PDA

View Full Version : *Official* "The Strikeout That Wasn't" Post Game Thread


DickAllen72
08-03-2005, 10:03 PM
Have at it.

CHISOXFAN13
08-03-2005, 10:04 PM
Nice to see Crede and Podsednik waste nine at-bats tonight.

Crede's pop-up in the 8th made me sick.

Oh well.

chisoxt
08-03-2005, 10:04 PM
How about the 'No Clutch Hitting with RISP' post game thread. It's always the umpires fault.

32nd&Wallace
08-03-2005, 10:05 PM
Thanks again Paulie, for coming through when it could make a difference

CHISOXFAN13
08-03-2005, 10:05 PM
How about the 'No Clutch Hitting with RISP' post game thread. It's always the umpires fault.

Agreed. The Sox had lead-off doubles in consecutive innings and scored ZERO runs in those frames.

SoxSpeed22
08-03-2005, 10:05 PM
El Duque rebounded well afer that awful 1st inning. The Sox need one hit with a runner in scoring position and they can't.
Forecast for tonight... Very cloudy with slight chance of rain.
Very irritating loss to swallow. We try not to get swept tommorow.
EDIT: Merge this.
EDIT2: the forecast is a prediction of this thread, not an actual dark cloud.

chisoxmike
08-03-2005, 10:05 PM
Besides the "hit by pitch" the story of the game was...

:hawk
"Sox threaten but can't score."

minastirith67
08-03-2005, 10:05 PM
How about the 'No Clutch Hitting with RISP' post game thread. It's always the umpires fault.

Tonight was definitely the umpire's fault. How can you argue against that?

CHISOXFAN13
08-03-2005, 10:05 PM
Thanks again Paulie, for coming through when it could make a difference

LOL. Blaming a guy who produced two of the three runs.

NDSox12
08-03-2005, 10:06 PM
You can't possibly blame this one on the umpires. Yeah, they got the call wrong, but who's to say he wouldn't have walked or gotten a hit anyway. Unlike what Hawk said all game, there was only one strike on Hillenbrand when that happened.

0 for 11 or so with runners on scoring position... there is the reason for the loss.

NSSoxFan
08-03-2005, 10:06 PM
No situational hitting tonight, it's that simple. I'd like to blame it on the umpire but I don't think so. What killed us tonight was the two innings in a row where we got a lead-off double and couldn't get the runner home.

I'll save Lip the time. We are 3-9 in our last 12 at home.

Go get 'em tomorrow.

Optipessimism
08-03-2005, 10:06 PM
The strikeout call was missed, but I think the story of the game is all the blown opportunities to score. Bad calls are made and the great teams can overcome them. Pure and simple, we need more offense.

popilius
08-03-2005, 10:07 PM
How about the 'No Clutch Hitting with RISP' post game thread. It's always the umpires fault.

That's true. . . the umpire did blow the call, but we had so many chances to score and didn't come through. . .

:(:

mike squires
08-03-2005, 10:07 PM
tough loss, but these are a bit easier to swallow when you are in August and over 30 games over. We need a win tomorrow to break out of the mini funk.

chisoxt
08-03-2005, 10:08 PM
Agreed. The Sox had lead-off doubles in consecutive innings and scored ZERO runs in those frames.

You can also call it the "WE Can't Play Dead at Home' thread as well. It has been brought up before, but our play at home in the past two months is atrocious. Even the games we've won, we have struggled, enev against bad teams I rather watch this team play on the road. They seem play with more zest on the road/

chisoxmike
08-03-2005, 10:08 PM
Forget the call people, that isn't why the Sox lost tonight. They were flat, plan and simple. Also, another home loss...:?: :mad:

LuvSox
08-03-2005, 10:09 PM
Did Carl crush that ball or what? Jeez!

Optipessimism
08-03-2005, 10:09 PM
Tonight was definitely the umpire's fault. How can you argue against that?

Because we could already expect the Jays to score 4 runs in this game off Hernandez anyway. When JC or El Duque start, usually as a rule the team is going to have to put up some runs. It's not like they were facing Roger Clemens out there, they were facing a bottom of the rotation 5-6 inning pitcher and couldn't score. You can't blame everything on the umpires. The offense didn't show up to game today.

Brian26
08-03-2005, 10:10 PM
Tonight was definitely the umpire's fault. How can you argue against that?

Well, after Harrelson drove it into our heads for 8 innings that that was the "play of the game", I figured I'd see this at least once or twice. We lost, but we had some chances to come back. We had guys in scoring position numerous times and couldn't get them in. I'm not going to blame the defeat on a blown call in the first ****ing inning.

I love Hawk, but this is one time when I disagree.

rowand33
08-03-2005, 10:11 PM
Forget the call people, that isn't why the Sox lost tonight. They were flat, plan and simple. Also, another home loss...:?: :mad:

yep. we lost because we played like ****.

how many runners did we just strand in scoring position?

