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Chips
08-09-2005, 11:24 PM
Was anyone else disgusted when Jeter and A-Rod were conversing and laughing while the National Anthem was being played before tonights game?

I used to was think these were decent guys, but now they really disgust me. Couple of jackasses in my opinion.

BeviBall!
08-09-2005, 11:27 PM
Was anyone else disgusted when Jeter and A-Rod were conversing and laughing while the National Anthem was being played before tonights game?

I used to was think these were decent guys, but now they really disgust me. Couple of jackasses in my opinion.

C'mon now. This is far from Rosanne Barr.

PeteWard
08-09-2005, 11:44 PM
Was anyone else disgusted when Jeter and A-Rod were conversing and laughing while the National Anthem was being played before tonights game?

I used to was think these were decent guys, but now they really disgust me. Couple of jackasses in my opinion.

Oh please! I guess they "hate America" right?

TimoandAaron
08-09-2005, 11:45 PM
Was anyone else disgusted when Jeter and A-Rod were conversing and laughing while the National Anthem was being played before tonights game?

I used to was think these were decent guys, but now they really disgust me. Couple of jackasses in my opinion.are you one of the persons who think it is rude too cheer and clap during the anthem???

Chips
08-09-2005, 11:47 PM
Yes, I like it to be quiet.


And no I don't think they hate America, I just think they are rude.

Ol' No. 2
08-09-2005, 11:49 PM
Yes, I like it to be quiet.


And no I don't think they hate America, I just think they are rude.I agree. I believe there's a league rule about it. MLB should enforce it. It's not as if we're asking them to play without steroids or something hard like that.

TheOldRoman
08-09-2005, 11:50 PM
Oh please! I guess they "hate America" right?
Don't be a jack ass. He didn't say that, he said that he didn't like them laughing and joking through the anthem. I agree with him. It's a complete lack of respect.

Hokiesox
08-09-2005, 11:52 PM
There's a difference between looking at your buddy and smiling b/c the singer is truly awful, and openly jabbering while the song is going on. Everyone should be respectful, and there's nothing like the anthem in the old Chicago Stadium before a Blackhawks game, so I won't say be quiet, cuz I never was in the old barn.

The historian in me wants to drink my beer during the song since the tune is from an 18th century British Drinking song sung in pubs all over Great Britain at the time.

Stroker Ace
08-09-2005, 11:55 PM
Yes, I like it to be quiet.


And no I don't think they hate America, I just think they are rude.I agree with you. I think that it is rude to be talking or making noise during the National Anthem. I was pissed when on an ESPN radio national broadcast, they kept talking during the Anthem.

TimoandAaron
08-09-2005, 11:55 PM
There's a difference between looking at your buddy and smiling b/c the singer is truly awful, and openly jabbering while the song is going on. Everyone should be respectful, and there's nothing like the anthem in the old Chicago Stadium before a Blackhawks game, so I won't say be quiet, cuz I never was in the old barn.

The historian in me wants to drink my beer during the song since the tune is from an 18th century British Drinking song sung in pubs all over Great Britain at the time.have u ever heard the anthem in the chicago stadium?

http://chicagoblackhawks.com/multimedia/AudioVideoClassicsArchive.asp

there is a video of the 91 all-star game anthem. It was LOUD!

kittle42
08-10-2005, 12:31 AM
Was anyone else disgusted when Jeter and A-Rod were conversing and laughing while the National Anthem was being played before tonights game?

Nope.

StockdaleForVeep
08-10-2005, 12:36 AM
Yes, I like it to be quiet.


And no I don't think they hate America, I just think they are rude.

The 30,000+ at the 91 NHL all star game at the stadium would disagree with u

TornLabrum
08-10-2005, 12:42 AM
Odd...when I grew up in the '50s, we were taught to stand facing the flag with our hands or caps over our hearts and BE QUIET during the National Anthem as a sign of respect for our country. I was never taught that it was respectful to let out a whoop when someone hits the high note on the word "free" (or even before).

I was taught that doing anything other than standing, saluting, etc. was disrespectful. I guess this is what happens when we mix up sporting events with expressions of patriotism. The drunken idiots set the tone.

elrod
08-10-2005, 12:59 AM
I was taught that doing anything other than standing, saluting, etc. was disrespectful. I guess this is what happens when we mix up sporting events with expressions of patriotism. The drunken idiots set the tone.

Bingo. Sports is a commercial event where people don't take national symbols very seriously. I personally like the National Anthem because it was written in Baltimore and I always thought about Key himself while watching games at Camden Yards. I always thought the fans yelling "OOOOOO" was disrespectful - but mostly because the Anthem itself was a Baltimore creation and was something that people there should take special pride in.

Now singing God Bless America in the 7th inning stretch is a different matter. I HATE that song and I see no reason for its inclusion in a baseball game (or anywhere, for that matter). The Star Spangled Banner is one of my favorite patriotic songs period. Why do we sing GBA too?

ilsox7
08-10-2005, 02:15 AM
Bingo. Sports is a commercial event where people don't take national symbols very seriously. I personally like the National Anthem because it was written in Baltimore and I always thought about Key himself while watching games at Camden Yards. I always thought the fans yelling "OOOOOO" was disrespectful - but mostly because the Anthem itself was a Baltimore creation and was something that people there should take special pride in.

