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View Full Version : Whos tired of Hawks constant whining about the umpiring?


Mercy!
08-04-2005, 05:09 PM
Im getting extremely tired of Hawks continuing saga of "The Umpires Done Us Wrong." Its one thing if an ump can be shown to have blown a call that DIRECTLY results in one or more runs on that play, but the constant whining over strike zones, called strikes and close calls has been going on all year. And it sounds particularly silly coming from the broadcast booth of the team with the best record in baseball.

It also makes me somewhat uneasy. For the most part this year, Ozzie has picked his spots carefully and smartly with umpires (well, except for his most recent ejection). And at least when Oz goes off, the particulars of the argument stay between those on the field. But Hawks mini-rants are out there on the air waves for all to hear. Whos to say that it wont start to have some adverse effect on the umpiring down the stretch?

Please, I like Hawk. I hope this doesn't turn into another bash Hawk thread.

TheOldRoman
08-04-2005, 05:16 PM
Not me.
Hawk is a fan, and he bitches about things just like we do.
I would much rather have him complaining about horrible umpiring than making excuses for the umpires and insulting our intelligence.

I remember the Sunday night game against the Twins in April where Santana was getting about 1 foot off the plate. Joe Morgan was commenting that the Sox players didn't like the strike zone. They showed on K-Zone that that ball was at least a foot outside and he said, "Uhh, umm, that was on the outside corner. The Sox hitter don't like it, but it was."

This year we have fallen victim to some of the worst umpiring I have ever seen. We have met a handful of umpires who seemingly think people pay to watch them call games. The whole year we have gotten squeezed and the other teams have generally gotten a huge strike zone. At least 5 of our losses were directly influenced by horrible calls. That isn't an excuse, its a fact. We win anyways. The umpires seemingly have a vendetta against Ozzie, and they take it out on the Sox. It stems from the incident with Wendelstedt last year. Some of the umpires are professional enough to call a fair game, but others feel it is their right to help the Sox lose. I wouldn't want a home town announcer who looks the other way on stuff like that. I would rather have Hawk spouting out the Sox' company line than the MLB company line. If the call is horrible, say it is. The last few days we have had umpires let the Sox get pounded, and then throw out on of our pitchers without warning; we had an umpire who gave the Jays' nobody pitcher a feet to shoulder strike zone while squeezing Garland, and we had an umpire who gave the Jays a baserunner when the batter swung at the ball. If you swing at the ball, it's not an HBP. I know that from my 2 years umpiring 11 year olds.

BigEdWalsh
08-04-2005, 05:25 PM
I voted No. I've seen some awful umpiring lately and Hawk is just tellin' it like it is.

Gavin
08-04-2005, 05:29 PM
It's whiney, annoying, and picky. It's like losing and then saying "yeah but..." to some call back in the third inning. And while sometimes that might really be the case, it gets old quickly.

TornLabrum
08-04-2005, 05:43 PM
When the umpiring is bad, he should call them on it. He does. When the umpiring is good, he should compliment them for it. He does. I voted no.

chisoxmike
08-04-2005, 06:05 PM
Hawk isn't finding excuses becuase the Sox haven't been playing well. He's not blaming the umpires for the losses, he's a fan, and he's being one by pointing out the horrible umpiring that has been going on now for the past few games. Hawk is speaking the truth and is doing what I and others are doing when they are at games and at home.

gobears1987
08-04-2005, 06:07 PM
I"m not mad, he is saying what we think. He was dead on Monday.

MarySwiss
08-04-2005, 06:12 PM
The outcome of this poll will depend on whether more Sox fans are of the "all sportscasters should be objective" school of thought or of the "national sportscasters should be objective, but local sportscasters should be fans" school.

So, since we're totally biased and completely unobjective, the outcome really isn't in doubt, is it?

I love seeing Hawk tee up the umps when they suck.

Steelrod
08-04-2005, 06:15 PM
I'm no Hawk fan, but he's on the money. It's been very lopsided this. year. I tend to always think that, but this year, theres no question. If nothing else, how 'bout home field advantage at least!

Juice16
08-04-2005, 06:23 PM
I 100% disagree. I am completely disgusted with the poor umpiring I see and if Hawk wants to say something....PLEASE do. I'm so tired of announcers trying to make up for an umpires terrible call. I wish every stadium would have the quest?? whatever its called so these umps can be held accountable. I know it's not an easy job, I have umped many levels. But there is no excuse for a lot of the calls that happen. "Whine" as much as you want Hawk.

