PDA

View Full Version : Levine/Dolgin: Possible New Konerko Contract?


GiveMeSox
08-10-2005, 02:18 AM
On Chicago baseball tonight on ESPN1000 Bruce and Dolgin were talking about a possible contract offer to Konerko of 4 years by the sox. Terms and financial info were not disclosed, but Levine said dont be surprised if he signs a 3-4 year extension coming up soon.

the_valenstache
08-10-2005, 02:21 AM
I support it.


**ducks**

Unregistered
08-10-2005, 02:24 AM
Yeesh. I'm scared to find out the financial terms. :o:

ChiWhiteSox1337
08-10-2005, 02:30 AM
Yeesh. I'm scared to find out the financial terms. :o:
I agree. If it's a paycut from what he's currently making, I wouldn't be against resigning Konerko for the next few years instead of having Ross Gload or possibly Rogowski as a fulltime starter. If it's a significant increase, which is what I would assume based off of what some teams were willing to pay during the past offseason, I'm not too sure...:(:

OzzieBall2005
08-10-2005, 02:35 AM
With the Iguchi and AJP signings, it seems that Williams is getting every bit for his penny. I am very confident he wouldn't overpay for this guy. Kenny knows what his worth is.

GiveMeSox
08-10-2005, 02:53 AM
With the Iguchi and AJP signings, it seems that Williams is getting every bit for his penny. I am very confident he wouldn't overpay for this guy. Kenny knows what his worth is.

Yeah Im sure its something like 6-8 mil per year, probably backloaded. AJ will be resigned as well as he is arb eligible.

StockdaleForVeep
08-10-2005, 03:04 AM
Would a PK contract guarentee Frank's goodbye to chicago?

Chisox003
08-10-2005, 03:05 AM
With the Iguchi and AJP signings, it seems that Williams is getting every bit for his penny. I am very confident he wouldn't overpay for this guy. Kenny knows what his worth is.

Agreed.

And unlike 95% of this site, I want to see PK back next year....

Not for $10 million, of course, but $6-8 sounds great

Do it Kenny :gulp:

Whitesox029
08-10-2005, 03:14 AM
Agreed.

And unlike 95% of this site, I want to see PK back next year....

Not for $10 million, of course, but $6-8 sounds great

Do it Kenny :gulp:
:hawk
Paulie's contract......YEESSSS!
:bandance: :supernana: :bandance:

TaylorStSox
08-10-2005, 03:16 AM
:chunks.

Whitesox029
08-10-2005, 03:20 AM
029 edit: [sparing everyone the disgusting picture]
No, you're right. We don't need anyone to anchor our lineup and singlehandedly save our collective ass when Podsednik slumps and small ball temporarily goes down the drain.

TaylorStSox
08-10-2005, 03:25 AM
No, you're right. We don't need anyone to anchor our lineup and singlehandedly save our collective ass when Podsednik slumps and small ball temporarily goes down the drain.

Yes, the guy that hits >.250 W/RISP is "singlehandedly saving our collective ass." PK fans are a strange bunch.

StockdaleForVeep
08-10-2005, 04:17 AM
Yes, the guy that hits >.250 W/RISP is "singlehandedly saving our collective ass." PK fans are a strange bunch.

Many girls seem to love the strong balding type since they wear his jersey, he is the athletic tall confident george costanza, heh or the non sex george costanza who gave batting practice for the yankees

The Dude
08-10-2005, 04:32 AM
Yes, the guy that hits >.250 W/RISP is "singlehandedly saving our collective ass." PK fans are a strange bunch.

Yeah he alone has saved our asses several time the past few weeks. I cant understand the anti-PK comments recently at all. He's been solid all year, especially with the GIDPK. If you look at the yank-mee boards, they'd love PK on their team. I am proud to be a FOPK! All you haters know where to shove it.

The Dude
08-10-2005, 04:33 AM
:chunks.

So you support Jc but puke at the prospect of keeping Pk???? give me a ****in break.

TaylorStSox
08-10-2005, 05:07 AM
So you support Jc but puke at the prospect of keeping Pk???? give me a ****in break.

A. I always support the guys that came up through our system more. Sue me.

B. Crede makes about $8.1 MM less.

C. I'd never consider resigning Crede for anywhere near what PK makes.

D. Chicks dig the long ball. I dig defense.

E. Crede keeps his mouth shut.

F. Crede hits better W/RISP. :cool:

G. I'd never even compare them as hitters. We're not talking about paying 1/8th of our salary to Joe Crede. There's a difference.

Domeshot17
08-10-2005, 05:40 AM
I too am among the select Paulie fans and would love to see him back. I think while he is not the smartest with his mouth, is a leader by action. Earlier this year I had the pleasure of Meeting Aaron and Pods at a signing. My girlfriends dad had paid the 20 bucks to be able to bull**** with them for 10 minutes along with the autograph, and Rowand was very high on Paulie. He said Paulie stays late with Aaron a lot to take a ton of extra swings, and is never satisfied with his play. That to me showed a lot of dedication from them both.

I do not think Bringing back Paulie, even at 9 million a year (1 mil saved if we can get rid of Timo) would automatically mean the end to big Frank. I think Frank and the Sox come to terms on a Contract with a base of around 2-3 mil and loaded with incentives to get him to around 6 or 7 mil.

I do not think Gload is the everyday answer, if he was, he would be up and not Timo. Rogowski is going to be a monster, but I see him as the heir apparent to the big hurt. If we got Paulie for 6-8 million a season, I think it is a steal, because look at what all the other 35-40 home run hitters a season get.

And in terms of the knocks on his defense, While he is not Todd Helton or, hate to say it, but Derek Lee with the glove, He catches everything hit to him and is one of the best in the bigs at digging the balls out of the dirt. Being a firstbaseman, I know how under rated the ability to pick it is, and plenty of Times this year, we have seen " Crede with the dive, jumps up, fires to first, and Konerko scoops it out of the dirt for the out". His glove really is not that bad, although you can knock his range and speed.

So I for one am praying we get to hear the Paulie chants for 3 or 4 more years.

Fredsox
08-10-2005, 06:41 AM
I hope this is a true story. Konerko epitomizes the White Sox attitude, what has recently been called a "grinder". He busts his fanny every day, he's vocal (sometimes too vocal, but you live with it), and he never makes lame excuses. He might not be the most talented player we have but he can play first base for me any day.

Mark'sBrokenFoot
08-10-2005, 07:46 AM
Dolgin said Paul wants 42 million over 4 years and the Sox are offering 36 million over 4 years. I think both are too much, considering his power numbers come in the smallest park in the league. I'd rather make a move for Overbay than give 9 to 11 million to this pain in the ass.

