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View Full Version : Joe Borchard?... No...they couldn't...they wouldn't!


Madvora
08-05-2005, 07:26 AM
General manager Ken Williams plans to scout some of the Sox's minor-league teams next week. It will be the first time Williams will see Charlotte outfielder and former No. 1 pick Joe Borchard since late April. Borchard has raised his batting average from .163 on May 6 to .252 with 20 home runs and 50 RBIs. "He wants to be here and has the ability," Williams said.
This is from today's Tribune.
Now, if Carl Everett happens to be a little more hurt than we think and has to go on the DL for a short time, the Sox wouldn't dare bring up Joe Borchard, would they?
The pieces are seeming to fall in place though. We're currenlty without a DH and Borchard's contract is up at the end of the year. It would make sense for KW to showcase him.

Everett will probably just be out 2 or 3 games like we were originally told, but the idea of this happening is scaring the hell out of me.

ChiFabulous1
08-05-2005, 07:35 AM
Didn't you hear, the white sox need a new peanut vendor.

anewman35
08-05-2005, 08:02 AM
This is from today's Tribune.
Now, if Carl Everett happens to be a little more hurt than we think and has to go on the DL for a short time, the Sox wouldn't dare bring up Joe Borchard, would they?
The pieces are seeming to fall in place though. We're currenlty without a DH and Borchard's contract is up at the end of the year. It would make sense for KW to showcase him.

Everett will probably just be out 2 or 3 games like we were originally told, but the idea of this happening is scaring the hell out of me.

At this point, what would it hurt, exactly? I mean, keep Borchard far away from the playoff roster, but it's not like a few weeks of Borchard at DH is going to lose this lead.

wdelaney72
08-05-2005, 08:05 AM
At this point, what would it hurt, exactly? I mean, keep Borchard far away from the playoff roster, but it's not like a few weeks of Borchard at DH is going to lose this lead.

I'd rather have Ross Gload.

Madvora
08-05-2005, 08:14 AM
At this point, what would it hurt, exactly? I mean, keep Borchard far away from the playoff roster, but it's not like a few weeks of Borchard at DH is going to lose this lead.
You're right, it won't hurt our playoff chances, but it would just be so depressing to have a guy who absolutely sucks on this team again. Obviously, this is all unlikely, but even the thought of it makes my skin crawl.

mike squires
08-05-2005, 08:18 AM
Ii would love to give Joe another shot and I've always pulled for him. With the huge lead we've got I don't think it would hurt one bit. He's obviously worked hard to get that average up. What if he gets up here and rips the cover off the ball?

pinwheels3530
08-05-2005, 08:20 AM
Kenny is probably just talking highly of Borchard to set things up for a possible trade.

Madvora
08-05-2005, 08:22 AM
Kenny is probably just talking highly of Borchard to set things up for a possible trade.100% accurate, that's why I think he'd be up here if Carl went on the DL or something...
Now that I think of it, he would probably not let him up here because he'd most likely kill his value again.

DumpJerry
08-05-2005, 08:23 AM
:bundy
Kenny, put down that bong and step away slowly...........

Rooney4Prez56
08-05-2005, 08:25 AM
This is from today's Tribune.
Now, if Carl Everett happens to be a little more hurt than we think and has to go on the DL for a short time, the Sox wouldn't dare bring up Joe Borchard, would they?
The pieces are seeming to fall in place though. We're currenlty without a DH and Borchard's contract is up at the end of the year. It would make sense for KW to showcase him.

Everett will probably just be out 2 or 3 games like we were originally told, but the idea of this happening is scaring the hell out of me.



This is where I dive in front of the slow-moving bullet to the Sox's heart.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! I remember what Borchard did last year. I don't care how much power he has, he won't bat higher than .175. I'll take Konerko at DH and Gload at first. Just no BORCHARD!!

kevingrt
08-05-2005, 09:01 AM
Joe Borchard would haveto be last, last resort at DH if somehow Everett had to find his way to the DL. So many more other worthy candidates that could come up from Triple AAA or waivers or something. But think if he came up at hit like .275 with a couple dingers and actually showed something. That would be a pretty interesting and funny scenario.