LuvSox
08-04-2005, 06:23 PM
I like Hawk better when he is bitching about something. Hey, at least he isn't bantering with DJ about nonsense. :smile:

Sxy Mofo
08-04-2005, 06:23 PM
I remember the Sunday night game against the Twins in April where Santana was getting about 1 foot off the plate. Joe Morgan was commenting that the Sox players didn't like the strike zone. They showed on K-Zone that that ball was at least a foot outside and he said, "Uhh, umm, that was on the outside corner. The Sox hitter don't like it, but it was."



I remember that game. That's why I like k-zone, calls out umpires with bad strike zones.


The other reason I like k-zone is when the announcer claims the strike call was good, they take a look at the k-zone, it's 8 inches outside, and the guy STILL says, "that one just managed to catch the corner" to save his previous thought. these guys would look better if they swallowed their pride and admitted they were wrong.


and, hawk rules.

Juice16
08-04-2005, 06:27 PM
I remember the Sunday night game against the Twins in April where Santana was getting about 1 foot off the plate. Joe Morgan was commenting that the Sox players didn't like the strike zone. They showed on K-Zone that that ball was at least a foot outside and he said, "Uhh, umm, that was on the outside corner. The Sox hitter don't like it, but it was."

.

If I remember correctly, they stopped showing the K-Zone that night because it was so ridiculous.

Daver
08-04-2005, 06:28 PM
Ken Harrelson is terrible to begin with, whining about the umpires makes him seem even more foolish, if that is possible.

Ol' No. 2
08-04-2005, 06:31 PM
It's one thing to point out bad umpiring. Harping about it for 20 minutes is something else again. Let it go, for crissake. I vote yes. And there are a number of other topics he tends to beat to death, too.

SOXfnNlansing
08-04-2005, 06:31 PM
The only time I really KNOW we got screwed this season was the umpiring on that 1st Oakland trip. I was really there with Hawk on that. Hawk getting upset about MB getting tossed was just human nature. I was po'd also, but the bp did the job and we won the game. Close pitches go both ways imo. Close plays on the bases ditto. It looked in today's game that gooch's nice play in the 8th inning was close. They called him out. The Blue Jay's were mad. I think when Hawk says that we 'give' the other team 4 strikes because of bad umpiring the case can be made for insecurity. jmo..... we are going to win this thing! I wish I could listen to the game on the radio while watching tv, but there's too long of a delay with DTV that it's not an option.

downstairs
08-04-2005, 06:32 PM
Yes. I am. A lot.

The O's incident(s)... I agree, those were terrible.

But umps do not lose games. Teams do.

Don't put yourself in a situation where one call makes/breaks the game.

We get as many bad calls as the teams we play against. It all evens out. It always does. Get over it.

mr_genius
08-04-2005, 06:34 PM
Hawk goes overboard at times when it comes to his incessant complaining about the umpires.

btw, there is not some large MLB conspiracy against the Sox in which we only get bad calls and all the umpires are out to get us.

all teams get bad calls against them, it just seems like more are against the Sox because we notice and remember them more.

eastchicagosoxfan
08-04-2005, 06:57 PM
I'm tired of it. Hawk's policy should be once and done. Put it behind you. That's what the team has to do.

The Wimperoo
08-04-2005, 07:16 PM
Last night was pathetic from Hawk. He wouldn't shut up about the "strikeout". I'm tired of it.

ChicagoHoosier
08-04-2005, 07:34 PM
I'd vote for something in the middle. No, but please tone it down. I think it's fine to rip on the ump, especially when Buehrle got tossed. I also think he went on a little too long about the Hillenbrand incident, and do NOT feel (as I posted in the post-game thread) that a missed call by a 1B umpire in the first inning costs anyone a ballgame. I like that Hawk defends his team and is emotional and is not afraid to criticize the ump, but maybe he coudl give it a rest after he's made his point. It's even fine to reiterate the point later in the telecast - just don't go on and on and on about it (like I've done twice in that chat room during a game and gotten called out on it).

PaleHoseGeorge
08-04-2005, 07:45 PM
The only time I really KNOW we got screwed this season was the umpiring on that 1st Oakland trip. I was really there with Hawk on that. Hawk getting upset about MB getting tossed was just human nature. I was po'd also, but the bp did the job and we won the game. Close pitches go both ways imo. Close plays on the bases ditto. It looked in today's game that gooch's nice play in the 8th inning was close. They called him out. The Blue Jay's were mad. I think when Hawk says that we 'give' the other team 4 strikes because of bad umpiring the case can be made for insecurity. jmo.....

Good points. I agree Hawk whines about the umpires far too much. Only that one game in Oakland was worthy of as much of a stink as he made over it because the umpire was definitely trying to screw the Sox.