Iguana775
08-10-2005, 07:59 AM
Yes, the guy that hits >.250 W/RISP is "singlehandedly saving our collective ass." PK fans are a strange bunch.

Do you realize that says GREATER THAN .250?

munchman33
08-10-2005, 08:50 AM
:threadsucks
:threadblows:
:chunks

This is the worst news I've gotten in my entire life.
I can't believe Kenny Williams would be this stupid. Unless the deal is for like four million per year, which is about what Konerko is truly worth.

whitesoxwilkes
08-10-2005, 08:53 AM
This is the worst news I've gotten in my entire life.
I can't believe Kenny Williams would be this stupid. Unless the deal is for like four million per year, which is about what Konerko is truly worth.

So what's the alternative? Go get Overbay?

2 or 3 years down the road, I'm willing to bet Overbay starts putting up Konerko-like numbers and will command a Konerko-like salary. Then what do we do?

Let's lock up Paulie while we can. With Frank probably done (sorry guys, but I think he's running out of miracle comebacks) this offense needs a heart and soul.

bunnybrief
08-10-2005, 09:14 AM
Agreed.

And unlike 95% of this site, I want to see PK back next year....

Not for $10 million, of course, but $6-8 sounds great

Do it Kenny :gulp:

It's not 95% of this site, some people would just like it to look that way.

They have an unhealthy obsession, I guess.

TomBradley72
08-10-2005, 09:18 AM
This is a good move. No outstanding "heir apparent" in the system....Ozzie has always touted Paulie as one of his "leaders". Locks up the right side of the infield for the next few years. He's slow, he's streaky....but he's an important part of what makes this team special.

PaleHoseGeorge
08-10-2005, 09:21 AM
Did Levine mention whether Konerko pays for his own walker in the fourth year?
:cool:

http://images.radcity.net/5176/584831.jpg
"Paul, if I told you the world was flat, would you be studly man enough to tell me I'm wrong?"

Letmehearya
08-10-2005, 09:46 AM
Admittedly, I'm no fan of Paulie, king of the GIDP. That said, $6-8 million might work for 3 years. [$18 million] Frankly, let's keep spending the big money on STARTING PITCHING and a solid bullpen. That's why we have the best record in baseball not because our anemic offense is a "murderer's row".

As far as Crede, I've had enough.

By the way, in light of the fact that attendance is soaring, does that mean JR would approve a $100,000,000 budget next year? LOL!

veeter
08-10-2005, 09:53 AM
I was thinking the same thing. This is a sign the payroll is increasing. Maybe no more, move this guy so we can keep that guy. Keep them all. Hell, we deserve that.

Letmehearya
08-10-2005, 09:58 AM
We've got to be careful about the "let's keep them all" attitude. We had that feeling in '83 with Julio Cruz and it cost the Sox dearly. :hawk

"Double D, I love the Cruiser!"

Flight #24
08-10-2005, 10:16 AM
Personally, I think you can find better ways to spend $9mil/yr. But I can see how Sox management would be leery of letting go the guy who's arguably their biggest "name", especially if you can't replace him with a bigger name (because there aren't any on FA), and coming off of a banner season.

It's somewhat Cub-like, IMO but I can see them not wanting to create another potential PR mess. Plus with Frank gone or back on a low base salary, they may figure that they basically end up with about the same $$$ savings.

Also, they may be putting this out there and holding the line at 9mil if they think he can get 10-12/yr. Then they can say they made a sincere effort but didn't want to alter the chemistry by paying 1 guy so much more than the rest.

EDIT: It could also be the case that Levineline's misheard things as they got filtered to his ears through his own rectum.

Tragg
08-10-2005, 10:22 AM
Every team needs change, and Konerko looks like a good candidate to bring change. But, if he will come for a paycut, it may be okay (3 years max).

Keep putting money into pitching. Right now, 1-10 (or whatever) I can't think of any team with a better staff. Our SP, aside from a few raises next year, is locked up plus McCarthy. We're looking good there. Keep improving the pen.

As for Crede, his production is marginal, but he's cheap. And at least he goes deep amidst his bad OBP. If there's a stud available, then get him. Otherwise, don't spend money on some average ballplayer who would be only a marginal improvement, like a .270 hitter who is a defensive downgrade

I like Overbay, and considering Fielder in the wings, we might get him fairly cheap if we're clever about it. But he's also a liability - no power at a power position. It means you have to find your power somewhere else - and unless it's in RF, or maybe 3B or LF, you will pay a high, high, high price for additional power. So him turning into "PK" may not be saying he's getting worse, just different. The Cubs paid dearly for playing Mark Grace at first base all those years. Mr Sunshine, everybody liked him, .300 average, obp consistently .370+, - but no production - never hit 20 homers nor 100 RBIs.

Ol' No. 2
08-10-2005, 10:28 AM
Personally, I think you can find better ways to spend $9mil/yr. But I can see how Sox management would be leery of letting go the guy who's arguably their biggest "name", especially if you can't replace him with a bigger name (because there aren't any on FA), and coming off of a banner season.

It's somewhat Cub-like, IMO but I can see them not wanting to create another potential PR mess. Plus with Frank gone or back on a low base salary, they may figure that they basically end up with about the same $$$ savings.

Also, they may be putting this out there and holding the line at 9mil if they think he can get 10-12/yr. Then they can say they made a sincere effort but didn't want to alter the chemistry by paying 1 guy so much more than the rest.

EDIT: It could also be the case that Levineline's misheard things as they got filtered to his ears through his own rectum.Didn't we go through this exercise a month or so ago where we compared Konerko's production to other FA 1B? He's not as productive as Delgado and the others, but doesn't make nearly as much $$$, either. IIRC, it turned out he was about right at $8-9M.

TomBradley72
08-10-2005, 10:59 AM
Among American League 1st Basemen the Last 3 Years (Prior to 2005)...Konerko's ranking among AL 1B's:

#3 in Home Runs
#2 in RBI's
#5 in Doubles
#6 in Slugging Pct.

In 2005:

#2 in Home Runs
#3 in RBI's
#3 in OPS
#3 in Slugging Pct.

Flight #24
08-10-2005, 11:11 AM
Didn't we go through this exercise a month or so ago where we compared Konerko's production to other FA 1B? He's not as productive as Delgado and the others, but doesn't make nearly as much $$$, either. IIRC, it turned out he was about right at $8-9M.

The problem is - Delgado's not in this FA market. Best alternate options are Erubiel Durazo, Kevin Millar, Daryle Ward, and Rafeal Viagro. Piazza would be about the only more attractive alternative.

