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Iwritecode
11-26-2001, 02:13 PM
Sorry to get away from the norm here and talk about baseball but I got bored and decided to write this down. I've come to the conclusion that we have too many outfielders. Either Liefer, Simmons, Singleton, Rowand or Lee are going to be left out somehow (traded or sent to the minors). Maybe more than one of them. We also have a lot of pitching but you can really never have to much pitching.

I also made a few assumptions while writing this:

1. There will be baseball next year.
2. They Sox will go with the players they have on the 40-man roster right now.
3. They will go with 12 pitchers.

That being said, here is how I see it:

Pitchers: (of course deciding the starting 5 may be a little tougher)
Burly
Garland
Glover
Parque
Rauch (or possibly one of the other young guys like Wright, Ginter, Fogg...)
Kip
Barcelo
Osuna
Lowe
Wunch
Howry
Foulke

1B Konerko
2B Durham
3B Crede
SS Valentin/Clayton
C Alomar/MJ
RF Maggs
CF Rowand/Singleton
LF Lee
DH Thomas
Bench Graffinino

Remaining:
Liefer
Simmons
Paul
Wright
Fogg
Biddle
Ginter
Almonte
Guerrier
Kane
Kohlmeier
Masaoka
Wylie
Olivio
Dellaero

So, anyone think I'm close? Would you do anything different?

Spiff
11-26-2001, 02:29 PM
I think your pretty much on.

But if I ruled the world I'd lose Osuna and Howry for Fogg and Wright.

cheeses_h_rice
11-26-2001, 02:41 PM
I don't think there's any way they're going to start the season with Rauch. He still needs seasoning, especially considering how little he got to pitch last year and the fact that he had surgery. I would say Biddle would get the spot in his place, or Wright.

I also think Tony G. may not have a place any more on this team; you'd see Jose V. at 2B or SS before you'd see the Rat, I think.

Other pitchers I see as being on the hump are Lorenzo B., Antonio O., and Jimmy P. Mr. Parque needs to re-earn his spot in the rotation, IMHO.

LongDistanceFan
11-26-2001, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
I don't think there's any way they're going to start the season with Rauch. He still needs seasoning, especially considering how little he got to pitch last year and the fact that he had surgery. I would say Biddle would get the spot in his place, or Wright.

I also think Tony G. may not have a place any more on this team; you'd see Jose V. at 2B or SS before you'd see the Rat, I think.

Other pitchers I see as being on the hump are Lorenzo B., Antonio O., and Jimmy P. Mr. Parque needs to re-earn his spot in the rotation, IMHO. i hate to say this, but we may never see the potential of lorenzo b, he may never get back..... its a shame, i been waiting to see him for sooo long, but injuries kept on getting in the way.

guillen4life13
11-26-2001, 04:09 PM
rite now i'm afraid about the wunsch situation. he was the most effective relief pitcher 4 the team in 2000

Jerry_Manuel
11-26-2001, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
Sorry to get away from the norm here and talk about baseball
3B Crede


You got some nerve coming here and trying to talk baseball Code :D:

I'm not positive he is going to get the job. But just remember that Liefer can play third. Not saying he is going to start over Crede, just saying we know how Jerry likes guys who can play two positions.

Jerry_Manuel
11-26-2001, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
I also think Tony G. may not have a place any more on this team; you'd see Jose V. at 2B or SS before you'd see the Rat, I think.

Other pitchers I see as being on the hump are Lorenzo B., Antonio O., and Jimmy P. Mr. Parque needs to re-earn his spot in the rotation, IMHO.

If Clayton is still on the team, Tony might be gone. Manuel has said that going into spring training Parque will be in the starting five. That could change but for now that is the case.

longshot7
11-26-2001, 04:28 PM
did I miss something? Isn't Brian Simmons with the Blue Jays?

Jerry_Manuel
11-26-2001, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by longshot7
did I miss something? Isn't Brian Simmons with the Blue Jays?