Now singing God Bless America in the 7th inning stretch is a different matter. I HATE that song and I see no reason for its inclusion in a baseball game (or anywhere, for that matter). The Star Spangled Banner is one of my favorite patriotic songs period. Why do we sing GBA too?

Interesting...especially considering MANY people feel that GBA should be our National Anthem. Not saying I necessarily do, but I know a lot of so-called experts out there think it should be.

chitownhawkfan
08-10-2005, 02:33 AM
I love singing GBA it means a lot more to me than hearing some song about Peanuts and Cracker Jacks. I dont mind if people start cheering towards the end of the Anthem even though I dont, but if I am within earshot of people talking during the National Anthem I will let them know to show some respect and shut it. This kind of reminds me of that scene from "Slapshot" "We're trying to listen to the effing song!"

SomebodyToldMe
08-10-2005, 02:52 AM
I stand and am quiet for the anthem, but I don't stand for God Bless America. I don't because 1) it's not our anthem and 2) in my opinion, it shouldn't be at a baseball game. 7th Inning Stretch is a time for "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" and just because something's going on in the world, it won't make me think otherwise.

Call me a moron or whatever you want. That's just what I think.

StockdaleForVeep
08-10-2005, 03:02 AM
I stand and am quiet for the anthem, but I don't stand for God Bless America. I don't because 1) it's not our anthem and 2) in my opinion, it shouldn't be at a baseball game. 7th Inning Stretch is a time for "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" and just because something's going on in the world, it won't make me think otherwise.

Call me a moron or whatever you want. That's just what I think.

GBA has been played since the towers fell, yes its said during the announcement that it is for the soldiers who are serving right now but in principle its still sang for rememberance of 9\11

I only cheer at hawk games because thats the hawk tradition, for other games i let loose during the ending notes. Why should you be silent when you have pride in the nation and you wanna express it during the song.

As for disrespect, isnt it disrespect for baseball to have jagbags who cant sing do the nat'l anthem as a publicity stunt or the sCrUBS having celebs do the "take me out to the ball game" and making a mockery of it?

CLR01
08-10-2005, 03:45 AM
I stand and am quiet for the anthem, but I don't stand for God Bless America. I don't because 1) it's not our anthem and 2) in my opinion, it shouldn't be at a baseball game. 7th Inning Stretch is a time for "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" and just because something's going on in the world, it won't make me think otherwise.

Call me a moron or whatever you want. That's just what I think.


Same here. GBA has no place at a baseball game.

StockdaleForVeep
08-10-2005, 04:16 AM
Same here. GBA has no place at a baseball game.

And bratwurst racing and other spectacles to entertain people have a place in baseball?

Cat Thief
08-10-2005, 08:42 AM
I stand and am quiet for the anthem, but I don't stand for God Bless America. I don't because 1) it's not our anthem and 2) in my opinion, it shouldn't be at a baseball game. 7th Inning Stretch is a time for "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" and just because something's going on in the world, it won't make me think otherwise.

Call me a moron or whatever you want. That's just what I think.


God forbid if you stood again for a couple of minutes to honor your country.

downstairs
08-10-2005, 09:08 AM
Now singing God Bless America in the 7th inning stretch is a different matter. I HATE that song and I see no reason for its inclusion in a baseball game (or anywhere, for that matter). The Star Spangled Banner is one of my favorite patriotic songs period. Why do we sing GBA too?

Absolutely. I think its tired by now. Most teams have stopped doing it, right?

I know many will disagree with me... but at this point it just seems like NY is selling this "God Bless America" thing a bit too hard now (nearly 4 years later). I just turn it off when they're in NY.

slavko
08-10-2005, 09:14 AM
Is there anyone who doesn't stand for YMCA?

FielderJones
08-10-2005, 10:36 AM
The historian in me wants to drink my beer during the song since the tune is from an 18th century British Drinking song sung in pubs all over Great Britain at the time.

If you go to Josiah Chowning's pub in Colonial Williamsburg, the musicians will sing To Anacreon in Heaven (http://www.bcpl.net/%7Eetowner/anacreon.html) sometime during the dinner hour.

:tongue:

kittle42
08-10-2005, 11:00 AM
Interesting...especially considering MANY people feel that GBA should be our National Anthem. Not saying I necessarily do, but I know a lot of so-called experts out there think it should be.

Experts on national anthems?

kittle42
08-10-2005, 11:03 AM
God forbid if you stood again for a couple of minutes to honor your country.

I think the point is that "God Bless America" doesn't honor our country anymore than "Proud to be an American" or that Toby Keith song. In fact, despite my dislike for those last two songs, I'd rather they be played.

BeviBall!
08-10-2005, 11:04 AM
And bratwurst racing and other spectacles to entertain people have a place in baseball?

Seriously. Would it kill people to stand for GBA and honor the troops and vets? No, wait, I'll pay attention to the Connies Pizza Race and cheer for a triple on the fan-o-meter.

