02:29 PM
The cocked hats are in poor taste, but so is the do-rags (sp) worn by Victor Martinez and other players. Martinez should wear a backwards Jndians hat under his catcher's mask, not a rag.

I think Dmitri Young does this too.

DieTrying79
08-13-2005, 05:39 PM
I completely agree with you guys. To me, it's a way of saying that they are "too cool" or are "keeping" it real", and don't have to abide by traditional uniform standards. It's an honor to be able to don an MLB uniform, the least these guys can do is respect that.

Also, I think Mike Cameron is a member of the hat-to-the-side crew. Can anyone recall if he sported the cap to the side while playing for us? I met Mike at USCF a few years back while he was on the Mariners, and he was a pretty nice guy. I wish him well, and a speedy recovery.

Nellie_Fox
08-14-2005, 01:49 AM
In the last year or so, the trend to wear jeans barely up to the hips has made it out to the boonies where I teach. I remember seeing that in St. Anne and Crete-Monee High Schools, schools with high percentages of African-American students, when I was teaching in them 8-9 years ago.I remember seeing elderly (by that, I mean about my age) black comedian John Witherspoon on TV one time. At the end of his routine, he said "I want to end with a message to all you young brothers out there. Pull your damn pants up; don't nobody want to see your drawers."

SOXPHILE
08-15-2005, 03:52 PM
I like the uniform watch. Wear your hat the right way ! In the same vein, the NFL a few years ago banned players from wearing the 'do rags, and hankerchefs on their heads because of the gang and prison affilitations, and I thought that was good too. Come on, these guys are supposed to be proffesionals, representing their team, and their pro-sports league, not punks trying to look like some jail yard gang member. What's next ? Baseball players wearing their baggy pants down low, so you can see their boxer shorts hanging out ?

nitetrain8601
08-16-2005, 02:58 PM
I completely agree with you guys. To me, it's a way of saying that they are "too cool" or are "keeping" it real", and don't have to abide by traditional uniform standards. It's an honor to be able to don an MLB uniform, the least these guys can do is respect that.

Also, I think Mike Cameron is a member of the hat-to-the-side crew. Can anyone recall if he sported the cap to the side while playing for us? I met Mike at USCF a few years back while he was on the Mariners, and he was a pretty nice guy. I wish him well, and a speedy recovery.

I think Cameron wore it straight for a couple of years and I think I've seen him with a crooked hat in a Sox uni before.

Honestly, I don't like it. That's just me though.