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View Full Version : Another name to consider: Raul Ibanez?


mdep524
08-09-2005, 11:37 AM
I keep going back and forth on this Griffey thing. There's a lot of risk (injury, high salary) and a high price to pay (Young, Rogo, etc.) on the guy, but he is Ken Griffey Jr. When Seattle was in town the other day I was thinking, what about Raul Ibanez instead?

Ibanez's current stat line: .293 avg, 15 hr, 64 rbi, 6 sb and a .360 obp.

He's 33, bats lefty, and his power numbers would likely go up away from Safeco and at the Cell, otherwise he is very comparable to Griffey stats-wise. I believe he is making $4.42 mil this year and is signed for the same price through '06. He has some injury history, like Griffey, but would cost significantly less in a trade. Clearing waivers might be an issue, but you never know- there's certainly a chance he could sneak through.

Also, FWIW, he has played a little 1B in his career. Could he help out with some DH/LF duties? What do you think?

The Dude
08-09-2005, 11:44 AM
I keep going back and forth on this Griffey thing. There's a lot of risk (injury, high salary) and a high price to pay (Young, Rogo, etc.) on the guy, but he is Ken Griffey Jr. When Seattle was in town the other day I was thinking, what about Raul Ibanez instead?

Ibanez's current stat line: .293 avg, 15 hr, 64 rbi, 6 sb and a .360 obp.

He's 33, bats lefty, and his power numbers would likely go up away from Safeco and at the Cell, otherwise he is very comparable to Griffey stats-wise. I believe he is making $4.42 mil this year and is signed for the same price through '06. He has some injury history, like Griffey, but would cost significantly less in a trade. Clearing waivers might be an issue, but you never know- there's certainly a chance he could sneak through.

Also, FWIW, he has played a little 1B in his career. Could he help out with some DH/LF duties? What do you think?

I think the whole clearing waivers would nix this. Other than that, I'd welcome him aboard.

JUribe1989
08-09-2005, 11:45 AM
Ibanez is the ideal pick up for this team. He has killed us in the past, and he is mainly a corner outfielder who offers a left-handed bat in the lineup. The only thing is, I think if the Mariners were going to trade him they would have done it at the trade deadline. I think the Mariners are going to start holding on to their consistent hitters. This guy is the most consistent hitter on their team besides Ichiro IMO. He also plays a pretty good outfield. The only real chance we, or any team have at him is if the Mariners decide that Chris Snelling is going to be their starting LF for years to come. I doubt he would make it all the way through waivers also.

Knucksie
08-09-2005, 11:51 AM
I keep going back and forth on this Griffey thing. There's a lot of risk (injury, high salary) and a high price to pay (Young, Rogo, etc.) on the guy, but he is Ken Griffey Jr. When Seattle was in town the other day I was thinking, what about Raul Ibanez instead?

Ibanez's current stat line: .293 avg, 15 hr, 64 rbi, 6 sb and a .360 obp.

He's 33, bats lefty, and his power numbers would likely go up away from Safeco and at the Cell, otherwise he is very comparable to Griffey stats-wise. I believe he is making $4.42 mil this year and is signed for the same price through '06. He has some injury history, like Griffey, but would cost significantly less in a trade. Clearing waivers might be an issue, but you never know- there's certainly a chance he could sneak through.

Also, FWIW, he has played a little 1B in his career. Could he help out with some DH/LF duties? What do you think?

I had the same thought about Ibanez. He is a grinder type that is never in the spotlight. Perfect for the Sox. However, I doubt he would clear waivers. Almost any team could take him. He's a pretty good bargain.

BTW, quit going back and forth on the Griffey thing. There is no Griffey thing!

Ol' No. 2
08-09-2005, 12:13 PM
As much as I'd like to see the Sox pick up another bat, I just don't see it happening. Nearly all the teams that are playoff contenders have the same need, so there's no way anyone we'd want would clear waivers. They're just going to have to go with what they have, plus whatever help they might get from the minors.