In a weak market, a team looking to make a move will likely overpay for a guy like Paulie. I'd fully expect him to get offers in > $10 range if he hits the market.

But I think if you go get a Millar/Ward and invest the difference somewhere else, you can actually do better. Just IMO.

skobabe8
08-10-2005, 11:12 AM
This is the worst news I've gotten in my entire life.
I can't believe Kenny Williams would be this stupid. Unless the deal is for like four million per year, which is about what Konerko is truly worth.

:?: Then you've had a FANTASTIC life.

Letmehearya
08-10-2005, 11:35 AM
If we win the World Series, I don't care who they bring back nor do I care what they're paid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jjav829
08-10-2005, 11:51 AM
Yes, the guy that hits >.250 W/RISP is "singlehandedly saving our collective ass." PK fans are a strange bunch.

Just an aside, I find it funny how those who love to rip PK always find that one stat that they can use to rip him. Last year every knock on Konerko was that he could only hit at home and not on the road. Well, what do you know, this year he's hitting near the same on the road as he is at home. So this year's "stat to rip Konerko" is his average with RISP. Why didn't you hear this last year? Well, because last year he hit .314 with RISP with a .973 OPS. It's just funny to see some people grasp for that one stat they can use to knock Konerko.

As for the main point of this thread, I'm not going to overreact yet. I don't really have a strong opinion either way on if I want Konerko next year. I've made it known numerous times that I want Aubrey Huff, but I don't know that Huff is a realistic option anymore. I like the Overbay option, too. The thing is Overbay, or even Huff if that option is re-visited, would cost the Sox some talent, quite possibly McCarthy. So which package is better over the next 3-4 years; Konerko and McCarthy, or Huff/Overbay and a mediocre starter - someone in the Mark Redman mold? When you look at it like that, Konerko at $8-9 million doesn't seem as bad, I suppose. You have to figure that Huff and Overbay will both be making near $8 million starting in the 2007 season. Huff will be a free agent after next year and he will get a raise. Overbay will be arbitration eligible and if he keeps producing at this rate, he should get a nice raise or even more likely, a long-term deal from whatever team he is on.

Even though I would prefer Huff or Overbay, looking at it this way, I might be leaning toward keeping Konerko and McCarthy, assuming Konerko's contract is reasonable.

The Dude
08-10-2005, 11:52 AM
A. I always support the guys that came up through our system more. Sue me.

B. Crede makes about $8.1 MM less.

C. I'd never consider resigning Crede for anywhere near what PK makes.

D. Chicks dig the long ball. I dig defense.

E. Crede keeps his mouth shut.

F. Crede hits better W/RISP. :cool:

G. I'd never even compare them as hitters. We're not talking about paying 1/8th of our salary to Joe Crede. There's a difference.

Ok lets see..

A. I also support our system guys and still somewhat support Crede, although he disappoints me time after time.

B. He will be gone after his contract is up, because of his jackass agent

C. Obviously

D. PK has a pretty good glove, not gold but above average

E. I totally agree that PK suffers from the diarrhea mouth

F. Is that stat over this year or over his career, because I'd much rather have PK when the game's on the line. That being said, Crede has been clutch at times.

G. Gotcha

bumptious96
08-10-2005, 12:01 PM
This years FA market is especially thin. Some have been saying that' one of the reasons KW made so many moves last offseason b/c he saw it wasn't going to be easy to improve the team with the FA this year.

I have no problem with 4 years/$28 mill for pauly. I would rather have it for three years, even though he's still only 29. I just can't see JR or KW approving a move to give the guy 10 mill a year, because they simply don't do it.

I don't agree with the idea of going to the FA market and signing Millar or Durazo and possibly overpaying for them in what I assume will be another ridiculous market, just as last years was.

We absolutely need pauly's power numbers on this team. He's our only big bopper. I can deal with his .270 avg and .250 RISP. I just don't think we'll get more value than signing him for 8 mill a year.

My conclusion, IMHO, is this. We're gonna have this same team back next year, with the possible exception of Paul and Joe. I think they resign Paul and Crede, unless they go after Bill Mueller (only good FA 3B), which is a bad, bad idea.. Our outfield is set. I would like to see some help for the left side of the infield (Furcal?) and I don't care which position. Also, I would like to see another insurance arm in the pen (B.J. Ryan?). With studs like Cotts, Politte, Jenks, and Herm and good relievers in Marte and Viz the Whiz, I think we are one arm short in the pen b/c of Herms back and Marte and Viz's in consistent. I think our SP is fine. So....resign Paul and Joe and have the same season next year!!!!!

gobears1987
08-10-2005, 12:18 PM
:chunks.
Stop making an ass of yourself. I know PK isn't the most loved person on the team, but face it. Without PK, we wouldn't have won the game yesterday. He comes through with clutch homers and with Frank's career in Chicago likely over, we need Paulie.

I'm shocked that you would rather have Crediocre on our team. He could learn how to bat from Paulie. I could tell you where you can put that barf picture.

woodenleg
08-10-2005, 12:25 PM
Stop making an ass of yourself. I know PK isn't the most loved person on the team, but face it. Without PK, we wouldn't have won the game yesterday. He comes through with clutch homers and with Frank's career in Chicago likely over, we need Paulie.

I'm shocked that you would rather have Crediocre on our team. He could learn how to bat from Paulie. I could tell you where you can put that barf picture.

"Crediocre"....bwah ha ha ha!

DarkCloudDropo
08-10-2005, 12:31 PM
I see a lot of comments here about you'll be ok with resigning Paul if he takes a cut. I think it's safe to say you're wasting your time bothering with this thread. Paul will not be taking any cut.

If the Sox can sign Paul for $10M a year for 3 or 4 years they should jump on it. He's still only 29 years old and one of the better firstbasemen in the game.

maurice
08-10-2005, 01:03 PM
I find it funny how those who love to rip PK always find that one stat that they can use to rip him.

Sorry, J, but this is rather the opposite of the truth. Konerko supporters rely on his HR and RBI totals and ignore literally everything else. His OBP and OPS are good, but certainly not worthy of a 8-figure deal. His AVE is bleh. His AVE with RiSP or RiSP + 2 outs this year are crap. His extra-base hit toals other than HR are pathetic. He still hits most of his HR at Coors East (about 65% of them over the past 2 years). He regularly falls into prolonged slumps. He has no speed and no range, and is a terrible situational hitter. In short, he's the opposite of smart ball.

That being said, I'm fine with a 3-year deal at $6 or 7 mil. / year . . . but I think that the reported figures are much more likely, and that would be a very VERY bad resigning.

maurice
08-10-2005, 01:06 PM
I think if you go get a Millar/Ward and invest the difference somewhere else, you can actually do better. Just IMO.