2004 Sox made an appearance tonight.

DickAllen72
08-03-2005, 10:11 PM
Did Carl crush that ball or what? Jeez!

Carl is Da Man! :bandance:

Brian26
08-03-2005, 10:12 PM
You can't possibly blame this one on the umpires. Yeah, they got the call wrong, but who's to say he wouldn't have walked or gotten a hit anyway. Unlike what Hawk said all game, there was only one strike on Hillenbrand when that happened.

I think Hawk's got some residual anger right now because of what happened last night with Ozzie and the homeplate ump and what happened with Gorman in Baltimore. We've got to let that go before we get a reputation in the league. I think the same thing happened in '91 or '92 with Hawk and the "tea cup time" stuff. I love Hawk, but I can't blame the ump for this loss. That's too much of a stretch.

PeteWard
08-03-2005, 10:14 PM
Thanks again Paulie, for coming through when it could make a difference

That's just asinine. Pulling the team from a three-run deficit to a one-run deficit does not make a difference? I guess it is his fault that it wasn't a grand slam!

SoxSpeed22
08-03-2005, 10:16 PM
It wasn't anybody's fault. It was EVERYBODY's fault.

jdm2662
08-03-2005, 10:17 PM
Very bad trend I'm seeing here. How many LOB tonight? I lost track after the fifth...
________
Weed Vaporizers (http://weedvaporizer.info/)

CHISOXFAN13
08-03-2005, 10:20 PM
Very bad trend I'm seeing here. How many LOB tonight? I lost track after the fifth...

Come on. Two games does not make a trend. This is the same team that just kicked the **** out of Baltimore four times.

Here we go again with the dark clouds. It's freeking baseball, and this stuff happens.

whitesoxfan1986
08-03-2005, 10:20 PM
What happened to the clutch hits? the bats died with RISP tonight
Why didn't we pinch hit Timo instead of Blum? because Timo is Clutch.

PicktoCLick72
08-03-2005, 10:21 PM
Another case where the Sox are playing down to their competition. It seems the ox get up for some series but don't for others. I hope Ozzie can step in and straighten them out.

shoota
08-03-2005, 10:21 PM
How about the 'No Clutch Hitting with RISP' post game thread. It's always the umpires fault.

Yeah, I hear you. The umps did cost us 4 runs on a blown call, but the Sox bats did have 9 innings to get something done.

Optipessimism
08-03-2005, 10:21 PM
Come on. Two games does not make a trend. This is the same team that just kicked the **** out of Baltimore four times.

Here we go again with the dark clouds. It's freeking baseball, and this stuff happens.

I said this before in the gameday thread and I'll say it again. Baltimore = pitching machine. The Charlotte Knights would have swept that series.

SoxSpeed22
08-03-2005, 10:22 PM
What happened to the clutch hits? the bats died with RISP tonight
Why didn't we pinch hit Timo instead of Blum? because Timo is Clutch.Ain't no Teal.:tealpolice:

NSSoxFan
08-03-2005, 10:22 PM
Here we go again with the dark clouds. It's freeking baseball, and this stuff happens.

I've just about had it with the dark clouds. It has alienated a good amount of great posters from post-game threads.

CHISOXFAN13
08-03-2005, 10:22 PM
What happened to the clutch hits? the bats died with RISP tonight
Why didn't we pinch hit Timo instead of Blum? because Timo is Clutch.

I'm not sure why you put that in teal. Perez has produced a lot more runs as a pinch hitter than Blum.

I know Ozzie is trying to put him in a position to succeed but come on.

CHISOXFAN13
08-03-2005, 10:24 PM
I said this before in the gameday thread and I'll say it again. Baltimore = pitching machine. The Charlotte Knights would have swept that series.


Yeah, Bedard and Cabrera are freeking awful.

chisoxmike
08-03-2005, 10:24 PM
Tonight, the starting lineups could've gone

"Sox fans on your feet. For your 2004 Chicago White Sox.":D:

MRKARNO
08-03-2005, 10:25 PM
This game was lost because we failed in two straight innings to get home a leadoff double. I was at the game and did not see the pitch that everyone is talking about, but I think it's a lot more reasonable to point at the lack of fundamental baseball in the 3rd and 4th innings as the culprit. When you play a high number of close games, you gotta get the run in the vast majority of the time in that situation.

Optipessimism
08-03-2005, 10:26 PM
Another case where the Sox are playing down to their competition. It seems the ox get up for some series but don't for others. I hope Ozzie can step in and straighten them out.

Maybe he'll go around the clubhouse handing out pillows and blankets. I'm sure the offense would be much more comfortable falling asleep that way.

Hey, at least our manager isn't Dusty Baker. He'd be 'protecting his players' right now.