Arod and Jeter chuckling isn't that big a deal... c'mon. At least they were facing the flag.

BeviBall!
08-10-2005, 11:07 AM
I think the point is that "God Bless America" doesn't honor our country anymore than "Proud to be an American" or that Toby Keith song. In fact, despite my dislike for those last two songs, I'd rather they be played.

I guarantee you the author of GBA didn't go looking to make a fast, easy buck off his song like fat ol' Toby. Well, it is the American Way these days... and it's disgusting.

kittle42
08-10-2005, 11:19 AM
I guarantee you the author of GBA didn't go looking to make a fast, easy buck off his song like fat ol' Toby. Well, it is the American Way these days... and it's disgusting.

Nevertheless, it's not our national anthem. Neither is America the Beautiful or any other song that isn't the Star Spangled Banner. The latter deserves reverence. The rest are just songs.

Cat Thief
08-10-2005, 11:20 AM
[QUOTE=BeviBall!] No, wait, I'll pay attention to the Connies Pizza Race and cheer for a triple on the fan-o-meter.QUOTE]

Yeah and don't forget to stand and try to get a tee shirt from the Chevy Pride Crew.

I'm not sure how God Bless America dosen't honor our country anymore than Proud to Be an American.

I'm done with this thread, before I get banned.

kittle42
08-10-2005, 11:24 AM
I'm done with this thread, before I get banned.

Me, too!

The Dude
08-10-2005, 12:04 PM
I also think it's rude as hell when people dont remove their hats, continue walking up and down the aisles,and yell and scream during the anthem. But the great thing about our country is we have that freedom to do that if we please.

Railsplitter
08-10-2005, 12:09 PM
It wasn't until "God Bless America" was played ad nauseum during the 7th inning stretch that I realized what mediocre song it is, little more than a list a geographic features. At least "The Star-Spangled Banner" recalls an acutual moment in American history.

StockdaleForVeep
08-10-2005, 12:34 PM
I also think it's rude as hell when people dont remove their hats, continue walking up and down the aisles,and yell and scream during the anthem. But the great thing about our country is we have that freedom to do that if we please.

Heh, one time i woke up late for a 6 pm game(yes) and i headed to the game unshowered, i put my hat on cuz my hair still had spiking glue and such in it from the night before. Anthem played and i took my hat off, worst hat hair\sight ever witnessed by man

TornLabrum
08-10-2005, 02:15 PM
I guarantee you the author of GBA didn't go looking to make a fast, easy buck off his song like fat ol' Toby. Well, it is the American Way these days... and it's disgusting.

GBA was written during WWI by Irving Berlin for a show that was being put on my members of the U.S. Army. The show was running long, and the song was dropped. It sat in Berlin's trunk for about 20 years.

When the conditions in Europe that led to WWII were worsening (the verse starts, "While the storm clouds gather/Far across the sea"), he resurrected the song and gave it to Kate Smith who sang it on her radio show and recorded it. Berlin never made a dime off the royalties. He donated them all to the Boy Scouts (and later added the Girl Scouts) of America.

In WWII, Berlin produced and appeared on Broadway in "This Is the Army." After it's Broadway run and a movie version, the show toured the United States and eventually made its way to all theaters of operations.

DickAllen72
08-10-2005, 05:38 PM
May God bless America.

CLR01
08-10-2005, 10:05 PM
And bratwurst racing and other spectacles to entertain people have a place in baseball?


I don't stand for those either but they are certainly more in-line with the atmosphere of a baseball game than GBA.

CLR01
08-10-2005, 10:11 PM
God forbid if you stood again for a couple of minutes to honor your country.

Seriously. Would it kill people to stand for GBA and honor the troops and vets? No, wait, I'll pay attention to the Connies Pizza Race and cheer for a triple on the fan-o-meter.


Why not just replay the national anthem or a monent of silence? Is GBA the best they could come up with?

silenceofthehawk
08-10-2005, 10:15 PM
Was anyone else disgusted when Jeter and A-Rod were conversing and laughing while the National Anthem was being played before tonights game?

I used to was think these were decent guys, but now they really disgust me. Couple of jackasses in my opinion.
who cares?

StockdaleForVeep
08-10-2005, 10:17 PM
I don't stand for those either but they are certainly more in-line with the atmosphere of a baseball game than GBA.

How you figure? What does a running sausage have to do with a baseball game?

CLR01
08-10-2005, 10:46 PM
How you figure? What does a running sausage have to do with a baseball game?

Absolutely nothing. Ofcourse that is not what I said.

certainly more in-line with the atmosphere of a baseball game than GBA.


You know baseball being a game and all you go to the park to be entertained, be it the action on the field, on the scoreboard, or other attractions around the park.

Rooney4Prez56
08-10-2005, 10:54 PM
Was anyone else disgusted when Jeter and A-Rod were conversing and laughing while the National Anthem was being played before tonights game?

I used to was think these were decent guys, but now they really disgust me. Couple of jackasses in my opinion.

I saw that too, and I was wondering who else noticed it. It was rude of them to laugh, because the National Anthem is supposed to be a moment of silence, unless you are singing along. They are idiots, I'm with you on that. And it wouldn't have killed them to joke around after the Anthem.

monkeypants
08-11-2005, 01:13 AM
God forbid if you stood again for a couple of minutes to honor your country.