Madvora
08-05-2005, 09:09 AM
Joe Borchard would haveto be last, last resort at DH if somehow Everett had to find his way to the DL. So many more other worthy candidates that could come up from Triple AAA or waivers or something. But think if he came up at hit like .275 with a couple dingers and actually showed something. That would be a pretty interesting and funny scenario.
That would be good for the short term, but I'd be more pissed about it if it gave another glimmer of hope to KW. They have to fianally get it through their heads that this guy sucks and has no future. We're so damn close.

Tragg
08-05-2005, 09:53 AM
From the at-bats I saw last year (which admittedly weren't many), Joe just swung at everything, paticularly balls in the dirt.
If he has developed at least some plate discipline, there may be hope.

Randar68
08-05-2005, 10:22 AM
From the at-bats I saw last year (which admittedly weren't many), Joe just swung at everything, paticularly balls in the dirt.
If he has developed at least some plate discipline, there may be hope.

Frankly, I had restored hopes for him after spring training. His swing was noticeably shorter and it seemed to be reflected in his performance...

Then the AAA season started and he couldn't hit a beachball. I didn't know what to think at that point. I still don't, and I don't know why they wouldn't bring Anderson up instead (other than having to send him down if Carl returns before Septeber 1st)...

However, the animosity he seems to draw is pretty childish. This guy has given everything he's had and has sufferred over his struggles far more than anyone on this board. He's an emotional guy with a lot of pride and takes his failures far too hard (a weakness when it comes to baseball)...

If he comes up, root for him to do well. It's in the best-interest of everyone involved, no?

The Dude
08-05-2005, 10:28 AM
This is from today's Tribune.
Now, if Carl Everett happens to be a little more hurt than we think and has to go on the DL for a short time, the Sox wouldn't dare bring up Joe Borchard, would they?
The pieces are seeming to fall in place though. We're currenlty without a DH and Borchard's contract is up at the end of the year. It would make sense for KW to showcase him.

Everett will probably just be out 2 or 3 games like we were originally told, but the idea of this happening is scaring the hell out of me.

The only way I'd want Borchard up is if he was taking the place of Timo. I know they both suck, but at least Borchard provides some power instead of that whole lot of nothing that Timo brings to the team.

wdelaney72
08-05-2005, 10:31 AM
The interestig note on LTP is that this is the final year of his contract. He's set to walk at the end of the season.

The animosity comes from the fact that this guy was drafted high, given $5 million and has contributed ZERO to the major league club. Yes, this is more of an indictment on Schueler and Kenny for their poor scouting of him, but that's just the way it goes. He's collecting the check, so he's gonna take the heat.

Madvora
08-05-2005, 10:31 AM
Does anyone know the minimum number of days you can go on the DL for? Is there any less than the 15 day DL?

anewman35
08-05-2005, 10:36 AM
Does anyone know the minimum number of days you can go on the DL for? Is there any less than the 15 day DL?

15 (unless you do it retroactively, but you have to not play at least 15 straight days).

He gone
08-05-2005, 10:36 AM
Ii would love to give Joe another shot and I've always pulled for him
Me too........

Joe's #s are comparable to Carl's (even though their against AAA pitchers) 20 HRs, 50 RBIs, 16 2Bs, .259 avg. Carl's batting .259, has 16HRs, and 63 RBI's.

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/2084/0706051000fl.jpg

TornLabrum
08-05-2005, 10:38 AM
15 (unless you do it retroactively, but you have to not play at least 15 straight days).

And to add to that, there are two DLs. The other is the 60 day DL which isn't used very often, usually when a player is out for the year.