Hawk sounded positively silly backing up the umpire in the Toronto game after pasting the one in Baltimore the previous day. And as for whining over balls and strikes, that's just counterproductive. Umpires might be too incompetent to use the proper strike zone stipulated by the MLB rule book, but I don't believe they're trying to stick it to the Sox by calling balls strikes and strikes balls.

Rooney, as always, is the better option.

jehosaphat
08-04-2005, 08:22 PM
"The umps cost us the game" is the quintessential lament of a loser. Umpires may not help you win, but in the end only losers claim that poor umpiring cost them a game. There are plenty of opportunities in games to win or lose, and constantly carping on the umpiring is a sure sign of a crybaby. That said, it is certainly OK for an announcer to point out a bad or questionable call. But I think Hawk crosses the line, so I voted "yes".

A couple of comments on Hawk (although I know that I risk the getting the "This Thread Sucks" post). In my mind, he's an OK announcer. He is a true homer and a character, and I think is what a local broadcaster should be. He has also been in the booth long enough to be considered a venerable part of the Sox landscape, and and I tend to like continuity and tradition. I like the Hawkisms (He gone, Stretch, You can put it on the board............YES). Hawk can be funny, and he knows his baseball.

On the downside, although he is a character he doesn't have the charm of a Harry Caray (few do) and can come off a little bit arrogant at times. Besides moaning and groaning about the umps, I get sick of his stories from his playing days, even though I came of age in 1960s and 70s. It seems like he tells the same tired old stories all the time (yes Hawk, we know you thin Yaz was a great player). Also, his reading of the e-mail can be very tiresome, especially when its a softball question (e.g., Trina from Yorkville asks "Hawk and DJ, Do you think the Sox are for real? Well Trina, the answer is .....), which most of the e-mail questions seem to be.

There is a web site called "Heave the Hawk" which goes way over the top in my opinion. I stumbled on this site and couldn't help but think "Man, whoever designed this has way too much time on his hands."

So, I'm happy for them to keep old Hawk, warts and all, as an announcer. But, he's surely not one of the all-time great announcers.

PS: Fans who try to catch foul balls don't cost teams games either. I'm amazed at the number of Cub fans who state that Bartman cost them the world series. Why didn't the Cub pitcher strike the batter out with the next pitch? Bartman wasn't pitching. Bartman had nothing to do with the error of the shortstop that opened the floodgates, and he certainly didn't cause the Cub bats to be silent the remaining inning and a half, or the entire next game. Winners don't whine when they lose.

Lip Man 1
08-04-2005, 08:55 PM
Old saying...'a squeeky wheel gets the grease.' The only way that I know of to change the system and perhaps get the bad umpires out of it is to KEEP bitching about it.

However it has to be justified. Personally I don't see Hawk doing a lot of bitching unless it is blatent. Hell I've even heard Kenny say that the Sox will continue to let the league office know if they think things aren't right. (i.e. Buehrle in Baltimore Monday.)

Lip

jehosaphat
08-04-2005, 10:08 PM
[QUOTE=Lip Man 1]Old saying...'a squeeky wheel gets the grease.' The only way that I know of to change the system and perhaps get the bad umpires out of it is to KEEP bitching about it.

I think MLB does has a means to evaluate umpires, and I don't think umpires are any better or worse than they have ever been, but it is definitely OK to complain when there are problems.

However it has to be justified. Personally I don't see Hawk doing a lot of bitching unless it is blatent.

That's where we part ways, I guess. I think Hawk harps on the umps too often and he does more of it than other announcers. But, you're right, it is not as if Hawk is fixated on the issue, and I don't want to overstate it. In truth, I'd happily put up with some additional umpire harping if he'd just cut back on reading and responding to the stupid e-mail.

Hell I've even heard Kenny say that the Sox will continue to let the league office know if they think things aren't right. (i.e. Buehrle in Baltimore Monday.)

That's the job of a GM - no problem there.

Rocklive99
08-04-2005, 10:19 PM
Something I'm sick of seems to be some sort of theory DJ has. Whenever he makes a point that Hawk agrees with, he drags it on and keeps repeating all the time. I don't know how many times I've heard how the '3-2 count is now the toughest position there is to be for a batter' or about his struggles with Terry Mullholland

jdm2662
08-04-2005, 10:27 PM
I'm ok with his rant on Monday. However, yesterday was a joke. Yes it was a bad call, but it was in the top of the first. I agree, the wrong call was made. However, that was not the reason why they lost. The Sox lost the game themselves. It's ok to say, it was the wrong call, or I don't agree with it, etc. But, don't keep bringing it up. Complaining about the umps is for whinning losers. You are going to get the close calls go your way at times, and some against you. It's a way of life.