Optipessimism
08-03-2005, 10:27 PM
Yeah, Bedard and Cabrera are freeking awful.

Have you seen them pitch recently? Teal isn't the color of ignorance.

shoota
08-03-2005, 10:30 PM
I wish we could have 9 Tadahito Iguchi's bat in our lineup.

Optipessimism
08-03-2005, 10:32 PM
I wish we could have 9 Tadahito Iguchi's bat in our lineup.

Then we'd be the South Side Sushi Grinders. But, it would be awesome. RISP w/ less than two outs would score.

DC Sox Fan
08-03-2005, 10:32 PM
Watch out! Here comes the Tribe!!!

Is there any way we can play the rest of the games on the road? What is it about our home cookin' that stinks so bad???

Maybe it's tha at[censored before I get a month's vacation :cool: ]

PeteWard
08-03-2005, 10:32 PM
Have you seen them pitch recently? Teal isn't the color of ignorance.

Bedard is pitching pretty damn well through 4 tonight at LA and his ERA is still 2.37, so not sure what you are talking about

pczarapa
08-03-2005, 10:35 PM
You can also call it the "WE Can't Play Dead at Home' thread as well. It has been brought up before, but our play at home in the past two months is atrocious. Even the games we've won, we have struggled, enev against bad teams I rather watch this team play on the road. They seem play with more zest on the road/

That's the truth, this will be the third series we've lost since the all star break. Thank God we had the Orioles to pump up our record, but this team needs to wake up come stretch time.

32nd&Wallace
08-03-2005, 10:35 PM
LOL. Blaming a guy who produced two of the three runs.No, Paulie is coming infamous for failing to execute late in the innings during games a USCF

SOXBOY
08-03-2005, 10:36 PM
We lost due the fact we could not bring in men in scoring postion.The umps have nothing to do with it.It seems very time we kick butt on the road and we come home and take it easy.

32nd&Wallace
08-03-2005, 10:38 PM
That's just asinine. Pulling the team from a three-run deficit to a one-run deficit does not make a difference? I guess it is his fault that it wasn't a grand slam!Take a good, hard look at what Paulie's average is with men on base in the late innings and then come back and tell me what I said is asinine!

Fake Chet Lemon
08-03-2005, 10:38 PM
Good Crowds = White Sox Losing

This trend has to stop, this is the one trend that has carried over from the Jerry Manuel era. Lots of infield pop ups whenever there is a big crowd in the house. Can someone email Brooks Boyer and ask him to make every game in September and October a "salute to April" night and only sell 17,000 tickets?

shoota
08-03-2005, 10:39 PM
Someone explain this to me: The Sox acquire a no hit, long swing, defensive third baseman to back up a no hit, long swing, defensive third baseman?

chisoxt
08-03-2005, 10:39 PM
THank God some of the playoff games are played on the road. Do you realize that since mid June, we have played in a total of nine series at home and that we have only won three of them. Of those that we won - KC (sweep) LAD (Sweep) and Tampa Bay (Sweep)....all of these are lousy teams. Were it not for injured players Sweeney and Gagne, who knows how those would have ended up.

No the sky isn't falling, but some of you kool-aid drinkers have to wake up and see that this team has some serious issues (no left handed hitting) that will not go away, especially against good teams, which is what we'll face in the playoffs.

NSSoxFan
08-03-2005, 10:39 PM
Good Crowds = White Sox Losing

This trend has to stop, this is the one trend that has carried over from the Jerry Manuel era. Can someone email Brooks Boyer and ask him to make every game in September and October a "salute to April" night and only sell 17,000 tickets?

I get a kick out of people that actually believe good crowds make the Sox lose.

Optipessimism
08-03-2005, 10:39 PM
Bedard is pitching pretty damn well through 4 tonight at LA and his ERA is still 2.37, so not sure what you are talking about

Just because a guy pitches well sometimes doesn't mean he always does. He threw like crap against us. How he pitches today or next week or ten years ago doesn't change that. We faced a tired team with an overworked bullpen whose starters pitched poorly.

NSSoxFan
08-03-2005, 10:40 PM
Someone explain this to me: The Sox acquire a no hit, long swing, defensive third baseman to back up a no hit, long swing, defensive third baseman?

Someone explain this to me: why does Glenn Close continually spew off this type of garbage?

Fake Chet Lemon
08-03-2005, 10:42 PM
I get a kick out of people that actually believe good crowds make the Sox lose.

Did you catch any of the Twins-Sox series the last couple of September's? We are 3-9 in our last 12 at home while averaging over 30,000 in that stretch. I get a kick out of people who ignore reality.

Brian26
08-03-2005, 10:42 PM
Good Crowds = White Sox Losing

This trend has to stop, this is the one trend that has carried over from the Jerry Manuel era. Lots of infield pop ups whenever there is a big crowd in the house.