RowandKicksAss07
08-09-2005, 12:32 PM
Can i get a little info on the waiver deals please...Say Cincinnati puts Griffey on waivers, and say the Yankees offer a prospect or two or three, can Cincy turn down that deal and go to the next team in line? Or do they have to give Griffey to the first team that claims him? If they can just move on from offer to offer, I think the Sox have a decent chance of maybe getting Griffey because Cincy already knows what the Sox could offer (Young, Rogowski, another prospect) because they already had an offer on the table. So Cincy will be comparing other teams offers to the what the Sox already offered originally. The way I read the article concerning Griffey to Sox in the Sports Weekly thing was that the deal would have gone through but the owner didnt want to lose Griffey's popularity.

mdep524
08-09-2005, 12:37 PM
Can i get a little info on the waiver deals please...Say Cincinnati puts Griffey on waivers, and say the Yankees offer a prospect or two or three, can Cincy turn down that deal and go to the next team in line? Or do they have to give Griffey to the first team that claims him? No, they can only deal with the first team that claims him. If the Yankees claim him, they are the only team that can acquire him via a trade, though the Reds could decide not to trade him at all, even after the claim. The only way the Sox have a shot is if no other team in baseball claims him (the Sox are last in line) AND the Reds decide to deal him AND Reds ownership signs off on it AND Griffey agrees to come to the Sox. Long odds at this point.

If they can just move on from offer to offer, I think the Sox have a decent chance of maybe getting Griffey because Cincy already knows what the Sox could offer (Young, Rogowski, another prospect) because they already had an offer on the table. So Cincy will be comparing other teams offers to the what the Sox already offered originally. The way I read the article concerning Griffey to Sox in the Sports Weekly thing was that the deal would have gone through but the owner didnt want to lose Griffey's popularity. Yeah, there's a huge thread on that potential deal. The Reds, Griffey, and Griffey's agent have all denied it, so who knows what the truth is/was.

mdep524
08-17-2005, 11:14 AM
From Scott Merkin's column on whitesox.com:

Trade winds blowing? Ken Griffey Jr. reportedly does not fall as the only possible addition to the White Sox during the month of August, according to a Major League source. The White Sox also have interest in Seattle's Raul Ibanez, who would come at a slightly higher asking price, and Detroit's Dimitri Young, who could come in a slightly higher financial range.
If Young reaches 500 plate appearances in 2005, his 2006 contract vests at $8 million. The switch-hitting Young, who is batting .263 with 18 home runs and 57 RBIs, entered Tuesday with 426 appearances. I was as caught up in the Griffey rumor as anybody, but it's clear that Reds management is just too stubborn, short-sighted and plain stupid to interact with. If Ibanez has cleared waivers and is out there for the taking, I'm all for it!

Of course, Seattle is the same team that proposed Brandon McCarthy for Ron Villone...

Also, just have to say: NO Dmitri Young!

rowand33
08-17-2005, 12:45 PM
I'll take Ibanez.

he had a couple of 100 RBI seasons with KC, I think. Very solid player. can play 1B, the OF, and DH.

good player, fits our needs.

bottom line:

we need a bat. for the love of god, let's just get a bat. I don't care if somebody in house picks it up. I don't care if we trade for somebody. We just need somebody else on this team who can hit the ball.

Flight #24
08-17-2005, 12:47 PM
From Scott Merkin's column on whitesox.com:

I was as caught up in the Griffey rumor as anybody, but it's clear that Reds management is just too stubborn, short-sighted and plain stupid to interact with. If Ibanez has cleared waivers and is out there for the taking, I'm all for it!

Of course, Seattle is the same team that proposed Brandon McCarthy for Ron Villone...

Also, just have to say: NO Dmitri Young!

This may also be at least partially, a tactic to get the Reds to play ball. I.e. "We have other options, be it Brian Anderson, Raul Ibanez, etc. So take our offer or shove it".