Agreed.

mdep524
08-10-2005, 01:06 PM
The problem is - Delgado's not in this FA market. Best alternate options are Erubiel Durazo, Kevin Millar, Daryle Ward, and Rafeal Viagro. Piazza would be about the only more attractive alternative.

In a weak market, a team looking to make a move will likely overpay for a guy like Paulie. I'd fully expect him to get offers in > $10 range if he hits the market.

But I think if you go get a Millar/Ward and invest the difference somewhere else, you can actually do better. Just IMO. You're right, but don't forget some other names might available via trade-- namely Lyle Overbay, Jim Thome and Aubrey Huff-- that could also affect the market.

TheOldRoman
08-10-2005, 01:09 PM
I like Overbay, and considering Fielder in the wings, we might get him fairly cheap if we're clever about it. But he's also a liability - no power at a power position. It means you have to find your power somewhere else - and unless it's in RF, or maybe 3B or LF, you will pay a high, high, high price for additional power. So him turning into "PK" may not be saying he's getting worse, just different. The Cubs paid dearly for playing Mark Grace at first base all those years. Mr Sunshine, everybody liked him, .300 average, obp consistently .370+, - but no production - never hit 20 homers nor 100 RBIs.
Overbay hit 16 homers last year, but he hit a lot of doubles. This year, he already has 16 homers, but his average is down to .276. I haven't seen Overbay enough to know if last year was a fluke or not, but I will say this: If we get Overbay, he will hit a lot more than 16 homers in a season. Look at AJ - he passed his career high in homers in July. On the Sox, Overbay becomes a 30 HR guy.

My biggest concern is improving the offense. Our offense has been HORRIBLE against right handed pitchers this year. Also, the middle of our lineup has been very bad most of the year. You know what you get with Uribe and Crede - great defense, power, clutch hits. You know what you get with Scotty and Iguchi - they are the table setters. The middle of our lineup needs to produce a lot more than it has. We need power, and we need someone who can hit righties. The only spots that we can fill this offseason are DH and 1B, which have arguably been the most dissapointing positions this year. The only way I can justify resigning Konerko is if we sign a lefty power hitter to DH, and I dont know how many of those are available. We need more hitting than we have had this year. You don't go about getting that by bringing back all ths same players.

maurice
08-10-2005, 01:10 PM
Without PK, we wouldn't have won the game yesterday. He comes through with clutch homers

By this "logic," we should pay Crede $10 mil. / year. He's won plenty of games with clutch HR.

Letmehearya
08-10-2005, 01:29 PM
What did Ross Gload do to deserve being - obviously - in Ozzie's doghouse? He put up solid numbers last year and solid numbers in AAA this year. He's lefty, puts the ball in play and can spot Paulie. I don't get it. There's a cheap option.

Ol' No. 2
08-10-2005, 02:05 PM
The problem is - Delgado's not in this FA market. Best alternate options are Erubiel Durazo, Kevin Millar, Daryle Ward, and Rafeal Viagro. Piazza would be about the only more attractive alternative.

In a weak market, a team looking to make a move will likely overpay for a guy like Paulie. I'd fully expect him to get offers in > $10 range if he hits the market.

But I think if you go get a Millar/Ward and invest the difference somewhere else, you can actually do better. Just IMO.I didn't mean that Delgado was available. The point was to compare PK with similar 1B whose contracts reflect FA valuations. If someone wants to offer him $10M or more, I'd wave bye-bye. But you won't replace his production for less than $8M unless you trade away talent. Personally, I think signing PK to a long-term deal even at that price would be the wrong way to go, not because he isn't worth it, but because they have a number of good 1B prospects who are only a year or so away. I'd sign a journeyman 1B for a year with an option and spend the money elsewhere.

mr_genius
08-10-2005, 02:34 PM
Agreed.

And unlike 95% of this site, I want to see PK back next year....



actually, most of the posters like Paulie and wants him back. Some of the guys that run the site dislike him, so many members try to kiss some a** by agreeing with everything they say.

gobears1987
08-10-2005, 03:14 PM
By this "logic," we should pay Crede $10 mil. / year. He's won plenty of games with clutch HR.
Crede hasn't won plenty, he wins a couple a year and just plain sucks the other games. PK is an all star and is one of the 3 best hitting 1st basemen in the league. Find me someone who puts up his numbers for less money and who is available this year.

TaylorStSox
08-10-2005, 03:21 PM
I didn't mean that Delgado was available. The point was to compare PK with similar 1B whose contracts reflect FA valuations. If someone wants to offer him $10M or more, I'd wave bye-bye. But you won't replace his production for less than $8M unless you trade away talent. Personally, I think signing PK to a long-term deal even at that price would be the wrong way to go, not because he isn't worth it, but because they have a number of good 1B prospects who are only a year or so away. I'd sign a journeyman 1B for a year with an option and spend the money elsewhere.

I want somebody who brings more to the plate than PK. 1st base is quickly becoming an athletic position. We don't necassarily need a slow, all or nothing power hitter. I'd rather have an athletic LH bat with good plate discipline. Plus, locking up a guy that's 1 1/2 years removed from having a horrid offensive season for more than 3 years isn't wise.

Again, if you'd want to pay a guy like PK 1/8th of your team salary, then you're crazy IMO.

buehrle4cy05
08-10-2005, 03:30 PM
actually, most of the posters like Paulie and wants him back. Some of the guys that run the site dislike him, so many members try to kiss some a** by agreeing with everything they say.

:DJ
"Uh oh"

Chisox003
08-10-2005, 03:33 PM
"Uh oh"

Why uh oh? The guy's right.

If youve ever even glanced at one of the 12 "Konerko makes a bad comment" threads, there is a whole lot of ass kissing going on in there.

The mods who dont like PK have their opinions, just like the rest of us...

buehrle4cy05
08-10-2005, 03:41 PM
Why uh oh? The guy's right.

If youve ever even glanced at one of the 12 "Konerko makes a bad comment" threads, there is a whole lot of ass kissing going on in there.

The mods who dont like PK have their opinions, just like the rest of us...

Hey, I have my opinion on Konerko too. And I think that he should stay. I would love to see Pauly get a 3-4 year contract, but I can see how people wouldn't want him here.

TomBradley72
08-10-2005, 03:53 PM
Hey, I have my opinion on Konerko too. And I think that he should stay. I would love to see Pauly get a 3-4 year contract, but I can see how people wouldn't want him here.

He's a big part of the franchise, a fan favorite, a clubhouse leader, no drug/steroid/gambling/etc. problems, consistently in the top 3rd of 1B's in the AL, a grinder...I say sign him for 3-4 years...and move on to other problems.

