PDA

View Full Version : Gammons on the White Sox


Fenway
08-08-2005, 01:42 PM
Gammons was babbing on WEEI this morning and he was saying the White Sox can really make a statement this week in New York and Boston. His biggest concern for them is the danger of being flat in the playoffs much like the 1983 team but thinks Ozzie will not make the same mistakes that LaRussa did.

He was asked why the White Sox were never included with the Cubs and Red Sox has hard luck teams and he said it is because the White Sox never had a signature collapse in the post season. He pointed out the last time the White Sox played a game that could win a post season series was in 1917 and they haven't won a home playoff game since 1959.

He stressed that the White Sox HAVE to win the first game of the ALDS or they will start hearing about past White Sox early exits. He also said "if they do win that first game, they should win the AL playoffs."

fquaye149
08-08-2005, 01:45 PM
Gammons was babbing on WEEI this morning and he was saying the White Sox can really make a statement this week in New York and Boston. His biggest concern for them is the danger of being flat in the playoffs much like the 1983 team but thinks Ozzie will not make the same mistakes that LaRussa did.

He was asked why the White Sox were never included with the Cubs and Red Sox has hard luck teams and he said it is because the White Sox never had a signature collapse in the post season. He pointed out the last time the White Sox played a game that could win a post season series was in 1917 and they haven't won a home playoff game since 1959.

He stressed that the White Sox HAVE to win the first game of the ALDS or they will start hearing about past White Sox early exits. He also said "if they do win that first game, they should win the AL playoffs."

yeah - we were flat in 83 and we still could have won that series if it weren't for a couple things going wrong (hold2dibber, help me out on this one).

And this team is comparable to the 83 team, if not better. I tihnk we'll be just fine.

Good God, and bringing up us not winning a playoff series or home playoff game in x number of years as if that has anything to do with this team right now. ESPN and their stuperstition.

Fake Chet Lemon
08-08-2005, 01:46 PM
Overall he's pretty accurate, BUT- the Cubs got plenty of air play LONG BEFORE the 2003 collapse. But he is correct, for the Sox to get on the national radar they have to make noise in the postseason one of these decades. We may as well start this year.

cleanwsox
08-08-2005, 01:46 PM
He also said "if they do win that first game, they should win the AL playoffs."

:boston = :cleo

TheOldRoman
08-08-2005, 01:48 PM
Good comments by Boston, although we don't need to make any statements. We are the best team in baseball, hands down. We will make statements come October 3.

As for his comments on the "signature collapse", they are actually very true. I would normally expect a mediot to say "because they have no fans, they play in the ghetto, nobody comes to the park because people get shot there, they threw a world series, etc..." Props to Boston for getting it right.

FanofBill
08-08-2005, 01:52 PM
Good comments by Boston, although we don't need to make any statements. We are the best team in baseball, hands down. We will make statements come October 3.

As for his comments on the "signature collapse", they are actually very true. I would normally expect a mediot to say "because they have no fans, they play in the ghetto, nobody comes to the park because people get shot there, they threw a world series, etc..." Props to Boston for getting it right.

Do you mean Gammons ? or Gammons=Boston ?

Fenway
08-08-2005, 01:52 PM
Overall he's pretty accurate, BUT- the Cubs got plenty of air play LONG BEFORE the 2003 collapse. But he is correct, for the Sox to get on the national radar they have to make noise in the postseason one of these decades. We may as well start this year.

The Cubs have now played SIX games in the NLCS that one win and they in the Series.

Boston had their own trainload of near misses.

But.......the Red Sox finally got passed it and so can the White Sox.

BTW the last time the Red Sox were defending champs, the White Sox won the pennant.

voodoochile
08-08-2005, 01:58 PM
Do you mean Gammons ? or Gammons=Boston ?

Gammons is regularly referred to as Boston around these parts because of his love for all things Red Sox...

Chisox003
08-08-2005, 02:01 PM
BTW the last time the Red Sox were defending champs, the White Sox won the pennant.