Whether this is true or not, I think a lot of us still remember that 2000 playoff series against Seattle when Frank, PK, Caballo, Mags hit a total of about 700 popups with men in scoring position. Terrible memories.

PeteWard
08-03-2005, 10:46 PM
Take a good, hard look at what Paulie's average is with men on base in the late innings and then come back and tell me what I said is asinine!

He brought the team back within striking distance. Your original post did not specify "late innings". He helped give the Sox a chance to tie, to play one-run baseball at home. That is important. Sox just couldn't get one more. I can't see focusing on him for this loss when he got 2 of our 3 RBIs, that's all.

Fake Chet Lemon
08-03-2005, 10:47 PM
* ATTENTION OZZIE * - Blum was not brought in to be your stud 8th inning pinch hitter with men on and two outs. He is an excellent glove man. And especially don't pinch hit him againt a guy who has struck him out 3 times in 6 career at bats. Got it? Thank you!

NSSoxFan
08-03-2005, 10:48 PM
* ATTENTION OZZIE * - Blum was not brought in to be your stud 8th inning pinch hitter with men on and two outs. He is an excellent glove man. And especially don't pinch hit him againt a guy who has struck him out 3 times in 6 career at bats against. Got it? Thank you.

You're losing it over one loss, my man. Calm down.

PeteWard
08-03-2005, 10:50 PM
Just because a guy pitches well sometimes doesn't mean he always does. He threw like crap against us. How he pitches today or next week or ten years ago doesn't change that. We faced a tired team with an overworked bullpen whose starters pitched poorly.

Well, LA is getting to him big time now so...

never mind. :redface:

kittle42
08-03-2005, 10:50 PM
Someone explain this to me: The Sox acquire a no hit, long swing, defensive third baseman to back up a no hit, long swing, defensive third baseman?

Uh, oh. Get prepared for the explanation for why Blum is actually 0-10 with no RBI when sometime soon he's 2-10 with 2 RBI. Those didn't count! :D:

Fake Chet Lemon
08-03-2005, 10:51 PM
You're losing it over one loss, my man. Calm down.


No, the loss isn't that big a deal. That Blum pinch hit move just seemed to be too "Manual-esk" for my liking. And yes, I was screaming about it to my wife BEFORE he made the out.

NSSoxFan
08-03-2005, 10:52 PM
No, the loss isn't that big a deal. That Blum pinch hit move just seemed to be too "Manual-esk" for my liking.

I guarantee you if Blum came through with a single or anything more that you would be calling Ozzie the best manager for a move like that.

PeteWard
08-03-2005, 10:53 PM
No, the loss isn't that big a deal.
Especially if you take a look at how the Cubs lost!!!:tongue:

Lip Man 1
08-03-2005, 10:54 PM
Another bad home loss, no clutch hitting... bad night overall. I can see (if that's the correct wording) losing to Oakland or Boston but friggin Detroit or Toronto at home?

Also the Jays sure seem to be scoring a ton of two out runs.

Ugly.

Lip

Fake Chet Lemon
08-03-2005, 10:54 PM
Especially if you take a look at how the Cubs lost!!!:tongue:

:D: :D: :D: Enjoyed that very much!:smile: :smile: :smile:

shoota
08-03-2005, 10:55 PM
Uh, oh. Get prepared for the explanation for why Blum is actually 0-10 with no RBI when sometime soon he's 2-10 with 2 RBI. Those didn't count! :D:

heh heh. :cool:

Edit: how 'bout that Caballo-like baserunning by Hinske tonight.

Lip Man 1
08-03-2005, 10:56 PM
Has the play at home been that poor since June? I didn't realize that...I thought it started with Oakland.

Who have the other losses been to?

Lip

mmmmmbeeer
08-03-2005, 11:02 PM
The offense seems to play with a different mindset at home, perhaps it's the whole Coors East idea that gets in their heads. Greg Walker needs to step up and get these guys to use the same approach to hitting at home as they have on the road. You look at the Baltimore series and guys were consistently going with what the pitcher gave them, we get home and guys are trying to pull everything. I'd say that it was the pitching, but it's not like David Bush is any better than the BAL pitchers.

One thing that is still glaring, both at home and away, is our lack of production against RHP. Without inserting a reliable lefty bat or two in the lineup, I don't know that there's much we can do about that.

The good thing is that we have an extremely comfortable lead over a struggling Twins team and an inconsistent Indians team. This gives our guys time to work on these things and still be able to absorb a few losses during an adjustment.

Lip Man 1
08-03-2005, 11:13 PM
Well they do seem to be hitting a lot of home runs or nothing lately at home. Strange...