Jjav829
08-10-2005, 04:14 PM
Sorry, J, but this is rather the opposite of the truth.


How is it the opposite of the truth? Would you disagree that the one stat this year that has been thrown around the most in an attempt to knock Konerko is his RISP? Would you disagree that the stats last year that were used most often to knock Konerko were his home/road splits?

I'm not talking about anything else. We all know he is a tremendously streaky hitter. We know he is one of the slowest players in the league. What I'm talking about is how some people love to look for that one area where Konerko is struggling in a given year and use that stat as a large reason why he is bad. This year it is RISP. Last year it was his home/road splits. Yet if you throw out 2003 where he was extremely bad in everything he did, Konerko doesn't have a history of being horrible in any of these stats. In 2002, Konerko hit .303 with RISP. In 2004, he hit .314 with RISP. In 2002, Konerko hit 13 HRs at home and 14 on the road. So far in 2005 he has hit 16 HRs at home and 12 HRs on the road. I just find it funny how people grasp at that one stat for each year to say Konerko sucks, even if that stat happens to be an abberation from how he normally hits.

Actually, it's quite funny looking at some of these arguments from an outsiders perspective. You have some people who will give Konerko's positives and ignore his negatives to support him. Then you have others who give Konerko's negatives and ignore his positives to rip him. It's gotten to a point where I think some people praise him too much because of all the negative stuff and others rip him too much because of the positive stuff. Konerko is probably overrated by his supporters and underrated by his critics. That's just my outsiders opinion though.

Domeshot17
08-10-2005, 04:18 PM
I love that everyone is all for the Smart Ball Idea, but you have to have some guys with power. Aaron has some, but not consistent power as much as average. Crede will give you 15, and Dye Everett maybe 20-25. Overbay is nice, but to think his power numbers will rise at the cell is a bit of a hope. Im not knocking Scotty, but he hasnt hit any for us, Carlos Lee Busted out in Milwaukee, so I do not see a great reason of Proof as why Overbay can hit home runs. And to be honest, we need a few guys that can hit home runs. Kevin Millar and Daryl Ward would not make a pitcher say, " I better not make a mistake because he can hit it out of here". Overbay same thing.

Plus, truthfully, you take out PK and put Ward in the lineup, and the 3 5 6 hitters do not put up the numbers they have.

PK IS A 4 HITTER. What do you want out of your 4 but a Home Run RBI guy. There is a reason Rowand will bat 3 or 5 or 6 but not 4. Frank hitting 3 Carl hitting 3 saw a lot of fastballs this year, and for those of you who played baseball, you know a lot of that comes from the fear of the guy behind him, not wanting to put someone on base with a very Dangerous bat behind him. So it also easily seen as without MAgglio and Lee, PK's average drops because Carl Everett and Jermaine Dye do not strike fear like those 2 would.

I know people would love to see his averaqe up with RISP and and RSIP 2 outs up, but either way the man knocks in 100+ a year. Look at the guys who have the higher averages with RISP, and they wont have as many RBIS. Paulie probably gets 150+ at bats a year with RISP, against another hitter who might get 60 or 70. Its easier to hit 300 in 60 at bats than it its 150.

Ol' No. 2
08-10-2005, 04:37 PM
I love that everyone is all for the Smart Ball Idea, but you have to have some guys with power. Aaron has some, but not consistent power as much as average. Crede will give you 15, and Dye Everett maybe 20-25. Overbay is nice, but to think his power numbers will rise at the cell is a bit of a hope. Im not knocking Scotty, but he hasnt hit any for us, Carlos Lee Busted out in Milwaukee, so I do not see a great reason of Proof as why Overbay can hit home runs. And to be honest, we need a few guys that can hit home runs. Kevin Millar and Daryl Ward would not make a pitcher say, " I better not make a mistake because he can hit it out of here". Overbay same thing.

Plus, truthfully, you take out PK and put Ward in the lineup, and the 3 5 6 hitters do not put up the numbers they have.

PK IS A 4 HITTER. What do you want out of your 4 but a Home Run RBI guy. There is a reason Rowand will bat 3 or 5 or 6 but not 4. Frank hitting 3 Carl hitting 3 saw a lot of fastballs this year, and for those of you who played baseball, you know a lot of that comes from the fear of the guy behind him, not wanting to put someone on base with a very Dangerous bat behind him. So it also easily seen as without MAgglio and Lee, PK's average drops because Carl Everett and Jermaine Dye do not strike fear like those 2 would.

I know people would love to see his averaqe up with RISP and and RSIP 2 outs up, but either way the man knocks in 100+ a year. Look at the guys who have the higher averages with RISP, and they wont have as many RBIS. Paulie probably gets 150+ at bats a year with RISP, against another hitter who might get 60 or 70. Its easier to hit 300 in 60 at bats than it its 150.And to reinforce that point, it's not for nothing that he leads the team in walks with 59.

mr_genius
08-10-2005, 04:38 PM
It's gotten to a point where I think some people praise him too much because of all the negative stuff and others rip him too much because of the positive stuff. Konerko is probably overrated by his supporters and underrated by his critics.

thats pretty much exactly what has happened

mr_genius
08-10-2005, 04:39 PM
"Uh oh"

huh?

Jerome
08-10-2005, 05:21 PM
"Crediocre"....bwah ha ha ha!


haha thats very funny.

hawkjt
08-10-2005, 05:57 PM
Paulie and gooch have carried this team offensively for the last two weeks. If you do not give Paul the contract who should get it? The sox are having a dream season and many seem to not be enjoying it because our leading hitter is up for a contract next year? And they seem to hate him?

Quote heard from Paulie on the radio today when asked about his gamewinning homer last nite'' this team is all about the pitching.'' Sounds like a true glory hound,huh? No one notices the 99% of his comments that are all about the team. Relax and enjoy the ride to a title gang.

munchman33
08-10-2005, 06:28 PM
Paulie and gooch have carried this team offensively for the last two weeks.

Which brings the grand total of weeks Konerko's carried us to two.

Let's give him whatever he wants!

maurice
08-10-2005, 06:29 PM
How is it the opposite of the truth?

For all the reasons contained in the portion of my post that you didn't quote.
:tongue:

In short, many posters provide many reasons why Konerko is not a good fit on this team, especially at > $8 mil. / year. OTOH, the most ardent Konerko defenders (with the possible exception of yourself and ON2) ignore all of these reasons and hang their hat on 1 or 2 stats, and mushy, irrelevant, untrue, and / or unprovable "reasons" why he's more valuable than his numbers show. They also like to compare him, for no logical reason, only to other AL 1Bs. This thread contains numerous examples of this type of "reasoning."