God forbid if we could keep God and ever encroaching nationalism out of an entertainment event.

ZachAL
08-11-2005, 02:13 AM
Was anyone else disgusted when Jeter and A-Rod were conversing and laughing while the National Anthem was being played before tonights game?

I used to was think these were decent guys, but now they really disgust me. Couple of jackasses in my opinion.

I don't think they meant anything disrespectful by it. I was actually taken a-back at today's game when I saw Carl laughing and conversing and doing these same things during the anthem...but these guys hear it everyday and I dont think they mean any disrespect, although I don't condone their laughing.

elrod
08-11-2005, 02:19 AM
I absolutely love our national anthem, as I said upthread. I hate GBA because I'm not religious and I fundamentally disagree with the basic premise of the song. I can't say that about any other "patriotic" song (well, except that "God Bless the USA" song by Lee Greenwood) - including Toby Keith or whoever. God Bless America makes me very uncomfortable. The Star Spangled Banner makes me feel very patriotic - it's about sticking it out through a difficult fight and "our flag was still there". That's just my personal opinion. As for tradition, we sing the Star Spangled Banner as a moment to express our patriotism. With the exception of particularly difficult national moments - like the months after 9/11 - there is no reason to "add" any other patriotic songs. And for those periods, a moment of silence would be much more powerful.

Optipessimism
08-11-2005, 05:03 AM
I only like hearing the National Anthem during regular season games, because it always seems like if it is an important game they'll throw out the Backstreet Boys or some crap like that and completely butcher it. In spite of what many 'talented performers' may think, there is only one version of the Star Spangled Banner and it is only meant to be sung in one way. I don't want to see Moby out there with a drum machine in a collaboration with Paula 'I'm melting' Abdul or anything like that. Just give me one person with a voice and some respect for the country, and that's it. No forty second 'and the rocket's red glaaaaaaaaaare' and no "by the da-da-daaawwwwwwwwns, the dawns early - early - early liiiiiiight" either.

As for Take Me Out to the Ballgame, for some reason I can't stand that. Maybe because it's sung just about everywhere. But IMO America the Beautiful or God Bless America or anything patriotic is at least three hundred times worse. Why must we sing a song about a mythological being blessing our nation and it's actions? How about no singing? Or if we are expected to sing, how come we can't just sing 'Meet the Flintstones' or something? I say throw up a picture of beer, nachos, and a toilet on the scoreboard because that's all the 7th inning stretch is for.

ilsox7
08-11-2005, 05:05 AM
I only like hearing the National Anthem during regular season games, because it always seems like if it is an important game they'll throw out the Backstreet Boys or some crap like that and completely butcher it. In spite of what many 'talented performers' may think, there is only one version of the Star Spangled Banner and it is only meant to be sung in one way. I don't want to see Moby out there with a drum machine in a collaboration with Paula 'I'm melting' Abdul or anything like that. Just give me one person with a voice and some respect for the country, and that's it. No forty second 'and the rocket's red glaaaaaaaaaare' and no "by the da-da-daaawwwwwwwwns, the dawns early - early - early liiiiiiight" either.



Pretty much agree, however the best Anthem rendition I have heard in a LONG time was the trumpet solo at a half-price Monday game earlier this season. I think it was the JC blow-up game, but it was one hell of a performance. A professor at Columbia college I do believe.

Optipessimism
08-11-2005, 05:15 AM
I say throw up a picture of beer, nachos, and a toilet on the scoreboard because that's all the 7th inning stretch is for.

Just had an idea. It's kind of ripping off the Sausage Race at Miller Park, but how about a race around the park consisting of a guy in a toilet suit, a guy in a nacho costume, and another guy dressed like a beer?

Or, maybe a race between a guy dressed up like nachos, another guy dressed up like a beer, and another guy dressed up as a bratwurst, all racing to the toilet guy standing at the end of the track?

CLR01
08-11-2005, 06:48 AM
Pretty much agree, however the best Anthem rendition I have heard in a LONG time was the trumpet solo at a half-price Monday game earlier this season. I think it was the JC blow-up game, but it was one hell of a performance. A professor at Columbia college I do believe.


I'll take Wayne Messmer any day of the week. I don't care if he is "the voice of the Cubs" he does a hell of a job with that song.

chisoxfan64
08-11-2005, 08:30 AM
I think they should play Whitney Houston`s singing of the National Anthem from Super Bowl xxv. Best rendition I ever heard.

TornLabrum
08-11-2005, 08:31 AM
God forbid if we could keep God and ever encroaching nationalism out of an entertainment event.

One thing about GBA is that in terms of nationalistic sentiment, it's quite the opposite. Rather than "I'm proud to be an American," jingoism, Berlin writes, "Stand beside her and guide her/Through the night with a light from above."

The song was published in 1938, and if anything was a response to the gathering storm in Europe as Hitler began making more and more outrageous demands on the French and British.