Lip Man 1
08-17-2005, 12:54 PM
For what it's worth Levine said yesterday on Chicago Tribune Live that both Ibanez and Dmitri Young cleared waivers.

Lip

DickAllen72
08-17-2005, 06:35 PM
I'll take Ibanez.

he had a couple of 100 RBI seasons with KC, I think. Very solid player. can play 1B, the OF, and DH.

good player, fits our needs.

bottom line:

we need a bat. for the love of god, let's just get a bat. I don't care if somebody in house picks it up. I don't care if we trade for somebody. We just need somebody else on this team who can hit the ball.
Alright, but where is he gonna play?

HebrewHammer
08-17-2005, 11:16 PM
Carl Everett and Dmitri Young on the same team? Wouldn't that create a paradox?

buehrle4cy05
08-17-2005, 11:17 PM
Hank Blalock cleared waivers, you know...

NDSox12
08-17-2005, 11:26 PM
For what it's worth Levine said yesterday on Chicago Tribune Live that both Ibanez and Dmitri Young cleared waivers.

Lip

I think I would rather have Ibanez because he is a much better alternative defensively. Young is a solid hitter, but not too smooth with the glove.

SomebodyToldMe
08-17-2005, 11:28 PM
Alright, but where is he gonna play?

DAMN! You beat me to it!

JUribe1989
08-17-2005, 11:32 PM
I actually think Dmitri Young is the guy we need. I heard rumors that we were pursuing him during the deadline and that he has cleared waivers now. He is a clutch hitter with medium power. He also is very familiar with the AL Central pitching staffs we will see during the rest of the season. I also believe we need a mental boost, our team seems pretty dead right now and Young is a pretty excitable guy.

IowaSox1971
08-18-2005, 12:52 AM
Ibanez probably would be a better guy for us to get than Griffey. Ibanez is a lefty hitter, he knows the American League pitchers and his contract is not as expensive as Griffey's. Plus, if we get Ibanez, it probably would be easier to do the rotation thing that enables guys like Everett and Rowand to still get a lot of at-bats during a given week. I'm not sure how receptive Griffey would be to that. Ibanez is not a superstar, but he still puts up good numbers year after year, so he might be a better fit for us.

I would rather not have Dmitri Young, because he's not having a very good year and we should avoid giving Detroit a bunch of young prospects.

Flight #24
08-19-2005, 11:02 AM
Not a great option, and has a $10M contract for next year, but Phil Nevin's supposedly also available. He's put up mid-800s OPSs in a pretty big pitcher park, has some flexibility (OF, 1B, C), and could provide another slugger. I would imagine he'll come cheap as well, and he'll almost certainly pass through waivers. Also, in relation to Griffey, his deal's only through '06. And just last year, he posted a .289BA/.368OBP.

The bad - Acquiring him involves a much bigger cost (unless you send a decent prospect over and get the Rangers to eat some salary). He's also a slow, RH hitter. And he's having a pretty horrendous year including a .640 OPS since going to a hitters park in Texas. Barring a decent payroll hike, he could signal bye bye to Paulie (althoug he would also provide a replacement, albiet at likely the same salary).

He's more of a run-producer than Ibanez, but his salary's higher. However,if the reports on what Seattle wanted pre-deadline are true, he'll come a lot cheaper than any of the M's players.

mdep524
08-19-2005, 11:13 AM
Not a great option, and has a $10M contract for next year, but Phil Nevin's supposedly also available. He's put up mid-800s OPSs in a pretty big pitcher park, has some flexibility (OF, 1B, C), and could provide another slugger. I would imagine he'll come cheap as well, and he'll almost certainly pass through waivers. Also, in relation to Griffey, his deal's only through '06. And just last year, he posted a .289BA/.368OBP.