Would you disagree that the one stat this year that has been thrown around the most in an attempt to knock Konerko is his RISP?

Yes, I disagree. IIRC, his AVE w/ RiSP stats from this year are used to disprove the notion that RBI totals = clutch hitter, irresepective of the batters hitting in front of him. That's certainly the only way that I've used them. Aside from this year, it hasn't been a problem, though he's been a very bad situational hitter for the past several years.

Would you disagree that the stats last year that were used most often to knock Konerko were his home/road splits?

I don't know. However, I do know that this wasn't the only stat used against him. For example a long-standing complaint is his streakiness, as reflected in his month-to-month splits.

Yet if you throw out 2003 where he was extremely bad in everything he did . . . .

Thanks for reminding me. Konerko defenders also irrationally believe that we can just "throw out 2003."
:tongue:

I just find it funny how people grasp at that one stat for each year to say Konerko sucks, even if that stat happens to be an abberation from how he normally hits.

Again, you're overstating it. You might find a single post where only a single stat is cited, but when you look at all of the relevant posts by, say, Taylor, other reasons are cited for their criticisms. You might not agree with all of the criticisms, but they are multiple.

It's gotten to a point where I think some people praise him too much because of all the negative stuff and others rip him too much because of the positive stuff. Konerko is probably overrated by his supporters and underrated by his critics.

That's probably true, at least with respect to the clubhouse stuff. The evidence is not sufficient to prove that Konerko is a clubhouse cancer or a clubhouse leader. He's probably just some average schmuck with a big mouth who doesn't add or detract from team chemistry in any meaningful way.

maurice
08-10-2005, 06:39 PM
I know people would love to see his averaqe up with RISP and and RSIP 2 outs up, but either way the man knocks in 100+ a year.

No, he doesn't.

Look at the guys who have the higher averages with RISP, and they wont have as many RBIS. Paulie probably gets 150+ at bats a year with RISP, against another hitter who might get 60 or 70. Its easier to hit 300 in 60 at bats than it its 150.

Worst logic ever. Konerko's RBI total is higher than "another hitter who might get 60 or 70" at bats a year with RiSP precisely because he gets more ABs with RiSP. That doesn't mean that Konerko is better than the other hitter. It means that he's more fortunate than the other hitter. It may be "easier to hit .300 in 60 at bats than it is 150," but it's also much, MUCH easier to knock in 100 runs with 150 ABs than it is with 60. It's also easier to hit .090 in 60 ABs than it is with 60, since the impact of luck on small sample sizes cuts both ways.

Ol' No. 2
08-10-2005, 09:12 PM
For all the reasons contained in the portion of my post that you didn't quote.
:tongue:

In short, many posters provide many reasons why Konerko is not a good fit on this team, especially at > $8 mil. / year. OTOH, the most ardent Konerko defenders (with the possible exception of yourself and ON2) ignore all of these reasons and hang their hat on 1 or 2 stats, and mushy, irrelevant, untrue, and / or unprovable "reasons" why he's more valuable than his numbers show. They also like to compare him, for no logical reason, only to other AL 1Bs. This thread contains numerous examples of this type of "reasoning."



Yes, I disagree. IIRC, his AVE w/ RiSP stats from this year are used to disprove the notion that RBI totals = clutch hitter, irresepective of the batters hitting in front of him. That's certainly the only way that I've used them. Aside from this year, it hasn't been a problem, though he's been a very bad situational hitter for the past several years.



I don't know. However, I do know that this wasn't the only stat used against him. For example a long-standing complaint is his streakiness, as reflected in his month-to-month splits.



Thanks for reminding me. Konerko defenders also irrationally believe that we can just "throw out 2003."
:tongue:



Again, you're overstating it. You might find a single post where only a single stat is cited, but when you look at all of the relevant posts by, say, Taylor, other reasons are cited for their criticisms. You might not agree with all of the criticisms, but they are multiple.



That's probably true, at least with respect to the clubhouse stuff. The evidence is not sufficient to prove that Konerko is a clubhouse cancer or a clubhouse leader. He's probably just some average schmuck with a big mouth who doesn't add or detract from team chemistry in any meaningful way.People keep talking about Konerko's streakiness as if he's the only player ever to have bad months. But streakiness is pretty common among power hitters. Delgado has had his share - he really stunk it up the first four months of 2004. Overbay had a weak June this year and didn't do much the last half of 2004 (injury?). Sean Casey, Teixeira, Guerrero, the list goes on. All of these guys have one or more bad months over the course of a season. I don't know how you'd measure it objectively, but I don't see Konerko as being significantly worse than any other power hitter.

PaleHoseGeorge
08-10-2005, 09:16 PM
....I don't know how you'd measure it objectively, but I don't see Konerko as being significantly worse than any other power hitter.

Konerko's streaks are of biblical proportions. I'm waiting for locusts to descend on him in the batter's box and eat his entire uniform, leaving only his batting gloves' velcro strips around his wrists -- which Paul will doubtlessly adjust before the next pitch.

:cool:

FarWestChicago
08-10-2005, 09:18 PM
Konerko's streaks are of biblical porportions. I'm waiting for locusts to descend on him in the batter's box and eat his entire uniform, leaving only his batting gloves' velcro strips around his wrists -- which Paul will doubtlessly adjust before the next pitch.

:cool:This is great writing. :thumbsup:

It has that "lumbering ox" feel to it. :cool:

Optipessimism
08-10-2005, 09:47 PM
I'd love an upgrade over Pauly, but since there isn't going to be anything available at 1B over the offseason, Paulie would likely be one of the hottest commodities. That said, we would have to make a trade for a better 1B and whoever is looking to unload someone is going to ask for the moon. As much as I hate to say it, if the Sox can get Paulie at a discount now they might be wise to do so. Who knows what Milwaukee is going to ask for Overbay or what Arizona or Seattle would ask for Glaus of Sexson if they are available at all.

TornLabrum
08-11-2005, 12:03 AM
Konerko's streaks are of biblical proportions. I'm waiting for locusts to descend on him in the batter's box and eat his entire uniform, leaving only his batting gloves' velcro strips around his wrists -- which Paul will doubtlessly adjust before the next pitch.

:cool:

I remember one slump of Konerko's that lasted from the All-Star Game one year to the All-Star Game the next. I also remember him getting off to a hot start during April and May one year and deciding while he was hitting around .360 or something like that to change his stance.

Konerko isn't just streaky. He's also stupid.

maurice
08-11-2005, 11:48 AM
I'll go so far as to concede the streakiness point for the sake of argument and run with ON2's examples of Delgado and Overbay. I might be willing to put up with the streakiness and pay him $10+ mil. / year, if he were capable of posting numbers like Delgado. Unfortunately, that's never going to happen, so I'd rather have a similar player (like Overbay) for less than half the money.