TornLabrum
08-11-2005, 08:45 AM
I absolutely love our national anthem, as I said upthread. I hate GBA because I'm not religious and I fundamentally disagree with the basic premise of the song. I can't say that about any other "patriotic" song (well, except that "God Bless the USA" song by Lee Greenwood) - including Toby Keith or whoever. God Bless America makes me very uncomfortable. The Star Spangled Banner makes me feel very patriotic - it's about sticking it out through a difficult fight and "our flag was still there". That's just my personal opinion. As for tradition, we sing the Star Spangled Banner as a moment to express our patriotism. With the exception of particularly difficult national moments - like the months after 9/11 - there is no reason to "add" any other patriotic songs. And for those periods, a moment of silence would be much more powerful.

Interesting comments. I can't say I disagree with you on everything except the last point. I think in times of national crisis, the addition of patriotic songs helps to reinforce the unity of this country at the time it is most needed.

GBA certainly helped to do this in the years preceding and following our entry into WWII. In fact, the song was so inspirational to that particular generation that there was a movement to replace The Star Spangled Banner with GBA as our national anthem. IIRC Berlin was against that idea.

My only problem with The Star Spangled Banner is that it is pretty difficult for the average person to sing. That's because the tune is and English drinking song To Anacreon in Heaven. It's the type of song an average person would attempt to sing while drunk because the range is far too great for most of us.

TornLabrum
08-11-2005, 08:48 AM
I'll take Wayne Messmer any day of the week. I don't care if he is "the voice of the Cubs" he does a hell of a job with that song.

Just remember, before he was with the Cubs, he was our field announcer. Yup...they ripped him off, too.

Hokiesox
08-11-2005, 09:35 AM
If you go to Josiah Chowning's pub in Colonial Williamsburg, the musicians will sing To Anacreon in Heaven (http://www.bcpl.net/%7Eetowner/anacreon.html) sometime during the dinner hour.

:tongue:

Funny you should mention. I always stop in Chowning's on my way through W-burg. My wife and I are both hisotrians and this is a great pub. We have Chowning's magnets on our refridgerator at home!

elrod
08-11-2005, 10:16 AM
One thing about GBA is that in terms of nationalistic sentiment, it's quite the opposite. Rather than "I'm proud to be an American," jingoism, Berlin writes, "Stand beside her and guide her/Through the night with a light from above."

The song was published in 1938, and if anything was a response to the gathering storm in Europe as Hitler began making more and more outrageous demands on the French and British.

I see what you're getting at, but on one level, GBA has a more pernicious message. The implication of God blessing America is that God does not bless other nations or people to the same degree. In other words, "God is on our side". Let's just say that America is not the only country to employ the Supreme Being in the service of nationalism. In fact, in my opinion at least, the greatest threat to our country comes not from atheistic cults like communism or fascism but from religious extremism. If America could differentiate herself from godless Nazism in the 1930s by seeking God's blessing, perhaps the message today in the face of religious extremism should be to celebrate our more "modern", secular traditions of liberty, democracy and equality - all of which religious extremists despise with the same vigor of atheistic totalitarians of yesteryear. That's just my opinion...

maurice
08-11-2005, 12:03 PM
The Nat'l Anthem before a baseball game is wonderful, classy, and traditional. It's also plenty. More is not always better.

StockdaleForVeep
08-11-2005, 02:59 PM
I saw that too, and I was wondering who else noticed it. It was rude of them to laugh, because the National Anthem is supposed to be a moment of silence, unless you are singing along. They are idiots, I'm with you on that. And it wouldn't have killed them to joke around after the Anthem.

When the PA starts it doesnt say "please observe a moment of silence for the national anthem" thats said for GBA

The announcer says "Now please rise, remove your cap for the playing of the national anthem"

Now some have said they was dead pin drop silence, does this mean im disgracing the song if i decide to sing along in pride?

StockdaleForVeep
08-11-2005, 02:59 PM
God forbid if we could keep God and ever encroaching nationalism out of an entertainment event.

Baseball is a business and as businessmen they have the right to do whatever they want during the game, so if they like god, they can promote him if they want. Dont like it? Dont watch baseball
Yes its also entertainment, so what about for the people who ENJOY GBA, the people who believe in God and such. They have a right to want to hear it just as much as you dont.

TornLabrum
08-11-2005, 05:02 PM
I see what you're getting at, but on one level, GBA has a more pernicious message. The implication of God blessing America is that God does not bless other nations or people to the same degree. In other words, "God is on our side". Let's just say that America is not the only country to employ the Supreme Being in the service of nationalism. In fact, in my opinion at least, the greatest threat to our country comes not from atheistic cults like communism or fascism but from religious extremism. If America could differentiate herself from godless Nazism in the 1930s by seeking God's blessing, perhaps the message today in the face of religious extremism should be to celebrate our more "modern", secular traditions of liberty, democracy and equality - all of which religious extremists despise with the same vigor of atheistic totalitarians of yesteryear. That's just my opinion...

And it's wrong!