Ol' No. 2
08-05-2005, 10:39 AM
Frankly, I had restored hopes for him after spring training. His swing was noticeably shorter and it seemed to be reflected in his performance...

Then the AAA season started and he couldn't hit a beachball. I didn't know what to think at that point. I still don't, and I don't know why they wouldn't bring Anderson up instead (other than having to send him down if Carl returns before Septeber 1st)...

However, the animosity he seems to draw is pretty childish. This guy has given everything he's had and has sufferred over his struggles far more than anyone on this board. He's an emotional guy with a lot of pride and takes his failures far too hard (a weakness when it comes to baseball)...

If he comes up, root for him to do well. It's in the best-interest of everyone involved, no?You can add a number of other players to this list. I can't for the life of me understand people almost celebrating when their favorite whipping boy fails.

Ol' No. 2
08-05-2005, 10:41 AM
The interestig note on LTP is that this is the final year of his contract. He's set to walk at the end of the season.

The animosity comes from the fact that this guy was drafted high, given $5 million and has contributed ZERO to the major league club. Yes, this is more of an indictment on Schueler and Kenny for their poor scouting of him, but that's just the way it goes. He's collecting the check, so he's gonna take the heat.Not quite. He's not a FA and he can't "walk". He is, however, out of options after 2005, which is a different situation.

TornLabrum
08-05-2005, 10:44 AM
You can add a number of other players to this list. I can't for the life of me understand people almost celebrating when their favorite whipping boy fails.

My idea of a fan is someone who at least hopes everyone on the team plays well and wishes them well in so trying. That's how I approach fandom. The only time in which I feel differently is if the player turns out to be an absolute jerk or a cheat.

I could never bring myself to be a fan of Sammy Sosa after the rum bottle incident and hoped that he would be traded. Ditto Wil Cordero with the telephone.

wdelaney72
08-05-2005, 10:47 AM
Not quite. He's not a FA and he can't "walk". He is, however, out of options after 2005, which is a different situation.

Thanks for clarifying.

I agree about the animosity. He's been frustrating to watch, but the only players that deserve animosity are those who cheat and those who dog-it.

Tragg
08-05-2005, 11:06 AM
However, the animosity he seems to draw is pretty childish. This guy has given everything he's had and has sufferred over his struggles far more than anyone on this board. He's an emotional guy with a lot of pride and takes his failures far too hard (a weakness when it comes to baseball)...

If he comes up, root for him to do well. It's in the best-interest of everyone involved, no?
I think he's an interesting choice to bring up, and I'd like to see him at the plate again.
And we have to make a decision on him soon - for the investment the Sox made, one more look-see in the majors makes some sense. If the circumstances were different, we may not have the luxury of that - but we're pretty safe in the standings right now.

I agree with you-ragging him is ridiculous.

fquaye149
08-05-2005, 11:06 AM
:bundy
Kenny, put down that bong and step away slowly...........

it boggles my mind how many championship-GM caliber people we have posting on this board.

Randar68
08-05-2005, 11:18 AM
The animosity comes from the fact that this guy was drafted high, given $5 million and has contributed ZERO to the major league club. Yes, this is more of an indictment on Schueler and Kenny for their poor scouting of him, but that's just the way it goes. He's collecting the check, so he's gonna take the heat.

He was a consensus steal by all of baseball when the Sox landed him and were able to sign him. It was those bonus demands that dropped him from a top 5 pick. Your explaination is the exact petty foolishness and jealousy that I said was the definition of stupidity in my original post in this thread.

Revisionist history is mightily convenient now, huh?:rolleyes:

Flight #24
08-05-2005, 11:19 AM
I'm lost on what the downside is here. Remember, absent Carl, the alternative here is Ross Gload or Timo Perez or Geoff Blum (barring a trade).

Is replacing one of those offensively with Joe Borchard going to cost us games....not significantly, and since we're not exactly struggling to make the playoffs, even if it does cost us 1-2 games in a week or 2 (Carl's likely max DL period), that's not a big deal.