Nope, Sox got him off waivers.

Here is the story (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/Headlines/November/1120.htm)

Daver
11-26-2001, 04:38 PM
I still contend that Biddle will be in the starting rotation.

But then again what the hell do I know?

Jerry_Manuel
11-26-2001, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by daver
I still contend that Biddle will be in the starting rotation.


If he has a good spring then I agree he will.

dougs78
11-26-2001, 05:41 PM
Couple things I see differently...

1. Pitchers: Of Rauch, Barcelo, Wunsch and Osuna all coming off surgery, you can almost be assured that at least 2 of them won't be ready right away. My bet is Barcelo and Osuna are ready the others not yet. that means we get to add two pitchers, I take Biddle (if he's healthy and Wright if he's not) and Fogg.

2. Position players: I would guarantee you see Liefer on the roster, so that means that Graffy is gone.

Also, you don't pick up 28 year old OF'ers to play AAA, so that means Simmons is on the roster, but that leads us directly into trades, which violates your second assumption. So, with those assumptions you are correct; No Simmons.

Paulwny
11-26-2001, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


we know how Jerry likes guys who can play two positions.

From the Manuel manual-- Everyone plays everywhere.

duke of dorwood
11-26-2001, 09:06 PM
No way do I want Parque in the rotation unless he gets to 90 mph on the fastball. Howry is signed and not coming off an injury. Very tradeable. I dont think he will be on the 25. I fear we are stuck with Osuna.

GASHWOUND
11-26-2001, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


You got some nerve coming here and trying to talk baseball Code :D:

That made me chuckle. :smile:

GASHWOUND
11-26-2001, 09:48 PM
Originally posted by Wh1teSox00
I think your pretty much on.

But if I ruled the world I'd lose Osuna and Howry for Fogg and Wright.

You're thinking pretty low for a person who's ruling the world. If I ruled the world none of those pitchers would be on the team. First I would send reinsy packing, than aquire all the best players in baseball to play for the Sox or else. Hey, I'm the ruler of the world, I could do what ever I want. Right? :smile:

GASHWOUND
11-26-2001, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


If he has a good spring then I agree he will.

I doubt he'll have a good springtraining, but I don't think we have a chose.

Jerry_Manuel
11-26-2001, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by GASHWOUND
I doubt he'll have a good springtraining, but I don't think we have a chose.


We shall see.

GASHWOUND
11-26-2001, 10:05 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
I don't think there's any way they're going to start the season with Rauch. He still needs seasoning, especially considering how little he got to pitch last year and the fact that he had surgery. I would say Biddle would get the spot in his place, or Wright.

I also think Tony G. may not have a place any more on this team; you'd see Jose V. at 2B or SS before you'd see the Rat, I think.

Other pitchers I see as being on the hump are Lorenzo B., Antonio O., and Jimmy P. Mr. Parque needs to re-earn his spot in the rotation, IMHO.

I agree, Rauch won't be starting the season with us. I'm almost certain. That injury hampered his chances and will still need to get out all the kinks in the minors.
But I doubt osuna is on any hump. I'm prett sure he'll make the team struggles and all. Barcelo will likely make it, but that could be the one who is sent down in favor of Fogg. Barcelo is gonna work his ass off to prove he is worth keeping. We are counting on parque to be on this team, either as our "veteran" starter or a goto long reliever in the pen or a leftt out of the pen. So he's on the club.

kermittheefrog
11-27-2001, 12:21 AM
My bet is we won't have Rauch or Barcelo. Kenny told the Sun-Times it's possible that Rauch won't be ready for spring training and he's recovering slowly. Barcelo is just always hurt and isn't someone to rely on. I bet our pen will be something like this:

Foulke
Howry
Osuna
Wunsch
Masoaka
Lowe
Fogg

With Buehrle, Garland, Glover, Kipper and Parque in the rotation. That's unless Klown Williams drags in a warm veteran body then Kip or Butter gets booted to the pen to replace Fogg or Masoaka.