Seriously there is no such implication that if God blesses one country he doesn't bless another. If you sneeze, and I say, "God bless you," I am not saying that God shouldn't bless someone else. I'll tell you what: Here is the verse. Tell me where it's implying any kind of nationalism or religious extremism:

While the storm clouds gather far across the sea,
Let us swear allegiance to a land that's free,
Let us all be grateful for a land so fair,
As we raise our voices in a solemn prayer:

The message is that Europe is going to hell in a handbasket (which it was), that the aggressors were not exactly freedom loving individuals (which they weren't), and that we should be grateful for the fact that we live in a country in which we have freedom.

It then asks for God's guidance in the chorus. It does not imply that God is on our side. It's more like asking God to help us do the right thing, whatever it may be.

When it came out in '38, it was interpreted by many as a plea for peace. American sentiment then was overwhelmingly isolationist.

After Pearl Harbor, it became a uniting influence, so much so that when Warner Bros. produced "This Is the Army," one of the first sequences is Kate Smith singing GBA, complete with verse (which doesn't appear on the original RCA Victor recording).

You have to look at the song in its historical context. BTW, most people in the United States claim to believe in God. Most are not extremists.

monkeypants
08-12-2005, 12:01 AM
Baseball is a business and as businessmen they have the right to do whatever they want during the game, so if they like god, they can promote him if they want. Dont like it? Dont watch baseball
Yes its also entertainment, so what about for the people who ENJOY GBA, the people who believe in God and such. They have a right to want to hear it just as much as you dont.

I agree with you 100%. But when will it stop? How about after the game we play America the Beautiful and then hum Battle Hymn of the Republic? And in the middle of the third inning lets all bow our heads and say a prayer. I know this is going to the extreme but what's the limit?
Can't we just play the Anthem before the game and then get down to some baseball?

StockdaleForVeep
08-12-2005, 12:12 AM
Pretty much agree, however the best Anthem rendition I have heard in a LONG time was the trumpet solo at a half-price Monday game earlier this season. I think it was the JC blow-up game, but it was one hell of a performance. A professor at Columbia college I do believe.

What about satchmo(joe satriani) and the playoff rendition for one of the san fran games?

StockdaleForVeep
08-12-2005, 12:13 AM
I agree with you 100%. But when will it stop? How about after the game we play America the Beautiful and then hum Battle Hymn of the Republic? And in the middle of the third inning lets all bow our heads and say a prayer. I know this is going to the extreme but what's the limit?
Can't we just play the Anthem before the game and then get down to some baseball?

Then do u also want an end to the 7th inning stretch\song?

monkeypants
08-12-2005, 01:51 AM
Then do u also want an end to the 7th inning stretch\song?
I wouldn't mind that at all. I also wouldn't mind getting rid of the National Anthem either. Both of these have been around for my whole lifetime so it would seem strange to suddenly not have them but on the other hand I wouldn't miss them if they were to go away.
I've been to soccer games in England, the Netherlands, and Germany, rugby games in New Zealand and Australia and Aussie Rules Football games in Australia and none of these sports or leagues play their home country's national anthem. What's the need to play the anthem or any other patriotic song during a sporting event? I just don't see the connection.

BridgePortNative
08-12-2005, 01:57 AM
Was anyone else disgusted when Jeter and A-Rod were conversing and laughing while the National Anthem was being played before tonights game?

I used to was think these were decent guys, but now they really disgust me. Couple of jackasses in my opinion.

Here's the thing, everybody listen here.very important NOBODY I mean NOBODY is supposed to say a WORD while the anthem is sung/played, It annoys me to hear so many people cheer around the Rocket Reds Glare, Bombs Burting in Air and so forth after that, it is respectful for civilians to give silent modest respect..... not blabberings and cheering when playing it:angry:

StockdaleForVeep
08-12-2005, 01:57 AM
I wouldn't mind that at all. I also wouldn't mind getting rid of the National Anthem either. Both of these have been around for my whole lifetime so it would seem strange to suddenly not have them but on the other hand I wouldn't miss them if they were to go away.
I've been to soccer games in England, the Netherlands, and Germany, rugby games in New Zealand and Australia and Aussie Rules Football games in Australia and none of these sports or leagues play their home country's national anthem. What's the need to play the anthem or any other patriotic song during a sporting event? I just don't see the connection.

Those fans are also screaming every moment of the games, and in some instances hurl deadly objects and cause riots. You dont see fans start fights over the canadian anthem and the usa anthem in mlb games.

Soccer fans have a diff mindset than pretty much fans in the rest of the world. Its a diff sport and mentality and cannot be compared to the acts done during or before baseball

Also, do you then object to the country's anthem during the olympics? Hell im sure nations could save alot of money on sound rigging if they got rid of anthems in olympics

elrod
08-12-2005, 02:14 AM
And it's wrong!

Seriously there is no such implication that if God blesses one country he doesn't bless another. If you sneeze, and I say, "God bless you," I am not saying that God shouldn't bless someone else. I'll tell you what: Here is the verse. Tell me where it's implying any kind of nationalism or religious extremism:

While the storm clouds gather far across the sea,
Let us swear allegiance to a land that's free,
Let us all be grateful for a land so fair,
As we raise our voices in a solemn prayer:

The message is that Europe is going to hell in a handbasket (which it was), that the aggressors were not exactly freedom loving individuals (which they weren't), and that we should be grateful for the fact that we live in a country in which we have freedom.