Lip

slavko
08-03-2005, 11:19 PM
Tell me again how El Douchè is a big game pitcher.

kittle42
08-03-2005, 11:20 PM
Tell me again how El Douchè is a big game pitcher.

This wasn't a big game.

MRKARNO
08-03-2005, 11:21 PM
Also the Jays sure seem to be scoring a ton of two out runs.


Half of all runs scored in baseball are scored with two outs.

FarWestChicago
08-03-2005, 11:22 PM
Half of all runs scored in baseball are scored with two outs.Please, don't rain on Lip's rain. He's trying to be depressed. :D:

TornLabrum
08-03-2005, 11:24 PM
Half of all runs scored in baseball are scored with two outs.

And oddly enough none are ever scored with three outs.

LuvSox
08-03-2005, 11:28 PM
And oddly enough none are ever scored with three outs.

Ladies and gentlemen, Yogi Berra :D:

ndu3t4
08-03-2005, 11:30 PM
I think all of this "WE CAN'T WIN IN FRONT OF CROWDS" stuff is all BS. I think the last time Mark Buehrle pitched a game at home was when Boston came to town. I feel El Duque (who did a nice Freddy Garcia impression tonite) and Contreras have pitched 2/3 of the games that have been at home lately. Let's avoid the sweep tomorrow. I think Scotty's gonna go 3-4 and steel three bases, he's WAY overdue.

chisoxmike
08-03-2005, 11:31 PM
Well they do seem to be hitting a lot of home runs or nothing lately at home. Strange...

Lip

That has been a scary thing lately along with the home losses. The long ball way has been very prominate since the All Star Break, maybe it was the Oakland sweep.

:dunno:

Chisox353014
08-03-2005, 11:34 PM
The amazing thing is that our road record since the beginning of June is 18-5. The only series loss was at KC of all places.

Rocklive99
08-03-2005, 11:34 PM
Yep, they seem to be living and dieing by the HR. Pods has also slowed down a little, putting the little ball to a slight halt. But it may be true that the "Coors-like" stats of the Cell is getting in their heads, because they didn't seem to have a problem producing runs on Sunday and Monday at Baltimore.

Chisox353014
08-03-2005, 11:41 PM
Especially if you take a look at how the Cubs lost!!!:tongue:

Heh, heh, I saw that. Only the Flubs could lose on another team's walk-off strikeout. :D:

TaylorStSox
08-03-2005, 11:46 PM
Crede, Rowand and Konerko are killing us in situational AB's.

These are the dog days of summer. This team has fought real hard to have this record. A let down is to be expected. I'm not too down about it.

slavko
08-03-2005, 11:52 PM
This wasn't a big game.

Thanks, I feel better now.

iamkoza
08-03-2005, 11:53 PM
PK sub 50% with runner at 3rd less than 2 out? What's up with that?

iamkoza
08-03-2005, 11:55 PM
Crede, Rowand and Konerko are killing us in situational AB's.

These are the dog days of summer. This team has fought real hard to have this record. A let down is to be expected. I'm not too down about it.

Isn't rowand hitting .400 or so with RISP and 2 outs? He had one bad at bat tonight, but so far this rowand has been clutch

The great thing is the sox can have their standard .500 second half and still easily coast to a divison title

SomebodyToldMe
08-03-2005, 11:58 PM
PK sub 50% with runner at 3rd less than 2 out? What's up with that?

But if he was hitting .500, I'm sure you'll think it was better!

Yes, I know it's the same thing, but .500 sounds waaay better than 50%.

TaylorStSox
08-04-2005, 12:02 AM
Isn't rowand hitting .400 or so with RISP and 2 outs? He had one bad at bat tonight, but so far this rowand has been clutch

The great thing is the sox can have their standard .500 second half and still easily coast to a divison title

I said "right now." For about the last week he's failed to move runners over and get guys in. He's had some miserable timing with those lousy AB's. It's not like he's driving the ball. His .398 slugging% is getting old. I'm not worried long term, but it's frustrating.

Optipessimism
08-04-2005, 12:02 AM
A let down is to be expected. I'm not too down about it.

I'll agree with you there. If they're going to have a slump, I'd rather see the team do it now and pick things up in September going into the playoffs. Hopefully they come out and win tomorrow and right the ship under Contreras.

TaylorStSox
08-04-2005, 12:05 AM
Actually, I didn't say "right now." I meant it though. :redneck

Konerko has decent numbers, but it doesn't take a genius to know that he hurts the team more than he helps. He needs to realize that the right field foul line isn't at 2nd base.

Crede's actually been really productive this year, but tonight's game frustrated me.

LuvSox
08-04-2005, 12:09 AM
Crede's actually been really productive this year, but tonight's game frustrated me.

Holy crap, he's hitting in the .250's in August. Cool.

TaylorStSox
08-04-2005, 12:11 AM
Holy crap, he's hitting in the .250's in August. Cool.