On the other side of the ball I see Brian Simmons as the new Chris Singleton because the Sox won't pay Singleton arbitration money and sure as hell shouldn't. Rowand will probably start the year in center with the same corners. Crede will be at third, Jose back at short where he belongs and MJ behind the plate instead of old cranky knees. I see the bench as Simmons, Liefer, Graffanino and Old Cranky Knees.

longshot7
11-27-2001, 01:57 AM
I really don't see Kip in the rotation. Maybe if the season started tomorrow, but I think ol' Kenny has a few tricks up his sleeve.

rotation
Boomer
FA/trade
Buehrle
Garland
Glover

(at least I hope so. If we start with any more of those kids in there like you all think, we are going to suck hard.)

pen
Foulke
Howry
Osuna
Lowe
Kip
Wunsch
Parque

but I could be talking out of my ***. We shall see.

kermittheefrog
11-27-2001, 02:12 AM
Originally posted by longshot7
I really don't see Kip in the rotation. Maybe if the season started tomorrow, but I think ol' Kenny has a few tricks up his sleeve.

rotation
Boomer
FA/trade
Buehrle
Garland
Glover

(at least I hope so. If we start with any more of those kids in there like you all think, we are going to suck hard.)

pen
Foulke
Howry
Osuna
Lowe
Kip
Wunsch
Parque

but I could be talking out of my ***. We shall see.

You'd really rather have the fat, old and injured Wells?

longshot7
11-27-2001, 02:32 AM
Truthfully, yes. He's got something to prove, can be had for not much money, veteran presence and leadership, 2nd pitching coach, etc.

Guy with perfect game and a ring vs. another inexperience young pup. Is it even a question?

kermittheefrog
11-27-2001, 03:02 AM
Originally posted by longshot7
Truthfully, yes. He's got something to prove, can be had for not much money, veteran presence and leadership, 2nd pitching coach, etc.

Guy with perfect game and a ring vs. another inexperience young pup. Is it even a question?

By that logic why don't we go out and get Kenny Rogers? He only had a 6.19 ERA.

longshot7
11-28-2001, 12:29 AM
Ouch. Boomer won 20 games the season before last. Surely you can't put him in in the same category as Kenny Rogers.

All I'm saying is this "The Kids Can Play" crap has got to end. The future is now. No more "We'll be better down the road" - I want to be better now - we just gotta make some moves, not sit on our prospects.

kermittheefrog
11-28-2001, 12:52 AM
Originally posted by longshot7
Ouch. Boomer won 20 games the season before last. Surely you can't put him in in the same category as Kenny Rogers.

All I'm saying is this "The Kids Can Play" crap has got to end. The future is now. No more "We'll be better down the road" - I want to be better now - we just gotta make some moves, not sit on our prospects.

Hey they both went 5-7 last year :smile:

Okay, Boomer is better than Kenny but we're still talking about a guy who's going to be 39 and barely threw 100 mediocre innings last year. Wouldn't you rather go in another direction? If I had to take Kip or XL Wells for next year I'd take Kip w/o hesitation.

longshot7
11-28-2001, 06:38 PM
And I guess we'd both take a proven starter, but what's the chance of that happening.....

I'd take Boomer over Kip. Agree to disagree?

doublem23
11-28-2001, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by longshot7
I'd take Boomer over Kip. Agree to disagree?

I'd love to see Boomer back. Considering the Sox can't dump The Choice until next year, and Joe Borchard is still a year away, it seems more and more likely that the Sox are secretly flushing 2002 down the turlet.

So why not bring back Boomer? If we're not looking like we're gonna be competitors next year, we might as well bring in someone to be a mentor to guys like Garland, Kipper, etc. etc. We all saw what happened to Buehrle after Wells helped him out.