Meanwhile, if Joe can actually translate his decent AAA #s to the bigs this time around, you stand to gain a ton in terms of trade value or the extreme longshot that he actually becomes a solid player.

Worst case scenario, he sucks like he did last year. You don't lose anything because of the playoff position we're in already and because his trade value's already near zero.

Podzilla_40
08-05-2005, 11:21 AM
There's no hurt in bringing him up and batting him 7th. Aaron could pick up the slack considering Carl hasn't exactly been tearing up the 3 hole.

Tragg
08-05-2005, 11:30 AM
I'm lost on what the downside is here. Remember, absent Carl, the alternative here is Ross Gload or Timo Perez or Geoff Blum (barring a trade).


Yep

ChiSoxPatF
08-05-2005, 11:42 AM
[QUOTE=Flight #24]I'm lost on what the downside is here. Remember, absent Carl, the alternative here is Ross Gload or Timo Perez or Geoff Blum (barring a trade). [QUOTE]

I'm not anti-Borchard in anyway, if he comes up then by all means give him a shot at making a difference but I still disagree with the move.

Why not bring up Anderson instead? It would give you depth in the OF since he's stellar defensively and may give Pod some more time to rest his legs by having Scotty DH. He is the future of this franchise, right? He's the guy everyone puts so much stock in and he was untouchable in trades, right? Give him a shot! Its a playoff run and he would be getting regular playing time so why not get his feet wet a bit?

I want Borchard to succeed but as you can tell from this board most people in this franchise have written him off. He maybe better suited going to another team and getting a change of scenery. Meanwhile, call up your best prospect!

fquaye149
08-05-2005, 11:47 AM
[QUOTE=Flight #24]I'm lost on what the downside is here. Remember, absent Carl, the alternative here is Ross Gload or Timo Perez or Geoff Blum (barring a trade). [QUOTE]

I'm not anti-Borchard in anyway, if he comes up then by all means give him a shot at making a difference but I still disagree with the move.

Why not bring up Anderson instead? It would give you depth in the OF since he's stellar defensively and may give Pod some more time to rest his legs by having Scotty DH. He is the future of this franchise, right? He's the guy everyone puts so much stock in and he was untouchable in trades, right? Give him a shot! Its a playoff run and he would be getting regular playing time so why not get his feet wet a bit?

I want Borchard to succeed but as you can tell from this board most people in this franchise have written him off. He maybe better suited going to another team and getting a change of scenery. Meanwhile, call up your best prospect!

Don't know if Anderson's ready. Bringing him up too early could be detrimental to our top position prospect. Not to mention hurt his potential trade value if we wanted to land, say, overbay or a solid pitcher in the offseason.

Risk
08-05-2005, 11:48 AM
I think that based on the totality of the circumstances of this season (being 16 up on the Twinks, having on otherwise mediocre hitting bench, and possibly sitting Crazy Carl until he's 100% for the stretch run and playoffs), I don't see a reason not to bring up LTP. Even though a lot of people (including myself) have been disappointed with his performance in the past, I don't think that he has been a detriment to the team. Yes, me made an obscene amount of money in his signing bonus. Yes, he has underperformed at the major league level. Yes, (according to Randar and others), he seems to be too hard on himself when he screws up.

However, I think that even though all of these failures, one of the things he has shown me, at least in this year, is persistence. When he got canned from the Mexican league b/f the start of Spring Training, and when he started off hitting in the .160's in Charlotte, I was ready to write him off. But since then he has improved to at least respectable numbers.

Why not give him one more shot? If he sucks, then he won't be in the Sox's future. If he plays well, he'll help us win games, and then it's decision time.