It then asks for God's guidance in the chorus. It does not imply that God is on our side. It's more like asking God to help us do the right thing, whatever it may be.

When it came out in '38, it was interpreted by many as a plea for peace. American sentiment then was overwhelmingly isolationist.

After Pearl Harbor, it became a uniting influence, so much so that when Warner Bros. produced "This Is the Army," one of the first sequences is Kate Smith singing GBA, complete with verse (which doesn't appear on the original RCA Victor recording).

You have to look at the song in its historical context. BTW, most people in the United States claim to believe in God. Most are not extremists.

I did not know about the other verse, so I concede that GBA was an appropriate song in the context of 1938. What I didn't like was the re-emergence of it after 9/11 - especially as we were attacked by religious extremists. Note that the verse you cited is not sung anymore (just as the other verses of Star Spangled Banner aren't sung either). I'm not calling for "This Land is Your Land" to be the National Anthem either, here (even though I absolutely love Woody Guthrie). I fully recognize that I'm a minority when it comes to religion (I'm Jewish, for one, and a non-practicing one at that - which makes me fairly typical for Jews, I suppose. In many ways my story is like Irving Berlin's. I married a Catholic too!) And, of course, most Americans are not religious extremists, even if most Americans are religious. But that's not really the point. This isn't about American Christian fundamentalists, really, or Dobson or any of those people. It's about Al Qaeda, which has tapped into a virulently anti-modern ethos whose primary goal is to destroy all influence of the Enlightenment in the Muslim world - and beyond. We should be celebrating the principles of the Enlightenment. I understand that most patriotic songs invoke God to some extent. Certainly Battle Hymn of the Republic (which I love, for some reason even though it's the most militantly religious of all), America the Beautiful, etc. have religious references in them. Perhaps my problem with GBA is the title itself - and not the song, which is actually quite bland. Maybe if it was a better song - like Battle Hymn - I could overlook the association of God with nation, which I will always find troubling. I still think that a moment of silence would have been more powerful after 9/11 so people could think, reflect, pray or whatever - silence in a crowded stadium is very moving. Songs - even moving ones - get very routine and lose their emotional appeal if sung every day.

TornLabrum
08-12-2005, 08:40 AM
I did not know about the other verse, so I concede that GBA was an appropriate song in the context of 1938. What I didn't like was the re-emergence of it after 9/11 - especially as we were attacked by religious extremists. Note that the verse you cited is not sung anymore (just as the other verses of Star Spangled Banner aren't sung either). I'm not calling for "This Land is Your Land" to be the National Anthem either, here (even though I absolutely love Woody Guthrie). I fully recognize that I'm a minority when it comes to religion (I'm Jewish, for one, and a non-practicing one at that - which makes me fairly typical for Jews, I suppose. In many ways my story is like Irving Berlin's. I married a Catholic too!) And, of course, most Americans are not religious extremists, even if most Americans are religious. But that's not really the point. This isn't about American Christian fundamentalists, really, or Dobson or any of those people. It's about Al Qaeda, which has tapped into a virulently anti-modern ethos whose primary goal is to destroy all influence of the Enlightenment in the Muslim world - and beyond. We should be celebrating the principles of the Enlightenment. I understand that most patriotic songs invoke God to some extent. Certainly Battle Hymn of the Republic (which I love, for some reason even though it's the most militantly religious of all), America the Beautiful, etc. have religious references in them. Perhaps my problem with GBA is the title itself - and not the song, which is actually quite bland. Maybe if it was a better song - like Battle Hymn - I could overlook the association of God with nation, which I will always find troubling. I still think that a moment of silence would have been more powerful after 9/11 so people could think, reflect, pray or whatever - silence in a crowded stadium is very moving. Songs - even moving ones - get very routine and lose their emotional appeal if sung every day.

I tend to agree, and I'm glad that I might have had a bit of a hand in helping you to formulate your reasons for your objections. I think that it was a very emotional thing to see members of Congress singing GBA on the Capitol steps after the 9/11 attacks. It is now getting to seem too much like something we do just because we've been doing it.

Irving Berlin wrote popular songs, and GBA was a song originally intended for a show (Yip Yip Yaphank) put on by the army, so to me it sounds a lot like an inspirational show tune (think "You'll Never Walk Alone"). However, in the hands of a good singer it's a lot better than you make it out to be. I can't hear Kate Smith's recording of it without being moved (and that's without the verse). Of course that could be because I vaguely remember the pre-rock 'n' roll era of popular music.

Ol' No. 2
08-12-2005, 10:39 AM
I tend to agree, and I'm glad that I might have had a bit of a hand in helping you to formulate your reasons for your objections. I think that it was a very emotional thing to see members of Congress singing GBA on the Capitol steps after the 9/11 attacks. It is now getting to seem too much like something we do just because we've been doing it.

Irving Berlin wrote popular songs, and GBA was a song originally intended for a show (Yip Yip Yaphank) put on by the army, so to me it sounds a lot like an inspirational show tune (think "You'll Never Walk Alone"). However, in the hands of a good singer it's a lot better than you make it out to be. I can't hear Kate Smith's recording of it without being moved (and that's without the verse). Of course that could be because I vaguely remember the pre-rock 'n' roll era of popular music.Sorry, but Kate Smith's rendition is so overwrought it makes me ill. Different strokes...