:nardi
Considering he's our pitching coach, any outside influence would be very welcome, IMO.

kermittheefrog
11-28-2001, 08:01 PM
Originally posted by doublem23


I'd love to see Boomer back. Considering the Sox can't dump The Choice until next year, and Joe Borchard is still a year away, it seems more and more likely that the Sox are secretly flushing 2002 down the turlet.

So why not bring back Boomer? If we're not looking like we're gonna be competitors next year, we might as well bring in someone to be a mentor to guys like Garland, Kipper, etc. etc. We all saw what happened to Buehrle after Wells helped him out.

:nardi
Considering he's our pitching coach, any outside influence would be very welcome, IMO.

We are so competitors next season. We get Thomas back, Tribe lost Gonzalez. We shouldn't be appreciably weaker at any position next year and I think our starting pitching will be better with age. Meanwhile Cleveland is still relying on Dave Burba and Chuck Finley.

PaleHoseGeorge
11-28-2001, 08:04 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
We are so competitors next season. We get Thomas back, Tribe lost Gonzalez. We shouldn't be appreciably weaker at any position next year and I think our starting pitching will be better with age. Meanwhile Cleveland is still relying on Dave Burba and Chuck Finley.

A prescription for another three-and-out performance in the ALDS, right Kermie?

I'm so desperate, I'll take it. :(:

Daver
11-28-2001, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge


A prescription for another three-and-out performance in the ALDS, right Kermie?

I'm so desperate, I'll take it. :(:

Assuming there will be baseball next year,I think the Sox are better armed than any other team in the division.The Sox have what no other team in the division has,pitching,granted it may be young and unproven,but they have more of it than any other team in the league has.


But then again what the hell do I know?

longshot7
11-29-2001, 01:43 AM
with this batch of youngsters in the rotation, we could have a repeat of the 99 season. Boy won't that be fun to watch?

Sure you can sit back and say "Isn't it easy to play GM?" and you know what, you're right. It is easy to say I think they need to get two veteran pitchers (one being Boomer) if they hope to do anything next year. But will they? Highly unlikely.

I refuse to be super optimistic about our chances if we start next season with the same rotation we ended the last one with. It's that simple.

Buehrle/Garland/Parque/Wright/Glover (or insert whoever)
vs.
Colon/Finley/Sabathia/Burba/someone else
vs.
Radke/Milton/Mays/Reed/Joe Momma

and you like our chances? We may challenge the Injuns, but we can't hold a candle to the Twins. It's that simple.
Look at us. Maybe in a two years... but next?
Sad to say, but growing pains suck.

Spiff
11-29-2001, 05:31 AM
Originally posted by longshot7
with this batch of youngsters in the rotation, we could have a repeat of the 99 season. Boy won't that be fun to watch?

Sure you can sit back and say "Isn't it easy to play GM?" and you know what, you're right. It is easy to say I think they need to get two veteran pitchers (one being Boomer) if they hope to do anything next year. But will they? Highly unlikely.

I refuse to be super optimistic about our chances if we start next season with the same rotation we ended the last one with. It's that simple.

Buehrle/Garland/Parque/Wright/Glover (or insert whoever)
vs.
Colon/Finley/Sabathia/Burba/someone else
vs.
Radke/Milton/Mays/Reed/Joe Momma

and you like our chances? We may challenge the Injuns, but we can't hold a candle to the Twins. It's that simple.
Look at us. Maybe in a two years... but next?
Sad to say, but growing pains suck.

Burba's a free agent if that matters which it probably doesn't.

And Reed to I think but I'm not sure.

longshot7
11-29-2001, 04:13 PM
the Tribe wants to bring back Burba at a reduced price, but you're right - he's a free agent. As for Reed, he's under contract, but has exercised his right to ask for a trade. Where or when he'll be accomodated remains to be seen. Even with these losses, I don't see our rotation as better than the Twins - maybe about the same as Cleveland.