The bad - Acquiring him involves a much bigger cost (unless you send a decent prospect over and get the Rangers to eat some salary). He's also a slow, RH hitter. And he's having a pretty horrendous year including a .640 OPS since going to a hitters park in Texas. Barring a decent payroll hike, he could signal bye bye to Paulie (althoug he would also provide a replacement, albiet at likely the same salary).

He's more of a run-producer than Ibanez, but his salary's higher. However,if the reports on what Seattle wanted pre-deadline are true, he'll come a lot cheaper than any of the M's players. Ehh, no thanks. I'll pass on Nevin for most of the reasons you mention. Plus, I don't buy into him being a bigger run producer than Ibanez anyway.

JUribe1989
08-19-2005, 11:32 PM
I don't think any of us want to watch this team blow this lead. It would be too much hell. They should give lopsided prospect deals just to get Ibanez. A lefthanded bat who hits .295. We are desperate now.

Lip Man 1
08-20-2005, 12:06 AM
It takes two to tango. Unless Williams absolutely overspends and blows anyone else's offer off the table, teams don't have to give the Sox anything.

This doesn't absolve Williams completely however. The top G.M.'s find someway, somehow, to convince the other team to deal. That hasn't happened yet.

Lip

samram
08-20-2005, 12:10 AM
It takes two to tango. Unless Williams absolutely overspends and blows anyone else's offer off the table, teams don't have to give the Sox anything.

This doesn't absolve Williams completely however. The top G.M.'s find someway, somehow, to convince the other team to deal. That hasn't happened yet.

Lip

Well, no one has really convinced anyone to deal. It's just one of those years in which 1) no one wants to admit they're out of the race (which is fine- I can't blame a team for trying to compete), 2) they're too stupid to realize that holding onto their players is actually not good for them (Reds, Mariners, Devil Rays, Pirates).

Lip Man 1
08-20-2005, 12:17 AM
Samran:

Then it's up to the best G.M.'s to 'convince' the stupid teams they need to deal isn't it?

Lip

samram
08-20-2005, 12:20 AM
Samran:

Then it's up to the best G.M.'s to 'convince' the stupid teams they need to deal isn't it?

Lip

Ok, well, then I guess there are no best GMs, since nothing has really happened.

I'm interested to see if this offseason is more active than the last few since there were so few in-season trades.

shoota
08-20-2005, 03:17 AM
Ibanez probably would be a better guy for us to get than Griffey. Ibanez is a lefty hitter, he knows the American League pitchers and his contract is not as expensive as Griffey's. Plus, if we get Ibanez, it probably would be easier to do the rotation thing that enables guys like Everett and Rowand to still get a lot of at-bats during a given week. I'm not sure how receptive Griffey would be to that. Ibanez is not a superstar, but he still puts up good numbers year after year, so he might be a better fit for us.

I would rather not have Dmitri Young, because he's not having a very good year and we should avoid giving Detroit a bunch of young prospects.

I strongly agree. Good points on pluses over Griffey being contract price and putting him wherever we want (DH, etc.) I also think it would be a bad idea to give prospects to an improving intradivision Tigers team for Dmitri Young.

Ibanez or Sweeney would do just fine for my tastes. Griffey and Young would not.

Man Soo Lee
08-20-2005, 03:33 AM
I'm interested to see if this offseason is more active than the last few since there were so few in-season trades.

I think there will be more trading this winter for the same reason that nothing happened at the deadline: the free agent class sucks.

harwar
08-20-2005, 07:27 AM
I have been hoping that we might aquire Tony Clark(315 ave,21 hr,63 rbi) who is a switch-hitting 1st base-dh type,from the dbacks who are 4 out of the division race and 8.5 in the wildcard race,but it ain't gonna happen.
Someone(KW?) did claim him on waivers but the dbacks pulled him back.

Flight #24
08-20-2005, 08:30 AM
I have been hoping that we might aquire Tony Clark(315 ave,21 hr,63 rbi) who is a switch-hitting 1st base-dh type,from the dbacks who are 4 out of the division race and 8.5 in the wildcard race,but it ain't gonna happen.
Someone(KW?) did claim him on waivers but the dbacks pulled him back.

