PDA

View Full Version : Viz over Marte?


Bisco Stu
08-04-2005, 11:00 PM
Marte's 4 blown saves and rising ERA concern me, while Viz has shown some pride and poise and is pitching better as of late. Yeah, I guess I'll stick with Marte overall, but today's game may be a microcosm of a trend. We'll see.

SOXfnNlansing
08-04-2005, 11:05 PM
vizz the fizz sucks!

Chisox003
08-04-2005, 11:09 PM
vizz the fizz sucks!

Woof.

Great point, Soxfn, I loved how you backed your opinion with valid points, and that Vizz the Fizz nickname never gets old on this board!

Please :rolleyes:

Give me Vizcaino at this point. Marte can be lights out, but for some reason he loses call control at the worst possible times. Hell, it can be 6-0 Sox in the 8th inning and Marte will come in and start walking hitters....Just throw strikes Damaso!!!

Vizcaino worked out a of big jam today, too (set up by Marte, if you recall...)

Ol' No. 2
08-04-2005, 11:15 PM
Oh goody. Another tallest midget contest.

SoxSpeed22
08-04-2005, 11:36 PM
Oh goody. Another tallest midget contest.Sums this thread up nicely.
BTW, they talked on CLTV about Marte being a piece for the Griffey trade, if he's the only major league player, then I'd be in favor of it, because we can always get another lefty offa waivers that walks less people.

SOXfnNlansing
08-04-2005, 11:42 PM
Woof.

Great point, Soxfn, I loved how you backed your opinion with valid points, and that Vizz the Fizz nickname never gets old on this board!

Please :rolleyes:

Give me Vizcaino at this point. Marte can be lights out, but for some reason he loses call control at the worst possible times. Hell, it can be 6-0 Sox in the 8th inning and Marte will come in and start walking hitters....Just throw strikes Damaso!!!

Vizcaino worked out a of big jam today, too (set up by Marte, if you recall...)vizz the fizz
april 10 times pitched 13.1ip 11 er 6bb 17 hits
may 9 times pitched 10.1ip 6 er 3 hr 5 bb 12 hits
june 9 times pitched 12.0ip 3 er 2 hr 6 bb 13 hits
july 15 times pitched 2 er 1 hr 6 bb 15 hits
.279 ba against
pitching w/2 outs 16.2 ip 19 hits 10er 5.40 era 10 bb 1 hr
I can't find a stat that tells inherited runners allowed to score but I know he leads the team in that stat. He sucks!
you know with 2 outs he is pitching with men on base that don't show up in his era.......... see cotts and marte's era for vizz the fizz's ineptness.

chaerulez
08-05-2005, 12:35 AM
Vizcano has been doing decent, but I still say Marte is more of a go to guy than he is. I just don't want to hear that we'd be better of with Shingo and his 6 ERA and batting practice tosses than Vizcano.

The Wimperoo
08-05-2005, 06:02 AM
vizz the fizz
april 10 times pitched 13.1ip 11 er 6bb 17 hits
may 9 times pitched 10.1ip 6 er 3 hr 5 bb 12 hits
june 9 times pitched 12.0ip 3 er 2 hr 6 bb 13 hits
july 15 times pitched 2 er 1 hr 6 bb 15 hits
.279 ba against
pitching w/2 outs 16.2 ip 19 hits 10er 5.40 era 10 bb 1 hr
I can't find a stat that tells inherited runners allowed to score but I know he leads the team in that stat. He sucks!
you know with 2 outs he is pitching with men on base that don't show up in his era.......... see cotts and marte's era for vizz the fizz's ineptness.
[/list]

Viz is 11 of 37 in allowing inherited runners to score: 29.7%
Marte is 9 of 24 in allowing inherited runners to score: 37.5%

ChicagoHoosier
08-05-2005, 08:41 AM
Oh goody. Another tallest midget contest.

Yep, it's another "flavor of the week" thread. Which reliever sucks more this week? It'll keep changing the rest of the year. Just wait until Jenks gives up four runs in a five-run game and we almost lose.

SoxFanTillDeath
08-05-2005, 08:50 AM
vizz the fizz april 10 times pitched 13.1ip 11 er 6bb 17 hits may 9 times pitched 10.1ip 6 er 3 hr 5 bb 12 hits june 9 times pitched 12.0ip 3 er 2 hr 6 bb 13 hits july 15 times pitched 2 er 1 hr 6 bb 15 hits .279 ba against pitching w/2 outs 16.2 ip 19 hits 10er 5.40 era 10 bb 1 hr I can't find a stat that tells inherited runners allowed to score but I know he leads the team in that stat. He sucks! you know with 2 outs he is pitching with men on base that don't show up in his era.......... see cotts and marte's era for vizz the fizz's ineptness.

Viz is 11 of 37 in allowing inherited runners to score: 29.7%
Marte is 9 of 24 in allowing inherited runners to score: 37.5%

I Hate Facts... :rolleyes:

elrod
08-05-2005, 08:57 AM
Viz was an everyday man in Milwaukee. When he doesn't get a lot of work in, he sucks. When he throws regularly, his slider has some real bite and he gets guys out. I wouldn't object to Viz throwing more in the next few games.