TornLabrum
08-12-2005, 10:44 AM
Sorry, but Kate Smith's rendition is so overwrought it makes me ill. Different strokes...

Tell that to the Philadelphia Flyers who won the Stanley Cup in the '70s.

Paulwny
08-12-2005, 11:05 AM
I did a search but couldn't find any info.
FWIW,
Last year during a yankee broadcast one of their announcers mentioned that a manager (?) had complained to the league office about the "pariotic nature" of the 7th inning stretch in yankee stadium. He felt his pitcher stood around on the mound until it was over and then he could begin his warm-up pitches, the umpires then would rush the warm-up pitches so the game could resume. His feeling was that his pitcher(s) were being penalized.

PaulDrake
08-12-2005, 11:44 AM
Don't be a jack ass. He didn't say that, he said that he didn't like them laughing and joking through the anthem. I agree with him. It's a complete lack of respect. Yes, that's exactly what it is.

elrod
08-12-2005, 12:14 PM
I did a search but couldn't find any info.
FWIW,
Last year during a yankee broadcast one of their announcers mentioned that a manager (?) had complained to the league office about the "pariotic nature" of the 7th inning stretch in yankee stadium. He felt his pitcher stood around on the mound until it was over and then he could begin his warm-up pitches, the umpires then would rush the warm-up pitches so the game could resume. His feeling was that his pitcher(s) were being penalized.

Ron Gardenhire made that exact complaint too. He said opposing pitchers had to sit around for too long between innings. Of course Steinbrenner used it as an excuse to attack Gardenhire's patriotism.

monkeypants
08-12-2005, 12:15 PM
Those fans are also screaming every moment of the games, and in some instances hurl deadly objects and cause riots. You dont see fans start fights over the canadian anthem and the usa anthem in mlb games.

Soccer fans have a diff mindset than pretty much fans in the rest of the world. Its a diff sport and mentality and cannot be compared to the acts done during or before baseball

Also, do you then object to the country's anthem during the olympics? Hell im sure nations could save alot of money on sound rigging if they got rid of anthems in olympics
You're contrasting something that doesn't happen in MLB with something that doesn't happen in European soccer leagues? I also mentioned rugby and Aussie Rules Football games. None of those leagues play the national anthem. Plus, I also saw a cricket match in England which is very close in terms of fan mindset when compared to baseball fans and they did not play the anthem either.
And of course I don't object to the playing of a country's anthem during the Olympics because it is a competion between nations. There is a difference in a competition between nations and competion between clubs from a league that play in the same nation.

BRDSR
08-12-2005, 02:00 PM
are you one of the persons who think it is rude too cheer and clap during the anthem???

I went to a Naval Acadamy graduation a little over a year ago, and when the national anthem finished I was about to put my hands together and whistle like a sports-crazed lunatic but the entire stadium of 10,000 was absolutely quiet. I'm glad I didn't get my hands together because I would have looked like a complete jag. Since then I've more or less assumed that if there is "proper" conduct in regards to the anthem, that the Naval Acadamy would know it.

As far as ARod and Jeter go, I like Jeter, but I soured on ARod a long time ago just because of some of his on-field actions. He really grates on my nerves sometimes.

StockdaleForVeep
08-12-2005, 03:00 PM
You're contrasting something that doesn't happen in MLB with something that doesn't happen in European soccer leagues? I also mentioned rugby and Aussie Rules Football games. None of those leagues play the national anthem. Plus, I also saw a cricket match in England which is very close in terms of fan mindset when compared to baseball fans and they did not play the anthem either.
And of course I don't object to the playing of a country's anthem during the Olympics because it is a competion between nations. There is a difference in a competition between nations and competion between clubs from a league that play in the same nation.
So are you infering there is no national pride in european soccer when teams play?

kittle42
08-12-2005, 03:09 PM
So are you infering there is no national pride in european soccer when teams play?

You said "Those fans are also screaming every moment of the games, and in some instances hurl deadly objects and cause riots. You dont see fans start fights over the canadian anthem and the usa anthem in mlb games."

So were you inferring that this is a display of pride or that there was no display of pride at these games and they are different than American baseball?

monkeypants
08-13-2005, 02:18 AM
So are you infering there is no national pride in european soccer when teams play?
There's national pride when national teams play each other. For example England vs. Germany or Italy vs. Spain. In this case it is very similar to the Olympics. There is club pride when different league clubs play each other. For example Tottenham Hotspur vs. Arsenal in the English Premier League or Ajax vs. PSV Eindhoven in the Dutch league. In this case it is very similar to other American sports. Since these clubs have players not only from their home country but from all over the world there really isn't any nationalistic pride. The problem that we associate with soccer violence comes mainly from when different nations play each other. Take a huge soccer match that people have been waiting weeks for add nationalism plus alcohol and you get hooliganism and riots. Club matches, while still intense, are much more subdued when compared to national matches and lack patriotism or nationalism.