NDSox12
08-04-2005, 10:35 PM
I'm not going to vote because I also fall somewhere in between. Normally, I enjoy Hawk calling it as he sees it. If the umpire makes a terrible call, I don't see any problem with calling him out on it. However...

Last night really bothered me. Yes, we all agree that Hillenbrand went around on that pitch and it should have been a strike rather than a hit by pitch. However, Hawk must have mentioned it ten times after that as the "deciding play of the game". That's completely ridiculous, especially since it happened in the first inning. Plus, he was wrong when describing the play all night. He kept claiming that Hillenbrand would have struck out and the inning would have been over. Problem is, the count was 0-1 when it happened. I can't believe someone didn't correct him on that!

I was also a little disappointed in the title of the postgame thread last night. "The strikeout that wasn't"? The guy gets three strikes, even if it was a bad call. For all we know, he may have knocked the 0-2 pitch out of the park...

... but enough about last night. In general, I do like hearing Hawk call an umpire out when he makes a bad call. However, he better make sure he gets all his facts straight if he's going to dwell on the call for the rest of the game.

popilius
08-04-2005, 10:38 PM
I voted No. I've seen some awful umpiring lately and Hawk is just tellin' it like it is.

I agree with you. We have had some bad umping lately. You know. . . it's the "dog days of summer" for the umps too. Maybe it's a bad stretch.

:gulp:

Podzilla_40
08-05-2005, 01:48 AM
As long as it keeps him from saying that Buehrle reminds him so much of Catfish Hunter. Gee Hawk, you'd think the if you said it 100 times everyone would remember it. No ****, he pitches fast, wooo. But seriously, Hawk pisses and moans way too much. It's worse than when someone skies one behind home plate and he claims they just missed it.

Nellie_Fox
08-05-2005, 02:49 AM
It's worse than when someone skies one behind home plate and he claims they just missed it.I'll admit I don't get to see televised games much, but I've never heard Hawk call a popup behind home a "JM". (Some of you may remember when Hawk used to say "put that one in your scorecard as a JM, for 'just missed it.'") A "JM" is usually a fly to fairly deep outfield that hangs up in the air forever.

RedHeadPaleHoser
08-05-2005, 06:34 AM
If Hawk said nothing, the majority of fans would be callin g for his head. EVERY broadcast team, be it TV or radio is considered a "homer" - that's one of the reasons we watch. The North Siders were in LOVE with Chump and Stone Pony - until the players decided the broadcasters were the reason they had a bad year...(which may go down as my favorite scapegoat story besides Bartman)....

I say, Hawk, KEEP IT UP. Call them out, each and every time.

Iguana775
08-05-2005, 07:01 AM
Im getting extremely tired of Hawks continuing saga of "The Umpires Done Us Wrong." Its one thing if an ump can be shown to have blown a call that DIRECTLY results in one or more runs on that play, but the constant whining over strike zones, called strikes and close calls has been going on all year. And it sounds particularly silly coming from the broadcast booth of the team with the best record in baseball.

It also makes me somewhat uneasy. For the most part this year, Ozzie has picked his spots carefully and smartly with umpires (well, except for his most recent ejection). And at least when Oz goes off, the particulars of the argument stay between those on the field. But Hawks mini-rants are out there on the air waves for all to hear. Whos to say that it wont start to have some adverse effect on the umpiring down the stretch?

Please, I like Hawk. I hope this doesn't turn into another bash Hawk thread.


You better add most of us fans to that cause there are a lot of fans that bitch about the umpires, including me.

Rooney4Prez56
08-05-2005, 08:31 AM
It's OK to complain when the call's are terrible, or when Buehrle got ejected (Hawk's rage was perfectly justified), but you have to pick your times. Complaining about Sox batters not getting a call when they're a few runs up is wrong. I'm a little tired of him always (seemingly) callin out the umps, because a few bad calls are part of baseball.

Hokiesox
08-05-2005, 09:04 AM
Not me.
Hawk is a fan, and he bitches about things just like we do.
I would much rather have him complaining about horrible umpiring than making excuses for the umpires and insulting our intelligence.

I remember the Sunday night game against the Twins in April where Santana was getting about 1 foot off the plate. Joe Morgan was commenting that the Sox players didn't like the strike zone. They showed on K-Zone that that ball was at least a foot outside and he said, "Uhh, umm, that was on the outside corner. The Sox hitter don't like it, but it was."