A_ROW33
08-05-2005, 08:58 AM
Oh goody. Another tallest midget contest.
:DJ "uh-oh"

kevingrt
08-05-2005, 08:58 AM
Yep, it's another "flavor of the week" thread. Which reliever sucks more this week? It'll keep changing the rest of the year. Just wait until Jenks gives up four runs in a five-run game and we almost lose.

So true... a "what have you done for me lately post" once again.

Fake Chet Lemon
08-05-2005, 03:24 PM
Why isn't Neil Cotts the 8th-9th inning lefty anyway? Marte should be the 6th-7th inning lefty.

nedlug
08-05-2005, 03:27 PM
because we can always get another lefty offa waivers that walks less people.

Like who? What good LH reliever will be on waivers when we're able to get him?

MsSoxVixen22
08-05-2005, 03:32 PM
I never thought I'd say this but Viz. Get rid of Marte-he's done. I don't think he'll be as good as he was a couple years ago.

Ol' No. 2
08-05-2005, 03:37 PM
I never thought I'd say this but Viz. Get rid of Marte-he's done. I don't think he'll be as good as he was a couple years ago.And replace him with who?

SoxSpeed22
08-05-2005, 03:38 PM
Like who? What good LH reliever will be on waivers when we're able to get him?These guys come to mind.
Scott Eyre
Kent Mercker
Jeremy Affeldt
BJ Ryan

Ol' No. 2
08-05-2005, 03:40 PM
These guys come to mind.
Scott Eyre
Kent Mercker
Jeremy Affeldt
BJ RyanEyre and Mercker are both in the NL. Every other team would have to pass on them. No chance. Affeldt isn't going to clear waivers, either.

Chips
08-05-2005, 03:45 PM
These guys come to mind.
Scott Eyre
Kent Mercker
Jeremy Affeldt
BJ Ryan

If BJ Ryan went to waivers, there is no way we would stand a chance of getting him. The Yankees have picked up every other available pitcher, and I'm sure they pick him up also.

I keep Marte and Viz, Marte is throwing like Viz did early on in the season. He can still be dominant when he goes out. Just throw strikes.

santo=dorf
08-05-2005, 03:52 PM
vizz the fizz
april 10 times pitched 13.1ip 11 er 6bb 17 hits
may 9 times pitched 10.1ip 6 er 3 hr 5 bb 12 hits
june 9 times pitched 12.0ip 3 er 2 hr 6 bb 13 hits
july 15 times pitched 2 er 1 hr 6 bb 15 hits
.279 ba against
pitching w/2 outs 16.2 ip 19 hits 10er 5.40 era 10 bb 1 hr
I can't find a stat that tells inherited runners allowed to score but I know he leads the team in that stat. He sucks!
you know with 2 outs he is pitching with men on base that don't show up in his era.......... see cotts and marte's era for vizz the fizz's ineptness.
[/list]

Don't forget that horrible outing in April due to Ozzie's bad management, and Shingo's pathetic performance in the 9th. Didn't Viz give up 6 ER in the 11th and finished with 61 pitches? :o:

Damaso has a WHIP of 1.75 (getting worse,) a .791 OPS against, has allowed 9 of 27 inherited runners to score. (33%)

Vizcaino has a WHIP of 1.53 (decreasing) a .772 OPS against, and has allowed 11 of 38 inherited runners to.(28% WHICH IS ****ING LESS THAN MARTE!!!!:angry: )

Are the blind Damaso worshipers going to try and jump on me again for pointing this out? :rolleyes:

santo=dorf
08-05-2005, 03:55 PM
Word is Mike Remlinger will be DFA today, but I would still take Marte over him. :cool:

SoxRule72
08-05-2005, 03:58 PM
Not sure if someone mentioned this already but I think it's almost time to have Cotts and Marte reverse roles. I have more confidence in Cotts these days than Marte...even thought Marte could be more dominant.

It seems he's pitching w/o any confidence.

Ol' No. 2
08-05-2005, 04:00 PM
Not sure if someont mentioned this already but I think it's almost time to have Cotts and Marte reverse roles. I have more confidence in Cotts these days than Marte...even thought Marte could be more dominant.

It seems he's pitching w/o any confidence.I keep hearing this. Let me get this straight. You want to have Marte pitch for a full inning or more and Cotts for a lefty specialist? Despite the fact that Cotts is better against righties than lefties?:?:

SoxRule72
08-05-2005, 04:03 PM
I keep hearing this. Let me get this straight. You want to have Marte pitch for a full inning or more and Cotts for a lefty specialist? Despite the fact that Cotts is better against righties than lefties?:?:

What I want to get straight is somebody getting the damn job done and not coming in walking punch and judy hitters as Marte has been doing.

MIgrenade
08-05-2005, 04:03 PM
These guys come to mind.
Scott Eyre
Kent Mercker
Jeremy Affeldt
BJ Ryan

I don't see any of these guys clearing waivers when both the Yankees and Red Sox are looking for pitching. If the Yankees are thinking about Sele and have Nomo, that means they would sign all of these guys if they can find the space.