Risk

He gone
08-05-2005, 11:58 AM
Why not bring up Anderson instead? It would give you depth in the OF since he's stellar defensively

Joe is not a bad outfielder defensively. He has 2 errors this season, Brian has 3.

http://img316.imageshack.us/img316/6016/joe0rx.jpg

PaulDrake
08-05-2005, 12:15 PM
I'd rather have Ross Gload. I'd rather have McKay Christiansen.

DaleJRFan
08-05-2005, 12:21 PM
I'm a big Gload fan and one of those happy-go-lucky "man, I wish Borchard would prove me wrong" Sox fan, but I don't waste my time with either of these guys. Bring up Anderson and see what the kid can do. What is the risk? Why wait until September to call him up?

Ol' No. 2
08-05-2005, 12:22 PM
Borchard will be up in September, anyway. He's not going to be on the playoff roster, so what's the rush? Until then, what are the team's needs? What is Carl's status? As I said in another thread, unless his groin strain is VERY mild, I'd put him on the DL for 15 days and give it a good rest. Meanwhile, bring up Gload and let Pauly DH half the time. He could use a rest, too.

Fake Chet Lemon
08-05-2005, 12:32 PM
We have a huge lead, what's the big deal with giving Borchard one last shot for 10-12 days? There is no down side because if he sucks, we'll probably never have to see him again. So it's a win-win no matter what he does. Kenny won't sleep at night until he gets SOME value for the $5.3M sack of crap.

wdelaney72
08-05-2005, 12:35 PM
He was a consensus steal by all of baseball when the Sox landed him and were able to sign him. It was those bonus demands that dropped him from a top 5 pick. Your explaination is the exact petty foolishness and jealousy that I said was the definition of stupidity in my original post in this thread.

Revisionist history is mightily convenient now, huh?:rolleyes:

I think you are missing my point. I'm simply stating why I think people are hard on LTP. I'm not trying to be a Monday morning GM. I fully understand some first round picks are gonna bust.

I'm not anti-Borchard, I just would rather see Gload in the lineup. He's had more success at the big league level.

Wanne
08-05-2005, 01:09 PM
Somebody edify me about this. Doesn't a player have a certain number of options to how many times he can be called up. Is it his entire career with that team or during a season? Is this a concern for Borchard?

Ol' No. 2
08-05-2005, 01:15 PM
Somebody edify me about this. Doesn't a player have a certain number of options to how many times he can be called up. Is it his entire career with that team or during a season? Is this a concern for Borchard?There isn't a limit on the number of times. The limit is the number of years in which a player may be optioned. Borchard is in his third and last option year.

Realist
08-05-2005, 01:50 PM
So basically he came out of the gate this year hitting like Dye was at the beginning of the season and now he's basically hitting like Dye is now?

We have a fourteen game lead for first place. There's no way anybody can question Borchard's heart. I've never met the man but I hear he's an incredibly nice guy. I'm a big fan of nice guys. What the hell... give him a shot. If we see a dramatic improvement in his hitting from what we've seen in the past there may be no stopping this team. If we don't see the dramatic improvement, the "Joe Borchard" question will be answered.

sbinsc
08-05-2005, 02:11 PM
I really think Gload deserves another shot. He needs some steady playing time to get his timing back. He is tearing it up down here. (I live around charlotte, and have seen him play with the Knights quite a bit). I sure hope that there is nothing between Ross and management that is being held against him.

Brian26
08-05-2005, 03:52 PM
You're right, it won't hurt our playoff chances, but it would just be so depressing to have a guy who absolutely sucks on this team again. Obviously, this is all unlikely, but even the thought of it makes my skin crawl.

Man, I just can't believe Ozzie would let Borch play on this team again after the inuendo from the end of last year ("Give me baseball players, not athletes or 'potential' guys")

Hagan
08-05-2005, 05:05 PM
that would not make much sense if we brought up joe. Brian anderson is tearing it up in AAA and would much more likely be called up. Joe is just a C prospect right now. I would rather them bring up norton Roosevelt brown before joe.