DBacks ain't trading Clark, they just resigned him to an extension. Too bad too, He would have been a great fit either now or as a backup/cheaper replacement for Paulie in the offseason. (NOTE: Not advocating not resigning Paulie).

Lip Man 1
08-20-2005, 10:39 AM
Clark really seems to have gotten his career back on track in Arizona. Amazing.

Lip

mdep524
08-20-2005, 11:17 AM
Samran:

Then it's up to the best G.M.'s to 'convince' the stupid teams they need to deal isn't it?

Lip Lip, there's only so much a GM can do to convince another GM to deal. KW is one of the more aggressive GMs in the biz, I'm sure he is currently trying every possible angle of every possible trade to make it work out for the Sox, just as he did before July 31.

If the other GMs either won't trade or have ridiculously unreasonable demands, there's really nothing he can do.

Flight #24
08-20-2005, 11:32 AM
Lip, there's only so much a GM can do to convince another GM to deal. KW is one of the more aggressive GMs in the biz, I'm sure he is currently trying every possible angle of every possible trade to make it work out for the Sox, just as he did before July 31.

If the other GMs either won't trade or have ridiculously unreasonable demands, there's really nothing he can do.

except give in. something I think he will do if necessary by giving up anyone not on the major league club. If a guy can be had, he will be. The good news is that I believe Anderson & Mccarthy will be safe for no other reason than I believe they'd have to clear waivers to be traded, something that is highly unlikely.

mdep524
08-20-2005, 11:43 AM
except give in. something I think he will do if necessary by giving up anyone not on the major league club. If a guy can be had, he will be. The good news is that I believe Anderson & Mccarthy will be safe for no other reason than I believe they'd have to clear waivers to be traded, something that is highly unlikely. I cringe whenever I read this. I'm all for going for it all this year, damn the torpedoes, etc. But I don't like setting a precedent of just "giving in" whenever another team has unreasonable demands in trade negotiations.

Besides, it's the Sox that should have all the leverage here: they have the best record in the majors (until yesterday anyway... still the best in the AL), a deep farm system, and financial flexibility. Why is it that all month (and last month as well), it is the Sox who reek of desperation on the trade front?

Flight #24
08-20-2005, 11:58 AM
I cringe whenever I read this. I'm all for going for it all this year, damn the torpedoes, etc. But I don't like setting a precedent of just "giving in" whenever another team has unreasonable demands in trade negotiations.

Besides, it's the Sox that should have all the leverage here: they have the best record in the majors (until yesterday anyway... still the best in the AL), a deep farm system, and financial flexibility. Why is it that all month (and last month as well), it is the Sox who reek of desperation on the trade front?

Because it is the Sox who are extremely close to a WS appearance. If they were just close to the playoffs, I wouldn't say to do it. But with the best pitching in the majors, a pretty good bullpen, and a pretty bad offense, this is as close to a "sure thing" as it gets. Also, unfortunately, the trade market is not that great this year, and Griffey is head & shoulders above anyone else possibly available.

Plus, this isn't your usual deadline rental. If you keep McCarthy & Anderson, you're in pretty good shape for next year and the year after. You have a stud prospect pitcher to plug in, you have your OF/DH (Griffey), and you have an excellent rookie OF as well.

Taking Griffey's whole deal means adding $6mil in '06-08. That basically replaces Carl+Timo with Griffey+Anderson. That means you can keep this team together for next year, then the year after you have McCarthy available to replace one of the Cubans and you're left looking for a #5 starter (or resigning a Cuban). So trading the farm doesn't kill you for at least 2-3 years, by which point hopefully we have a title.

All of these, plus knowing the way KW's talked about WS chances and his "1917" comments make me think that it'll happen if the Reds are willing at all to trade Griffey. Otherwise, something lesser will happen (Nevin, Ibanez, etc.)