With more homers, rbi's, a higher slugging percentage, less K's and more walks than Rowand. Rowand makes substantially more than him and it's absurd to argue that Crede's not as clutch.

Mohoney
08-04-2005, 12:29 AM
Another case where the Sox are playing down to their competition.

I don't know, this Toronto team isn't exactly chopped liver. They have been playing better ball as of late.

Tonight we didn't execute the way we have all year. 2 leadoff doubles, and we couldn't knock in either one of them. That doesn't happen very often to us this year.

Lip Man 1
08-04-2005, 12:35 AM
Karno:

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I know you will :smile: ) but hasn't Toronto scored 8 of their 11 runs in this series after two out? (5 run 2nd inning yesterday, 3 run 1st inning today...)

Lip

Mr. White Sox
08-04-2005, 12:51 AM
Funniest part of the night...
at the game, the text message question was: Which Sox hitter would you most want to see in clutch situations?
The answer occured right after PK's awful at-bat:
Konerko 55%
Iguchi 10%
ehhhhhhhhhhhhh........

This stat is somewhat disconcerting...
In this split on mlb.com (Late innings of Close Games)...
Jermaine Dye .098/.140/.244 (41AB)
Joe Crede .233/.267/.279 (43AB)
And, the stat is awesome when you look at:
Tadahito Iguchi .351/.385/.568 (37AB)
Yes, this is a weird stat with a small sample size, but it's still somewhat interesting.

Something that is somewhat nice to see is PK has GIDP 7 times this year; last year and in 2003 he GIDP 23 and 28 times, respectively.

Well, that was a pointless post. :(:

Mohoney
08-04-2005, 12:51 AM
This wasn't a big game.

Exactly. It was only big to the Blue Jays, who need to take a few series like this to try and get back in the thick of things in the AL East.

In August, we play a lot of games that will be treated as make or break by a lot of teams. In addition to 1 more game against the Jays, we have 3 in Boston, 6 against New York, 6 against Minnesota, and 4 in Texas. These teams aren't going to be playing as many reserves against us as we play against them, they're going to push their starters harder, and they're going to use their 5th and 6th bullpen pitchers less in an effort to win every game they can against us.

That's why we need to fatten up in the 6 games against Seattle, a team that's basically Ichiro and a bunch of prospects.

shoota
08-04-2005, 04:02 AM
With more homers, rbi's, a higher slugging percentage, less K's and more walks than Rowand. Rowand makes substantially more than him and it's absurd to argue that Crede's not as clutch.

You do not want to try to make Joe Crede look good by comparing him to Aaron Rowand. Rowand is a better baseball player than Crede and has much better facial hair. Rowand is a man; Crede is a lamb.

Rowand has the most hits on the team, more doubles, triples, stolen bases, higher OBP and batting average than Crede. And despite trailing the all-or-nothing, refuse-to-play-smartball Crede in home runs, Rowand does have more total bases than Crede.

Rowand is the better baserunner and clutch hitter.

Rowand's not the one throwing games to the Red Sox. Rowand's not the one poping up his bunts and turning them into double plays. Rowand's not the one with a swing that's timed by sundial.

Crede does not have more walks than Rowand; they are both tied with 19. Technically, my scorebook shows that Rowand has one more walk than Crede because one of Crede's walks came after taking one pitch when he pinch hit for an injured Juan Uribe. Uribe had a 3-0 count at the time he had to leave the game. Of course Crede would be taking one pitch. With your signature, you should have already known that.

Mr. White Sox
08-04-2005, 04:54 AM
That's why we need to fatten up in the 6 games against Seattle, a team that's basically Ichiro and a bunch of prospects.

Ehhhhh...
let's look at some of their lineup, including Ichiro:

Ichiro (Career Vs. White Sox): .368/.398/.484 7 SB 1 CS in 155 AB :o:
Richie Sexson (Career Vs. White Sox): .316/.389/.663 with 9 HR in 95 AB :o:
Raul Ibanez (Career Vs. White Sox): .271/.311/.433 (.298/.365/.464 total this year)
Willie Bloomquist(?) (Career Vs. White Sox): .345/.387/.414 4 SB in 29 AB
Adrian Beltre (not enough AB Vs. White Sox): Scary hitter. I don't care what kind of season he's having (it's actually not that horrible, just horrible compared to last year); he's a scary hitter.