I posted this back in March or April, adding also that the Hockey league (May or may not have been refferred to as NHL back then...) also had a lockout that following winter after the Sawx won it all

I got torn apart for looking into that stuff, but I thought it was awesome....

Stroker Ace
08-08-2005, 02:02 PM
As for his comments on the "signature collapse", they are actually very true. I would normally expect a mediot to say "because they have no fans, they play in the ghetto, nobody comes to the park because people get shot there, they threw a world series, etc..." Props to Boston for getting it right.People get shot outside of Comiskey?!?!

Fenway
08-08-2005, 02:03 PM
I really think the ALCS will be an all Sox affair.

and I will root for the Sox win the World Series :smile:

voodoochile
08-08-2005, 02:04 PM
People get shot outside of Comiskey?!?!

Careful now... the Cubune is reading...

Hello Knueman...

1951Campbell
08-08-2005, 02:04 PM
As for his comments on the "signature collapse", they are actually very true.

I'll second that. "Signature collapse" is a very good term for what made the Cubs and Red Sox famous as far as teams in a championship drought go.

ChicagoHoosier
08-08-2005, 02:05 PM
Thanks for posting the recap Fenway! I actually agree with a lot of what Gammons said, as much as it pains me to agree with him. That Game 1 will be huge!

Of course, after I state anything like that, I like to keep myself in check and state we still haven't won anything yet and are not in the playoffs, so looking forward to see what El Duque has got tonight.

Hangar18
08-08-2005, 02:07 PM
Gammons was babbing on WEEI this morning and he was saying the White Sox can really make a statement this week in New York and Boston. His biggest concern for them is the danger of being flat in the playoffs much like the 1983 team but thinks Ozzie will not make the same mistakes that LaRussa did.

He was asked why the White Sox were never included with the Cubs and Red Sox has hard luck teams and he said it is because the White Sox never had a signature collapse in the post season. He pointed out the last time the White Sox played a game that could win a post season series was in 1917 and they haven't won a home playoff game since 1959.

He stressed that the White Sox HAVE to win the first game of the ALDS or they will start hearing about past White Sox early exits. He also said "if they do win that first game, they should win the AL playoffs."

HOLY SMOKE. This sounds like a well-thought out, concise, and lucid answer. Hes almost right about everything here. Better than being completely wrong as is usually the case when it comes to the White Sox.

Fenway
08-08-2005, 02:08 PM
I'll second that. "Signature collapse" is a very good term for what made the Cubs and Red Sox famous as far as teams in a championship drought go.

and some almost killed me

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:7cMwlGj5-dUJ:msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/041025/041025_buckner_hmed_12p.hmedium.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/041025/041025_buckner_hmed_12p.hmedium.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6323070/&h=273&w=353&sz=15&tbnid=7cMwlGj5-dUJ:&tbnh=89&tbnw=116&hl=en&start=4&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbill%2Bbuckner%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den %26lr%3D)http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:OhoC-kq_ywQJ:cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2004/11/17/1100706940_0707.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2004/11/17/1100706940_0707.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/gallery/121404_pedro_through_the_years%3Fpg%3D15&h=375&w=500&sz=48&tbnid=OhoC-kq_ywQJ:&tbnh=95&tbnw=127&hl=en&start=4&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgrady%2Band%2Bpedro%26svnum%3D10%26hl %3Den%26lr%3D)http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:WvkfXaq4Y0AJ:www.allposters.com/IMAGES/PHO/AAFF033.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.allposters.com/IMAGES/PHO/AAFF033.jpg&imgrefurl=http://posters.shoppingsavvy.com/Bucky-Dent---1978-Playoff-Home-Run---Photofile.html&h=280&w=350&sz=35&tbnid=WvkfXaq4Y0AJ:&tbnh=92&tbnw=116&hl=en&start=15&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbucky%2Bdent%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%2 6lr%3D)http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:uyZhUdZtFW4J:i.cnn.net/si/2003/baseball/mlb/specials/postseason/2003/10/14/marlins.cubs.game6.ap/t1_aloufan_all.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://i.cnn.net/si/2003/baseball/mlb/specials/postseason/2003/10/14/marlins.cubs.game6.ap/t1_aloufan_all.jpg&imgrefurl=http://chicagosheri.blogspot.com/2003_10_01_chicagosheri_archive.html&h=400&w=300&sz=30&tbnid=uyZhUdZtFW4J:&tbnh=120&tbnw=90&hl=en&start=7&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcubs%2Bgame%2B6%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3De n%26lr%3D)