CYGarland20
08-05-2005, 05:19 PM
Gload please!!!! :cool:

OG4LIFE
08-06-2005, 02:21 AM
The only way I'd want Borchard up is if he was taking the place of Timo. I know they both suck, but at least Borchard provides some power instead of that whole lot of nothing that Timo brings to the team.

are you kidding? how many game tying or go-ahead RBI's has borchard brought in vs timo?

timo can at least do everything the game asks- play defense (he won't hurt you), get clutch hits, run the bases well, lay down a good bunt. borchard? he's got a great arm and occasionally hits big home runs.

lastly, compare the major league career that timo has had, next to the major league career borchard has had, and there is no question who the better player is, period.

Erik The Red
08-06-2005, 02:40 AM
Borchard = :chunks

gosox41
08-06-2005, 08:00 AM
This is from today's Tribune.
Now, if Carl Everett happens to be a little more hurt than we think and has to go on the DL for a short time, the Sox wouldn't dare bring up Joe Borchard, would they?
The pieces are seeming to fall in place though. We're currenlty without a DH and Borchard's contract is up at the end of the year. It would make sense for KW to showcase him.

Everett will probably just be out 2 or 3 games like we were originally told, but the idea of this happening is scaring the hell out of me.

Why not bring up Gload?


Bob

kitekrazy
08-06-2005, 09:35 AM
I guess this is the final test for Joe whether they keep him in the organization or not. That's the only reason why I can see them bringing him up.

It's not like last year where they said, "Joe we're going to bring you up to replace Maggs." Like any guy from the minors could actually replace Maggs.

Maybe it will be different with less pressure.

oldcomiskey
08-06-2005, 09:39 AM
I can rememeber a time not too long ago that everybody was excited about LTP---now everybody is excited alright---about trading him

Tragg
08-06-2005, 11:04 AM
I didn't realize that Joe's almost 28 as well.
Hope it works out for him.

He gone
08-06-2005, 12:49 PM
If you consider 26 almost 28 then I guess Joe's almost 28 :?:

All the time and money the Sox have spent on him, I think one more look would be justified. It's not like we are in a tight race.

Full Name: Joseph Edward Borchard
Born: 11/25/1978
Birthplace: Panorama City, CA
Height: 6'5" Weight: 220
Bats: Switch
Throws: Right
College: Stanford
MLB Debut: 09/02/2002
http://img349.imageshack.us/img349/4095/ph4000216dd.jpg

Tragg
08-06-2005, 01:26 PM
If you consider 26 almost 28 then I guess Joe's almost 28

So I can't add. Almost 27 - still getting up there for a non-"organizational minor leaguer" minor leaguer.

JermaineDye05
08-06-2005, 01:46 PM
how bout calling up Casey Rogowski instead of borchard if carl is more hurt then we thought, Casey's been having a good year, .315 8 homers and 62 rbis

kevingrt
08-06-2005, 01:51 PM
I guess this is the final test for Joe whether they keep him in the organization or not. That's the only reason why I can see them bringing him up.

It's not like last year where they said, "Joe we're going to bring you up to replace Maggs." Like any guy from the minors could actually replace Maggs.

Maybe it will be different with less pressure.

Hopefully all our other outfield prospects don't go to the wayside like Borchard. I don't want to see Brian Anderson and guys anyone else screw up their career that badly.

Hopefully, Borchard put his signing bonus money into like the money market or something. I hope he doesn't become a bum. No but wait he graduated from Stanford, no hard feelings then

rowand33
08-06-2005, 02:58 PM
here's a stat that worries me about Joe B...

120 Ks/36 BB in 381 ABs...

yikes.

The power numbers look good though. If he comes up, let's just pray he's got it together this time.

(I'd almost rather not see Anderson up for fear that he sucks like Borchard did when he came up. at the very least, I'd like Anderson to retain his trade value. Imagine how much better of a bargaining chip Borchard could have been if not for last september)