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/miramax_films/pulp_fiction/_group_photos/bruce_willis19.jpg
"The thing is, Paulie, right now, you've got ability. But painful as it may be, ability don't last. Now that's a hard mother****in' fact of life. But it's a fact of life your ass is gonna hafta get realistic about. See this business is filled to the brim with unrealistic mother****ers who think they can post a 1.000 OPS. Mother****ers who thought their ass would age like wine. If you mean it turns to vinegar, it does. If you mean it gets better with age, it don't. You came close, but you never made it, and if you were gonna post a 1.000 OPS, you woulda done it before now."

Ol' No. 2
08-11-2005, 12:30 PM
I'll go so far as to concede the streakiness point for the sake of argument and run with ON2's examples of Delgado and Overbay. I might be willing to put up with the streakiness and pay him $10+ mil. / year, if he were capable of posting numbers like Delgado. Unfortunately, that's never going to happen, so I'd rather have a similar player (like Overbay) for less than half the money.

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/miramax_films/pulp_fiction/_group_photos/bruce_willis19.jpg
"The thing is, Paulie, right now, you've got ability. But painful as it may be, ability don't last. Now that's a hard mother****in' fact of life. But it's a fact of life your ass is gonna hafta get realistic about. See this business is filled to the brim with unrealistic mother****ers who think they can post a 1.000 OPS. Mother****ers who thought their ass would age like wine. If you mean it turns to vinegar, it does. If you mean it gets better with age, it don't. You came close, but you never made it, and if you were gonna post a 1.000 OPS, you woulda done it before now."Konerko doesn't put up numbers like Delgado, but he doesn't get paid like him, either. After looking at similar players, I think $8-9M is about right for him. Overbay would be a nice replacement, but can you get him and what are you going to have to trade? As I've said before, I have no problem with offering arbitration and letting him go elsewhere if he wants. Sign a journeyman 1B for 1 yr + an option and groom Rogowski and/or Sweeney for the future.

I wouldn't call myself a FOPK, but I agree with Jjav that he tends to get a bad rap around here.

maurice
08-11-2005, 01:00 PM
Konerko doesn't put up numbers like Delgado, but he doesn't get paid like him, either.

See, I don't view it as a sliding scale, where 80% of the production is worth 80% of the salary. There is a small handful of truly great hitters who arguably earn their huge contracts, because their extreme production is essentially unreplaceable. Everybody else is woth substantially less, simply because they are much, much easier to replace. Heck, you could even make a strong argument that a team with a < $100 mil. payroll shouldn't have any $9+ mil. position players, because it's too risky, etc. to devote 10+% of your payroll to a single position player. Unless we're getting Delgado production, I'd rather have a team of position players with < $5 mil. contracts and spend the rest assembling the best possible starting pitching. JMHO.

sox_fan_forever
08-11-2005, 02:07 PM
I'm not a huge PK fan, but I don't hate him either. If Kenny can keep him for not too much, then that's ok with me, but otherwise I want him gone. Use the money for more pitching. After what KW did this past offseason I feel pretty confident he knows what he's doing and will make good decisions.

Ol' No. 2
08-11-2005, 02:14 PM
See, I don't view it as a sliding scale, where 80% of the production is worth 80% of the salary. There is a small handful of truly great hitters who arguably earn their huge contracts, because their extreme production is essentially unreplaceable. Everybody else is woth substantially less, simply because they are much, much easier to replace. Heck, you could even make a strong argument that a team with a < $100 mil. payroll shouldn't have any $9+ mil. position players, because it's too risky, etc. to devote 10+% of your payroll to a single position player. Unless we're getting Delgado production, I'd rather have a team of position players with < $5 mil. contracts and spend the rest assembling the best possible starting pitching. JMHO.Well, that's a fair argument. But how do you determine exactly what a given level of production is worth? There will inevitably be more productive players making less and less productive players making more. I doubt you could replace Konerko's production with a FA for significantly less. You could possibly replace him with someone younger and cheaper (read not yet a FA), but you'd have to trade away one or more prospects to do it, and those prospects have value that has to be added to the equation.

IMO, where all these arguments break down is when they're discussed in the abstract. It becomes much clearer when you have real choices between real players. Whether you want to pay Konerko $8M or $10M or whatever depends on your alternatives. Without knowing just what those alternatives are, we can go around and around all day and never get anywhere.

maurice
08-11-2005, 03:07 PM
You could possibly replace him with someone younger and cheaper (read not yet a FA), but you'd have to trade away one or more prospects to do it, and those prospects have value that has to be added to the equation. IMO, where all these arguments break down is when they're discussed in the abstract. It becomes much clearer when you have real choices between real players.

That's true. Moreover, we can never know exactly what will exchange hands in a trade until after the deal is done. Media reports rarely predict the details of a trade correctly. Typically, WSI posters believe that you have to trade the sun, the moon, and the stars to get, say, Joe Randa. The reality is that most MLB veterans can be had for 1 or 2 decent prospects, especially if you're willing to take on 100% of their contract. Also, it's likely that none of the prospects in any given trade will ever be as valuable as the proven veteran. The bust rate, even among highly touted prospects, is extremely high. Plenty of "sure All Stars" end up as career AAAA, bench, or platoon players.

I have a lot of faith in KW's ability to pick which mid-level salary guys are the best values (e.g., Contreras, Hermanson, Politte, Pierzynski, Iguchi, Dye, Everett, Podsednik, etc.) without giving up future HOFers in return.

Domeshot17
08-11-2005, 04:52 PM
I really dont think anyone realizes hat if Lyle Overbay was hitting 4 for us and not PK, we would have about 10-15 less wins. A Power hitting 4 hitters is what makes the 3 5 6 and sometimes 7 hitters in the lineup better. You dont need 4 30 home run hitters to win a division, but you need 1 or 2.

Tragg
08-11-2005, 04:56 PM
I really dont think anyone realizes hat if Lyle Overbay was hitting 4 for us and not PK, we would have about 10-15 less wins. A Power hitting 4 hitters is what makes the 3 5 6 and sometimes 7 hitters in the lineup better. You dont need 4 30 home run hitters to win a division, but you need 1 or 2.
I don't know if we'd drop that many wins, but I agree with you on the importance of power - if we give up power at 1B, we have to make it up somewhere else. Some think Overbay can hit 30, but I don't see it. And I don't think Overbay has as much trade value as others do.

mr_genius
08-11-2005, 05:18 PM
:walnuts

"Overbay is the worst player I've ever played against"


:crede

"What about me?"