TheOldRoman
08-08-2005, 02:08 PM
People get shot outside of Comiskey?!?!
No, and it is also much less dangerous than Wrigley Field, but don't expect a Chicago news expose on it!

:giangreco
"Are you kidding? I am working on an empty blue seat tribute. We will talk about the history of the blue seats, the fact that they are always empty, and that the Cubs ALWAYS sell out. We will address such issues as "why would they build a ballpark in the ghetto" and ""Does Chicago hate the Sox, or do people only stay home because they fear for their lives?".

Tekijawa
08-08-2005, 02:08 PM
He also said "if they do win that first game, they should win the AL playoffs."

This sounds like one of Bud Seligs hair brained ideas!

BigEdWalsh
08-08-2005, 02:15 PM
:boston = :cleo


:boston =:cleo =:whoflungpoo

jackbrohamer
08-08-2005, 02:18 PM
He stressed that the White Sox HAVE to win the first game of the ALDS or they will start hearing about past White Sox early exits

Yah hearing negative things in the media has hurt the Sox badly this year.

I have to believe the team's a bit more mentally tough than Gammons gives them credit for.

infohawk
08-08-2005, 02:21 PM
Overall he's pretty accurate, BUT- the Cubs got plenty of air play LONG BEFORE the 2003 collapse. But he is correct, for the Sox to get on the national radar they have to make noise in the postseason one of these decades. We may as well start this year.

The Cubs collapsed in 1984 after jumping out to a 2-0 advantage in a best of 5 series against the Padres. Also, we can't use the word "collapse" without a reference to the 1969 Cubs.

1951Campbell
08-08-2005, 02:27 PM
and some almost killed me

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:7cMwlGj5-dUJ:msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/041025/041025_buckner_hmed_12p.hmedium.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/041025/041025_buckner_hmed_12p.hmedium.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6323070/&h=273&w=353&sz=15&tbnid=7cMwlGj5-dUJ:&tbnh=89&tbnw=116&hl=en&start=4&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbill%2Bbuckner%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den %26lr%3D)http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:OhoC-kq_ywQJ:cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2004/11/17/1100706940_0707.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2004/11/17/1100706940_0707.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/gallery/121404_pedro_through_the_years%3Fpg%3D15&h=375&w=500&sz=48&tbnid=OhoC-kq_ywQJ:&tbnh=95&tbnw=127&hl=en&start=4&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgrady%2Band%2Bpedro%26svnum%3D10%26hl %3Den%26lr%3D)http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:WvkfXaq4Y0AJ:www.allposters.com/IMAGES/PHO/AAFF033.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.allposters.com/IMAGES/PHO/AAFF033.jpg&imgrefurl=http://posters.shoppingsavvy.com/Bucky-Dent---1978-Playoff-Home-Run---Photofile.html&h=280&w=350&sz=35&tbnid=WvkfXaq4Y0AJ:&tbnh=92&tbnw=116&hl=en&start=15&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbucky%2Bdent%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%2 6lr%3D)http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:uyZhUdZtFW4J:i.cnn.net/si/2003/baseball/mlb/specials/postseason/2003/10/14/marlins.cubs.game6.ap/t1_aloufan_all.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://i.cnn.net/si/2003/baseball/mlb/specials/postseason/2003/10/14/marlins.cubs.game6.ap/t1_aloufan_all.jpg&imgrefurl=http://chicagosheri.blogspot.com/2003_10_01_chicagosheri_archive.html&h=400&w=300&sz=30&tbnid=uyZhUdZtFW4J:&tbnh=120&tbnw=90&hl=en&start=7&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcubs%2Bgame%2B6%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3De n%26lr%3D)