That's a pretty scary top-5 of the order, considering their careers v. the Sox and their seasons in general. Combine that with the pitching matchups:
Pineiro (1-3, 4.64 v. Sox) vs. Garcia (1-1, 5.27 v. Mariners)
Moyer (5-8, 4.51 v. Sox) vs. Buehrle (5-3, 3.14 v. Mariners)
Jorge Campillo = AAA pitcher vs. Garland (5-1, 2.66 v. Mariners)
Jeff Harris = AAA pitcher
Felix Hernandez = AAA pitcher
Any of these three could start in the final game, although Hernandez probably will not.
Thankfully, Franklin won't be starting; he's good vs. the Sox (6-4, 3.43)
Looking at these matchups, if Freddy (oooh, fun game) and Mark have good games against these hitters, the Sox win (the Sox can give up 4 runs and probably win those two)...the matchup against the AAA pitcher is a crapshoot, as it always is when it's AAA v. Sox. I just wouldn't count out the Mariners; they're a revamped (although still sucky) team that could bop out many HR at the Cell.

wassagstdu
08-04-2005, 06:58 AM
That's the truth, this will be the third series we've lost since the all star break. Thank God we had the Orioles to pump up our record, but this team needs to wake up come stretch time.

Podsednik is hurting, and as Podsednik goes, so goes this team. (Which is not to say that the same is not also true of Iguchi, AJ, Rowand, ... -- not that they are hurting but that this team needs all of its cylinders, especially at the top of the order.)

downstairs
08-04-2005, 08:55 AM
The amazing thing is that our road record since the beginning of June is 18-5. The only series loss was at KC of all places.

We lost a series in Oakland in that time as well....

infohawk
08-04-2005, 09:06 AM
Crede's pop-up in the 8th made me sick.

Not to totally absolve Joe, who pops up frequently, but that pitcher was pretty tough on righties. It did look like Joe was kind of feeling for that ball. He looked really disgusted right after he hit it.

Dan H
08-04-2005, 09:24 AM
Nice to see Crede and Podsednik waste nine at-bats tonight.

Crede's pop-up in the 8th made me sick.

Oh well.

I agree with the Crede thing. That was one of the worst at-bats for him this season. I rather would have seen him take a third strike than to lunge at a ball two feet out of the zone. No execution when it mattered. They are making Toronto look like a contender.

infohawk
08-04-2005, 09:28 AM
Very bad trend I'm seeing here. How many LOB tonight? I lost track after the fifth...

Nine.

infohawk
08-04-2005, 09:37 AM
Did you catch any of the Twins-Sox series the last couple of September's? We are 3-9 in our last 12 at home while averaging over 30,000 in that stretch. I get a kick out of people who ignore reality.

My initial theory is that the Sox don't win as much when there is really good attendance because attendance is usually higher when they are playing a more competitive team that the fans believe will be a good match-up. This can probably be checked. I don't believe that big crowds somehow put a mysterious hex on the Sox.

Brian26
08-04-2005, 09:44 AM
The underlying feeling after last night's game for me, especially after reflecting on it this morning, is how good Bautista looked against us. Too bad we weren't able to pick him up.

infohawk
08-04-2005, 09:49 AM
He brought the team back within striking distance. Your original post did not specify "late innings". He helped give the Sox a chance to tie, to play one-run baseball at home. That is important. Sox just couldn't get one more. I can't see focusing on him for this loss when he got 2 of our 3 RBIs, that's all.

With regard to scoring, we also can't just hypothetically add a run or two to the final total on the premise that one or both of the lead-off doubles should have scored. Had one of them scored because of a hit, PK may not have been up with Tadahito on base to hit the 2-run homer during the particular situation when it occured. It's kind of like the movie, "the Butterfly Effect."

To me, the big moment for the Sox offense came in the eighth inning when the Sox had a runner of first, nobody out and a 3-1 count on Dye. Had Dye walked, Aaron would have had the chance to bunt them over. The Sox could have had runners on second and third with one out and a one-run deficit. Instead, the pitcher bristled up and made a couple of really good pitches on Jermaine. End of threat.

ChicagoHoosier
08-04-2005, 10:07 AM
You can never blame an umps missed call (or referee in other sports) if you have over 3/4 of the game left to make up for it. We could have overcome the bad call by the 4th inning if we had just done what we've done all year. Tonight was a simple example of not being the team we've come to expect. I think Hawk may have mentioned it, but we've gotten spoiled with this team leading the league in getting RISP home. We had an off night, but what I continue to enjoy on this message board are those that bring home the positives. El Duque did look awfully good other than 1/3 of the first inning.

Man, I hate two out runs when it's not us putting the hurt on.

Hawk has been bitter lately. Need a few W's with no controversy to calm him down.

Let's avoid the sweep today!

Sxy Mofo
08-04-2005, 10:11 AM
[glass is entirely too full - someone slap mofo rant]


I have this fear that the sox are going to get into the post-season and resort to their old ways of station to station home run or bust...

The more games they play like this where they see that the old way doesn't work, the less likely they are to resort back to this style of play when the pressure is really on.