:walnuts

"I said played against"




This episode of WSI theatre was brought to you by mr_genius

Domeshot17
08-11-2005, 05:48 PM
Im not knocking our Sox, what Im saying is the reason people like Aaron and Dye and Carl see good pitches is because we have a power threat in the middle of the order. Lyle Overbay will not hit 30 home runs, it is that simple. If anyone wants to argue, check out his scouting reports and stats since the minor leagues. His Power Numbers are up this year (and he is protected by Carlos Lee), but his average is down, his doubles are way down, and his K's are up. The man hit 61 home runs in 4 years in the minors and 36 in a little over 2 years in the pros, total. His doubles will only continue to decrease away from Milwuakee and in the cell, much smaller gaps. His home runs maybe go up 3 or 4 for the season, but that is no given either.

A friend told me so what if he doesnt hit home runs, neither did Kevin Millar when the Bo Sox won it. But they Had Manny and Ortiz. So in my mind, that makes Overbay a 6 hitter, and we have a team FULL of 6 hitters. People say go spend the money on pitching, WE HAVE THE PITCHING, and it will only be getting better with Bmac on the way. We did not trade him because he was our future, so instead we go and sign someone to knock him out of the rotation? We could use a SS upgrade next year, but Uribe is locked up long term. We have a blaring need for a home run hitter if Paulie leaves.

And for whoever said Paulie was stupid, listen to him talk about hitting philosophy. The man was hitting 230 ( While being top 5 in home runs and Rbi) when he could easily have been hitting 265-270 with all the hard outs he hit into. Which means he could easily be hitting closer to 290 now. If he was hitting 290, this would not even be a debate. He knows how to hit, and he is one of the hardest workers on the sox.

PaleHoseGeorge
08-11-2005, 05:54 PM
....[deleted for brevity, a big long stated opinion with barely a shred of evidence to support it] ....He knows how to hit, and he is one of the hardest workers on the sox.

Next time just cut to the chase, okay? We already know why you like Konerko. Just give us the baby, because we don't care about the bathwater.

Go ahead, tell us he's a great clubhouse guy too. We know it's in you. Just say it already.

Domeshot17
08-11-2005, 06:03 PM
lol I thought my evidence wasnt bad. The overybay homers and doubles and average!

Sorry about the long post, have a tendancy to type as I think and not go back and edit.

PicktoCLick72
08-11-2005, 06:12 PM
I would like to resign Konerko if we don't have to pay through the roof to get him. Considering he is one of the best free agents available this winter, that may be a problem. I do not however think Lyle Overbay should be coming in. People say we were able to replace Maggs and CLee and get better, bu that is becasue of the umber of players we were abl to get in return. This free agent class is weak so we have to be aware of that.

maurice
08-11-2005, 06:21 PM
I don't know if we'd drop that many wins, but I agree with you on the importance of power - if we give up power at 1B, we have to make it up somewhere else. Some think Overbay can hit 30, but I don't see it.

I agree. If you switched Overbay and Konerko this year, I don't think Overbay would hit 30 HR. OTOH, he'd hit 25+ HR, give you more 2B, give you an OBP around .380, and save $8 million to wisely spend elsewhere. Want a better hitting SS with a good glove? $8 mil. = Edgar Renteria. IMHO, swapping Konerko for Overbay and Renteria would improve the team. It certainly wouldn't cost the Sox 10-15 games.

I still want a .950+ OPS guy (Griffey? Helton?) to bat cleanup, but unfortunately Frank got hurt, and the answer obviously is not Konerko.

If he was hitting 290, this would not even be a debate.

Unfortunately, the Sox play their games in the real world, where Konerko's hitting .267 -- and hasn't hit .290+ since 2002.

The Wimperoo
08-11-2005, 06:40 PM
Konerko has 14 win shares
Overbay has 12

That's definitely not enough for Konerko to account for 10-15 more wins than Overbay.

maurice
08-16-2005, 12:30 PM
After yesterday's game, the next person who claims that "Paulie is a hard worker" ought to be banned. Did he run out a single ball? He failed to run out at least 3.

Rocky Soprano
08-16-2005, 12:50 PM
After yesterday's game, the next person who claims that "Paulie is a hard worker" ought to be banned. Did he run out a single ball? He failed to run out at least 3.

The retard just stood there watching the ball, cause he thought the ball might be foul. Dont tell always tell you to run, obviously it was going to be close, so why not at least jog a bit.

And don't get me on how UNCLUTH he is.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE get us Obervay and get rid of Konerko!

maurice
08-16-2005, 01:45 PM
The retard just stood there watching the ball, cause he thought the ball might be foul. Dont tell always tell you to run....

If you're Juan Uribe, they tell you and then they bench you. We'll see if Ozzie's going to play favorites.

Ol' No. 2
08-16-2005, 01:47 PM
If you're Juan Uribe, they tell you and then they bench you. We'll see if Ozzie's going to play favorites.You're not going to see what goes on in the clubhouse. PK deserves a good frying, but if he doesn't play tonight is it because he's been benched or because he's getting a rest?

Optipessimism
08-16-2005, 01:57 PM
I agree. If you switched Overbay and Konerko this year, I don't think Overbay would hit 30 HR. OTOH, he'd hit 25+ HR, give you more 2B, give you an OBP around .380, and save $8 million to wisely spend elsewhere. Want a better hitting SS with a good glove? $8 mil. = Edgar Renteria. IMHO, swapping Konerko for Overbay and Renteria would improve the team. It certainly wouldn't cost the Sox 10-15 games.

I still want a .950+ OPS guy (Griffey? Helton?) to bat cleanup, but unfortunately Frank got hurt, and the answer obviously is not Konerko.



Unfortunately, the Sox play their games in the real world, where Konerko's hitting .267 -- and hasn't hit .290+ since 2002.

Lyle missed some time this year. Look at Uribe's increase in HR's last year and Dye and Pierzynski's increase this year. IMO, a healthy Overbay hits at LEAST 30 HR's at the Cell. I'd probably bet on 31-34.

That said, I don't know if we have enough to get him. I still think Milwaukee is going to want pitching, probably starting pitching. I don't think anyone should even think about getting Lyle if they would have trouble giving up McCarthy and at least one of Marte/Vizcaino/Cotts.

wdelaney72
08-16-2005, 02:38 PM
I think Maurice hit on the head with Konerko. We're still a team with a payroll under $100. Konerko obviously has value and is a good hitter, but it just seems to me the money could be more wisely spent on pitching.

I won't be upset if Konerko walks. If Kenny does extend him, I don't want to hear later about financial constrants. Konerko is not good enough to deserve a contract that will keep us from making improvements elsewhere.