This year we have fallen victim to some of the worst umpiring I have ever seen. We have met a handful of umpires who seemingly think people pay to watch them call games. The whole year we have gotten squeezed and the other teams have generally gotten a huge strike zone. At least 5 of our losses were directly influenced by horrible calls. That isn't an excuse, its a fact. We win anyways. The umpires seemingly have a vendetta against Ozzie, and they take it out on the Sox. It stems from the incident with Wendelstedt last year. Some of the umpires are professional enough to call a fair game, but others feel it is their right to help the Sox lose. I wouldn't want a home town announcer who looks the other way on stuff like that. I would rather have Hawk spouting out the Sox' company line than the MLB company line. If the call is horrible, say it is. The last few days we have had umpires let the Sox get pounded, and then throw out on of our pitchers without warning; we had an umpire who gave the Jays' nobody pitcher a feet to shoulder strike zone while squeezing Garland, and we had an umpire who gave the Jays a baserunner when the batter swung at the ball. If you swing at the ball, it's not an HBP. I know that from my 2 years umpiring 11 year olds.

Then you know the rule wrong. The hands are not part of the bat. The batter takes his hands with him after his at-bat. If he swings, and the ball hits his hands, but not the bat, he gets 1B.

Hangar18
08-05-2005, 09:55 AM
What Im getting sick and tired of is UMPIRES who are too lazy to make the RIGHT CALLS, Out of Position making calls ......etc etc. I can count a number of games where we got a BAD call that took us out of an inning/game.

If its warranted .......keep on bitching Hawk ........ I like to hear the truth

SoxFan78
08-05-2005, 10:02 AM
Then you know the rule wrong. The hands are not part of the bat. The batter takes his hands with him after his at-bat. If he swings, and the ball hits his hands, but not the bat, he gets 1B.

I have to disagree with you. As far as I know, as long as you swing the bat, if you get hit, its still a strike.

TheOldRoman
08-05-2005, 10:18 AM
Then you know the rule wrong. The hands are not part of the bat. The batter takes his hands with him after his at-bat. If he swings, and the ball hits his hands, but not the bat, he gets 1B.
Huh?:?:
If you SWING the bat, it is a strike. Regardless of where it hits you, it is a strike and not an HBP because you swung at it.

ode to veeck
08-05-2005, 10:33 AM
I've been tired of Hawk since he joined the Sox booth ... and still am


On the other hand, I used to hate the fact that Jack Brickhouse would hardly ever say anything about a call, and actually prefer an announcer who calls it like he sees it, even to the point of being someone like Jimmy Piersall.

As far as Hawk's ranting on the bad calls go, I'm fine with it, just still don't care for him at all as the Sox announcer ...

soxrme
08-05-2005, 10:40 AM
Do the names of Wendellstat and Froemming mean anything to you?:angry: :angry:

PodzStyleMultiAccount
08-05-2005, 10:44 AM
the bottomline is just like in the NBA, the umpires give calls to the stars/great teams. Except the Umps missed the memo where the White Sox were the best team in baseball. They ump our games like we are the Kansas City Royals. We deserve more respect than we are getting.

TornLabrum
08-05-2005, 10:53 AM
I think the wording of the poll is interesting: "constant whining"? Maybe some of us don't think Hawk's complaints are "constant whining." Of course I'm one of those old farts who actually remembers when there was a defined strike zone and the major differences were between the leagues and they were mainly because of the types of chest protectors the umpires wore.

The AL umpires wore balloon protectors, and could not squat down as far as the NL umpires who wore the type all umpires wear now. So the AL strike zone tended to be a bit higher than the NL strike zone, just due to parallax.

Dan H
08-05-2005, 11:54 AM
Harrelson was right about the Buehrle ejection, but I have long tired of the umpiring complaints. Umpires miss calls just as pitchers hang breaking pitches and hitters "just missed it." Everybody gets bad breaks when it comes to the umps. Just call the game.

skobabe8
08-05-2005, 11:54 AM
If I remember correctly, they stopped showing the K-Zone that night because it was so ridiculous.

I remember that too. I was watching the game with my blue kool-aid drinkin buddies and they were telling me to quit bitching because those were strikes. The K zone comes up and they shut their mouths promptly.

Hokiesox
08-05-2005, 12:03 PM
Huh?:?:
If you SWING the bat, it is a strike. Regardless of where it hits you, it is a strike and not an HBP because you swung at it.

I stand corrected. You are correct. It's rule 6.08 b.

thepaulbowski
08-05-2005, 12:48 PM
Since I usually have the TV on mute and the radio on, I don't know how much he talks about the bad calls. But, as bad as some these umpires have been recently, the point needs to brought up to anybody who will listen.