And strangely, Game 6 of the '75 World Series seems so fondly looked upon by Bostonians that you would think the Red Sox actually won that Series.

eriqjaffe
08-08-2005, 02:29 PM
People get shot outside of Comiskey?!?!If by "outside of" you mean "8.1 miles north of", then yes. ;)

DaleJRFan
08-08-2005, 02:33 PM
I remember quaking in my boots last year watching Shingo try to pitch around ManRam and Ortiz with two men on...

as long as this guy gets to work in the 9th inning, its over.

http://www.lucidnoir.com/pictures/hermie.jpg

MisterB
08-08-2005, 02:33 PM
People get shot outside of Comiskey?!?!

Well, since nobody has ever been shot inside Comiskey, then by definition everybody who gets shot gets shot outside Comiskey...:D:

Iwritecode
08-08-2005, 02:36 PM
I really think the ALCS will be an all Sox affair.

and I will root for the Sox win the World Series :smile:

That's nice of you Fenway. So how do you think Boston will do this year?

:)

Fenway
08-08-2005, 02:37 PM
And strangely, Game 6 of the '75 World Series seems so fondly looked upon by Bostonians that you would think the Red Sox actually won that Series.

Game 6 of the 75 World Series may have been the greatest Series GAME ever

"Fisk swings...long drive to left field, if it stays fair...home run!! The Red Sox win!!" -- Ned Martin, Oct. 21, 1975

Optipessimism
08-08-2005, 03:00 PM
Good comments by Boston, although we don't need to make any statements. We are the best team in baseball, hands down. We will make statements come October 3.

As for his comments on the "signature collapse", they are actually very true. I would normally expect a mediot to say "because they have no fans, they play in the ghetto, nobody comes to the park because people get shot there, they threw a world series, etc..." Props to Boston for getting it right.

Don't forget that all Sox fans are rabid mullet-headed rednecks ****ing off at the thought of hopping a fence to attack an opposing team's coach.

1951Campbell
08-08-2005, 03:07 PM
Game 6 of the 75 World Series may have been the greatest Series GAME ever

I dunno, Jack Morris and the '91 Twins might have something to say about that.

32nd&Wallace
08-08-2005, 03:13 PM
Game 6 of the 75 World Series may have been the greatest Series GAME ever

"Fisk swings...long drive to left field, if it stays fair...home run!! The Red Sox win!!" -- Ned Martin, Oct. 21, 1975 I think that game has to be the most overrated game in the history of sports. The REd Sox eventually lost that series, so that home run means nothing

Frater Perdurabo
08-08-2005, 03:19 PM
Well, since nobody has ever been shot inside Comiskey, then by definition everybody who gets shot gets shot outside Comiskey...:D:

Until the Sox host a free flu shot clinic in the Fundamentals area, that is!

Tribune headline when that happens -

"Scores of kids hurt, moms upset at Sox-sponsored shootings at the Cell"

OR

"Youngest Sox fans hooked on the needle"

:)

EastCoastSoxFan
08-08-2005, 03:23 PM
The Cubs have now played SIX games in the NLCS that one win and they in the Series.

Boston had their own trainload of near misses.

But.......the Red Sox finally got passed it and so can the White Sox.

BTW the last time the Red Sox were defending champs, the White Sox won the pennant.
The last TWO times the Red Sox were defending champs (before last year, that is), the White Sox won the pennant...

mterraza
08-08-2005, 03:27 PM
Who the hell is peter gammons? Another turd from ESPN baseball tonight? And who gave them permission to talk about OUR White Sox?

I guess them talkn' about those lame ass yanks and red sox and that OVERHYPED rivalry must have finally gottin to their ratings!

jdm2662
08-08-2005, 03:34 PM
I dunno, Jack Morris and the '91 Twins might have something to say about that.

I concur. That is the only non-White Sox game I will ever watch on ESPN Classic. That was also the only series I watched with interest.

Fenway
08-08-2005, 06:02 PM
I dunno, Jack Morris and the '91 Twins might have something to say about that.

However I can make a stronger case that Game 5 of the 2004 ALCS was the greatest post season game ever.

PicktoCLick72
08-08-2005, 06:28 PM
Originally Posted by mterraza
Who the hell is peter gammons? Another turd from ESPN baseball tonight? And who gave them permission to talk about OUR White Sox?

I guess them talkn' about those lame ass yanks and red sox and that OVERHYPED rivalry must have finally gottin to their ratings!

Mekon, is that you?

Fenway
08-08-2005, 06:28 PM
It is a shame that more people know Gammons now for TV, when he was the Red Sox beat writer he could write...

from Dan Shaugnessy

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2005/07/30/with_gammons_hall_makes_the_write_call/?page=full

Gammons has done more to influence the way major league baseball is covered than any columnist or beat guy of the last half-century. He is, and forever will be, the de facto commissioner of baseball. He is to our craft what Ted Williams was to his: When Gammons walks through a press box, any scribe who knows history should point and say, ''There goes the greatest baseball writer who ever lived."
Hyperbole? Maybe. Men named Ring Lardner, Grantland Rice, Damon Runyon, Red Smith, Dick Young, and Harold Kaese certainly established a standard of excellence and served as role models for generations of baseball writers. But Gammons, who started at the Globe June 10, 1968, changed everything about baseball coverage and his innovations and style spawned a legion of like-minded writers who bring you the game stories and notes today. They are Gammons Youth, even though some of them might have never read him.

The shame is that Gammons today is most famous as a television analyst and commentator for ESPN. He writes for ESPN's websites and ESPN The Magazine, and you can find him in Baseball America, but most young baseball fans know him solely for his TV work. That would be like knowing the late Joe DiMaggio only as a pitchman for Mr. Coffee, or knowing Bob Cousy only as a color analyst on Celtics broadcasts.

Get any summer month between 1972 and 1986 (skip '76 and '77, when Gammons went to Sports Illustrated for the first time) and start reading Gammons's daily game coverage. You won't be able to stop.
Gammons was at the top of his game when the Red Sox were at the top of their game. His lead from Game 6, 1975 (Carlton Fisk walkoff game), is the Boston baseball equivalent of Rice's ''Four Horsemen" story about the 1924 Notre Dame backfield (Outlined against a blue, gray October sky . . . "). After Fisk hit the homer, Gammons typed eight pages in 15 minutes, starting with, ''And all of a sudden the ball was there, like the Mystic River Bridge, suspended out in the black of morning."

Days later, after the Red Sox were defeated in Game 7, Gammons wrote, ''We have postponed autumn long enough now. There are storm windows to put in, wood to chop for the whistling months ahead. The floorboards are getting awfully cold in the morning, the cider sweet. Where Lynn dove and El Tiante stood will be frozen soon, and while it is now 43 years for Thomas A. Yawkey and 57 for New England, the fugue that was the 1975 baseball season will play in our heads until next we meet at the Fens again."

Wow. Just reading that paragraph makes the hair on my arms stand up. No one writes like that in the sports pages anymore and as good as he is on the plasma TV, it is a tremendous loss that Gammons now delivers his stories on television. At the top of his newspaper game, Gammons scorned TV guys as ''barking dogs and frauds." Alas, he ultimately joined them and our readers are poorer for it.

jehosaphat
08-08-2005, 06:36 PM
I really think the ALCS will be an all Sox affair.

and I will root for the Sox win the World Series :smile:

I hope the Red Sox beat Oakland. It seems as if the As have been as hot in the past 50 games as the Sox were in the first 50. Surely they'll cool off.

Can you think of anything more uninteresting and depressing than an As v. Houston WS?

Jurr
08-08-2005, 06:39 PM
Overall he's pretty accurate, BUT- the Cubs got plenty of air play LONG BEFORE the 2003 collapse. But he is correct, for the Sox to get on the national radar they have to make noise in the postseason one of these decades. We may as well start this year.
You need to remember one name. Leon Durham. Things were happening a while ago.

soxwon
08-08-2005, 07:45 PM
Overall he's pretty accurate, BUT- the Cubs got plenty of air play LONG BEFORE the 2003 collapse. But he is correct, for the Sox to get on the national radar they have to make noise in the postseason one of these decades. We may as well start this year.

im a believer that if the sox dont win it all this year, the season is a failure.
because i dont think the sox will EVER get this oppurtunity again for a very long long time.
to lead from start to finnish- nah wont happen again.
this has been a MIRACLE season.
i hate to say it but
this is it
WIN it this year or maybe never again.
who agrees?

soxwon
08-08-2005, 07:48 PM
i do believe we will win it.
i know we will.

despite what the media says.

i also believe winning the world series, for chicago
will be bigger than the bears super bowl, and the first bulls title.
it should be considered the greatest moment in chicago sports history.

Trav
08-08-2005, 08:51 PM
Gammons is 100% right at the moment even though I fully expect the White Sox to surprise everyone and do well in the playoffs. The best thing about the team is that next year they should be able to play the same ball, with the same intensity and with the results that they have had thus far. The only thing that will disappoint me is if they don't get to the playoffs this year and if they don't advance further next year than they do this year.

soxwon
08-08-2005, 09:04 PM
Gammons is 100% right at the moment even though I fully expect the White Sox to surprise everyone and do well in the playoffs. The best thing about the team is that next year they should be able to play the same ball, with the same intensity and with the results that they have had thus far. The only thing that will disappoint me is if they don't get to the playoffs this year and if they don't advance further next year than they do this year.

Not make the playoffs- we are a sure thing.
you cant go any further than winning the world series!!!

you mean there are people that think we will not win the world series
i mean doubters?

who is totally convinced its ours?- i am!~!!!

kitekrazy
08-08-2005, 10:33 PM
Gammons was babbing on WEEI this morning and he was saying the White Sox can really make a statement this week in New York and Boston.


I agree. Keep in mind also these teams have more playoff experience than the players on the Sox. This may be a factor in Oct.

elrod
08-08-2005, 10:43 PM
One of the best writers today is Barry Svrluga of the Washington Post. He covers the Nationals with a verve you never see among sports writers.

BTW, Gammons is absolutely right here. The White Sox haven't had a spectacular post-season (or late season) flop like the 1969, 1984 or 2003 Cubs, or the 1946 or 1978 Red Sox. We need to win that Game One and set the whole post-season moving in the right direction. I'd love a 1-0 game, the way we started both halves of the season!

batmanZoSo
08-08-2005, 11:50 PM
One of the best writers today is Barry Svrluga of the Washington Post. He covers the Nationals with a verve you never see among sports writers.

BTW, Gammons is absolutely right here. The White Sox haven't had a spectacular post-season (or late season) flop like the 1969, 1984 or 2003 Cubs, or the 1946 or 1978 Red Sox. We need to win that Game One and set the whole post-season moving in the right direction. I'd love a 1-0 game, the way we started both halves of the season!

We don't even come close is the problem.

elrod
08-08-2005, 11:54 PM
We don't even come close is the problem.

That's right. Even when we went six in 1993, we lost the first two at home right away. We took the first game on the road in 1983 but then did nothing. Even in 1959, after blowing out the Dodgers in Game One, the Sox fell apart for three games before winning a stunner in Game Five and getting crushed in Game Six. Fact is, the White Sox haven't been close to winning a post-season series since 1919.