As for Marte vs Vizcaino, go with the hot hand. Both have been mediocre this season so that's the only way to go.
I wish Cotts would pitch entire innings. I'm sick of seeing him pulled against a righty when he pitches better against them.

wdelaney72
08-05-2005, 04:07 PM
Viz has improved quite a bit, but I still don't trust him all that much. I would love nothing more than to see a different LH specialist and show Marte the door, but we don't have another lefty to take his place.

What I'd prefer to see is Marte brought in earlier, mop-up data and save Cotts for later innings. Cotts may have been better numbers against righties, but his numbers against lefties are better than Marte's numbers against lefties. Marte = too walky.

Ol' No. 2
08-05-2005, 04:08 PM
I don't see any of these guys clearing waivers when both the Yankees and Red Sox are looking for pitching. If the Yankees are thinking about Sele and have Nomo, that means they would sign all of these guys if they can find the space.

As for Marte vs Vizcaino, go with the hot hand. Both have been mediocre this season so that's the only way to go.
I wish Cotts would pitch entire innings. I'm sick of seeing him pulled against a righty when he pitches better against them.What if the batter hits much better against lefties than against righties?

maurice
08-05-2005, 05:06 PM
Yep, it's another "flavor of the week" thread. Which reliever sucks more this week? It'll keep changing the rest of the year. Just wait until Jenks gives up four runs in a five-run game and we almost lose.
So true... a "what have you done for me lately post" once again.

Seriously. Everything negative is based on a sample size of 1 game but ignores all positive games. (Strangely, there was no "Marte Rulz" thread the day before, when he came in with a runner on, and drew a K and a pop up on 8 pitches; nothing on 7/30, when he came in with a man on, stranded him, and earned his 15th hold; nothing the day before that, when he came in with 2 on, stranded them both, and made 3 outs.) For a Sox reliever to avoid criticism, he'd have to post a 0.00 ERA. Even then, they'd probably criticize him for giving up too many unearned runs or inherited runners. Can you imagine how many complaints there'd be if our bullpen were actually composed of below-average / AAAA pitchers, instead of being arguably the best in all of baseball?

Rooney4Prez56
08-07-2005, 09:53 AM
Viscaino only looks bad because Ozzie keeps putting him in in the 8th or 9th inning, a role he is not suited for. I'd take Visciano in his PROPER role, a 6th or 7th inning guy. I'm sick of Ozzie putting out his lover Marte all the time. He sucks!

TornLabrum
08-07-2005, 12:30 PM
Viscaino only looks bad because Ozzie keeps putting him in in the 8th or 9th inning, a role he is not suited for. I'd take Visciano in his PROPER role, a 6th or 7th inning guy. I'm sick of Ozzie putting out his lover Marte all the time. He sucks!

Boy, I'll bet that if Ozzie did everything suggested here at WSI, we'd be in first place!!!!! And not only that, but with a huge lead!!!!!!

Oh, wait....we already are!

rowand33
08-07-2005, 12:42 PM
Marte's been bad since the allstar break (4.15 ERA), Viz has posted a sterling 0.93 ERA since the break.

So Viz has been much better lately.

It's like comparing apples and oranges though cause it's a lefty-righty comparison.

Now, if this were between Cotts and Marte, I'd take Cotts in a heartbeat.

Oh, and for what it's worth... I always felt Leaky Luis was a much better nickname than the Viz the Fizz (which flat out sucks)

FarWestChicago
08-07-2005, 12:54 PM
I always felt Leaky Luis was a much better nickname than the Viz the Fizz (which flat out sucks)Definitely gotta go with Leaky Luis. :thumbsup:

rowand33
08-07-2005, 01:10 PM
Definitely gotta go with Leaky Luis. :thumbsup:

Good call. I thought I might be bias because Leaky Luis was a Rowand33 original :D: .

You gotta go with the alliteration. It wins every time.

fquaye149
08-07-2005, 01:58 PM
vizz the fizz
april 10 times pitched 13.1ip 11 er 6bb 17 hits
may 9 times pitched 10.1ip 6 er 3 hr 5 bb 12 hits
june 9 times pitched 12.0ip 3 er 2 hr 6 bb 13 hits
july 15 times pitched 2 er 1 hr 6 bb 15 hits
.279 ba against
pitching w/2 outs 16.2 ip 19 hits 10er 5.40 era 10 bb 1 hr
I can't find a stat that tells inherited runners allowed to score but I know he leads the team in that stat. He sucks!
you know with 2 outs he is pitching with men on base that don't show up in his era.......... see cotts and marte's era for vizz the fizz's ineptness.
[/list]

wow. what your numbers basically seem to say is he has had a rough Apriol and May that inflated his numbers while his June and July have been relatively solid.

maurice
08-08-2005, 12:23 PM
Marte's been bad since the allstar break (4.15 ERA)

It's probably not fair to call a 4.15 ERA "bad." More accurately, he's been struggling, mediocre, bad by Marte's standards, or bad by #1-pitching-in-the-AL-Sox standards. A 4.15 ERA is above-average in the AL.

To illustrate, the Yankees have only 4 pitchers with > 20 IP and an ERA < 4.15.