[/glass is entirely too full - someone slap mofo rant]

LVSoxFan
08-04-2005, 10:22 AM
For what it's worth, here's my two cents having suffered through these last two games and unfortunately attended the ones in KC:

1. What happened to small ball? Our whole team was built around that but we've been the 2004 Sox for the last two weeks, slamming home runs but no bunts, steals, what have you.

2. All year we have been stranding men on base, but this has become ridiculous. Last night was just absolutely painful. 2nd and 3rd, 1st and 2nd, bases loaded, and nobody gets in.

3. I remember somebody's comment earlier in the season that the offense scores early in the game, then goes on a coffee break. Hello, Toronto series!

4. The pop-ups are getting absurd. Can we not hit breaking ball pitchers?

5. I'm not about to panic yet, but in the end I think we've lost the small ball attitude as guys fall in love with their power--Dye, Konerko, Crede, etc. And when you go with power you basically get the choice of homer or pop-up. That's not what one us the first half of the season.

El Duque had a horrible first inning but settled down. I don't blame him. The bullpen's been great too.

The home runs are fun, but I would trade them all for a single with RISP.

CHISOXFAN13
08-04-2005, 10:48 AM
Did you catch any of the Twins-Sox series the last couple of September's? We are 3-9 in our last 12 at home while averaging over 30,000 in that stretch. I get a kick out of people who ignore reality.

How do you explain kicking Baltimore's ass in front of big crowds all weekend?

Fungo
08-04-2005, 12:14 PM
That's a pretty scary top-5 of the order, considering their careers v. the Sox and their seasons in general. Combine that with the pitching matchups:
Pineiro (1-3, 4.64 v. Sox) vs. Garcia (1-1, 5.27 v. Mariners)
Moyer (5-8, 4.51 v. Sox) vs. Buehrle (5-3, 3.14 v. Mariners)
Jorge Campillo = AAA pitcher vs. Garland (5-1, 2.66 v. Mariners)
Jeff Harris = AAA pitcher
Felix Hernandez = AAA pitcher
Any of these three could start in the final game, although Hernandez probably will not.
Thankfully, Franklin won't be starting; he's good vs. the Sox (6-4, 3.43)
Looking at these matchups, if Freddy (oooh, fun game) and Mark have good games against these hitters, the Sox win (the Sox can give up 4 runs and probably win those two)...the matchup against the AAA pitcher is a crapshoot, as it always is when it's AAA v. Sox. I just wouldn't count out the Mariners; they're a revamped (although still sucky) team that could bop out many HR at the Cell.
Hernandez has been called a can't miss ace by several scouts, not your ordinary AAA pitcher. Probably one of the most highly touted pitching prospects ever. Seattle won't even let him throw his nastiest pitch, his slider, because of the wicked arm action.

TaylorStSox
08-04-2005, 12:28 PM
You do not want to try to make Joe Crede look good by comparing him to Aaron Rowand. Rowand is a better baseball player than Crede and has much better facial hair. Rowand is a man; Crede is a lamb.

Rowand has the most hits on the team, more doubles, triples, stolen bases, higher OBP and batting average than Crede. And despite trailing the all-or-nothing, refuse-to-play-smartball Crede in home runs, Rowand does have more total bases than Crede.

Rowand is the better baserunner and clutch hitter.

Rowand's not the one throwing games to the Red Sox. Rowand's not the one poping up his bunts and turning them into double plays. Rowand's not the one with a swing that's timed by sundial.

Crede does not have more walks than Rowand; they are both tied with 19. Technically, my scorebook shows that Rowand has one more walk than Crede because one of Crede's walks came after taking one pitch when he pinch hit for an injured Juan Uribe. Uribe had a 3-0 count at the time he had to leave the game. Of course Crede would be taking one pitch. With your signature, you should have already known that.

The only attributes Rowand has over Crede are his speed and ability to take the ball the other way. Despite the speed and ability to hit the gaps, he has 3 more doubles. OMG, he has 1 more triple. He has 20 more hits but has K'd 30 more times. Rowand's not getting it done. That .398 slugging percentage is unacceptable. We already have a singles hitting speedster in the outfield. It's not like Rowand steals enough to forget that he can't drive the ball anymore.

Crede has more RBI's and HR's from the 8th hole.

Rowand's not the cause of our problems but his lack of production can't be ignored. I'm ready for the Brian Anderson era to begin. If he plays poorly, he can match Rowand's numbers sans hits. Plus, he'll be alot cheaper and play as good or better D.

Rowand's looking more and more like the player we thought he'd be. He's a 4th OF with some pop and some speed. It's too bad he's not LH.

Lip Man 1
08-04-2005, 12:30 PM
Chifan13:

The Baltimore games were in Baltimore, I think Lemon's point was that they haven't been playing well at home 16-15 since June 1st.

Lip

TaylorStSox
08-04-2005, 01:24 PM
I need to criticize Aaron more. :redneck:bandance: